Based on accounts from folks in the historic aircraft community, the airboss was a "nepobaby" that had no business running an airshow. He became the airboss because his father had been an airboss for many years. From my understanding, he was a poor planner that preferred to make things up as the show progressed. His father has a similar style and a copy of a copy is not as sharp as the original. As called out, the guy was a poor communicator. His instructions were long winded and often unclear. Preshow briefings were equally confusing with folks unclear on who does what and when. Finally, the airboss was, to put it kindly, a winking brown hole. The guy was said to have a big head and thought himself as the "smartest guy in the room."
That's all true from what I've read but it's important to note that it takes two to tango. Despite the pilots and participants later saying that throughout all the preflight briefings and practices, there were a litany of red flags that gave them major pause including clearly unsafe procedures, confusing language and communication issues, last minute changes, etc. not one spoke up about any of it, nor did anyone suggest, ask for or insist on any changes or modifications. All pilots should understand how critical CRM is and the fact that nobody said a word - not to the air boss, not to the FAA rep, not to the show management, or even to each other - means the blame doesn't all fall on the air boss. Accidents are always a chain of events and there is never a singular person responsible. This should be a good reminder that everyone is responsible for safety and it is everyone's responsibility to speak up when they see a safety issue. There will always be cowboys and aholes, but if everyone is doing their part properly, they will either be corrected or filtered out before something tragic happens
@@guategringo I think the issue is that while there is certainly overlap, they are two very different and distinct skill sets. ATC is directing orderly, widely spaced traffic in established airspace's with extensive electronic safety aids, purely to ensure separation and to get them to their destination, whereas air bosses are directing extremely high density fast paced traffic through planned complex choreography, intentionally keeping them as CLOSE as possible to each other and to the crowd while still maintaining proper specified and safe separation, all by eye with no screen or electronic aids, managing not only spacing but timing and deconfliction of different show lines, different aircraft performance profiles, etc to make sure they're in proper position and formation for the choreography when they reach the show line. It's like nascar vs F1 drivers. They're both ultimately doing the same sort of think at a high level but they are also very different environments, they each require a different type of training, skill and style, and being great at one does not necessarily mean you'll be good at the other. If that makes sense
I always wanted to fly on the Texas Raiders. My wife had been researching getting me a ticket when she suddenly and unexpectedly died in her sleep at the young age of 29. The day of her funeral, as I was standing over her casket being lowered into the ground, I looked up and saw the TR flying in the distance, out of their usual spot at Red Bird Airport (now known as Dallas Executive). Sounds nerdy, but I always kinda considered it to be a sign from her or something. Anyways, when this crashed happened, that moment at the graveside was all I could think about for days.
I once read that as many as HALF of all aircrew deaths in WWII were accidents. Either on take offs or landings and many mid air collisions and other mishaps. You can't have so many planes in a small airspace and not have accidents.
@@donprice9050 To check for myself i looked at the final report of battle and non-battle deaths for WW2. 60% of officers and 55% of enlisted in the Air Corps are reported as dying in battle. 35% of officers and 23% enlisted in the Air Corps are listed as dying in accidents involving aircraft.
@@prinzalbatross9526 That's still a lot! My mothers partner was in the RCAF late in the war. He crashed taking off on his first mission. He was drunk! That was the end of his war.
This is so sad and such a waste of life for these people who just wanted to entertain the crowd doing something that they all loved, flying and preserving the memories of the many who flew before them. I must admit I shed a tear or two watching this terrible incident unfold, so sad... Take care and stay safe everyone, Joe
A bunch of "Good 'ol boys" at the to let one their own appoint his nitwit son as airboss. They also as a group completely failed to plan correct separation and movement patterns, then brief them thoroughly. I consider that unforgivable.
Sure hope that "air boss" is no longer involved in air shows. I've heard he is known to fly by the seat of his. Absolutely no pun intended. Apparently his father was the same when he was an air boss.
@@duncandmcgrath6290 Weird that you blame the P-63 pilot when there are several videos out already explaining how it would be difficult if not impossible for him to have spotted the B-17. He was the third in a formation of three fighters, his focus would have been on his leading aircraft and hist instruments, not looking all around for other aircraft, that just wouldn't have been his job and would have been the least of his concerns. Wild that you blame him for not further dividing his attention to do the job of the airboss, which was airspace deconfliction.
