Big Q to folks out there...what is your experience with trying to force a reg into a bolting diver's mouth? For those who want to support the channel: Patreon - www.patreon.com/discoverydiverstokyo
I have never had a bolter take a reg. I did the leg wrapping thing so my hands could work my bcd and try to get my octo in their mouth. My eyes were laser focused on the diver mouth for bubbles. I was lucky and all of mine ended blowing bubbles for me. Don't know what i would have done if I didn't see bubbles. Big thing though, you are most likely going to get your mask slammed off you while they are flailing, be ready for it, and just tough that out. Agree that seeing the warning signs are the most important thing.
@@kevinhacken9801 This is just the kind of contribution that makes the comment section a valuable place, Kevin. Your experince reinforces mine. Hope to see you around the channel. I'm sure you have a lot of valuable feedback to offer.
@@kevinhacken9801 I totally agree I got some bruises on my face the diver spit out reg wasn’t making bubbles on ascent from 50ft after we got to the surface the diver was angry saying I was trying to drown him after we got to shore and he collected his thoughts I reminded the diver about exhaling while going up he said that wouldn’t have made a difference. Needless to say we don’t dive together anymore.
I was PADI instructor. All our open-water dives were in cold water with limited viz. Only had one guy panic at depth. Luckly he never spat his reg out but bolted for the surface from 10m. I seen he was a little sketchy and was on him straight away. Grabbed him, dumped the air out his BCD got eye contact with him and stopped the accent. After he was calmer and breathing normal we made a controlled accent. Another time it was me who was the panicked diver. Me an a couple of military mates where diving in the Lake district in the UK, Conistion. We were around 22m and the viz was terrrible. Been down for about 10minutes when i looked to check my depth an air, seen i only had 50 bar left. Signalled to the lads that i was going up to 6m for a safety stop before surfacing. As i started my accent i found that i had no air in the cylinder. I was around 18m and panicked. Having no breath i went for the surface. I would of ended up with a bend or even worse but one of lads Dave. Grabbed me and shoved his octo (spare regulator) in my mouth and calmed me down. Luckily i was still at depth and could make a safety stop at the 6m before we surfaced. We found out after, i had a leak in the first stage and had been losing air as soon as i started the descent. Even with the safety check before the dive we never got on to it. So we guess it was the O"ring on the cylinder which did look like it had a bit of a pinch when we looked closely. Dave and the other lad laughed when we had a debrief. He said "i knew you were f----d when i seen your eye's, size of dinner plates they were" ( just like the girl in the video). Anyways after a surface break and change of cylinder we got another dive in. Never forget that day😃
Thank you for sharing your experience! I'm a greenhorn diver here in Monterey,CA. I try to watch as many videos as I can about emergency procedures because I'd like to be prepared as much as possible although the real-life situation will determine how I will react regardless of my preparedness. Thanks to the excellent training I received by my instructor guru -Mycol- within 30 days of my OW certification I could use one of the emergency procedures, to tow a diver on the surface because she had no energy left in her.
I was faced with a similar scenario while diving the Niagara River 30 years ago. My buddy suddenly panicked and it was all I could do to try to slow his ascent while dealing with a three knot current to boot. He ripped off his mask, spat out his reg and proceeded to tangle himself in the buddy and buoy lines. I was somehow able to move behind him, grab his tank valve/1st stage with my right hand and his BCD inflator with my left. I was barely able to slow his ascent ‘cause he was kicking like a mule. Soon as we hit the surface he was screaming HELP ME!! over and over and tried to turn and climb on me. I inflated his BCD, dropped the inflator, grabbed his valve with my left hand and used my right to find his quick-release buckle and dropped his weights. That was most terrifying dive of my life and it almost made me quit afterwards. When somebody punches out like that, you have to keep your head, move swiftly and take control. But I’m under no illusions that the situation could’ve just as easily gone south despite my following protocol. Diving simply isn’t for everyone, and has the body count that proves it.
@@UnfiItered @Shiwoon WeirdFace could have been that. Something could have scared them earlier on the dive or could have gotten a hit of nitrogen narcosis as well. Maybe inhaled some water. Maybe a medication not compatible with diving. As a buddy, you just have to do your best to rescue the situation while not knowing the why.
I panicked my first ever dive. We were in Cozumel and I was doing a discovery dive with about 30 minutes of training and a little practice in the shallows. We started moving to deeper water and i was doing great enjoying the dive and all the marine life. We were at about 20' to 25' when another discovery diver knocked my reg out of my mouth using her hands to maneuver. Needless to say my limited training was not enough for me to keep my composure and do a reg recover. My first instinct was get to the surface as fast as I can and breath. I didn't rip my mask off but I had a strong urge to try to breath a few times before breaking the surface. The master diver surface right behind me and checked on me. She helped me calm down before she had to descend back down to the other newbies (she didn't leave them alone, her assistant stayed with them). After a few minutes and some slow deep breaths I calmed down enough to descend again and complete the dive with the group. This just happened a in March of 2022. I went to Roatan in April and got my OW. I am now hooked, but I will admit that video is hard to watch.
While on an intro dive in the Red Sea (not deep about 20 feet, my mask started filling up, think it was too big, my instructor was watching me closely as I kept trying to clear it, she said afterwards she could see I was doing it wrongly, but didnt want to touch it incase I panicked. I gestured to her to take me up before it came to that, on the surface I did it properly and we went back down & I had a lovely dive, she was brilliant 🙂
Just completed my online exam and moving on to the next step toward getting my SCUBA certification. I have enormous respect for this activity/sport. Especially after spending all the time in the online test. These videos make me want to be safer for myself and my family.
Don got certified in the 90s. The open water class was 6 weeks. 2 nights a week. Training today is weak. Get additional training from experienced instructor asap.
@@kylegrimm8808 I understand what your saying. I have gone several times since being certified and I enjoy it but would like to get more training. It would be nice to have a 2 week course like your talking about to really get a new divers skill set more tuned in. There is a lot to know and I think hands on and in the water is the best way to learn skills that become ingrained into your mindset.
When we got our training, we did practice drills in a pool. We simulated many types of emergency scenarios over and over. The worst part of this training, was being grabbed and held by a frantic, simulated drowning person. It is really rough because they knock your reg out of your mouth over and over again. You have to remain calm and resist getting panicked too. Not everyone is suited (pun) for this activity. Better to find out in the pool than in a cave or very deep water.
Oh panicking in water is so common. I was a lifeguard at an amusement park and people just get disoriented so easily I kept having to pull people out of 4 feet of water because they wouldn't stand up and kept flailing it's hard, but with the right training you can get through those scenarios. I do think having your mask come off underwater might be one of the worse things though at least for me so when we tested that skill I really had to focus because I knew I'd panic if I didn't stay in the right mindset. I just think some people want to scuba then they go do it and they realize it's not for them it can be very claustrophobic.
Something similar happened to me on my first boat dive, I was clearing my mask and I breath water, the instructor back then grabbed me by the leg, put back the reg on my mouth, I started vomiting, he hold my reg while I was vomiting till I got calmed again, after that I was able to put my mask on again and continue with the dive, it was a really unpleasant experience, but I was able to keep calm an trust my instructor. Lesson learned keep calm don't ever remove your reg and from there then you can move forward with any necessary actions, panic is you worst enemy underwater.
Wow. This is literally what scares me from trying scuba diving. I can't imagine the level of panic id have if I started vomiting under water. Your a badass
@@JBAutomotive794 Hi JB...THanks for taking the time to comment. My expereince of the matter is that accidents are actually quite rare in scuba. Serious accidents even more rare. In fact, I'm told that one of the reasons the younger generation ahs not take to scuba is the lack of relative risk thrill, lack of "extreme" relative to other current options (paragliding, kiteboarding, MTB, etc. Pick a good shop, a good instructor, get good training, you'll be right., Scuba is a very nice coiuples activity (as long as both are motivated) and often an equalizer as diving is not a competition, adn really nice to appreciate cool stuff together with a firend or loved one. BTW, here is a vid I did on the real risk of poor instruction (divers soon quit due to lack of comfort resulting from the poor training) ua-cam.com/video/98TevdsoKc4/v-deo.html
@JB Automotive and Marine Honestly if you think about it a bit it's not a massive issue - you're vomiting, so what, just keep breathing and wait for it to finish. You can throw up through scuba regs (although I admit the one time it happened to me, due to sea sickness- which usually clears once you're underwater, I didn't want to fill my shiny reg with vomit so removed it and put it back in afterwards, whilst the fish ate up my predigested lunch:-)). Most things can be sorted out by stopping, breathing and working out the problem and fixing it. In my organisation we use a mantra - STOP (do nothing) - ASSESS (think what is the problem) - ACT (now act to fix it).
@@JBAutomotive794 it's actually not a big deal. I'm not sure if it's the pressure, the air, or what but I vomited in the pool in my training dive and again in one of my open water dives. Just puke into your reg...it's fine. Since then I don't eat the morning of a dive. The first dive of the day still makes me feel queasy when I come up...but then it goes away when I go back down. I'm a new diver only been a few times.
Watched the original in one of the source links and also realized that her breathing rate also was accelerated , and we can also see here that in 3:25 she was already moving their hands in an abnormal way, giving a sign of possible panic scenario. At the end: 1-didn't saw anyone inflating her BCD 2-diver on the left of the screen removed his mask to the forehead and not to the neck 3-diver on the right using snorkel on the right side (Maybe #2 is because the urge to help on the surface, but for me that's 3 signals of inexperienced divers.)
I've seen this video a few times, and it never gets easier to watch... Stepping frame by frame through the bubbly ascent, it looks like the reg never actually makes it into her mouth, only right next to her lips. In the original video, with more sound, when they get to the surface, you can hear her hyperventilating while trying to open her hood opening. To me, it looks like a full-blown panic attack. We don't have any information about Remaining Gas Supply, or what happened before the video begins, which would help a ton. I have witnessed a new-ish diver have a mild panic attack partway through a dive, at around 12 meters, due to "wetsuit constriction". She was using a rental wetsuit, but had chosen a wetsuit that was too tight. After about 15 minutes, she began to feel a panic setting in and signaled 'Problem'. I could see in her face that she was NOT having a small issue, so we thumbed the dive. On the surface, she exhibited a similar reaction to the woman in this video, hyperventilating and disoriented. When we were debriefing the incident ashore, she said the feeling just started to overcome her. After a long SI, she wanted to try again, with a larger wetsuit. We did, and kept the depth to 8 meters for 20 mins, then stepped our way down to 15m and the diver had no issues after that. Needless to say, she's much more careful about choosing her wetsuit now..... I wonder if the woman in this video had a similar issue, maybe feeling constricted, add in a possible mask flood or low gas remaining, and the situation can quickly grew worse... I sure am glad she made it to the surface though!
Yep. Agreed. I strongly suspect that she was yelling or at least trying to vocalize during her ascent. That would have saved her from a lung overexpansion injury.
When I did my ow dives I was given a rental hood at the shop because we were going to be diving in relatively cold-ish water. My head is really small and they gave me a “small” hood. I don’t know if they’re supposed to measure anything but the hood they gave me was tight at the top and front of my head but really big near my chin area. Because of this, when it came time to do the dives, I chose not to wear it and just suffer through the cold. It felt really constricting around my upper face and really big around my chin area. It kept coming up over my mouth instead of staying on my chin.
This is why training by putting you in these uncomfortable situation is so vital. I have spent hours in the pool training, getting the mask yanked off, tossed away, and you need to find it, get it on, cleared and then you may resume. Same with the reg, a rouge dive trainer will suddenly yank your reg - tie it up where you can't reach it. You and dive buddy solve the problem. A lot of annoying, very uncomfortable moments but what you learn is invaluable when some variables are a bit out of whack and an issue arise - you troubleshoot to avoid disaster. After we have "mastered" the annoyance we go to dark, cold water and rinse and repeat all issues. There will be new sensations such as cold water hitting your face and entering nostrils. The darkness of murky water makes finding your lost gear much more difficult, bottom silth will be disturbed so you have to have patience and move slow as not to make situation worse. Also practise safe ascent leaving "defective gear" behind like tank, vest. Yes, you can have way more fun than do these practises but what many forget quickly (in the comfort of all equipment functioning normally) is that you are in a human hostile environment that will kill you generally within 2 minutes with good conditions, 1 minute or less in panic.
This is really hard to watch - she's clearly massively panicked and stressed. Conditions aren't ideal - limited viz, a fairly large group, and pretty deep for who I can only assume is a fresh trainee - perhaps the deepest she's been. Looks like she's focused on some problem or other - guessing her mask since she pulls it off later. I remember first time I trained I was afraid of taking my mask off (I was convinced the sea water would sting my eyes like bad swimming pool water can) and that seems to be a very common trainee fear, so it wouldn't suprise me. Once the reg is spit out or lost I can only imagine how terrified she must be, and I'd assume any attempt to slow her assent would only make her struggle more as survival instinct kicks in and the urge to rush to the surface can easily overcome training that hasn't yet become ingrained by repetition and practice. Again I remember training alongside my mum, and I was getting out of breath as there was a slight current and signalled as such then thumbed up. My mum just signalled to check my gas and NDL (loads of both left) and just indicated to stop, pause and get my breath back - then we continued. Moral of the story was if you've got gas and time, there's nothing to fear or fret about, and there's nothing topside that you haven't got right there with you - so take your time, and work the problem, rather than pile more complexity into it. Very wise woman, is my mum!
LM, thanks for this comment. I connected with it. It's really hard to imagine a panic that would make you want to spit a reg, so hard to believe for most of us, But I've spoken with more than a few divers that have had that feeling. They know it makes no intellectual sense, but the urge is so primal it's overwhelming. I'm interested in learning more about how to work with and train that energy. Glad to hear your mum had it under control. Thanks again for giving me some catalytic thoughts to ponder.
@Discovery Divers Tokyo It makes a lot of sense, during panic the areas of the brain responsible for reasoned thought and executive function basically shut down. The amygdala and limbic system light up and those are instinctual ‘lizard brain’ parts of the brain. We’re land animals and normally something on your face, or in your mouth, is an obstruction. So it makes evolutionary sense to instinctively rip everything off, reg included. I don’t know if there is a good way to harness that energy because it is so primal. The only thing to do really is focus on the breathe and try to avoid a full blown panic. (Just found your channel and love it btw!)
