Haw! Haw! Haw! You're exactly right! At 16:10 when I raise my scope and realize that most of the ship is beyond the firing point I quickly point the periscope at the 350 bearing and squeeze off torpedo #6. But I haven't told the TDC what bearing the scope is pointed to yet! Blown shot. THEN I switched to another bearing ahead of the target, sent that bearing to the TDC and shot the other five. I had forgotten that I panicked and shot that first torpedo without targeting it at all. Good catch!!!
Read the Bravest Man. I read that book over a decade ago in while in the Navy. it claims that Dick Okane pioneered a shoot from the hip approach like this where instead of determing the parameters you set up the shot at 90 degrees and waited for them to reach a specific bearing and then firing so totally accurate. In the sweltering heat of the south pacific in a non air conditioned tin can this was simpler than fumbling around with the fancy targetting system.
That's absolutely true. If you have a shotgun and want to shoot a duck, there are two ways to get the job done. You can swing the rifle so it always points at a certain lead angle in front of the duck, and then you can pull the trigger any time during the swing. That is analogous to using the position keeper. The second way is to aim at a certain spot and wait until the duck gets to the correct lead angle and then pull the trigger. This is what Dick O'Kane did and what I teach. You keep your aim on a constant bearing and wait for the target to reach the firing position. By eliminating the position keeper programming you eliminate error, making any errors you *do* make easier to analyze afterwords. It also allows you to set up your attack half an hour before you shoot and leave yourself only the task of maneuvering your sub to the firing position. It takes all the time pressure off the attack.
I sorta can't believe this doesnt have more comments. Maybe cuz it was so long? Either way, this is by far the most informative video on the subject on youtube, Gratz and thanks.
Awesome, thanks for the video! If anyone cares, or is wondering, the higher risk of getting a dud torpedo if it hit at 90 degrees was because the firing pin would buckle.
At 16:55 you can see the sonar plot of all four torpedoes in the water, with torpedo #1 hitting just aft of our aiming point. You can see five torpedoes in the water (that's all I shot). It's the last torpedo which was the only one to miss as you can see by the sonar plot at 17:19. The important thing is that a blown attack can still work, even without updating to the new angles on the bow.
Well, at 16:53 there's definitely a torpedo, well past the target on the 0 degree line. Dunno where it came from! I'd embed a screenshot but youtube won't let me put in a URL in a comment. It's still a great video and of course your point stands, thanks for making this. It's been really useful.
Thank you for this video. First time I tried it, all torpedoes went well behind target. Watched the video again, and I discoverd the double-clicks necessary. Result: three wasted torpedoes, and I was happy as hell. Why? All four torpedoes hit just where I aimed them: 1.bow, 2.beneath bridge, 3.midship, 4.stern. Unfortunately/Fortunately, after the first hit, it reported "target destroyed". So those last three hits were overkill and wasted. Thank you...THANK YOU...THANK YOU for helping to end my frustration with targeting. I've been away from this game for about five years, so this helped a lot. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the concept that range doesn't matter.
+777scubadiver Great to see you're successful with the Dick O'Kane technique. The double clicking on the buttons is necessary with ALL targeting methods with Silent Hunter 4 and for ten years I've been the only one saying and demonstrating that is necessary. Just think of all the wasted torpedoes as a result! The idea should have gone viral throughout the SH4 community as soon as I discovered it.
it is trig. you are facing 90 degrees to his track. the hypotenous is your line of sight. For a given bearing (345 in this case) as you move the track in or out both the distance of you and the distance of the target from the impact point increases...and the ratio is always the same...its the tan of the bearing angle. so if the track is further away the torpedo takes more time to get there but so does the target.
If you look at exactly 16:53 in the video, you can see your first shot actually missed as well: you can see the torpedo went at 0 degrees. So that's 4 hits and two misses, still not bad!
Hello, this is a long shot but thought I may try, you never know. There is a function or two mentioned in the manual about the compass tool on the nav map. Apparently you can draw a circle with radius shown and attach that to a target? It would then follow the target as the target moves, have you seen this? Do you know how to do it? Also, when you use the marker to "Mark 1" etc.. you can change the term to anything you want with a maximum of 18 characters, do you know how to do this? Thanks Simon
Not bad. I prefer SH5 and its more realistic tactical environment. What if there is fog and you cannot see your target? What about at night? I can use tactics going back to the 1930's, using only passive sonar, no TDC, no crew assist, and no use of mini map to sink a ship from 3km away. It does take practice, but with knowledge of tactics and a little trigonometry, it's not so hard. Thanks for the video. Nice job.
How do you want to change the units. For targeting purposes the 2000 yards to the nautical mile crutch is good enough not to miss any targets. So .6 times 2000 is 1200 yards. You, and the original real submariners, can do that in your head.
@@RockinRobbins13 Hi and many thanks for your reply. I just wondered why your video at 1:55 showed 1200, which you directly equated to 12 knots, whereas my SH4 was giving my nautical mile units, i.e. 0.6nm when I performed the same action. I do not have any mods added to SH4. Many thanks for the calculation tip, that makes it easy to convert nm to kn.
