Rocket jump for Heavy (TF2 style) Necromancer specialization for Medium (revive and heal team, but after reviving there is a cooldown before you can heal) Stim for Light ( health and speed boost ) or something like vanishing boom but for all team members in the area it shortens their specialization cooldown by 50% for 30 seconds.
For game balancing it would be sick to see custom game modes where users can play around with the damage values and other numbers and save / share them with the community to test and vote. Or just for extra chaos.
just casually chatting over the most insane clips. 49:33 intentionally two tapping with the tracking dart to finish someone off. you're such a fun player to watch, love the creativity.
haha yeaaa i had a bunch of clips that I didn't know where to put them so I put them over some yapping lol, didn't expect many people to actually watch the gameplay
40:27, I’m sorry Strafez, but I have to disagree with you on the No mines on heavy part. I see nothing wrong with having mines on heavy, in fact it’s quite the opposite. Heavy’s main purpose is to be a defensive anchor to the teams objective, and mines are one of those things that complement that idea of Heavy. I personally think mines are in a completely fine state (other than glitch) and do not need to be looked at. If you’re walking into mines, you need to take stuff slower and learn how to push something properly.
@@thedarkflowkiller i used to release item behind the glass (item isnt solid when in hand) quick melee and then pick up the item. it took me until like a month ago to accidently mess up my timing and release item into the glass causing it to break to figure out there is a more efficient way of doing this
Appoh now that I know you're a graphic designer, I can't unhear the client voice you use LOL. I always wondered why your approach to videos and commentary were always so professional and but now I know why your content and analyses are so focused and grounded. Great conversations around balance and player experience, definitely helped me see things bigger picture. Great video once again. Cheers!
0:31:12 Don't nerf my mines even further, they aren't left in a random spot, they are left at the top of stairs or just inside a doorway because I know you will walk there without looking. There are two because you have to use both of them for them to matter because they killed its spread. I used to be able to get two players at once. They already nerfed them so that you can't use them to make holes in most floors anymore. They used to be a great utility pick because you could use them to go through walls and floors to create unpredictable angles. 1:00:23 It would be cool if we could parry the winch with quick melee if we see it coming.
nerfing the double stack tactic sounds completely fair though, means as a mine user you have to capitalize on the enemy running though it or bait them when they are low. an instant kill like that is frustrating for newer players who dont fully understand the game. people want to feel like the enemy who killed them put effort in to succeed.
@@Appoh Nerfing the double stack would just kill the usefulness of mines. Its only an instant kill once, after that you know its in play and that you should be careful. You also see the mine icon in the kill feed. New players are inexperienced, not stupid. Getting good with mines means learning that putting them on top of the cashout point is (Usually) a waste and that putting them in places where players are likely to run is much more effective. Nerfing them would just be punishing the players that figured it out. If they can't kill people you have to change your play style so you are nearby so you can finish off players who stepped on them. They would completely lose their ability to cause a delay while you move the cash box and would severely limit your ambush potential when intercepting a team in possession of the cash box. A good middle ground might be to let you see what your opponents are bringing before the match starts the same way you can see what your team mates are bringing. This might also mitigate player frustrations with their play-style being countered. Like if you could see that the enemy teams are bringing snipers you could decide not to take a sword for example. A change I would love to see is one where you can change your weapons and gadgets at any time while you are dead and not just when you are ready to respawn, this could also push new players towards experimenting with different equipment combinations sooner. Mines are currently a good option for solo players because it gives you a chance turn a 3-vs-1 into a 2-vs-1, the game is already severely stacked in favour of 3-stacks, nerfing mines would disproportionally hurt solo players. The only nerfs I can think of that doesn't just outright ruin the viability of explosive mines would be if you only get one mine but it does double damage so that enemies are less likely to step on it and so that you can't cover as large an activation area at once. Alternatively you could decrease their damage but increase their spread so that you can get multiple players reliably at once again. That might make babysitting the mines worth it. Just decreasing their damage would drain the game of strategic options. To me this as the worst possible outcome a change could have.
@@tropictiger2387 i mean you have the potential of over 250 dmg with 2 mines, you can 100% get use out of them if you play correctly, random free kills is not very healthy. We should really be encouraging more players to join the game and have a good experience, stuff like this is not a fun experience. We've had stuff like nukes and rpg ruin the experience being an explosive 1 shot that has little counter play, mines are basically there, especially during all the chaos in a fight, we need more legibility, stuff like indicators over frag grenades, more obvious mines, and less random 1 shot mechanics so people feel they have a chance. I understand you like them but you have to fight for what is healthy for the game, same reason I am ok with stun gun nerfs even though I like and use stun gun. I want what is best for the game to survive and thrive as new players come and go we need to make sure their experience is the best it can be
in terms of utility for heavys: i would love to see a change to the ks 23 so that it would break down a wall with 2 shots instead of 3 and makes a bigger hole (so it is guaranteed that you fit into it). No nerf or buff with the damage itself just to use it more for breaching without spending so much time and ammunition. Rocket Jump as a concept would also be a interesting idea like you said. To the winch: i think it should slow down just a little bit to break the chain and should make it depending on the ankle you winched somebody. Like if you winch him from behind it should be close to impossible to turn around and shoot the chain but if you do it from the front you should be able to shoot the heavy or the chainitself to break free. So it would get more of a skill ceiling
Thanks for this, I appreciate you and the fact your still promoting/ talking/ discussing the finals. I’ve been playing since OB and got about 1200 hours into the game. Placed myself into the top 40 now of the finals leaderboard and I still can’t get enough of this game! I can’t wait to see what they’re gonna do with all the feedback and there own ideas for S4. Thanks
Personally as someone who plays wwaaayy too many games and whos just creeping up on 100 hours in finals build variety really is important even if u dont like playing a certain way play it really does give you perspective I play with a lot of people of a whole bunch of skill levels who complain about vastly diffrent things but the one trait that ties those complaints together is most of the time theyve never played with that option or playstyle no shade against them but your point of jumping around finding your nieche is sooo important like even if you dont think you like something playing as it really makes u understand how to counter it.
Agreed on the Healing beam. Another way to nerf it is to provide counterplay: impact glitch nades or even anti heal debuff (via Gadget or nade) like ow2.
01:07:51 For Season 4, I'd like to see the promotion of more playstyles. This is super broad, but it speaks to a lot of the stuff you two have talked about. Medium weapons have been reduced to boring and slightly less boring, Heavy weapons have been reduced to boring but good and boring but bad. And Light is the prime example of variety here, where you can choose almost anything and play with it. Dagger, Sword, the Uzi, XP54, SH1900, all have fun scenarios where they are applicable. Heavy and medium don't meet this standard with their primaries. Gadgets is the same story in different colors, but that's why I would say what I'd like to see is so broad XD Pretty much just agree with the video. Stuff needs unscrewed, I want my game back XD
41:28 I miss playing Sonar on medium. I used to love tossing Sonars into building windows as Heavy and Light breached the building. It was like being tech role, running the drone, sending scans from the satellite to your team XD It was support! And I love support roles. Idk what I would suggest as far as changes though. Sonar seems to pair pretty well with Light, and Heavy having Sensor makes sense because of C4 strategies and "fortification." Tracking dart though, I've never seen that being useful on anything other than sniper. Maybe it needs a rework or something, who knows.
Literally just got done tbagging balise. On his stream my name is H_NGM_N lmao. If you don't know he's number 2 in the finals and he's toxic so returned the favor
I also out FraG him in a tournament we went heads up on Finale round -stole the first cashout but we lost - mind you I’m with a buddy an a Random - he was stacked - I go by PSYCHOMAD TV 😎
6:08 This is how you know that these people suggesting things just don't have a good feel for what they're talking about. It brings to mind my cousin that I play with. He constantly has suggestions for how this should work and how this needs to be buffed or nerfed and, I'll be honest, he's better than me at the game, but has no idea what he's talking about as far as balancing goes. He just talks, and his limited-to-light perspective doesn't help his knowledge of the game as a whole. When you consider suggestions from (even really high skill) players, you have to remember that they're just players. A well rounded perspective is lost on someone according to their own biases, which is why I think balancing is a collaborative effort. Players talk, devs listen, changes fall somewhere between hard numbers and player sentiment.
Lol light players have the biggest mouth 😅 They're always so toxic yet can't carry their weight. Running off and getting tons of kills doesn't win games. I mostly play heavy and get bashed cuz my aim isn't great and I use off meta loadouts.
@@user-ne9sd4ow1o Getting emoted on after dying while using off-meta or semi-throwing loadouts is so annoying. Like yeah, you're the basic beach and I'm the one with personality. There's a reason you're still using the beam bye-bye emote 🙄
I agree with most of your points, but i dont like seeing any damage nerfs. i want to see changes for sure. i definitely agree that the glitch trap is insanely strong i also wouldnt care if stun gun was removed the rpg is such a weird subject to me because as a light main i hate it i think its incredibly cheesy but it is an rpg it should do alot of damage, so i really dont know what id do to it, ive gotten into the habbit of trying to bait out an rpg but this doesnt always work and the glitch grenades should be a good counter but with an effect of 5secs its really hard to capitalize every time Id like to see buffs to all the classes make counters more of an option rather then making one particularly strong item or weapon worse I definitely hate the triple model medium meta right now and makes world tour hell having to kill a team technically multiple times just to secure the objective is super frustrating
@@DeLordV everyone will then run defib spec and stims, which is exactly what is happening with heal beam and defib gadget. you basically made heal beam into a gadget and it can only be used on your self so minus team work and plus selfish playstyle. every single medium now runs stim because it is the best gadget, youd be throwing if you dont pick it. what changed and how is it better?
@@clintshidwood4511 Stim shot can be used on anyone. Difference is someone can't be continuously healed while they're taking damage which is the main frustration for me currently.
The stun gun became obsolete in higher elo solely due to the fact it doesnt stop a heavy from shoving a rocket down your throat or a medium from using defibs.
at least make a sound whenever they hit the ground or walls because they're so quiet, actually I don't even know if they have a sound lol only when they explode they make a sound but it's already too late yo ass is dead 😂
Played season 1, got busy playing Elden Ring during season 2, finally came back for season 3 and am loving it. I can’t stand Terminal Attack, but Quick Cash/World Tour feel great right now. Even if the population stays at 15k for the next couple of years, I really hope this game keeps going. Looking forward to season 4!
