Battle of the 10/22s at Long Range - Budget, KIDD, Shilen, Which Will Win? Subscriber request video.
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Subscriber request video. Today I put all 3 of my Precision 10/22s up against each other at Long Range. I shoot RWS Special Match out of each of the rifles at 100 & 200 yards.
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Relative accuracy does not change with distance. The most accurate rifle at a given distance will be the most accurate at all distances if the same loads are used.
Velocity is essentially the same in bolt and semi autos, so any difference in accuracy would be due to something like "lock-up" consistency etc.
The larger groups at 200 are not due to the shooter or the rifle so much as the ammo. We've seen you shoot and know that you are a consistently accurate shooter and that the rifles are also very accurate. However, once the range becomes "X" while shooting "Y" ammo accuracy can go from great to not very good. Each ammo chosen will perform well only to a certain range before it falls out of that highest accuracy realm for that particular ammo. I have some ammo choices that shoot incredible at 50 yards that are not at all accurate at 100+ yards and also some choices that shoot very well at 100 but are not the absolute best at 50 yards. This is why when we look at rimfire ammo and say we have an average group of 1/2'' at 50 yards we cannot truly say that particular ammo in that particular rifle will shoot double the group size at double the distance. That combo of rifle and ammo may or may not be capable of 1'' groups at 100 yards or 2'' groups at 200 yards. At those longer ranges with the loss of velocity the shape & length of the bullet combined with the initial velocity determine more or less drop, more or less stability at that given speed and ultimately more or less accuracy and the only way to tell is to test each ammo chosen in each rifle just like you did here.
@@frankbrowning328 Exactly, you never know what your gonna get till you try it. I really enjoy shooting at longer ranges, but often times walk away disappointed. But, when rifle, ammo and shooter come together and things go exactly right these rifles are capable of incredible accuracy. I shoot off camera quite abit looking for a combination that is worthy of showing you guys. Unfortunately most .22 no matter the manufacturer is not very consistent lot to lot.
Global Ordnance has RWS target for $6 a box at the moment. Nothing like the beer budget rifle out there killing it!
Ammo is they key. It's crazy the difference between 50 and 100 yds. I shot Eley match at 325 yds 1077 and 1079. The 1077 had less vertical and less horizontal. Both shot good to 200 yds . Kidd seems to the better one on my end have a charger with a 10 inch barrel. Shot beside a vudoo tied him both times. Also 2 of my friends switched to kidd barrels. There probably a bad apple in every one once in awhile. Thanks for the video.
I really wish .22lr ammunition was more consistent. A box of any ammunition lot to lot can very so much it’s hard to get anything you can depend on. That’s the biggest problem we have as rimfire shooters. If someone could solve this problem the sport would be even funner then it already is.
I utilize the same Bipod EXT on all my rifles and, with my rifles, have found that it negates the necessity of preloading the bipod. Great video and nice shooting for semiautomatic rifles.
Hey, I have a few questions for you about the Bipod EXT. Email me: rimfiress457@gmail.com
Excellent man!! Wish I could get RWS to run that well in my 10/22’s!!! Looking forward to the next video. 😊
Thank you. It runs in all mine.
Looking forward to seeing your summit action. I have a summit with a Feddersen barrel in krg bravo chassis. Haven’t taken it out to any long range yet.
I’m sending it back. That action don’t shoot. So weird.
Another outstanding video. Great work. One day, just for the hell of it, lets try some "cheap" ammo in a really good gun. Maybe some CCI MiniMags or something from Federal. It would be interesting to see how $11 per hundred does against $20 for fifty. I really enjoy your work and thank you for your efforts!
Good idea.
Look forward to the next test!! Good stuff man
Wait till you see the 28” .920 barrel I just got from Green Mountain. Holy Crap does it shoot. Minimal fliers. It’s incredible. Video to come soon. Just got it today.
@@RimfireSS awesome can’t wait!!!
I really dig your KIDD setup!
Thanks Kody.
Two of my 10/22s have Green Mountain barrels. One is a blue 20", new one is a 24" stainless. Both are in Titan stocks with aluminum track plates. I shoot them from a modified Caldwell Rock BR rest. Both love Eley BRSAP. The 24" really likes a couple of lots of SK Rifle Match. A dime completely covers a 5 shot group at 100 yds. Kidd single stage trigger kits in both. The Eley is listed at 1048 fps. I bought a case as my CZ457 likes it also. I hate the greasy SK lube. I posted some groups on Rimfire Central forum under 10/22 barrels - Joe D
I just got my Green Mountain 28” and my lord does it shoot!
@@RimfireSS I don't bore scope a barrel unless it does not group well. OTOH I would scope a Bergara B14-R before I bought another one. My barrel was full of pits. Best it ever shot was around 1 1/2" at 100 yds. I would suggest trying Eley SABRP, but Killough is out. A friend of mine is the importer of RWS and Anschutz. R50 or R100 might group well, but not going to pay the price.
