My Complete Thoughts On Forward Facing Sonar (Discussion & Solutions)
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- Everyone and their mother has an opinion on Forward Facing Sonar. Some anglers LOVE it, and some HATE it, but most are truly lacking the first hand knowledge needed in order to base a correct opinion on. In this video, I break down my EXACT thoughts on the Livescope epidemic, based upon my vast experience using FFS over the past 5 years, and watching first hand the best pro anglers on the planet use it as well. I'm not ALL FOR or ALL AGAINST this technology in fishing, so listen in as I explain what I think Forward Facing Sonar, and the use of social media has done to us as anglers. SUBSCRIBE if you enjoyed this video, and if you didn't I promise this isn't my usual content, I just thought this topic needed to be covered.
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This video is all about bass fishing, livescope fishing, livescope settings, lvs34, active target 2 vs lvs34, active target vs livescope, forward facing sonar, ffs fishing, livescope crappie, bass fishing tips, pond fishing tips, pond fishing for bass, private pond fishing, giant pond bass, bank fishing, bank fishing tips, bank fishing for bass, and so much more bass fishing tips and tricks!
#fishing
#bassfishing
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Time Stamps:
0:00 - Forward Facing Sonar
0:25 - FFS Discussion Topics
1:48 - What is FFS?
2:40 - The "WHYs" Of Fishing
5:09 - Social Media & Scope
5:47 - Fishing Isn't A Sport
6:39 - Livescope Disconnect
8:40 - Main Anti-FFS Points
9:03 - "Livescope Is Cheating"
10:37 - "Livescope Is Easy"
12:26 - Use Cases For FFS
14:58 - Comparing Our Catches
15:59 - "Snagging Bass"
16:46 - "Scoping Takes No Skill"
17:28 - "FFS Isn't Sportsmanlike"
18:06 - "Just Pan Around"
18:52 - "Pro Anglers Don't Need It"
19:11 - "FFS Is Boring To Watch"
20:13 - Solutions For Tournaments
24:30 - Solutions For States
26:09 - Solutions For Companies
29:38 - Solutions For YOU
31:07 - What's Your "WHY"? - Розваги
Before commenting your own opinion or engaging in discussion with another viewer, PLEASE think twice about your wording and tone🙏🏼 This topic has become incredibly polarizing, and I don't want my comment section to mirror what I've seen around the internet. I just thought I'd take a few minutes to give my take on Forward Facing Sonar after years of using it, and being in the boat with the best "scopers" on the planet. I hope this gives you a new perspective on this wild technology, no matter where you stand on it! 👍🏼
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FFS is the best thing they’ve done. Should’ve done it years ago. You now know if they’re is fish on. Flat or not. Or bank or treetops. Doesn’t mean you’re going to catch them. Still got to do that. I love mine
I think you missing the point. This technology has gone too far. Now you can see the fish live underwater. So If it gets to the point where you can see the fish with a camera, just like an aquarium, would you be ok with that too? What’s the limit? For me, livescope has already gone beyond this limit, it ruined the championships and should be banned. All current sports have rules to limit technology for a reason. And as we know, technology has no limit!
@@madcostaI'm not supporting it but I'm not aganist it. For tournaments it should definitely be banned because it literally is helping you find fish whether they are bass or not. It's literally making it 10 times easier and now all you need to do is get them to bite. Which is easy bass fishing isn't rocket science throw any soft plastic down and if it's a bass it'll eat it. But if ur on a pressured lake then go ahead tbh
My two cents: someone using Livescope or other FFS while not competing is 1000% fine, you go out on the water to catch fish, so might as well catch as many as you can. However, all FFS should be banned in tournaments just like laser range finders are for professional golf. It’s an unfair advantage that shouldn’t be allowed in competition. There really is no other opinion aside from “yes it should be allowed during competition” which I would counter with is it even a competition then if you can see exactly where the fish are?
Following your logic, what level of fishfinder technology is OK to use?
I would say for tournaments, the only things that should be allowed would be a GPS and a screen giving you live depth readings. Anything that gives away the location of fish should be strictly banned so it keeps it fair for all competitors.
Don’t get me wrong, I love watching you smash fish on LiveScope but I think it’s unfair for tournament use.
@@TylersReelFishing quick follow up, I think it’s more unfair for local/regional amateur tournaments more so than professional bass fishing since some people may not have the most up-to-date technologies on their boats as other competitors
@@TylersReelFishing
The kind that doesn't pinpoint where to throw the hook!
@@brandonalan1513Honest question: have you spent much time using FFS? If not, I think you will find it much more difficult than expected and will realize that it still takes mastery of the skill in order for it to provide any competitive advantage.
Sorry man I just can’t agree with you. Using live sonar is the easiest fishing I’ve ever done in my life. I am a former FFS owner. I was pretty darn efficient with it as well, and as cool and great of a learning tool as it was, I was happy when I sold it. It was so easy to catch fish that it became stupid and I just couldn’t ethically enjoy it. Fish simply cannot hide from it. I would literally pull the dumbest lures out of my box to catch fish on just for fun. It takes away nearly all skill required to be a good fisherman, and not to mention also removes the element of surprise out of the sport. And for those who say what about the other technology, I can tell you first hand that live sonar is in no way whatsoever comparable to any other electronic technology out there. Nothing else allows you to find, follow, watch, interact, and dial in your techniques live in real time. From a conservation standpoint I don’t know how anyone ( even as fun as it is to use ) can’t pump the brakes for a second and think, how can this be good for the future and health of our fisheries. Most states can’t afford to just dump more fish in to compensate for it. Nobody talks about stress, delayed mortality, or any mortality even in catch and release fishing. It’s obvious more and bigger fish are being caught than ever before solely due to FFS. Although that sounds awesome, please stop to think about the possible negative impacts FFS may have on the overall health of fisheries.