Appoh one thing I wanted to mention about the medium turret is that I find a lot of people use it the same way and it is useless at higher elos. However, I find so much value in it by being essentially a medium sonar grenade on flanks and off angles. It is also amazing with the R.357 because one bullet from it and landing headshots means you break through a lot of breakpoints with the magnum
Strafes is responsible for 2 of my loses 😢 almost to em 1 though… XD Edit: after finishing the video I’d like to just say some things. I pretty much agree with a lot of stuff you guys are saying, especially about how they’ve been nerfing medium and heavy (mostly heavy though) to the point where their weapon and gadget pool in terms of viability is so small that we’re pretty much seeing the same loadouts every game. For example, Heavy this season doesn’t really have any ranged weapons or gadgets that are great other than RPG so if you’re more than 5 meters away, you can just expect to catch an RPG to the face because that’s literally the best course of action for a heavy at that point most of the time. I don’t want to make this too long so I’ll just separate my thoughts about the classes like you guys did: Lights - I honestly think lights are probably the most balanced right now. They’re the most fun to play and they have the best build variety. Unfortunately because of how this game is played, the entire class’s viability is heavily determined by the strength of the other two classes, but right now I think they’re in a good spot. I dunno why the 93r can’t catch a buff though ffs lol. Medium - I definitely agree that the defib and heal beam are far too strong. It would be nice if one day we could find a strong build that doesn’t rely on defib at least. In my opinion, medium also needs a crowd control gadget or specialisation. I think some sort of concussion grenade that slows enemies or a specialisation that shoots out a frequency that slows movement in a small radius would be cool. This is mostly just because medium has 2 useless melee weapons as they don’t have any chase potential unless you happen to use demat inside a building. I think a concussion grenade would be the logical option, but I think if they made a slowing specialisation for medium, you’d see a lot less people using heal beam which would be good. I also think the fcar might need to go back to a better recoil pattern and the models might need its range reduced. (As a medium main, I genuinely hate this shotgun meta that we’re going through right now) Heavy - imo heavy is the weakest class right now because it just keeps getting hit with nerfs. I really like the idea of the rpg’s damage being halved, but it also gets the utility of pushing people around. But I also think the Lewis gun’s recoil needs to be way better and the m60 needs to either do more damage or have way better recoil as well. Truth be told, I also don’t know why we can’t just ADS with the KS either. I think it would help that weapon a lot. For the winch, I don’t hate your guy’s suggestion that the pull should be slower, but you can break the chain. But I think honestly if you just gave it a longer cooldown - even if it misses - it would feel a lot better. Or, I also like the idea of putting the winch as a secondary fire for the spear XD that would be cool too. But I dunno, for me right now the heavy class feels bad to play as and bad to play against, and they definitely need some changes.
I am a casual, but I think if you had the RPG do 75 damage pershot and give them two rockets, you give the RPG a more destructive role and give it the ability to kill a light with purely the rockets, but the skill needed increases and allows the light to react to a heavy getting a drop on the light.
I really only enjoy playing light in this game because of the high movement skill cap. The mines are absolutely tragic. There are tons of cheesy ways to die in this game, but the cake has to be falling through a floor onto a mine and dying. Dashing over a ledge with a mine just out of sight or trying to steal against 2 squads and 6 mines are on the ground. A heavy once winched me over a mine, that was the only time i felt that some brain activity went into my demise. Great discussion, I just started playing on season 3, I hate to think what it was like before this lol.
52:04 For some reason I never considered giving the RPG a second charge alongside a nerf lol. I always thought 'Oh but if they nerf it it'll be useless and it'll never get picked.' But if you were to just break up its damage output between two charges, you wouldn't have the problems of RPG now, and it would still serve a lot of purpose for builds that need that quick finishing damage. I also like the idea of it pushing players from its center of impact lol. That sounds fun XD
as someone who does not play ranked and wouldnt consider myself "high level" but i completely agree with all these points. Have spent a decent amount of time in the finals discord lately and the braindead takes ive seen on there is incredible and feel completely out of touch. some of these guys have 1k+ hours and just have the worst opinions on balance. Thank you for such a good discussion :))))
Strafez is a real one, love the insights on the game. I gotta say though I think more than anything he's 💯 right that light sniper really is the best option for Power shift, truly enlightened
4:00 I agree with the take of: "lets listen to people who actually play the game." The game is currently at 15.8K players on Steam, down from 38.6K in June, 48.5K in March, and 242.6K in last December. The game is also trending downwards at the moment. I don't think Embark will ever be able to recover even half the numbers they had a launch. I believe this happened because of their balancing at the very start. A lot of the dumb fun was nerfed away, IE the Shotgun/invis/stungun combo, the heavy C4 nuke, and the recon sens. I think this hit the lights the most, because for the most part, the heavies and meds still had great team play utility. The light, on the other hand, is the odd one out. They feel dissonant with the core game design. It's a team game and they're the ones who are supposed to flank around, make deposits, and assassinate. The Shotgun/invis/stungun combo was the crutch holding their class up. I bailed from the game after they kept nerfing lights, but I heard that they're good now.
nukes HAD to go. stun gun HAD to be nerfed, it was like 10 second stun originally which is INSANE. sawed off 2 shot a heavy HAD to be nerfed. it sucks that the player count drop so much but damn, if these nerfs made them leave then those people were only there to exploit broken "crutches" before their obvious and inevitable nerf.
@@jax5683 fun to exploit, sure. fun to play against, not even close. getting hit with a 10 second stun to me meant i was free to whip out my phone and scroll some memes waiting to respawn, not even going to bother attempting to do pathetic chip damage with hip fire. or how was a nuke that instantly kills 2+ people with one click fun to play against? how is it fun to play a tank class and get deleted in 2 clicks, faster than you can even figure out what is happening. comp or casual, those things should not have been in the game to begin with.
What if there was some kind of quick minigame in the vein of lockpicking or hitting a button at the right time or something with winch claw. If you are grabbed you have a little window to hit spacebar at the right time or turn a dial to the right angle to cut the chain. It could add some counterplay
Yeeessss! We NEED easier ways to group back up with people you meet ingame. Three stacking takes me from a negative or flat k/d to a 2+ k/d with people on comms. Please please please push this with the devs. We NEED it! Also; thank you for this episode! I’m listening while painting boxes at work😂. I’m in love with the Finals, and have been since beta. Can’t get enough of this stuff
31:12 Nah, explosive mines are in a good place. They take up a gadget slot, require setup beforehand, can easily be countered by more mindful movement, and only one shot when stacked -and that's IF the light doesn't just dash over them. I might could see a slight damage nerf to make one-shotting mediums (when stacked) no longer an option, but there's no way I would agree that stacking as a strat needs to go. We already have an arming timer that makes using them for getaways problematic, and the utility of a static defense is already relatively low compared to frags for example. I don't wanna be out here limiting more playstyles. One shot doesn't always equal bad. 40:44 Exactly my point. The only instances where you fail to mines are when you're not paying attention. This is the balance of the gadget, you have to be mindful of where you step to counter them. They. are. mines. lol.
i just feel like to make the experience enjoyable for everyone they are in an unhyealthy state especially for new players, dying instantly is never fun when the enemy player didnt put in the effort to earn it
@@Appoh Yeah, but the dichotomy between instant kill and earning it and instant kill without earning it is significant, and you claim mines are always unearned kills. There are two scenarios where mines kill. One scenario involves placing mines in very visible places and having negligent players walk over them. Placing them visible is an area control strat, and the only reason players are dying to them is because of negligence. It's like using dash and accidentally dashing off the stage/course to your death. Sure, the kill with the mine was unearned, but now we're shifting the blame from the player who walked over something obvious to the player who placed something obvious. If a player walks right up to the muzzle of my shotgun, that's his fault, right? Same thing with visible mines. The other scenario where mines kill is when they're placed strategically. Above those vents where you have to crouch or in bushes like mentioned, for example. Another strat I personally like to use is to partially block an entrance with goo and leave mines just around the corner of the goo where once enemies make entry, they go off. These placements require intention and preparation, and you can only choose one placement at any given time anyway, unless you're running gas/explosive at the same time. Then it goes up to two 😵💫😂 This is a serious deviation from the visible placement, where kills occur as a result of your skillful placement of the mines. It's not skill in the way of gunplay, but it's skill in the way of developed defense strategy. I argue it's an earned kill 💁♂️ And if we're talking about the experience of new players, sure, it's another thing you have to learn about this game. But to say that they're unhealthy is a pretty big claim. There are far more unique aspects of this game that claim the "difficult for new players to understand" title, as opposed to land mines lol. New players would pick up on the 'watch where you step' skill pretty quickly, I would hope 🤷♂️ Aside from that, I can't really disagree with you. Yeah, dying to defenses is difficult at first. I hope I present a reasonable argument for my point, because I really just don't agree that land mines need tweaked. The lack of gadgets with genuine utility on medium is already something you addressed in the video, so I fail to see how further reducing the utility of medium's gadgets (the ones that are far from overpowered to begin with) serves this end 😭😭 I just hard disagree 🤷♂️
@@Appoh i despise mines. before finals, i was maining bfv and the trip mines were so lame especially when you have 16-32 players spamming them EVERYWHERE forcing you to play like it's r6. who has fun in an arcade fast pace fps where you also have to play hidden objects detective FB mini game???
I haven't watched the whole video because it's very long so I don't know if this was adressed. Should the finals only have one super balanced gamemode instead of the various gamemodes they implemented? I feel like the various gamemodes is holding the game back for some reason.
I get what you're saying about the SA12 and RPG, but I think that along with some of the other nerfs you guys proposed, while they would result in better balance, would have to be done at a much later date than Season 4's start. Specifically because the bulk of players are already mad about nerfs, some of them even outright leaving the game explicitly stating said nerfs were the reason why, and doing stuff like just dropping the RPG's damage to 100, making the Defib a specialization, or nerfing the heal beam, would IMMENSELY piss off the remaining player base. I like what you proposed with the RPG, and Strafez "necromancer" idea (revive by spending a ton of heal beam) though, and if instead of nerfs, they did sidegrade type reworks to things, such as reducing the RPG's damage to 75 but then adding a pushback that'll knock enemies away and let you rocket jump, then players would receive the nerfs and reworks far more positively. I definitely think they need to stop primarily listening to casual/lower level players, too. It's important to listen to them since they're the bulk of the players, and in turn buying mtxs, but the aggressive nerfing they clamored for is how we even got in this position in the first place. Because speaking from experience, me and my two friends who regularly play, we've gone from dreading LLL teams to seeing that and going "oh this is a free match, then" and actually winning like 80% of our matches when the other teams are majority Lights, and I think the bulk of the clamoring for nerfs comes from people stuck in the former mindset. We didn't even need to watch any specific tutorials, we just frequently share our replays and noticed how often a Light would pick an individual off, so now we all stay together. In turn, any Light that comes up to us we all just turn around, kill him, and resume what we were doing, and I'm doubtful the lower skill players are actually examining their own gameplay and working as a team that extent.