The biggest failure is to have fast fighters crossing in front/behind slower moving bombers without adequate vertical separations. Have a clear plan, stick to it , safety must be the primary concern.
True enough, but the single-most worst thing that he did was approve the movement when he HAD NOT confirmed that both pilots had a visual on each other & he went right ahead & told them to move to their lines. It was an appalling idea from the outset that he had no consistent deconfliction throughout, as he had room to utilize height as well as he shouldn't have had the bombers on the outside track in the first place resulting in a cross-over. But even with that, they had a rule that no change of line would occur without pilot confirmation, he never received it & still gave the command to move to their next line, a line that had them crossing over the others path with no real height separation. It really is shocking & 100% preventable with common-sense, let alone care. R.I.P to the pilots & crew.
@johnstirling6597 100% agree. Pilot debrief did a fair analysis of it also. Other than the reason that you gave , its inconceivable why he would set up a circuit that has the aircraft crossing the same point in space & then he ignores the slightest of safety backstops that he, himself, put in place. He couldn't have lined up the swiss cheese better if he had tried. Appalling. I believe that they don't require any sort of license to be an air boss, though I may be wrong about that.
One of the most idiotic crashes ever. I just don’t understand how stupid people can be. Why would all these pilots trust some dude yapping directions to avoid death? There’s so much that can go wrong. There should have been way more safeguards in place.
@@streettrialsandstuff So stay away from airshows. And please, don't go outside to drive a car or a bike, because most of the traffic accidents are stupid too.
Only the barest on the "pilot debrief" channel. He also shouldnt have allowed, or commanded, the pilots to move onto their show lines without receiving confirmation to his question that they had a visual or separation on one another, he never received it & still said to move onto their show lines.
ATC requires retirement at age 56, IIRC. The military at age 64. Commercial aviation at age 65. If air boss or any of the involved pilots exceeded these ages, then why would we be surprised. I am so disapointed that we sacrificed two irreplaceable historical artifacts to vanity and pride.
This wasn't an age related accident. This was an overly arrogant, micro-managing, under competent airboss who shortchanhed pilot briefs and demanded that pilots follow his directions unquestioningly as he changed things on the fly. If he was half as good as he THINKS he is, he'd be twice as good as is ACTUALLY is. And his attitude towards people questioning things during briefings was to get angry. Note that I've had disagreements with airbosses at shows where I didn't think he properly understood my safety limits (I'm with a parachute demonstration team), and I've flat out told aircrew *in flight* that unbriefed changes that occurred in flight were a NO GO and we'd scrub if things didn't get fixed right *now* (got it mitigated, and talked to the airboss on the ground, and got him to understand that I don't care *who* it is - if they're flying in the airspace I'm exiting jumpers into, they need to be in the sidebar the jump team has with the jump pilots, so they understand *my* No Fly Zone on jump run... the next went flawlessly.) *If you can't have those kind of discussions with the airboss and other performers you'll be sharing airspace with, you need to scrub, and be clear you are scrubbing for inadequate safety.* And it isn't about egos at that point - it's about maintaining minimal safety. (But, unfortunately, *everyone* in this community is, by definition, a Type A "Can Do" personality. Nor do I exempt myself from that label - it is *very* difficult to be the first one to say, "We shouldn't do this, because it isn't safe to do it this way.") He also (as the audio snips reveal) talks too damned much on the mike. If you ever have to take a breath mid-transmission, you've already spoken twice as long as you should. Nor did he provide any altitude deconfliction, either in the preflight pilot's brief nor when he was "shooting from the hip" trying to direct the aerial ballet on the fly. 500 foot altitude separation would have looked just as cool, and yet would have entirely prevented the mishap. And what the video didn't go over was the airboss (not just the pilots) was task saturated. He had a "warbird ridealong" flight he was trying to mocromanage at the same time as the aerial display was going through its most dangerous manuever. *Absolute NO GO* - the paid ridealong flights need to be launched and recovered when you aren't paying having to direct the aerial performers.
