Do adventure riders want an automatic transmission? Spurg and Zack discuss the new KTM AMT Super Adventure during the Not the News segment of Highside/Lowside.
My guess is the majority do not want automatics (me included) but by all means, have the option! So in case of removing manual completely, i hope not. But to be able to choose? Sure.
Hondas e clutch is the best option. Clutch when you want, auto when you don’t. I had a rebel with dct and it was smoother and faster than any human but very boring. I want a clutch sometimes.
Possibly, but I don't think that a manual gearbox is what's keeping older people away from adventure bikes. I'd look more towards the weight and size...
when I go adventure riding on my klr the last thing I think about is the clutch and shifter. I'm focused on standing up on the pegs and keeping that 450+ pound bike upright. I've had to pick it up a few times and its not the easiest. The weight and size is the number 1 issue for adv bikes.
@@jmwn2174 I think a lot of people are extremely limited with their finger strength, especially with frequent prolonged usage like the clutch. Obviously the front brakes get used a lot too, but for the most part you can adapt your riding to use them less if need be
My issue is that clutch control is critical to any amount of off roading beyond hard packed dirt or gravel. Showing me wheelies and jumps or power slides through gravel corners does nothing to prove it works in more rugged off road settings. For example, Enduro or any kind of single track. Being able to manipulate power delivery to the rear via my clutch is the only way I know of to get out of the ruts and holes I've gotten my GSA in.
You can achieve the same with DCT but you need to learn very good throttle control and adjust the user modes, I started with clutch and moved to DCT and I can do everything with DCT now
I bought an Africa twin DCT after 18 years riding manual and i love it. I have left shoulder problems (not at all from falling off 😅), made a lot worse with heavy clutch use. Not having to worry about that has made riding so much more comfortable and with the shift buttons and an option to get a foot shift lever installed i don't think I'll be going back any time soon. If you don't like it cool, buy a manual, but for me it was a no brainer after a test drive.
The folks that have tried the Honda DCTs have been loving them. I could see them becoming very popular with ADV and touring guys. I was very pleased with my test ride of a Honda nx700 DCT. I ended up buying an MT-07, though. Reasons.
Big supporter of dct. I work in healthcare as a surgical technologist. I scrub a lot of orthopedic and podiatry cases where patients for whatever reason lose part or all of their left foot (can be diabetes, traumatic injury from a motorcycle accident and I’ve seen injuries from lawnmowers, pressure washers, saws, foot crushing injuries. ) Most of the motorcyclists I help take care will tell me they don’t want to give up riding. Sometimes they are more upset about not being able to ride than they are about losing part or all of their foot. So I talk to them about DCT motorcycles. And how they won’t be limited to cvt scooters and trikes, or limited range electric motorcycles. But how if they like touring bikes they can get a Honda nc750x or if they like cruisers can get a Honda rebel 1100 dct. Or if they like dual sports or ADV bikes that there is a dct version of the Africa twin. Lower leg injuries aside. Depending on the kind of riding you’re doing you might actually enjoy dct. It’s great for people who stand for long days at work but want to be able to ride to and from work because you don’t have to shift with you foot after standing up all day. Also if you’re mainly taking long trips where 95% of the time you’re cruising in the same gear dct might also be for you because you aren’t shifting much once you get on the highway or back country roads anyways. Lot of off-road riding is similar. I’ve spent more time riding motorcross bikes and dual sports and when cruising trails I often keep it in 2nd or 3rd gear depending on the bike and terrain.
I definitely want it to be available for people who need it but I personally don't want one. I even turned off the quick shifter on my bike. The clutch and rev matching and whatnot are a critical part of the experience for me!
The progress in motorcycles has really been moving along the last 20 years. Brakes, better suspension, computer interfaces, and more bikes having auto transmissions. There is nothing wrong with more choices.
I don't want to be told what I ought to think. I can think for myself. Happy to hear the opinions of others. I don't care for opinions of people who claim to be influencers. Influencers tell lies of omission... And are often paid to say things.
About time. Makes riding easier, safer, more enjoyable. I ride clutch, DCT and CVT and each one has its place. But for me I like to sit back and enjoy the ride and not fumble with gears like an old tractor.
I regret buying a Honda with DCT I like the bike but wish I got the standard version. When I ride now I only uses the bike in manual mode anyway using the buttons but I would have preferred a foot operated gear lever.
