The SSPX
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- A background on the history of the SSPX and how to solve the issue between the SSPX & Rome.
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I'm 100% certain the Archbishop will be canonized when the church regains its scruples, it's very obvious just looking at him that he was a saintly man and the events of Vatican II specifically the new mass broke his heart
Take a look at the 1986 Assisi prayer meeting. False religions are not equal to the Catholic Church. It it were possible to resurrect the first 260 popes they would have declared John XXIII all the way up to Benedict XVI as heretics and would immediately remove the canonization of people like JP2 and Mother teresa who were blatant heretics. If JP2 is in heaven and Marcel Levebvre is in hell then we truly worship a God of injustice.
I wouldn’t be Jorge Bergoglio when he met God
@Holy League Who here is argueing for sedevacantism?
@Christian oi do you have that MC vid of your cathedral?
Jesus rebukes the Latin mass
Jesus disputed and rebuked the Pharisees for their rigid approach to worship and the Sabbath (Mark 2:28). One of the rigid beliefs of the Pharisees is that scripture can only be read or prayed in Hebrew. Traditionalism has the same belief of the mass, a rigid belief that it can only be said in Latin.
Cardinal Edouard Gagnon was sent by the pope to talk Archbishop Lefebvre into accepting the Vatican’s wishes and conditions for the future of his religious movement. Cardinal Gagnon returned to Rome and gave a GLOWINGLY POSITIVE REPORT on the SSPX, its founder, and its seminary.
The SSPX continues Catholicism as it has been for 1987 years.
lol
@@trnslash
Rather rude to just laugh at people without explaining your dissension.
That no censure is imposed in cases of necessity or grave fear is also found in 1917 Codex Judicis Canonici. Also, FSSPX accepts, at least nominally, 1983 CIC- they merely prefer to abide by 1917 (in other words, they will NOT tell the Faithful they must abide by, for instance, the regulations on fasting found under 1917 CIC, though they will recommend the practice, as it is most pious and salutary).
In attending an sspx mass, does the creed recitation include Pope Francis equating with Truth?
@@roylikesitlikethat I too would like to know that ? Does it ????
@@TheShereen1964Yes they mention the Pope in mass.
The Proddy practice of Facing the congregation is like Lording over them, rather than Facing the same direction of the congregation: towards the Host.
Not bad, but still kind of half baked. One initial error is that the founding of the Society had the main purpose of preserving the old Mass when in fact it was to preserve the Catholic priesthood. The objections to Vatican II are about the novelties in doctrine that were introduced and that were already condemned by the Church. The term "schism" is bandied about here but the fact is, there is no schism by the SSPX. It could be argued that the Papacy and hierarchy is mostly in schism from the Traditions of the Catholic Church and also from the Magisterium. If we take the long view, the SSPX, as imperfect as it is, is God's work to preserve the Faith of this generation, which is a generation in apostacy from the Faith. Catholics have dropped away in droves to either nothing or to the Protestant heresy.
If that's the argument then arianism, the Orthodox, the Protestants, etc are also the true church. So Christ's Church was dead from the get go since everyone who has schismed has made similar arguments, they're just newer. I didn't know sspx thought that the Church is in schism and that like the sedes they are the true church now
@@nenabunena Actually with Arianism the vast majority of Bishops were Arians (and the Pope at the time would not condemn them till later). So there is a time in the past where most of what appeared to be the Church was in heresy.
Not when Lefebvre was never a valid priest to begin with
@@jrlomy2k what? Ridiculous assertion that no serious person has ever advanced
@pio1483 Marcel himself said he had no papal mandate. No mandate no ordinations. He was ordained by a known freemason, so there's that
The Society of St. Pius X bestows a blessing of Christian health in the following of Biblical truth.
The dispute wasn't just about the "old" Mass, was it? It is also about the teachings / authority of the Second Vatican Council, right ??
FSSPX raised Dogmatic issues with "Vatican II" from the start. Abp. Lefebvre refused to sign the documents on ecumenism. Bp. de Castro Mayer (who assisted at the Econe Consecrations) refused to sign any of the documents.
FSSPX did not challenge the authority of Rome, because "Vatican II" (I use quotes as my opinion- though not that of the Society, as far as I know- is that it is not a Council of the Church; the same is maintained by Mons. Hesse), by its own admission, defined no Dogmas and condemned no errors.
Additionally, FSSPX was never schismatic (Cdn. Lara, President, Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of Canon Law, in 1988 stated "The Consecration of Bishops [without a Papal mandate] is not of itself a schismatic act.").
