Update on this case (6/21): ua-cam.com/video/F4yvz6akmQg/v-deo.html Please consider donating, as I have, to the Linnea Foundation, a link that was provided by her mom: givebutter.com/linnea
Yeah that dive instructor there needs to go to prison for murder. Do you know back in the day there was a nurse who used to kill people by injecting them with insulin. And listening to the decisions that were made for her really makes me to believe that maybe he is a murderer and he did this on purpose because I just can’t believe he thought she needed 44 pounds of weight without inflator hose
@@darkmxhishot7475 Mate, I have WITNESSED PADI instructors loading up their patents with excess amount of lead in one of my favourite lake. One little Asian woman I saw had over 24KG of lead on her OW course dives. DOn't get me started on PADI.....
As a diver with 44 years of experience this sounds like criminal negligence to me. No one with that little experience should have done this dive under these conditions
the people who even certified her were the real criminals!! who can't figure out to quickly remove a weight belt must never ever go diving! she had no business being in a tub with dive gear on !
33 years /20 as a retired instructor and this thing is beyond neglect and a case can easily be made. Prosecutor just needs to discuss it with PADI or any experienced Instructor. A basic OW diver from any agency shouldn't do anything listed in these documents let alone in the presence of an Instructor. Preaching to the choir but this just makes my blood boil. PADI may be named but this person violated so many S&P there free from any responsibility Im sure. Weight in a pocket is day one shit to never even consider.
@@annabizaro-doo-dah as a X diver? I would never even tried That! I was diving with an Ignoramus once. He would not drop the very heavy thing he found! So I grabbed a hold of him by the tank, and went up. The dummy thought I was trying to turn off his air, and trying to fight him for it. It was not till we were out of the water that he realized he was almost about to die. Never dive with Scarrey Gary from Alaska! I would ever dive like they did! Her dive instructions/ instructor is more at fault than the ignoramus people diving with her!
Diver here. This is so tragic. For an instructor from any agency to allow a student to go diving in a drysuit with no drysuit training let alone not having a low pressure hose to regulate buoyancy in the drysuit is truly incomprehensible. They KNOW she only has 5 or 6 dives. They KNOW she hasn't been diving in a year and a half. So, they tell her to buy a drysuit and then go twilight diving with none of the students having lights in 38 degree water. The level of negligence here is incomprehensible.
Also grossly overweighted and the instructor not having the certification to teach the course. There's so many wrongs and the dive industry needs a clean up from these "cowboys". Also the dive center hiring a person that doesn't have the proper training. It's a piäure tragedy.
@@Musiknird reading everything, the course was adv open water, which the instructor was certified to teach. Might not of been drysuit certified, but that wasn't the course. It was one of the failures. Being in a drysuit without proper training and equipment (missing hose). Assigned Buddy and Buddy checks should of caught that.
Years ago when I took my PADI open water at my local dive shop, I signed up for a dry suit speciality course directly afterward. However during the dry suit skills course (first skills portion in a pool) with the dive shop's gear and neoprene dry suit, in the first couple pool dives I found that the dry suit leaked at the neck seal and the suit filled with water and also lost air at the neck seal. I notifed the dive master and he used electrical tape wraped around my neck on the outside of the neck seal in an effort to stop the leak, when I questioned him about it safety he said dont worry they do it all the time. On the last pool dive I was barely able to climb out of the pool because of the amount of water in the suit! The remaining course dives were to be open water dives (ocean), I dropped out because of their dry suit, I told the dive master I would not go in the ocean with a leaky dry suit and that I would buy my own suit and return for the remaining part of the course , he tried to pursuade me that they would get me a different suit, I still said no and then he said "ok its your choice". I never returned and my advice to all divers is that if anything doesnt seem correct or you feel unsure dont dive! Also buy you own gear, used is ok if certified, but I reccomend new, your life depends on it.
For that dive center trying to throw Bob under the bus when he did everything possible you can ask from a diver, but their incompetence made his attempt to save her life close to impossible. It infuriates me!
Yes, he put himself in serious danger trying to help her, despite this completely incompetent instructor. I hope he is okay and does not feel guilty. He went above and beyond.
Imagine how many incidents like this went under reported, falsely reported, or covered up before the advent of go-pro type devices. Also, I think it showed great respect to add the 1 min of silence at the end of the video.
Gosh this is the first time I've ever heard of coverups of diving accidents. But then again usually the dive instructors and dive centers actually know what they're doing. A truly tragic loss...
Reading the legal document makes me furious. This so called instructor let that poor girl die a horrible death while her classmate tried desperately to help her. Only to then go and blame the student that tried to save the victim for her death. What bullshit
Yes, and the idiots loaded the young lady up with enough lead to sink a small ship. This is a terrible situation and the loss of a young life that could easily of been prevented.
As an instructor I tell students not to get in a drysuit unless they’ve had a drysuit course. If I even buddy with anyone and they have a drysuit my first question is about how much drysuit time they have. If they say they haven’t had any or the course I’m out. This was an avoidable fatality. Not even an accident. 44 lbs on a small person plus cylinder?! What were they thinking?
Sounds like they used some table or something and weighted her as if the suit was inflated. And what thermal protection do most dry suits provide if NOT inflated?? PS: I only did open water basic PADI by Vancouver Island, there were some people on it doing dry suit first dives etc. That is the sad extent of my experience. It was a bit of a mess, my rental suit at the time had issues, as did some of the dry suits. Luckily I was able to borrow a wet suit from one of the dry suit students, I was underweight and struggled to leave the surface for quite a while, but the seal deciding to play with me (unbeknownst to me, but entertaining the other students) and seeing dolphins afterward while on the way back on the dive boat was great.
especially not knowing how to get a #$@! weight belt off ! just unforgivable to let her go diving !! they had NO BUSINESS giving her a certification whatsoever!
17:40 - My heart breaks for Linea, and for Bob. Bob was just trying to do a dive. His daughter decided against it for whatever reason so he buddies up with Linea only to witness this young girl die despite doing everything he possibly could to help. That is such a sad, horrific, and traumatic event that will stay with him for the rest of his life. And then for the dive shop to attack him, tried to lay blame on him for their F up.....smh.....I can't imagine the internal h×ll he's fighting. Bob, you're an amazing man that I believe God put in Linea's life so that she didn't d×e alone. I know you wish you could've saved her, but at least she d×ed knowing somebody was trying to fight for her. I can only imagine that d×ath would've been more of a h×ll alone. I pray that in time you can make peace with what happened.
@@tammyburke9453 I'm sorry, but we're talking about someone's *death* here. For people who _aren't_ brainwashed into religious beliefs, saying something like "I believe God put you here so that she didn't have to die alone" is not only offensive and uncomforting, but also insulting and shallow. Shame on *YOU.* I can't believe I actually have to tell you this, but *you* are the @$$hole here, not the person protesting the OPs shallow, meaningless, and utterly offensive final paragraph of his post.
My heart just dropped when I heard that they put 44 lbs of lead on her, knowing that she can't inflate her dry suit. Those people killed her, literally. And they are so negligent that they missed multiple opportunities to save her.
I agree wholeheartedly. I'm 6' 2" and weigh around 200 pounds and have never carried more than 32 pounds of lead when wearing a neoprene dry suit. All other things aside, the fact that this poor girl was horribly overweighted should have been obvious to the so called instructor. What happened is nothing short of negligence.
As a non diver, putting 44 lbs of freakin lead on a young girl makes zero sense when wearing a dry suit with no buoyancy. I mean shit dude. A little bit of common sense goes a long way. This is the first time Ive heard this story and I honestly cried not only because she was so young and fruitful but she just seemed like a huge positive contributor to earth
I've never dived and I'm not familiar with technical things. I see many comments regarding the weights in the pockets, why would be that an issue? Can't one take them out of the pockets? And if that wasn't standard procedure, is it known what was the rationale/explanation of the instructorsfor doing so? Thanks.
@@joane241. with that much weight and not enough way to add bouncy. she will sink like a rock the moment she is in the water. She simple don't have enough time to react, and she is a brand new diver in training, she is not going to know how to deal with it. 2. Most of her weight is not even ditchable because they put the weigh in her dry suit. This is a very predictable disaster, I can't believe they just let it happen. These people are murders, there is no doubt in this.
At the moment I saw that they "stuffed" weights into her suit, it was evident that the outcome would be horrible. It's like they just told her to pick out her own equipment and tossed her off the edge. Gross negligence.
Poor bob….I really hope that guy is still okay and doesn’t feel some form of survivors guilt. Can’t imagine being in that scenario of trying to help someone and having to bail to save yourself.
Thank you for sharing this sad story. I hope your information saves someone’s life in the future. I am trained in group night kayak safety instructions. I just purchased a used dry suit. I plan on using my suit to pan for gold in a creek behind my cabin. You were very kind, understanding, and empathetic in presenting the information. I know Bob must be suffering because his daughter is so close in age. I am researching the use of my suit, safety, and precautions...and yes, inflation, and weight release options...
@@thewindyone5228 THanks so much for adding your thoughts, Gail. Best of luck on your continued adventure. Tragic events like this are an apportunity to stay sharp and vigilant...have a great adventure.
Seriously… the person responsible was blaming and shaming Bob on a scuba safety forum. No doubt he’s endured torment… such a nightmare for this poor girl, the other students, and her family!
I had to stop watching halfway through. The 40 lbs of lead on a girl was a death wish. They didn't do a buoyancy check in the shallows? You're right: angry.
I'm a warm water diver who got certified in 1981. I wear a dive skin, and use 7 pounds of weight. I know nothing about diving with a dry suit, but 40 pounds sounds excessive. The fact that they allowed her to dive without a dive buddy, and the fact that they allowed her to dive without the proper equipment blows my mind. I'm not even sure I agree with letting her take an advanced course with so few dives under her belt. But, I do agree with Downlink...the dive operators need jail time. Lots of it.
@@thunderpuppy6719 i run 45lbs with dry rap, with a 120 tank. But on purposes as I'm on a deep water search team an decent a little quicker then most do. Usually drop 20 at 70. Remember she was in fresh water not salt also. This is a horrible situation, but honestly its your life to protect in the end an there is plenty of free advice that should be researched before going with or without a instructor. You read a driver manual before getting a drivers license. You should read up on equipment your using before using it. Just my opinion, but I think she jumped the gun only having 5 dives previous anyhow. Probably never experienced any malfunctioning what so ever an was completely helpless on any option to save herself.
@@davidwalczak1297 People like us, read a cars' manual before driving - or at least press every button to see what it does and test every function. But most people do not! They just get in and drive! They use this same thinking in the rest of their lives and leave it to others to teach/guide them. Dive centres (as well as every other professional outfit, in whatever industry) have a duty of care to these people and need to watch over them. I think it's the fact she booked a course here, it was for the dive centre to look out for her and guide her!
As important as an inflator hose is for a drysuit - the dive should have NEVER taken place. Add the dangerous way of weighting (and the excess weight) - and you have an accident waiting to happen. This is all on the instructor, who seems inadequate in many ways. I can't imagine how that instructor got certified....
Correct me if I am wrong but the way I see it - not being a diver - there was no accident. She just went down there and died as a direct result of the way ahe was equipped. As far as I can tell, there was no way for her to get out alive.