@@aprila8762 perfect explanation, exactly right. I have a CPAP for sleep apnea and when I first started using it would sometimes feel like I couldn't breathe and immediately wanted the mask off my face. Now I can't sleep without the thing but it did take getting used to. Doesn't make sense until you think of it from that evolutionary perspective.
This is second video of yours that I have watched. The content is very good and informative, but the format of stopping and starting the video is VERY frustrating. Please consider letting the video play once through it's entirety at the beginning, then going back and stop/start with your commentary. Other UA-camrs use this technique to great effect and enjoy very large subscriber bases. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing this video. As a former instructor/dive master I always: 1. Assess my comfort during preparation (gear assembly, buddy check, dive plan etc); 2. Closely monitor my first 5 minutes in the water. I feel panic starts well before it shows to others. SSI 996/ NAUI / PADI 50276*
Based on the video it seems like the panic diver had forced the reg out due to pulling mask to neck level. The diver might not intentionally removing reg from mouth but the mask and panic. Personally I have experienced this not once but several times while students doing DSD. The main cause was always diver accidentally inhale through their nose and started choking and panicking. As a dive professional we all were taught to be caution and always standby to react to these situation, without a doubt the camera person in this video did well, donate AAS immediately. But honestly since I have experienced this first hand, I'd say the donor will most likely fail to secure the AAS into the receiver's mouth, in most case. I have had panic divers who refused to take my AAS when I try to put it into their mouth by swinging their hand over me. Anyway, good job Jim looking forward for more of your videos.
Hey, CrossX! DSD, I have to say, I am such a non-fan of those cuz of all the possible risk and potential for disaster, though I'm sure accidents are rare? I have literally only done 2 in my instructional career cuz I hate them so much. On the video, You bring up a good point, that her removing the made might have knocked the reg out. Had not thought of that. Appreciate the comment and thoughts!
Jim I just wanted to say thank you. I really like your stratagey of first preventing problems as much as possible first and then solving them. Im happy you have empathy and express it. You mention its terrible to watch and are mindful of how much stress they are going through. There are many people in the united states who have been deliberately trying to stress student divers out but cutting off their air and then trying to hold them down as if to display power over them, ultimately inciting panic. When I watched the video, I noticed as you were observing the woman with bulged eyes, I saw natural feelings in your face cycle. Its what told me you are one of those people who cares to make sure people arent harmed.
The Horror! When I went through the Padi/Naui course here in Boston (almost 50 yrs ago) a sizable amount of time was spent panic proofing you. Able and local legend instructor Wally Westphal weeded out panic at the bottom of the pool to try to keep it out of the ocean. Quite the character but didn't see the humor in my answer to the purposes of your dive knife. Apparently "To help salvage your Buddies equipment" didn't sit well with him. Interesting channel, worth a Subscription
I think the mindset you need is that as long as you do not panic, it is impossible to die. I think that's the right idea, because "panic underwater means dying" -Robert Marc Lehmann
I had a similar incident while leading a discover scuba in Thailand. I took 2 Korean divers down an anchor chain to about 15 feet and had then kneel in the sand. The lady's mask was slowly filling up, so I mimicked a mask clearing move while kneeling right in front of her. Instead of clearing her mask she removed it and then spat out her reg. I vividly remember that quick transition from fear to panic, it was very quick. I held on to her and purged a regulator in her mouth until she started breathing from it and took her slowly to the surface. During the incident, she grabbed on to my arm hard enough to leave a bruise, that panic state really lends a person a lot of strength. My lesson there was that I took divers down who had been "trained" by a dive master I did not know at another location and I had absolutely no idea of their training or mastery of even the simplest things.
Looks like the dive master managed to get the regulator into her mouth. She was very lucky, it was a very close call. Tragedy averted for a change. Props to the dive master.
Just curious, why/how does panic happen? I've seen quite a few videos, they were calm one moment and freaking out the next? Is it because of the pressure? or something else that makes panic attacks more common when diving
Great Q - from folks I've known who have panicked, it's like any other panic...inexplicable in some ways, if you cannot relate to the feelling of the person in focus. One diver I knew who had a panic, he is she said they suddenlky developed an inexplicable desire to get to the surface as soon as possible. To be fair, that diver sometimes had comfort issues. The diver totally understood it was a potentially deadly instinct, but there was no control of the feeling, as with most fears.
I wasn't scuba diving, but as a little kid I had a few near drowning incidents. I think it was little things that triggered panic. Once I was underwater at the deep end of a hotel swimming pool and a little water went up my nose, probably only a few drops, but I instantly felt like I inhaled lungfuls. There was an overwhelming urge to surface and breathe that blotted out all thinking. I probably was making upward progress but the panic distorts time perception and made it seem like I wasn't moving. I think at that point I succumbed to pointless flailing about and may have actually started going back down. I don't remember when, but at some point my mother came to help. She is a strong swimmer, kind of Viking built able to beat most men arm wrestling, but had no training in handling a panicked swimmer. I was maybe 6 but in my panic I nearly drowned her. I think the panic let up somewhat because I was passing out and at that point she was able to get me out. I'll never forget how weird it was to have been that afraid, certain I was dying, and then moments later be on the surface and see no one else had even noticed. The adults were sipping cocktails. Kids running around yelling and laughing. Similar things happened over the years but without anyone around to help. I'm not sure if it was because I was older or because I knew I had to save myself, but I maintained at least a shred of self control despite terror. Off the top of my head, I think it was always something small that set it off--and unexpected dunking, water being much colder than expected, thinking I could touch bottom when I couldn't, an unknown something (alligator?) bumping into me, an glimpse of something huge that didn't last long enough to identify (an eye the size of a dinner plate) while falling from water skiing. Ironically what helped the most was being volunteered into lifeguard service in a situation that required me to swim hours every day for several summers. The initial feelings of panic still hit me hard sometimes, but I seem to have gotten pretty good at damping it down. I'm still very torn about scuba. My curiosity is worse than a cat's and even as an adult it gets me into dangerous situations sometimes. It really pulls me toward exploring the sea and maybe eventually caves. But, I'm also worried that maybe I'd fail to suppress that panic feeling and get someone killed. It is probably a good thing that dive shops won't sell to uncertified customers because my curiosity would get the better of me and I'd compromise by diving alone and probably get myself killed. I'd feel really embarrassed and guilty before dying of stupidity, although maybe full blown panic would help ease it.
@@alexrecendez7624well it happen no matter how deep it is, i had to hope i was swiming upwards at 6 to 7 meters deep and not knowing it was so scary, i would never dive unless i had money to hire a crew to watch me over all the time
I did a fair amount of diving during graduate school in Florida, and became friends with my dive instructor, and helped out with a few classes. In my limited experience, I did see some people panic, and was present in one class were several people panicked (completely uneventful dive)... I never saw anyone spit their regulator though. The instructor/buddy that stuck with that diver seemed to stay calm, and was tenacious about trying to get the regulator back in her mouth.
Oh this is terrible. I know you like to be respectful and non judgemental but that was a gross and obvious error by the guy with camera, who seemed to be someone in charge. I think that she didn't take the reg because she had already swallowed water and was in the midst of choking. I also don't think she ever took the reg in her mouth on the way up for the same reason. It's so hard to take in air once you're in the middle of choking on water... I can understand her total panic, it's so hard for most people to control. Lastly, she never filled her lungs with air and she had most likely exhaled all her lung air at some point during her initial panic attack, so that's probably why she didn't burst a lung on the way up, they were already out of air and probably with some water in them. I wonder what caused her to have this incident and I wonder if she continued diving after this. At least they weren't down 25-30 meters, she would probably not have survived or be in need of resuscitation.
This was a tough one. I guess you must be right about her exhaling somewhere on the way up. What a panic that dive must have been fo the others...waiting to learn whether she did serious damage to herself or not...
Pretty scary situation, I remember when I was doing my training in the pool our instructor had a bit of string attached to our regs he'd give us tasks to do (pick up brick move it over there and similar) (I used to inspect underwater infrastructure) and yank our regs out to learn to deal with loosing our regs we had safety divers hovering near us too. If someone panics in a concrete tube 40 meters underwater good chance someone on the team is not making it out alive got to simulate and practice for every emergency situation you can think of particularly with commercial diving
Hi Jim, first off, I wanted to say "keep up the good work" with the incident analyses, I very much enjoy them. On the matter of what to do in such a situation, I had something of the sort during my time as a rescue diver in the coast guard. A swimmer got swept into a sea cavern and trapped with the flood. I had to dive him out (the entrance to the cavern is just about 1m underwater during low tide and by the time I got there, the tide made it a short but 5m deep dive). He was reasonably composed until he saw the light above him when he completely lost it and bolted to the surface. He spat out the regulator and made a fast ascend similar to the one seen here in the video. My thinking at the time was lung over-expansion injury a lot more than him drowning from inhaling water. I would say in the here shown case this would have been my primary concern as well. So, I chose to hold on to him and punch him in the stomach. This causes the casualty to exhale, thus preventing lung over-expansion and as long as they exhale, they cannot inhale any water. At the speed of the ascent, I had a hard time exhaling quickly enough myself (I could actually feel the expanding air rushing out of my lungs), so no worry of the casualty running out of air to exhale either. Just ensure the airway is open and it'll be fine.
Hi DT, thanks for view and comment. Punch in the stomach...reminds me of my Scottish rescue instructor. Another story. Hope to read your comments on future threads.
Had a panic attack my first time not in a pool while our instructor was making us practice mask retrieval - I had no problem doing it in the pool, but in the spring I tried to do it too fast to get it over with and ended up inhaling water through my nose somehow. Instinctually, I tried to dart to the surface while my instructor tried to hold me down. Did some extra work individually with my instructor before ending up getting my certification, he made sure that I got comfortable with being underwater without a mask and learned how to calm myself down
I was very lucky and never had a student panic on me like that. I was very observant in the pool looking for those that truly were not comfortable. Play time after learning skills for instructors is more than just play.. Out of several hundred I only had problems with maybe 9 or 10 and only ever had one quit. I would work with them one on one to help them get their comfort up then stress them in the pool. Not something instructors always have the time luxury to do, but I wanted my students to succeed, but be confident they could manage their own stress. As to the video, for someone not an instructor it was as could as could be expected. Some advice that get drilled I to instructors when surfacing a panicked diver.. always stay to their back so they can't pull your reg out with panic flailing, it also makes it easier to manage both BCs by putting both of your inflator on the same side. From what I have been taught and told, it is almost impossible to get someone who has panicked to take a regulator, so just hold it to.the side of their mouth and free flow it. We all learn how to breath from a free flow in basic so hopefully they will remember that training... at the least it will help them not apserate as much water. Lastly since you are behind them when you surface you can easily pull their first stage down placing them on their back and inflating their bc making them easier to control and easier to calm down.
Hi, Weston, maybe we have a similar approach. I like to stress the hell out of my divers in the pool on until I'm confident that they can take he worst I can throw at them, then I feel ready to take them to OW. Then I back off in the OW and let them do the dives...
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Best thing you can do. During playtime, knock off a mask, unclip a fin, hook a regulator out of their mouth, be creative in the controlled environment and let them deal with the unannounced problem. Even the most skittish may bolt the first time or two but those are the ones you want to identify. Once you find them them you can work with them and they quickly learn to stop, assess, and act and gain confidence in their training and abilities.
Ooof, something like this would be my worst nightmare. I'm glad she seems to be okay! I had an issue years ago when I was diving in Egypt. When I think about it today it seems kinda funny but it sure wasn't funny at all in that situation. I suddenly needed to pee but my weight belt was too tight and was pressing right on my bladder so it didn't work. I tried to ignore it but after a few minutes I started to feel a lot of pain in the bladder area. I really thought it would burst and I felt the panic coming. I tried to signal the guide that I had a problem but of course she thought I just had a panic attack and tried to calm me down underwater. But that made it even worse because the pain did not get any better and the belt wasn't moving an inch, no matter how much I tried. The only good thing was that we were about to go up anyway so she just went up a bit earlier with me. When I told her about it on the surface she was just as shocked as I was :D I was so relieved when I finally could use the toilet on the boat, haha. But I sometimes wonder what would have happened if this whole scenario took place at the beginning of the dive...
I watched it in slow motion slowest I can and never saw it get into her mouth. How scary for her I wonder if she panicked all the more bc she saw them start heading up and thought oh Gosh they're leaving me... I know I panic so I'll never dive. But, bc I suffer panic attacks I know how that feels and I couldn't FATHOM being UNDERWATER having a panic attack... ughhh it feels AWFUL
I'd guess that her mask flooded, and she freaked and ripped it off. Tough call on this one as she is fully panicked. I suppose get a hold of the tank valve, get behind her, wrap your legs around her, then start trying to get the reg in her mouth, would be the best case scenario for this. Not sure that's doable, though. Lots of thrashing around. I found that having a grip on, and control of the tank valve is a strong position to control a diver. Being in front of a diver freaking like this would be scary. Anything could happen. I think I could see she had the reg in her mouth just as the water was getting a bit better lit, maybe at 5~7 meters.
In the 1990s, I was a safety diver, on an open water class. My station was the bottom, as the instructor was bringing students down, two at a time. The first two, were a pair of girls (young adults). Before any of he other students joined us, at the bottom (~20ft/7m), the smaller of the 2 girls, had a partially flooded mask. I "aped" the mask clearing procedure, and she attempted it, but not successfully. Then she started to panic. It was classic panic, as she yanked of he mask, and spit out her regulator, and was attempting to surface, but was flaying to much, to get any lift. For a few seconds, I marveled how this was classic "text book", but rarely do you see things as they're described. But shortly there after, I realized I had to get her back to the surface, but before that, I had to get her to stop holding breath, stick her regulator back into her mouth, and start breathing. So I popped her in the gut, which knocked the wind out of her, and shoved the reg into her mouth. Then I grabbed her by her BCD, and took her to the surface. Good thing she was a small girl, less than 100lbs. Same thing happened to my friend, who owned the dive shop, but in his case, the panicked diver was a 220lb man, at 60ft/18m, and her stripped of the gear of both of them. He finally manage to grab that guy, from the rear, get his regulator back in his mouth, and get both to the surface, minus some gear.