I'm a simple man I see Battlefield devs so I say base the classes and the guns and the equipment off of Battlefield. Even if they had a gun in Battlefield that was better than the other guns, all the other guns were still fun and usable unlike right now where we only have two weapons that are usable right now (model & XP) and the other ones are unusable. And for the medic class, instead of a healing beam make it a throwable medkit on the floor to get passive health while standing next to it. I would go on with more ideas but the devs already have the recipe because they made the Battlefield games so all they have to do is just cook and not be afraid to ruffle some feathers because the Final Community is not the best specimens in the world lol.
If you figure a World tour win is 30 minutes (10 minutes each for first two rounds, average 10 minutes more for the third) then getting 300 Tournament wins is (300*30)/60. That's 150 hours of playtime where you do not ever lose.
Winch claw feels like the panzer on origins pulls you and you’re about to lose the juggernog you tried so hard to get because it’s going to kill you and you can’t escape because there’s no red light to shoot
Was a heavy main up until the start of season and I've switched to a model medium, made it to emerald 1 and I've still been playing world tour since. 1. Agree with XP-54 nerf, almost all high elo lights use it's got more range than the AK. 2. Indecisive about model nerf. I'm biased since I main it but hear me out. The model trades the consistency and range of the AK for better survivability and burst damage. Feels awful against teams that are smart enough to play around its strengths. Also feels awful to miss shots at point blank but that might just be me. Its a rewarding weapon in the right situations but isn't as good of a general weapon as the AK. If it does end up getting nerfed bad enough I'll go back to the AK or maybe main the revolver. 3. Agree with the medium support nerf, medium shouldn't be able to insta res and heal at the same time. I can hit my shots but its kinda lame gameplay if I end up being a pocket healer, especially in in a double heavy team. It's also not thought provoking gameplay if in a 2v3, 90% of the time the right play is to defib and quickly reset instead of finishing the fight or fleeing for coin respawns. I hope Embark can come up with some sort of viable specialization for medium, demat and turret are just not as powerful as 50 hp/sec for any team mate. 4. Agreed with glitch mines needing a rework. I don't main them but they're an easy counter to defibs and annoying to play against. It's especially more punishing for lights and heavys which rely on their specialziations / gadgets for survivability. 5. Agreed with potential jump pad nerf but I really don't know how it should be addressed. Almost every medium uses it, it's applicable to traversing the map, aggression, and fleeing. Double heavy teams are very powerful if they coordinate pushes with the jump pad. Often combining rpg and a slam. In high elo games it's a little annoying that many fights are focused on jump pad pushes. 6. Agreed with the grenade indicator. It's a slight nerf to them. Most of the time grenades are impactful when thrown in the middle of a fight where players are too focused to to notice a little ball wipe their team. 7. Agreed with rpg nerf. Too easy to use and too rewarding. A heavy is throwing if they dont have it. One part people often don't mention is the usefulness of instant destruction in a fight. If you rpg an enemy, not only are the half health or less, they're also separated from their team because they fall down from the explosion. It's an extremely easy pick.
Mines are fine the way they are. Sure you can make them louder if you want so people can be more aware of it however that is the point of setting traps. (There wouldn't be a point if people are going to know where they are) For grenade you can make an indicator but to me it would be more easier to dodge them. I don't think an indicator is necessary
I hope season 4 brings more traps and gadjets! Like a slippery effect and more unique mechanics! Imagine getting kills from players slipping off the map 😂
Make the defib a specialization I think. You have to choose one or the other. I think a grenade that heals like 100 health would also be a cool gadget for medium.
46:53 bro fr cooked me 😥, on the topic of SA though. I think the only real solution is to completely rework the gun so it dosnt have the animation at 4 bullets and dramatically increase the time between shots. The issue will always be its burst dps. The gun just does not make sense on a class designed for sustained dmg. Idk maybe its just me.
Hello :) New player here with 19.2 hours, i absolutely love the game, there is one extremely major thing that is ruining the game for me, thats Leaving and AFK'ing players. Now i dont know if this problem is more present because im new and get matched with new players too or what ever reason. but WITHOUT over exagerating, i have had 1-2 leavers EVERY SINGLE MATCH in my 19h..... if its not my team, then its the enemy team, the worst case of leavers i had till now was 3v3v1v0. 5 leavers in 1 match..... they need to increase the penalty, either u have no chance to win or you just faceroll the team with a missing player.... and they have to use their token if they are afk...... I REALLY HOPE that this problem gets less when i level and rank up more, but i would understand if new players would just quit the game at that point.... i was close to it too even tho i like the game.
Can we @ Embark with this video. This is a very good example of rational and logic perspective about balancing this game. As a heavy main I want to have fun. The heavy meta is strong… but not fun.
I currently play mostly Light, my rank: Emerald 2. Some suggestions: 1. Raise HP for all players to increase time-to-kill (TTK) and reduce the effectiveness of burst damage. Personally i dont see the balance of weapons as others do. Most weapons are in a good place right now, the only issue is the burst, thats why nukes were removed. 2. Show cooldowns as numbers instead of a decreasing bar (toggable). 3. Advanced Scoreboard: Add the ability to see each player's gadget and specialization with TAB+R. 4. Introduce a Zipline for the Heavy class, this could limit their gadget options and help reducing their reliance on teammates. Which is useful for solo players or mid-high elo but not so much for top players and 3-man parties. 5. Event Suggestion - "Lights Out": Where all lights in the map are gone, and players rely on body-generated light. Also, everyone can use Thermal Vision at will. 6. Defibrillator Adjustment: Reduce charge-up time from 0.8 seconds to 0.6 seconds QoL. Since 2.0.0 this gadget feels non-responsive and less accurate because of this change. 7. Introduce Healing Darts as a specialization for the Medium class. (I can really expand on this). 8. Show current health as a small number near the crosshair. 9. Make the defibrillator a passive for all Medium players but you only get to use it once per wipe on each teammate. 10. Rework the turret into a healing turret. 11. Increase APS efficiency or reduce its CD to minimize RPG annoyances. 12. Reporting System: Add an option to report griefers. 13. Solo Queue Protection: Avoid placing solo players against multiple 3-man parties. 14. Enable a whisper function for communication with added friends. 15. Wall Mechanics Update: Enemies can no longer pass-through dematerialized walls without destroying them first. 16. Include an infographic for real-time ping and FPS. 17. Increase Mesh Shield health as before (1,250) but introduce a cooldown based on remaining shield strength, basically you no longer get to spam activate-deactivate your shield. This with the next suggestion will tone down the specialization. 18. No Duplicate Specializations: One of the primary reasons for the numerous nerfs to the Medium and Heavy classes is the lack of restrictions on duplicated specializations. This issue leads to certain specializations becoming overpowered when stacked, forcing developers to nerf them. As a result, these specializations feel either useless or unsatisfying to play when not stacked and only somewhat balanced when they are. To fix the inconveniences of this suggestion: Allow players to select multiple preferred specializations and classes before queuing and display estimated wait times. Most importantly, this change should be accompanied by reverting the nerfs imposed on gadgets and specializations due to the double or triple meta that emerged 19. Map Filters 20. Dedicated Grenade Slot: Introduce a specific loadout slot for grenades to enhance customization and usage. 21. Flashbang Adjustment: Now detonate on contact and prevent them from affecting teammates and yourself. 22. Gas and Smoke Grenade Update: Increase density and spread, adding effects like reduced movement speed or blurred vision, map-placed canisters don’t get these effects. 23. Thermal Bore feels weak, give it more charges, this game best feature is the Map Destruction. 24. Let me choose which skin I want, for ex. in Emerald, I don’t want the Lewis but I absolutely need the AK. 25. Jumpad should have 2 modes: Vertical (current), Horizontal (as the jumpads in Skyway Stadium), right click to switch between modes. Great Video!! This is the only way to get meaningful feedback. I dont have enough voice for these suggestion reach someone at Embark, but at least I can brainstorm here.
Idea for a counter to mines, turrets, and glitch traps. A sonar grenade equivalent, but only for gadgets? Either a grenade, or a cone like IQ from Siege. It would let you support your team with intel. And for mobility for M and/or H, some kind of concussion grenade that boops people? you can grenade jump yourself and teammates (to prevent griefing, maybe it only works if you're in the air or crouching prevents it?), boop people off objectives, bounce away projectiles and barrels? A semi rifle on medium that focuses on environmental damage and a little range would be cool. I would honestly swap the revolver and LH1. I remember how Valve balanced stuff based on how annoying something was to play against, not how powerful they were. Spy, Pyro and Demoknight in TF2 all got nerfs even though they were barely even competitively viable. Which I'm sure we all know is why most of the player base hates light. On the other side of that, people get TOO comfortable with a meta being the best/most consistent, and when it's addressed they complain, even if there are other options. It's usually pros or high level players that complain, but I get it, it sucks to spend a bunch of time learning something to have it stripped away. In Siege, when something had a huge win percentage, and it got nerfed, people complained. Which is why some things are still dominant. In addition to that, having youtubers and streamers popularize meta opinions also doesn't help. Influencers don't explore enough (nothing can be done about this, I know). The 1887 not being changed and suddenly becoming popular is an example of it. Same happened in Counter Strike, when someone "discovered" that the Sig that hadn't been changed in years was good and suddenly everyone was using it and complaining that it was overpowered. You also can't always "bring things up to that level" because of how the game is designed, especially when balancing around TTK, which in is made more complicated in a team game. I also think it's hard to balance around what the audience thinks because brains work in specific ways. A majority of people like getting kills, they like seeing that there's a "best" gun. And so support and intel items get left behind a lot, not because they're bad or not fun, but because people don't want to play like that. Even if all the weapons were really well balanced and everything was viable, people would still gravitate towards the one that barely edges out the others, and others would complain that it's OP because they keep getting killed by it. I know no one will read this, but I needed to get it out of my head or I'd explode.