I absolutely have been thinking about that, and there will be conversations on this channel with fisheries’sbiologists, as more and more data becomes available. I’m highly interested in the data, we just don’t have enough to put into this video yet.
Now, if you don’t mind me asking, where are you fishing that forward facing made it laughably easy? Because 99% of places I have been, that was not the case. And I’ve been ALL OVER
I fish KY, OH, and WV. I’m not trying to come across as some magic stick fisherman, but using FFS was as easy as it gets. Yea sure there are days when fish weren’t chomping but even on the worst days with FFS you can still find bites simply because you are presenting your lures to so many more fish. I’m not afraid to admit for the first couple years I had it I was blown away by it and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, but good grief it gets boring and I truly lost the excitement I once had fishing. I’m sure it sounds weird to some but I started feeling guilty using FFS. There use to be almost an “art” to perfecting certain aspects of fishing and it’s sad to see that on its way out because of live sonar. Now anyone can just drive around until they find whatever fish they are looking for and pitch 20ft casts right on target. I get that their not all going to eat ( I’ve been there ), but a lot of them are, and a lot of them that probably otherwise wouldn’t even have seen a bait that day. I just missed the satisfaction of working hard to catch fish once it became so easy w/ FFS. When you can start cherry picking fish based off their size , something is wrong. Again though, it’s more about preservation of our resources, and not just what I fish for but other species that other fisherman enjoy to target as well. The states can only help so much with funding, stocking, research etc. We are still in the early stages of this technology but just imagine if every boat on the water every weekend on your home lakes was actually efficient with their live sonar. So many more fish are being caught directly due to FFS, something will have to give. Sometimes too much of a good thing is not a good thing.
@@justinlusk86 I believe the right way to regulate it is a lake by lake basis. Ban it on a lake and see what happens compared to other fisheries.
Organized tournament fishing, regardless of the use of FFS or anything else, has a MUCH more detrimental effect on fish populations and mortality rates than anything else. WAY more detrimental than FFS could ever dream of being.
"please stop to think about the possible negative impacts FFS may have on the overall health of fisheries" Lakes have limits because many lakes are overpopulated and smaller fish need to be removed. As far as hurting quality bass... that's what happens when they are yanked off of their beds, kept in a livewell all day, hauled across the lake then die a few days after a weigh-in...
I'm the 4th kind of fisherman.... the "Who Cares?" Type... you do you, let other folk do what they like. Less clicking, more fishing.
I go fishing for the pure enjoyment of fishing. It's how I unwind. I like bank and off-shore fishing. I just purchased by first FFS because of the body of water I fish. It is super pressured and really hard to catch a lot fish. I purely enjoy the thrill of working a fish to the boat or bank. That is best part for me. These pro fisher, it they want to use it, by all means let them. Tyler, I really enjoyed the video. And from one Texas fisherman to another, maybe I'll see you on the water. Keep putting out great videos.
I don’t have live scope but to me it’s just a tool. Also agree, you still have to figure out what the bass want to eat.
Not rocket science to be honest. Throw a senko and guarteed one will bite. If not that try every other lure. You can give them so many different presentations until they bite with live scope.
I think this is the fairest point of view on the topic that I’ve heard. Good stuff Tyler.
Tried to be genuine and thoughtful!
Fishing changed when high school and college leagues started. You now have very polished sophisticated and competitive fishermen at a young age.
And some of the old tournament guys hate it. They had it all to themselves for decades and now they are crying.
I can't speak for when high school teams were started, but college teams started in the early 90's (I wish I would have taken advantage of it when it was available back then).
@@chadschlichting3661 When did BASS or MLF/FLW start officially sanction/sponsor them? Though I can't easily answer that, it hasn't been that long. I live on a lake in TX. I've noticed the high schoolers here occasionally for about a decade. Both teach the same sort of competitive setting one would eventually see on a professional circuit.
@@Steve-ev6vx I do think BASS/MLF tournament fishing has to continue to be appealing to the all viewers who watch it. I'm not sure there are enough young followers of the sport to carry it if old folks become disinterested because it turns to a young man's game. So BASS has some thinking to do about how to present their product.
@@jaym8257 I'm ok with that. The tournaments have grown to large and are a detriment to what the sport is suppose to be. I also take issue with guys making a living off the back of our fisheries. Tournament anglers and freshwater guides might just need to go the way of dinosaurs to save our freshwater fisheries.
Excellently presented. This was like a senior thesis. Well done, Tyler! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
The issue(s) I have seen with FFS is/are:
1. Fish can no longer hide, meaning fish were safe and unmolested in deeper water. They could escape fishing pressure.
2. Anglers/“meat hunters” abusing regulations and disregarding limits leading to increased fishing pressure and over fishing.
What I see happening bc of FFS is states changing their regulations to impose smaller daily limits; stricter size limits/stricter slot limits to combat increased fishing pressure/over fishing; and specific “seasons”/dates/time of year anglers can fish for specific species.
Don’t get me wrong, for example, I hunt using thermals. I use them for feral hogs and depredation. I know that people poach with them which has led states to strictly regulate/restrict their use, and times of year they can and can not be used.
Definitely could see stuff like that happening. Again though, the increase in use of forward facing would have to show a measurable decrease in fish populations, which I think would be a very tough threshold to meet.
"Comparison is the thief of Joy" are some of the wisest words I've heard you say in the 7 years of subscribing to your channel.