Thanks for another great analysis, Jim! The thing that makes these kinds of vids slightly scary to me, is that this person probably would never have thought she'd do this, but did it anyway in a fit of panic. Makes you wonder if and when you're going to respond in a way you never thought you would yourself.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo I have chronic panic attacks (daily). There is no ryme or reason to them. Sometimes later I cant figure out what the trigger was. Watching the video I could feel her sense of terror and it actually sent me into a panic attack. Thanks for the video. I am not a diver because I know it would not be safe for me with the panic disorder, but for some reason I love watching diving video's of all types.
Oh my god I can’t believe she was okay. That’s sketch. It looked like she was going to swallow a lot of water and not make it. After rewatching it I think she stops panicking, focuses the regulator, get its on quick while starting to ascend and then looks upward real quick to keep focus on her original goal, to get to the surface. It’s insane to see so much play out at once.
My Wife had the strap to her tank fail on the dive after her open water check dive, the tank started to float away and pulled her mask flooding it, but she stayed calm and held on to her regulator even though she was blind (no way to clear her mask when trying to keep your tank from floating away), the dive master noticed and strapped the tank back down but if she had not stayed calm, this could have happened to her too.
Sometimes simply putting a hand on someone helps. It let's them know you are there and they are not alone. It signals that you know there is a problem and you are there to help. It gives them reference that they are probably not sinking, shooting up or out of control in the water column and they can devote focus to solving the problem.
A rather cold POV, but it's better to have one victim than two. The benefit of a diver suffering severe panic, he/she will not hold their breath, they have rapid and shallow breathing and incredible strength in the fight for survival.
I'm no diver, but I know panic. I've been in situations where I knew if I didn't control myself and manage that panic, a lot of bad things would happen. So I don't understand what appears to be such willingness to disregard training. It's times where you are likely to panic, that good training kicks in. It happens automatically, you feel the panic and boom, next thing you know, your training got you through it. At least that's how it happened for me. Awesome video... what surprised me, it's hard to watch someone flip out at fifteen meters...
I'm guessing that this is a training dive and that the experience and repetition just isn't there yet. Basic open water recreational dive training with many training bodies only takes a few days and you really don't have time to get fully familiar with procedures enough that they are automatic.
@@lmlmd2714 So it's a relatively good bet that the individual involved wasn't fully trained and or missing much experience. That puts the whole situation in a much different light. Still hard to watch them panic at depth.. :-) thanks for the comeback!
I really want to get into SCUBA diving. But I’m afraid something may happen to me. I live in the Puget Sound area in Washington and I’d love to find out if it’s something I would pursue, is there any places that do training or tours or somewhere I could try SCUBA for the first time?
I used this video to demonstrate what a panicking diver looks like and when to avoid people (she's only 10 and very petite). It was perfect and almost, word for word, what PADI elearning describes what a panicking diver looks like (unseeing, wide open eyes, erratic/frantic movement without purpose, repetitive/aggressive movement, flapping, no responding to instructions etc).
It’s easier said than done but you have to just stop relax and breathe slowly (if you are panicked type train more in the pool, the more the better you would rather spend time there doing the work than experience a panic attack 30 metres deep and do meditation) I never ever trained in a pool, my wife was a certified dive master and got my ass in the ocean. I can swim but I don’t like water too much. My first ever dive I was loving it!! I got to 30 metres deep, not an ounce of panic or fear, I started to go frequently and go deeper I was just always calm and enjoying the scenery (remarkable it kept my mind off any craziness) Then I stopped diving for a while, and ever since I got a bad case of covid I began to be more “stressful” of a person. So we did a dive trip in Vanuatu and I was like an excited. Anyway we get to the edge of the boat and my tank starts making a whistling sound, I was like “oh no” anyway I jumped in the ocean very far from land and the guide guy wanted us to descend I said “no the tank is worrying me” he had a look and said “should be fine” even with his consent I had this bad vision in my mind “what if the oxygen cuts out 30 metres deep? Long way from the surface!” Then I was scared but tried to suck it up and we went down. Anyway all was well we were 25 metres deep and this rage of panic just struck me! You name it everything was getting me scared! I was worried about oxygen, I was worried about sharks, I was worried about death. I just regathered my thoughts and pulled through for another 10 mins but my jaw was feeling “weak” and unable to clench and water was coming into my mouth! I just said to myself “relax, relax, relax” I grabbed the guide roughly but calmly and signalled to go up. He put his thumbs up and instantly as we got to like 15 metres this huge “relief” came upon me and my jaw felt strong again (the mind is a powerful force let me tell you!) then we went snorkelling the next day and I literally told my wife “I don’t think I can dive that deep again” the only way to succeed in the waters is to get heaps of practice in a pool, a lot! And always calm down remain calm the mind freaks us out.
@BudgetGainsByJJ Wow, what a great reply. And thanks for sharing your story 👏. What happens to me is when I start deciding, and when everything is very quiet, that's when it hits me. When the instructor told me to breathe slowly and held my hands, that's how I got relaxed and got my PADI advice licence. I need to face it one way or another. I can't run away forever. 🫡
@@user-ez1fm7jx5m yes when everything is quiet! We have the same fear and it’s simple: our minds overthink and our bodies start stressing out. I absolutely agree with you just face the fear and keep facing it until diving because purely a leisurely activity, like it was once for me. I have an opportunity to become a Navy Clearance Diver, I’ve always wanted to do it to face my fear but the thought of being 90 metres under water is just terrifying. Would you say you’ve somewhat overcome this anxiety underwater a bit?
I''d be curious to know why her natural instinct appeared to be immediately ripping her mask off. She tore that thing off with a vengeance. I can only assume it was flooded and that was at least part of the catalyst that sent her into full-blown panic. Glad she made it out okay.
I think she was feeling claustrophobic and like she couldn’t breath at that moment. Her instinct was to take a huge breath of fresh air. Step #1 remove mask while ascending. Step #2 Get head above surface, Step #3 breath.
I think your assumption must be correct, that her mask was filling with water. Can't imagine why else someone underwater would rip off the one thing they need to survive and breathe. Besides being "narc'd" but that wasn't an issue in this case. The way she was distracted when everyone else was doing the thumbs up to go to the surface makes me think it was water filling her vision line that was the distraction. Then, she panicked.
@@comfixit But wouldn't it make more sense if you are panicking underwater, to keep breathing until you get to the surface, and then rip your mask off and take a breath of fresh air? I've had quite a few panic attacks in my life, I know logic is not #1 in your mind during those moments of pure fear and discomfort, but she still knows she's pretty deep underwater. If she just wanted a breath of fresh air, she could go to the surface with her mask on, then rip it off only then, unless something was wrong with her mask. So I think the likelihood of her mask filling with water and she's unable or too panicked to correct it is potentially what made her panic and rip off her mask and flee for the surface
Ive never understood why a flooding mask invokes panic. Its just water. Purge your mask. simple. its the first skill taught for a reason. People who panic in those situations have zero business diving period. Its just not for you.
@@davidshoyt1979It's about understanding why this may invoke panic in others. It doesn't on you, and that's great, but other people have had different life experiences and different triggers that set them off. A lot of the time, it's not even something that can be easily explained unless you know that person's history or childhood. For example, I go crazy around wasps. Like really deranged. It stems from when I was little and my mum telling me if a wasp stung me I would probably go into allergic shock and die. It's now all in my head and I have not been able to shake this irrational fear, or control my reactions.
Oh man... the thought of your goggles filling up with water and people already ascending ahead of you is enough to make me panic because I wouldn't be able to see and the thought of being left behind like that.... I'd be pretty scared in the moment, or praying.
You have to learn how to clear your goggles. Absolutely important. If you can't clear it completely for whatever reason, then you need to stay calm and not panic. On my very first open water dive in the ocean in Australia, I had a mask failure at about 20 meters (66 feet) and had a mask filled halfway with water. I didn't let it ruin my dive and stayed calm. I got another mask and finished the 2nd dive later in the day.
I had a student freak out and start to dart during mask clearing. I held him down and used my regular to clear his mask. He calmed down and continued class.
I have never had a diver have this problem at this depth to this degree (thank God). I have had to put the reg back in their mouth, again not at this depth and the masks too! Oh man. That meant that she was also getting water in her sinuses making even more panic. I have had students do this type of thing early on in shallow water or pool. I went through slow mo and stop action by frame. I saw it out on 6:35,41 and 45. And then in the final run at 8:04 in and 06 in and 07 out. Surfaced with no reg. Don’t know how much but we might have gotten a couple of breaths in there some pace. She would almost have to. Now it could be that as the air expanded that it did come out some on its own. That happens. But unless she were an accomplished free diver, she would have had a very hard time making it to the surface without inhaling or passing out. So my guess is she got some somewhere in there but not much.
I thought you can’t get nitrogen narcosis at 15 meters ? Isn’t that still recreational diving and not dangerous. At what point do you have to start slowly ascending the water ?
After watching the original it appears that At the tail end of the ascend she has the regulator in her mouth (hers not the camera persons) he has the gauge thingy (not a diver Idk what it’s called) in his hand adjusting it for her u can see him handling it as they reach the surface. As the video ends she’s tugging at the suit pulling it away from her neck…something happened to cause her panic..
So is deep breathing and calming down one of the most important skills while scuba diving in your opinion? I have panic disorder but I want to learn to dive. I haven’t had a panic attack in 7 or 8 years bc I’m medicated but I can’t say for sure that I wouldn’t underwater. I’ve learned that you can literally trick your heart and brain into thinking that you’re calm when you’re not, just by deep breathing. When you trick your body into thinking you’re calm, it will naturally bring down your HR and BP and subsequently your breathing will slow.
Hi, Julia. Thanks for the comment/question. For sure, deep breathing and calm are important to scuba. Underwater is a pretty unfortunate place to have a panic attack, and I knowing many individuals with this challenge, I have a great deal fo empathy. For this reason, I definitely feel anyone with a panic condition should confer with their medical pacer partner to discuss the idea of scuba training. Best of luck, Julia.
PADI Open Water Scuba Instructor Cert here : did she run out of air at only 15M? I never saw the panic diver once look at her pressure gauge to check if she had air left in her tank ? If inexperienced she would have been looking like a locomotive at the bottom and her partner should have been aware of her high air usage= inexperience. I would have noticed that and checked her submersible pressure gauge at 15 min intervals at bottom it appears they joined the group in low visibility at the end of the dive and surfaced together.
I think some form of communication needs to be created with hand gestures, lights, or vibrating device. Like sign language. That way, if you do run out of air (or have an emergency), you can signal to a buddy to lend you his hose or take whatever measures.
I'm may just an AOWD, but I already checked other divers since I did my OWD, I was a volunteer firefighter for more then 7 1/2 years, so it was a part of my routine to look around what the others do. I guess my experiance being a firefighter would help alot beinig a great diver and becoming a useful rescue diver.
I’m not a diver. I have seen multiple dive training videos that have gone wrong . There is a common theme I see. There is only one instructor with a group. Seems to me if there is only one instructor then you should have a smaller group. Why take the risk of being distracted because your watching a flock.
HI CM...it's a fair point you raise. Each agency has ratio limits, prolly dictated at least partially by insurance requirements, for each kind of dive, the conditions, and if any training assistants are present. I agree, as you might be suggesting that, even though an instructor may be technically be within ratio standards, some instructors may not be up to task depending on their level of expertise and experience.
Thanks, Jim! When I first saw this video I swear I could feel their fear; the splayed fingers, the wide eyes, the desperation. I hope that when I finally dive that I will be the kind of diver that has an almost OCD level of checking their meters and surroundings, but I also know that I am the kind of person that loses track of time. These videos help me understand what can go wrong and what could've or should've been done. I am also hoping there will be a Tony Stark level of tech for my diving suit and equipment. Can't be too careful. :D
that's such a great comment !! I also lose track of time and get distracted fairly easily (adhd) so thank you for pointing that out as a real concern to have !! I'm also paranoid as crazy so I usually do prepare like a maniac for everything but this would have slipped away from my list of awareness ! so I will definitely keep in mind that I get distracted so I should check in constantly and consistently with the dive master regardless of anything flashy or pretty that may catch my eye . This woman also seemed at first to be very preoccupied with what was on the bottom and just didn't get the signal and imagine if it's your first dive and the next thing you know you're left alone you gasp for air and swallow some water, I mean I can absolutely relate to her panicking because you can't even communicate your issue. I mean people having a panic attack on the surface can't usually find the energy to communicate or even just say "I'm having a panic attack!" to those around and then people usually do the worst thing which is surround you and bombard you with questions and concerns, in this scenario to have a panick attack and have someone grapple you makes the panic even worse even though in this case they're literally trying to save your life.. I think people should learn more free diving first perhaps ! I find that working with holding your breath helps soooo much to get to know your own body's reactions to panic and how unhelpful that is. And that if you force yourself to calm down you can far better orient yourself and find solutions. It's usually the fear of dying that's the issue which sounds obvious but the actual fear stems from the instinctive belief that you need oxygen this very second when in fact you can easily go without a breath for quite a bit longer and I feel like free diving teaching your body to override this subconscious belief that you will instantly die and give you those extra seconds which could literally make all the difference in the world in that scenario
Please always make sure to follow directions during training never play game with your life . The woman wasn’t playing attention and clearly didn’t have any idea what she was doing just a very sad situation.
Do not force anyone down, up or prevent them from changing depth against their will! Never! Don't do it! You have no real idea the reasons even though you think you are smarter. Had someone insisted on holding her at depth she would have drowned for sure as she wasn't taking a reg. Embolizing is better than death. Support the diver's options to survive as best you can. One of my kids kept slowly floating towards the surface in shallow water. I gave him a slight tug to bring him down a few feet and he immediately panicked and pointed to his ear. I was now left with a dilemma. Did he have a squeeze from the descent or a reverse squeeze trying to ascend? Do i take him up or down? The answer was neither. I support his need and evaluation to solve the problem best he can. As a rescue diver I've assisted many people but I got a good lesson that day that i don't always know what's best or have all the info.