@@RimfireSS can't wait to see that video. Are you on the Rimfire Central Forum?
Kool testing 👍🏻✌🏻💯
It was fun.
GR8 VIDEO THNX
Great and informative video. Looking forward to seeing the next one.
Thanks Glenn
Another great video. Thank you.
Overall the 100 yard targets were sub MOA which is not bad at all. One thing stands out however there really is no 10/22 in the lot. There is a mile off difference between everything you shot and anything that comes out of the Ruger factory. Rhenish you move to the pull action the only questionable piece is the magazine. It will be interesting to see how that compares
Very true. I wouldn’t want a standard 10/22, I’ve never had one that shot good from the factory. Not sure what’s gonna happen with the Volquartsen Summit build. Lots of problems with the headspace. Every barrel I’ve tried shoots like crap, and there known good shooting barrels. Idk Volquartsen is working on a fix supposedly.
I find that 200 is about the farthest I can keep relatively decent accuracy. I have a 10/22 I was thinking of building out but not sure if I should. You have some very nice equipment there. Cheers 🍻
Yeah, for trying to hold MOA 200 is about it with .22 10/22s are fun and very challenging at 200, if you have any trouble with your form you’ll find it there.
Great video 👍
Thanks Andy.
It just goes to show, you can't put lipstick on a pig and expect it to be an Anschutz 🤣
I compete weekly against several Annie's and smoke em using cci standard. They use norma match, wolf.
Same video Kenny from "Eagle Eye did". If it's the same "Summit" rifle it shot poorly for the price point.
I’ve got a Summit video coming. Volquartsen is taking mine back. I’ll never shoot it. It’s horribly inaccurate.
Wish you would test groups at 200 with the faxon barrel just to see the difference between a sporter and bentz chamber I recently went to their facility and bought a barrel direct
Ahhhh I probably wouldn’t hit the target with that barrel at 200. Really didn’t shoot better then a factory 10/22 barrel. There working on it. Updated barrels are being made with bentz chambers. They will be sending me all there updated parts when there done to test.
@RimfireSS well I'd like to see it at 50 75 maybe 100 just to compare to shilen
@@Charlie-xw7od the pencil tapered Faxon I have won’t hold a candle to a Shilen. Sporter chambers are made for short range, 50 yards or less to run without jamming. It’s much like a factory barrel accuracy. I’m not sure how the Faxon bull barrels shoot. I was going for a lightweight build for short range shooting. Didn’t you just buy one? Go shoot it man!
@RimfireSS yes I got the standard taper not a pencil it's pretty accurate so far I know that sporter chambers are for reliability I just thought It would be cool to see the sporter chambered bull or regular taper like mine compared to a bentz bull to see if there really is a measurable difference in group size at 100 yards and in I love mine so far !
@RimfireSS faxon did tell me they have a match line of barrels in the works while.i was there gonna have to get a faxon receiver and one of those when they drop
I don’t have high hopes for the Summit. I put mine in a junk box. My kidd barrel shot terribly in the summit. Put it in a regular 10/22 action an it shoots lights out
That’s pretty much what I’ve found, I’ve making a video about it as we speak. Volquartsen is letting me return it.
@@RimfireSS I picked mine up used so I’d say I couldn’t do the same lol. I tried a Kidd and a Shaw barrel on it an neither performed well.
@@Kyrimfireandhobbies Green Mountain has there 24” and 28” barrels in stock right now. I got my 28” today and it shot terribly in the Summit. 5 shot group average of .74” at 50. Put it in a Brownells br22 action and it shot a 5 group average of .29 Do yourself a favor and buy one before there gone. I’ve been waiting over a year for them to come back in.
@RimfireSS maybe try and find out the variable that causes the summit to shoot poor over others?...
@@RimfireSS I already have one. I shot a match with my Green Mountain barrel last Sunday an scored 234 out of a possible 250 with a 10/22. That’s satisfying to me for sure.
Nice shooting mate just out of curiosity what sort of SDS are are you seeing. The batch I had in a bolt gun was dead on 7
Around 9
I wanted to make a suggestion on the 10/22. Like you I love the lilja barrels and I know lilja offers a prefit for the 10/22. I’ve only seen one other review say that the lilja 10/22 barrel will shoot more accurate than the kidd, It would be nice to see that battle. As far as I know no one has reviewed the lilja 10/22, I just happened to see a video were a shooter bragged on his lilja being more accurate. Like always great video Don.
Yeah those barrels are like 5-600 bucks. If they’ll send one I’ll review it. I’ll see what I can do.