Love you Appoh but when did I sign up for a lecture on how to balance the game 😂 I feel like this video could have been split into two separate ones. Oh btw I am loving these interviews they are amazing but I wish the interview is focused on the guest more with rapid fire questions and answers. I equally love to hear your own opinion and value it a lot but I would love to hear your analysis separately if it is going to be a long one potentially derailing the interview.. Anyways, much love bro keep doing what you are doing ❤
Well these are kinda like podcasts? it's jsut a little test I've been doing where I get guests to do a pocast with me about a topic and see how it goes. It's a lot of trial and error, we yapped longer than expected i had to cut out like 15+ mins of this too lol
Ah I see. Makes more sense if it is intended to be a podcast. I guess I just had the wrong expectation. It was a very enjoyable discussion nevertheless.
I think the thing i am most frustrated with in this game is its want to be played in the heavy medium light format. For example needing a heavy for sheilds in certain situations, meduim to provide support and movement for the team, and light to be the High Dps and fragger. But the way things are balanced right now makes it so picking more than one of either Medium or heavy is by far the most favorable setup. They need to change the classes so that no one class is dominant in numbers. I am really in favor of role locking, since up to this point i havent seen anything else work. There shouldnt be triple medium teams, double heavy medium, or double medium heavy. Its boring and clearly not what the development team was intending
I don’t agree with nerfing the explosive mines. They’re meant to punish oblivious/tunnel vision style players. If they nerf it, it will become far less valuable compared to gas, glitch, and pyro mines.
I havent finished the video yet so this may get mentioned but i doubt it. I think in World Tour giving an option once per round to either change a utility or a weapon would be a massive help. There are many rounds where i have lost purely to not being able to swap out a gadget to counter double heavy or double medium. I think having a ONCE per round option to change a part of your load out is fair and wouldnt give you the overwatch scenario of constantly swapping to counter the other team/s. Also give light 25 more hp!
Heavy needs more mobility option imo medium needs more defense options for melee on the class to be more viable and light is perfect i just wish they made hook into a gadget instead of a specialization i would like a hyper drive super fast movement buff specialization oh and we need more maps
Kid vicious was on and he was like a top 10. Didn’t know he was a streamer until my team told me. I trashed on him and his 2 light stacks trying to roll up on us. Ultimately, they got knocked out by us bc we focused them and stole majority of cashouts first round. -LordOfTheFlies
Give medium tracking dart, nerf heal beam, get rid of defib/ make RPG do less damage but more destruction. Make spear's right click a javelin throw. Get rid of glitch trap. Give heavy a jetpack.
Should make glitch trap only one stack tbh, that’s a slight buff to data reshaper as it’s limited charges can actually feel useful, maybe buff data reshaper to have 3 charges or a quicker cooldown?
The complaining entitlement is real, but also I can empathize with it. If you've invested enough time and money into a game you feel like you've earned the right to be heard, and that the developers should be listening to players like you because you're effectively part of the community that's keeping the game afloat. It's easy to say "people on Reddit complain about everything and are too entitled" but if someone cares about your game enough to be active in an online community and write about the aspects they don't like then it feels really shortsighted to just dismiss them completely. Embark need to learn this fast, because otherwise they're going to frustrate and ultimately lose a lot of fans. And simply put they don't have enough players that they can afford to be this complacent.
exactly, this is why i was mentioning early on that gamers are good at finding problems, not solutions. Even having a balance dev i know talk on tyhe subject for the video seems to agree with this
As a solo player. I fear i may not make it to season 4. I love this game but i literally dont play much anymore. Zero reasons to do so. Also the devs fumbled extremely hard nerding everything to the floor,instead of buffing the weaker parts of the game. Ive never seen a fps come back from doing this. EVER
the divide exists cause of a skill gap, light class is a glass cannon and is good in the hands of people with movement, game sense and aim, however as the skill increases then light class falls off because everyone has all the core skills at a high level but you have a tiny amount of health in comparison. Its not for casuals play medium. Heavy is fine its just all positioning for and against of closing the gap, the only thing that I think could be nerfed on heavy is the RPG because when you play Light into Heavies with RPGs you don't stand a chance.
1:00:05 YES! A speed nerf to winching would be so nice! You get teleported by it right now, and it feels horrible. I dont use it cuz it feels cheesy and sucks to play against
Adding new game modes with the same integrity as the Finals is good like Bank it, but adding entirely new games into the finals like terminal attack and power shift will always keep the game unbalanced these quote on quote new modes are literally different games put in to the finals, they are not the Finals. The devs are putting too much on their plates. How could you balance three games in one???. That just baffles me.
Honestly, from how it sounds from the interview with the dev, it doesn't actually sound like he's going for entirely competitive balances and what's 'fun' (user experience). Pros just happen to be the players who always have the most amount of hours and experience with the game (best QA testers) The big disparity between 'noobs' and pro's, and how they think the game should change, is definitely because this game is balanced around specialising in what you like. Kinda like how fighting game players can't get much better results if they use a totally different character, even if it is higher tier. It's definitely not as fighting game's disparity as aiming skills and movement carries over so much but it's definitely more than a game like valorant or csgo. I really don't feel too strongly about the op weapons and gadgets right now. 1887, heal beam and defib being op is not a problem at all honestly, I just think other weapons and gadgets need a buff (except xp, it's basically a sniper and should kill way slower from a distance)
Omg i got pinned! Okay theres a balance between giving the player a balance and giving the player a free kill The grapple claw is a free kill. Idk how to balance it outside of removing it Also Charge Rush should do less damage and more knock back maybe keep the jump smash as is because its fun Just shower thoughts Danmit he said air cannon an i went nuts maybe it can blow mines amd grenades away and building debris cuz god knows that shit gets in the way
I’m interested in wt at least what you mean by low Elo vs high elo, like specifically players in silver vs emerald because it’s all one queue with no sbmm, and when I do play against those top 5 top 10 players recently it’s seemed to be a weird number of sword lights, I see 2 -3 every tourney
All I'll say is that there is a graveyard of dead games that ballanced their game and the mechanics and tech within the game for casuals. You always have to ballance with the highest elo players in mind. This assures a healthy comp environment that keeps good players around and gives casual players a sense of skill progression. I feel this the biggest issue with the Finals since the beginning. Too much "cheese" in low elo casual play and absurdly OP metas in high elo play and together it drove most of the player base away. I'd much rather them tear the game down to the bones with balancing than have another season like season like we had. I can't slog through another season of glitch trap, heal beam, rpg, shields, 1887, sas, defib, winch claw
I am not on reddit, discord, Instagram so i don't know much about people complaining but I play this game almost 2hours/day and barely get kills because my aim is very very bad but I still play and I don't have any complaint because I just love playing this game. The only problem I have right now is i need 700 multibucks to buy the battle pass. I can afford to buy 500 but I don't know how to get the other 200💀 and really like this battlepass. And one more thing I don't like is the reduced time of the dome shield. They should've made it 7.5sec 5 sec is too less.
I have spent 1k hours on The Finals. And I have been pondering why I reached a burnout on this game recently. Initially this game brought back my passion for gaming but as the meta is growing I believe this game has a bit of identity crisis. The developers really need to hone in and make cashout ranked and possibly keep TA. While simultaneously offer these modes casually for warm up’s and chaos. Cashout ranked should not have the healing beam or be removed entirely, or random timed events ie low gravity. I think invisibility should be removed entirely. Give lights faster movement speed and buff the gateway in return. Nerf glitch mines or fix them, fix the dematerializer. Also not being able to fire my gun randomly is not fun. As for cashout rule changes the defense buff is over powered. This game has a lot of potential but all in all I do feel season 3 was a major let down. I think these changes will make more load-outs viable instead of the constant HHM MMH crutch that is going on. Solo queue is brutal. Also quality of life fixes in regards to all glass breaking when you run through it, and prioritizing picking up objects over reloading in the settings as is is not good enough should be able to not reload while holding an object, and be able to manually drop a item. Good day.
YapaYapayapapapyapayapppaaaaa
Absolute yappathon inbound
Itachi
"I'm better at the game than you, so everything I say is facts and you are wrong" 😅
Jk much love 😊
u better have talked about the goo hammer strats
49:35 the switch to tracking dart to deal the last 10pts of damage was absolutely beautiful!
When it was on medium I got a few kills with it! So satisfying! 👌
I really wish there was an achievement for that, its so satisfying to do
Throwable spear would be sick as a secondary attack style.
Rocket jump for Heavy (TF2 style)
Necromancer specialization for Medium (revive and heal team, but after reviving there is a cooldown before you can heal)
Stim for Light ( health and speed boost ) or something like vanishing boom but for all team members in the area it shortens their specialization cooldown by 50% for 30 seconds.
As you mentioned it would be cool to see the RPG cause players and objects in the blast radius to be pushed back but damage reduced.
defo one of the best finals creators make me have hope that the game will continue to thrive
49:34 The way my jaw just dropped when you completed the kill with the Tracking Dart... I didn't even know it did that tiny bit of damage XD
5 dmg yeah
For game balancing it would be sick to see custom game modes where users can play around with the damage values and other numbers and save / share them with the community to test and vote. Or just for extra chaos.
just casually chatting over the most insane clips. 49:33 intentionally two tapping with the tracking dart to finish someone off. you're such a fun player to watch, love the creativity.
haha yeaaa i had a bunch of clips that I didn't know where to put them so I put them over some yapping lol, didn't expect many people to actually watch the gameplay
Rpg rocket jumps would be sick! Alot of older gamers would love it too, cuz of the history. 😊
It would be great for pushing people off moving platforms and what not too! Would require more thought and skill
Love these, can’t wait to hear his perspective but I’m not sure how he finds time between 500h long streams 😂
40:27, I’m sorry Strafez, but I have to disagree with you on the No mines on heavy part. I see nothing wrong with having mines on heavy, in fact it’s quite the opposite. Heavy’s main purpose is to be a defensive anchor to the teams objective, and mines are one of those things that complement that idea of Heavy. I personally think mines are in a completely fine state (other than glitch) and do not need to be looked at. If you’re walking into mines, you need to take stuff slower and learn how to push something properly.
