Fiat-Revelli 1914
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- / vbbsmyt
The Fiat-Revelli model 1914 is an interesting Italian design that fires 6.5mm cartridges at a rate of about 450 per minute. It uses a box magazine with 10 columns of 5 cartridges. As each column is emptied, the internal mechanism indexes the magazine to present the next column. The army version has a water jacket that can be filled from an external tank. Water can be pumped in continuously, overflowing into the outlet pipe, or the jacket can be topped up when needed allowing steam to exhaust into the tank. An aircraft version uses a heavy fluted air-cooled barrel, and a 100-round magazine.
I am happy to discuss more details of the Revelli with my Patrons, so please consider sponsoring me through www.patreon.com.
That's a hell of a clipazine.
The only gun in the world that can take clipazine.
Probably why it didn't catch on. Imagine having to build hundreds of those things to that kind of precision? And then they get dinged up in combat...
iirc, the autocannon originally developed for the IL-2 used something similar. The soviets thought it was terrible and had the designer executed.
@@evanwickstrom5698
a bruh moment for the designer
My thoughts were, is it built of a stack of en-bloc clips for Carcano rifles? If so, it's less of a problem. Even better if the magazine is simply a rack for the pre loaded clips. Then the machine gun ammunition is interchangeable with the rifles, which come in pre loaded en-bloc clips, four or five to a packet, and the clips are single use disposable (in theory), so getting dinged up isn't such a problem.
Funky Italians and their funky machine guns...
And then came Scotti and almost made them switch to good designs. It's actually shows how bad the officials were considering such talented people like italian Scotti and hungarian Gebauer didn't make much of an impact overall. Nowaday you can hardly find anything about their work. There is only single Gebauer machine gun in working condition in existence and all the prototypes of new Scotti guns were lost, including his light machine gun.
He didnt say he was offended
A closed-bolt semiautomatic HMG? Quick! Someone start making reproductions of these.
Oh gosh no. Haha. Talk about a flop. haha
sharkfinbite indeed. Seems like one such product would sell as much as a reproduction nordenfelt gun, in that they exist, but are stupid expensive and there is maybe one group that makes them.
For water-cooled MGs being the bolt closed or open is not a issue. As long as there is water, the MG, will never reach dangerous temperatures and, if there is no more water, the MG will not last more than a few rounds anyway.
Neutron Alchemist cook-offs are still a risk with closed bolt MGs. Plus having an open bolt system aids in cooling without sacrificing weight.
@@jackandersen1262 The chamber of water cooled MGs can't exceed 100°C, so cook-offs are not a risk. In this design the striker's spring is the recoil spring, so it being closed bolt doesn't add any weight or complexity (is actually far simpler than other designs).
This is a real genius mechanism
More like strange one. Why is that spring bolt thingy uncovered? I'd imagine it would get dirty very easily jamming the whole mechanism. In fact it looks like it's missing one piece of metal plating. Also that box type feeding system. Looks pretty complex. Must have been a bitch to produce those in big numbers. They also look like, they'd get dirty rather easily.
wars not functional.
Mechnism is simply bad
Cube View yeah but it is really really complicated. Look at all the moving parts and how little they all are. Really not something you want in a machine gun.
@@augustdenger8231 have you seen how a vickers works? This is way more durable than many hmg of ww1
I'm so happy that you followed my suggestion and managed to make this video!
The FIAT-Revelli M1914 is definitely my favourite WWI Machinegun, it's no doubt the simplest and most cost efficient one while still being more than field serviceble, easy to clean and operate with great reliability due to its semplicity.
And it's really interesting that the operating system is pretty much identical to the one of the M1912 Glisenti service pistol.
followed *your* suggestion? confirmation bias much? haha
@@Limescale12
Look, I didn't say that I am the only one who suggested it,but the author actually answered to me and later another guy provided him a link to some italian documentation, I forgot under which video this happened, something tells me the Browning M1895 one.
How on Earth is this gun both simple and cost efficient? It looks like the most complicated of weapons of it's class for that war.
@@eisenkrieg553
Then you haven't seen the internals of a lot of firearms. This is a remarkably simple gun even by WWII standards, take a look at a standard Maxim Gun, pretty much every country used that as their main HMG (MMG is a more appropriate modern role) with some modifications.
Now those are stupidly complex.
Or even better, take a look at the other WWI service HMGs, like the Austrian Schwarzlose M1907/12 and the French Saint-Étienne M1907T.
Yeah, I remember you asking for this, and I never thought I would see a picture of the internals, let alone vbbsmyt making a video on it!