I do all my videos in real time, no cuts, events as they happen. It does make the videos longer, but it also shows you EXACTLY what to expect with no hocus-pocus. I hate tutorial videos that make extravagant claims and then don't provide you enough information to duplicate what they claim to have done. You Tube is polluted with them!
Hi! Thanks for the video! I have A HUGE PROBLEM with torpedoes upgrade. At the base, torpedoes section, I have only mark 10 and 14. The other types of torpedo just disappeared. I know it's a bug. How to solve?
Hi RockinRobbins13 have you thought about doing these videos again? I really enjoyed learning about your tacticts that you gained from the whole dickokane method of attack
If you ever do make a lets play or are willing to do a multiplayer lets play campgain or something let me know through a private message I wouldn't mind joining you and leanring again.
Hey Rockin quick question for you in the newer version of the game is there no plastic triangle (hairline) now. Do you just put the distance to max (11000) since there is no plastic triangle now. I think I just figured out why I have been missing as writing this. I forgot to subtract the lead AOB time to try again and see if that changes it.
Why don't I get the white triangle on red background and the white circle on black background on that dial in the top right corner? Been watching these tutorials for help with this game. Those buttons on that dial seem to be really important??!! Why can't I see them. This version of the game is so much more complicated than SH3! Help!
Thanx for video,i calculate Manual Targeting in Silent Hunter 3 but im always fail in Sh 4,i wanna Metric Nomograph and 360 degrees centered Compass,where i find ? i see the video in Map Zoom..Sorry my English Thanx..
Why can't I use the manual Targeting via the TDC? I don't see anything on the top to click on. Tried both German and American subs. Also, what is a "Fleet" boat?
how did you came to the conclusion shooting at 345 degrees ? isn't the target speed needed for getting this bearing ? Also , who told you that range isn't needed even for 0 gyro shots ?
Welcome to the channel! The Dick O'Kane uses a rule of thumb for shooting at a target. If the speed is 10 knots or under we lead by 10 degrees. If the target is coming from left to right we would set our aim bearing at 350. If it's faster we lead by 15 degrees, aiming up the 345 bearing. Now the Dick O'Kane method doesnt give zero gyro shots, it gives shots that are close enough to zero that range doesn't matter. Since you are arbitrarily picking a shoot bearing, the speed entered into the TDC actually sets the gyro angle, which will not be exactly zero. But when the gyro angle is between -20 and +20 degrees, the range is either irrelevant or non-consequential. Basically, since your aiming angle is 345 degrees, the further from you the target is, the earlier you will be firing. In other words, the situation is self correcting. Closer to you means the shot is fired a shorter time before the boom and farther from you the shot is fired a longer time before the boom, which gives the torpedo the extra time to get there. It's like a slice of pie. Toward the center of the pie, the width of the slice is smaller than it is toward the outside of the pie. Similarly, the Dick O'Kane method, or any method using a zero gyro angle shot is self correcting for range. For more information, graphs and proofs visit the Sub Skippers' Bag of Tricks thread at Subsim.com.
hello RockinRobbins, Still you don't answer to both of my questions so let me rephrase the same questions based on your reply. How is this that you say ''If the speed is 10 knots or under we lead by 10 degrees'' and later you say ''If it's faster we lead by 15 degrees'' came from ? [Assuming that you are using 46knots torpedo (becuase with no 46 knots torpedo these lead angles are way off)]. But even in the case that you are indeed using 46 knots torpedo then for a target moving with 6 knots the lead angle is 7.4° (if speed is 5 kts then lead is 6.2°) so the above statements for rule of thumps are not giving valid outputs . i had a glance at your thread at subsim and the second question still remains.Range to target is in the equation even for 0° gyroangle shots so i am wondering where did you saw it written as you say it ''at zero ,range doesn't matter''
Let's divide your question in half. For the first half you are confusing shoot bearing for lead angle. They aren't the same. And just because we arbitrarily pick a shoot bearing by rule of thumb that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the shot. Take your example with the 6 knot target traveling left to right at 90 degrees from our course. We input 6 knots into the TDC. We set the AoB to 90 minus the 10 degree (starboard) lead on the shoot bearing because that will be the AoB at the moment we will shoot. We aim the periscope up the shoot bearing, drag the range pointer down to about 1500 yards (the game TDC has a cow if the range is zero) and send that range/bearing to the TDC. What the TDC does is pick the lead angle, let's use your value of 7.4 degrees. We're shooting at the 350 bearing so the TDC computes the lead angle of 7.4, adds it to the 350 degree shoot bearing and sends the torpedo up the 357.4 bearing, hitting the target precisely where you aimed. You see YOU don't determine the lead angle, just the shoot bearing. The TDC does the precise calculation so you don't have to and it never makes a calculation mistake. Rule #1 of my techniques: if you must calculate, make it a simple calculation you can do accurately and repeatedly in your head. Every other calculation must go! Second half is easier answered graphically than in math or English. But I can't attach the gif here and I'm going to have to just post a link. And it's better than a thousand word description, illustrating beyond any possible argument that with a zero gyro angle range cancels out of the equation. The only thing that matters is whether the torpedo has the range to get there, and what is the error envelope for torpedo speed and heading. Japanese torpedoes had incredible range and speed but their error envelope guaranteed that shots beyond approximately half their range would almost certainly miss their targets. That's why they were used against formations of ships instead of against single ships at long range. But here's the graph image.ibb.co/eN1WU5/OKanemethodanimation.gif. Let me know if it's in any way unclear.
its trig. the tan of your bearing angle is the targets distance to impact divided by your distance to impact. The Tan stays the same regardless of how long the hypotenous of that triangle is.