5:15 This trick, letting objects fall through glass, is one of the most underrated moves ever lol
its the only way to break glass while carrying an object without losing it
@@thedarkflowkiller Exactly, and the amount of people I see throwing cash boxes through windows like 🤦♂️
@@thedarkflowkiller i used to release item behind the glass (item isnt solid when in hand) quick melee and then pick up the item. it took me until like a month ago to accidently mess up my timing and release item into the glass causing it to break to figure out there is a more efficient way of doing this
@@clintshidwood4511 hahaha
Appoh now that I know you're a graphic designer, I can't unhear the client voice you use LOL. I always wondered why your approach to videos and commentary were always so professional and but now I know why your content and analyses are so focused and grounded. Great conversations around balance and player experience, definitely helped me see things bigger picture. Great video once again. Cheers!
0:31:12 Don't nerf my mines even further, they aren't left in a random spot, they are left at the top of stairs or just inside a doorway because I know you will walk there without looking. There are two because you have to use both of them for them to matter because they killed its spread. I used to be able to get two players at once. They already nerfed them so that you can't use them to make holes in most floors anymore. They used to be a great utility pick because you could use them to go through walls and floors to create unpredictable angles.
1:00:23 It would be cool if we could parry the winch with quick melee if we see it coming.
Quick Melee Winch parry sounds really cool. Hard to pull off but that would be satisfying.
nerfing the double stack tactic sounds completely fair though, means as a mine user you have to capitalize on the enemy running though it or bait them when they are low. an instant kill like that is frustrating for newer players who dont fully understand the game. people want to feel like the enemy who killed them put effort in to succeed.
@@Appohthat instant kill nerf was the best one
@@Appoh Nerfing the double stack would just kill the usefulness of mines. Its only an instant kill once, after that you know its in play and that you should be careful. You also see the mine icon in the kill feed. New players are inexperienced, not stupid. Getting good with mines means learning that putting them on top of the cashout point is (Usually) a waste and that putting them in places where players are likely to run is much more effective. Nerfing them would just be punishing the players that figured it out. If they can't kill people you have to change your play style so you are nearby so you can finish off players who stepped on them. They would completely lose their ability to cause a delay while you move the cash box and would severely limit your ambush potential when intercepting a team in possession of the cash box.
A good middle ground might be to let you see what your opponents are bringing before the match starts the same way you can see what your team mates are bringing. This might also mitigate player frustrations with their play-style being countered. Like if you could see that the enemy teams are bringing snipers you could decide not to take a sword for example. A change I would love to see is one where you can change your weapons and gadgets at any time while you are dead and not just when you are ready to respawn, this could also push new players towards experimenting with different equipment combinations sooner.
Mines are currently a good option for solo players because it gives you a chance turn a 3-vs-1 into a 2-vs-1, the game is already severely stacked in favour of 3-stacks, nerfing mines would disproportionally hurt solo players.
The only nerfs I can think of that doesn't just outright ruin the viability of explosive mines would be if you only get one mine but it does double damage so that enemies are less likely to step on it and so that you can't cover as large an activation area at once. Alternatively you could decrease their damage but increase their spread so that you can get multiple players reliably at once again. That might make babysitting the mines worth it.
Just decreasing their damage would drain the game of strategic options. To me this as the worst possible outcome a change could have.
@@tropictiger2387 i mean you have the potential of over 250 dmg with 2 mines, you can 100% get use out of them if you play correctly, random free kills is not very healthy. We should really be encouraging more players to join the game and have a good experience, stuff like this is not a fun experience. We've had stuff like nukes and rpg ruin the experience being an explosive 1 shot that has little counter play, mines are basically there, especially during all the chaos in a fight, we need more legibility, stuff like indicators over frag grenades, more obvious mines, and less random 1 shot mechanics so people feel they have a chance. I understand you like them but you have to fight for what is healthy for the game, same reason I am ok with stun gun nerfs even though I like and use stun gun. I want what is best for the game to survive and thrive as new players come and go we need to make sure their experience is the best it can be
Honored to play with Strafez during the Emerald grind and win a couple of World Tours. He’s a grinder and one hell of a player.
this is some solid content, we appreciate you
Hands down, you have to be my favorite finals UA-camr you target all the best topics
26:14 The CL-40 appearing as soon as this topic gets brought up is straight golden XD
@@isaace.6157 no mention of CL-40 though. The fact that it isn't even on their radar speaks volumes.
I love your videos Appoh. Thank you for taking the time to create these!
in terms of utility for heavys: i would love to see a change to the ks 23 so that it would break down a wall with 2 shots instead of 3 and makes a bigger hole (so it is guaranteed that you fit into it). No nerf or buff with the damage itself just to use it more for breaching without spending so much time and ammunition. Rocket Jump as a concept would also be a interesting idea like you said. To the winch: i think it should slow down just a little bit to break the chain and should make it depending on the ankle you winched somebody. Like if you winch him from behind it should be close to impossible to turn around and shoot the chain but if you do it from the front you should be able to shoot the heavy or the chainitself to break free. So it would get more of a skill ceiling
Thanks for this, I appreciate you and the fact your still promoting/ talking/ discussing the finals.
I’ve been playing since OB and got about 1200 hours into the game. Placed myself into the top 40 now of the finals leaderboard and I still can’t get enough of this game!
I can’t wait to see what they’re gonna do with all the feedback and there own ideas for S4.
Thanks
Personally as someone who plays wwaaayy too many games and whos just creeping up on 100 hours in finals build variety really is important even if u dont like playing a certain way play it really does give you perspective I play with a lot of people of a whole bunch of skill levels who complain about vastly diffrent things but the one trait that ties those complaints together is most of the time theyve never played with that option or playstyle no shade against them but your point of jumping around finding your nieche is sooo important like even if you dont think you like something playing as it really makes u understand how to counter it.
Agreed on the Healing beam. Another way to nerf it is to provide counterplay: impact glitch nades or even anti heal debuff (via Gadget or nade) like ow2.
Amazing Video. Lot of thought put in. Loved the questions you asked zaff
01:07:51 For Season 4, I'd like to see the promotion of more playstyles. This is super broad, but it speaks to a lot of the stuff you two have talked about. Medium weapons have been reduced to boring and slightly less boring, Heavy weapons have been reduced to boring but good and boring but bad. And Light is the prime example of variety here, where you can choose almost anything and play with it. Dagger, Sword, the Uzi, XP54, SH1900, all have fun scenarios where they are applicable. Heavy and medium don't meet this standard with their primaries. Gadgets is the same story in different colors, but that's why I would say what I'd like to see is so broad XD Pretty much just agree with the video. Stuff needs unscrewed, I want my game back XD
41:28 I miss playing Sonar on medium. I used to love tossing Sonars into building windows as Heavy and Light breached the building. It was like being tech role, running the drone, sending scans from the satellite to your team XD It was support! And I love support roles. Idk what I would suggest as far as changes though. Sonar seems to pair pretty well with Light, and Heavy having Sensor makes sense because of C4 strategies and "fortification." Tracking dart though, I've never seen that being useful on anything other than sniper. Maybe it needs a rework or something, who knows.
You were basically the military intelligence officer 😀
Literally just got done tbagging balise. On his stream my name is H_NGM_N lmao. If you don't know he's number 2 in the finals and he's toxic so returned the favor
Doing God's work
Real shit
I also out FraG him in a tournament we went heads up on Finale round -stole the first cashout but we lost - mind you I’m with a buddy an a Random - he was stacked - I go by PSYCHOMAD TV 😎
Thank you for your service @@psycho7045
He's very toxic so you gotta return the favor
6:08 This is how you know that these people suggesting things just don't have a good feel for what they're talking about. It brings to mind my cousin that I play with. He constantly has suggestions for how this should work and how this needs to be buffed or nerfed and, I'll be honest, he's better than me at the game, but has no idea what he's talking about as far as balancing goes. He just talks, and his limited-to-light perspective doesn't help his knowledge of the game as a whole. When you consider suggestions from (even really high skill) players, you have to remember that they're just players. A well rounded perspective is lost on someone according to their own biases, which is why I think balancing is a collaborative effort. Players talk, devs listen, changes fall somewhere between hard numbers and player sentiment.
Lol light players have the biggest mouth 😅 They're always so toxic yet can't carry their weight. Running off and getting tons of kills doesn't win games. I mostly play heavy and get bashed cuz my aim isn't great and I use off meta loadouts.
@@user-ne9sd4ow1o Getting emoted on after dying while using off-meta or semi-throwing loadouts is so annoying. Like yeah, you're the basic beach and I'm the one with personality. There's a reason you're still using the beam bye-bye emote 🙄
@@isaace.6157 We would get along 😅 I'm so tired of lights thinking they're good cuz they use mp5
@@isaace.6157 My username is "FlyingTurret" on PC if you ever wanna play! 😊
yeah some people are goofy at suggesting stuff
Very enlightening discussion! Thanks for sharing!
I agree with most of your points, but i dont like seeing any damage nerfs. i want to see changes for sure. i definitely agree that the glitch trap is insanely strong i also wouldnt care if stun gun was removed the rpg is such a weird subject to me because as a light main i hate it i think its incredibly cheesy but it is an rpg it should do alot of damage, so i really dont know what id do to it, ive gotten into the habbit of trying to bait out an rpg but this doesnt always work and the glitch grenades should be a good counter but with an effect of 5secs its really hard to capitalize every time
Id like to see buffs to all the classes make counters more of an option rather then making one particularly strong item or weapon worse
I definitely hate the triple model medium meta right now and makes world tour hell having to kill a team technically multiple times just to secure the objective is super frustrating
Love the idea of making the dfib a specialization. Maybe add a stim shot gadget that starts health regen early?
you would always pick heal beam over defib spec because it is better to keep team alive rather than trying to pick up the pieces of whats left.
@@clintshidwood4511 yeah I'm saying remove healing beam, replace it with dfib & add a stim shot
@@DeLordV everyone will then run defib spec and stims, which is exactly what is happening with heal beam and defib gadget. you basically made heal beam into a gadget and it can only be used on your self so minus team work and plus selfish playstyle. every single medium now runs stim because it is the best gadget, youd be throwing if you dont pick it. what changed and how is it better?
@@clintshidwood4511 Stim shot can be used on anyone. Difference is someone can't be continuously healed while they're taking damage which is the main frustration for me currently.
Like doc from siege. You could stim yourself or a teammate to start healing them
The stun gun became obsolete in higher elo solely due to the fact it doesnt stop a heavy from shoving a rocket down your throat or a medium from using defibs.
