North Star is great for sure. I hope to breed ours up to their standards. I am hoping to keep their birds separate from our others. but we only have 12 hens at the moment. lol
It would be a good idea to keep them separate and hatch from the groups independently, to see what they throw forward. From there, once you know how each line produces, then you can dabble in a blend to see how that does.
Meh, they're alright. 🤣 It's tricky to stay motivated when my eye keeps going to their faults. Have to keep reminding myself of their good points and usefulness.
My view is whether you breed for production or show, why not try to keep improving your stock through selection and careful breeding. Just because your birds are show quality does not mean they are poor producers. The big hatcheries need volume, so they use mediocre birds as well as good ones. If you are a small breeder, you can have high quality working towards the SofP and production!
Thanks for the great video, as always!!! At what age do you normally butcher the birds? What feed do you give your birds from day 1 to butchering time? Thanks
Typically we process at 16-18 weeks and see a 4-5lb dress weight, from a 6-7.5 live weight now with where they've progressed to. We feed a 20% all-flock starter for the duration of growth, unless we do a special finishing. The special finishing I used last time was 1/3rd their feed, 1/3rd cracked corn and 1/3rd wheat berries. I only had enough raw milk for 1 week (for soaking the feed for 24 hours), after that it was dry. They must have grit and fresh water during finishing, along with confinement (no free range). I prefer a 4 week finishing period.
It depends on how into it you want to get. Pair hatching allows the easiest "back tracking" to really go through the adults for what they are passing forward. You can then repeat the breeding if it was good/great, try a different pairing, or cull the bird that may have thrown poor results. Tracking the offspring from pairs tells the story. Without having a known pair, you're then at the mercy of sorting/selecting through the offspring but you don't have the luxury of knowing who their mother was specifically, so you can only hope for pen averages and some critical thinking to find who may not have bred forward good results. Historically, I have done 3-10 females per male, aiming for the girls to all be similar to each other. Then culling through offspring for the freezer and looking at what I have left that passed the initial checks. While it worked for the freezer and some loose progress, I've about outgrown it for any more meaningful improvements to the flocks.
I don't like flighty birds. That would be one I would cull. I will not keep aggressive birds or flighty birds. They tend to stir up the whole flock. My own intent is never for "show or exhibition". I'm all about having birds to butcher and eggs to eat. I'm taking on Bresse, so I can move away from doing any cornish crosses in the future. It may take 12-24 months, but I expect at some point, that will be reality. Like you, I intend on solely selective breeding. Unfortunately, IF I want outside genetics, I will need to order eggs or chicks from someplace I can't see their birds. What I have found locally, is nothing impressive. Sadly, pee poor genetics seem to be passed around in my area. People selling eggs/chicks are selling just because they are "Breese" and not prime/quality examples of the breed. I am also raising heritage breeds of turkeys this year. For me it's all about sustainability. I do enjoy your chats on the Bresse and what you are doing with them. I also found another fella that had crossed Bresse with cornish crosses. He doesn't give very good info about what he is doing, but I find that kind of interesting too. I would like to see more of your work and his. Some of the others talking about chickens, don't get very in detail with what they are doing. There is a difference between just keeping/raising a breed and working a breed.
Yes sadly a lot of varieties have "peddlers" and propagators hatching for sale without a whole lot of breeding work put into the flock. That doesn't produce birds that are "true to type" and certainly gives people a bad first impression of the variety. It took me about 3 generations to rein our results in and accelerate the growth rate. I've collected just enough genetic diversity to keep them going indefinitely though I'm still dealing with the ramifications of the 2nd line cross I did. That bird had brought in wonky wings that he didn't show, but it came through in offspring and I'm still culling for it. In the future I'll definitely be more cautious in how I add in a new bird and keep the coverage limited. Our Turkeys are so fun! This season we have White Holland, Sweatgrass and a Royal Palm tom. As a group they've produced Chocolate, Slate, Sweetgrass, Royal Palm and possibly Bourbon Red... I'll know more when the poults feather in a bit more. The Royal Palm tom over the Sweetgrass females will make a sexlink, Palm females and Sweetgrass males. The Hollands must be hiding other colors that get expressed when crossed into another pattern. I need to get them separated to get Holland poults, they so far have dressed out the best of all the types we've tried. Slightly larger than good quality Bourbon Reds.
So glad I found this site
The new bird looks great
Your talk applies to other varieties. Enjoyed it
Very good overview of selective breeding!