It's a good thing for beginners, but it should be reserved for 500cc or below standard bikes (Nakeds in dork terms), available on all cruisers, sports bikes and faster applications are iffy, I'll let others argue that out.
When I was buying my first motorcycle(grom) me and the salesman were talking about the Africa twin. He said the dct sells WAY MORE than the manual. Like 10:1.
They do work they are probably better than most riders can ever be on loose surfaces. Issue is we don't ride for maximum efficiency, we have priuses for that. We ride to have fun, and an auto is not fun 😮
I think automatics make a fair bit of sense on other types of bikes, but KTM had to put it on a big ADV first because that is where people expect to find all the latest tech.
If there's a market for it then why not 🤷♂️ but especially for an ADV if they really want to maximize its utility they should design it to still have a clutch lever so you don't lose the maneuverability that advanced clutch/throttle techniques grant you off road.
I know it’s not what I want on my bike… not yet anyway 😅. I’m 47 so maybe in 20 years I’d really appreciate an automatic 🤙🏾. It’s just evolution.. we all have to adapt 😉
The days of manual clutch are numbered. There is no benefit from it. Clutchless manual is fine. QS is not enough because it still requires holding the clutch at full stops.
I want something with a scooter transmission but with off road capability because my city doesn't fix the roads but instead builds hundreds of miles of empty bicycle lanes. In fact they tear the streets up and make them worse. A KLR with auto would be amazing.
I think Honda's e clutch is a better option rather than full automatic. Especially in Adventure and off-road biased riding having manual control over the gears is far more better than the bike choosing gears for you in my opinion. Lets see how this new technology evolves over the years.
Automatic transmissions on a motorcycle kinda make me feel kinda sad and old(er). But for some folks who can no longer ride because of physical limitations, automatic transmissions may be a godsend. So, there’s that. Technology marches on, seldom an unalloyed good, but good on whole. 😃
with e-clutch the transmission stays the same, but clutch action is handled by computer and if you want to do so you can operate clutch just like any other normal motorcycle
So yeah... Automatic transmission, DCT, DSG and others, they're all nice and good but, when are we gonna see a Yamaha T9 ? Or a T10. The T7 is a wonderful bike especially the world raid but we need more power. The xt1200 (super-ténéré) is to heavy but also a wonderful bike. Come on people , let's see a Ténéré 900
Why motorcyclist are so uptight and butt hurt about automatic motorcycle is beyond me. Automatics will allow more people to be introduced to motorcycling, which is good for the manufacturers and the riders.
Why are some people so pro-inclusivity? At some point when the trails are overrun or getting shut down because people don’t like the noise etc. and we have no where left to ride, or it’s not enjoyable because the trails are too clogged are you gonna be singing the joys of “making things more accessible” then? Screw all that shit. Learn how to ride a manual bike or don’t ride at all. I’m so tired of “lowering the bar of entry” to the lowest common denominators. It’s so lame.
Coming from the road going side, automatics making it accessible seems like a bad thing, the amount of clueless people you already see, failing miserably... Now imagine that with the crutch of not needing to have skill.
@@ESTrashfire13 - yeah, but imagine how many “cool” influencers will now be able to ride motorcycles and make sweet instagram posts where they’re standing next to their bike in some scenic spot that they’ll tell the whole world about 😏
Just drive a car at this point, traction control, abs, heated grips, stereos, gps, backrests, automatic, windshield, key fob, Bluetooth, etc.. You can't keep reliability, affordable, and a better rider if everything is done for you.
It depends in eu with roundabout in every 100 meters i love automatic in cars for daily. But bike is different story i take for fun and be open/connected so manual
A manual doesn't make you any more "in control" than an automatic that lets you select gears - you're getting the same result both ways, just slower and less smoothly if you do it yourself.
@@ARCNA442 Some of automatics I have tried will switch back to automatic when if I don't switch up, or down for a short while. Also easier to know what gear I am in with manual. I drive a bunch in mountains, and off road. Been driving stick for 25 years, so it's just become the norm for me. I don't drive fast, so being smooth is very easy for me, as I drove professionally with passengers for years. Always with great feedback from customers.
Auto in cars and mopeds are fine, in motorcycles. No, actually hell no. That's no fun to twist and go, I like being in full control of the machine and feel better doing it. They are as lame as electric bikes.
No, I do not want an auto. I also don't want traction control, quick shifters, and I'm borderline on ABS. My new Jeep is a manual, factory ordered. My van would be if there was room in the footwell for a clutch (manual swap).