I really enjoy this type of content, would love to see a review / deep dive based on competitive replays from competitions or high end play
40:55 YES grenades need a warning or something! 🙏 I feel like such a cheese ball using them cuz theyre so good
at least make a sound whenever they hit the ground or walls because they're so quiet, actually I don't even know if they have a sound lol only when they explode they make a sound but it's already too late yo ass is dead 😂
Loving this
Played season 1, got busy playing Elden Ring during season 2, finally came back for season 3 and am loving it. I can’t stand Terminal Attack, but Quick Cash/World Tour feel great right now. Even if the population stays at 15k for the next couple of years, I really hope this game keeps going. Looking forward to season 4!
Appoh one thing I wanted to mention about the medium turret is that I find a lot of people use it the same way and it is useless at higher elos. However, I find so much value in it by being essentially a medium sonar grenade on flanks and off angles. It is also amazing with the R.357 because one bullet from it and landing headshots means you break through a lot of breakpoints with the magnum
Strafes is responsible for 2 of my loses 😢 almost to em 1 though… XD
Edit: after finishing the video I’d like to just say some things. I pretty much agree with a lot of stuff you guys are saying, especially about how they’ve been nerfing medium and heavy (mostly heavy though) to the point where their weapon and gadget pool in terms of viability is so small that we’re pretty much seeing the same loadouts every game. For example, Heavy this season doesn’t really have any ranged weapons or gadgets that are great other than RPG so if you’re more than 5 meters away, you can just expect to catch an RPG to the face because that’s literally the best course of action for a heavy at that point most of the time.
I don’t want to make this too long so I’ll just separate my thoughts about the classes like you guys did:
Lights - I honestly think lights are probably the most balanced right now. They’re the most fun to play and they have the best build variety. Unfortunately because of how this game is played, the entire class’s viability is heavily determined by the strength of the other two classes, but right now I think they’re in a good spot. I dunno why the 93r can’t catch a buff though ffs lol.
Medium - I definitely agree that the defib and heal beam are far too strong. It would be nice if one day we could find a strong build that doesn’t rely on defib at least. In my opinion, medium also needs a crowd control gadget or specialisation. I think some sort of concussion grenade that slows enemies or a specialisation that shoots out a frequency that slows movement in a small radius would be cool. This is mostly just because medium has 2 useless melee weapons as they don’t have any chase potential unless you happen to use demat inside a building. I think a concussion grenade would be the logical option, but I think if they made a slowing specialisation for medium, you’d see a lot less people using heal beam which would be good. I also think the fcar might need to go back to a better recoil pattern and the models might need its range reduced. (As a medium main, I genuinely hate this shotgun meta that we’re going through right now)
Heavy - imo heavy is the weakest class right now because it just keeps getting hit with nerfs. I really like the idea of the rpg’s damage being halved, but it also gets the utility of pushing people around. But I also think the Lewis gun’s recoil needs to be way better and the m60 needs to either do more damage or have way better recoil as well. Truth be told, I also don’t know why we can’t just ADS with the KS either. I think it would help that weapon a lot. For the winch, I don’t hate your guy’s suggestion that the pull should be slower, but you can break the chain. But I think honestly if you just gave it a longer cooldown - even if it misses - it would feel a lot better. Or, I also like the idea of putting the winch as a secondary fire for the spear XD that would be cool too. But I dunno, for me right now the heavy class feels bad to play as and bad to play against, and they definitely need some changes.
Keep up you awsome videos🎉
Love you appoh ❤️
I am a casual, but I think if you had the RPG do 75 damage pershot and give them two rockets, you give the RPG a more destructive role and give it the ability to kill a light with purely the rockets, but the skill needed increases and allows the light to react to a heavy getting a drop on the light.
This game makes me so angry sometimes but i still love it
Same smh same
A rocket jump for heavy is a really good idea, I hope it gets implemented
I think every the finals player should watch this video.
I really only enjoy playing light in this game because of the high movement skill cap. The mines are absolutely tragic. There are tons of cheesy ways to die in this game, but the cake has to be falling through a floor onto a mine and dying. Dashing over a ledge with a mine just out of sight or trying to steal against 2 squads and 6 mines are on the ground. A heavy once winched me over a mine, that was the only time i felt that some brain activity went into my demise. Great discussion, I just started playing on season 3, I hate to think what it was like before this lol.
52:04 For some reason I never considered giving the RPG a second charge alongside a nerf lol. I always thought 'Oh but if they nerf it it'll be useless and it'll never get picked.' But if you were to just break up its damage output between two charges, you wouldn't have the problems of RPG now, and it would still serve a lot of purpose for builds that need that quick finishing damage. I also like the idea of it pushing players from its center of impact lol. That sounds fun XD
Great video!
as someone who does not play ranked and wouldnt consider myself "high level" but i completely agree with all these points. Have spent a decent amount of time in the finals discord lately and the braindead takes ive seen on there is incredible and feel completely out of touch. some of these guys have 1k+ hours and just have the worst opinions on balance. Thank you for such a good discussion :))))
7:15 that prediction was crazy
Strafez is a real one, love the insights on the game. I gotta say though I think more than anything he's 💯 right that light sniper really is the best option for Power shift, truly enlightened
Another banger!
48:52 I can relate with this.
rocket jump sounds dope AF
4:00
I agree with the take of: "lets listen to people who actually play the game." The game is currently at 15.8K players on Steam, down from 38.6K in June, 48.5K in March, and 242.6K in last December. The game is also trending downwards at the moment. I don't think Embark will ever be able to recover even half the numbers they had a launch.
I believe this happened because of their balancing at the very start. A lot of the dumb fun was nerfed away, IE the Shotgun/invis/stungun combo, the heavy C4 nuke, and the recon sens. I think this hit the lights the most, because for the most part, the heavies and meds still had great team play utility. The light, on the other hand, is the odd one out. They feel dissonant with the core game design. It's a team game and they're the ones who are supposed to flank around, make deposits, and assassinate. The Shotgun/invis/stungun combo was the crutch holding their class up. I bailed from the game after they kept nerfing lights, but I heard that they're good now.
nukes HAD to go. stun gun HAD to be nerfed, it was like 10 second stun originally which is INSANE. sawed off 2 shot a heavy HAD to be nerfed. it sucks that the player count drop so much but damn, if these nerfs made them leave then those people were only there to exploit broken "crutches" before their obvious and inevitable nerf.
@clintshidwood4511 I know they had to go for comp play to exist, but they were fun, plain and simple.
@@jax5683 fun to exploit, sure. fun to play against, not even close. getting hit with a 10 second stun to me meant i was free to whip out my phone and scroll some memes waiting to respawn, not even going to bother attempting to do pathetic chip damage with hip fire. or how was a nuke that instantly kills 2+ people with one click fun to play against? how is it fun to play a tank class and get deleted in 2 clicks, faster than you can even figure out what is happening. comp or casual, those things should not have been in the game to begin with.
A comment for engagement cause appoh is the best finals UA-camr
What if there was some kind of quick minigame in the vein of lockpicking or hitting a button at the right time or something with winch claw. If you are grabbed you have a little window to hit spacebar at the right time or turn a dial to the right angle to cut the chain. It could add some counterplay
Yeeessss! We NEED easier ways to group back up with people you meet ingame. Three stacking takes me from a negative or flat k/d to a 2+ k/d with people on comms. Please please please push this with the devs. We NEED it!
Also; thank you for this episode! I’m listening while painting boxes at work😂. I’m in love with the Finals, and have been since beta. Can’t get enough of this stuff
31:12 Nah, explosive mines are in a good place. They take up a gadget slot, require setup beforehand, can easily be countered by more mindful movement, and only one shot when stacked -and that's IF the light doesn't just dash over them. I might could see a slight damage nerf to make one-shotting mediums (when stacked) no longer an option, but there's no way I would agree that stacking as a strat needs to go. We already have an arming timer that makes using them for getaways problematic, and the utility of a static defense is already relatively low compared to frags for example. I don't wanna be out here limiting more playstyles. One shot doesn't always equal bad.
40:44 Exactly my point. The only instances where you fail to mines are when you're not paying attention. This is the balance of the gadget, you have to be mindful of where you step to counter them. They. are. mines. lol.
i just feel like to make the experience enjoyable for everyone they are in an unhyealthy state especially for new players, dying instantly is never fun when the enemy player didnt put in the effort to earn it
@@Appoh Yeah, but the dichotomy between instant kill and earning it and instant kill without earning it is significant, and you claim mines are always unearned kills.
There are two scenarios where mines kill.
One scenario involves placing mines in very visible places and having negligent players walk over them. Placing them visible is an area control strat, and the only reason players are dying to them is because of negligence. It's like using dash and accidentally dashing off the stage/course to your death. Sure, the kill with the mine was unearned, but now we're shifting the blame from the player who walked over something obvious to the player who placed something obvious. If a player walks right up to the muzzle of my shotgun, that's his fault, right? Same thing with visible mines.
The other scenario where mines kill is when they're placed strategically. Above those vents where you have to crouch or in bushes like mentioned, for example. Another strat I personally like to use is to partially block an entrance with goo and leave mines just around the corner of the goo where once enemies make entry, they go off. These placements require intention and preparation, and you can only choose one placement at any given time anyway, unless you're running gas/explosive at the same time. Then it goes up to two 😵💫😂 This is a serious deviation from the visible placement, where kills occur as a result of your skillful placement of the mines. It's not skill in the way of gunplay, but it's skill in the way of developed defense strategy. I argue it's an earned kill 💁♂️
And if we're talking about the experience of new players, sure, it's another thing you have to learn about this game. But to say that they're unhealthy is a pretty big claim. There are far more unique aspects of this game that claim the "difficult for new players to understand" title, as opposed to land mines lol. New players would pick up on the 'watch where you step' skill pretty quickly, I would hope 🤷♂️ Aside from that, I can't really disagree with you. Yeah, dying to defenses is difficult at first.
I hope I present a reasonable argument for my point, because I really just don't agree that land mines need tweaked. The lack of gadgets with genuine utility on medium is already something you addressed in the video, so I fail to see how further reducing the utility of medium's gadgets (the ones that are far from overpowered to begin with) serves this end 😭😭 I just hard disagree 🤷♂️
@@Appoh i despise mines. before finals, i was maining bfv and the trip mines were so lame especially when you have 16-32 players spamming them EVERYWHERE forcing you to play like it's r6. who has fun in an arcade fast pace fps where you also have to play hidden objects detective FB mini game???