That's from another video not by him
@@ambassin3280he’s quoting Teddy Rosevelt.
I never claimed to be the originator of that quote😂
@@ambassin3280 that quote isn’t from anyone’s video. It’s most commonly associated with Theodore Roosevelt and has been around since before any of us were born
Tyler in really learning bass fishing from the very beginning it’s already complicated system and somewhat very overwhelming. Thank you so much for enlightening me in this subject I’m 52 years old and have fished for trout most my life just what I have learned through UA-cam I am so anticipating to get myself on lake to start fishing. Your channel has inspired me to start the right way and I appreciate it so much from learning from you. Learning the basics finding the fish front the weather, temperature, wind and the structures they hide in is where I’m beginning. When the time is right if the time is right to include advancements with technologies I will decide than. Thank you so much for sharing take care brother and God bless.
The impact FFS is having on big bass in smaller lakes is devastating. They continue to catch the biggest bass until there are no more big bass. On my favorite
lake pre-FFS big bass were 6-8lbs. Then FFS became popular and it went to 10-12lb. The last two years the big bass were 5-6lbs.
I could definitely understand the effect on big dumb ones in small lakes. Good point
Out of respect for you and all involved I deleted my comment and will just say we can agree to disagree. You’re an invaluable asset to anyone of any level of fishing knowledge and I deeply respect you for it. In my early 40s (about 10 years ago now) I dove headlong into the hobby of fishing. When I was a kid I’d watch all the fishing competitions I could and outdoors shows about fishing I could but never had a chance to go myself. Now that most of my kids are grown and I did a lot of soul searching I’ve found channels like yours and began going out fishing anywhere anytime I could. I also spent a lot of time on UA-cam watching and rewatching and learning from many channels like yours and some not like yours but could never repay you for all you’ve taught me. So while we may disagree on this one thing, I’m not going to let it stop me from supporting you any way I can and am thankful you’ve chosen this path in life and shared so much with us all. God bless. Much love to you all.
That is very kind and civil.
If "FFS" is sooo easy, they every old dog pro out there who's mastered fishing would be slaying everyone else... Or is it they chose to not take the time to learn the new tech and only want to live off of their old waypoints they collect and share with their buddies. Watching Trey, AJ Jr. DC or Wheeler locate and target schools of fish not really related to any one waypoint has changed the game. They have the skill to know when and where fish should be schooled up, points/ledges post-spawn for example, and both side and forward imaging help time save time by elimiting areas that the schools are not sitting on. Why is that so hard for people to understand? They are saving time, energy, gas/oil and tournament time by eliminating empty water.
Many people believe those last things you mentioned are integral parts of the sport, that’s why they hate FFS
I fully agree with your take on livescope. I acknowledge you probably aren't a hunter, but I still want to acknowledge what you said about hunting deer with corn. The reason why it's so frowned upon is because it defeats the entire premise that makes it hunting. Hunting implies there is chase. . That inherently removes any "chase" because you are artficially changing a deer's natural patterns. As defined by any state DNR, hunting must involve "fair chase". There is no fair chase when you make deer move unnaturally.
Thanks Tyler! Bank / fly angler here and a long time fan of your channel. I just fish for fun and don't have an opinion here, but I did want to thank you for a really insightful and unbiased video on this. Really great video and it's good to see civil discussion in the community you've built. Keep getting people excited about fishing and conservation! 🐟
Yeah that's me. None of this even effects the places I fish.
I'll second that. I appreciate your whole approach to the issue. It's MUCH more mature than some other YT'ers I won't name who get up on their soap box and think they have some moral right to denigrate, belittle and insult an entire segment of the fishing community simply because they don't fish the way this person (or people...) insists they ought to fish. That person (or people...😶🙄) thinks that they are the only arbiter of what "real angling" is. It's truly nauseating.
excellent well thought out explanation! Good work!
This is the most well thought out explanation online. Great job young man!!!!!!😊😊😊
I appreciate that!
Thanks for adressing this Tyler, you did a great job trying to be open to every fisherman👍🏻
Nice job taking a look at the big picture here. Lots of different angles to consider.
More fire in this video than a California Summer 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
🔥
Just wanted to say I really appreciate the way you educate and explain things. Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
@@TylersReelFishing Pretty jealous that you get to learn from AJ Jr every day, dudes a hammer.
Tylerreelfishing. You took the words out of my mouth. Amazing presentation and explanation. You never fail to turn something complicated to something simple. Thank you. We need more positivity in the world and also the fishing world.
I appreciate that!
Good points here.
I still feel like there this discussion lines up with a recent one I had regarding The Olympics: two separate divisions.
A no limits anything goes division: FFS, jet engines, steroids, drugs, more screens than that room in The Matrix, go nuts and do what you want.
And an "analogue/natural" division: No sonars, no screens, no motors, no steroids, paper maps, just anglers in a rowboat with some rods fishing using the knowledge they've got in their brain.
if you every deny an advancement of any kind your denying advancement of all kinds. Knowledge should not be hindered
Well, I don't agree with much of what you said. However, I thoroughly enjoyed the video. It encompassed most perspectives.
Keep 'em coming. Thanks.
This is by far the most accurate and convincing video I have seen on FFS. Well done!
As an amateur, recreational angler who has had FFS on my boat for the past 2 seasons, I can say with 100% confidence that FFS alone does not make fishing easier. Locating and targeting bass using FFS is extremely difficult and the pro anglers who use it to their advantage have spent an inordinate amount of time in mastering the skill.