We actually knew all of this within about a week of the crash. I don’t know why NTSB had to take two years to release a report. Their recommendations? Don’t direct airplanes to cross traffic and crash into one another.
So you watch a video where you literally see the moment multiple people die and your big takeaway is: 'Gee the NTSB sure is stupid for taking so long to release a report on a major Incident!" Congratulations on being a Psychopaths, I bet you have a ton of friends
The NTSB and other bodies released all info possible right away, so the public was informed early on, and everyone was scrutinizing airshows automatically afterward. *It takes two years for the **_official_** report because the NTSB has a backlog of 1,200 active investigations, done with only about 450 staff because they weed out the dummies, and because they don't cut corners like other countries' safety boards. It's a miracle that they can get investigations out within two years at all.* If you're going to blame any party for being slow, blame the FAA
I’m a private pilot. I fly aerobatic planes and sometimes use my dad’s Cessna 170 for backwoods fly in events. I watched a midair if two airplanes while they were in final approach in Idaho. Guy behind and above didn’t see the plane in front and below him and they collided right above the runway. Sad deal. I can’t imagine seeing this b17 break apart and slam into the ground. I have flown some air shows in a Pitts but the events that have many airplanes at one time over a small area are concerning. It is done well all the time but has a high chance of something bad happening
I remember this. Yes it was just a couple years ago but the memories faded a bit. Don't get old it sucks. When I heard about it my first thought was not TR. Please don't let it be them. That plane is my profile pic for my MS account. One of my favorite pieces of aviation history. I cried that day. And watching the video makes me choke up even now. 😢
The problem is more systemic to the historical/reenactor community than just this one air boss. There's a strong and ingrained almost institutional-level of self-assuredness and confidence bordering on arrogance. These are groups of guys who are for the most part quite old and rooted in their ways. They see themselves as special, they're custodians of history and they're doing the Lord's work and those who call them out are attacking history. With few exceptions if you went to a group of these guys you could hear them speaking with an air of "my word is final because I am knowledgeable". These are the kinds of guys that will always, if the conversation involves airplane history, say at some point "well actually..." and go on a lecture about whatever they feel they are subject matter experts on and will dismiss other views other than their own. Oftentimes, they are indeed very knowledgeable on the history of air power and aircraft, sometimes impressively so. But, they extend that confidence of knowledge to all relevant matters even if they are stunningly ill-informed, and often that extends to actually safely operating their aircraft. This wouldn't be an issue within other groups or activities but where it becomes an issue is that groups like these commemorative air forces have had and continue to have little to no oversight that calls them out on their bulls**t and so they continue along, getting worse and worse as their established rank and file often drive away new blood who are in fact properly qualified on how to safely operate aircraft and so you get into a repeating cycle of nepotism within their ranks as bad habits become practically policy. I have spoken to several aviation industry professionals who I game with, and they universally stated that this sort of disaster was inevitable, and it is surprising that it has not happened before, based on their interactions with this group of pilots and others like them.
Well done! I'm not connected, but this one hit harder than most. Everyone should have known the program ahead of time. Idea: Walk it out in a big parking lot until it's perfect. Fighters should be flying relative to the bomber (kinda like real life), not to separate directions. Also meaning the lead fighter always has the bomber in sight and is always aware of those following. Also, a little vertical separation goes a long way.
This tragedy could have been avoided if the organisations would have get rid of those stupid childish mog battles and silly fake pyro technics "bombing" runs"
Nepotism was declared as a cause of the accident? Where in the report? Who was related to whom and which was the one who didn’t belong in which aircraft?
No pilots; the airboss was the son of a respected airboss/aviator. NTSB didn't mention it as it wasn't relevant to the cause. He apparently wasn't inexperienced (20 yrs according to his interview, item 14 in the docket), but the consensus is that this airboss shouldn't have been calling moves on the fly like it was a square dance. Not sure if he got complacent with his style for 20 years. Similar family situation to the _Rust_ shooting fatality the year before, where the armorer was the daughter of a well-respected armorer and she evidently wasn't so by-the-book with firearms and ammo on-set. So looks suspiciously like nepotism, although not a direct cause, might have got the airboss to the status where he seemed qualified to run this show without a proper pre-flight briefing like you're supposed to.