@@tolvajakos In hindsight, this as a buddy: follow her down, let her breath through your octopus, get her out of her jacket, dumping all the gear. Check her drysuit pockets for weights, dump them, then ascent. If you still need more buoyancy, inflate your SMB, disconnect your inflator from your BCD (you can inflate manually and on ascend you only have to deflate anyway) and connect and inflate her drysuit (if possible - apparently the valve was mounted). Next step: dump your weights as well. Difficult to accomplish, but doable if everyone stays calm and work together. However, not with the other person panicking. Guy was openwater junior, I don't blame him. 100% the instructor is to blame and utterly incompetent. That said, Linnea should have known better and aborted the dive. She was already Open Water Certified and would have noticed the missing weight check and buddy check (and the missing buddy). She could maybe have known that there is a drysuit diver specialty for a reason. Authority gradient is an issue, and she was very young, not so easy to speak up. Guys, if your buddies or instructors are being incompetent, speak up and abort. Sort the legal stuff out afterwards. Not worth your life.
Lawyer here. This is infuriating. The fact that an earlier fatality had occurred in relation to Gull Dive and that this information wasn't prominently available. FFS, tragic and negligent.
I barefoot at 43 mph and crash with my drysuit. It has no inflator..inflator? Haha this is stupid. She is responsible to lose her weight. She was certified...period
I tried diving in the PNW, and in my 6-8 dives(Including certification dives) I saw two uncontrolled ascents thanks to dry suit misuse. It is a piece of equipment that demands a ton of respect, I can't imagine letting a new person dive with so little understanding of it at all.
Debbie Snow has been on the scuba pages blaming the other student. It’s incredibly frustrating. Her gross negligence is criminal; the way she has acted afterwards should result in prison time.
It's so gross and she has zero self-perception and is obviously a danger to herself and to others. Nothing makes me as furious as these ignorant people in the dive industry the break the standard, has zero respect, doesn't respect limits and not putting safety first. I've seen way too many of them and I hope she goes to prison.
So was this a drysuit specialty class or an AOW class?Either was the instructor was grossly negligent . From what I got out of this video it was an AOW class.Who in their right mind would let a diver take the AOW class in a drysuit for which she had no training or certification. Why would they have put this poor girl in a recreational BCD and then load on 40 pounds of weight that far exceeded the lift capacity of the BCD.Why would they let a diver who had no training in the use of a drysuit get in the water with no means to inflate the suit.What kind of instructor allows a student to get into the water with defective gear?I generally am against lawsuits but this was not a dive accident.It's manslaughter and people should be held accountable for this poor girls death.
Dry suits were never given much concern. BSAC back in the early 90’s never gave instruction or built a class around it. You just bought one and used it and the sports diver syllabus was the same regardless of wet, semi or dry. I struggled in mine trying to hone the correct weight and stopping air migration everywhere I did not want it.
I’ve been diving for 40 years and am a former OW, Advanced and Rescue Instructor and have done Stage Deco, and I would not dive a dry suit without being fully trained in a pool before going OW. I’m in North Florida and don’t dive dry suits even in my Deco stuff. A 5mm Farmer John and Jacket is enough, but I’ve thought about it to extend the diving season, but the idea that someone allowed this woman with almost no experience to dive a dry suit without training is criminal.
@@jamespalmer5819 because it’s filled with air. A wetsuit increases buoyancy but it’s a known quantity. If you’re too buoyant in a wetsuit, you simply won’t sink. In a dry suit, you’re constantly adding air and without the training to know how to manage it, it can get away from you. You have to learn how to manage the increased buoyancy or risk an uncontrolled ascent. You can even get uncontrollably upside down because air fills the legs pulling you up by your feet. Training and practice are critical to all phases of diving.
@@meh9682 probably because they have deep pockets. If the manufacturer did not require that the shop provide training to end users then they may be liable. I would think that every manufacturer would have training guidelines that they provide to shops. If they didn’t do that or something like that, could be why. Also, there may have been a defect in the suit. I don’t know.
I can’t even comprehend this. Horrifying beyond words. Someone definitely deserves to go to jail for this. Gross negligence and complete incompetence are severe understatements
I don’t think I have watched a gut wrenching video on UA-cam that was this heartbreaking. Thank you for explaining what happened. I feel terrible for this girl and her family.
Thank, you, Brett. It is a heartbreaker, and I know it was long vid for some…but I felt I could spare 22 mins of attention for this poor girl. Appreciate the support.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo We lost our young adult daughter to illness in 2017. We were able to be there for her. I am absolutely gutted for the family. Gutted.
I am certified YMCA/PADI and I feel you on how difficult this must have been for you even to discuss. What a nightmare that poor girl. I only dove once in freshwater for cave diving in Florida and can’t imagine why they would put that much weight on her. These guys had no idea what they were doing and should never have been training. The instructor is the Captain and therefore responsible. What a cluster of mistakes!
From Germany we follow this case and we send our deepest condolences to the family. A gross case of negligence that we hope sees justice. These instructors have the poor girls blood in their hands.
This make me so sad. She was set up for failure. I dive in the cold waters of Maine and I have felt the squeeze. It is extremely scary and nerve racking. There is a reason you should go through classes for every advancement in diving especially drysuits. My condolences to her family. Thank you for sharing this story
I’m a Padi cert diver with 100 dives, mostly resort dives in the Caribbean/ Gulf.. This lady dropped like a rock to the bottom. Buoyancy control is everything in diving, It’s critical. In flying an Airplane, air speed and lift is everything. Terrible, Awful and Tragic! This girl probably weighed only 110 lbs. Half her weight, without dual- buoyancy. Crazy again.
My condolences to the family. This is one reason why I use a high volume BC, and I have used it to lift a diver with a BC failure. And I am very glad to have had an instructor who was an ex-DDay frogman, who deeply impressed us with safety procedures.
A number of years ago, a diver friend invited me to go drysuit diving with him. He had spare drysuit that he would loan me. Despite being an experienced atlantic diver, I had never used a drysuit. I thanked him for his offer, but said no thanks. Without any training, it was a no deal.
As you say a drysuit is another system to manage when diving. It definately adds complexity to a dive. My advice to people is don't take on more than one new skill at a time. Baby steps...and practice are advisable when learning diving. I can't imagine the squeeze you would get attempting to dive in a drysuit without the ability to add air. No experienced diver would allow a new drysuit diver to even consider it...instructor or not. When putting on a course you can't expect a student "buddy" to be able to rescue another one of your students. It's great if they can but not so easy at depth in a stressful situation. Between the instructor and the dive master(s) they need to keep aware of the students and be on the look out for any signs of trouble.
We find ourselves in today agreement, Paul. The only positive result of incidents like this is to constantly remind me to stay sharp...always be looking to see what might happen and prevent.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Exactly. Look for students that show anxiety, even on shore before entering the water. These students deserve extra attention by divemasters and instructors alike. Expect them to have trouble and require assistance.
I’m not a diver, can you please explain what the “squeeze” is. Also, in my thinking, wouldn’t adding air to your suit also feel like being “squeezed”? Thanks.
Water is more dense the deeper you go. At the surface you have one atmosphere of pressure compressing your body. Every 33' the atmospheric pressure increases by one. I.e. at 33' you have 2 atmospheres pressing on you, 3 atmospheres at 66' and so on. This water pressure compresses air. So whatever volume of air you have in your drysuit at the surface is cut it half when you reach 33'. As a diver it feels like the air has been sucked out of your suit, kind of like you're being vacuum sealed. The suit is designed so air can be added to increase the air pressure in the suit to return the air volume to a comfortable level. The squeeze you feel as a diver is uncomfortable at first, likely painful if you went deeper. It would constrict your breathing and restrict your movement. Undoubtedly it would contribute to feelings of panic at some point.
Listening to this not only makes me extremely pissed off, it damn near gives me a panic attack. As an “advanced” open water diver, with around 60 dives, I still find myself uncomfortable in the water at times and I cannot begin to imagine this happening to me. Although I have a kindergarten level of knowledge and experience as a diver, I would’ve aborted the dive and fired the instructor. PADI (in this case) owns some responsibility here too. All too often they just want those fees in their bank account and they don’t hold instructors & shops to account for their bad practices. The “instructor” put this girl in an extremely deadly situation prior to entering the water and then he abandoned her directly after entering the water…this is homicide. The instructor used her enthusiasm and love of diving to take advantage of her for monetary gain. How can anyone be ready for an “advanced” course with under 20 dives? How can she send a student into the water during a freaking high-altitude NIGHT DIVE without a torch, no dry suit training, a non-functioning dry suit, and a literal anchor strapped to her? I don’t even have the words.
Ooh trust me. I have seen people with just OWC done go into AOWC. I did about 12 dives before I got my AOWC. I now have 22 dives and havent done rescue yet. I have seen people with less dives than me going for rescue diver course! It beats me as to how a novice can save others. Its just irresponsible on the part of the diver, the centre n PADI too for having such crap requirements.
Tragic condolences to the family, I am happy to hear the family is ok with the idea of people learning from this tragedy. BItter as the event was your advice is what makes this death have value. Hopefully your advice and tips will save lives.
Especially when it is not accessible to get rid of it if needed, as in this case. I do not dive, but how does one determine how much weight to use for a dive? And if instructor knows she cannot air up her suit, which I assume would give some buoyancy, so this much weight seems like a lot. It would be like her holding 5 and 1/2 gallon jugs of water while going down? Thank goodness for the other diver trying to assist her! Why didn't the leader go check on them, especially if rescue breathing was in progress? Too many things just don't make sense!
It is sad how she was destined to do great things, and seemed to be trying to do things the right way. Sadly with the wrong people. RIP young lady and my condolences to her family and friends. May this dive shop and person leading this dive, be shut down forever so they don't kill any more people. Sad and heartbreaking.
History doesn’t hold up your statement….even a 100 years ago if you were poisoned working with radium you were told was “totally safe,” or got black lung as a miner, or had your hand cut off in a factory….everyone just shrugged, fired the worker, then got a new one. The radium workers was the most ridiculous case of a workplace causing death, and the business owners did hugely outrageous things (likely stealing bodies, claiming it was just coincidence 3 girls in their 20s had their lower jaws essentially fall off, threatening workers, and the workers who suffered horrible deaths got a pittance - and that was considered ground-breaking, because before they got nothing. Much of the delay currently is that it is often very tricky to get the right person to blame….take the fertilizer explosion in Lebanon….is the fault of the Russian tanker that brought there and then left? Or the warehouse that stored it for years knowing it was dangerous? They wrote letter after letter to the local government saying it was unsafe and to move it, with the local government saying they didn’t have the funds. Or the fault of the nearby fireworks warehouse that caught on fire first, leading to the fertilizer exploding, as many buildings would (gas lines), etc. in a building fire? All of them? Not easy to tell.
I’m crying, my heart is hurting for Linnea, her buddy, and the family. What an incredibly tragic story, and I pray the family gets the justice they so deserve. What heroic acts to try and save her by Linnea’s buddy.
Have not been in the water since I sold my dive shop, health reasons, this makes my chest ache. The arrogance of the entitled !!!!!!!!!!!!!! They murdered that child.
I've been wanting to start learning diving and PADI instructors are more common in my area. I was hesitant to read about diving incidents since I'm afraid I would be chickened out. But you explain the tragedy so well, it's both interesting and terribly awful how every time a fatal incident like this happens (and not just diving related) most of the time it's due to gross negligence from workers fatality to nuclear disaster. My friend told me my gear would be my lifeline and I guess this really drives it home. Scares me how as a student you're practically at the mercy of your instructor's competence. Awesome explanation, you've earned a new sub.
Many thanks for the view, comment and sub, Muffin. My best advice when seeking a dive instructor is to try and get advice from divers on recommended instructors in your area. If I had the choice, I'd personally go with a highly recommended/respected instructor, over choosing an agency fist, then see which instructors happen to be in my area. Best wishes on your adventure!