I do not own any FFS. I am intrigued but I’m a shallow water guy. I love the technology. I have the old school side scan and down scan lol. What I have learned is amazing. I love the fact that we as fishermen and women are learning. What I don’t like is being accused of cheating or allowing or condoning cheating, being a livescope lover weenie. What I love the most over what you said is just because one had to do it the hard way, well I don’t have to do it like that anymore.
I really appreciate this video.
God bless Tyler
When it comes to open water fishing they couldn't do it at all, hard or not. They just didn't catch those fish.
The only thing that should be live is the angler and the bass imo
I believe it's not cheating I use live scope and still learning with it if u don't like it don't use it just my personal opinion
At the end of the day….thank god we live in America!!! Do what you want. Cheers
Solution: worry less about how other people choose to fish and more about how YOU fish…
Just because someone has livescope doesn't meam they are going to catch fish! Its like just because someone drives a Ferrari doesn't mean they know how to race
I do not see a problem either way. It is just another tool in the toolbox. I’ve just always thought it would be cool if there was competition that didn’t allow anything besides charts. Just make some guys go out there and figure out the water way
I think trails will move to half with half without
Great video Tyler.👍
Well said. Thank you!
Anytime I hear chase a fish down and make it eat makes my stomach churn
And that's ok! FFS hurts your "why", and there's nothing wrong with that
Have you tried Tums?
I am a bank only fisher. I enjoy the thought of using FFS (Forward Facing Sonar) and even have a Deeper unit for hunting from shore but I love the thrill of the hunt. Finding the fish and figuring out what they want. I've had 3+ 30 plus bass days in Wisconsin while I watch everyone else catch just a few. I watched a short about Why I Fish, it's not about the catch. It's knowing that no matter I made the difference in whether or not I catch anything
I think it’s an additional tool in fishing. Use it or not, can lead to new means of tournament catch categories. Definitely a change in the game.
As someone who has never owned FFS and not even a boat, i still don't think it is cheating, just because you take a horse to water doesn't mean you can make it drink, as someone who fishes ponds I've seen bass on beds in person and still not be able to get them to bite, I wish that to make everyone happy there would be a better balance in the MLF where some tournaments didn't allow FFS but some still did, everyone would get the best of both worlds. If someone has a huge probelm with it then just don't use it but to deny someone that loves FFS the ability to use it just seems ridiculous. At the end of the day fishing should bring enjoyment to you regardless if youre an MLF pro or a pond prowler, let people fish the way that makes them happy and you do the same, everyone wins
Ok, watched the whole thing. I fish for the places it takes me and the people I meet so that make me “Group 3”, so I don’t have a dog in the fight. I will say I’m less impressed with a big fish or stringer if it’s done with Live Scope.
Complaining about Pros using it is a bit like complaining about Pro Racers using DRS in F1 or adding crazy downforce to a hill climb car. But I am still maybe more impressed with someone that squeezes a fast lap out of a car that shouldn’t be that fast, even if it’s slower than the pure race car.
Great takes
There’s another group of anglers out there that enjoy learning and hunting for fish. Their satisfaction comes from gaining the knowledge through experience every time they’re on the water. I’ve been fishing for over 40 years. I’ve never used any kind of electronics on any boat I’ve ever had and I’ve always caught fish. I’ve consistently out fished people with all kinds of electronics. I just recently bought a boat with some screens on it, but no forward facing sonar. I have down and side scan and I have Navionics. The only useful feature for me so far are the maps showing the depths of the lake which allows me to fish points, drop offs, ledges. I’m still learning how to use the scans. If they made live scope more affordable, I’d probably buy it. I’d love to fish tournaments, But the average Joe can’t afford $10-20k for electronics and 90% of the guys even in the local you are running live scope. Some of the pros are running 6 screens and $30k worth of electronics on top of their $100k boats. It’s getting totally ridiculous. Pro Tournaments should go back to the days where boats were provided for anglers and all of them were rigged out the same to keep the competition fair and equal.
Thanks for the comment! A few responses:
1. You are in group 3, coulda lumped those characteristics in
2. You can get a used live scope system for less than $1,500, so your pricing is way off
3 I discussed professional anglers, and their obscene electronics set ups in this video. Talked about how perception seems to be reality, but it’s not. These pros do not need all of that, but because they are allowed to, they do. You do not need their set up to compete, and I proved that by citing Dustin Connell.
I'd say if you can afford it and want to use it, use it. If you do not want to, then don't. People should not be judged for what they do either way
And then there is 4th category.. the weekend worrier who rarely gets the chance to get out and can't choose the conditions when he does. FFS would certainly make it a lot more fun and successful the few days I do get to go out.. pity about the price of these units, especially with dollar exchange 😮🇿🇦
It seems most folks don’t like FFS because it was such a large jump in technology that it made those that don’t like it the “get off my grass” type of grumpy old guys.
I would agree
I can relate that, the most frustrating thing is casting at fish that aren’t even bass, and not understanding why you don’t catch anything
For sure
As soon as i save enough $ i will be installing FFS on my boat, maybe by Fall i hope, can't wait, studying now.
Well put together video. The only point I would disagree with is about lure sales being down. I don’t think it has anything to do with FFS. I’m a bank angler and spots that I used to have to myself now have have 2-3 anglers at any given time. I’ve bumped into so many bank anglers in past 4 years. None of us have FFS. But I can tell you price, is the topic that comes up a lot. Rods that I bought 3-4 years ago that were $150-170 are now $215-230. Some of my favorite hard baits and soft plastics have jumped $2-3. Price gouging, conglomerate corporations buying small rod/ bait companies, along with intentional material shortages created a false demand. As a result companies ramped up productions and now we’re seeing the effect. I’ve scaled back on purchasing baits and what I’m willing to spend on rods because of the rod companies being bought out (dobyns, virtus jewel, 13 ). It’s an unstable market at the moment. Nothing to do with FFS.