Michael Rex you stated..."The Consecration of Bishops [without a Papal mandate] is not of itself a schismatic act.")....this will oppose St. Ignatius of Antioch position please see below for your ref....
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. -Letter to the Smyrnaeans, (St. Ignatius of Antioch)
Obedience to Church Hierarchy is implored....much more to the Vicar of Christ...as St. Ambrose said...
Ubi Petrus, Ibi Ecclesia, Ibi Deus” St. Ambrose means “Where Peter is, there is the Church, there is God.” It serves as a strong reminder of the importance of the papacy to the Catholic Church..God bless!
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REPLY
Jong Ricafort if a Bishop told you that contraception is ok, would you then deem it to be ok?
If a Bishop told you that being Catholic to attain eternal salvation isn't necessary, would you then deem it not necessary?
Max Wylde "challenged Church authority and became no different than Protestants."
What Protestant sect do you know of that believes in the Catholic Faith as a whole? Is there one that I'm not aware of?
Rob your proposition is not in the realm yet...that's hypothetical...we are not blind...but in the areas where the interpretation of doctrines matters & challenged...we have to distrust ourselves our opinion does not really matters as priority...why? check your bible whom Jesus entrusted the TRUTH? it's not to individuals....it has been given to the Church...and the Church Authority although human & may commit errors due to the snares & wiles of the devil...Jesus made a two promises One for Peter, Jesus assured Peter that Jesus will pray that his faith will not fail...the second promise...Jesus made a promised to the His Church Mt16:18....now if you are an individual who claimed to know better that the Church Magisterium & Pope...can you site me a biblical reference that Jesus promised that an individual will be the Pillar of Truth in matters of interpreting the doctrines?
This internal matter will resolve when a Pope anathamatizes the errors in the second Vatican council. Don't hold your breath.
And that will happen when Russia is consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
@@Steve_Milo
But it will be late
Archbishop Lefebvre did not act "out of fear" but out of prudence! It was an incredible act of heroism to do what he did. He was saintly!
The SSPX is not is schism and never has been. That has been proven ad nauseum.
Can you point me in the direction of that proof? I am sincere.
@@Airman1121 An emissary of the Pope said recently about the FSSPX that the Holy Father told him “They’re not in schism”. So…yeah
@@lauroantoniocavalcante2670 Could you please provide a link?
It is though
The bishops and priests were not Excommunicated. It was unlawful.
Best part of this episode.
I believe in the case of Bishop Lefebvre, he did act courageously to preserve the Traditional Latin Mass and had the right to consecrate new bishops under "emergency use" that the Church grants as the intention. As an example, a priest on a sinking ship can give general absolution to everyone if they fulfill the given penance, perhaps 3 Hail Marys. The priest does not have such faculties otherwise and if all aboard are rescued the general absolution stands. It is the principle that must be upheld.
Well I think that if you consider the promise made by Rome to the SSP to consecrate à BP and that to this.day, nearly 30 years later, they do not have yet a consacrated BP, I think that that would work in favor of ABP Lefebvre, not lost of nerves but at having had a good reading of what was going on...that they were just waiting for him to die.
Another point that you brought out Charles is to determine whether or not JP II excommunication of ABP Lefebvre was « ultra virage »! For that important to determine if the changes of Canon Law with regards to the consécration of Bishops by JPII was ultra virage or not. God bless!
Charles I think that hind sight supports the position that ABP Lefebvre ‘s so called fear, was objective. In support look at what Rome did to the SSP. Were they not 25 (+/-) years ago, promised a Bishop? Where is it? God bless.
Per favore si possono avere i sottotitoli in Italiano ? Grazie Sia Lodato Gesù Cristo
Excellent episode.
There were a good many Indults granted by Paul VI/Bp Bugini as head of Congregration for Rites. The widest was the so called 'Agatha Christie Indult' which came after a number of non Catholic English people including Ms Christie who loved the Mass petitioned the Pope. It was that a Mass of All Time could be said anyway in England and Wales subject to permission from he ordinary. I think the Missal permitted was the 1964 Missal, but some Masses of the Use of Salisbury were said under the dispensation.
There were pretty severe restrictions applied to that indult. For one, it could only apply on Sundays, only one TLM per diocese was allowed, there was to be no advertising or broadcasting of its presence, and it would end when the requesters had died. It was at best a very minor bow to a wholly just demand - in fact, as Pope Benedict confirmed, the entire "abrogation" of the TLM was unjust, and probably beyond even a pope's power to legislate (directly contradicting the explicit directives of a prior pope). The "abrogation" was certainly unjust and at the most of questionable legality.
hckyplyr9285 suppression not abrogation
hckyplyr9285 Yes it's a very very good point. The issue of the illegality of Pope Paul vi universal suppression of the ordo vitus . When explicity it was ruled immutable at/following the council of Trent
Backed fired on saint Paul 6th. He would probably not be happy if he saw the widespread usage of the TLM today. Although; I’m indifferent to his pontificate.