Oh my gosh that must’ve been so scary. My condolences to her and her family. Can’t imagine being her in that scenario. Training and certification is of the upmost importance when it comes to diving.
During the minute of silence I became acutely aware of my slow and effortless breathing, and the fact that Linnea was not afforded that "option" in her last minutes. May she be in peace. I hope that this video prevents anyone else from suffering this same fate; and that it may be a cautionary tale for other students and instructors.
Jim you handled a very difficult subject with a lot of respect. We know it's hard for the family, cannot imagine their pain but grateful for their contribution. As divers we like to know the details of a systems failure so that we can understand and avoid such tragedy.. Well done and proud of you
I used to live in Missoula, Montana and still spend a lot of time there. Those Gull people are *MONSTERS* and should be locked away for ever... And that was *before* this incident. F those people. They deserve no mercy.
Diver here. When I did my Advanced Open Water certification dives, I was one-on-one with the instructor. Can't imagine what this "instructor " was thinking. I have dived in Florida, Grand Cayman and Cozumel, I have never performed a dive without being buddied up before we ever get in the water. So sorry for her family. Prayers sent for peace and comfort.
The more I hear about this, the more I am convinced that multiple people need to go to jail. Having an emergency plan is something you need as part of Rescue Diver, let alone being a DM or Instructor. Holy hell this makes me angry.
I am a PADI divemaster taught by the best Master Diver Instructor ever, Mr. Barry Smyda. Barry allowed me to hover around a class, searching for any student in the slightest distress. My question is, where was this instructor's Divemasters ? For those that don't know, Divemasters are unpaid volunteers, that love our sport. I'm so sorry for this young lady, that she trusted an instructor that never should have been teaching.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Thanks. I certified open water while stationed on Okinawa. Price was $ 35.00 . One of the best decisions I ever made. My sincere thanks to the Okinawan people for sharing their island with our Marines. Naui 1971
As a rescue diver would an inflation hose you could insert up a sleeve be helpful vs trying a regulator to do your sleeve inflation? Kind of like the type I use to inflate tires etc?
Diver here, and occasional camper in Glacier National Park. Lake McDonald's low temperature and extreme depth are not to be taken lightly, especially for less experienced divers not educated on the extra dangers that these conditions pose. God console the relatives of this poor girl. This should have been prevented with proper training and practice, and especially the proper equipment. No way to offload already excessive weights that were unreachable for release, inadequate equipment condition inspection, no provision to inflate the dry suit to eliminate squeeze, no lamp in a totally dark environment, no dive partner for help or rescue, deep and freezing conditions, no hand signal training, no provision for communication with local rescue services, a recipe for disaster.
About your method with the blowing air in the wrist seal... I think my first instinct as a buddy would be to detach my own inflator hose and attach it to my buddy's valve, then do a controlled direct ascent. Now, of course I already know that we have the same type of connectors, but do you see any other reason not to try that first?
I'm a British Sub-Aqua Club Advanced Diver (that's way beyond PADI Advanced Open Water!) and Open Water Instructor. I'm also certified as a PADI MSDT (Master SCUBA Diver Trainer). I have 1000's of dives & have trained lots of students through both organisations. In the UK, of necessity, we KNOW dry suit diving. Assuming that this is an accurate depiction of the events, it is a distressing watch. The immediate red flag for the Dive Centre should have been the student arriving on the beach with a dry suit that had no inflator hose. It said three things right off the bat. 1. The student had not been trained in the use of dry suits. 2. The student had NEVER dived with that suit before. 3. The Dive site responsible Instructor had not quizzed or briefed the young woman with regard to dry suit diving. She should not have been allowed to enter the water. That in my view was an instance of gross negligence. All that weight (apparently non-detachable) added to the young girl, if true, was simply criminal. This was a PADI Dive centre, a huge number of PADI standards were obviously broken. The Dive centre people appear to had been responsible for massive negligent failures and incompetence.. Your various comments are on point. Blowing air up the arm, may work, but will only provide as much lift that suit will hold. However, I have tried this in a pool long ago. As the volume built up in the suit and the body went vertical, the air simply burped out via the neck seal. That was with a membrane suit with latex wrist seals. It would be hard to get the hose past my neoprene suit cuff seals. There's no substitute for having the right gear and having it set up correctly. AND Training, training, practice, practice, practice. Throughout my career, I have never taken a student on an open water dive with a dry suit, without fully preparing them in advance. That includes in water familiarisation in a safe environment ( a swimming pool). There are videos of a young girl's first open water dry suit sessions, with me in a fresh water quarry, on my channel. Feel free to quote me. Regards Tony Dwyer
Hi, Tony. Thanks for the great comment, and input on the emergent drysuit inflation. If neck burping did occur and I needed more lift to save that person's life, I'd let the victim invert and send them up feet first.
This is a hart breaking story. Thank you for bringing it to public in a clear and appropriate manner. I hope justice is done and the family may find peace in the loss of Linnea. As a professional Diver, I am appalled that an instructor and dive center would allow this many failures to occur and still attempt a dive. Please everyone dive safe and dive smart.
A little background on Lake McDonald. It’s the largest lake in Glacier National Park. It is located in Flathead County, in my home State of Montana. Lake McDonald is approximately 10 miles long, and over a mile wide and 772 feet deep. It fills a valley formed by a combination of erosion and glacial activity. It was formed when an extent Volcano blew it’s guts out, millions of years ago. Lake McDonald lies at an elevation of 4,153 feet and is on the west side of the Continental Divide. Going-to-the-Sun Road parallels the lake along its southern shoreline. The surface area of the lake is 8,823 acres.
I used to dive extensively in the Puget Sound, always with one or more trusted buddies, and always strictly by the book. I went on one trip sponsored by an owner/instructor of a dive shop and it was a complete cluster, something like this event, except fortunately no one was hurt. One day, we left on a boat and did three dives. I foolishly left my dive table behind and it turned out that no one, not even the instructor had a dive table with them. I knew that we were safe but getting close to the limit after the third dive, and the instructor decided to do a fourth dive to 80'. I convinced my buddy that if we dove, we go no deeper than 30 feet. Everyone except my buddy and I grossly exceeded their dive limits. It was very fortunate that the dive tables are conservative and there were no casualties. There were no more commercially sponsored dive trips for me - I only dive with people I know and can trust.
i dont know about diving, but if youre weighted down with lead, you cant drop how are you supposed to swim back up? Was she supposed to crawl along the bottom to get back out? I dont understand the lead thing
When diving you wear a BCD (Buoyancy Control Device) it's the vest you see divers wearing. It can be inflated and deflated at your will to help you ascend, descend or maintain neutral buoyancy so you can cruise around at the same depth. Wearing a weight belt is standard practice.
Hello, former dive shop owner here. Brooks dry suits are rock solid. Mine has around 1,000 dives on it and not showing any signs of wear. Brooks are favoured by local fish farm commercial divers because of the ability to repair it with glue. We often see suits come in for servicing that has 50+ glue patches on it.
Hi Henry, thanks for adding to the conversation. As a Brooks user, is there anything special/proprietary about their inflator hose connection, or just usual BC connection?
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo their primary valve supplier was, and probably still is, Sitech. My suit has them. Obviously Sitech supplies valves to many suit manufacturers and I can’t think of any documented incidents of valve failure due to design flaw or malfunction. In this particular young lady’s situation, the lack of a drysuit hose, should have already been a called dive. As a total side note, Brooks did make make adventure suits for kayaking at one time. . They do not have valves. They are also very different suits. While the suit does have a waterproof zipper and latex seals, it was made from a thin tri or dual laminated material. It has no insulation value. This would have been recognized as an incorrect suit for a diver by most dive professionals.
Retired NAUI IT/AAUS DSO here. I discourage dry suits until about 100 post training dives. Above 50 F they’re unnecessary complications. The negligence and disregard shown in this incident by the shop and the instructor are hard to believe. Part of the story mentions diving for the University of North Carolina Marine Biology. Was this a UNC sanctioned dive?
Good video covering a tough subject. As a PADI instructor i can confirm there is a perfect storm of Instructor and dive center negligence that lead to this poor girls death. I hope they are held responsible and other shops and instructors smarten up. I primarily teach in the great lakes and drysuit certifications are a major part of my certifications in a given year. This list of events is very hard to hear. I want to make a comment about your skill to inflate the drysuit through the wrist seal for a rescue. I personally feel like that may be counterintuitive. Breaking the seal will for sure let water in causing the diver to loose the bouyance they already had. It may allow some air in but i would debate the water coming in would out weigh the air getting trapped in the upper half of the suit. I think it would be better to just manually inflate their suit with their valve or in the event they are out of air, I as the rescuers could disconnect my own drysuit inflator hose and connect it to their suit. Cutting the BCD off of the diver could also be an option however it will cause a rapid accent but if the diver was out of air already it depends on their state to choose what is best to keep the rescuer safe during the recovery/accent.
HI MD. Thanks for your contribution of a measured and informed comment. I don't know if Bob had a drysuit, otherwise yiour suggestion is a good one. BC hose would also work...
I don’t know a lot about diving but if this was a cold water drowning, I wonder if she could have been revived if the dive place had, I don’t know, a way to quickly contact emergency services?
PADI Open Water Instructor certified - stopped excellent video at 9:14. Inexperienced open water cert student less than ten dives and they don’t perform a swimming pool functional check for familiarization for the victim!!?? Also- isn’t “dry suit” itself a separate cert ? Never owned one and don’t know only dove 1/4 inch wetsuits in west coast - the responsible parties are reckless and criminally negligent 🤮
I wonder if the technique mentioned at approx 18:30 would be possible in this case do to the fact of a tremendous suit squeeze thus hindering the ability to open a space at the wrist seal. Maybe with a knife it could be possible but this would of course compromise the suit..
There are alot of negligent dive centers. I went with one particular PADI 5-star dive center and i felt so unsafe on my dive that i opted to never go back
What a total CF! Thanks for the tip on rescuing an over-weighted drysuit diver by breaking a seal and injecting air from a reg. I've never heard that and it never would have thought of it when confronted with such a situation.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo I am not sure this is a really good idea. Opening a seal on a drysuit will flood it with water more likely than you will be able to inject a reasonable amount of gas. The only way you rescue a diver in open water is up so his squeeze will reduce with every meter of depth you lose. Any excess air you will inject will very likely escape from his neck seal when you ascend in an upright position. In technical dives when we exercise a rescue we deflate our own suit and bcd, deflate the diver that needs rescue suit as well, lie on top of the divers double tanks and control the ascent with his BCD while holding his regulator in his mouth with one hand and fixing his double tank valves with the elbows. Checking functionality of every piece of equipment is a must prior to decending (main and backup regulator, bcd in- and deflatability, suit in- and deflatability, lights, computer, knife, bubble check etc. etc)
If injected at a low point, water intrusion should be minimal, as with launching an SMB/lift bag. Even if some goes out neck (I agreed a possibility) would solve the immediate problem of squeeze, letting them be able to move arms to retrieve reg and reduce panic. I’d even be tempted to let the victim invert, feet filling with air, guaranteeing a trip to the surface. I do get your other points, but this would be my instinct in an emergent situation.
Please DO NOT open the seal/cuff on a drysuit to try and get air in while submerged. If you spend too long trying to do this, you risk flooding the drysuit and adding to your problems. This is not a standard procedure and is not advocated by any recognised dive organisation ( to my knowledge) . There were obviously multiple issues which led to this tragic loss of life. One lesson is that instructors are not perfect! If you’re not happy or feel uncomfortable with any aspect of dive safety (yours or others), call it out! Be prepared to abort the dive if things aren’t rectified.