North Star is great for sure. I hope to breed ours up to their standards. I am hoping to keep their birds separate from our others. but we only have 12 hens at the moment. lol
It would be a good idea to keep them separate and hatch from the groups independently, to see what they throw forward. From there, once you know how each line produces, then you can dabble in a blend to see how that does.
Great info as usual
Your page is so helpful! Thank you!!
Good looking birds you have.
Meh, they're alright. 🤣 It's tricky to stay motivated when my eye keeps going to their faults. Have to keep reminding myself of their good points and usefulness.
Thanks!
Such bold eyes!
My view is whether you breed for production or show, why not try to keep improving your stock through selection and careful breeding. Just because your birds are show quality does not mean they are poor producers. The big hatcheries need volume, so they use mediocre birds as well as good ones. If you are a small breeder, you can have high quality working towards the SofP and production!
How big are those pens you use for observing the birds?
Thanks for the great video, as always!!!
At what age do you normally butcher the birds?
What feed do you give your birds from day 1 to butchering time?
Thanks
Typically we process at 16-18 weeks and see a 4-5lb dress weight, from a 6-7.5 live weight now with where they've progressed to. We feed a 20% all-flock starter for the duration of growth, unless we do a special finishing. The special finishing I used last time was 1/3rd their feed, 1/3rd cracked corn and 1/3rd wheat berries. I only had enough raw milk for 1 week (for soaking the feed for 24 hours), after that it was dry. They must have grit and fresh water during finishing, along with confinement (no free range). I prefer a 4 week finishing period.
How do mark the birds to keep tract of different genetic lines?
Would you recommend 2:1 or 5:1 for breeding or pair them up?
It depends on how into it you want to get. Pair hatching allows the easiest "back tracking" to really go through the adults for what they are passing forward. You can then repeat the breeding if it was good/great, try a different pairing, or cull the bird that may have thrown poor results. Tracking the offspring from pairs tells the story.
Without having a known pair, you're then at the mercy of sorting/selecting through the offspring but you don't have the luxury of knowing who their mother was specifically, so you can only hope for pen averages and some critical thinking to find who may not have bred forward good results.
Historically, I have done 3-10 females per male, aiming for the girls to all be similar to each other. Then culling through offspring for the freezer and looking at what I have left that passed the initial checks. While it worked for the freezer and some loose progress, I've about outgrown it for any more meaningful improvements to the flocks.
I don't like flighty birds. That would be one I would cull. I will not keep aggressive birds or flighty birds. They tend to stir up the whole flock. My own intent is never for "show or exhibition". I'm all about having birds to butcher and eggs to eat. I'm taking on Bresse, so I can move away from doing any cornish crosses in the future. It may take 12-24 months, but I expect at some point, that will be reality.
Like you, I intend on solely selective breeding. Unfortunately, IF I want outside genetics, I will need to order eggs or chicks from someplace I can't see their birds. What I have found locally, is nothing impressive. Sadly, pee poor genetics seem to be passed around in my area. People selling eggs/chicks are selling just because they are "Breese" and not prime/quality examples of the breed.
I am also raising heritage breeds of turkeys this year. For me it's all about sustainability. I do enjoy your chats on the Bresse and what you are doing with them. I also found another fella that had crossed Bresse with cornish crosses. He doesn't give very good info about what he is doing, but I find that kind of interesting too. I would like to see more of your work and his. Some of the others talking about chickens, don't get very in detail with what they are doing. There is a difference between just keeping/raising a breed and working a breed.
Yes sadly a lot of varieties have "peddlers" and propagators hatching for sale without a whole lot of breeding work put into the flock. That doesn't produce birds that are "true to type" and certainly gives people a bad first impression of the variety. It took me about 3 generations to rein our results in and accelerate the growth rate.
I've collected just enough genetic diversity to keep them going indefinitely though I'm still dealing with the ramifications of the 2nd line cross I did. That bird had brought in wonky wings that he didn't show, but it came through in offspring and I'm still culling for it. In the future I'll definitely be more cautious in how I add in a new bird and keep the coverage limited.
Our Turkeys are so fun! This season we have White Holland, Sweatgrass and a Royal Palm tom. As a group they've produced Chocolate, Slate, Sweetgrass, Royal Palm and possibly Bourbon Red... I'll know more when the poults feather in a bit more. The Royal Palm tom over the Sweetgrass females will make a sexlink, Palm females and Sweetgrass males. The Hollands must be hiding other colors that get expressed when crossed into another pattern. I need to get them separated to get Holland poults, they so far have dressed out the best of all the types we've tried. Slightly larger than good quality Bourbon Reds.