Joshua Danley, better read and see the pic i posted at the message above.What you say is true only on the tordedo tube. But the persiscope is some decades meters away and this is making the difference at shooting bearings as range to target differs.
I don't use and recommend that others not use the "100% realism" settings. There's nothing real about them. The real boats had radar ranging, which was MORE accurate than our in-game nav map. Using Trigger Maru Overhauled removes the silhouettes, unit ID, course and speed so you are left with information a bit less accurate than the real boats. They also had a wide range of analysis tools which we do not have. Therefore, as long as you are in a boat with radar, the mapping system as it is does as good a job as we can get to delivering a realistic situation in regard to how much information is available. "100% realism" is not realistic at all, but is really 155% difficulty, which is another thing altogether, similar to a driving simulator if you wore a bag over your head. Yes, it is a great feat to survive such an experience but it has nothing to do with simulation. There's no reality to driving blind. There's no reality to operating a submarine without the info available to real submariners. Just meaningless difficulty.
RockinRobbins13 Understood Thanx for Re-Back but No Map Icons better for me,I Played SH2 SH3 SH4 ( a Little; Cause I Hate US Submarine) now im Play'n SH5 with Sober's mod Excuse my English and Ty for video Good Hunt Capt.Robbins
Why hate the only successful submarine fleet in history? US subs were vastly superior to the U-Boat fleet. Think about this: the very existence of U-Boats guaranteed the defeat of Germany by forcing the entrance of the United States into the war! With no U-boats, Germany could have secured the continent, declared peace with Britain and made it stick. With U-boats they were a sure loser.
***** What you said was utterly incomprehensible. I think you were trying to be funny and possibly disagree with what I said. But you botched the job so badly I can't imagine what your position is. Do you actually believe that the U-boats could sink American ships without the US declaring war on Germany? It would be interesting to hear a theory about how that wouldn't happen. Try again please. Just to be clear, my assertion is that using U-boats in unconditional warfare against Britain was inappropriate because sinking shipping belonging to third party nations could only result in those nations declaring war against Germany. The one nation that German could not afford to be at war with was the US and unconditional U-boat warfare guaranteed that Germany would lose the war when the US came in against them. Therefore, the U-boats, which guaranteed Germany's loss were far inferior to the American submarines, which guaranteed the victory in the Pacific. Your move.
limpack1 Please make logical sense. Your second contention has nothing to do with the first. But we'll begin by tossing your second statement in the trash can where it belongs. American subs had radar. Their radar position was even more accurate than the "enemy's course on a silver, etc" that you think is so cute. It was more accurate because of binning in the digital version. Look that up since you don't understand it. Therefore, they knew the enemy's course and speed with MORE ACCURACY than you can know it in the game, so long as they had radar. By the way, that radar was usable at periscope depth. Checkmate. Now your first statement. Since you did nothing to challenge the logic at all, my contention stands uncontested. Submarines worked for the US because they were an appropriate weapon for the task at hand where the U-boat could not produce victory, and in fact guaranteed German defeat. Next!
RockinRobbins HELP! Hoping you can help out. I follow your instructions to the letter (attempted 7 times) but every time I shoot the torpedoes they angle way off to the left (and once tow the right) by 30 to 40 degrees. So if I am aiming at a 9knt ship passing left to right at 1000yrds I am leading 10degrees. Periscope at 350 degrees, first shot just behind the bow as it passes etc. All of the torps veer off to 315 degrees. (This is with latest TMO version)
Okay, their heading tells the story. When you're setting up your TDC you still have to input speed, 9 kts, then press sent to TDC twice. Then you input AOB, which will be 90 minus your 10 degree lead angle or 80º and then you have to decide whether it's a starboard or port AOB. Set it for the side of the target you're looking at. In this case you're looking at the right or starboard side of your target so your AOB is 80º Starboard. I'll bet you have it set Port. Make sure you push that send to TDC button twice. Lastly, sight your scope up the 350 bearing and hit the send data to TDC button twice. Check your attack map to see the track the torpedoes are going to follow. It should be pretty close to 9º plus or minus a few degrees. Now set up your sub 90 degrees to the target track at your favorite range. Point the scope up the 350 bearing and push fire as the parts of the target you want to hit cross the wire. It sounds like either you're not sending data to the TDC or you're entering port AOB instead of starboard. Let me know how it works out.