Hi Lars. Def interesting perspective. In a case like this, if someone spit a reg with even 1/2 full lungs from 15m, that seems a certain fatality if they make it to the surface without exhaling. For me, I guess it depends on the depth and the likelihood that they will exhale. I would have more confidence that someone with a reg in his or her mouth would exhale on the way up. Thanks for this post, food for thought.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo yes definitely the right choice to get a reg to her, but others suggested trying to keep her from surfacing. I know of an instructor who forcably kept a student from surfacing. She nearly died as i recall. Her reg was full of sand from the beach entry and she sucked it in. So IF you knew this girl's lungs were half full and IF you knew she wasn't going to exhale and IF she was going to embolize and die from it and IF you knew she was going to accept a reg before you drowned her, then i say to all those, by all means keep her from surfacing.
@@LarsDennert Sounds like you have some info I have not seen. Sand in the reg? Is there more reading on this event I'd definitely want to check it out if you have a link. Thanks, Lars.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo I suspect that @Lars Dennert is referring to an incident from a few years back in Monterey, CA. If not, then there at least two such incidents.
I have apsolute none experience into diving but i was always wandering what would happen if lets say, 2 instructors lead a group of students, beginners into 15-20 meters depth and they see a big fish such as shark, okay, lets say it aint a great white but a shark, such as blue shark. How would you act yourself if one or more person start to panic because of all known potential dangers? Thank you
I was a DM on a dive and a customer made it to 60 feet on an 80 ft dive with the tank off, breathing only from the reg. She spit the reg and started flailing and I jumped on her and gave her my primary several times. She refused taking the reg, she was too panicked. I then grabbed her from the rear of the head with one hand, held my primary in my other hand and pressed the purge 100% and held the reg to her mouth and starting kicking like hell. After a while I had a strange feeling in my chest and then realized that I had never put a reg in my mouth and I had been breathholding on the ascent. I secured my octo and got her to the surface as fast as I could swim. I tried pressing her inflator and it did not work on ascent, so I think I realized her tank was off at that point. I could not see anything through all the bubbles which were blowing in her face. She ended up being fine.
W&W, this thread is filled with some incredible comments. I would never have imagined someone could get all the way down to 60ft with the air off. Was it a long hose rig? And we almost lost you?! I’ve always wondered what ling expansion would feel like before any damage was done.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Nope, just a very small women with a 3500 psi tank, certified the week before... She said that after 4 inhalations it started to get hard to inhale, but she told herself she was imagining it because the gear was all brand new. By the time she spit her reg, she had reached total panic and would/could not accept my second stage. After 3-4 attempt to donate were rejected, I just forced the reg against her lips with one hand, held the back of her head with the other, pressed the purge and started kicking like hell for the surface. I had no idea if she was going to be bloody foaming mess when we hit the surface.. but she was OK. All I could see was bubbles. As we shoved her up on the platform, I reached up and turned her tank valve on - just in case she had complications.. didn't want others to know she entered the water with the tank off. Not exactly sure how that happened, but I didn't turn her tank off. I was terribly upset by the incident, probably more so than some diving fatalities I had been involved with. I was done for the day after one 90 second dive.
@@Speedospearo Oh, man, well done! I read about a fatality once with a tech diver (doubles and stages) who jumped off a boat with the air off and actually died before he was able to turn any air on, and he was apparently so heavy at the start of that dive with all the full air tanks. Amazing the stuff that can happen. Anyway, kudos on the heads up.
It did happened to me recently. We were at between 20 and 30 meters and in our way back when I ruined out of air. I had checked my gage and trout it said 250 . I knew I was running low and was looking to signal my partner and I suddenly felt no air coming. So I panicked and reach out quickly to grad his second stage. But because I was in a panic I could not breathe through the mouth. He did try to give me his other regulator but I could not do it. My reflex was not responding. The master diver grabbed me and we ascended quickly. Even at the surface he tried to make me breathe in the reg but II could not do it. I was only able to breathe from the nose. Once I calm down I was ok. I went back diving the same day. I blame my lack of experience , the fact that I did not have a way to know the depth I was at and also a gage that was difficult to read. I also need to practice exchanging regs under water.
PADI DM..have had it happen twice. Once on a DSD. Fortunately was only 12-15 ft. Was able to put reg back in and controlled descent. Happen so suddenly. Never really saw any indication it was about to go sideways!! No injuries. Second incident was on a dive I was leading with experienced divers. A rather large bull shark made his/her grand appearance!! And roughly 30 seconds I noticed a diver bolting to surface. He wasn't close enough for me to try and help. Plus I had other drivers in water. Had been 75-90 ft for 20 minutes roughly. Fortunately no injuries in that situation either. Guy was back on boat by the time I left water. He simply said the shark scared him. Never had seen a large shark before. I quietly question his stated experience. But at end of day he was ok. Needed a good wet suit rinse though I suppose!! Cheers
I don't think she meant to spit the regulator out of her mouth. It appears she dislodged it from her mouth when pulling her mask down. She might have been trying to clear her mask when the dive leader was giving the ascent signal (obviously doing it incorrectly). I've dealt with out of air and uncontrolled descents in my 30yrs but was always able to get my buddy back to surface safely. Rescue course is the best course I've ever taken.
That was rough to watch. Try to aid as much as possible but never put yourself at risk. Rapid assenting like that from 15mts isn’t advisable. Assist if possible but if the person is bolting to the top sometimes it’s best to just let go and follow them at a safer assent rate.
So ALL of those divers had to ascend from that depth once she did, didn’t they? Or it appeared to be the case. Shew! So scary. Love her heart. I saw this video just recently on another channel but it still gave me anxiety.
@@justinmckibben4534 it was a excursion dive, I didn't have my cert yet, but I had done one before deeper and was fine, this time tho I kept getting salt water in my regulator the whole dive and at the last meter or so I took in a big swallow of water and tried to flush my regulator with no success so I did the classic panic bolt to the surface
I’ve asked this question several times and no one has answered it. I want to know why some divers when in panic mode begin to take off their mask , their breathing apparatus, tanks on their backs and in this case their head gear? I am not a diver but I suffer from panic attacks and when I am experiencing one I quickly go to flight mode. I drop everything and go outside and just walk. Being indoors feels too restrictive to me. But I don’t get urge to take off anything I am wearing. Hope this doesn’t sound like a silly question.
Hi Orando. Since no one replied (again), I will copy a comment from April A further up, because it's very well written: "(...) during panic the areas of the brain responsible for reasoned thought and executive function basically shut down. The amygdala and limbic system light up and those are instinctual ‘lizard brain’ parts of the brain. We’re land animals and normally something on your face, or in your mouth, is an obstruction. So it makes evolutionary sense to instinctively rip everything off, reg included. I don’t know if there is a good way to harness that energy because it is so primal.(...)" Hope that helps. :)
So imagine that during your panic attack you are breathing from something stuck in your mouth, which you have to suck on to get air, looking through a restricted field of view in murky water with a mask on (which could be filling with water), maybe wearing a thick suit and a hood over your head. And you look up and see sunlight, and know that up there is the equivalent of "going outside". If you do not have strong self control and experience, there is a strong risk you might "drop everything and go outside (up)", in a hurry, stripping off what your lizard brain (now in charge) conceives as encumbrances preventing you from breathing freely as you go.
I am not am instructor but I had a panic attack on my deep dive cert (I can’t stand hoods) but was “encouraged “ to wear one but I had an excellent instructor focused on his eyes relaxed after an hour and convincing everyone I could dive without a hood did my dives and went back next day did them again did my knots at depth and everything was cool
Hi Ivory! Thanks for adding your experience. Yup, lots of folks have a hard time with hoods, especially in their first year or two of diving. Glad you made it through that one!
I don't like a full hood unless it is less than 50F. I wear a surf cap on most cool dives. It is much more comfortable. Just sat it took over 500 dives to discover these. www.amazon.com/Henderson-Thermoprene-Sport-Cap-2-5mm/dp/B073RRWWP7/ref=mp_s_a_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=wetsuit+cap&qid=1624510369&sr=8-13
great knowledge. i know nothing about diving but i will be eagerly learning how to in the near future, your videos are providing me with a powerful reminder of the effort and concentration that will be required of me. thanks.
So nice of you to say, CLuve. Hope you stick around as long as the vids are interesting and useful to you. Best of luck with your diving adventure once it begins 👍
Its impossible to put a reg back into the mouth of a full blown paniced diver. The mask and reg does not feel normal to them and thats why they throw them away. To a paniced diver, the act of putting the reg back feels like your trying to cover their mouth with your hand to stop them breathing. The only real option is get them to the surface ASAP by any means before they drown, not slow them down. When I teach, I make sure that Im the last diver to go up in the group. In this situation she would not of felt left alone. She would of still felt safe as she was still together with her instructor and not paniced.
@@dazzlingextremes389Do you know how to dive? I've only been teaching Padi for 15 years. Started in 2004 and my last course was a few weeks ago at night in almost frozen water. I'm an active cave diver with over 3000 dives in total. I have had a few panicked divers in my time. Often on their holidays and not been in the water for some time. They are not always beginners! Most act wild with no logic which is why you are taught not to put your mask on you forehead as it's a sign of a panicked diver. l did have one that spat out their reg at 5m and stared blankly into the blue. I almost missed it. I was able to put the reg back though that time. Basically the longer l teach the more l realise how little l know.
When somebody spits out a reg possibly does it because in his panic feels that he has no enough air to breath. Perhaps stress goes first, hyperventilation follows and panic strikes. After this, there is the non return point. If nothing is done and situation goes further, Instinct takes control, the reg simply does not give the air you request, hypercapnia might happen or not, survival reaction appears you close your mouth, hold your breath and surface… For your life. At that point there is not much to do. Surfacing exposes the diver to lung damages, keep him on the same level, will make him vanish in a few seconds and we will be in a RCP scenario. As a diveleader is very easy to see the video and talk. Never forget that every dive is different and the context is also important. How was the diving, the day, delays, visibility, why is this underskilled diver in so bad visibility conditions, business is business, how many people you have in the group, how do you feel that day and suddenly a huge problem pops up and you have two seconds to react. Slow down the climbing, keep yourself alive and pray. You go all the way up praying to have a living diver on the surface hopefully not spitting blood. One key is on the previous signals. The orher is on you reading the signals and taking the decision to interrupt a dive to try to reconduct the situation or finally cancelling it with all the consequences it also has. Extreme panic management is just a matter of training, knowledge, skills and luck.
Hi Mark. I was just recently talking to a diver who suffered a panic attack...and they said it made no logical sense, but their overwhelming urge was to spit the reg and get to the surface for a more comfortable air source.
To be a diver I would assume that low trait neuroticism is a must-have. I have an interest in diving but I know I’m more mid range in trait neuroticism so it would be a no go for me.
Yikes. Stop, Breathe, Think, Act. As long as your reg is working and you are breathing, you are going to be fine. Breathe and Chill. (And NEVER hold your breath in Scuba). Exhale on way up.
My diver instructor in the early 80's was a retired navy diver. He was tough on us (all young guys) and would rips our masks and regs out in the pool to get us acquainted with things going wrong under water. My wife got her certification about 10 years later and I remember thinking how easy they had it.
if you are an instructor, this won't be the first, nor the last time you will see this scenario. Practice and plan your response with a buddy simulating panicked diver!
Purge the regulator in front of their mouth. then hold the back of the tank and try and slow the accent a tiny bit, at least from that depth. Any deeper and your in big trouble.
Big Q to folks out there...what is your experience with trying to force a reg into a bolting diver's mouth?
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I have never had a bolter take a reg. I did the leg wrapping thing so my hands could work my bcd and try to get my octo in their mouth. My eyes were laser focused on the diver mouth for bubbles. I was lucky and all of mine ended blowing bubbles for me. Don't know what i would have done if I didn't see bubbles.
Big thing though, you are most likely going to get your mask slammed off you while they are flailing, be ready for it, and just tough that out.
Agree that seeing the warning signs are the most important thing.
@@kevinhacken9801 This is just the kind of contribution that makes the comment section a valuable place, Kevin. Your experince reinforces mine. Hope to see you around the channel. I'm sure you have a lot of valuable feedback to offer.
@@kevinhacken9801 I totally agree I got some bruises on my face the diver spit out reg wasn’t making bubbles on ascent from 50ft after we got to the surface the diver was angry saying I was trying to drown him after we got to shore and he collected his thoughts I reminded the diver about exhaling while going up he said that wouldn’t have made a difference. Needless to say we don’t dive together anymore.
@@ivoryjohnson4662 oh man, such a hard position to be in. So glad everything worked out on that rescue! That is the decision that haunts us all.
I have had to do that a time or two but with mask on. And again not at that depth.
I was PADI instructor. All our open-water dives were in cold water with limited viz. Only had one guy panic at depth. Luckly he never spat his reg out but bolted for the surface from 10m. I seen he was a little sketchy and was on him straight away. Grabbed him, dumped the air out his BCD got eye contact with him and stopped the accent. After he was calmer and breathing normal we made a controlled accent.
Another time it was me who was the panicked diver. Me an a couple of military mates where diving in the Lake district in the UK, Conistion. We were around 22m and the viz was terrrible.
Been down for about 10minutes when i looked to check my depth an air, seen i only had 50 bar left. Signalled to the lads that i was going up to 6m for a safety stop before surfacing.
As i started my accent i found that i had no air in the cylinder. I was around 18m and panicked. Having no breath i went for the surface. I would of ended up with a bend or even worse but one of lads Dave. Grabbed me and shoved his octo (spare regulator) in my mouth and calmed me down. Luckily i was still at depth and could make a safety stop at the 6m before we surfaced.
We found out after, i had a leak in the first stage and had been losing air as soon as i started the descent.
Even with the safety check before the dive we never got on to it. So we guess it was the O"ring on the cylinder which did look like it had a bit of a pinch when we looked closely.
Dave and the other lad laughed when we had a debrief. He said "i knew you were f----d when i seen your eye's, size of dinner plates they were" ( just like the girl in the video).