I could see that being a factor, but I’ve heard from the companies themselves that they believe their product sales are down because of it. I wouldn’t be so quick to say “nothing to do”
@@TylersReelFishing very fair criticism in saying not to be so quick to state “nothing to do with”. That was definitely made in frustration after learning of the 13 fishing, virtus jewel, and dobyns sales. Companies I worked hard to save up to purchase products based on warranty offers etc. it’s a tough time for fishing.
I’ve listened to a few opinions and TRF said it the best I’ve heard from any pro angler in socials or in the big tourneys. FIND YOUR WHY and if this isn’t your why you fish or spend the money in this sport, do it your way. Stop watching the socials and programs and influencers/anglers will change. If the money is in Livescope, well the anglers, fans, and (big group here) companies developing these products/tools WILL CHANGE. This makes money and no company lists products that collect dust on the shelves.
i have commented lot on this video but i just want to say very mature video and i’m glad your position is clear and you’re not a waffle like some are
also 100% agree about how tackle companies should be marketing
you'll become a better angler if you wish to!
thx
PEASE KEEP SCOPING!!!! It makes life BETTER for us guys who like to fish shallow. These fish are getting wildly less pressure because everyone on my home lake is fishing offshore. Keep in mind that I’m a bank and kayak guy who’s just 14, so I’m not exactly like old man Randy Blaukat! 😂
Haha good!
FFS doesn’t meant the fish is going to bite. Just shows you where the fish are. I go out and fish with active target. I see if I see fish strike at the bait but doesn’t me I’m gonna catch them
I could see tons of fish today, didn't mean I could get any of them to bite. I visually cast at about 50 fish today, caught 2.
well said.
from watching you and others ffs imho is best at getting bait in front of face of fish. Still requires skill to catch fish. but to be able to put it in area of fish and know where lure is in relation to the fish very helpful. imho but im a bank fisherman.
I've just seen a Randy Boggs video for the first time today, and he definitely seemed like one of those types. The video I watched was about braid to flouro, and how it's dumb. Hell, his description of people that talk about hook sets being better on braid sounded exactly like Tyler. Lol.
honestly, I really don't care if people use live scope. I'm fishing from the bank, so i'm really not competing with the people out there on the water that I can't reach anyway. I still love fishing even if i'll never have access to the level of fishing that those out there that have a boat and live scope do.
Side note: as a Taylor Swift fan my ears perked up a lil extra when you said her name. lmao
Thanks for watching! Love having viewers like you around the channel 👍🏼
I think the more aplicicable hunting comparison is spinning wing decoys for duck hunting. Waterfowlers either love them and have 67 spinners in their spread, or hate them so much they want them banned. There are very few that are on the fence about them.
Just like mojos, FFS is a tool. They aid in getting bird's attention, but they don't kill the birds for you. FFS gives you a view of the fish, but it doesn't put them on your hook.
Even more than that would be cell cams
Most sports have different divisions, take competitive shooting. There is a division based on what gun you have. If fishing created a Pro Unlimited, Limited, and standard division each allowing unlimited electronics down to no electronics. This might increase the accessibility into the sport allowing people to upgrade as they win more in the sport!
The problem is, there might not be many sponsor dollars going towards the “standard” division. Anglers are gonna fish where they can make the most money
hey tyler ! it’s that time again year again hybrid hunter frogs and thunder crickets around the ponds! man im telling you that frog bite is something else can’t wait to see that frog on the 100 ponds!
You’ll be getting sick of it eventually 😂
@@TylersReelFishing i know it lol😂
As a kayak fisherman in small tourneys, it is incredibly discouraging competing with those out there with livescope. I fished one in late Feb. Before the sun had given enough light to clearly see an angler fishing open water right off the ramp had caught 3 using FFS. When we pushed in I asked which direction he was heading and I’d go the other way. He said, “I’m just going to be scouting out here in the open; you won’t be in my way.” I was pitching cypress and docks on Santee and just couldn’t compete with these guys.
With all due respect, that is a solvable problem. Learn to use it and you’ll compete better than they do because you’re probably a better natural angler. Combine the two like the top pros have done, and you’ll be unstoppable
Some people dont have 3 to 5k just laying around to get good with it to be able to compete. Not sure if that is his financial situation or if he doesnt like ffs. Your solution doesnt help with either of those problems though...@@TylersReelFishing
@@TylersReelFishing I hope to someday be able afford to use it. In the meantime, I’ll just be the grumpy old guy shaking my fist at these darn kids and their technology. 🤪 😉
Great thoughts and ideas. Consider this analogy, I view “fish finder” use (forward facing, 360, etc) no different than using polarized sunglasses when I fly fish for trout or bass fish along the bank. They help identify that the fish are at the favorable location I chose. Does that mean I am cheating when I use polarized glasses?
Some would have to say so
I have never used any of them I have seem videos of people using them and some are catching more fish and some still not catching very many I just like catching fish some just to relax and some for food
I think the pros should do the best of both worlds have some lakes tournaments not use ffs and others do. To get the most points you would have to be knowledgeable with and with ought sonar. Try and make everybody get a little something they like.
Yeah I think that’s the only reasonable change
A couple videos ago I commented “Can you make a video on when and where to use each type of bait. For example “ this is the spinner bait. You want to use it when it’s windy in clear water around shallow cover. This is the sinko you want to use it….” You replied it saying it would be structured a little differently. Can you please tell me what you are thinking of naming that video so I know what to look for. Thanks.