@@RockinRobbins13 The only difference that I have from what you stated above and in the video is that the torpedoes are NOT following the track that is shown on the Attack map. I see the angle on the attack map being about 9degrees to the right (starboard) but when I shoot the torpedoes they are traveling to the left (port) at a much steeper angle. So when I shoot, instead of traveling to lead the target they are going the opposite way. It is almost like I am firing the rear torpedoes (I am not)
@@negajoule I have seen that happen when people get mod soup. The solution is a complete reinstall of SH4, then reinstall TMO. I'll bet that fixes it. You must delete the entire SH4 Wolves of the Pacific directory because the SH4 install routine looks to see if the file exists and if it does, it doesn't replace it. So uninstall, delete the game directory, reinstall, new TMO and you're ready to try again.
+Canadian Gold ... Haha... could be. But it's certainly not, for Klaus Doldinger is the artist. It's part of the OST of _'Das Boot'_ and this particular track is called _'Erinnerung'_ (Memory). #6 in the OST soundtrack list.
Klaus Doldinger's _'Das Boot'_ OST ua-cam.com/video/Qxx_heoUO-U/v-deo.htmlm9s , track title _'Erinnerung'_ Comes/ came with the mod _'Das Boot music'_ .
I just double-checked. The audio is low (I've learned handle it much better since then) but the words are very clear and understandable. Check out your sound system. I had the treble speakers disconnected from my subwoofer once and what I was hearing was exactly what you describe: muffled and very indistinct. I plugged the other five speakers in and suddenly I could understand the words. Hope that helps.
There are tutorials on how to shoot torpedoes but they're not the greatest. Your best source for information on the game is the Subsim.com website. We're always happy to help people out. I have a thread on there called Sub Skippers' Bag of Tricks, which isn't so much about how to operate the geme, but about submarine strategy and tactics. Go to Subim and you'll find everything you need.
so, what about using the radar (as shown here) ua-cam.com/video/J6kq4simwI0/v-deo.html To get the ships range, speed and direction, to make a precise shot without using the map icons?.
Sebastian Ja In real life that's what they did. Our radar screen, however isn't good enough for us to gleen accurate information off of, as they did. Therefore we use the combat map to simulate the quality of information and plot that they were able to develop. Isn't perfect but it's the best we're going to get.
Some mods improve the radar and other instruments of the Sub to help you get it right. I havent played this game in a long time, but I remember that after some practice I was able to achieve that.
you say range does not matter ?? without range you cannot do the calcalation to get the speed of the target, this is not a manual target solution, your marker on the map at the very beginning is giving you the range which the software has given to you Dick okane could not use this method has without range you cannot get speed, also you did not have to take your six knots into consideration. This would fail in real world,you can do true manual targeting in silent hunter but not like this. Also submarine radar of this time period was on a too long wavelength to give you accurate enough range data to use in a targeting solution.
UNDERPANTS _ Why do you make a statement without understanding the video? The very first thing I do, half an hour before I shoot, is use radar and the 3 minute rule to calculate target speed without caring about his range. Please refrain from writing letters to your girl during class. If you are killed because of your inattention it won't matter what sweet nothings you send. Not only could this be done in World War II, it was Dick O'Kane's preferred method. Radar was by far the most accurate measuring device they had. I've taught taught hundreds of people manual targeting in Silent Hunter and had many conversations with real submariners who endorse my Dick O'Kane method as perfectly workable in a real sub.
![Silent Hunter III [GWX] - Manual Torpedo Solution and Plotting - Using the Hydrophones](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-fT3s-Qaiig/mqdefault.jpg)
Haw! Haw! Haw! You're exactly right! At 16:10 when I raise my scope and realize that most of the ship is beyond the firing point I quickly point the periscope at the 350 bearing and squeeze off torpedo #6. But I haven't told the TDC what bearing the scope is pointed to yet! Blown shot. THEN I switched to another bearing ahead of the target, sent that bearing to the TDC and shot the other five. I had forgotten that I panicked and shot that first torpedo without targeting it at all. Good catch!!!
Read the Bravest Man. I read that book over a decade ago in while in the Navy. it claims that Dick Okane pioneered a shoot from the hip approach like this where instead of determing the parameters you set up the shot at 90 degrees and waited for them to reach a specific bearing and then firing so totally accurate. In the sweltering heat of the south pacific in a non air conditioned tin can this was simpler than fumbling around with the fancy targetting system.
That's absolutely true. If you have a shotgun and want to shoot a duck, there are two ways to get the job done. You can swing the rifle so it always points at a certain lead angle in front of the duck, and then you can pull the trigger any time during the swing. That is analogous to using the position keeper.
The second way is to aim at a certain spot and wait until the duck gets to the correct lead angle and then pull the trigger. This is what Dick O'Kane did and what I teach. You keep your aim on a constant bearing and wait for the target to reach the firing position. By eliminating the position keeper programming you eliminate error, making any errors you *do* make easier to analyze afterwords. It also allows you to set up your attack half an hour before you shoot and leave yourself only the task of maneuvering your sub to the firing position. It takes all the time pressure off the attack.