Mopeds been rocking the auto for decades
DCT on adventures vs CVT on scooters though
@@moolcoolsemi auto on underbone
*Yes. Mopeds: the point of enticement for those who want to dabble with two-wheels.*
Only Honda has DCT , BMW and KTM have the robotic auto transmission
My guess is the majority do not want automatics (me included) but by all means, have the option! So in case of removing manual completely, i hope not. But to be able to choose? Sure.
It just makes both versions more expensive as then they have more RD and products etc.
Hondas e clutch is the best option. Clutch when you want, auto when you don’t. I had a rebel with dct and it was smoother and faster than any human but very boring. I want a clutch sometimes.
Dct and e clutch aren't the same thing
@@leoaksil4085 That's what he said :D
Eclutch is not fully automatic though you still need to shift
I think they make adventure riding more accessible. Especially to older folks.
Possibly, but I don't think that a manual gearbox is what's keeping older people away from adventure bikes. I'd look more towards the weight and size...
@@jmwn2174Yeah, I don’t believe that’s the main issue.
when I go adventure riding on my klr the last thing I think about is the clutch and shifter. I'm focused on standing up on the pegs and keeping that 450+ pound bike upright. I've had to pick it up a few times and its not the easiest. The weight and size is the number 1 issue for adv bikes.
@@jmwn2174 I think a lot of people are extremely limited with their finger strength, especially with frequent prolonged usage like the clutch. Obviously the front brakes get used a lot too, but for the most part you can adapt your riding to use them less if need be
A KTM automatic transmission, I'm sure that won't have any issues....
This should be the top comment lol
My issue is that clutch control is critical to any amount of off roading beyond hard packed dirt or gravel. Showing me wheelies and jumps or power slides through gravel corners does nothing to prove it works in more rugged off road settings. For example, Enduro or any kind of single track. Being able to manipulate power delivery to the rear via my clutch is the only way I know of to get out of the ruts and holes I've gotten my GSA in.
Seen a dirt bike with Rekluse auto clutch?
@@sk8moto not really the same thing. DCT is 100% automatic. Rekluse isn't
You can achieve the same with DCT but you need to learn very good throttle control and adjust the user modes, I started with clutch and moved to DCT and I can do everything with DCT now
I love the DCT on the Africa twin. Shifts way better than me.
It makes it accessible but it makes proficiency in off-road riding much more tricky. The clutch is for more than just shifting.
I bought an Africa twin DCT after 18 years riding manual and i love it. I have left shoulder problems (not at all from falling off 😅), made a lot worse with heavy clutch use. Not having to worry about that has made riding so much more comfortable and with the shift buttons and an option to get a foot shift lever installed i don't think I'll be going back any time soon.
If you don't like it cool, buy a manual, but for me it was a no brainer after a test drive.
The folks that have tried the Honda DCTs have been loving them. I could see them becoming very popular with ADV and touring guys. I was very pleased with my test ride of a Honda nx700 DCT. I ended up buying an MT-07, though. Reasons.
I've got one. It's amazing.
I know honda's been pioneering the dual clutch for moyorcycles now. But imagine a CVT in a goldwing, that would be smooth as butter
Big supporter of dct. I work in healthcare as a surgical technologist. I scrub a lot of orthopedic and podiatry cases where patients for whatever reason lose part or all of their left foot (can be diabetes, traumatic injury from a motorcycle accident and I’ve seen injuries from lawnmowers, pressure washers, saws, foot crushing injuries. )
Most of the motorcyclists I help take care will tell me they don’t want to give up riding. Sometimes they are more upset about not being able to ride than they are about losing part or all of their foot. So I talk to them about DCT motorcycles. And how they won’t be limited to cvt scooters and trikes, or limited range electric motorcycles. But how if they like touring bikes they can get a Honda nc750x or if they like cruisers can get a Honda rebel 1100 dct. Or if they like dual sports or ADV bikes that there is a dct version of the Africa twin.
Lower leg injuries aside. Depending on the kind of riding you’re doing you might actually enjoy dct. It’s great for people who stand for long days at work but want to be able to ride to and from work because you don’t have to shift with you foot after standing up all day. Also if you’re mainly taking long trips where 95% of the time you’re cruising in the same gear dct might also be for you because you aren’t shifting much once you get on the highway or back country roads anyways. Lot of off-road riding is similar. I’ve spent more time riding motorcross bikes and dual sports and when cruising trails I often keep it in 2nd or 3rd gear depending on the bike and terrain.