@rimfiress KIDD barrel is quite possibly the best return on money spent on barrel . I have 3 Lilja barrel in other rifle . And Kidd in all Kidd 10/22
The law of diminishing return apply very hard .
Barrel is only one component in the accuracy of a system .
10/22 being a semi auto sacrifice some for the semi auto function .
Getting a Lilja on 10/22 might improve your group by a fraction of inch or might not 😄
I have so much luck with KIDD
That all my high end build always uses Non threaded , Non Fluted plain KIDD bull barrel .
Where did you buy your green mountain barrel from? I cannot find them anywhere.
On there website…. Lol
www.gmriflebarrel.com/Home
@RimfireSS I was confused. I was under the impression they shut down for a while.
Yea a lot of their barrels are out of stock. Idk why.
@@bad_vaporizer lol, yeah. Get on a notification and they’ll let you know when more come in. Could take awhile. Worth the wait. But KIDD barrels are great too. Just cost alittle more.
@@RimfireSS accuracy wise seems like your green mountain barrel groups were a little tighter than your kidd barrel.
BTW you would have a tough time hitting our ten 200 yd 4"x5" targets with that ammo. Both of my GM guns will easily group 1moa at 200 yds.
what magazines are you using in your GM rifles? Anything special?
@@RimfireSS I use the 15 round Ruger mag. The 10 round mags will on occasion throw a last round flyer. OTOH I have two 10 round mags that don't throw a 10th round flyer. I suspect their springs my be a little weaker.
@@joed3264 I’m surprised any of those mags don’t throw fliers. I’m getting 1.25” 4 shot groups at 200 and a flier makes it 3.5” and the velocity was the same so it’s not the ammo. Almost every time. Cycled some rounds through the rifle without firing to see what was happening to the bullet and 1 to 2 of them is getting the tip chipped when entering the chamber. That has to be the flier. Flustered, they all do it. Every mag I have.
@@RimfireSS My 24" rifle has a brand new receiver. I noticed that Ruger must have tightened up the magazine hole dimensions as all of my mags fit very tightly. The 20" rifle is very loose. That rifle throws most of the last round flyers. I don't get any flyers with their 15 round mags. I may try tightening up the hole size with two 12-24 setscrews. I wonder if the Faxon receivers have the same issues.
@@joed3264 Faxon is a work in progress. There receiver actually had the loosest barrel fitment I’ve ever seen, hotdog down a hallway comes to mind. So loose The barrel droop needed a vblock with the set screw to push up the barrel. Now I didn’t mention it because they were out of receivers, and I talked them into going to a thermal fit on there new ones. Still couldn’t talk them into a hole in the back of the receiver for cleaning but I digress. I also was able to get them to agree to make a bentz chambered longer barrel for better accuracy. So they listened and I’m sure in the future there gonna have some very high quality parts. Sometimes it takes a outsider that has some experience in what there making to point out shortcomings of there product to get them to listen. But they did and there product will be better for it.
I'm building a second Super grade for bench and I'm having a hard time finding the right chassis.
It's got to be under 500 bucks though.
It's in Enoch Industries but I want a longer fore end.
Almost going to buy the krg bravo but I'm afraid it will flex like that Hunter X does.
Anybody want to give me some advice on that?
@@22guru Kidd makes a PRS chassis for there rifles. I think its close to $500, I did a review, look at my library to find it. It’s excellent
@@RimfireSS good looking out brother! I saw that they're backordered until December.
It's a beautiful chassis for sure!
Enoch Industries came out with another one too but that's on back order also. I appreciate everything that you're doing and thank you for the reply.
@@22guru use code 22rsskidd if you buy one from Kidd, saves you 10 percent and gives me a kick back to help support the channel.
@@RimfireSS Oh good deal thanks I'll remember that.
@@22guru they should have them again soon. I think you can call them and reserve one.
Ain’t nothing wrong with a GM barrel. I’ve had both GM and Kidd. The GM would out shoot my Kidd ULW. Granted a big weight difference.
I just bought a 28” Green Mountain barrel and holy shit does it shoot! Best shooting 10/22 barrel I’ve ever had.
My G.M. will outshoot my KIDD as well! Same length and ammo.
Have you been shooting the 28 inch much? Looking forward to seeing a video of that.
@@asmattcrowflies154 yeah I’ve been working on a video for a couple weeks. Very little velocity differences, I’d say maybe 10 fps over a 16”. Which really surprised me. Does shoot tighter groups at 200 over all my other barrels but still has those pesky fliers but there not as large. The best thing about it is the weight and the balance it gives without having to add weight to the chassis. I have a 24” too. I’m trying to combine the reviews to 1 video. Waiting for another day where the wind is calm.
I a factory 10/22 could do that?
Yeah, 👌 I’d love to see it.
900+ dollars is not a budget 22 rifle....a bone stock 10/22 is.