I got to see one in person recently, interesting piece of history.
You could also show how the Fiat 1914 changed in its "modernized" version, the Model 14/35.
I would like to see what upgrades they included on the Abarth edition.
XDDDDDD
That charging handle looks as though it was designed to hurt the operator.
It would seem that the gunner was supposed to use both hands to charge the weapon, and then be smart enough to keep their hands out of the way.
@@andrewchern9032 Yeah that's with a lot of stuff back in the day it seems, which is just fine, idiots shouldn't be handling firearms PERIOD, so there doesn't have to be totally idiot-proof designs. Probably a good thing open-bolts are generally not produced/mostly illegal, cause there's a lot more dumb stuff people with lack of training can do with them.
The ammo density in that clipazine is so high.
Although it's far from being the most effective MG ever made, I think it's one of the more aesthetically pleasing
You'll burn with the Nep Cultists.
Why far? It did its work amazingly, plus it had the same shortcomings as any other WWI MG, albeit while being lighter and cheaper.
back when the machine gun was a yacht.
Большое спасибо) Великолепная работа. Я впервые узнал что у этого пулемета был режим одиночной стрельбы.
Many thanks) Great job. I first learned that this machine gun had a single shooting mode.
This was actually a surprisingly clever if slightly over complicated design.
Finally, a real clipazine
Thank you for making another one
Really Cool Magazine. Reminds me of a certain gun in BF1
Very unique design
Seems the mecanism of a gun transferred in a large scale
Simple and reliable
I was looking forward to this since I've saw one of your video for the first time, and I' not disappointed: really liked it; now I can start looking forward to the other italian machine gun: the Perino
Isn't the M1908 and M1910 pretty much just a normal Maxim but simplified and clip fed like an M1914 Hotchkiss or a Saint-Étienne M1907T?
@@CaptainGrief66 it has some similar features: like a muzzle booster and being clip fed; but it is also different because it put the brass back in the clip after firing, it had also a try for feeding more clip, and it is not the typical maxim clone (like the mg08 for reference): there's nothing like that maxim chain-spring device. Beside the fact that its a recoil-delay operated it's really difficult to find some good information about the internal mechanism and it's exact functioning, what makes it really interesting to me is the fact that in italian army trials it performed better then the vickers maxim
@@XMarkxyz
I completely forgot about the fact the the casings were reinserted in the clips, but yeah, it's really impressive that the reports showed it to be more reliable than the Maxim.
Markxyz: The Perino looks like a very interesting mechanism. As always, I would need a good set of drawings, and perferably a manual to even consider an animation. Ideally, also I need to examine an example. If you, or anyone reading these posts, can pass me links or contacts, I really would appreciate it.
@@vbbsmyt In the original manual there is not even a drawing ( www.collezionareexordinanza.it/uploads/downloads/2018-02-11_italia%20-%20perino%20mod%201908%20-%20mitragliatrice%20-%20descrizione%20e%20funzionamento.pdf ), but some good drawing and picture can be found here (from p. 30 www.academia.edu/6758227/Le_mitragliatrici_Perino_-_The_Perino_machineguns )
When it said “🔭” I felt that
Still would LOVE to see a Bofors 40mm on this channel
Yeah, I'd like to understand the clip feeding mechanism and how it's basically a full auto falling block rifle.
my great grandfather was a machine gunner in ww1, italian army. in his diaries he always say how shitty these things are. they weren't at all fitted for the battleground they were fighting in. sorry for my bad english
I just realized that this is a huge fully-automatic Glisenti Pistol with a weird-ass clipazine.
Revelli, that designed both, patented that breechlock.
It's a very good system for rifle caliber short-recoil MGs, because naturally (you can avoid it by changing the shape of the locking wedge, but there is no need) it makes so that the bolt travels slightly faster than the barrel during the short recoil, so providing primary extraction without the need of a dedicated bolt accelerator.
For the same reason is still used on the FN Fiveseven and Ruger 57 (that uses an high-pressure bottleneck cartridge that needs primay extraction).
Very interesting! Thank you!
I'm curious, where do you get the design plans to make these detailed models? Or do you actually go around and examine preserved examples?
Edit: Never mind, I saw your video on the subject, fun travels.
Amazing work man!
For Italians watching this video: "FARE IL BIDONE" pensate al povero soldato, che oltre al suo equipaggiamento, doveva portare anche il serbatoio dell'acqua, detto bidone, +/- 30 Kg. 1 K thanks for the video. Ciao
The bolt on this is massive.