Diver here... As I live/ dive in the tropics, I never had to even consider getting a drysuit. I knew with drysuits you need some kind of training, but I didn't know that drysuits are actually that complicated and that you need to do a whole course on how to use it before safely using it on a dive. I've learned a lot from this video, thanks for making it!
It's a short course, as I remember 2 pool sessions plus 2 in the open water. It isn't so complicated to use, but you now have something else to think about - your suit now has gas closed inside, which is compressed on descent, and vice versa expands on ascent.
A very sad tale , and all of it should never have happened , let alone been avoided. I teach drysuit diving , and this is wrong from the start and stayed that way right through to the very sad ending. My thoughts are with the family.
Would unzipping the drysuit help? I do understand that would probably mean hypothermia. I just wonder if unzipping the drysuit would instantly release the squeeze?
I can't finish watching this movie. I'm dry suit diver with maybe 15 dives in drysuit. I can't even imagine what she was feeling in that moment. I hope that this instructor is sitting now in jail.. Prayers sent to her family
So tragic. This kind of hit home for me as she is/was the same age as my oldest son. I can't imagine, and don't want to ever know. My thoughts and prayers are w her family, and may God give them the strength they need. The level of utter INCOMPETENCE that went on is astounding! Someone had _better_ be going to prison for this. Unbelievable!
I know enough about diving to be dangerous, but I do know that 45 pounds of dive weight is what a hard hat diver uses for ballast when welding to keep you from bouncing around in a swell.
I am glad you mentioned that because you are correct. When we did commercial dives in dry suits (usually Uni Suits, not Mark Vs), we would usually wear over-the-shoulder harness weight belts with about 45/55 pounds of lead. The belt was always, always, the last piece of gear donned as it would be the first piece ditched in an emergency.
I trained in a club system in the UK, all cold water diving - in fact my first "outside" dive was done in a lake in November in a semidry - it was pretty chilly and there was an ice diving course going on at the same time :-)! I did buy a drysuit, made for UK diving well aware from the club and my friends of what could happen all the first few dives were done in shallow water carefully whilst getting used to it. Years later as an instructor/dive leader I used to take warm water divers who wanted to join on checkout dives in semidry's they used to strugle with bouyancy control. Simlarly new drysuit dives would always be done in very controlled conditions and careful weighting and planning, we always tried to emphasise safety to set an example and instill in our students/new divers something about nature of diving and its inherent risks and responsiblity(in our system diving would often be as a buddy pair alone - only practical system in the UK). It would never have occurred to me that someone would overweight a diver so much or take someone diving without a suit feed, I'm absolutely incredulous that anyone would or how someone could not feel some sense of responsibility?... words literally fail me. My heart goes out to Bob, such a difficult situation to find himself in and to try and figure out under pressure, so sorry for him and honestly think he did absolutely everything that could be expected of him under the circumstances, horrible situation to be in. I like the idea of your regulator under the wrist seal but at depth in the murk/kicked up bottom with cold hands/gloves potentially latex seals I'm not sure it would be as practical in practice as it sounds, still at some point you have little to loose. Poor Linnea she sounds like an amazing person, thinking of her family, going to have to stop now. (Sorry for the long post deleted it once because too much stuff, but now seem to have written it again, needed to vent I think!) (By the way I'd guess the temperature was fahrenheit rather than centigrade - 43C is toasty!).
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Tom. I hate it when I put myself into writing a comment, then I somehow delete and can't get myself to reconstruct the whole thing again. Cheers! J
Your way is way the correct way, Tom. Ex warm water instructor here. Pennies get tight in dive outfits, and corners can start to get cut. Sometimes resulting in poor instruction and poor kit. Something I learnt in my own training was to research the heck out of any new skill I was doing before even registering for a course. Do every possible bit of training or study before going near the water. Saves a lot of tears and cash.
I’m not a diver, but I have to say you covered this event with the utmost of integrity and responsibility. It’s horrifying to think what Linnea went through. And Bob!
This is all about the weight, way too heavy - Though one thing that is puzzling me as a diver with over 1,000 dives...What BCD allows for 10+ pound weights that are not removable?
Hi, Jeff. Thanks for taking the time to comment. My impression is the weights were zippered into the BC pockets intended for other storage, lights, SMB, knife, etc.
Halcyon has a 6 lbs plate plus 4 pound 1st stage. I dive tropical waters with a 4/3 suit and no weights with a aluminum 80. I'm negative at full and neutral at low psi.
@@rustybuckets9580 I realized I was a little freakish when I could sit on the bottom of a pool in just my 4/3. It came in handy for classes when I was the rescue dummy. I have experienced what this woman went through while diving tahoe - rubicon point in my dry suit. Its a 1500' wall and we needed to adjust weight for altitude. I dropped in with 15 lbs and floated fine at the surface. Once descending I hit our max bottom of 60' and I heard my BC start blowing. I was still dropping like a rock and started freaking out. Around 90 my first reaction was to grab the wall to stop the decent. My first reaction was to grab a belt but I caught myself freaking out and stopped by grabbing the wall. Once stopped, I started inflating my suit for buoyancy. Not the right thing to do, but I ended up using my suit as a BC to finish the dive. Second dive, I switched to 6 lbs of total weight.
This is mindblowing. Such a sad case. Hope the divecenter will close for good and these 'instructors' will never work in the dive industry again. My heart goes out the the family. Thank you Jim for the video, all videos where you analyze accidents will help me alot when I go for the instructor course next January :)
This was hard to watch, such reckless negligence. She never had a chance, overweighted, no inflator, no buddy, uncertified instructor, this is clearly criminal negligence and endangerment from the dive center and the employees present. So sad...
While reading the legal filing last week, I got angrier and angrier with every line I read. Seeing you go over it gets me riled up all over again. The amount of negligence, overconfidence and sheer stupidity that went into this situation is unbelievable. Breaking just about any one link in this chain of incompetence would have saved this girl's life. Aside from the obvious and deserved legal hell for the 'dive center' and the employees involved, I'm really wondering if the points about PADI will hold. Their entire business model appears to be 'set the bar as low as possible, without making it possible to be held accountable'. That of course doesn't mean that all PADI instructors set the bar that low, but it does allow for this level of incompetence to exist within their organisation. My guess is they'll throw the 'dive center' under the bus and weasel their way out of it, but I'm hoping that at the least it'll make them re-evaluate exactly how low they want the bar to be.
Ron, thanks so much for the thoughtful and informed comment. Let's both hope that you're right and this will be a learning moment at the very least, and culpability for those deserving.
At what point does a community hold an authority to account? I have absolutely no knowledge about diving but I'm assuming that PADI issues licenses or certifications. When does the diving community confront the PADI organization for letting them down? Collective professional standards?
This diving company should be forced to pay an additional punitive amount in the $100 million range, the dive master / instructor should go tp prison. Manslaughter is a crime.
Oh gosh, hope that was not your takeaway. I did say I'd personally struggle with some dark thoughts in this case, if that were one of my sons and the facts turn out to be as presented.
Shocking and infuriating reading about this. What's not covered here is the instructor lied to investigators and the video exposing all of this only emerged months later.
I can't even imagine. I'm a rescue diver with just under 800 dives in my logbook, and as it happens I dive a Brooks Duratex suit like the one Linnea had purchased. I accidentally dropped once with my drysuit whip detached. I knew I was only dropping to 30ft so I just endured the squeeze until I touched down and reattached my hose. But even at that depth, I could barely move and was covered in bruises afterwards. I can't imagine what this poor girl went through. :/
This is why divers need to have confidence to speak up. If you see something wrong, scream and shout. Demand accountability up front before you get in the water even if it ends your dive dry. She couldn't have known better. The instructors couldn't be more negligent. Maybe another diver couldn't told her not to get in the water... So sad...
Update on this case (6/21): ua-cam.com/video/F4yvz6akmQg/v-deo.html
Please consider donating, as I have, to the Linnea Foundation, a link that was provided by her mom:
givebutter.com/linnea
Your legal document link goes to a file oh your hard drive not a website. You might want to fix that up.
@Mike's Big Adventures Good catch...fixed, thanks!
Yeah that dive instructor there needs to go to prison for murder. Do you know back in the day there was a nurse who used to kill people by injecting them with insulin. And listening to the decisions that were made for her really makes me to believe that maybe he is a murderer and he did this on purpose because I just can’t believe he thought she needed 44 pounds of weight without inflator hose
@@darkmxhishot7475 Mate, I have WITNESSED PADI instructors loading up their patents with excess amount of lead in one of my favourite lake. One little Asian woman I saw had over 24KG of lead on her OW course dives. DOn't get me started on PADI.....
That was horrible to hear about. I'm just in shock.
As a diver with 44 years of experience this sounds like criminal negligence to me. No one with that little experience should have done this dive under these conditions
the people who even certified her were the real criminals!! who can't figure out to quickly remove a weight belt must never ever go diving! she had no business being in a tub with dive gear on !
33 years /20 as a retired instructor and this thing is beyond neglect and a case can easily be made. Prosecutor just needs to discuss it with PADI or any experienced Instructor. A basic OW diver from any agency shouldn't do anything listed in these documents let alone in the presence of an Instructor. Preaching to the choir but this just makes my blood boil. PADI may be named but this person violated so many S&P there free from any responsibility Im sure. Weight in a pocket is day one shit to never even consider.
@@Vmaxfodder She had no weight belt - they placed the weights in pockets. So her helper could not manage to remove the weights.
@@Vmaxfodder Did you listen? She had no weight belt and 44lbs of weight were *zipped* into her dry suit pockets by her dive masters assistant.
@@annabizaro-doo-dah as a X diver? I would never even tried That! I was diving with an Ignoramus once. He would not drop the very heavy thing he found! So I grabbed a hold of him by the tank, and went up. The dummy thought I was trying to turn off his air, and trying to fight him for it. It was not till we were out of the water that he realized he was almost about to die. Never dive with Scarrey Gary from Alaska! I would ever dive like they did! Her dive instructions/ instructor is more at fault than the ignoramus people diving with her!
Diver here. This is so tragic. For an instructor from any agency to allow a student to go diving in a drysuit with no drysuit training let alone not having a low pressure hose to regulate buoyancy in the drysuit is truly incomprehensible. They KNOW she only has 5 or 6 dives. They KNOW she hasn't been diving in a year and a half. So, they tell her to buy a drysuit and then go twilight diving with none of the students having lights in 38 degree water. The level of negligence here is incomprehensible.
So much wrong here, right Lehmann?!
Also grossly overweighted and the instructor not having the certification to teach the course. There's so many wrongs and the dive industry needs a clean up from these "cowboys". Also the dive center hiring a person that doesn't have the proper training. It's a piäure tragedy.
I know nothing bit trying to get a top job with a nuclear reactor!!
Tragically it seems no one is held legally accountable for this.
@@Musiknird reading everything, the course was adv open water, which the instructor was certified to teach. Might not of been drysuit certified, but that wasn't the course. It was one of the failures. Being in a drysuit without proper training and equipment (missing hose). Assigned Buddy and Buddy checks should of caught that.
Years ago when I took my PADI open water at my local dive shop, I signed up for a dry suit speciality course directly afterward.
However during the dry suit skills course (first skills portion in a pool) with the dive shop's gear and neoprene dry suit, in the first couple pool dives I found that the dry suit leaked at the neck seal and the suit filled with water and also lost air at the neck seal.
I notifed the dive master and he used electrical tape wraped around my neck on the outside of the neck seal in an effort to stop the leak, when I questioned him about it safety he said dont worry they do it all the time.