Very wise comments!
The Traditionalist author James Larson has written on the SSPX and notes that the Pope had the authority to excommunicate Lefebvre. In order to explain this, Larson analogizes to the case of the Armenians in Constantinople who illegally installed a patriarch during Pius IX.
Larson also cites Canon 1326, that states:
"N.1A judge can punish more severely than a law or a precept has stated (the following persons):
1.2: a person who has been given some dignified position or who has abused authority or office in order to commit the offense.
1.3: an accused who although a penalty has been established against a culpable offense, foresaw what was to happen yet nonetheless did not take the precautions which any diligent person would have employed to avoid it.”
See: waragainstbeing.com/parti/article18/
Jonathan Adams the "excommunication was invalid because it had a problem with the date...or lack of being dated.
He had the authority but not the right. Fr. Gerald Murray, in his thesis concerning this matter, showed by Canon law they were neither schismatis nor validly excommunicated. Archbishop Lefebrve was not setting up a parallel church.
All this talk about schism, read Inaestimabile Donum issued by Pope John Paul II in 1980 , written to correct abuses in the liturgy, forbids extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist yet the bishops disobey the pope in this matter every day. W ho is really in schism?
Of course he has authority, he was the Pope. SSPX was never in schism though, so the authority was exercised falsely. Hence the reason Pope Benedict lifted the schism and rightfully said the SSPX are not and have never been in schism. We are Catholic, literally as Catholic as you can be if you look at what Catholics were before 1960.
Jesus Christ is TRULY present in the Holy Eucharist no matter the form or language of the Mass. Sometimes people forget this in the heat of debate.
Some do, but Archbishop Lefebvre's position was far more deep than mere rubrics, to be fair. I recently gave him a fair hearing and I have to say that I was very edified. He was way ahead of his time.
China has Romes permission to put in their our bishops. They are also rewriting the Bible to reflect the CCCP policies.
Looking at the world and the church today I think we can clearly say there is a need for the SSPX
Ultra what? What that guy in the right had said? I could not understand because I'm not a good English speaker. I will appreciate if someone could write it.
ultra vires, it's a latin phrase. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_vires
@@TumblarHouse you guys are fast! Thank you very much!
Utra Vires, Utra Vires, Utra Vires. . . . . . Utra Vires, I think I've got it.
*Ultra Vires. Now you've got it.
@@TumblarHouse :)
Half of what he says I can't even understand. Even the CC computer can't
@Athos Aramis Perhaps the person filming should have used better microphones
I wish they would have accepted this. @15:46 but canon 844 or 1333 make attendance permissible.
Ultra Vires means Beyond the capacity to act.
Ultra Vires means beyond your control.
When the governing body of the Church does something « ultra Vires »....no it cannot be abrogated ...under penalty of anathema....council of Trent.....consequently...Paul the VI ...anathemized....JP II ....anathemized....ect ..... what are thé consequences of these anathemas??.
So, during the week i go to the new Mass because the SSPX do not have the possibility to offer Mass ,only on Sunday .
I feel like i cover both camps ..
.
Our Lord said in the Bible if there is one person keep the faith,that is where his Church is.wake up catholic priests .you can not excomunicate the truth.
Where is that in the Bible?
In response to Sir Charles Colenmbo what ever the spelling...I'll add unbiased opinion response to his. If you read short or in-depth apologetic materials regarding a question of myself and since you will find that he was not kinetically culpable nor was there any valid activism but an actual Act of Disobedience the act of disobedience which Heat incurred does not have the penalty of excommunication so for all those people that don't know what they're talking about and have not done their research do real research don't go based off of people with their bias prejudiced ignorant comments. The Roman authorities were making requirements in order for them to be given regular canonical recognition for which they were originally established in which he fully explains. They promised the Archbishop that his Society of priests would receive a bishop or Bishops the same false promise was also given to the fraternity of st. Peter ... they're still waiting on that Bishop hence why within the traditionalist circles there is eight informed distrust of the diplomats and hierarchy in the Vatican to include the papacy.
Ad apostlorum principis. End of story
Pure bull
Loretta Powell explain a little?
Indeed-specifically the Papal Bull titled Quo Primum!
I can only assume this is what you meant as this video is certainly not bull.