And to think the wood heads adopted this over the Vickers Light M1906 in 6,5mm!!! The Vickers were allocated to Armoured car us in WWI, and some were used by the Czech Italian Legion.
Even the Colt M1914 ( a 6,5 M1895) would have been better and simpler....
The Revelli was even used on bombers, with 100 and 250 round Mags!!!.
As to the M14/35, in 8x59 RB Breda, it was the only Belt Fed Ground MG in Italian Service to 1945!!! Steel Link, non disintegrating, but breakable belt..
And that reciprocating Bolt handle, when the 8mm "cooked" off, gave it the name " Rompi- Nocche" --- Knuckle Buster.
Doc AV
I am so happy this is out.
I would also like to ask something.
Is it hard to make a video such as this? in the length of say one minute?
I'm not talking about if it is time consuming. I am asking if it is *hard* or difficult to make something like this.
Edit: Can you make a video on the Rolling Block? It shouldn't be as mechanically complicated as a heavy machine gun.
You need drawings and software to create 3-D models and which will do keyframe animation. Also software to generate an animation from a set of images. It also helps a lot to examine a real example. Then I photocopy the drawings, and using pencil and ruler plot the shape of each bit into 3-D application, put them together and hope they fit. Once the 3-D bits are in place, then it is time to animate the mechanism. Pleanty of books or tutorials that show how to do this.
Interesting. Can you consider the idea to do the Breda 37 machine gun? I think it could be great.
Great stuff , thank you.
This is really cool
What did FIAT not manufacture?
Was a good MG, for this time...and for the italians industries...
Good? In what way?
@@firepower7017 It was actually pretty good. And the action is one of the simplest of WWI HMGs (only the Hotchkiss is comparable).
@@neutronalchemist3241 But this was WW1 when countries still struggled to develop inter-changing magazines. Plus the feeding mechanism is really inefficient, compared to the German MG08 which mowed the French like a tall lawn. belt fed MGs are a bit more simple to manufacture during that era.
@@firepower7017 A fabric belt (the only available at that time) requires a feeding mechanism that first extract the round backwards and then pushes it into the chamber. That's why this feeding mechanism is simpler than any belt-fed one MG08 (that's a variation of the Maxim, like the Vickers) included. Only the tray-fed Hotckiss is comparable in this regard.
İt was a good machine gun but still produced in limited numbers compare with that of other major powers.But enough to feed 50 İtalian divisions and one front.
Good thing the Italians only fought in the dry terrain of the Alps or else this thing would be fouled with mud in no time.
Can you make a video on the Fiat mod.14/35 ?
I don't have the drawings, so sorry....
@@vbbsmyt There are some good ones in the manual, bit I don't know if they are enough detailed.
www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/Fiat%20Revelli/Fiat-Revelli%201935%20Manual%20(Italian,%201941).pdf
Ottima
..semplice.robusta nulla di meglio forse 1po ' pesante. Pero'😀 l'epoca. .
This magazine system is the weirdest i've ever seen.
That thin is going to jam for sure
IS it just me, or does a magazine fed hmg seem like a terrible idea
Fishbiene depends. Take the perino for example,that one was fed with clips of 20 rounds in a fixed hopper. A second memeber of the mg crew could constantly insert the strips basically having the gun fire until you run out of ammo, the barrel wears out, die
When you don't need to detach the spent magazine, but you can just keep on inserting new ones, it has actually several advantages over belts (that need to be changed).
It's much faster to insert five of those magazines than change a single belt, and a fabric belt need a mechanism that extract cartridges backward first to push them in the chamber, adding complexity.
I would like to know where you get the sound of the gunshots, they are outstanding :)
Ramix. I get the basic gunshots from the internet - there are several publically available sounds that can be downloaded. Isolate a single shot using audio editing software - I use Amadeus Pro. Then for the rapid shots I simply copy the single shot and paste it as many times as needed leaving the calculated interval between pastes. Hope this explains it. Rob
@@vbbsmyt thanks for the explanation rob :) good luck, you channel is really good :D
Specially awesome that you mostly make ww1 weapons, that are the mos interesting
good video！
It seems like the magazine would be too complicated for WW1 trenches, and having the bolt exposed like that would also be a problem.
Maybe a part of it was that the WW1 belligerents didn't expected the trenches when designing their stuff
There's a gun I'm looking for that looks like this but instead of a big square moving back it's a small tube
Please help
Impossible to fill in water easier?
Sooo instead of adding a belt fed simple bullet machanism they took a box magazine and shoved it on the side with a mind breaking mechanic oof i feel bad for whoever used this gun....
Please do about bira gun and coffee mill gun . Thank you very much .