On the last pool dive I was barely able to climb out of the pool because of the amount of water in the suit!
The remaining course dives were to be open water dives (ocean), I dropped out because of their dry suit, I told the dive master I would not go in the ocean with a leaky dry suit and that I would buy my own suit and return for the remaining part of the course , he tried to pursuade me that they would get me a different suit, I still said no and then he said "ok its your choice".
I never returned and my advice to all divers is that if anything doesnt seem correct or you feel unsure dont dive! Also buy you own gear, used is ok if certified, but I reccomend new, your life depends on it.
You were wise not to trust ANY of their suits.
Wow! Thank God you listened to your instincts. Shame on them for not treating that as a huge safety issue! Terrifying in retrospect. Peace.
There’s no room for error with safety gear. None.
I couldn’t agree more with you my friend!!!
😒 you know neck seals are not that hard to replace !? do you drama much ?
For that dive center trying to throw Bob under the bus when he did everything possible you can ask from a diver, but their incompetence made his attempt to save her life close to impossible. It infuriates me!
Yes, he put himself in serious danger trying to help her, despite this completely incompetent instructor. I hope he is okay and does not feel guilty. He went above and beyond.
Imagine how many incidents like this went under reported, falsely reported, or covered up before the advent of go-pro type devices. Also, I think it showed great respect to add the 1 min of silence at the end of the video.
The scuba conspiracy has gone too far
They covered this one up too, lied to investigators tainting the coroners report. Then the video emerged months later and exposed their negligence.
A lot of accidents are like that. The person who makes the accident tries to cover it up
Gosh this is the first time I've ever heard of coverups of diving accidents. But then again usually the dive instructors and dive centers actually know what they're doing. A truly tragic loss...
Second death because of this shop
Reading the legal document makes me furious. This so called instructor let that poor girl die a horrible death while her classmate tried desperately to help her. Only to then go and blame the student that tried to save the victim for her death. What bullshit
Yes, and the idiots loaded the young lady up with enough lead to sink a small ship. This is a terrible situation and the loss of a young life that could easily of been prevented.
Reading through that document I have a hard time finding anything the instructor did NOT do wrong.
Ain't that the truth...
They didn't go straight from the bar after doing shots to the dive site. :-|
@@michaelatherton5761 … That we KNOW of! ☹️
Including lying to investigators and the family for months.
As an instructor I tell students not to get in a drysuit unless they’ve had a drysuit course. If I even buddy with anyone and they have a drysuit my first question is about how much drysuit time they have. If they say they haven’t had any or the course I’m out. This was an avoidable fatality. Not even an accident. 44 lbs on a small person plus cylinder?! What were they thinking?
Ponderous, Dedan, isn't it...
Sounds like they used some table or something and weighted her as if the suit was inflated. And what thermal protection do most dry suits provide if NOT inflated??
PS: I only did open water basic PADI by Vancouver Island, there were some people on it doing dry suit first dives etc. That is the sad extent of my experience.
It was a bit of a mess, my rental suit at the time had issues, as did some of the dry suits. Luckily I was able to borrow a wet suit from one of the dry suit students, I was underweight and struggled to leave the surface for quite a while, but the seal deciding to play with me (unbeknownst to me, but entertaining the other students) and seeing dolphins afterward while on the way back on the dive boat was great.
especially not knowing how to get a #$@! weight belt off ! just unforgivable to let her go diving !! they had NO BUSINESS giving her a certification whatsoever!
@@Vmaxfodder check the vid again. She did not have a weight belt at all the weights were in her bcd and suit pockets.
@@Thisone95 jimminy crickets!! it was suicide!! how can people be that crazy to use that setup ?!!
17:40 - My heart breaks for Linea, and for Bob. Bob was just trying to do a dive. His daughter decided against it for whatever reason so he buddies up with Linea only to witness this young girl die despite doing everything he possibly could to help.
That is such a sad, horrific, and traumatic event that will stay with him for the rest of his life. And then for the dive shop to attack him, tried to lay blame on him for their F up.....smh.....I can't imagine the internal h×ll he's fighting.
Bob, you're an amazing man that I believe God put in Linea's life so that she didn't d×e alone. I know you wish you could've saved her, but at least she d×ed knowing somebody was trying to fight for her. I can only imagine that d×ath would've been more of a h×ll alone.
I pray that in time you can make peace with what happened.
G doesn’t exist
Oh yeah god has a plan for everything. Her death wouldn’t be complete without bobs presence.
My prayers are with you
@@tiffprendergast incredible you felt compelled to post this! Smh shame on you.
@@tammyburke9453 I'm sorry, but we're talking about someone's *death* here. For people who _aren't_ brainwashed into religious beliefs, saying something like "I believe God put you here so that she didn't have to die alone" is not only offensive and uncomforting, but also insulting and shallow.
Shame on *YOU.* I can't believe I actually have to tell you this, but *you* are the @$$hole here, not the person protesting the OPs shallow, meaningless, and utterly offensive final paragraph of his post.
My heart just dropped when I heard that they put 44 lbs of lead on her, knowing that she can't inflate her dry suit. Those people killed her, literally. And they are so negligent that they missed multiple opportunities to save her.
I agree wholeheartedly. I'm 6' 2" and weigh around 200 pounds and have never carried more than 32 pounds of lead when wearing a neoprene dry suit. All other things aside, the fact that this poor girl was horribly overweighted should have been obvious to the so called instructor. What happened is nothing short of negligence.
As a non diver, putting 44 lbs of freakin lead on a young girl makes zero sense when wearing a dry suit with no buoyancy. I mean shit dude. A little bit of common sense goes a long way. This is the first time Ive heard this story and I honestly cried not only because she was so young and fruitful but she just seemed like a huge positive contributor to earth
I've never dived and I'm not familiar with technical things. I see many comments regarding the weights in the pockets, why would be that an issue? Can't one take them out of the pockets? And if that wasn't standard procedure, is it known what was the rationale/explanation of the instructorsfor doing so? Thanks.
@@joane241. with that much weight and not enough way to add bouncy. she will sink like a rock the moment she is in the water. She simple don't have enough time to react, and she is a brand new diver in training, she is not going to know how to deal with it. 2. Most of her weight is not even ditchable because they put the weigh in her dry suit. This is a very predictable disaster, I can't believe they just let it happen. These people are murders, there is no doubt in this.
@@carinazhao5995 Thanks for answering. Why wouldn't the weight be ditchable, if it was in the pocket, can't one just take it out of the pocket?
At the moment I saw that they "stuffed" weights into her suit, it was evident that the outcome would be horrible. It's like they just told her to pick out her own equipment and tossed her off the edge. Gross negligence.
Poor bob….I really hope that guy is still okay and doesn’t feel some form of survivors guilt. Can’t imagine being in that scenario of trying to help someone and having to bail to save yourself.
For sure...what a negative experience!
Thank you for sharing this sad story. I hope your information saves someone’s life in the future. I am trained in group night kayak safety instructions. I just purchased a used dry suit. I plan on using my suit to pan for gold in a creek behind my cabin. You were very kind, understanding, and empathetic in presenting the information. I know Bob must be suffering because his daughter is so close in age. I am researching the use of my suit, safety, and precautions...and yes, inflation, and weight release options...
@@thewindyone5228 THanks so much for adding your thoughts, Gail. Best of luck on your continued adventure. Tragic events like this are an apportunity to stay sharp and vigilant...have a great adventure.
Seriously… the person responsible was blaming and shaming Bob on a scuba safety forum. No doubt he’s endured torment… such a nightmare for this poor girl, the other students, and her family!
@@EricHart1 Saw some of those posts out there...
I wish I hadn't watched this, let alone read the document.
I'm still angry several hours later. People need jail time.
I'm right there with you, Downlink. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
I had to stop watching halfway through. The 40 lbs of lead on a girl was a death wish. They didn't do a buoyancy check in the shallows? You're right: angry.
I'm a warm water diver who got certified in 1981. I wear a dive skin, and use 7 pounds of weight. I know nothing about diving with a dry suit, but 40 pounds sounds excessive. The fact that they allowed her to dive without a dive buddy, and the fact that they allowed her to dive without the proper equipment blows my mind. I'm not even sure I agree with letting her take an advanced course with so few dives under her belt. But, I do agree with Downlink...the dive operators need jail time. Lots of it.
@@thunderpuppy6719 i run 45lbs with dry rap, with a 120 tank. But on purposes as I'm on a deep water search team an decent a little quicker then most do. Usually drop 20 at 70. Remember she was in fresh water not salt also. This is a horrible situation, but honestly its your life to protect in the end an there is plenty of free advice that should be researched before going with or without a instructor. You read a driver manual before getting a drivers license. You should read up on equipment your using before using it. Just my opinion, but I think she jumped the gun only having 5 dives previous anyhow. Probably never experienced any malfunctioning what so ever an was completely helpless on any option to save herself.
@@davidwalczak1297 People like us, read a cars' manual before driving - or at least press every button to see what it does and test every function. But most people do not! They just get in and drive!
They use this same thinking in the rest of their lives and leave it to others to teach/guide them.
Dive centres (as well as every other professional outfit, in whatever industry) have a duty of care to these people and need to watch over them.
I think it's the fact she booked a course here, it was for the dive centre to look out for her and guide her!
As important as an inflator hose is for a drysuit - the dive should have NEVER taken place. Add the dangerous way of weighting (and the excess weight) - and you have an accident waiting to happen. This is all on the instructor, who seems inadequate in many ways. I can't imagine how that instructor got certified....
Correct me if I am wrong but the way I see it - not being a diver - there was no accident. She just went down there and died as a direct result of the way ahe was equipped. As far as I can tell, there was no way for her to get out alive.
@@tolvajakos In hindsight, this as a buddy:
follow her down, let her breath through your octopus, get her out of her jacket, dumping all the gear. Check her drysuit pockets for weights, dump them, then ascent.
If you still need more buoyancy, inflate your SMB, disconnect your inflator from your BCD (you can inflate manually and on ascend you only have to deflate anyway) and connect and inflate her drysuit (if possible - apparently the valve was mounted). Next step: dump your weights as well.
Difficult to accomplish, but doable if everyone stays calm and work together. However, not with the other person panicking.
Guy was openwater junior, I don't blame him.
100% the instructor is to blame and utterly incompetent. That said, Linnea should have known better and aborted the dive. She was already Open Water Certified and would have noticed the missing weight check and buddy check (and the missing buddy). She could maybe have known that there is a drysuit diver specialty for a reason.
Authority gradient is an issue, and she was very young, not so easy to speak up. Guys, if your buddies or instructors are being incompetent, speak up and abort. Sort the legal stuff out afterwards. Not worth your life.
Lawyer here. This is infuriating.
The fact that an earlier fatality had occurred in relation to Gull Dive and that this information wasn't prominently available. FFS, tragic and negligent.
Holy. Shit.
I barefoot at 43 mph and crash with my drysuit. It has no inflator..inflator? Haha this is stupid. She is responsible to lose her weight. She was certified...period
I can bend my elbow..this is bullshit
Low IQ guy doing video
So she is on surface falling to next level... okuuuay
I tried diving in the PNW, and in my 6-8 dives(Including certification dives) I saw two uncontrolled ascents thanks to dry suit misuse. It is a piece of equipment that demands a ton of respect, I can't imagine letting a new person dive with so little understanding of it at all.
Debbie Snow has been on the scuba pages blaming the other student. It’s incredibly frustrating. Her gross negligence is criminal; the way she has acted afterwards should result in prison time.
I saw that, Cameron. I was thinking to include screenshots of some of her posts, but decided against it.