I agree. I was responding to the claim in the description that this was a hypothetical scenario however I remember it clearly being applied
Really informative and very entertainingly narrated! Thanks Robin! You do indeed rock. ;-)
I sorta can't believe this doesnt have more comments. Maybe cuz it was so long? Either way, this is by far the most informative video on the subject on youtube, Gratz and thanks.
Love the Das Boot theme in the background
Straight off the game soundtrack. And the game is still good all these years later.
The music drowned out a lot of your voice, less volume on Das Boot would have been good for me.
Awesome, thanks for the video! If anyone cares, or is wondering, the higher risk of getting a dud torpedo if it hit at 90 degrees was because the firing pin would buckle.
That background music is waaaay too loud.
At 16:55 you can see the sonar plot of all four torpedoes in the water, with torpedo #1 hitting just aft of our aiming point. You can see five torpedoes in the water (that's all I shot). It's the last torpedo which was the only one to miss as you can see by the sonar plot at 17:19. The important thing is that a blown attack can still work, even without updating to the new angles on the bow.
wish i had paid more attention at math classes....
Well, at 16:53 there's definitely a torpedo, well past the target on the 0 degree line. Dunno where it came from! I'd embed a screenshot but youtube won't let me put in a URL in a comment. It's still a great video and of course your point stands, thanks for making this. It's been really useful.
Sadly I’m deaf. No subtitles. But! I was able to learn anyway. If I was a maths teacher, I’d use this to teach math. Much more exciting.
Thank you for this video. First time I tried it, all torpedoes went well behind target. Watched the video again, and I discoverd the double-clicks necessary.
Result: three wasted torpedoes, and I was happy as hell. Why? All four torpedoes hit just where I aimed them: 1.bow, 2.beneath bridge, 3.midship, 4.stern. Unfortunately/Fortunately, after the first hit, it reported "target destroyed". So those last three hits were overkill and wasted.
Thank you...THANK YOU...THANK YOU for helping to end my frustration with targeting. I've been away from this game for about five years, so this helped a lot.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the concept that range doesn't matter.
+777scubadiver Great to see you're successful with the Dick O'Kane technique. The double clicking on the buttons is necessary with ALL targeting methods with Silent Hunter 4 and for ten years I've been the only one saying and demonstrating that is necessary. Just think of all the wasted torpedoes as a result! The idea should have gone viral throughout the SH4 community as soon as I discovered it.
it is trig. you are facing 90 degrees to his track. the hypotenous is your line of sight. For a given bearing (345 in this case) as you move the track in or out both the distance of you and the distance of the target from the impact point increases...and the ratio is always the same...its the tan of the bearing angle. so if the track is further away the torpedo takes more time to get there but so does the target.
If you look at exactly 16:53 in the video, you can see your first shot actually missed as well: you can see the torpedo went at 0 degrees. So that's 4 hits and two misses, still not bad!
Das Boot's theme song is an international backround of SH tutorials it seems ..
your mouse clicks are so loud I'm surprised the enemy doesn't hear you! 😄
+Leighton Jell nice one ^^
Hello,
this is a long shot but thought I may try, you never know. There is a function or two mentioned in the manual about the compass tool on the nav map. Apparently you can draw a circle with radius shown and attach that to a target? It would then follow the target as the target moves, have you seen this? Do you know how to do it? Also, when you use the marker to "Mark 1" etc.. you can change the term to anything you want with a maximum of 18 characters, do you know how to do this? Thanks
Simon
In my game the measurement in navigation are only in nautical miles, how to I change them to yards?
Thanks for the video.
I doubt, that Dick OKane had GPS navigation, or enemy ships marks on the map back then.
Not bad. I prefer SH5 and its more realistic tactical environment. What if there is fog and you cannot see your target? What about at night? I can use tactics going back to the 1930's, using only passive sonar, no TDC, no crew assist, and no use of mini map to sink a ship from 3km away. It does take practice, but with knowledge of tactics and a little trigonometry, it's not so hard. Thanks for the video. Nice job.
When RockinRobbins measures the speed to be 12 kn at time 1:55, my SH4 is giving me nautical miles, as in 0.6nm. How can I change the units?
How do you want to change the units. For targeting purposes the 2000 yards to the nautical mile crutch is good enough not to miss any targets. So .6 times 2000 is 1200 yards. You, and the original real submariners, can do that in your head.
@@RockinRobbins13 Hi and many thanks for your reply. I just wondered why your video at 1:55 showed 1200, which you directly equated to 12 knots, whereas my SH4 was giving my nautical mile units, i.e. 0.6nm when I performed the same action. I do not have any mods added to SH4. Many thanks for the calculation tip, that makes it easy to convert nm to kn.
@@keithlillis7962 i was thinking the exact same thing...doesn't his compass give him the speed??
I do all my videos in real time, no cuts, events as they happen. It does make the videos longer, but it also shows you EXACTLY what to expect with no hocus-pocus. I hate tutorial videos that make extravagant claims and then don't provide you enough information to duplicate what they claim to have done. You Tube is polluted with them!