I haven't watched the whole video because it's very long so I don't know if this was adressed. Should the finals only have one super balanced gamemode instead of the various gamemodes they implemented? I feel like the various gamemodes is holding the game back for some reason.
I want to hear a video of strategy you guys have used since the changes
Ahhh yes, Everytime I got stunned in 90% of team fights as Heavy, Was them countering my agility and cheetah like movement haha
I get what you're saying about the SA12 and RPG, but I think that along with some of the other nerfs you guys proposed, while they would result in better balance, would have to be done at a much later date than Season 4's start. Specifically because the bulk of players are already mad about nerfs, some of them even outright leaving the game explicitly stating said nerfs were the reason why, and doing stuff like just dropping the RPG's damage to 100, making the Defib a specialization, or nerfing the heal beam, would IMMENSELY piss off the remaining player base.
I like what you proposed with the RPG, and Strafez "necromancer" idea (revive by spending a ton of heal beam) though, and if instead of nerfs, they did sidegrade type reworks to things, such as reducing the RPG's damage to 75 but then adding a pushback that'll knock enemies away and let you rocket jump, then players would receive the nerfs and reworks far more positively. I definitely think they need to stop primarily listening to casual/lower level players, too. It's important to listen to them since they're the bulk of the players, and in turn buying mtxs, but the aggressive nerfing they clamored for is how we even got in this position in the first place.
Because speaking from experience, me and my two friends who regularly play, we've gone from dreading LLL teams to seeing that and going "oh this is a free match, then" and actually winning like 80% of our matches when the other teams are majority Lights, and I think the bulk of the clamoring for nerfs comes from people stuck in the former mindset. We didn't even need to watch any specific tutorials, we just frequently share our replays and noticed how often a Light would pick an individual off, so now we all stay together. In turn, any Light that comes up to us we all just turn around, kill him, and resume what we were doing, and I'm doubtful the lower skill players are actually examining their own gameplay and working as a team that extent.
I'm a simple man I see Battlefield devs so I say base the classes and the guns and the equipment off of Battlefield. Even if they had a gun in Battlefield that was better than the other guns, all the other guns were still fun and usable unlike right now where we only have two weapons that are usable right now (model & XP) and the other ones are unusable. And for the medic class, instead of a healing beam make it a throwable medkit on the floor to get passive health while standing next to it. I would go on with more ideas but the devs already have the recipe because they made the Battlefield games so all they have to do is just cook and not be afraid to ruffle some feathers because the Final Community is not the best specimens in the world lol.
If you figure a World tour win is 30 minutes (10 minutes each for first two rounds, average 10 minutes more for the third) then getting 300 Tournament wins is (300*30)/60. That's 150 hours of playtime where you do not ever lose.
Winch claw feels like the panzer on origins pulls you and you’re about to lose the juggernog you tried so hard to get because it’s going to kill you and you can’t escape because there’s no red light to shoot
Was a heavy main up until the start of season and I've switched to a model medium, made it to emerald 1 and I've still been playing world tour since.
1. Agree with XP-54 nerf, almost all high elo lights use it's got more range than the AK.
2. Indecisive about model nerf. I'm biased since I main it but hear me out. The model trades the consistency and range of the AK for better survivability and burst damage. Feels awful against teams that are smart enough to play around its strengths. Also feels awful to miss shots at point blank but that might just be me. Its a rewarding weapon in the right situations but isn't as good of a general weapon as the AK. If it does end up getting nerfed bad enough I'll go back to the AK or maybe main the revolver.
3. Agree with the medium support nerf, medium shouldn't be able to insta res and heal at the same time. I can hit my shots but its kinda lame gameplay if I end up being a pocket healer, especially in in a double heavy team. It's also not thought provoking gameplay if in a 2v3, 90% of the time the right play is to defib and quickly reset instead of finishing the fight or fleeing for coin respawns. I hope Embark can come up with some sort of viable specialization for medium, demat and turret are just not as powerful as 50 hp/sec for any team mate.
4. Agreed with glitch mines needing a rework. I don't main them but they're an easy counter to defibs and annoying to play against. It's especially more punishing for lights and heavys which rely on their specialziations / gadgets for survivability.
5. Agreed with potential jump pad nerf but I really don't know how it should be addressed. Almost every medium uses it, it's applicable to traversing the map, aggression, and fleeing. Double heavy teams are very powerful if they coordinate pushes with the jump pad. Often combining rpg and a slam. In high elo games it's a little annoying that many fights are focused on jump pad pushes.
6. Agreed with the grenade indicator. It's a slight nerf to them. Most of the time grenades are impactful when thrown in the middle of a fight where players are too focused to to notice a little ball wipe their team.
7. Agreed with rpg nerf. Too easy to use and too rewarding. A heavy is throwing if they dont have it. One part people often don't mention is the usefulness of instant destruction in a fight. If you rpg an enemy, not only are the half health or less, they're also separated from their team because they fall down from the explosion. It's an extremely easy pick.
Mines are fine the way they are. Sure you can make them louder if you want so people can be more aware of it however that is the point of setting traps. (There wouldn't be a point if people are going to know where they are)
For grenade you can make an indicator but to me it would be more easier to dodge them. I don't think an indicator is necessary
I hope season 4 brings more traps and gadjets! Like a slippery effect and more unique mechanics! Imagine getting kills from players slipping off the map 😂
They could make a "slippery when wet" yellow sign skin!!! ⚠️ Embark please 🙏
Make the defib a specialization I think. You have to choose one or the other. I think a grenade that heals like 100 health would also be a cool gadget for medium.
Truly speaking, i dont give a f anymore about finals meta. Still watching your vids, but haven’t played for a few month
46:53 bro fr cooked me 😥, on the topic of SA though. I think the only real solution is to completely rework the gun so it dosnt have the animation at 4 bullets and dramatically increase the time between shots. The issue will always be its burst dps. The gun just does not make sense on a class designed for sustained dmg. Idk maybe its just me.
Hello :) New player here with 19.2 hours, i absolutely love the game, there is one extremely major thing that is ruining the game for me, thats Leaving and AFK'ing players. Now i dont know if this problem is more present because im new and get matched with new players too or what ever reason. but WITHOUT over exagerating, i have had 1-2 leavers EVERY SINGLE MATCH in my 19h..... if its not my team, then its the enemy team, the worst case of leavers i had till now was 3v3v1v0. 5 leavers in 1 match..... they need to increase the penalty, either u have no chance to win or you just faceroll the team with a missing player.... and they have to use their token if they are afk...... I REALLY HOPE that this problem gets less when i level and rank up more, but i would understand if new players would just quit the game at that point.... i was close to it too even tho i like the game.
Can we @ Embark with this video. This is a very good example of rational and logic perspective about balancing this game.
As a heavy main I want to have fun. The heavy meta is strong… but not fun.
I currently play mostly Light, my rank: Emerald 2.
Some suggestions:
1. Raise HP for all players to increase time-to-kill (TTK) and reduce the effectiveness of burst damage. Personally i dont see the balance of weapons as others do. Most weapons are in a good place right now, the only issue is the burst, thats why nukes were removed.
2. Show cooldowns as numbers instead of a decreasing bar (toggable).
3. Advanced Scoreboard: Add the ability to see each player's gadget and specialization with TAB+R.
4. Introduce a Zipline for the Heavy class, this could limit their gadget options and help reducing their reliance on teammates. Which is useful for solo players or mid-high elo but not so much for top players and 3-man parties.
5. Event Suggestion - "Lights Out": Where all lights in the map are gone, and players rely on body-generated light. Also, everyone can use Thermal Vision at will.
6. Defibrillator Adjustment: Reduce charge-up time from 0.8 seconds to 0.6 seconds QoL. Since 2.0.0 this gadget feels non-responsive and less accurate because of this change.
7. Introduce Healing Darts as a specialization for the Medium class. (I can really expand on this).
8. Show current health as a small number near the crosshair.
9. Make the defibrillator a passive for all Medium players but you only get to use it once per wipe on each teammate.
10. Rework the turret into a healing turret.
11. Increase APS efficiency or reduce its CD to minimize RPG annoyances.
12. Reporting System: Add an option to report griefers.
13. Solo Queue Protection: Avoid placing solo players against multiple 3-man parties.
14. Enable a whisper function for communication with added friends.
15. Wall Mechanics Update: Enemies can no longer pass-through dematerialized walls without destroying them first.
16. Include an infographic for real-time ping and FPS.
17. Increase Mesh Shield health as before (1,250) but introduce a cooldown based on remaining shield strength, basically you no longer get to spam activate-deactivate your shield. This with the next suggestion will tone down the specialization.
18. No Duplicate Specializations: One of the primary reasons for the numerous nerfs to the Medium and Heavy classes is the lack of restrictions on duplicated specializations. This issue leads to certain specializations becoming overpowered when stacked, forcing developers to nerf them. As a result, these specializations feel either useless or unsatisfying to play when not stacked and only somewhat balanced when they are. To fix the inconveniences of this suggestion: Allow players to select multiple preferred specializations and classes before queuing and display estimated wait times. Most importantly, this change should be accompanied by reverting the nerfs imposed on gadgets and specializations due to the double or triple meta that emerged
19. Map Filters
20. Dedicated Grenade Slot: Introduce a specific loadout slot for grenades to enhance customization and usage.
21. Flashbang Adjustment: Now detonate on contact and prevent them from affecting teammates and yourself.
22. Gas and Smoke Grenade Update: Increase density and spread, adding effects like reduced movement speed or blurred vision, map-placed canisters don’t get these effects.
23. Thermal Bore feels weak, give it more charges, this game best feature is the Map Destruction.
24. Let me choose which skin I want, for ex. in Emerald, I don’t want the Lewis but I absolutely need the AK.
25. Jumpad should have 2 modes: Vertical (current), Horizontal (as the jumpads in Skyway Stadium), right click to switch between modes.
Great Video!! This is the only way to get meaningful feedback. I dont have enough voice for these suggestion reach someone at Embark, but at least I can brainstorm here.
Idea for a counter to mines, turrets, and glitch traps. A sonar grenade equivalent, but only for gadgets? Either a grenade, or a cone like IQ from Siege. It would let you support your team with intel. And for mobility for M and/or H, some kind of concussion grenade that boops people? you can grenade jump yourself and teammates (to prevent griefing, maybe it only works if you're in the air or crouching prevents it?), boop people off objectives, bounce away projectiles and barrels? A semi rifle on medium that focuses on environmental damage and a little range would be cool. I would honestly swap the revolver and LH1.