Anyways after a surface break and change of cylinder we got another dive in. Never forget that day😃
Thank you for sharing your experience! I'm a greenhorn diver here in Monterey,CA. I try to watch as many videos as I can about emergency procedures because I'd like to be prepared as much as possible although the real-life situation will determine how I will react regardless of my preparedness. Thanks to the excellent training I received by my instructor guru -Mycol- within 30 days of my OW certification I could use one of the emergency procedures, to tow a diver on the surface because she had no energy left in her.
I was faced with a similar scenario while diving the Niagara River 30 years ago. My buddy suddenly panicked and it was all I could do to try to slow his ascent while dealing with a three knot current to boot. He ripped off his mask, spat out his reg and proceeded to tangle himself in the buddy and buoy lines. I was somehow able to move behind him, grab his tank valve/1st stage with my right hand and his BCD inflator with my left. I was barely able to slow his ascent ‘cause he was kicking like a mule. Soon as we hit the surface he was screaming HELP ME!! over and over and tried to turn and climb on me. I inflated his BCD, dropped the inflator, grabbed his valve with my left hand and used my right to find his quick-release buckle and dropped his weights. That was most terrifying dive of my life and it almost made me quit afterwards. When somebody punches out like that, you have to keep your head, move swiftly and take control. But I’m under no illusions that the situation could’ve just as easily gone south despite my following protocol. Diving simply isn’t for everyone, and has the body count that proves it.
Wow, BBB, way to keep your head. Thanks for sharing your experience, enriching this comment thread.
Yes nicely done
Like what causes a panic attack like that? Did they previously have a fear of the water? If so why even dive if they did.
@@UnfiItered @Shiwoon WeirdFace could have been that. Something could have scared them earlier on the dive or could have gotten a hit of nitrogen narcosis as well. Maybe inhaled some water. Maybe a medication not compatible with diving. As a buddy, you just have to do your best to rescue the situation while not knowing the why.
Be proud of yourself, you saved his life, you're a brave person ❤
I panicked my first ever dive. We were in Cozumel and I was doing a discovery dive with about 30 minutes of training and a little practice in the shallows. We started moving to deeper water and i was doing great enjoying the dive and all the marine life. We were at about 20' to 25' when another discovery diver knocked my reg out of my mouth using her hands to maneuver. Needless to say my limited training was not enough for me to keep my composure and do a reg recover. My first instinct was get to the surface as fast as I can and breath. I didn't rip my mask off but I had a strong urge to try to breath a few times before breaking the surface. The master diver surface right behind me and checked on me. She helped me calm down before she had to descend back down to the other newbies (she didn't leave them alone, her assistant stayed with them). After a few minutes and some slow deep breaths I calmed down enough to descend again and complete the dive with the group. This just happened a in March of 2022. I went to Roatan in April and got my OW. I am now hooked, but I will admit that video is hard to watch.
While on an intro dive in the Red Sea (not deep about 20 feet, my mask started filling up, think it was too big, my instructor was watching me closely as I kept trying to clear it, she said afterwards she could see I was doing it wrongly, but didnt want to touch it incase I panicked. I gestured to her to take me up before it came to that, on the surface I did it properly and we went back down & I had a lovely dive, she was brilliant 🙂
Just completed my online exam and moving on to the next step toward getting my SCUBA certification. I have enormous respect for this activity/sport. Especially after spending all the time in the online test.
These videos make me want to be safer for myself and my family.
Great attitude, Don. Incident/accident vids and forums are an excellent way to stay sharp 👍
Don got certified in the 90s. The open water class was 6 weeks. 2 nights a week. Training today is weak. Get additional training from experienced instructor asap.
@@kylegrimm8808 I understand what your saying. I have gone several times since being certified and I enjoy it but would like to get more training.
It would be nice to have a 2 week course like your talking about to really get a new divers skill set more tuned in. There is a lot to know and I think hands on and in the water is the best way to learn skills that become ingrained into your mindset.
When we got our training, we did practice drills in a pool. We simulated many types of emergency scenarios over and over. The worst part of this training, was being grabbed and held by a frantic, simulated drowning person. It is really rough because they knock your reg out of your mouth over and over again. You have to remain calm and resist getting panicked too. Not everyone is suited (pun) for this activity. Better to find out in the pool than in a cave or very deep water.
Oh panicking in water is so common. I was a lifeguard at an amusement park and people just get disoriented so easily I kept having to pull people out of 4 feet of water because they wouldn't stand up and kept flailing it's hard, but with the right training you can get through those scenarios. I do think having your mask come off underwater might be one of the worse things though at least for me so when we tested that skill I really had to focus because I knew I'd panic if I didn't stay in the right mindset. I just think some people want to scuba then they go do it and they realize it's not for them it can be very claustrophobic.
Where did you get this training?
Yeah fuck that. Lmao
Something similar happened to me on my first boat dive, I was clearing my mask and I breath water, the instructor back then grabbed me by the leg, put back the reg on my mouth, I started vomiting, he hold my reg while I was vomiting till I got calmed again, after that I was able to put my mask on again and continue with the dive, it was a really unpleasant experience, but I was able to keep calm an trust my instructor. Lesson learned keep calm don't ever remove your reg and from there then you can move forward with any necessary actions, panic is you worst enemy underwater.
Good grief, Cesar, that’s an amazing experience. Thanks so much for sharing this. Must have been terrifying.
Wow. This is literally what scares me from trying scuba diving. I can't imagine the level of panic id have if I started vomiting under water. Your a badass
@@JBAutomotive794 Hi JB...THanks for taking the time to comment. My expereince of the matter is that accidents are actually quite rare in scuba. Serious accidents even more rare. In fact, I'm told that one of the reasons the younger generation ahs not take to scuba is the lack of relative risk thrill, lack of "extreme" relative to other current options (paragliding, kiteboarding, MTB, etc. Pick a good shop, a good instructor, get good training, you'll be right., Scuba is a very nice coiuples activity (as long as both are motivated) and often an equalizer as diving is not a competition, adn really nice to appreciate cool stuff together with a firend or loved one.
BTW, here is a vid I did on the real risk of poor instruction (divers soon quit due to lack of comfort resulting from the poor training)
ua-cam.com/video/98TevdsoKc4/v-deo.html
@JB Automotive and Marine Honestly if you think about it a bit it's not a massive issue - you're vomiting, so what, just keep breathing and wait for it to finish. You can throw up through scuba regs (although I admit the one time it happened to me, due to sea sickness- which usually clears once you're underwater, I didn't want to fill my shiny reg with vomit so removed it and put it back in afterwards, whilst the fish ate up my predigested lunch:-)). Most things can be sorted out by stopping, breathing and working out the problem and fixing it. In my organisation we use a mantra - STOP (do nothing) - ASSESS (think what is the problem) - ACT (now act to fix it).
@@JBAutomotive794 it's actually not a big deal. I'm not sure if it's the pressure, the air, or what but I vomited in the pool in my training dive and again in one of my open water dives. Just puke into your reg...it's fine. Since then I don't eat the morning of a dive. The first dive of the day still makes me feel queasy when I come up...but then it goes away when I go back down. I'm a new diver only been a few times.
Watched the original in one of the source links and also realized that her breathing rate also was accelerated , and we can also see here that in 3:25 she was already moving their hands in an abnormal way, giving a sign of possible panic scenario.
At the end:
1-didn't saw anyone inflating her BCD
2-diver on the left of the screen removed his mask to the forehead and not to the neck
3-diver on the right using snorkel on the right side
(Maybe #2 is because the urge to help on the surface, but for me that's 3 signals of inexperienced divers.)
Many thanks for taking the time to add your comments, Gabriel.
I've seen this video a few times, and it never gets easier to watch... Stepping frame by frame through the bubbly ascent, it looks like the reg never actually makes it into her mouth, only right next to her lips. In the original video, with more sound, when they get to the surface, you can hear her hyperventilating while trying to open her hood opening. To me, it looks like a full-blown panic attack. We don't have any information about Remaining Gas Supply, or what happened before the video begins, which would help a ton.
I have witnessed a new-ish diver have a mild panic attack partway through a dive, at around 12 meters, due to "wetsuit constriction". She was using a rental wetsuit, but had chosen a wetsuit that was too tight. After about 15 minutes, she began to feel a panic setting in and signaled 'Problem'. I could see in her face that she was NOT having a small issue, so we thumbed the dive. On the surface, she exhibited a similar reaction to the woman in this video, hyperventilating and disoriented. When we were debriefing the incident ashore, she said the feeling just started to overcome her. After a long SI, she wanted to try again, with a larger wetsuit. We did, and kept the depth to 8 meters for 20 mins, then stepped our way down to 15m and the diver had no issues after that. Needless to say, she's much more careful about choosing her wetsuit now.....
I wonder if the woman in this video had a similar issue, maybe feeling constricted, add in a possible mask flood or low gas remaining, and the situation can quickly grew worse... I sure am glad she made it to the surface though!
D-fresh, thanks for taking the time to view and your informed comment.
Yep. Agreed. I strongly suspect that she was yelling or at least trying to vocalize during her ascent. That would have saved her from a lung overexpansion injury.
@@OrenNoah If so, could have saved her life...
When I did my ow dives I was given a rental hood at the shop because we were going to be diving in relatively cold-ish water. My head is really small and they gave me a “small” hood. I don’t know if they’re supposed to measure anything but the hood they gave me was tight at the top and front of my head but really big near my chin area. Because of this, when it came time to do the dives, I chose not to wear it and just suffer through the cold. It felt really constricting around my upper face and really big around my chin area. It kept coming up over my mouth instead of staying on my chin.
This is why training by putting you in these uncomfortable situation is so vital. I have spent hours in the pool training, getting the mask yanked off, tossed away, and you need to find it, get it on, cleared and then you may resume.
Same with the reg, a rouge dive trainer will suddenly yank your reg - tie it up where you can't reach it. You and dive buddy solve the problem.
A lot of annoying, very uncomfortable moments but what you learn is invaluable when some variables are a bit out of whack and an issue arise - you troubleshoot to avoid disaster.
After we have "mastered" the annoyance we go to dark, cold water and rinse and repeat all issues. There will be new sensations such as cold water hitting your face and entering nostrils. The darkness of murky water makes finding your lost gear much more difficult, bottom silth will be disturbed so you have to have patience and move slow as not to make situation worse.
Also practise safe ascent leaving "defective gear" behind like tank, vest.
Yes, you can have way more fun than do these practises but what many forget quickly (in the comfort of all equipment functioning normally) is that you are in a human hostile environment that will kill you generally within 2 minutes with good conditions, 1 minute or less in panic.
Great post, Paxmax...
This is really hard to watch - she's clearly massively panicked and stressed. Conditions aren't ideal - limited viz, a fairly large group, and pretty deep for who I can only assume is a fresh trainee - perhaps the deepest she's been. Looks like she's focused on some problem or other - guessing her mask since she pulls it off later. I remember first time I trained I was afraid of taking my mask off (I was convinced the sea water would sting my eyes like bad swimming pool water can) and that seems to be a very common trainee fear, so it wouldn't suprise me.
Once the reg is spit out or lost I can only imagine how terrified she must be, and I'd assume any attempt to slow her assent would only make her struggle more as survival instinct kicks in and the urge to rush to the surface can easily overcome training that hasn't yet become ingrained by repetition and practice.
Again I remember training alongside my mum, and I was getting out of breath as there was a slight current and signalled as such then thumbed up. My mum just signalled to check my gas and NDL (loads of both left) and just indicated to stop, pause and get my breath back - then we continued. Moral of the story was if you've got gas and time, there's nothing to fear or fret about, and there's nothing topside that you haven't got right there with you - so take your time, and work the problem, rather than pile more complexity into it. Very wise woman, is my mum!
LM, thanks for this comment. I connected with it. It's really hard to imagine a panic that would make you want to spit a reg, so hard to believe for most of us, But I've spoken with more than a few divers that have had that feeling. They know it makes no intellectual sense, but the urge is so primal it's overwhelming. I'm interested in learning more about how to work with and train that energy.
Glad to hear your mum had it under control.
Thanks again for giving me some catalytic thoughts to ponder.
@Discovery Divers Tokyo It makes a lot of sense, during panic the areas of the brain responsible for reasoned thought and executive function basically shut down. The amygdala and limbic system light up and those are instinctual ‘lizard brain’ parts of the brain. We’re land animals and normally something on your face, or in your mouth, is an obstruction. So it makes evolutionary sense to instinctively rip everything off, reg included. I don’t know if there is a good way to harness that energy because it is so primal. The only thing to do really is focus on the breathe and try to avoid a full blown panic. (Just found your channel and love it btw!)
@@aprila8762 perfect explanation, exactly right. I have a CPAP for sleep apnea and when I first started using it would sometimes feel like I couldn't breathe and immediately wanted the mask off my face. Now I can't sleep without the thing but it did take getting used to. Doesn't make sense until you think of it from that evolutionary perspective.
This is second video of yours that I have watched. The content is very good and informative, but the format of stopping and starting the video is VERY frustrating. Please consider letting the video play once through it's entirety at the beginning, then going back and stop/start with your commentary. Other UA-camrs use this technique to great effect and enjoy very large subscriber bases. Thank you.
^^^
EXACTLY!!!!! He may gain more followers to his channel, especially if this video is the first time they’ve been here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for sharing this video.
As a former instructor/dive master I always:
1. Assess my comfort during preparation (gear assembly, buddy check, dive plan etc);
2. Closely monitor my first 5 minutes in the water.
I feel panic starts well before it shows to others.
SSI 996/ NAUI / PADI 50276*
Based on the video it seems like the panic diver had forced the reg out due to pulling mask to neck level. The diver might not intentionally removing reg from mouth but the mask and panic.
Personally I have experienced this not once but several times while students doing DSD. The main cause was always diver accidentally inhale through their nose and started choking and panicking. As a dive professional we all were taught to be caution and always standby to react to these situation, without a doubt the camera person in this video did well, donate AAS immediately. But honestly since I have experienced this first hand, I'd say the donor will most likely fail to secure the AAS into the receiver's mouth, in most case. I have had panic divers who refused to take my AAS when I try to put it into their mouth by swinging their hand over me.