Hi! Thanks for the video!
I have A HUGE PROBLEM with torpedoes upgrade. At the base, torpedoes section, I have only mark 10 and 14. The other types of torpedo just disappeared. I know it's a bug. How to solve?
Hi RockinRobbins13 have you thought about doing these videos again? I really enjoyed learning about your tacticts that you gained from the whole dickokane method of attack
Actually I have thought about it and doing a Let's Play video. I'm really strapped for time right now but the idea intrigues me!
If you ever do make a lets play or are willing to do a multiplayer lets play campgain or something let me know through a private message I wouldn't mind joining you and leanring again.
Great job. Very helpful
Thank you yoosta. Thanks makes the whole job worthwhile. Even makes me think about playing Silent Hunter 4 again. It's a great game.
@@RockinRobbins13 you got it brotha. I’m really enjoying Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate mod right now.
@@yoosta22 Awesome. I was leader of the mod team that developed that, with the best parts belonging to others on the team!
@@RockinRobbins13 wow! No way. You should do FotRS series for us on UA-cam………
Hey Rockin quick question for you in the newer version of the game is there no plastic triangle (hairline) now. Do you just put the distance to max (11000) since there is no plastic triangle now. I think I just figured out why I have been missing as writing this. I forgot to subtract the lead AOB time to try again and see if that changes it.
What mod are you using to change the compass from NM to yards?
Why don't I get the white triangle on red background and the white circle on black background on that dial in the top right corner? Been watching these tutorials for help with this game. Those buttons on that dial seem to be really important??!! Why can't I see them. This version of the game is so much more complicated than SH3! Help!
Thanx for video,i calculate Manual Targeting in Silent Hunter 3 but im always fail in Sh 4,i wanna Metric Nomograph and 360 degrees centered Compass,where i find ? i see the video in Map Zoom..Sorry my English Thanx..
Why can't I use the manual Targeting via the TDC? I don't see anything on the top to click on. Tried both German and American subs. Also, what is a "Fleet" boat?
antuan734 You have to choose manual targeting in the options menu and that can only be done in Port
Awesome. TY. One other question: I use the Tool helper all the time and never get the Compass Rose. Any help on this?
If you're playing with dud torpedos, you should avoid 90 degree angles.
how did you came to the conclusion shooting at 345 degrees ? isn't the target speed needed for getting this bearing ?
Also , who told you that range isn't needed even for 0 gyro shots ?
Welcome to the channel! The Dick O'Kane uses a rule of thumb for shooting at a target. If the speed is 10 knots or under we lead by 10 degrees. If the target is coming from left to right we would set our aim bearing at 350. If it's faster we lead by 15 degrees, aiming up the 345 bearing. Now the Dick O'Kane method doesnt give zero gyro shots, it gives shots that are close enough to zero that range doesn't matter.
Since you are arbitrarily picking a shoot bearing, the speed entered into the TDC actually sets the gyro angle, which will not be exactly zero. But when the gyro angle is between -20 and +20 degrees, the range is either irrelevant or non-consequential. Basically, since your aiming angle is 345 degrees, the further from you the target is, the earlier you will be firing. In other words, the situation is self correcting. Closer to you means the shot is fired a shorter time before the boom and farther from you the shot is fired a longer time before the boom, which gives the torpedo the extra time to get there.
It's like a slice of pie. Toward the center of the pie, the width of the slice is smaller than it is toward the outside of the pie. Similarly, the Dick O'Kane method, or any method using a zero gyro angle shot is self correcting for range.
For more information, graphs and proofs visit the Sub Skippers' Bag of Tricks thread at Subsim.com.
hello RockinRobbins,
Still you don't answer to both of my questions so let me rephrase the same questions based on your reply.
How is this that you say ''If the speed is 10 knots or under we lead by 10 degrees'' and later you say ''If it's faster we lead by 15 degrees'' came from ? [Assuming that you are using 46knots torpedo (becuase with no 46 knots torpedo these lead angles are way off)].
But even in the case that you are indeed using 46 knots torpedo then for a target moving with 6 knots the lead angle is 7.4° (if speed is 5 kts then lead is 6.2°) so the above statements for rule of thumps are not giving valid outputs .
i had a glance at your thread at subsim and the second question still remains.Range to target is in the equation even for 0° gyroangle shots so i am wondering where did you saw it written as you say it ''at zero ,range doesn't matter''
Let's divide your question in half.
For the first half you are confusing shoot bearing for lead angle. They aren't the same. And just because we arbitrarily pick a shoot bearing by rule of thumb that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the shot. Take your example with the 6 knot target traveling left to right at 90 degrees from our course. We input 6 knots into the TDC. We set the AoB to 90 minus the 10 degree (starboard) lead on the shoot bearing because that will be the AoB at the moment we will shoot. We aim the periscope up the shoot bearing, drag the range pointer down to about 1500 yards (the game TDC has a cow if the range is zero) and send that range/bearing to the TDC.