I remember how Valve balanced stuff based on how annoying something was to play against, not how powerful they were. Spy, Pyro and Demoknight in TF2 all got nerfs even though they were barely even competitively viable. Which I'm sure we all know is why most of the player base hates light.
On the other side of that, people get TOO comfortable with a meta being the best/most consistent, and when it's addressed they complain, even if there are other options. It's usually pros or high level players that complain, but I get it, it sucks to spend a bunch of time learning something to have it stripped away. In Siege, when something had a huge win percentage, and it got nerfed, people complained. Which is why some things are still dominant. In addition to that, having youtubers and streamers popularize meta opinions also doesn't help. Influencers don't explore enough (nothing can be done about this, I know). The 1887 not being changed and suddenly becoming popular is an example of it. Same happened in Counter Strike, when someone "discovered" that the Sig that hadn't been changed in years was good and suddenly everyone was using it and complaining that it was overpowered. You also can't always "bring things up to that level" because of how the game is designed, especially when balancing around TTK, which in is made more complicated in a team game.
I also think it's hard to balance around what the audience thinks because brains work in specific ways. A majority of people like getting kills, they like seeing that there's a "best" gun. And so support and intel items get left behind a lot, not because they're bad or not fun, but because people don't want to play like that. Even if all the weapons were really well balanced and everything was viable, people would still gravitate towards the one that barely edges out the others, and others would complain that it's OP because they keep getting killed by it.
I know no one will read this, but I needed to get it out of my head or I'd explode.
That kill at 7:00 was wild!
Love you Appoh but when did I sign up for a lecture on how to balance the game 😂 I feel like this video could have been split into two separate ones.
Oh btw I am loving these interviews they are amazing but I wish the interview is focused on the guest more with rapid fire questions and answers. I equally love to hear your own opinion and value it a lot but I would love to hear your analysis separately if it is going to be a long one potentially derailing the interview..
Anyways, much love bro keep doing what you are doing ❤
Well these are kinda like podcasts? it's jsut a little test I've been doing where I get guests to do a pocast with me about a topic and see how it goes. It's a lot of trial and error, we yapped longer than expected i had to cut out like 15+ mins of this too lol
Ah I see. Makes more sense if it is intended to be a podcast. I guess I just had the wrong expectation. It was a very enjoyable discussion nevertheless.
I think the thing i am most frustrated with in this game is its want to be played in the heavy medium light format. For example needing a heavy for sheilds in certain situations, meduim to provide support and movement for the team, and light to be the High Dps and fragger. But the way things are balanced right now makes it so picking more than one of either Medium or heavy is by far the most favorable setup. They need to change the classes so that no one class is dominant in numbers. I am really in favor of role locking, since up to this point i havent seen anything else work. There shouldnt be triple medium teams, double heavy medium, or double medium heavy. Its boring and clearly not what the development team was intending
And I'm saying this as a player from open beta, I have close to 300 hours total. I've given this game a lot of time
Everyone now: Model is OP!
Me since launch: Always has been 🤠
I don’t agree with nerfing the explosive mines. They’re meant to punish oblivious/tunnel vision style players. If they nerf it, it will become far less valuable compared to gas, glitch, and pyro mines.
i truly hope the devs see this
I havent finished the video yet so this may get mentioned but i doubt it. I think in World Tour giving an option once per round to either change a utility or a weapon would be a massive help. There are many rounds where i have lost purely to not being able to swap out a gadget to counter double heavy or double medium. I think having a ONCE per round option to change a part of your load out is fair and wouldnt give you the overwatch scenario of constantly swapping to counter the other team/s. Also give light 25 more hp!
Heavy needs more mobility option imo medium needs more defense options for melee on the class to be more viable and light is perfect i just wish they made hook into a gadget instead of a specialization i would like a hyper drive super fast movement buff specialization oh and we need more maps
Kid vicious was on and he was like a top 10. Didn’t know he was a streamer until my team told me. I trashed on him and his 2 light stacks trying to roll up on us. Ultimately, they got knocked out by us bc we focused them and stole majority of cashouts first round. -LordOfTheFlies
Give medium tracking dart, nerf heal beam, get rid of defib/ make RPG do less damage but more destruction. Make spear's right click a javelin throw. Get rid of glitch trap. Give heavy a jetpack.
Should make glitch trap only one stack tbh, that’s a slight buff to data reshaper as it’s limited charges can actually feel useful, maybe buff data reshaper to have 3 charges or a quicker cooldown?
The complaining entitlement is real, but also I can empathize with it. If you've invested enough time and money into a game you feel like you've earned the right to be heard, and that the developers should be listening to players like you because you're effectively part of the community that's keeping the game afloat. It's easy to say "people on Reddit complain about everything and are too entitled" but if someone cares about your game enough to be active in an online community and write about the aspects they don't like then it feels really shortsighted to just dismiss them completely. Embark need to learn this fast, because otherwise they're going to frustrate and ultimately lose a lot of fans. And simply put they don't have enough players that they can afford to be this complacent.
exactly, this is why i was mentioning early on that gamers are good at finding problems, not solutions. Even having a balance dev i know talk on tyhe subject for the video seems to agree with this
As a solo player. I fear i may not make it to season 4. I love this game but i literally dont play much anymore. Zero reasons to do so.
Also the devs fumbled extremely hard nerding everything to the floor,instead of buffing the weaker parts of the game. Ive never seen a fps come back from doing this. EVER
I've been playing World of Tanks over The Finals 💀
the divide exists cause of a skill gap, light class is a glass cannon and is good in the hands of people with movement, game sense and aim, however as the skill increases then light class falls off because everyone has all the core skills at a high level but you have a tiny amount of health in comparison. Its not for casuals play medium. Heavy is fine its just all positioning for and against of closing the gap, the only thing that I think could be nerfed on heavy is the RPG because when you play Light into Heavies with RPGs you don't stand a chance.
Replace heal beam with a heal grenade launcher. Think Baptist from Overwatch.
okay but lets take time to appreciate these shots 7:08-7:18. 😅
1:00:05 YES! A speed nerf to winching would be so nice! You get teleported by it right now, and it feels horrible. I dont use it cuz it feels cheesy and sucks to play against
Adding new game modes with the same integrity as the Finals is good like Bank it, but adding entirely new games into the finals like terminal attack and power shift will always keep the game unbalanced these quote on quote new modes are literally different games put in to the finals, they are not the Finals. The devs are putting too much on their plates. How could you balance three games in one???. That just baffles me.
Honestly, from how it sounds from the interview with the dev, it doesn't actually sound like he's going for entirely competitive balances and what's 'fun' (user experience). Pros just happen to be the players who always have the most amount of hours and experience with the game (best QA testers)
The big disparity between 'noobs' and pro's, and how they think the game should change, is definitely because this game is balanced around specialising in what you like. Kinda like how fighting game players can't get much better results if they use a totally different character, even if it is higher tier. It's definitely not as fighting game's disparity as aiming skills and movement carries over so much but it's definitely more than a game like valorant or csgo.
I really don't feel too strongly about the op weapons and gadgets right now. 1887, heal beam and defib being op is not a problem at all honestly, I just think other weapons and gadgets need a buff (except xp, it's basically a sniper and should kill way slower from a distance)
yeah exactly we tried to touch on this that you need a professional to do the balance job but you can get info and insight from the players
43:14 this 1000000% dying to mele heavies is the cheapest death in the game.
Omg i got pinned! Okay theres a balance between giving the player a balance and giving the player a free kill
The grapple claw is a free kill. Idk how to balance it outside of removing it
Also Charge Rush should do less damage and more knock back maybe keep the jump smash as is because its fun
Just shower thoughts
Danmit he said air cannon an i went nuts maybe it can blow mines amd grenades away and building debris cuz god knows that shit gets in the way
The discrepancy between heavy medium light, reminds me of how dps in overwatch hate tanks and supports thinking there to stong
What if lights had either the defib or healing beam instead of the medium having both?
I’m interested in wt at least what you mean by low Elo vs high elo, like specifically players in silver vs emerald because it’s all one queue with no sbmm, and when I do play against those top 5 top 10 players recently it’s seemed to be a weird number of sword lights, I see 2 -3 every tourney
All I'll say is that there is a graveyard of dead games that ballanced their game and the mechanics and tech within the game for casuals. You always have to ballance with the highest elo players in mind. This assures a healthy comp environment that keeps good players around and gives casual players a sense of skill progression. I feel this the biggest issue with the Finals since the beginning. Too much "cheese" in low elo casual play and absurdly OP metas in high elo play and together it drove most of the player base away.
I'd much rather them tear the game down to the bones with balancing than have another season like season like we had. I can't slog through another season of glitch trap, heal beam, rpg, shields, 1887, sas, defib, winch claw
I am not on reddit, discord, Instagram so i don't know much about people complaining but I play this game almost 2hours/day and barely get kills because my aim is very very bad but I still play and I don't have any complaint because I just love playing this game. The only problem I have right now is i need 700 multibucks to buy the battle pass. I can afford to buy 500 but I don't know how to get the other 200💀 and really like this battlepass. And one more thing I don't like is the reduced time of the dome shield. They should've made it 7.5sec 5 sec is too less.
I have spent 1k hours on The Finals. And I have been pondering why I reached a burnout on this game recently. Initially this game brought back my passion for gaming but as the meta is growing I believe this game has a bit of identity crisis. The developers really need to hone in and make cashout ranked and possibly keep TA. While simultaneously offer these modes casually for warm up’s and chaos. Cashout ranked should not have the healing beam or be removed entirely, or random timed events ie low gravity. I think invisibility should be removed entirely. Give lights faster movement speed and buff the gateway in return. Nerf glitch mines or fix them, fix the dematerializer. Also not being able to fire my gun randomly is not fun. As for cashout rule changes the defense buff is over powered. This game has a lot of potential but all in all I do feel season 3 was a major let down. I think these changes will make more load-outs viable instead of the constant HHM MMH crutch that is going on. Solo queue is brutal. Also quality of life fixes in regards to all glass breaking when you run through it, and prioritizing picking up objects over reloading in the settings as is is not good enough should be able to not reload while holding an object, and be able to manually drop a item. Good day.