Anyway, good job Jim looking forward for more of your videos.
Hey, CrossX! DSD, I have to say, I am such a non-fan of those cuz of all the possible risk and potential for disaster, though I'm sure accidents are rare? I have literally only done 2 in my instructional career cuz I hate them so much.
On the video, You bring up a good point, that her removing the made might have knocked the reg out. Had not thought of that. Appreciate the comment and thoughts!
Jim I just wanted to say thank you. I really like your stratagey of first preventing problems as much as possible first and then solving them.
Im happy you have empathy and express it. You mention its terrible to watch and are mindful of how much stress they are going through. There are many people in the united states who have been deliberately trying to stress student divers out but cutting off their air and then trying to hold them down as if to display power over them, ultimately inciting panic. When I watched the video, I noticed as you were observing the woman with bulged eyes, I saw natural feelings in your face cycle. Its what told me you are one of those people who cares to make sure people arent harmed.
The Horror! When I went through the Padi/Naui course here in Boston (almost 50 yrs ago) a sizable amount of time was spent panic proofing you. Able and local legend instructor Wally Westphal weeded out panic at the bottom of the pool to try to keep it out of the ocean. Quite the character but didn't see the humor in my answer to the purposes of your dive knife. Apparently "To help salvage your Buddies equipment" didn't sit well with him. Interesting channel, worth a Subscription
Thanks for the comment and sub, GD4. Hope you keep the experience stories coming in future comment threads.
I think that’s a funny joke
I think the mindset you need is that as long as you do not panic, it is impossible to die.
I think that's the right idea, because "panic underwater means dying" -Robert Marc Lehmann
I had a similar incident while leading a discover scuba in Thailand. I took 2 Korean divers down an anchor chain to about 15 feet and had then kneel in the sand. The lady's mask was slowly filling up, so I mimicked a mask clearing move while kneeling right in front of her. Instead of clearing her mask she removed it and then spat out her reg. I vividly remember that quick transition from fear to panic, it was very quick. I held on to her and purged a regulator in her mouth until she started breathing from it and took her slowly to the surface. During the incident, she grabbed on to my arm hard enough to leave a bruise, that panic state really lends a person a lot of strength. My lesson there was that I took divers down who had been "trained" by a dive master I did not know at another location and I had absolutely no idea of their training or mastery of even the simplest things.
You seem like a great, competent, professional scuba instructor. Very wise.
Looks like the dive master managed to get the regulator into her mouth. She was very lucky, it was a very close call. Tragedy averted for a change. Props to the dive master.
Just curious, why/how does panic happen? I've seen quite a few videos, they were calm one moment and freaking out the next? Is it because of the pressure? or something else that makes panic attacks more common when diving
Great Q - from folks I've known who have panicked, it's like any other panic...inexplicable in some ways, if you cannot relate to the feelling of the person in focus. One diver I knew who had a panic, he is she said they suddenlky developed an inexplicable desire to get to the surface as soon as possible. To be fair, that diver sometimes had comfort issues. The diver totally understood it was a potentially deadly instinct, but there was no control of the feeling, as with most fears.
I wasn't scuba diving, but as a little kid I had a few near drowning incidents. I think it was little things that triggered panic. Once I was underwater at the deep end of a hotel swimming pool and a little water went up my nose, probably only a few drops, but I instantly felt like I inhaled lungfuls. There was an overwhelming urge to surface and breathe that blotted out all thinking. I probably was making upward progress but the panic distorts time perception and made it seem like I wasn't moving. I think at that point I succumbed to pointless flailing about and may have actually started going back down. I don't remember when, but at some point my mother came to help. She is a strong swimmer, kind of Viking built able to beat most men arm wrestling, but had no training in handling a panicked swimmer. I was maybe 6 but in my panic I nearly drowned her. I think the panic let up somewhat because I was passing out and at that point she was able to get me out. I'll never forget how weird it was to have been that afraid, certain I was dying, and then moments later be on the surface and see no one else had even noticed. The adults were sipping cocktails. Kids running around yelling and laughing.
Similar things happened over the years but without anyone around to help. I'm not sure if it was because I was older or because I knew I had to save myself, but I maintained at least a shred of self control despite terror. Off the top of my head, I think it was always something small that set it off--and unexpected dunking, water being much colder than expected, thinking I could touch bottom when I couldn't, an unknown something (alligator?) bumping into me, an glimpse of something huge that didn't last long enough to identify (an eye the size of a dinner plate) while falling from water skiing. Ironically what helped the most was being volunteered into lifeguard service in a situation that required me to swim hours every day for several summers. The initial feelings of panic still hit me hard sometimes, but I seem to have gotten pretty good at damping it down.
I'm still very torn about scuba. My curiosity is worse than a cat's and even as an adult it gets me into dangerous situations sometimes. It really pulls me toward exploring the sea and maybe eventually caves. But, I'm also worried that maybe I'd fail to suppress that panic feeling and get someone killed. It is probably a good thing that dive shops won't sell to uncertified customers because my curiosity would get the better of me and I'd compromise by diving alone and probably get myself killed. I'd feel really embarrassed and guilty before dying of stupidity, although maybe full blown panic would help ease it.
It’s the fear of knowing that ur 15feet under water with no oxygen, and that u might die, that’s how panic happens
@@alexrecendez7624well it happen no matter how deep it is, i had to hope i was swiming upwards at 6 to 7 meters deep and not knowing it was so scary, i would never dive unless i had money to hire a crew to watch me over all the time
I did a fair amount of diving during graduate school in Florida, and became friends with my dive instructor, and helped out with a few classes. In my limited experience, I did see some people panic, and was present in one class were several people panicked (completely uneventful dive)... I never saw anyone spit their regulator though. The instructor/buddy that stuck with that diver seemed to stay calm, and was tenacious about trying to get the regulator back in her mouth.
Oh this is terrible. I know you like to be respectful and non judgemental but that was a gross and obvious error by the guy with camera, who seemed to be someone in charge. I think that she didn't take the reg because she had already swallowed water and was in the midst of choking. I also don't think she ever took the reg in her mouth on the way up for the same reason. It's so hard to take in air once you're in the middle of choking on water... I can understand her total panic, it's so hard for most people to control. Lastly, she never filled her lungs with air and she had most likely exhaled all her lung air at some point during her initial panic attack, so that's probably why she didn't burst a lung on the way up, they were already out of air and probably with some water in them. I wonder what caused her to have this incident and I wonder if she continued diving after this. At least they weren't down 25-30 meters, she would probably not have survived or be in need of resuscitation.
This was a tough one. I guess you must be right about her exhaling somewhere on the way up. What a panic that dive must have been fo the others...waiting to learn whether she did serious damage to herself or not...
You can see her half way through the panic she screamed and let out some big bubbles.
Pretty scary situation, I remember when I was doing my training in the pool our instructor had a bit of string attached to our regs he'd give us tasks to do (pick up brick move it over there and similar) (I used to inspect underwater infrastructure) and yank our regs out to learn to deal with loosing our regs we had safety divers hovering near us too.
If someone panics in a concrete tube 40 meters underwater good chance someone on the team is not making it out alive got to simulate and practice for every emergency situation you can think of particularly with commercial diving
Wow, that is a tough spot!
Hi Jim, first off, I wanted to say "keep up the good work" with the incident analyses, I very much enjoy them.
On the matter of what to do in such a situation, I had something of the sort during my time as a rescue diver in the coast guard. A swimmer got swept into a sea cavern and trapped with the flood. I had to dive him out (the entrance to the cavern is just about 1m underwater during low tide and by the time I got there, the tide made it a short but 5m deep dive). He was reasonably composed until he saw the light above him when he completely lost it and bolted to the surface. He spat out the regulator and made a fast ascend similar to the one seen here in the video. My thinking at the time was lung over-expansion injury a lot more than him drowning from inhaling water. I would say in the here shown case this would have been my primary concern as well. So, I chose to hold on to him and punch him in the stomach. This causes the casualty to exhale, thus preventing lung over-expansion and as long as they exhale, they cannot inhale any water. At the speed of the ascent, I had a hard time exhaling quickly enough myself (I could actually feel the expanding air rushing out of my lungs), so no worry of the casualty running out of air to exhale either. Just ensure the airway is open and it'll be fine.
Hi DT, thanks for view and comment. Punch in the stomach...reminds me of my Scottish rescue instructor. Another story. Hope to read your comments on future threads.
Had a panic attack my first time not in a pool while our instructor was making us practice mask retrieval - I had no problem doing it in the pool, but in the spring I tried to do it too fast to get it over with and ended up inhaling water through my nose somehow. Instinctually, I tried to dart to the surface while my instructor tried to hold me down. Did some extra work individually with my instructor before ending up getting my certification, he made sure that I got comfortable with being underwater without a mask and learned how to calm myself down
Thanks for sharing this one, Wolfsong. Glad you make itout, learned form it and allowing others to benefit.
I was very lucky and never had a student panic on me like that. I was very observant in the pool looking for those that truly were not comfortable. Play time after learning skills for instructors is more than just play.. Out of several hundred I only had problems with maybe 9 or 10 and only ever had one quit. I would work with them one on one to help them get their comfort up then stress them in the pool. Not something instructors always have the time luxury to do, but I wanted my students to succeed, but be confident they could manage their own stress. As to the video, for someone not an instructor it was as could as could be expected. Some advice that get drilled I to instructors when surfacing a panicked diver.. always stay to their back so they can't pull your reg out with panic flailing, it also makes it easier to manage both BCs by putting both of your inflator on the same side. From what I have been taught and told, it is almost impossible to get someone who has panicked to take a regulator, so just hold it to.the side of their mouth and free flow it. We all learn how to breath from a free flow in basic so hopefully they will remember that training... at the least it will help them not apserate as much water. Lastly since you are behind them when you surface you can easily pull their first stage down placing them on their back and inflating their bc making them easier to control and easier to calm down.
Hi, Weston, maybe we have a similar approach. I like to stress the hell out of my divers in the pool on until I'm confident that they can take he worst I can throw at them, then I feel ready to take them to OW. Then I back off in the OW and let them do the dives...
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Best thing you can do. During playtime, knock off a mask, unclip a fin, hook a regulator out of their mouth, be creative in the controlled environment and let them deal with the unannounced problem. Even the most skittish may bolt the first time or two but those are the ones you want to identify. Once you find them them you can work with them and they quickly learn to stop, assess, and act and gain confidence in their training and abilities.
Excellent Channel ! Enjoy your videos and greetings from Down under.
Thank you very much, Paul. Glad to have you on board 👍
LOVE the outro song…can someone tell me what it is??
Ooof, something like this would be my worst nightmare. I'm glad she seems to be okay! I had an issue years ago when I was diving in Egypt. When I think about it today it seems kinda funny but it sure wasn't funny at all in that situation. I suddenly needed to pee but my weight belt was too tight and was pressing right on my bladder so it didn't work. I tried to ignore it but after a few minutes I started to feel a lot of pain in the bladder area. I really thought it would burst and I felt the panic coming. I tried to signal the guide that I had a problem but of course she thought I just had a panic attack and tried to calm me down underwater. But that made it even worse because the pain did not get any better and the belt wasn't moving an inch, no matter how much I tried. The only good thing was that we were about to go up anyway so she just went up a bit earlier with me. When I told her about it on the surface she was just as shocked as I was :D I was so relieved when I finally could use the toilet on the boat, haha. But I sometimes wonder what would have happened if this whole scenario took place at the beginning of the dive...
I watched it in slow motion slowest I can and never saw it get into her mouth. How scary for her I wonder if she panicked all the more bc she saw them start heading up and thought oh Gosh they're leaving me... I know I panic so I'll never dive. But, bc I suffer panic attacks I know how that feels and I couldn't FATHOM being UNDERWATER having a panic attack... ughhh it feels AWFUL
I'd guess that her mask flooded, and she freaked and ripped it off.
Tough call on this one as she is fully panicked. I suppose get a hold of the tank valve, get behind her, wrap your legs around her, then start trying to get the reg in her mouth, would be the best case scenario for this. Not sure that's doable, though. Lots of thrashing around.
I found that having a grip on, and control of the tank valve is a strong position to control a diver.
Being in front of a diver freaking like this would be scary. Anything could happen.
I think I could see she had the reg in her mouth just as the water was getting a bit better lit, maybe at 5~7 meters.
Thanks, BBQ...what a nightmare, huh. Must have been terrible for all involved. Thanks on the input and your observations.
you can't see bubbles from the back though. Also, no chance of getting a reg in their mouth, not that they will take it though.
Good thing they were only at 15 meters, not 50
In the 1990s, I was a safety diver, on an open water class. My station was the bottom, as the instructor was bringing students down, two at a time. The first two, were a pair of girls (young adults). Before any of he other students joined us, at the bottom (~20ft/7m), the smaller of the 2 girls, had a partially flooded mask. I "aped" the mask clearing procedure, and she attempted it, but not successfully. Then she started to panic. It was classic panic, as she yanked of he mask, and spit out her regulator, and was attempting to surface, but was flaying to much, to get any lift. For a few seconds, I marveled how this was classic "text book", but rarely do you see things as they're described. But shortly there after, I realized I had to get her back to the surface, but before that, I had to get her to stop holding breath, stick her regulator back into her mouth, and start breathing. So I popped her in the gut, which knocked the wind out of her, and shoved the reg into her mouth. Then I grabbed her by her BCD, and took her to the surface.
Good thing she was a small girl, less than 100lbs. Same thing happened to my friend, who owned the dive shop, but in his case, the panicked diver was a 220lb man, at 60ft/18m, and her stripped of the gear of both of them. He finally manage to grab that guy, from the rear, get his regulator back in his mouth, and get both to the surface, minus some gear.
Thanks for another great analysis, Jim! The thing that makes these kinds of vids slightly scary to me, is that this person probably would never have thought she'd do this, but did it anyway in a fit of panic. Makes you wonder if and when you're going to respond in a way you never thought you would yourself.
Hi Ron! Yes, I agree. Looking at these vids has made more curious about the phenomena of panic in general.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo I have chronic panic attacks (daily). There is no ryme or reason to them. Sometimes later I cant figure out what the trigger was. Watching the video I could feel her sense of terror and it actually sent me into a panic attack. Thanks for the video. I am not a diver because I know it would not be safe for me with the panic disorder, but for some reason I love watching diving video's of all types.