@@Yankee7000The nepotism was the air boss. The son of a very senior guy in the CAF who had been a long time air boss. The son was grossly unqualified to be doing what he was doing. I’m not even sure if he was a pilot? He certainly had no ATC training or skills. The pilots/plane owners put up with it because it was his way or the Highway. There is video of the morning pilot briefing that is horrifying in just how incompetent and unprofessional it was. As said here, there was no standard of communication. No clear morning briefing. No briefing discussions of separation and conflict avoidance. I hate to put it this way, but the “air boss” was running things like a redneck rodeo.
Totally unnecessary loss of lives and vintage airplanes. Those airplanes should have been on static display somewhere for people to see and learn about. Not flying around in circles pretending 'bombing runs' and putting so many people in danger, including those on the ground. IMHO...
At this point, I would blame whoever owns the most expensive plane that got damaged. The pilots of those planes were flying very expensive aircraft and should have done their homework. The truth is hard
@@barbaramonaco105 DEI, no,. Nepo-hire, most definitely. He was an Air Boss solely because his dad was an Air Boss. Unfortunately, skill, knowledge and experience are not inherited via DNA.
Based on accounts from folks in the historic aircraft community, the airboss was a "nepobaby" that had no business running an airshow. He became the airboss because his father had been an airboss for many years. From my understanding, he was a poor planner that preferred to make things up as the show progressed. His father has a similar style and a copy of a copy is not as sharp as the original. As called out, the guy was a poor communicator. His instructions were long winded and often unclear. Preshow briefings were equally confusing with folks unclear on who does what and when. Finally, the airboss was, to put it kindly, a winking brown hole. The guy was said to have a big head and thought himself as the "smartest guy in the room."
That's all true from what I've read but it's important to note that it takes two to tango. Despite the pilots and participants later saying that throughout all the preflight briefings and practices, there were a litany of red flags that gave them major pause including clearly unsafe procedures, confusing language and communication issues, last minute changes, etc. not one spoke up about any of it, nor did anyone suggest, ask for or insist on any changes or modifications. All pilots should understand how critical CRM is and the fact that nobody said a word - not to the air boss, not to the FAA rep, not to the show management, or even to each other - means the blame doesn't all fall on the air boss.
Accidents are always a chain of events and there is never a singular person responsible. This should be a good reminder that everyone is responsible for safety and it is everyone's responsibility to speak up when they see a safety issue. There will always be cowboys and aholes, but if everyone is doing their part properly, they will either be corrected or filtered out before something tragic happens
@@GlutenEruption My thoughts exactly. If there is a problem involving operations and safety you cannot just let it slide.
@@CaffeineGeek I understand that the qualifications for being an air boss are pretty thin. Maybe air bosses should have to be air traffic controllers?
@@guategringo I think the issue is that while there is certainly overlap, they are two very different and distinct skill sets. ATC is directing orderly, widely spaced traffic in established airspace's with extensive electronic safety aids, purely to ensure separation and to get them to their destination, whereas air bosses are directing extremely high density fast paced traffic through planned complex choreography, intentionally keeping them as CLOSE as possible to each other and to the crowd while still maintaining proper specified and safe separation, all by eye with no screen or electronic aids, managing not only spacing but timing and deconfliction of different show lines, different aircraft performance profiles, etc to make sure they're in proper position and formation for the choreography when they reach the show line. It's like nascar vs F1 drivers. They're both ultimately doing the same sort of think at a high level but they are also very different environments, they each require a different type of training, skill and style, and being great at one does not necessarily mean you'll be good at the other. If that makes sense
this is a cop channel--wtf are you people talking about??
I really appreciate that this young creator read the names of the lost airmen at the end of the video.
Why?
I always wanted to fly on the Texas Raiders. My wife had been researching getting me a ticket when she suddenly and unexpectedly died in her sleep at the young age of 29.
The day of her funeral, as I was standing over her casket being lowered into the ground, I looked up and saw the TR flying in the distance, out of their usual spot at Red Bird Airport (now known as Dallas Executive).