I don’t have it planned yet, but I assume the title will be something like “Every Fishing Lure You Need For Bass Fishing (And How To Use Them)”
@@TylersReelFishing Thanks!
What do you do for a living? You have a nice boat, and house, and get to fish sooo much. Im working 60hrs a week just to pay my mortgage and car and basic necessities. Curious because I wanna do what you do!!
I don't fish tournaments or watch them on TV so I really couldn't care less. However I think eventually they will have to draw the line on technology somewhere. Imagine say 10 years from now a tournament fisherman standing on the deck of his boat wearing a VR headset. He sees the bottom, the fish and all the structure as though there is no water in the lake. I really see this as a possibility in the not so distant future.
I already saw a pro guy on UA-cam hook his vr headset to his livescope and fish with it that way....
Yeah but that’s so tough to use. Not practical and never will be
@@TylersReelFishing Well as of now its impractical. Who knows in the future what they will make next.
I'm sympathetic to the point that FFS is just the latest in a line of technology that's changing fishing. That argument though begs the question "when is enough, enough?" Today it's blurry blobs where you still have to understand many things to actually catch that blob. What about in 10 years when AI gets added to these things and the resolution is 100X what it is today? When it's wirelessly coupled to your DC reel and trolling motor so that after it tells you what bait to throw the reel ensures it goes the right distance? At some point you've put Tesla Auto-pilot in your NASCAR and there really isn't much special about the drivers any more. I'm not saying FFS is that point for fishing. I'm saying it's enough tech that questioning it is probably a good thing. Unless we find a way to speed up evolution, we're going to be forced to control our own technological development at some point.
There's the separate question of how driving up the cost of being an "average" fisherman affects the activity long term. Lots of hobbies are seeing population declines due to the increased costs of participation. With our waters nearly 100% funded by license sales, keeping fishing an attainable activity is critical. FFS is not alone as a culprit here by any means, but it's not helping either.
To your first paragraph, I completely agree. I’m not sure, though, judging based on human behavior in the past with technology, if we can stop.
to your second paragraph, I think you will see a surge in pond and small lake fishing, and the building and managing of bodies of water that are for those purposes
@@TylersReelFishing Thanks for the reply and for the level headed approach to this topic. There's evidence to support both of your thoughts. We'll see how AI plays out, but there has already been a big surge in creek/ultralight/kayak and all manner of less complicated or costly fishing styles. The farther into the stratosphere the high end goes, the more a "back to basics" approach looks like a viable active choice and not just that you're somehow left behind.
FFS is like tinder
You aren’t guaranteed anything but your chances are a lot better 😂
Haha
I’m keeping zoom in business the best I can. I go through a bag of Speedworms pretty quick and have to buy em over n over lol
Good! Haha
I appreciate you bringing up this topic Tyler! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, but I think you are missing a few things. Go listen to Chris Zaldains podcast with Bill Lowen.
What do they discuss? I don’t have time right now to watch a long podcast
I never would of believed FFS would have created so much controversy. In my personal opinion. FFS is the new boogeyman of the fishing industry. I will humbly agree that it's having both a positive and negative impact on the world of fishing. However, like so many new found controversies. To many things are being blamed on FFS. Bait sales is one of them. I would argue that the ever increasing amount of baits and amateur bait makers is more to blame than FFS. At the end of the day, there is only so much room on store shelves. As for FFS over kill. There will always be those people that will take things to extremes. I saw an old video the other day of a Bass competition and the Anglers were only aloud 5 rods. There are boats now with multiple rod locks capable of holding 10 or more rods and all of them are over stuffed. Some of the guys complaining about FFS just can't admit that there no longer in there fishing prime. Randy Blaukat is an easy example. His excuse right now is FFS, but what was his excuse 2, 3, or even 4 years before FFS came out. The decline in his performance didn't just start with the arrival of FFS. Hell, I barely even heard of him till he started complaining about FFS. It's the person yelling prejudice for not getting a job or getting fired and conveniently leaving out details like. Always being late, pour work performance, calling in sick all of the time, making inappropriate jokes in the work place. No, it can't possibly be any of those things. It must be race or sex discrimination. Again, there are pros and cons to FFS, and I think the sport should look at it as a whole, but in order to do that effectively. It's needs to be looked at from a realistic prospective. The same basic rule of thumb still applies. Just because you see the fish, doesn't mean the fish is automatically going to take the bait your showing him. I fished with a guy once and we saw a 6 lb pound just chilling out. We did everything but scoop him up with a net. He just eventually swam off. He just wasn't interested in anything we threw at it. Sometimes, there just not interested.
You don't have to be Mark Twain to be wise. Wisdom doesn't have to be original to be inspiring.
I can agree ffs is not as easy to use as people make it look... I'm new to bass fishing I have no idea what areas to fish.. I have been using ffs for months now and still don't know if I am looking at fish leaves sticks floating or shad... But I haven't been able to catch one fish from looking at ffs might have the settings wrong might be a hundred other reasons but I don't find it easy in any way.. there's so many factors you have to line up to be able to use ffs to catch fish ... current ,wind ,keeping your ffs sensor in the exact area of the fish and then you still have to have a lure they're interested in ..know how to work it and get it in the area of the water column... then it's probably not even a bass
It really don’t matter what anyone thinks, only BASS and MLF has the final say on forward facing sonar.
Correct
I dont have it, but don't consider it cheating. I dont really care about tournamnets, thats not why I fish.