In the world of precision 22s $900 is a bargain and is considered cheap when building a 10/22 to shoot tacks. So, yeah it is a budget precision 10/22. And the word “budget” is different to everyone.
Global Ordnance has RWS target for $6 a box at the moment. Nothing like the beer budget rifle out there killing it!
Haven’t tried that yet. I’ll check it out, thanks.
Eley Target and Force have been very good for my 10/22 at $6.50 a box they are a deal.
I bought a GM 416 stainless 25 inch blank and a Bentz reamer to make a 4.5 and 20 inch upper for an AR-22 conversion kit.
Pretty excited, hoping it's a more solid base than the 10/22 for an accurate gun.
Do you think I would gain anything by lapping it?
I just bought one of the 28” stainless .920 barrels and my Lord it’s the most accurate barrel I’ve ever owned. Video to come.
@@RimfireSS Do you think it would be worth lapping it?
@@SiliconeSword I was thinking about it but honestly my other Green Mountain barrels don’t build up lead and most the imperfections are microscopic so other then for looks I don’t think it would benefit. But every barrel is different. I’d see how it shoots and how it cleans up before you spend the time doing it.
Slow down Dude.... It's not a race.
Lol….. wow, not very observant are you. The footage was sped up so the video isn’t so long. Like 4x while shooting…. You can’t tell the wind flag is going a lot faster all the sudden, like un naturally?? Or that when I’m settling in on the rifle everything is all twitchy? obviously not or you wouldn’t have commented… OMG you made my day, I needed a good laugh. 😂
Thank you for doing this video .
Most people don’t realize the 10/22 could do 1 inch all day long at 100 yards .
But move to 200 yards . It is 6-8” all day long 😄
Maybe yours
@@fomerbu here come another internet sharpshooter 🤣
Honestly they will shoot MOA with the right ammunition, but the problem I have with even the optional ammunition are the fliers. I shot my 28” Green Mountain build yesterday and it’s a shooter, I’d get 4 shots around a inch and then a damn flier that would make it a 3.5” group, happened several times. If you look at the groups on this video all the 10 round groups were around 4.5” and had 3 fliers. If you remove those fliers the groups were around 2.3” so just over MOA. So they can shoot but the fliers are what kills them. And the “fliers” FPS are not to far off the main group average but we’re way out in left field. There’s something else affecting them and I think it’s the magazine. The ammunition really takes a beating before it reaches the chamber on Ruger pattern magazine rifles. The spring pressure puts a line in the bullet when feeding, then when they first reach the rim of the chamber if the angle is off just a hair the bullet will get a chip taken out of it. You might not notice that at 50 or even 100 yards but at 200 it creates a flier. Some magazines work better then others and if you test enough you can find the good ones. But even those will produce a flier from time to time.
I get one inch at 100 G.M.
@@shannonfritsch6647 all my 10/22s shoot around 3/4” at 100 with the right ammo. 1” with most of the others. Can squeeze out some .5s from time to time. At 200 is where I have the problems. Where a 2.5” flier screws up the groups. Frustrating.
Do you prefer the Arken scope in MIL of MOA, and why?
I like the Mil and it’s just easier to use for me. Now it is less adjustable in mils but that’s just what most people use at matches, and when they say there using a 1.7 hold at 100 yards you know what there talking about.
Can the summit take 10/22 Kidd or shelin barrel?
Yes, but I wouldn’t recommend it. There’s something not right with that action. Tons of accuracy problems. Better off shooting with a 10/22 receiver.
I remember with a Mossberg 702 I used to have I was able to hold the bolt shut with my thumb while shooting for maximum stealth, and was wondering if that would affect accuracy in a good way for you, making it more like a bolt gun
I don’t think it would effect it honestly.
@@RimfireSS wouldn't that make it more like a bolt action though? Or is there weird magical stuff involving harmonics and recoil stuff that just makes bolt guns better?
I suppose the one obvious difference is chambers, but I don't know if anybody would want to purposely use a semi auto chamber in a bolt action just to prove something.
@@SiliconeSword yeah I’m not that adventurous. Lol
@@RimfireSS yeah, bolt chambers are 100% more accurate than semi auto chambers, but it'd definitely be not worth it to experiment with weird things like that. Expensive too, I gotta use that money to buy ¢25 match ammo instead lol.
Any guns have screw in barrels?
Nope. Just the old style
You mean like the original KIDD Supergrade? Are there any other 10/22's with a screw in barrel?
@marzcapone9939 I machined my own amt receiver and barrel blank. It's nice , did a write up on 22 forum
@@vettepicking You are committed my friend. I bought my KIDD back in 2013, it's more accurate than I am.
@@marzcapone9939 I think Grey Birch Fusion has a screw in barrel.
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