@@jeaniejbutler4911 thanks so much for adding your valuable real life experience and perspective 👍
Been gone for a few months getting, looks like the channel is growing !! Very exciting !
Hi Remco! Thanks for stopping back. She's slow and steady. Not exponential like many channels, but chugging along in the right direction 👍.
Oh my god I can’t believe she was okay. That’s sketch. It looked like she was going to swallow a lot of water and not make it. After rewatching it I think she stops panicking, focuses the regulator, get its on quick while starting to ascend and then looks upward real quick to keep focus on her original goal, to get to the surface. It’s insane to see so much play out at once.
My Wife had the strap to her tank fail on the dive after her open water check dive, the tank started to float away and pulled her mask flooding it, but she stayed calm and held on to her regulator even though she was blind (no way to clear her mask when trying to keep your tank from floating away), the dive master noticed and strapped the tank back down but if she had not stayed calm, this could have happened to her too.
Thanks for sharing that story, Jon 👍
Sometimes simply putting a hand on someone helps. It let's them know you are there and they are not alone. It signals that you know there is a problem and you are there to help. It gives them reference that they are probably not sinking, shooting up or out of control in the water column and they can devote focus to solving the problem.
A rather cold POV, but it's better to have one victim than two. The benefit of a diver suffering severe panic, he/she will not hold their breath, they have rapid and shallow breathing and incredible strength in the fight for survival.
Panic strength is no joke.
I'm no diver, but I know panic. I've been in situations where I knew if I didn't control myself and manage that panic, a lot of bad things would happen. So I don't understand what appears to be such willingness to disregard training. It's times where you are likely to panic, that good training kicks in. It happens automatically, you feel the panic and boom, next thing you know, your training got you through it. At least that's how it happened for me. Awesome video... what surprised me, it's hard to watch someone flip out at fifteen meters...
I'm guessing that this is a training dive and that the experience and repetition just isn't there yet. Basic open water recreational dive training with many training bodies only takes a few days and you really don't have time to get fully familiar with procedures enough that they are automatic.
@@lmlmd2714 So it's a relatively good bet that the individual involved wasn't fully trained and or missing much experience. That puts the whole situation in a much different light. Still hard to watch them panic at depth.. :-) thanks for the comeback!
I really want to get into SCUBA diving. But I’m afraid something may happen to me. I live in the Puget Sound area in Washington and I’d love to find out if it’s something I would pursue, is there any places that do training or tours or somewhere I could try SCUBA for the first time?
I used this video to demonstrate what a panicking diver looks like and when to avoid people (she's only 10 and very petite). It was perfect and almost, word for word, what PADI elearning describes what a panicking diver looks like (unseeing, wide open eyes, erratic/frantic movement without purpose, repetitive/aggressive movement, flapping, no responding to instructions etc).
What is the best way to stop a panic attack?
It’s easier said than done but you have to just stop relax and breathe slowly (if you are panicked type train more in the pool, the more the better you would rather spend time there doing the work than experience a panic attack 30 metres deep and do meditation)
I never ever trained in a pool, my wife was a certified dive master and got my ass in the ocean. I can swim but I don’t like water too much. My first ever dive I was loving it!! I got to 30 metres deep, not an ounce of panic or fear, I started to go frequently and go deeper I was just always calm and enjoying the scenery (remarkable it kept my mind off any craziness)
Then I stopped diving for a while, and ever since I got a bad case of covid I began to be more “stressful” of a person. So we did a dive trip in Vanuatu and I was like an excited. Anyway we get to the edge of the boat and my tank starts making a whistling sound, I was like “oh no” anyway I jumped in the ocean very far from land and the guide guy wanted us to descend I said “no the tank is worrying me” he had a look and said “should be fine” even with his consent I had this bad vision in my mind “what if the oxygen cuts out 30 metres deep? Long way from the surface!” Then I was scared but tried to suck it up and we went down. Anyway all was well we were 25 metres deep and this rage of panic just struck me! You name it everything was getting me scared! I was worried about oxygen, I was worried about sharks, I was worried about death. I just regathered my thoughts and pulled through for another 10 mins but my jaw was feeling “weak” and unable to clench and water was coming into my mouth! I just said to myself “relax, relax, relax” I grabbed the guide roughly but calmly and signalled to go up. He put his thumbs up and instantly as we got to like 15 metres this huge “relief” came upon me and my jaw felt strong again (the mind is a powerful force let me tell you!) then we went snorkelling the next day and I literally told my wife “I don’t think I can dive that deep again” the only way to succeed in the waters is to get heaps of practice in a pool, a lot! And always calm down remain calm the mind freaks us out.
@BudgetGainsByJJ Wow, what a great reply. And thanks for sharing your story 👏.
What happens to me is when I start deciding, and when everything is very quiet, that's when it hits me. When the instructor told me to breathe slowly and held my hands, that's how I got relaxed and got my PADI advice licence. I need to face it one way or another. I can't run away forever. 🫡
@@user-ez1fm7jx5m yes when everything is quiet! We have the same fear and it’s simple: our minds overthink and our bodies start stressing out. I absolutely agree with you just face the fear and keep facing it until diving because purely a leisurely activity, like it was once for me. I have an opportunity to become a Navy Clearance Diver, I’ve always wanted to do it to face my fear but the thought of being 90 metres under water is just terrifying.
Would you say you’ve somewhat overcome this anxiety underwater a bit?
That's hard to watch seeing the panic in her eyes
I''d be curious to know why her natural instinct appeared to be immediately ripping her mask off. She tore that thing off with a vengeance. I can only assume it was flooded and that was at least part of the catalyst that sent her into full-blown panic. Glad she made it out okay.
I think she was feeling claustrophobic and like she couldn’t breath at that moment. Her instinct was to take a huge breath of fresh air. Step #1 remove mask while ascending. Step #2 Get head above surface, Step #3 breath.
I think your assumption must be correct, that her mask was filling with water. Can't imagine why else someone underwater would rip off the one thing they need to survive and breathe. Besides being "narc'd" but that wasn't an issue in this case. The way she was distracted when everyone else was doing the thumbs up to go to the surface makes me think it was water filling her vision line that was the distraction. Then, she panicked.
@@comfixit But wouldn't it make more sense if you are panicking underwater, to keep breathing until you get to the surface, and then rip your mask off and take a breath of fresh air? I've had quite a few panic attacks in my life, I know logic is not #1 in your mind during those moments of pure fear and discomfort, but she still knows she's pretty deep underwater. If she just wanted a breath of fresh air, she could go to the surface with her mask on, then rip it off only then, unless something was wrong with her mask. So I think the likelihood of her mask filling with water and she's unable or too panicked to correct it is potentially what made her panic and rip off her mask and flee for the surface
Ive never understood why a flooding mask invokes panic. Its just water. Purge your mask. simple. its the first skill taught for a reason. People who panic in those situations have zero business diving period. Its just not for you.
@@davidshoyt1979It's about understanding why this may invoke panic in others. It doesn't on you, and that's great, but other people have had different life experiences and different triggers that set them off.
A lot of the time, it's not even something that can be easily explained unless you know that person's history or childhood. For example, I go crazy around wasps. Like really deranged. It stems from when I was little and my mum telling me if a wasp stung me I would probably go into allergic shock and die. It's now all in my head and I have not been able to shake this irrational fear, or control my reactions.
Oh man... the thought of your goggles filling up with water and people already ascending ahead of you is enough to make me panic because I wouldn't be able to see and the thought of being left behind like that.... I'd be pretty scared in the moment, or praying.
You have to learn how to clear your goggles. Absolutely important. If you can't clear it completely for whatever reason, then you need to stay calm and not panic. On my very first open water dive in the ocean in Australia, I had a mask failure at about 20 meters (66 feet) and had a mask filled halfway with water. I didn't let it ruin my dive and stayed calm. I got another mask and finished the 2nd dive later in the day.
I had a student freak out and start to dart during mask clearing. I held him down and used my regular to clear his mask. He calmed down and continued class.
Thanks for sharing, NS. Well done!
This is off topic, but you look like Keegan-Michael Key. You guys could be brothers. Great video!
So funny...someone else told me that...
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo the resemblance is amazing.
I was thinking he looks like Jon Stewart
You also gotta remember " dry drowning"...when your throat shuts off completely. When exposed to water..
Had to go find this video so I could watch it without pausing 32 times
omg fr fr
I have never had a diver have this problem at this depth to this degree (thank God). I have had to put the reg back in their mouth, again not at this depth and the masks too! Oh man. That meant that she was also getting water in her sinuses making even more panic. I have had students do this type of thing early on in shallow water or pool.
I went through slow mo and stop action by frame. I saw it out on 6:35,41 and 45. And then in the final run at 8:04 in and 06 in and 07 out. Surfaced with no reg. Don’t know how much but we might have gotten a couple of breaths in there some pace. She would almost have to. Now it could be that as the air expanded that it did come out some on its own. That happens. But unless she were an accomplished free diver, she would have had a very hard time making it to the surface without inhaling or passing out. So my guess is she got some somewhere in there but not much.
When I do safety stop, I practice mack skills, removing put back on and cleaning
I thought you can’t get nitrogen narcosis at 15 meters ? Isn’t that still recreational diving and not dangerous. At what point do you have to start slowly ascending the water ?
Did her ear drum burst?
After watching the original it appears that At the tail end of the ascend she has the regulator in her mouth (hers not the camera persons) he has the gauge thingy (not a diver Idk what it’s called) in his hand adjusting it for her u can see him handling it as they reach the surface. As the video ends she’s tugging at the suit pulling it away from her neck…something happened to cause her panic..
Do you think diving has an age limit?
So is deep breathing and calming down one of the most important skills while scuba diving in your opinion? I have panic disorder but I want to learn to dive. I haven’t had a panic attack in 7 or 8 years bc I’m medicated but I can’t say for sure that I wouldn’t underwater. I’ve learned that you can literally trick your heart and brain into thinking that you’re calm when you’re not, just by deep breathing. When you trick your body into thinking you’re calm, it will naturally bring down your HR and BP and subsequently your breathing will slow.
Hi, Julia. Thanks for the comment/question. For sure, deep breathing and calm are important to scuba. Underwater is a pretty unfortunate place to have a panic attack, and I knowing many individuals with this challenge, I have a great deal fo empathy. For this reason, I definitely feel anyone with a panic condition should confer with their medical pacer partner to discuss the idea of scuba training. Best of luck, Julia.
PADI Open Water Scuba Instructor Cert here : did she run out of air at only 15M? I never saw the panic diver once look at her pressure gauge to check if she had air left in her tank ? If inexperienced she would have been looking like a locomotive at the bottom and her partner should have been aware of her high air usage= inexperience. I would have noticed that and checked her submersible pressure gauge at 15 min intervals at bottom it appears they joined the group in low visibility at the end of the dive and surfaced together.
Totally agree that Rescue Diver was the most important course that I took.
I think some form of communication needs to be created with hand gestures, lights, or vibrating device. Like sign language. That way, if you do run out of air (or have an emergency), you can signal to a buddy to lend you his hose or take whatever measures.
I'm may just an AOWD, but I already checked other divers since I did my OWD, I was a volunteer firefighter for more then 7 1/2 years, so it was a part of my routine to look around what the others do. I guess my experiance being a firefighter would help alot beinig a great diver and becoming a useful rescue diver.
Rescue diver is the most important qualification you can get
I’m not a diver. I have seen multiple dive training videos that have gone wrong . There is a common theme I see. There is only one instructor with a group. Seems to me if there is only one instructor then you should have a smaller group. Why take the risk of being distracted because your watching a flock.
HI CM...it's a fair point you raise. Each agency has ratio limits, prolly dictated at least partially by insurance requirements, for each kind of dive, the conditions, and if any training assistants are present. I agree, as you might be suggesting that, even though an instructor may be technically be within ratio standards, some instructors may not be up to task depending on their level of expertise and experience.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo yeah I was suggesting that. Just because you can based off guidelines doesn’t mean you straddle it.
Thanks, Jim! When I first saw this video I swear I could feel their fear; the splayed fingers, the wide eyes, the desperation. I hope that when I finally dive that I will be the kind of diver that has an almost OCD level of checking their meters and surroundings, but I also know that I am the kind of person that loses track of time. These videos help me understand what can go wrong and what could've or should've been done.
I am also hoping there will be a Tony Stark level of tech for my diving suit and equipment. Can't be too careful. :D
Lol...Tony Stark level! Hi Tammy. Thanks again for sending that one my way. So much can be (painlessly) learned from these kinds of vids 👍
that's such a great comment !! I also lose track of time and get distracted fairly easily (adhd) so thank you for pointing that out as a real concern to have !! I'm also paranoid as crazy so I usually do prepare like a maniac for everything but this would have slipped away from my list of awareness ! so I will definitely keep in mind that I get distracted so I should check in constantly and consistently with the dive master regardless of anything flashy or pretty that may catch my eye . This woman also seemed at first to be very preoccupied with what was on the bottom and just didn't get the signal and imagine if it's your first dive and the next thing you know you're left alone you gasp for air and swallow some water, I mean I can absolutely relate to her panicking because you can't even communicate your issue. I mean people having a panic attack on the surface can't usually find the energy to communicate or even just say "I'm having a panic attack!" to those around and then people usually do the worst thing which is surround you and bombard you with questions and concerns, in this scenario to have a panick attack and have someone grapple you makes the panic even worse even though in this case they're literally trying to save your life.. I think people should learn more free diving first perhaps ! I find that working with holding your breath helps soooo much to get to know your own body's reactions to panic and how unhelpful that is. And that if you force yourself to calm down you can far better orient yourself and find solutions. It's usually the fear of dying that's the issue which sounds obvious but the actual fear stems from the instinctive belief that you need oxygen this very second when in fact you can easily go without a breath for quite a bit longer and I feel like free diving teaching your body to override this subconscious belief that you will instantly die and give you those extra seconds which could literally make all the difference in the world in that scenario
I wouldn’t suggest practicing to hold your breath in diving , in any context.