I definitely want it to be available for people who need it but I personally don't want one. I even turned off the quick shifter on my bike. The clutch and rev matching and whatnot are a critical part of the experience for me!
Yes. We need them. Great for heavy traffic on highway.
No matter what people say it will always increase cost and maintenance
The progress in motorcycles has really been moving along the last 20 years. Brakes, better suspension, computer interfaces, and more bikes having auto transmissions. There is nothing wrong with more choices.
I hate all the new electronics on bikes most you don't have a choice, and it increases the price to almost double.
I don't want to be told what I ought to think. I can think for myself. Happy to hear the opinions of others. I don't care for opinions of people who claim to be influencers. Influencers tell lies of omission... And are often paid to say things.
About time. Makes riding easier, safer, more enjoyable. I ride clutch, DCT and CVT and each one has its place. But for me I like to sit back and enjoy the ride and not fumble with gears like an old tractor.
I regret buying a Honda with DCT I like the bike but wish I got the standard version. When I ride now I only uses the bike in manual mode anyway using the buttons but I would have preferred a foot operated gear lever.
Don't some of the bikes have a foot shifting option or accessory?
Manual for me.
It's a good thing for beginners, but it should be reserved for 500cc or below standard bikes (Nakeds in dork terms), available on all cruisers, sports bikes and faster applications are iffy, I'll let others argue that out.
When I was buying my first motorcycle(grom) me and the salesman were talking about the Africa twin. He said the dct sells WAY MORE than the manual. Like 10:1.
Lowering the barrier to entry is the only way to keep the motorcycle industry from shrinking at this point.
I would love to see it as an option on all bikes
What happened to Lemme?? We want Lemme!!!
i mean. i think they do work, since there is already a DCT on Africa Twin.
I say if it gets more people on two wheels, it’s a good thing!!! I’d not complain if I woke up tomorrow and my DR650 was an auto. 😁
They do work they are probably better than most riders can ever be on loose surfaces. Issue is we don't ride for maximum efficiency, we have priuses for that. We ride to have fun, and an auto is not fun 😮
I'm not surprised that people get mad at something new. I've met enough people to know how braindead the general public is.
Haven’t tried it yet I’m betting on dual sports it would be great .
I think automatics make a fair bit of sense on other types of bikes, but KTM had to put it on a big ADV first because that is where people expect to find all the latest tech.
Africa Twin already had an auto back in 2016
KTM isn't first
If there's a market for it then why not 🤷♂️ but especially for an ADV if they really want to maximize its utility they should design it to still have a clutch lever so you don't lose the maneuverability that advanced clutch/throttle techniques grant you off road.
I used to race with your dad at loudon.
I'll have to check that out!
Hell yeah, we want automatics. I sure do.
Do autos make more sense offroad? Like if you're doing low speed technical stuff and rocky terrain does anyone else get a sore hand after a day?
The problem is that autos will never have the torque response that riding the clutch does. Electric will but not autos.
Like a cvt? Or gear change by buttons? Or it picks for you. Calling it an automatic transmission means almost nothing other than no shift lever
Love the Hydro Static on a Zero turn lawnmower but I would feel like Pee Wee Hurman in a Police chase.
I know it’s not what I want on my bike… not yet anyway 😅. I’m 47 so maybe in 20 years I’d really appreciate an automatic 🤙🏾.
It’s just evolution.. we all have to adapt 😉
The days of manual clutch are numbered. There is no benefit from it. Clutchless manual is fine. QS is not enough because it still requires holding the clutch at full stops.
I wish it was missing faulty camshafts instead of a clutch
Yes I want it 👍
Do they work and are they fun to ride are 2 very different questions 😅
Love my africa twin with dct
Honda dct have paddle shifters/ manual mode
I wouldnt mind automatic gear box. But I m getting old 😂
I want something with a scooter transmission but with off road capability because my city doesn't fix the roads but instead builds hundreds of miles of empty bicycle lanes. In fact they tear the streets up and make them worse. A KLR with auto would be amazing.
For me, One of the best things about riding is striving for the perfect shifts. No thanks
I think Honda's e clutch is a better option rather than full automatic. Especially in Adventure and off-road biased riding having manual control over the gears is far more better than the bike choosing gears for you in my opinion. Lets see how this new technology evolves over the years.