Sounds nerdy, but I always kinda considered it to be a sign from her or something.
Anyways, when this crashed happened, that moment at the graveside was all I could think about for days.
My condolences.
It was no accident. Your wife showed her love for you.
Nice to see you back
I once read that as many as HALF of all aircrew deaths in WWII were accidents. Either on take offs or landings and many mid air collisions and other mishaps. You can't have so many planes in a small airspace and not have accidents.
I'd love to see a source for that.
@@prinzalbatross9526 . Way back in the 90's. No idea where they got the info.
@@donprice9050 To check for myself i looked at the final report of battle and non-battle deaths for WW2. 60% of officers and 55% of enlisted in the Air Corps are reported as dying in battle. 35% of officers and 23% enlisted in the Air Corps are listed as dying in accidents involving aircraft.
@@prinzalbatross9526 That's still a lot! My mothers partner was in the RCAF late in the war. He crashed taking off on his first mission. He was drunk! That was the end of his war.
This is so sad and such a waste of life for these people who just wanted to entertain the crowd doing something that they all loved, flying and preserving the memories of the many who flew before them. I must admit I shed a tear or two watching this terrible incident unfold, so sad...
Take care and stay safe everyone,
Joe
Thank you for detailing this horrible event in an easy to understand way. I also appreciate your honoring of the pilots at the end.
I would recognize that voice anywhere!
Great investigation and great to have you back!
(Marry Christmas and soon Happy New Year!)
A bunch of "Good 'ol boys" at the to let one their own appoint his nitwit son as airboss. They also as a group completely failed to plan correct separation and movement patterns, then brief them thoroughly. I consider that unforgivable.
Sure hope that "air boss" is no longer involved in air shows. I've heard he is known to fly by the seat of his. Absolutely no pun intended. Apparently his father was the same when he was an air boss.
Both should be nowhere near airshows, both incompetent.
The Air Boss should've been brought up on charges of negligent homicide x 6. Whoever approved him as Air Boss should be charged as an accessory.
Not gonna happen chum . The airboss was sloppy and the P63 pilot was worse . See and be seen is priority in a circuit .
P63 killed all of them
@@duncandmcgrath6290As directed by the Airboss, fly up to the B-17? With no difference in height, total incompetence by both.
@@duncandmcgrath6290 Weird that you blame the P-63 pilot when there are several videos out already explaining how it would be difficult if not impossible for him to have spotted the B-17. He was the third in a formation of three fighters, his focus would have been on his leading aircraft and hist instruments, not looking all around for other aircraft, that just wouldn't have been his job and would have been the least of his concerns. Wild that you blame him for not further dividing his attention to do the job of the airboss, which was airspace deconfliction.
The biggest failure is to have fast fighters crossing in front/behind slower moving bombers without adequate vertical separations. Have a clear plan, stick to it , safety must be the primary concern.
True enough, but the single-most worst thing that he did was approve the movement when he HAD NOT confirmed that both pilots had a visual on each other & he went right ahead & told them to move to their lines. It was an appalling idea from the outset that he had no consistent deconfliction throughout, as he had room to utilize height as well as he shouldn't have had the bombers on the outside track in the first place resulting in a cross-over. But even with that, they had a rule that no change of line would occur without pilot confirmation, he never received it & still gave the command to move to their next line, a line that had them crossing over the others path with no real height separation. It really is shocking & 100% preventable with common-sense, let alone care. R.I.P to the pilots & crew.
@@evryhndlestakn Put that down to Air Boss hubris, acting way outside his competence and capacity.
@johnstirling6597 100% agree. Pilot debrief did a fair analysis of it also. Other than the reason that you gave , its inconceivable why he would set up a circuit that has the aircraft crossing the same point in space & then he ignores the slightest of safety backstops that he, himself, put in place.
He couldn't have lined up the swiss cheese better if he had tried. Appalling. I believe that they don't require any sort of license to be an air boss, though I may be wrong about that.
Godspeed gentlemen, may you have smooth skies for your final flight home.
Can yoou do a video like this on the Ramstien Flugtagg 88 Airshow disaster please?