It's so gross and she has zero self-perception and is obviously a danger to herself and to others. Nothing makes me as furious as these ignorant people in the dive industry the break the standard, has zero respect, doesn't respect limits and not putting safety first. I've seen way too many of them and I hope she goes to prison.
Blame the student??- if the student had the skill to handle the situation they wouldn't be a student.
So she commits manslaughter, shows no remorse and tries to blame a student. Disgusting.
Ewww I'm disgusted. I think I have just developed a hate for someone I don't know, she is VILE!!!
So was this a drysuit specialty class or an AOW class?Either was the instructor was grossly negligent . From what I got out of this video it was an AOW class.Who in their right mind would let a diver take the AOW class in a drysuit for which she had no training or certification. Why would they have put this poor girl in a recreational BCD and then load on 40 pounds of weight that far exceeded the lift capacity of the BCD.Why would they let a diver who had no training in the use of a drysuit get in the water with no means to inflate the suit.What kind of instructor allows a student to get into the water with defective gear?I generally am against lawsuits but this was not a dive accident.It's manslaughter and people should be held accountable for this poor girls death.
Thank you for the salient comments, Steve. I think the two sides might debate what the actual purpose/status of that dive was.
Everyone involved in this young woman's death deserves some serious street justice. No courts. Just swift justice as determined by the family.
@@Al556 If it were one of my boys, and these circumstances were confirmed, I'd be harboring some dark thoughts...
Dry suits were never given much concern. BSAC back in the early 90’s never gave instruction or built a class around it. You just bought one and used it and the sports diver syllabus was the same regardless of wet, semi or dry. I struggled in mine trying to hone the correct weight and stopping air migration everywhere I did not want it.
RIP Linnea Mills and prayers for her loved ones tragic loss.
I’ve been diving for 40 years and am a former OW, Advanced and Rescue Instructor and have done Stage Deco, and I would not dive a dry suit without being fully trained in a pool before going OW. I’m in North Florida and don’t dive dry suits even in my Deco stuff. A 5mm Farmer John and Jacket is enough, but I’ve thought about it to extend the diving season, but the idea that someone allowed this woman with almost no experience to dive a dry suit without training is criminal.
I got no diving experience or knowledge, but I wana ask why a dry suit is more dangerous than a wetsuit?
@@jamespalmer5819 because it’s filled with air. A wetsuit increases buoyancy but it’s a known quantity. If you’re too buoyant in a wetsuit, you simply won’t sink. In a dry suit, you’re constantly adding air and without the training to know how to manage it, it can get away from you. You have to learn how to manage the increased buoyancy or risk an uncontrolled ascent. You can even get uncontrollably upside down because air fills the legs pulling you up by your feet. Training and practice are critical to all phases of diving.
@@bigrich6750 okay cool thanks for the reply 👍
@@bigrich6750 Terrible accident but why is the manufacturer being sued?
@@meh9682 probably because they have deep pockets. If the manufacturer did not require that the shop provide training to end users then they may be liable. I would think that every manufacturer would have training guidelines that they provide to shops. If they didn’t do that or something like that, could be why. Also, there may have been a defect in the suit. I don’t know.
I can’t even comprehend this. Horrifying beyond words. Someone definitely deserves to go to jail for this. Gross negligence and complete incompetence are severe understatements
I don’t think I have watched a gut wrenching video on UA-cam that was this heartbreaking. Thank you for explaining what happened. I feel terrible for this girl and her family.
Thank, you, Brett. It is a heartbreaker, and I know it was long vid for some…but I felt I could spare 22 mins of attention for this poor girl. Appreciate the support.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo We lost our young adult daughter to illness in 2017. We were able to be there for her. I am absolutely gutted for the family.
Gutted.
@@suestoons So very sorry for your loss.
@@suestoons Sorry for your lost .
I am certified YMCA/PADI and I feel you on how difficult this must have been for you even to discuss. What a nightmare that poor girl. I only dove once in freshwater for cave diving in Florida and can’t imagine why they would put that much weight on her. These guys had no idea what they were doing and should never have been training. The instructor is the Captain and therefore responsible. What a cluster of mistakes!
From Germany we follow this case and we send our deepest condolences to the family.
A gross case of negligence that we hope sees justice. These instructors have the poor girls blood in their hands.
Thanks for checking in from Germany, JM...
This make me so sad. She was set up for failure. I dive in the cold waters of Maine and I have felt the squeeze. It is extremely scary and nerve racking. There is a reason you should go through classes for every advancement in diving especially drysuits. My condolences to her family. Thank you for sharing this story
I’m a Padi cert diver with 100 dives, mostly resort dives in the Caribbean/ Gulf.. This lady dropped like a rock to the bottom. Buoyancy control is everything in diving, It’s critical. In flying an Airplane, air speed and lift is everything. Terrible, Awful and Tragic! This girl probably weighed only 110 lbs. Half her weight, without dual- buoyancy. Crazy again.
My condolences to the family.
This is one reason why I use a high volume BC, and I have used it to lift a diver with a BC failure. And I am very glad to have had an instructor who was an ex-DDay frogman, who deeply impressed us with safety procedures.
A number of years ago, a diver friend invited me to go drysuit diving with him. He had spare drysuit that he would loan me. Despite being an experienced atlantic diver, I had never used a drysuit.
I thanked him for his offer, but said no thanks. Without any training, it was a no deal.
What a horrible death she must have suffered, people should got to jail for this wrongful death !
This beautiful girl and her family. I'm just heartbroken for them. Praying for their broken hearts to be mended
WTF! what a needless tragedy. This place needs to be closed and all held accountable.
As you say a drysuit is another system to manage when diving. It definately adds complexity to a dive. My advice to people is don't take on more than one new skill at a time. Baby steps...and practice are advisable when learning diving.
I can't imagine the squeeze you would get attempting to dive in a drysuit without the ability to add air. No experienced diver would allow a new drysuit diver to even consider it...instructor or not.
When putting on a course you can't expect a student "buddy" to be able to rescue another one of your students. It's great if they can but not so easy at depth in a stressful situation. Between the instructor and the dive master(s) they need to keep aware of the students and be on the look out for any signs of trouble.
We find ourselves in today agreement, Paul. The only positive result of incidents like this is to constantly remind me to stay sharp...always be looking to see what might happen and prevent.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Exactly. Look for students that show anxiety, even on shore before entering the water. These students deserve extra attention by divemasters and instructors alike. Expect them to have trouble and require assistance.
I’m not a diver, can you please explain what the “squeeze” is. Also, in my thinking, wouldn’t adding air to your suit also feel like being “squeezed”? Thanks.
Water is more dense the deeper you go. At the surface you have one atmosphere of pressure compressing your body. Every 33' the atmospheric pressure increases by one. I.e. at 33' you have 2 atmospheres pressing on you, 3 atmospheres at 66' and so on.
This water pressure compresses air. So whatever volume of air you have in your drysuit at the surface is cut it half when you reach 33'. As a diver it feels like the air has been sucked out of your suit, kind of like you're being vacuum sealed. The suit is designed so air can be added to increase the air pressure in the suit to return the air volume to a comfortable level.
The squeeze you feel as a diver is uncomfortable at first, likely painful if you went deeper. It would constrict your breathing and restrict your movement. Undoubtedly it would contribute to feelings of panic at some point.
Listening to this not only makes me extremely pissed off, it damn near gives me a panic attack. As an “advanced” open water diver, with around 60 dives, I still find myself uncomfortable in the water at times and I cannot begin to imagine this happening to me. Although I have a kindergarten level of knowledge and experience as a diver, I would’ve aborted the dive and fired the instructor. PADI (in this case) owns some responsibility here too. All too often they just want those fees in their bank account and they don’t hold instructors & shops to account for their bad practices.
The “instructor” put this girl in an extremely deadly situation prior to entering the water and then he abandoned her directly after entering the water…this is homicide. The instructor used her enthusiasm and love of diving to take advantage of her for monetary gain. How can anyone be ready for an “advanced” course with under 20 dives? How can she send a student into the water during a freaking high-altitude NIGHT DIVE without a torch, no dry suit training, a non-functioning dry suit, and a literal anchor strapped to her? I don’t even have the words.
Ooh trust me. I have seen people with just OWC done go into AOWC. I did about 12 dives before I got my AOWC. I now have 22 dives and havent done rescue yet. I have seen people with less dives than me going for rescue diver course! It beats me as to how a novice can save others. Its just irresponsible on the part of the diver, the centre n PADI too for having such crap requirements.
This story broke me. My thoughts go out to Bob and Linnea’s family. Rest In Peace Linnea 💜
Tragic condolences to the family, I am happy to hear the family is ok with the idea of people learning from this tragedy. BItter as the event was your advice is what makes this death have value. Hopefully your advice and tips will save lives.
the additional weight sounds more like murder than negligence. Sad story.
Especially when it is not accessible to get rid of it if needed, as in this case. I do not dive, but how does one determine how much weight to use for a dive? And if instructor knows she cannot air up her suit, which I assume would give some buoyancy, so this much weight seems like a lot. It would be like her holding 5 and 1/2 gallon jugs of water while going down? Thank goodness for the other diver trying to assist her! Why didn't the leader go check on them, especially if rescue breathing was in progress? Too many things just don't make sense!
the weights are fine, but not being on a quick release belt is insane.
@@Chris_L034 That much weight on a small girl in a shell drysuit is ridiculous.
Murder is intentional. So no it's not.
yep
It is sad how she was destined to do great things, and seemed to be trying to do things the right way. Sadly with the wrong people. RIP young lady and my condolences to her family and friends. May this dive shop and person leading this dive, be shut down forever so they don't kill any more people. Sad and heartbreaking.
This is a clusterfuck. I am very saddened by this. Very depressing. I hope that these folks learn from this .
Welcome to the new age where no one is willing to take responsibility when they make a mistake. I hope people here go to prison.
History doesn’t hold up your statement….even a 100 years ago if you were poisoned working with radium you were told was “totally safe,” or got black lung as a miner, or had your hand cut off in a factory….everyone just shrugged, fired the worker, then got a new one. The radium workers was the most ridiculous case of a workplace causing death, and the business owners did hugely outrageous things (likely stealing bodies, claiming it was just coincidence 3 girls in their 20s had their lower jaws essentially fall off, threatening workers, and the workers who suffered horrible deaths got a pittance - and that was considered ground-breaking, because before they got nothing.
Much of the delay currently is that it is often very tricky to get the right person to blame….take the fertilizer explosion in Lebanon….is the fault of the Russian tanker that brought there and then left? Or the warehouse that stored it for years knowing it was dangerous? They wrote letter after letter to the local government saying it was unsafe and to move it, with the local government saying they didn’t have the funds. Or the fault of the nearby fireworks warehouse that caught on fire first, leading to the fertilizer exploding, as many buildings would (gas lines), etc. in a building fire? All of them? Not easy to tell.
Phil stop talking out of your ass. "Old man yells at moon" vibes here. Ahhh yes things are only bad now, not like back in the good ol days.
I’m crying, my heart is hurting for Linnea, her buddy, and the family. What an incredibly tragic story, and I pray the family gets the justice they so deserve. What heroic acts to try and save her by Linnea’s buddy.
Have not been in the water since I sold my dive shop, health reasons, this makes my chest ache. The arrogance of the entitled !!!!!!!!!!!!!! They murdered that child.
I've been wanting to start learning diving and PADI instructors are more common in my area. I was hesitant to read about diving incidents since I'm afraid I would be chickened out. But you explain the tragedy so well, it's both interesting and terribly awful how every time a fatal incident like this happens (and not just diving related) most of the time it's due to gross negligence from workers fatality to nuclear disaster. My friend told me my gear would be my lifeline and I guess this really drives it home. Scares me how as a student you're practically at the mercy of your instructor's competence. Awesome explanation, you've earned a new sub.