How matini henry work, please :)
Why would anyone need to fire singles with a machine gun?
Easy zeroing.
Do you have plans to make a CZ 45 pistol?
No, sorry, too modern. There are still many WW1 designs I want to look at.
So this gun is delayed blowback right ?
Yes it is.
It's a breechlock design. The rotating wedge is pushed by the retreating bolt and pushes the barrel's extension, so that the bolt and the barrel must recoil togheter until the wedge rotates enough to separate them. The shape of the rotating wedge can be designed so that the bolt and the barrel recoils exactly at the same speed until they are separated, or that the bolt recoils slightly faster (so aiding primary extraction) but it's not a delayed blowback anyway.
Strange... The way it is animated, it could be called short recoil action...
God that's just impractical as all hell
Why? The action is one of the simplest of WWI (only the Hotchkiss is comparable).
@@neutronalchemist3241 maybe simple yes but real unreliable do to it's open design making it extremely easy for dirt and grime to get in the action of the gun plus that strip clip magazine thing is easily damaged do to the metal being thin and easily bendable as well as also being open allowing the rounds to get dirty and possibly jam the gun
@@spacewolves7253 What opening you are talking of? The only openings in the design are a small feeding window on top of the clip-magazine (feeding windows on belt fed MGs are bigger) and a standard ejection windows.
Fabric belts are easily damaged. If a fabric belt is damaged, you discard 200 rounds. If a clip is damaged, you discard 50 rounds.
@@neutronalchemist3241 the big ass bolt that flies back and forth during firing is a big ass problem do to it being open as all hell even during the video it shows that right off the bat that its not covered what so ever and you have to understand that there's going to be rocks and debris falling into the action because its ww1 were artillery was very common and no fabric belts worked fine even when torn just in rain the belts shrank leading to improper feeding but wasnt as bad as having a tin magazine were if it was damaged at all it was useless
@@spacewolves7253 Any Semiauto pistol, or the M1 Garand, have a far more exposed bolts.
The bolt is closed when the gun is not firing and, when it's firing, the bolt travels through an opening that have exactly the same shape and cleanse it.
The only way mud can affect this gun is by dragging it in the mud while firing.
Instead, if "there's going to be rocks and debris falling into the action (how?) because its ww1 were artillery was very common" then those debris will be easily carried into the action by a fabric belt, since nothing cleanse it before entering into the action.
In reality none fired those MGs during the artillery barrages.
Really those HMGs mechanisms (this one, that of the Vickers, that of the Hotchkiss...) were so overbuilt in respect to the work they had to do, and the eventual dirt had so many places to go instead of locking the mechanism (the receiver is mostly void space), that it could do very little. They are like the tools in a workshop of the time.
Fabric belts present the rounds less precisely. Fabric can shrink. Fabric can rot. If a fabric belt gets wet, then it provides a wet wrap around the rounds, maybe for weeks. There was humidity in WWI trenches? If a fabric belt has problems, you discard 200 rounds to replace it. If a clip has problems, you discard 50 rounds to replace it.
Mud wasn't so much of an issue with the Italian guns,as that several of them had to use oiled cartridges,which were infamous for jamming the mechanism,by attracting dust and debris. The gunners' nightmare all through the war.
Only the Breda 30 used an oiler.
The Perversion
!!!
What locks this thing? I cannot figure it out.
That was quick, thanks.
@@nosuchthingasshould4175 It's a breechlock design. The rotating wedge is pushed by the retreating bolt and pushes the barrel's extension, so that the bolt and the barrel must recoil togheter until the wedge rotates enough to separate them. The shape of the rotating wedge can be designed so that the bolt and the barrel recoils exactly at the same speed until they are separated, or that the bolt recoils slightly faster (so aiding primary extraction) but it's not a delayed blowback anyway.
@@andrewchern9032 You checked where? Even in this animation the barrel recoils. The Fiat Revelli 1914 is a short recoil barrel design as is clearly described at p.35 of the manual www.talpo.it/files/mitragliatrice-fiat-mod-14-revelli-1916.pdf
@@andrewchern9032 It was actually only advised (not required) for who charged the magazines, indipendently to when it was planned to use them, to smear a little oil on the cartridges of the superior row (p.41 of the manual).
Mind that Giovannino Agnelli (the owner of FIAT) actually invented the fluted chamber, but it was not deemed necessary to use it in the FIAT Revelli 1914.
battlefield 1 smg 08 /18
I feel bad for anyone that had to operate this on the front....
Why? It was pretty good.