What the TDC does is pick the lead angle, let's use your value of 7.4 degrees. We're shooting at the 350 bearing so the TDC computes the lead angle of 7.4, adds it to the 350 degree shoot bearing and sends the torpedo up the 357.4 bearing, hitting the target precisely where you aimed. You see YOU don't determine the lead angle, just the shoot bearing. The TDC does the precise calculation so you don't have to and it never makes a calculation mistake. Rule #1 of my techniques: if you must calculate, make it a simple calculation you can do accurately and repeatedly in your head. Every other calculation must go!
Second half is easier answered graphically than in math or English. But I can't attach the gif here and I'm going to have to just post a link. And it's better than a thousand word description, illustrating beyond any possible argument that with a zero gyro angle range cancels out of the equation. The only thing that matters is whether the torpedo has the range to get there, and what is the error envelope for torpedo speed and heading. Japanese torpedoes had incredible range and speed but their error envelope guaranteed that shots beyond approximately half their range would almost certainly miss their targets. That's why they were used against formations of ships instead of against single ships at long range. But here's the graph image.ibb.co/eN1WU5/OKanemethodanimation.gif. Let me know if it's in any way unclear.
its trig. the tan of your bearing angle is the targets distance to impact divided by your distance to impact. The Tan stays the same regardless of how long the hypotenous of that triangle is.
Joshua Danley,
better read and see the pic i posted at the message above.What you say is true only on the tordedo tube. But the persiscope is some decades meters away and this is making the difference at shooting bearings as range to target differs.
Or have you thought about doing a Lets play? using your methods that you're demoing?
Why does the water look so bad?
Please try night attack and %100 realism with (no map icons) thnx for tutorial
I don't use and recommend that others not use the "100% realism" settings. There's nothing real about them. The real boats had radar ranging, which was MORE accurate than our in-game nav map. Using Trigger Maru Overhauled removes the silhouettes, unit ID, course and speed so you are left with information a bit less accurate than the real boats. They also had a wide range of analysis tools which we do not have. Therefore, as long as you are in a boat with radar, the mapping system as it is does as good a job as we can get to delivering a realistic situation in regard to how much information is available.
"100% realism" is not realistic at all, but is really 155% difficulty, which is another thing altogether, similar to a driving simulator if you wore a bag over your head. Yes, it is a great feat to survive such an experience but it has nothing to do with simulation. There's no reality to driving blind. There's no reality to operating a submarine without the info available to real submariners. Just meaningless difficulty.
RockinRobbins13 Understood Thanx for Re-Back but No Map Icons better for me,I Played SH2 SH3 SH4 ( a Little; Cause I Hate US Submarine) now im Play'n SH5 with Sober's mod Excuse my English and Ty for video Good Hunt Capt.Robbins
Why hate the only successful submarine fleet in history? US subs were vastly superior to the U-Boat fleet.
Think about this: the very existence of U-Boats guaranteed the defeat of Germany by forcing the entrance of the United States into the war! With no U-boats, Germany could have secured the continent, declared peace with Britain and made it stick. With U-boats they were a sure loser.
***** What you said was utterly incomprehensible. I think you were trying to be funny and possibly disagree with what I said. But you botched the job so badly I can't imagine what your position is. Do you actually believe that the U-boats could sink American ships without the US declaring war on Germany? It would be interesting to hear a theory about how that wouldn't happen. Try again please.
Just to be clear, my assertion is that using U-boats in unconditional warfare against Britain was inappropriate because sinking shipping belonging to third party nations could only result in those nations declaring war against Germany. The one nation that German could not afford to be at war with was the US and unconditional U-boat warfare guaranteed that Germany would lose the war when the US came in against them. Therefore, the U-boats, which guaranteed Germany's loss were far inferior to the American submarines, which guaranteed the victory in the Pacific.
Your move.
limpack1 Please make logical sense. Your second contention has nothing to do with the first. But we'll begin by tossing your second statement in the trash can where it belongs. American subs had radar. Their radar position was even more accurate than the "enemy's course on a silver, etc" that you think is so cute. It was more accurate because of binning in the digital version. Look that up since you don't understand it. Therefore, they knew the enemy's course and speed with MORE ACCURACY than you can know it in the game, so long as they had radar. By the way, that radar was usable at periscope depth. Checkmate.
Now your first statement. Since you did nothing to challenge the logic at all, my contention stands uncontested. Submarines worked for the US because they were an appropriate weapon for the task at hand where the U-boat could not produce victory, and in fact guaranteed German defeat. Next!
RockinRobbins HELP! Hoping you can help out. I follow your instructions to the letter (attempted 7 times) but every time I shoot the torpedoes they angle way off to the left (and once tow the right) by 30 to 40 degrees. So if I am aiming at a 9knt ship passing left to right at 1000yrds I am leading 10degrees. Periscope at 350 degrees, first shot just behind the bow as it passes etc. All of the torps veer off to 315 degrees. (This is with latest TMO version)
Okay, their heading tells the story. When you're setting up your TDC you still have to input speed, 9 kts, then press sent to TDC twice. Then you input AOB, which will be 90 minus your 10 degree lead angle or 80º and then you have to decide whether it's a starboard or port AOB. Set it for the side of the target you're looking at. In this case you're looking at the right or starboard side of your target so your AOB is 80º Starboard. I'll bet you have it set Port. Make sure you push that send to TDC button twice.