Many thanks for the view, comment and sub, Muffin. My best advice when seeking a dive instructor is to try and get advice from divers on recommended instructors in your area. If I had the choice, I'd personally go with a highly recommended/respected instructor, over choosing an agency fist, then see which instructors happen to be in my area. Best wishes on your adventure!
Oh my gosh that must’ve been so scary. My condolences to her and her family. Can’t imagine being her in that scenario. Training and certification is of the upmost importance when it comes to diving.
Unbelievable tragic!!! Please keep us posted on the ongoing suit.
This is a sad tragedy…..thank you for bringing more information out. I can tell it was very difficult for you to bring this out
Thanks, Ivory. Yes, it was a bit of a disturbing rabbit hole for me. Appreciate your support.
During the minute of silence I became acutely aware of my slow and effortless breathing, and the fact that Linnea was not afforded that "option" in her last minutes. May she be in peace. I hope that this video prevents anyone else from suffering this same fate; and that it may be a cautionary tale for other students and instructors.
Jim you handled a very difficult subject with a lot of respect. We know it's hard for the family, cannot imagine their pain but grateful for their contribution.
As divers we like to know the details of a systems failure so that we can understand and avoid such tragedy..
Well done and proud of you
Thank you David, for your comment and support.
This is just devastating. I am so thankful for the instructors that I had.
Good point. Let's all be thankful for the knowledgeable, attentive, inventive, adaptive, always-learning instructors out there.
I used to live in Missoula, Montana and still spend a lot of time there. Those Gull people are *MONSTERS* and should be locked away for ever... And that was *before* this incident. F those people. They deserve no mercy.
Diver here. When I did my Advanced Open Water certification dives, I was one-on-one with the instructor. Can't imagine what this "instructor " was thinking. I have dived in Florida, Grand Cayman and Cozumel, I have never performed a dive without being buddied up before we ever get in the water. So sorry for her family. Prayers sent for peace and comfort.
The more I hear about this, the more I am convinced that multiple people need to go to jail. Having an emergency plan is something you need as part of Rescue Diver, let alone being a DM or Instructor. Holy hell this makes me angry.
I'm right with you, Mike...
At my age/experience very little affects me, this story left me in tears.
I am a PADI divemaster taught by the best Master Diver Instructor ever, Mr. Barry Smyda. Barry allowed me to hover around a class, searching for any student in the slightest distress.
My question is, where was this instructor's Divemasters ?
For those that don't know, Divemasters are unpaid volunteers, that love our sport.
I'm so sorry for this young lady, that she trusted an instructor that never should have been teaching.
Agreed...this instructor's support was not well planned, nor utilized...
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Thanks. I certified open water while stationed on Okinawa. Price was $ 35.00 .
One of the best decisions I ever made.
My sincere thanks to the Okinawan people for sharing their island with our Marines.
Naui 1971
@@grumpycat4584 Oh, man, you are old-school, RK! Respect!
You're not unpaid as a divemaster but as a divemaster trainee.
@@Musiknird Today, perhaps. I helped with classes in the early nineties.
As a rescue diver would an inflation hose you could insert up a sleeve be helpful vs trying a regulator to do your sleeve inflation? Kind of like the type I use to inflate tires etc?
Diver here, and occasional camper in Glacier National Park. Lake McDonald's low temperature and extreme depth are not to be taken lightly, especially for less experienced divers not educated on the extra dangers that these conditions pose. God console the relatives of this poor girl. This should have been prevented with proper training and practice, and especially the proper equipment. No way to offload already excessive weights that were unreachable for release, inadequate equipment condition inspection, no provision to inflate the dry suit to eliminate squeeze, no lamp in a totally dark environment, no dive partner for help or rescue, deep and freezing conditions, no hand signal training, no provision for communication with local rescue services, a recipe for disaster.
About your method with the blowing air in the wrist seal...
I think my first instinct as a buddy would be to detach my own inflator hose and attach it to my buddy's valve, then do a controlled direct ascent.
Now, of course I already know that we have the same type of connectors, but do you see any other reason not to try that first?
I'm a British Sub-Aqua Club Advanced Diver (that's way beyond PADI Advanced Open Water!) and Open Water Instructor. I'm also certified as a PADI MSDT (Master SCUBA Diver Trainer). I have 1000's of dives & have trained lots of students through both organisations.
In the UK, of necessity, we KNOW dry suit diving.
Assuming that this is an accurate depiction of the events, it is a distressing watch.
The immediate red flag for the Dive Centre should have been the student arriving on the beach with a dry suit that had no inflator hose.
It said three things right off the bat.
1. The student had not been trained in the use of dry suits.
2. The student had NEVER dived with that suit before.
3. The Dive site responsible Instructor had not quizzed or briefed the young woman with regard to dry suit diving.
She should not have been allowed to enter the water.
That in my view was an instance of gross negligence.
All that weight (apparently non-detachable) added to the young girl, if true, was simply criminal.
This was a PADI Dive centre, a huge number of PADI standards were obviously broken.
The Dive centre people appear to had been responsible for massive negligent failures and incompetence..
Your various comments are on point.
Blowing air up the arm, may work, but will only provide as much lift that suit will hold.
However, I have tried this in a pool long ago. As the volume built up in the suit and the body went vertical, the air simply burped out via the neck seal. That was with a membrane suit with latex wrist seals.
It would be hard to get the hose past my neoprene suit cuff seals.
There's no substitute for having the right gear and having it set up correctly.
AND
Training, training, practice, practice, practice.
Throughout my career, I have never taken a student on an open water dive with a dry suit, without fully preparing them in advance. That includes in water familiarisation in a safe environment ( a swimming pool).
There are videos of a young girl's first open water dry suit sessions, with me in a fresh water quarry, on my channel.
Feel free to quote me.
Regards
Tony Dwyer
Hi, Tony. Thanks for the great comment, and input on the emergent drysuit inflation. If neck burping did occur and I needed more lift to save that person's life, I'd let the victim invert and send them up feet first.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Yup. As a last ditch option, it would at least get them to the surface. Where they might survive.
@@tonythedwvyer Agreed...
This is a hart breaking story. Thank you for bringing it to public in a clear and appropriate manner. I hope justice is done and the family may find peace in the loss of Linnea.
As a professional Diver, I am appalled that an instructor and dive center would allow this many failures to occur and still attempt a dive.
Please everyone dive safe and dive smart.
A little background on Lake McDonald. It’s the largest lake in Glacier National Park. It is located in Flathead County, in my home State of Montana. Lake McDonald is approximately 10 miles long, and over a mile wide and 772 feet deep. It fills a valley formed by a combination of erosion and glacial activity.
It was formed when an extent Volcano blew it’s guts out, millions of years ago. Lake McDonald lies at an elevation of 4,153 feet and is on the west side of the Continental Divide. Going-to-the-Sun Road parallels the lake along its southern shoreline. The surface area of the lake is 8,823 acres.
Interesting. Thanks for the info
@@williampierce4513 No problem, anytime. If you have any questions, just ask.
This is so tragic and so avoidable. My deepest condolences to Linnea’s family
I used to dive extensively in the Puget Sound, always with one or more trusted buddies, and always strictly by the book. I went on one trip sponsored by an owner/instructor of a dive shop and it was a complete cluster, something like this event, except fortunately no one was hurt. One day, we left on a boat and did three dives. I foolishly left my dive table behind and it turned out that no one, not even the instructor had a dive table with them. I knew that we were safe but getting close to the limit after the third dive, and the instructor decided to do a fourth dive to 80'. I convinced my buddy that if we dove, we go no deeper than 30 feet. Everyone except my buddy and I grossly exceeded their dive limits. It was very fortunate that the dive tables are conservative and there were no casualties. There were no more commercially sponsored dive trips for me - I only dive with people I know and can trust.
i dont know about diving, but if youre weighted down with lead, you cant drop how are you supposed to swim back up? Was she supposed to crawl along the bottom to get back out? I dont understand the lead thing
When diving you wear a BCD (Buoyancy Control Device) it's the vest you see divers wearing. It can be inflated and deflated at your will to help you ascend, descend or maintain neutral buoyancy so you can cruise around at the same depth. Wearing a weight belt is standard practice.
@@dennisgavin1009 does the lead get left on the lake?
@@spacecatboy2962 nope. It's usually a belt and gets brought back with you. It's part of your gear start to finish.
Hello, former dive shop owner here. Brooks dry suits are rock solid. Mine has around 1,000 dives on it and not showing any signs of wear. Brooks are favoured by local fish farm commercial divers because of the ability to repair it with glue. We often see suits come in for servicing that has 50+ glue patches on it.
Hi Henry, thanks for adding to the conversation. As a Brooks user, is there anything special/proprietary about their inflator hose connection, or just usual BC connection?
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo their primary valve supplier was, and probably still is, Sitech. My suit has them. Obviously Sitech supplies valves to many suit manufacturers and I can’t think of any documented incidents of valve failure due to design flaw or malfunction. In this particular young lady’s situation, the lack of a drysuit hose, should have already been a called dive. As a total side note, Brooks did make make adventure suits for kayaking at one time. . They do not have valves. They are also very different suits. While the suit does have a waterproof zipper and latex seals, it was made from a thin tri or dual laminated material. It has no insulation value. This would have been recognized as an incorrect suit for a diver by most dive professionals.
@@cleanerlakes Thanks, Henry.
Retired NAUI IT/AAUS DSO here. I discourage dry suits until about 100 post training dives. Above 50 F they’re unnecessary complications. The negligence and disregard shown in this incident by the shop and the instructor are hard to believe. Part of the story mentions diving for the University of North Carolina Marine Biology. Was this a UNC sanctioned dive?
Thanks for the informed comment, Gerry. I'm not sure on the UNC question. Hope to see your input around the channel in the future.
Good video covering a tough subject. As a PADI instructor i can confirm there is a perfect storm of Instructor and dive center negligence that lead to this poor girls death. I hope they are held responsible and other shops and instructors smarten up.
I primarily teach in the great lakes and drysuit certifications are a major part of my certifications in a given year. This list of events is very hard to hear.
I want to make a comment about your skill to inflate the drysuit through the wrist seal for a rescue. I personally feel like that may be counterintuitive. Breaking the seal will for sure let water in causing the diver to loose the bouyance they already had. It may allow some air in but i would debate the water coming in would out weigh the air getting trapped in the upper half of the suit. I think it would be better to just manually inflate their suit with their valve or in the event they are out of air, I as the rescuers could disconnect my own drysuit inflator hose and connect it to their suit. Cutting the BCD off of the diver could also be an option however it will cause a rapid accent but if the diver was out of air already it depends on their state to choose what is best to keep the rescuer safe during the recovery/accent.
HI MD. Thanks for your contribution of a measured and informed comment. I don't know if Bob had a drysuit, otherwise yiour suggestion is a good one. BC hose would also work...
I don’t know a lot about diving but if this was a cold water drowning, I wonder if she could have been revived if the dive place had, I don’t know, a way to quickly contact emergency services?
PADI Open Water Instructor certified - stopped excellent video at 9:14. Inexperienced open water cert student less than ten dives and they don’t perform a swimming pool functional check for familiarization for the victim!!?? Also- isn’t “dry suit” itself a separate cert ? Never owned one and don’t know only dove 1/4 inch wetsuits in west coast - the responsible parties are reckless and criminally negligent 🤮
And they put the weights in the pockets so she had NO way to ditch them ! Unbelievable !