Ramstein
@Randomly_Browsing yes..a typo on my part.oops
Yep, Ramstein 88 is a classic.
And I was there. It was every year the highlight of german airshows. Until 88...
@MisterIvyMike yes....i heard Flugtagg was always a great show until 88.
A well presented video with excellent static graphics. Very good. Thanks.
One of the most idiotic crashes ever. I just don’t understand how stupid people can be. Why would all these pilots trust some dude yapping directions to avoid death? There’s so much that can go wrong. There should have been way more safeguards in place.
Airshow accidents are always stupid. They never learn.
@@streettrialsandstuff
So stay away from airshows.
And please, don't go outside to drive a car or a bike, because most of the traffic accidents are stupid too.
@@MisterIvyMikeyour comment is beyond stupid. 🙄
Is there any statement from, or interview with the Airboss available anywhere?
Only the barest on the "pilot debrief" channel.
He also shouldnt have allowed, or commanded, the pilots to move onto their show lines without receiving confirmation to his question that they had a visual or separation on one another, he never received it & still said to move onto their show lines.
This was gut wrenching when I saw that clip of the collision on the news. 💔😭🙏🇺🇸
When one human is the only barrier against disaster, then that disaster is only a matter of time.
As a Texas boy, this crash hurts my soul
how can there be no standard phraseology for something as carefully orchestrated as an air-show??
The pain in my heart still hasn't gone away....
Took a ride on a c-47 in 2023, this did cross my mind when we first took off.
I still remember the shock and disbelief when it happened
Way to much going on, air boss at fault. RIP victims.
ATC requires retirement at age 56, IIRC. The military at age 64. Commercial aviation at age 65. If air boss or any of the involved pilots exceeded these ages, then why would we be surprised. I am so disapointed that we sacrificed two irreplaceable historical artifacts to vanity and pride.
we had like a bajillion of them and they were sacrificed to make toaster, get a grip
@@a-nus How many do we have today?
iirc?
This wasn't an age related accident. This was an overly arrogant, micro-managing, under competent airboss who shortchanhed pilot briefs and demanded that pilots follow his directions unquestioningly as he changed things on the fly. If he was half as good as he THINKS he is, he'd be twice as good as is ACTUALLY is.
And his attitude towards people questioning things during briefings was to get angry.
Note that I've had disagreements with airbosses at shows where I didn't think he properly understood my safety limits (I'm with a parachute demonstration team), and I've flat out told aircrew *in flight* that unbriefed changes that occurred in flight were a NO GO and we'd scrub if things didn't get fixed right *now* (got it mitigated, and talked to the airboss on the ground, and got him to understand that I don't care *who* it is - if they're flying in the airspace I'm exiting jumpers into, they need to be in the sidebar the jump team has with the jump pilots, so they understand *my* No Fly Zone on jump run... the next went flawlessly.) *If you can't have those kind of discussions with the airboss and other performers you'll be sharing airspace with, you need to scrub, and be clear you are scrubbing for inadequate safety.* And it isn't about egos at that point - it's about maintaining minimal safety. (But, unfortunately, *everyone* in this community is, by definition, a Type A "Can Do" personality. Nor do I exempt myself from that label - it is *very* difficult to be the first one to say, "We shouldn't do this, because it isn't safe to do it this way.")
He also (as the audio snips reveal) talks too damned much on the mike. If you ever have to take a breath mid-transmission, you've already spoken twice as long as you should.
Nor did he provide any altitude deconfliction, either in the preflight pilot's brief nor when he was "shooting from the hip" trying to direct the aerial ballet on the fly. 500 foot altitude separation would have looked just as cool, and yet would have entirely prevented the mishap.
And what the video didn't go over was the airboss (not just the pilots) was task saturated. He had a "warbird ridealong" flight he was trying to mocromanage at the same time as the aerial display was going through its most dangerous manuever. *Absolute NO GO* - the paid ridealong flights need to be launched and recovered when you aren't paying having to direct the aerial performers.
@@Capecodham If I Recall Correctly
Pretty sure you can see the P63 pilot spinning through the air before hitting the tarmac. RIP. So avoidable.