Hello DCT?
I just want a bike, bro. 😅
Don't care what transmission it has!
Loved my recluse
Automatic transmissions on a motorcycle kinda make me feel kinda sad and old(er). But for some folks who can no longer ride because of physical limitations, automatic transmissions may be a godsend. So, there’s that. Technology marches on, seldom an unalloyed good, but good on whole. 😃
What's the difference between their usual DCT auto transmission and the new e clutch thing that Honda has?
with e-clutch the transmission stays the same, but clutch action is handled by computer and if you want to do so you can operate clutch just like any other normal motorcycle
So yeah... Automatic transmission, DCT, DSG and others, they're all nice and good but, when are we gonna see a Yamaha T9 ? Or a T10. The T7 is a wonderful bike especially the world raid but we need more power. The xt1200 (super-ténéré) is to heavy but also a wonderful bike. Come on people , let's see a Ténéré 900
Running out of new tech to bolt on to justify the upgrades, they’re now looking to old tech to bolt on.
Glad it’s an option but not for me so far….
HONDA X-ADV, bring it.
Off roading on easy mode
No way.
Do they work, yep. Do I want one, nope
Auto transmissions already exist. They called scooters.
Why motorcyclist are so uptight and butt hurt about automatic motorcycle is beyond me. Automatics will allow more people to be introduced to motorcycling, which is good for the manufacturers and the riders.
I don't know tbh, I'd rather the ones on road are the ones willing to learn it. Smooth brain auto riders can stay away 😂
Why are some people so pro-inclusivity? At some point when the trails are overrun or getting shut down because people don’t like the noise etc. and we have no where left to ride, or it’s not enjoyable because the trails are too clogged are you gonna be singing the joys of “making things more accessible” then? Screw all that shit. Learn how to ride a manual bike or don’t ride at all. I’m so tired of “lowering the bar of entry” to the lowest common denominators. It’s so lame.
Is it really the manual transmission that is preventing people from riding? Really? No. It's not.
Coming from the road going side, automatics making it accessible seems like a bad thing, the amount of clueless people you already see, failing miserably... Now imagine that with the crutch of not needing to have skill.
@@ESTrashfire13 - yeah, but imagine how many “cool” influencers will now be able to ride motorcycles and make sweet instagram posts where they’re standing next to their bike in some scenic spot that they’ll tell the whole world about 😏
To everyone who hates on automatics, but thinks quickshifters are sick...yeah, you're a hypocrite.
Noooooooo
Just don't buy them. A clutch is really not difficult to use.
And you open up motorcycling to entire generation that has grown up with nothing but automatic transmission cars 🤔 !?
Just drive a car at this point, traction control, abs, heated grips, stereos, gps, backrests, automatic, windshield, key fob, Bluetooth, etc.. You can't keep reliability, affordable, and a better rider if everything is done for you.
I don't even like automatic in cars
I wanna be in control of the machine
Don't wanna be the middle man
It depends in eu with roundabout in every 100 meters i love automatic in cars for daily. But bike is different story i take for fun and be open/connected so manual
I live in an area with lots of stop and go traffic, I prefer the manual in those situations @@sladewilson8241
A manual doesn't make you any more "in control" than an automatic that lets you select gears - you're getting the same result both ways, just slower and less smoothly if you do it yourself.
@@ARCNA442 Some of automatics I have tried will switch back to automatic when if I don't switch up, or down for a short while. Also easier to know what gear I am in with manual. I drive a bunch in mountains, and off road. Been driving stick for 25 years, so it's just become the norm for me. I don't drive fast, so being smooth is very easy for me, as I drove professionally with passengers for years. Always with great feedback from customers.
Auto in cars and mopeds are fine, in motorcycles. No, actually hell no. That's no fun to twist and go, I like being in full control of the machine and feel better doing it. They are as lame as electric bikes.
No, I do not want an auto. I also don't want traction control, quick shifters, and I'm borderline on ABS.
My new Jeep is a manual, factory ordered. My van would be if there was room in the footwell for a clutch (manual swap).
Automatics are almost as stupid as electric bikes
It'll be junk like everything KTM makes
Joe Rogan rides automatic
You should look up Joe Rogan's Sharkwerks GT3 RS.
I'm not sure if you are using this to promote an auto, or insult Joe
@JoshuaTootell I couldn't tell either lmao
Gross
No one wanted the Hondamatics. No one wanted the Moto Guzzi Convert