👍🏼
Bring back trolling and live bait to level the playing field for those of us who can't spend 10K on electronics.
I’d be in favor of trolling honestly haha
youthn wave uses sonar
Another point, I don’t agree with your opinion that pro fishing tournaments should be “wide open”, “no hole barred”, “anything goes” tourneys. (Because if that is the case, they can use a “telephone” and a seine net, screw the fishing pole.)That will continues to be a case of the “haves” and “ have nots”.
Maybe make all pro tournaments like the original bass master classics. All boats are setup identical (some tourneys FFS, some not). And only allow the anglers so much individual tackle/gear. That way it would test more of the skill set(s) of the individual.
To your first point, I guess I miss-spoke on the “no rules” I lobbied for. There would still be some like no live bait and it has to be a rod and reel. But I feel like that would be a no brainer.
And to your second, I agree! I loved that old format, and the old format of the MLF cups on TV
Someone who doesn't understand the spotlighting analogy just doesn't understand!
Irony at its finest! 😂👍
Spotlighting: Can see the animal, they freeze in place, and you shoot them
Scoping: You can see the fish, they move away, you cast, you miss, they move again, you cast again, they follow your lure all the way to the boat, they don’t eat your lure
Not at all the same
Boomers.
I have no problem with livescope it’s definitely on my list and looks really fun to mess with BUT I do see it as almost a pay to win. What about the guys in smaller tournaments that can’t even afford it. I see this all the time in F1 racing, the guys with the most money and budget get the most out of technology and win almost every time.
No sport once it gains world wide appeal, stays dirt cheap to compete in. Just how these kinds of things go
I don’t have a problem with FFS, what I don’t like about it is the price point that makes it unobtainable to some of your average fishermen. I know electronics aren’t cheap but 5k for a new setup is in my opinion only targeting those with the money to toss around and not you’re average fishermen.
You can get a 93sv and used Livescope transducer for far less than 5K
@@TylersReelFishing I completely agree with being able to find one used for less i’m just particular with how I take care of my electronics and not everyone is the same. That being said I look at used ones all the time just can’t get myself to pull the trigger on one.
it needs to stay unobtainable
@@DshaunBirch I would like to have it but honestly I’m good with what I have and it isn’t much, down-scan, side-scan, 2d sonar but I don’t really use it other then to find structures on the bottom. I’m old school water temp, moon phase, pressure, season, and the unknown of when you’re going to get the bite. The only reason I would want it is to learn more about bass in general imo it’s a great tool if used correctly but too many people rely on it to catch fish and if people thought the fish was pressured before just wait till it gets harder when fish are pressured from all angles with nowhere to hide.
Tyler, I appreciate your efforts. I'm completely against Live Scope and respectfully think it should be illegal. Keep up the content!
Will do!
Bank anglers: wait you guys are catching fish???
I caught a 2 and a 5 pounder off the bank today. Have 12 fish over two pounds from the bank since April 1st.
@@Steve-ev6vx nice! I'm on 10 skunks in a row, across two different lakes 🤣
@@andrewnelsen1004 hang in there man, you'll find em. I was driving past a flooded creek spillway in town today and saw the bass out there stricking. Ran to the house and grabbed a rod. 😂 My neighbor claimed he caught a 6 pounder in the creek last week and I didn't believe him, guess I was wrong. I saw several that were pushing 6 or 7.
I don't fish competitively, or even own a boat. FFS don't really mean much to me. But I get it; when money is involved competition gets really tough. Professional anglers needs to keep up with whichever tools are available to their disposal. And now the newest tool is FFS.
I learned tons of stuff on UA-cam, and there's plenty of articles on the net on how to use different lures or the apps that are available on fishing. If we're talking about "old-school", then I'd have to go looking for tackle shop owners or some seasoned angler willing to take me in. But now that's only one of many options available now on how to learn fishing.
New tech is always going to appear like "cheating", no matter what. Once upon a time, anglers who were using lures instead of live bait were accused of cheating. Fast forward a few years, anglers who started using the first generation of fish sonars were accused of cheating. Now it's just history repeating itself; anglers who are fully utilising FFS are accused of cheating again.
Yep, and with social media those few years of change are amplified
agree exept pop country is not country
Haha
It is, you just don’t like it
@@TylersReelFishing your definitely a pop country guy
i bank fish and dont use any sort of fishfinder...i like it that way.....dont really care how others do it...its a personal choice i dont care what the pros do its like golf watching it on tv is the last thing i wanna do.
I just know if the grid goes down that I'm not going to go hungry because I know how to catch fish. Praise YAHWEH I'm not going hungry
I was with you the whole way until the part where you said pop country was still country 😅
It is though. Just not the country you like
electronics has replaced talent hahaha yea , i said it .
No, it hasn’t. If you traveled on tour and were actually IN THE BOAT with the pros like I am, you’d flip that opinion fast
@@TylersReelFishingThen why are the pros always saying they wouldn't have won without their ffs, or they couldn't have caught a fish that day without FFS, etc
Ok, you said it. Now what...?
Because you can walk and chew gum at the same time. You can have immense skill, and increase success (winning) with a new skill added to your repertoire (scoping).
I literally spend 10 weeks a year with the best anglers on the planet. I have seen firsthand exactly what I talked about.