I rode with the guy who was flying the cobra about a year before 😕
We actually knew all of this within about a week of the crash. I don’t know why NTSB had to take two years to release a report. Their recommendations? Don’t direct airplanes to cross traffic and crash into one another.
So you watch a video where you literally see the moment multiple people die and your big takeaway is: 'Gee the NTSB sure is stupid for taking so long to release a report on a major Incident!" Congratulations on being a Psychopaths, I bet you have a ton of friends
You thought you knew. Now they really know.
Exactly.
The NTSB and other bodies released all info possible right away, so the public was informed early on, and everyone was scrutinizing airshows automatically afterward. *It takes two years for the **_official_** report because the NTSB has a backlog of 1,200 active investigations, done with only about 450 staff because they weed out the dummies, and because they don't cut corners like other countries' safety boards. It's a miracle that they can get investigations out within two years at all.* If you're going to blame any party for being slow, blame the FAA
@ well - after 2 years NTSB repeated verbatim exactly what we knew 2 years ago. Zero new information
Air boss was more like the air flop.
I’m a private pilot. I fly aerobatic planes and sometimes use my dad’s Cessna 170 for backwoods fly in events. I watched a midair if two airplanes while they were in final approach in Idaho. Guy behind and above didn’t see the plane in front and below him and they collided right above the runway. Sad deal. I can’t imagine seeing this b17 break apart and slam into the ground. I have flown some air shows in a Pitts but the events that have many airplanes at one time over a small area are concerning. It is done well all the time but has a high chance of something bad happening
No info on the Airboss? did he got charged or something?
This was very well done but hard to watch. It reminds me so much of the Hughes Air West crash several years ago.
I remember this. Yes it was just a couple years ago but the memories faded a bit. Don't get old it sucks.
When I heard about it my first thought was not TR. Please don't let it be them. That plane is my profile pic for my MS account. One of my favorite pieces of aviation history. I cried that day. And watching the video makes me choke up even now. 😢
Am I wrong in thinking there is still an open homicide investigation on this one?
The Show must go on.
Once again a reminder of the dangers of aviation. We are all vulnerable.
Oh hi welcome back!
The problem is more systemic to the historical/reenactor community than just this one air boss. There's a strong and ingrained almost institutional-level of self-assuredness and confidence bordering on arrogance. These are groups of guys who are for the most part quite old and rooted in their ways. They see themselves as special, they're custodians of history and they're doing the Lord's work and those who call them out are attacking history. With few exceptions if you went to a group of these guys you could hear them speaking with an air of "my word is final because I am knowledgeable". These are the kinds of guys that will always, if the conversation involves airplane history, say at some point "well actually..." and go on a lecture about whatever they feel they are subject matter experts on and will dismiss other views other than their own. Oftentimes, they are indeed very knowledgeable on the history of air power and aircraft, sometimes impressively so. But, they extend that confidence of knowledge to all relevant matters even if they are stunningly ill-informed, and often that extends to actually safely operating their aircraft.
This wouldn't be an issue within other groups or activities but where it becomes an issue is that groups like these commemorative air forces have had and continue to have little to no oversight that calls them out on their bulls**t and so they continue along, getting worse and worse as their established rank and file often drive away new blood who are in fact properly qualified on how to safely operate aircraft and so you get into a repeating cycle of nepotism within their ranks as bad habits become practically policy.
I have spoken to several aviation industry professionals who I game with, and they universally stated that this sort of disaster was inevitable, and it is surprising that it has not happened before, based on their interactions with this group of pilots and others like them.
Juan Brown explained what happened in this crash the day it occurred.
No he did a preliminary speculation
@@duncandmcgrath6290 Which turned out to be near 100% right.
Air boss. Epic fail.
Took a minute before I realized it was a real plane I was looking at
Was a dangerous routine for no reason
We finally know?
Buddy… idk where you’ve been, but we have known exactly what went down since about a month or so after it happened
This is heart breaking. 😢😢
Sounds like the AIRBOSS IS 10000% RESPONSIBLE and was way tooooo much over his head, had no business in that position...