Neutron Alchemist it looks like mud would wreak havoc on the mechanics
@@davidhoran7116 Clips are cleaner than belts in this respect. The only way mud can affect this gun is by dragging it in the mud while firing.
Really those HMGs mechanisms (this one, that of the Vickers, that of the Hotchkiss...) were so overbuilt in respect to the work they had to do, and the eventual dirt had so many places to go instead of locking the mechanism, that it could do very little. They are like the tools in a workshop of the time.
You know what fiat stands for don'tcha Spencer?
You're asking that seriously or what?
The video is not very clear, it's out of focus
Russian WWI PM1910 machine gun and the Fedorov Avtomat
still waiting for MG42
Why did they do this weird problematic mechanism instead of going for a belt? Were they as crazy as the French were about avoiding patent infringements or were the engineers at fiat inept in the art of common sense?
Nah. I doubt there were patent infringements they were worried about. This is during the time when everyone was theorizing what would work better as a mounted machine gun. It's easy for us today to say a belt fed is better but back then they didn't know for sure. They were still learning, and discovering what worked, worked better, and what worked best. It is expected to come across strange stuff like this during the time. It's like how the U.S. discovering in the Spanish American war clip fed bolt actions were better.
sharkfinbite good point, with that in mind though, the Breda modello 30 lmgs was just inexcusably bad.
Using a fabric belt, your machinegun must first extract the cartridge from the belt backwards, and then push it into the chamber. That inevitably added complexity. And fabric belts have storage problems too. Designs like this, or the Hotchkiss, that simply push the cartridge into the chamber from a magazine, or a metallic strip, are simpler.
@@alaskanbullworm5500 The Breda 30 eliminated all the feeding problems caused by badly manufactured/carried magazines, at the price of being slower to reload. For the rest it was not that bad. It had a very fast barrel change and both the barrel change and the reload didnt require the gunner to expose himself or move the weapon. The olier was a minus, but the oiler was just an element. Contemporary Allied reports on the use of captured weapons actually praised the behaviour of the Berda 30 in dusty conditions compared to the Bren.
Neutron Alchemist I’ll agree with your point on cloth belts, but after ww1 steel belts would come about to solve the issue of reliability and weather vulnerability. Steel belts also allow machine guns to be push fed which meant that they can be just as simple as the hotchkiss. Besides the machine gun above(fiat 1914) is also push fed, and has a relatively simple locking system, but it’s feeding mechanism decompensated for that by being over complicated and unreliable, they would have been better off copying the hotchkiss. The other machine gun, the Breda 30, is still a horrible machine gun. That obviously doesn’t mean that it was completely useless, but compared to contemporary guns, it was unnecessarily complicated because the Italians wanted to supposedly save metal by fixing the magazine, that is inconvenient already, and to make matters worse, it necessitated the use of lubricant to extract cartridges, instead of properly designing a good recoil, gas, or even a more efficient blowback system(fluted barrel perhaps). This oil attracted dust and other debris that would actually make its use in the desert a bigger hassle than the Bren, which was completely closed off from the elements once the magazine is in, and is also a far superior gun in terms of accuracy, barrel change(don’t have to re-zero the sights every time you change), and reliability. The idea that the Breda is a superior gun to the Bren is laughable. The Italians would have been better off copying the zb26 like the Japanese did.
Because that's somehow easier and cheaper than just using belted ammo
Cloth belts tended to jam guns once they got wet or dirty with mud, metallic clips were more dependable, the italian version most of all.
This thing horrifies me on a fundamental level.
Lol why?
I think I'd rather have a Schwarzlose.
Good luck with the oiler and mud then.
c96 machine gun be like
that's why you should never buy a FIAT car
And why? This thing is more than reliable.
@@CaptainGrief66
it's a funny about overcomplicating things ffs
@@splat003
It's literally the least complex MMG of WWI, it's even simpler than some LMGs.
@@CaptainGrief66
nevermind...humor is not for everyone, i suggest you keep it at the fart jokes level of it
@@splat003
_Don't know about you but I can't hear voice tones from letters_
Ravolli
raviollli raviolli
What's in the pocketoli?
Unreliablli overengineerolli
Only one "L" please, hamburger eater.
Fiat invented guns
..... Well. I hope they worked better than there cars
What a shitty machine-gun, its like every Italian weapon that wasn't made by beretta
It was pretty good actually.
Breda 37, Breda 38, Breda 20/65, Scotti 20/70...
What a hell is this gun ive never seen anything like that
It's an Italian heavy maching gun from WWI. I doubt you'd come across it unless you were deloberately looking for WWI machine guns.