Yeah, They definitely Left this girl out to dry !
They murdered her.
Unbelievable negligence! Prayers for the family! May Linnea Rest in Eternal Peace! 💔
I wonder if the technique mentioned at approx 18:30 would be possible in this case do to the fact of a tremendous suit squeeze thus hindering the ability to open a space at the wrist seal. Maybe with a knife it could be possible but this would of course compromise the suit..
There are alot of negligent dive centers. I went with one particular PADI 5-star dive center and i felt so unsafe on my dive that i opted to never go back
Please correct me if I am wrong. Don't divers need certification to use dry suits to begin with? Very sad story.
What a total CF!
Thanks for the tip on rescuing an over-weighted drysuit diver by breaking a seal and injecting air from a reg. I've never heard that and it never would have thought of it when confronted with such a situation.
Thanks, Oren. This one is a heartbreaking CF...
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo I am not sure this is a really good idea. Opening a seal on a drysuit will flood it with water more likely than you will be able to inject a reasonable amount of gas. The only way you rescue a diver in open water is up so his squeeze will reduce with every meter of depth you lose. Any excess air you will inject will very likely escape from his neck seal when you ascend in an upright position. In technical dives when we exercise a rescue we deflate our own suit and bcd, deflate the diver that needs rescue suit as well, lie on top of the divers double tanks
and control the ascent with his BCD while holding his regulator in his mouth with one hand and fixing his double tank valves with the elbows. Checking functionality of every piece of equipment is a must prior to decending (main and backup regulator, bcd in- and deflatability, suit in- and deflatability, lights, computer, knife, bubble check etc. etc)
If injected at a low point, water intrusion should be minimal, as with launching an SMB/lift bag. Even if some goes out neck (I agreed a possibility) would solve the immediate problem of squeeze, letting them be able to move arms to retrieve reg and reduce panic. I’d even be tempted to let the victim invert, feet filling with air, guaranteeing a trip to the surface. I do get your other points, but this would be my instinct in an emergent situation.
Please DO NOT open the seal/cuff on a drysuit to try and get air in while submerged. If you spend too long trying to do this, you risk flooding the drysuit and adding to your problems. This is not a standard procedure and is not advocated by any recognised dive organisation ( to my knowledge) . There were obviously multiple issues which led to this tragic loss of life. One lesson is that instructors are not perfect! If you’re not happy or feel uncomfortable with any aspect of dive safety (yours or others), call it out! Be prepared to abort the dive if things aren’t rectified.
Diver here... As I live/ dive in the tropics, I never had to even consider getting a drysuit. I knew with drysuits you need some kind of training, but I didn't know that drysuits are actually that complicated and that you need to do a whole course on how to use it before safely using it on a dive. I've learned a lot from this video, thanks for making it!
It's a short course, as I remember 2 pool sessions plus 2 in the open water. It isn't so complicated to use, but you now have something else to think about - your suit now has gas closed inside, which is compressed on descent, and vice versa expands on ascent.
A very sad tale , and all of it should never have happened , let alone been avoided. I teach drysuit diving , and this is wrong from the start and stayed that way right through to the very sad ending. My thoughts are with the family.
Would unzipping the drysuit help? I do understand that would probably mean hypothermia. I just wonder if unzipping the drysuit would instantly release the squeeze?
I can't finish watching this movie. I'm dry suit diver with maybe 15 dives in drysuit. I can't even imagine what she was feeling in that moment. I hope that this instructor is sitting now in jail..
Prayers sent to her family
Exact truth, Z. Thanks for adding your thoughts.
So tragic. This kind of hit home for me as she is/was the same age as my oldest son. I can't imagine, and don't want to ever know. My thoughts and prayers are w her family, and may God give them the strength they need.
The level of utter INCOMPETENCE that went on is astounding! Someone had _better_ be going to prison for this. Unbelievable!
I know enough about diving to be dangerous, but I do know that 45 pounds of dive weight is what a hard hat diver uses for ballast when welding to keep you from bouncing around in a swell.
I am glad you mentioned that because you are correct.
When we did commercial dives in dry suits (usually Uni Suits, not Mark Vs), we would usually wear over-the-shoulder harness weight belts with about 45/55 pounds of lead.
The belt was always, always, the last piece of gear donned as it would be the first piece ditched in an emergency.
1 minute's of silence for Linnea. Thank you for honouring this lovely girl who was lost so tragically
I trained in a club system in the UK, all cold water diving - in fact my first "outside" dive was done in a lake in November in a semidry - it was pretty chilly and there was an ice diving course going on at the same time :-)! I did buy a drysuit, made for UK diving well aware from the club and my friends of what could happen all the first few dives were done in shallow water carefully whilst getting used to it. Years later as an instructor/dive leader I used to take warm water divers who wanted to join on checkout dives in semidry's they used to strugle with bouyancy control. Simlarly new drysuit dives would always be done in very controlled conditions and careful weighting and planning, we always tried to emphasise safety to set an example and instill in our students/new divers something about nature of diving and its inherent risks and responsiblity(in our system diving would often be as a buddy pair alone - only practical system in the UK). It would never have occurred to me that someone would overweight a diver so much or take someone diving without a suit feed, I'm absolutely incredulous that anyone would or how someone could not feel some sense of responsibility?... words literally fail me. My heart goes out to Bob, such a difficult situation to find himself in and to try and figure out under pressure, so sorry for him and honestly think he did absolutely everything that could be expected of him under the circumstances, horrible situation to be in. I like the idea of your regulator under the wrist seal but at depth in the murk/kicked up bottom with cold hands/gloves potentially latex seals I'm not sure it would be as practical in practice as it sounds, still at some point you have little to loose. Poor Linnea she sounds like an amazing person, thinking of her family, going to have to stop now. (Sorry for the long post deleted it once because too much stuff, but now seem to have written it again, needed to vent I think!) (By the way I'd guess the temperature was fahrenheit rather than centigrade - 43C is toasty!).
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Tom. I hate it when I put myself into writing a comment, then I somehow delete and can't get myself to reconstruct the whole thing again. Cheers! J
Your way is way the correct way, Tom. Ex warm water instructor here. Pennies get tight in dive outfits, and corners can start to get cut. Sometimes resulting in poor instruction and poor kit. Something I learnt in my own training was to research the heck out of any new skill I was doing before even registering for a course. Do every possible bit of training or study before going near the water. Saves a lot of tears and cash.
I’m not a diver, but I have to say you covered this event with the utmost of integrity and responsibility. It’s horrifying to think what Linnea went through. And Bob!
This is all about the weight, way too heavy - Though one thing that is puzzling me as a diver with over 1,000 dives...What BCD allows for 10+ pound weights that are not removable?
Hi, Jeff. Thanks for taking the time to comment. My impression is the weights were zippered into the BC pockets intended for other storage, lights, SMB, knife, etc.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo from what I read the stuffed weights in the drysuit as well and it was impossible to dump them.
Halcyon has a 6 lbs plate plus 4 pound 1st stage. I dive tropical waters with a 4/3 suit and no weights with a aluminum 80. I'm negative at full and neutral at low psi.
@@frankgill8198 Hmm, I dive with 28 pounds and a steel 130 (negative always) + a 7mm full wetsuit and I can still float with a pumped up BC.
@@rustybuckets9580 I realized I was a little freakish when I could sit on the bottom of a pool in just my 4/3. It came in handy for classes when I was the rescue dummy. I have experienced what this woman went through while diving tahoe - rubicon point in my dry suit. Its a 1500' wall and we needed to adjust weight for altitude. I dropped in with 15 lbs and floated fine at the surface. Once descending I hit our max bottom of 60' and I heard my BC start blowing. I was still dropping like a rock and started freaking out. Around 90 my first reaction was to grab the wall to stop the decent. My first reaction was to grab a belt but I caught myself freaking out and stopped by grabbing the wall. Once stopped, I started inflating my suit for buoyancy. Not the right thing to do, but I ended up using my suit as a BC to finish the dive. Second dive, I switched to 6 lbs of total weight.
Wdym the weights weren't detachable? They were zipped into her BCD and can be unzipped? What?
@Dive Talk, I would love to see you guys do a video on this incident as well. Very sad story...
I was thinking of them too! Wow, tragic story! @DiveTalk
This is mindblowing. Such a sad case. Hope the divecenter will close for good and these 'instructors' will never work in the dive industry again.
My heart goes out the the family.
Thank you Jim for the video, all videos where you analyze accidents will help me alot when I go for the instructor course next January :)
Totally agreed, Remco.
This was hard to watch, such reckless negligence. She never had a chance, overweighted, no inflator, no buddy, uncertified instructor, this is clearly criminal negligence and endangerment from the dive center and the employees present. So sad...
Not a diver myself but did you ever cover the Yuri Lipski disaster at the Blue Hole in 2000 or the Byford Dolphin travesty in 1983?
While reading the legal filing last week, I got angrier and angrier with every line I read. Seeing you go over it gets me riled up all over again. The amount of negligence, overconfidence and sheer stupidity that went into this situation is unbelievable. Breaking just about any one link in this chain of incompetence would have saved this girl's life.
Aside from the obvious and deserved legal hell for the 'dive center' and the employees involved, I'm really wondering if the points about PADI will hold. Their entire business model appears to be 'set the bar as low as possible, without making it possible to be held accountable'. That of course doesn't mean that all PADI instructors set the bar that low, but it does allow for this level of incompetence to exist within their organisation. My guess is they'll throw the 'dive center' under the bus and weasel their way out of it, but I'm hoping that at the least it'll make them re-evaluate exactly how low they want the bar to be.
Ron, thanks so much for the thoughtful and informed comment. Let's both hope that you're right and this will be a learning moment at the very least, and culpability for those deserving.
At what point does a community hold an authority to account? I have absolutely no knowledge about diving but I'm assuming that PADI issues licenses or certifications.
When does the diving community confront the PADI organization for letting them down?
Collective professional standards?
My son and I both got open water tickets and NOWHERE in that course was there mention of the issues of using a dry suit
This diving company should be forced to pay an additional punitive amount in the $100 million range, the dive master / instructor should go tp prison. Manslaughter is a crime.
Absolutely
Sure
But who’s going to pay that
That amount is a joke
@@Allheadingtosameplace There is no joke here.
Let me see if I understand correctly. It is your professional recommendation that the family “go postal”??
Oh gosh, hope that was not your takeaway. I did say I'd personally struggle with some dark thoughts in this case, if that were one of my sons and the facts turn out to be as presented.
Shocking and infuriating reading about this. What's not covered here is the instructor lied to investigators and the video exposing all of this only emerged months later.
So sad. My prayers go out to family and friends that they find peace soon.
I can't even imagine. I'm a rescue diver with just under 800 dives in my logbook, and as it happens I dive a Brooks Duratex suit like the one Linnea had purchased. I accidentally dropped once with my drysuit whip detached. I knew I was only dropping to 30ft so I just endured the squeeze until I touched down and reattached my hose. But even at that depth, I could barely move and was covered in bruises afterwards. I can't imagine what this poor girl went through. :/
Thanks for sharing that that perspective and experience, Jonathan 👍
what was the result of the law suit?
Attorney General of Montana is refusing to file charges against Debbie Snow. Absolutely shameful. I thought Montana was better than that.
This is why divers need to have confidence to speak up. If you see something wrong, scream and shout. Demand accountability up front before you get in the water even if it ends your dive dry. She couldn't have known better. The instructors couldn't be more negligent. Maybe another diver couldn't told her not to get in the water... So sad...
ive been wanting to get into diving. i think i'll hold off on it.