Dang
That sucks
The airboss shouldn't be a job. There needs to be proper ATC for anything airplane related, hope airboss was stripped of duties
i was always taught you went with your cuffs. what was he doing??
Those instructions didn’t make any sense
Airboss need to see prison time.
Maan you gotta work extra in crismass , so much going on with crashes and errors on aviation right now
Well done! I'm not connected, but this one hit harder than most.
Everyone should have known the program ahead of time. Idea: Walk it out in a big parking lot until it's perfect. Fighters should be flying relative to the bomber (kinda like real life), not to separate directions. Also meaning the lead fighter always has the bomber in sight and is always aware of those following. Also, a little vertical separation goes a long way.
This tragedy could have been avoided if the organisations would have get rid of those stupid childish mog battles and silly fake pyro technics "bombing" runs"
Better yet have a competent and professional air boss. Many people need to be criminally charged.
P63 pilot caused 5 more deaths other than his own .
Do you have to be told to play nice and don’t hit each other in the pattern?
Great work way better than the NTSB's report.
A new video!! 😃😃
People died. This isn't popcorn entertainment. Have some respect you inappropriate ghoul. 🙄
Fighting in a war is deadly business, pretending your fighting in a war for our enjoyment is insane, that’s way we have museums keep them there.
Loss of two perfectly good airplanes due to nepotism.
Loss of good people too. The Planes, although historically important, should never be the primary concern when people die. Ass of a comment IMO
@@GrannySingaporePVP You do you Booboo. I paraphrased a number of people in the community.
Nepotism was declared as a cause of the accident? Where in the report? Who was related to whom and which was the one who didn’t belong in which aircraft?
No pilots; the airboss was the son of a respected airboss/aviator. NTSB didn't mention it as it wasn't relevant to the cause. He apparently wasn't inexperienced (20 yrs according to his interview, item 14 in the docket), but the consensus is that this airboss shouldn't have been calling moves on the fly like it was a square dance. Not sure if he got complacent with his style for 20 years. Similar family situation to the _Rust_ shooting fatality the year before, where the armorer was the daughter of a well-respected armorer and she evidently wasn't so by-the-book with firearms and ammo on-set. So looks suspiciously like nepotism, although not a direct cause, might have got the airboss to the status where he seemed qualified to run this show without a proper pre-flight briefing like you're supposed to.
@@Yankee7000The nepotism was the air boss. The son of a very senior guy in the CAF who had been a long time air boss. The son was grossly unqualified to be doing what he was doing. I’m not even sure if he was a pilot? He certainly had no ATC training or skills. The pilots/plane owners put up with it because it was his way or the Highway. There is video of the morning pilot briefing that is horrifying in just how incompetent and unprofessional it was. As said here, there was no standard of communication. No clear morning briefing. No briefing discussions of separation and conflict avoidance. I hate to put it this way, but the “air boss” was running things like a redneck rodeo.
Totally unnecessary loss of lives and vintage airplanes. Those airplanes should have been on static display somewhere for people to see and learn about. Not flying around in circles pretending 'bombing runs' and putting so many people in danger, including those on the ground. IMHO...
I just clicked on the video to see the crash.
NEXT!
First
Oh grow up simpleton 🙄
You pray? FFS
Dammit - second!
Oh grow up simpleton! 🙄🙄🙄
At this point, I would blame whoever owns the most expensive plane that got damaged.
The pilots of those planes were flying very expensive aircraft and should have done their homework.
The truth is hard
You sound like those people, who know the price of everything, but the value of nothing!
third lol
Antiquated airplanes ought not be allowed over land occupied by people.
We all knew the Air Boss was a DEI hire and had absolutely no experience or skill whatsoever for this job.
You don't know that. 😁
@@barbaramonaco105 DEI, no,. Nepo-hire, most definitely. He was an Air Boss solely because his dad was an Air Boss. Unfortunately, skill, knowledge and experience are not inherited via DNA.
Sounds like an old white guy so not DEI 😂😂
These shows are completely unnecessary and should be illegal these type of things seem to happen a number of times every year
We don't have Model T's on the interstate and we shouldn't have old junk flying overhead.
Let's be honest. The Airboss is a knob.