Please always make sure to follow directions during training never play game with your life . The woman wasn’t playing attention and clearly didn’t have any idea what she was doing just a very sad situation.
When under water, why does a person spit the peg out, when that is your only source of air?
Do not force anyone down, up or prevent them from changing depth against their will! Never! Don't do it! You have no real idea the reasons even though you think you are smarter. Had someone insisted on holding her at depth she would have drowned for sure as she wasn't taking a reg. Embolizing is better than death. Support the diver's options to survive as best you can. One of my kids kept slowly floating towards the surface in shallow water. I gave him a slight tug to bring him down a few feet and he immediately panicked and pointed to his ear. I was now left with a dilemma. Did he have a squeeze from the descent or a reverse squeeze trying to ascend? Do i take him up or down? The answer was neither. I support his need and evaluation to solve the problem best he can. As a rescue diver I've assisted many people but I got a good lesson that day that i don't always know what's best or have all the info.
Hi Lars. Def interesting perspective. In a case like this, if someone spit a reg with even 1/2 full lungs from 15m, that seems a certain fatality if they make it to the surface without exhaling. For me, I guess it depends on the depth and the likelihood that they will exhale. I would have more confidence that someone with a reg in his or her mouth would exhale on the way up. Thanks for this post, food for thought.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo yes definitely the right choice to get a reg to her, but others suggested trying to keep her from surfacing. I know of an instructor who forcably kept a student from surfacing. She nearly died as i recall. Her reg was full of sand from the beach entry and she sucked it in. So IF you knew this girl's lungs were half full and IF you knew she wasn't going to exhale and IF she was going to embolize and die from it and IF you knew she was going to accept a reg before you drowned her, then i say to all those, by all means keep her from surfacing.
@@LarsDennert Sounds like you have some info I have not seen. Sand in the reg? Is there more reading on this event I'd definitely want to check it out if you have a link. Thanks, Lars.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo I suspect that @Lars Dennert is referring to an incident from a few years back in Monterey, CA. If not, then there at least two such incidents.
@@OrenNoah yes my link to the article refused to post. californiadiver.com/tragedy-at-the-breakwater/
I have apsolute none experience into diving but i was always wandering what would happen if lets say, 2 instructors lead a group of students, beginners into 15-20 meters depth and they see a big fish such as shark, okay, lets say it aint a great white but a shark, such as blue shark. How would you act yourself if one or more person start to panic because of all known potential dangers? Thank you
Didn't they come up pretty fast??
I was a DM on a dive and a customer made it to 60 feet on an 80 ft dive with the tank off, breathing only from the reg. She spit the reg and started flailing and I jumped on her and gave her my primary several times. She refused taking the reg, she was too panicked. I then grabbed her from the rear of the head with one hand, held my primary in my other hand and pressed the purge 100% and held the reg to her mouth and starting kicking like hell.
After a while I had a strange feeling in my chest and then realized that I had never put a reg in my mouth and I had been breathholding on the ascent. I secured my octo and got her to the surface as fast as I could swim. I tried pressing her inflator and it did not work on ascent, so I think I realized her tank was off at that point.
I could not see anything through all the bubbles which were blowing in her face. She ended up being fine.
W&W, this thread is filled with some incredible comments. I would never have imagined someone could get all the way down to 60ft with the air off. Was it a long hose rig?
And we almost lost you?! I’ve always wondered what ling expansion would feel like before any damage was done.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Nope, just a very small women with a 3500 psi tank, certified the week before... She said that after 4 inhalations it started to get hard to inhale, but she told herself she was imagining it because the gear was all brand new.
By the time she spit her reg, she had reached total panic and would/could not accept my second stage. After 3-4 attempt to donate were rejected, I just forced the reg against her lips with one hand, held the back of her head with the other, pressed the purge and started kicking like hell for the surface. I had no idea if she was going to be bloody foaming mess when we hit the surface.. but she was OK. All I could see was bubbles.
As we shoved her up on the platform, I reached up and turned her tank valve on - just in case she had complications.. didn't want others to know she entered the water with the tank off. Not exactly sure how that happened, but I didn't turn her tank off. I was terribly upset by the incident, probably more so than some diving fatalities I had been involved with. I was done for the day after one 90 second dive.
@@Speedospearo Oh, man, well done! I read about a fatality once with a tech diver (doubles and stages) who jumped off a boat with the air off and actually died before he was able to turn any air on, and he was apparently so heavy at the start of that dive with all the full air tanks. Amazing the stuff that can happen. Anyway, kudos on the heads up.
It did happened to me recently. We were at between 20 and 30 meters and in our way back when I ruined out of air. I had checked my gage and trout it said 250 . I knew I was running low and was looking to signal my partner and I suddenly felt no air coming. So I panicked and reach out quickly to grad his second stage. But because I was in a panic I could not breathe through the mouth. He did try to give me his other regulator but I could not do it. My reflex was not responding. The master diver grabbed me and we ascended quickly. Even at the surface he tried to make me breathe in the reg but II could not do it. I was only able to breathe from the nose. Once I calm down I was ok. I went back diving the same day. I blame my lack of experience , the fact that I did not have a way to know the depth I was at and also a gage that was difficult to read. I also need to practice exchanging regs under water.
PADI DM..have had it happen twice. Once on a DSD. Fortunately was only 12-15 ft. Was able to put reg back in and controlled descent. Happen so suddenly. Never really saw any indication it was about to go sideways!! No injuries. Second incident was on a dive I was leading with experienced divers. A rather large bull shark made his/her grand appearance!! And roughly 30 seconds I noticed a diver bolting to surface. He wasn't close enough for me to try and help. Plus I had other drivers in water. Had been 75-90 ft for 20 minutes roughly. Fortunately no injuries in that situation either. Guy was back on boat by the time I left water. He simply said the shark scared him. Never had seen a large shark before. I quietly question his stated experience. But at end of day he was ok. Needed a good wet suit rinse though I suppose!! Cheers
What’s up with the red balloon.
Her eyes...Jesus 😳 she is seriously panicking. I will not be scuba diving any time soon.
Maybe watch the video before reviewing it on line. Then you can say what your opinion is re if they have the regulator in etc.
I don't think she meant to spit the regulator out of her mouth. It appears she dislodged it from her mouth when pulling her mask down. She might have been trying to clear her mask when the dive leader was giving the ascent signal (obviously doing it incorrectly). I've dealt with out of air and uncontrolled descents in my 30yrs but was always able to get my buddy back to surface safely. Rescue course is the best course I've ever taken.
I love how everybody that talks about this incident uses the same thumbnail.
That was rough to watch. Try to aid as much as possible but never put yourself at risk. Rapid assenting like that from 15mts isn’t advisable. Assist if possible but if the person is bolting to the top sometimes it’s best to just let go and follow them at a safer assent rate.
So ALL of those divers had to ascend from that depth once she did, didn’t they? Or it appeared to be the case. Shew! So scary. Love her heart. I saw this video just recently on another channel but it still gave me anxiety.
I almost did the same thing, It was my fault I should've kept calm, but this was on my second begginer dive and it was on the last meter
what happened
@@justinmckibben4534 it was a excursion dive, I didn't have my cert yet, but I had done one before deeper and was fine, this time tho I kept getting salt water in my regulator the whole dive and at the last meter or so I took in a big swallow of water and tried to flush my regulator with no success so I did the classic panic bolt to the surface
I’ve asked this question several times and no one has answered it. I want to know why some divers when in panic mode begin to take off their mask , their breathing apparatus, tanks on their backs and in this case their head gear? I am not a diver but I suffer from panic attacks and when I am experiencing one I quickly go to flight mode. I drop everything and go outside and just walk. Being indoors feels too restrictive to me. But I don’t get urge to take off anything I am wearing. Hope this doesn’t sound like a silly question.
Hi Orando. Since no one replied (again), I will copy a comment from April A further up, because it's very well written: "(...) during panic the areas of the brain responsible for reasoned thought and executive function basically shut down. The amygdala and limbic system light up and those are instinctual ‘lizard brain’ parts of the brain. We’re land animals and normally something on your face, or in your mouth, is an obstruction. So it makes evolutionary sense to instinctively rip everything off, reg included. I don’t know if there is a good way to harness that energy because it is so primal.(...)"
Hope that helps. :)
So imagine that during your panic attack you are breathing from something stuck in your mouth, which you have to suck on to get air, looking through a restricted field of view in murky water with a mask on (which could be filling with water), maybe wearing a thick suit and a hood over your head. And you look up and see sunlight, and know that up there is the equivalent of "going outside". If you do not have strong self control and experience, there is a strong risk you might "drop everything and go outside (up)", in a hurry, stripping off what your lizard brain (now in charge) conceives as encumbrances preventing you from breathing freely as you go.
Struggling to sea if this is real I feel like it is but I just can’t put a finger on it what do you guys think
I am not am instructor but I had a panic attack on my deep dive cert (I can’t stand hoods) but was “encouraged “ to wear one but I had an excellent instructor focused on his eyes relaxed after an hour and convincing everyone I could dive without a hood did my dives and went back next day did them again did my knots at depth and everything was cool
Hi Ivory! Thanks for adding your experience. Yup, lots of folks have a hard time with hoods, especially in their first year or two of diving. Glad you made it through that one!
I don't like a full hood unless it is less than 50F. I wear a surf cap on most cool dives. It is much more comfortable. Just sat it took over 500 dives to discover these. www.amazon.com/Henderson-Thermoprene-Sport-Cap-2-5mm/dp/B073RRWWP7/ref=mp_s_a_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=wetsuit+cap&qid=1624510369&sr=8-13
@@ns4854 thank you so much for the suggestion that is exactly what I need
So scary. That would be me under water and why I won’t ever dive. Ever.
Refuses the reg freaking out. No chance should she be certified. That's an incredible amount of panic out of nowhere.
Absolutely horrifying
great knowledge. i know nothing about diving but i will be eagerly learning how to in the near future, your videos are providing me with a powerful reminder of the effort and concentration that will be required of me. thanks.
So nice of you to say, CLuve. Hope you stick around as long as the vids are interesting and useful to you. Best of luck with your diving adventure once it begins 👍
Its impossible to put a reg back into the mouth of a full blown paniced diver. The mask and reg does not feel normal to them and thats why they throw them away. To a paniced diver, the act of putting the reg back feels like your trying to cover their mouth with your hand to stop them breathing. The only real option is get them to the surface ASAP by any means before they drown, not slow them down. When I teach, I make sure that Im the last diver to go up in the group. In this situation she would not of felt left alone. She would of still felt safe as she was still together with her instructor and not paniced.
Hmmmmm.... sounds to me like you have far less experience than most I've seen bc they all say complete opposite
@@dazzlingextremes389Do you know how to dive? I've only been teaching Padi for 15 years. Started in 2004 and my last course was a few weeks ago at night in almost frozen water. I'm an active cave diver with over 3000 dives in total.
I have had a few panicked divers in my time. Often on their holidays and not been in the water for some time. They are not always beginners! Most act wild with no logic which is why you are taught not to put your mask on you forehead as it's a sign of a panicked diver.
l did have one that spat out their reg at 5m and stared blankly into the blue. I almost missed it. I was able to put the reg back though that time. Basically the longer l teach the more l realise how little l know.
I don't know anything about diving, but very familiar with panic, but I can't understand why she would remove her mask and air?
Ive watched too many horror stories to even think about diving period
When somebody spits out a reg possibly does it because in his panic feels that he has no enough air to breath.
Perhaps stress goes first, hyperventilation follows and panic strikes. After this, there is the non return point. If nothing is done and situation goes further, Instinct takes control, the reg simply does not give the air you request, hypercapnia might happen or not, survival reaction appears you close your mouth, hold your breath and surface… For your life.
At that point there is not much to do. Surfacing exposes the diver to lung damages, keep him on the same level, will make him vanish in a few seconds and we will be in a RCP scenario.
As a diveleader is very easy to see the video and talk. Never forget that every dive is different and the context is also important. How was the diving, the day, delays, visibility, why is this underskilled diver in so bad visibility conditions, business is business, how many people you have in the group, how do you feel that day and suddenly a huge problem pops up and you have two seconds to react. Slow down the climbing, keep yourself alive and pray. You go all the way up praying to have a living diver on the surface hopefully not spitting blood.
One key is on the previous signals. The orher is on you reading the signals and taking the decision to interrupt a dive to try to reconduct the situation or finally cancelling it with all the consequences it also has. Extreme panic management is just a matter of training, knowledge, skills and luck.
Wow not sure why you would split a reg and pull the mask off? Convolsuon maybe ? Murky greenwater doesn't help.
Hi Mark. I was just recently talking to a diver who suffered a panic attack...and they said it made no logical sense, but their overwhelming urge was to spit the reg and get to the surface for a more comfortable air source.
a post above suggested she pulled the mask down over her face - doing that pushed or pulled the reg out of her mouth
@@philipnicholson3216 Yup, that makes sense...
don't forget breathing underwater is 'unnatural'. You're overriding your bodies natural instinct.
@@yvonnesanders4308 not for a Diver.
The thumbnail is terrifying
It is, isn't' it. BTW...love your UA-cam name, 132...
Phew that was scary. Maybe the low vis freaked her out. I wish they had said what caused her to panic. I am only guessing .
To be a diver I would assume that low trait neuroticism is a must-have. I have an interest in diving but I know I’m more mid range in trait neuroticism so it would be a no go for me.
Yikes. Stop, Breathe, Think, Act. As long as your reg is working and you are breathing, you are going to be fine. Breathe and Chill. (And NEVER hold your breath in Scuba). Exhale on way up.
My diver instructor in the early 80's was a retired navy diver. He was tough on us (all young guys) and would rips our masks and regs out in the pool to get us acquainted with things going wrong under water.
My wife got her certification about 10 years later and I remember thinking how easy they had it.
if you are an instructor, this won't be the first, nor the last time you will see this scenario. Practice and plan your response with a buddy simulating panicked diver!
wow, i dont know what would go thru someones head to make them tare of the mask and air
Purge the regulator in front of their mouth. then hold the back of the tank and try and slow the accent a tiny bit, at least from that depth. Any deeper and your in big trouble.