Lastly, sight your scope up the 350 bearing and hit the send data to TDC button twice. Check your attack map to see the track the torpedoes are going to follow. It should be pretty close to 9º plus or minus a few degrees. Now set up your sub 90 degrees to the target track at your favorite range. Point the scope up the 350 bearing and push fire as the parts of the target you want to hit cross the wire.
It sounds like either you're not sending data to the TDC or you're entering port AOB instead of starboard. Let me know how it works out.
@@RockinRobbins13 The only difference that I have from what you stated above and in the video is that the torpedoes are NOT following the track that is shown on the Attack map. I see the angle on the attack map being about 9degrees to the right (starboard) but when I shoot the torpedoes they are traveling to the left (port) at a much steeper angle. So when I shoot, instead of traveling to lead the target they are going the opposite way. It is almost like I am firing the rear torpedoes (I am not)
@@negajoule I have seen that happen when people get mod soup. The solution is a complete reinstall of SH4, then reinstall TMO. I'll bet that fixes it. You must delete the entire SH4 Wolves of the Pacific directory because the SH4 install routine looks to see if the file exists and if it does, it doesn't replace it. So uninstall, delete the game directory, reinstall, new TMO and you're ready to try again.
@@RockinRobbins13 I will give that a try.
Actually I COULD only have shot five because tube 6 is loading the entire time. I didn't have six to shoot.
I like the tutorial, but the music is too depressing. Maybe pick something else next time.
6:13 that guitar tune...soooo familiar....anyone know where its from??
stuka80 pink Floyd
+Canadian Gold ... Haha... could be. But it's certainly not, for Klaus Doldinger is the artist. It's part of the OST of _'Das Boot'_ and this particular track is called _'Erinnerung'_ (Memory). #6 in the OST soundtrack list.
Klaus Doldinger's _'Das Boot'_ OST ua-cam.com/video/Qxx_heoUO-U/v-deo.htmlm9s , track title _'Erinnerung'_
Comes/ came with the mod _'Das Boot music'_ .
Based on comments this is supposedly very helpful but commentary was so low and muddled it was extremely difficult to understand anything being said.
I just double-checked. The audio is low (I've learned handle it much better since then) but the words are very clear and understandable. Check out your sound system. I had the treble speakers disconnected from my subwoofer once and what I was hearing was exactly what you describe: muffled and very indistinct. I plugged the other five speakers in and suddenly I could understand the words. Hope that helps.
Is there a tutorial in the game?
There are tutorials on how to shoot torpedoes but they're not the greatest. Your best source for information on the game is the Subsim.com website. We're always happy to help people out. I have a thread on there called Sub Skippers' Bag of Tricks, which isn't so much about how to operate the geme, but about submarine strategy and tactics. Go to Subim and you'll find everything you need.
Thanks :-)
If this had been done without the annoying music, it would have been much better.
At the time I didn't have good control over relative volumes and wouldn't do it the same way today.
you were soo quiet Rockin....
so, what about using the radar (as shown here) ua-cam.com/video/J6kq4simwI0/v-deo.html
To get the ships range, speed and direction, to make a precise shot without using the map icons?.
Sebastian Ja In real life that's what they did. Our radar screen, however isn't good enough for us to gleen accurate information off of, as they did. Therefore we use the combat map to simulate the quality of information and plot that they were able to develop. Isn't perfect but it's the best we're going to get.
Some mods improve the radar and other instruments of the Sub to help you get it right. I havent played this game in a long time, but I remember that after some practice I was able to achieve that.
mmmmmmmkay. I don't see any comment on windows8 here. It's a mystery folks!
HEY! that is my Grayfish!!! You thief :D
you say range does not matter ?? without range you cannot do the calcalation to get the speed of the target, this is not a manual target solution, your marker on the map at the very beginning is giving you the range which the software has given to you Dick okane could not use this method has without range you cannot get speed, also you did not have to take your six knots into consideration. This would fail in real world,you can do true manual targeting in silent hunter but not like this. Also submarine radar of this time period was on a too long wavelength to give you accurate enough range data to use in a targeting solution.
UNDERPANTS _ Why do you make a statement without understanding the video? The very first thing I do, half an hour before I shoot, is use radar and the 3 minute rule to calculate target speed without caring about his range. Please refrain from writing letters to your girl during class. If you are killed because of your inattention it won't matter what sweet nothings you send.
Not only could this be done in World War II, it was Dick O'Kane's preferred method. Radar was by far the most accurate measuring device they had.
I've taught taught hundreds of people manual targeting in Silent Hunter and had many conversations with real submariners who endorse my Dick O'Kane method as perfectly workable in a real sub.
Oh My God... click twice... that is why my data isn't being input right... -_-"
Don't smoke cigs before recording you voice.
In my game the measurement in navigation are only in nautical miles, how to I change them to yards?