@@TheAverageFisherman99yes and why would anglers be saying they have to have it to compete? if it were just another tool and not that big of deal they wouldn’t feel that way. no one is saying “man i can’t show my face without my junebug trick worm im just giving my money away without it”
the “oh it doesn’t make them bite” argument also doesn’t cut muster either. i liken it to steroids in pro sports…me and you taking roids and missing weight isn’t going to make me able to beat devin haney in a boxing match but when both parties are at the skill level of ryan garcia and devin haney that extra 3lbs and then roids allowed garcia to smack that boy all over the ring
scope is the same it’s not “just another tool” when it creates such a dominant disparity amongst skilled anglers to the point where, yes, there is absolutely a codependency upon ffs now whether the angler wants to have to use it or not so i think the “just another tool” is ridiculous when it comes to competitive angling when i hear it i can’t help comparing it to LA dope fiends that swear they can get off that stuff but they can’t they just keep stealing radios for their next hit i really don’t look at the dependency favorably
I don't care if someone uses any electronics or not . I'm sorry you can't make a fish eat if it doesn't want to. Plain and simple it's a tool just like a trolling motor . Everything we use while fishing is helping us catch fish . More people think it's wrong to bed fish than FFS . I'd rather see all the bass tournaments switch over to catch photo release or catch weigh release. Stop the weigh-ins and save the lives of hundreds of fish every year . Then again 90% of the people don't like it because they don't wanna spent $1200.00 or more to have the FFS system . If I could swing buying the system you can bet I would have it and do my best to learn it .
I agree, CWL needs to be the format for every tournament. You run into a lot of cheaters if that format was all the way down to lower levels
@TylersReelFishing I kayak fish, so we just CPR, and every fish has to be submitted to be judged to meet a certain standard. And with the identifier made to a certain standard it makes it hard to cheat . The program even picks up on markings to show you submitted a fish twice if someone is trying to cheat .
Ffs doesn’t affect me one way or another, I’m a bank fisherman primarily. Technology is the way of the world and is always evolving. Ffs is a tool, you still have to get the fish to eat the bait and know what they want. It’s boring to watch tournament coverage with everyone staring at a screen but the outcome is the same, pro anglers catching big fish and showing us their skill at catching fish.
I don't think it's cheating. Technology is technology. I do think that as we move forward we are in danger of removing the great outdoors from the great outdoors.
Correct
Tyler I love your videos .... all of them you present an interesting take on ffs and its use but if im going tbh here no matter what it is in life we will always find a way to justify what it is we want. You cant pick and choose your particular definition of what cheating is or isnt,😊 either it is or it isn't. The price of these units is outrageous to begin with and out of sight of most anglers and when you look at tournaments which really should be only about skill from everyone involved and now only the select few that can afford or are given such luxuries are able to win them. While im not opposed to new technology and it is VERY cool to see it and what it is capable of it really does give an unfair advantage to some. Im sorry if you are unable to see that maybe you have forgotten your beginnings. Anyway keep up the great vids ill continue to watch and learn.
Man not sure how to respond to this one, you said a lot of stuff 😂 I make 4 pond videos a month, I haven’t forgotten my beginnings, if anything I have leaned into them more than I ever have on this channel.
Is your problem with four facing that you think it is cheating, or the price? Because you can buy a used live scope system for a lot cheaper than you might think, so realistically that should be a hold up .
And in response to the “unfair advantage”, facing is not the greatest of those by far. The greatest advantage is free time, to be able to fish more and understand the lakes to a greater degree. The second advantage is a functional engine and batteries, which without those you cannot get to your fish anyways.
One forward facing screen or lack there of is not the reason people cannot compete anymore
The "price is outrageous?" Most of the boaters already have the head unit... how is adding a transducer that cost the same as an iPhone or hight end rod/reel combo "outragious". You can buy refurbed units and save a ton.
@@TylersReelFishing people are very polarized on this topic and feel what they feel. I applaud your view but I don't really think you will change anyone's mind on this issue. nor does it look as though your mind will be changed best just to let ppl fish how they want to fish (which is what my wife maintains on this issue) anyway thanks for your view on it
My mind can 100% be changed. If fisheries departments can prove that scope vastly hurts fish populations, I’ll be on board to ban it. But my “why” isn’t gonna change. I still want to reel em in
@TylersReelFishing Reel them in? I think everyone wants that all the time it would be nice and with FFS it certainly becomes possible. I just happen to think there's more to fishing 🎣 than just reeling them in all the time. If by chance I get skunked it's no big deal its more about being out there than anything. I know you know what I'm saying, catching is GREAT but it's more about the quiet time and trying to catch something that doesn't want to be caught. Like I said love your videos keep up the great work. Tight Lines.
If you deny technology companies from having their products used in tournaments, where does the money come from? I watch a lot of videos on this subject and the naysayers on FFS never talk about that. You touched on this Tyler, high school and college fishing is turning out a lot more people wanting to do this as a career. The endemic sponsors are not enough in my opinion to support this huge influx. What i see over and over is, I don't like technology, just don't touch the technology that I like.
In all reality though, electronics companies are not spending all that much money on professional fishing, as in sponsoring the leagues
So are you saying that electronics companies sponsorship dollars aren't needed?
Tours would survive without them, yes
Im sorry but it is not difficult at all, ive used ffs and its difficult to catch fish at all idc how far anyone has ever traveled to fish. On my boat now i have a simple FF just for depth and the wife and i enjoy going out and fishing and finding the fish. All sports have bans on performance enhancing yet this is not considered performance enhancing.
It's such a grey area. Think about the percentage of pro Anglers who actually have $120,000 bass boat, let alone use the forward facing Radar? The percentage of fisherman who actually use this is beyond low, maybe 6%. So l believe half the pro tournaments should be ffr and the other is no ffr.
You know what they say, you can't unring the Bell
Ding ding
@@TylersReelFishing 🤣