Did Netanyahu Prop Up Hamas (and Other Matters)? Columnist and Analyst Jonathon Spyer.
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- Опубліковано 12 лис 2023
- Netanyahu Derangement Syndrome? Spyer pushes back on some of the more extreme interpretations of Netanyahu's policies and comments.
Also discussed: Human shields, Jihad, Camp David negotiations, and more.
Spyer is a British-Israeli analyst, writer, and journalist of Middle Eastern affairs. He is director of research at the Middle East Forum, editor of Middle East Quarterly magazine
In 2015, Bezalel Smotrich was a Knesset member who said, “The Palestinian Authority is a burden, and Hamas is an asset”. He's now the finance minister in Netanyahu's cabinet.
The blame for Hamas in power cannot be shifted off Israel. Hamas gained support as resistance of the occupation and siege. Israel didn’t create Hamas but they did support their role in Gaza for their own political agenda of invalidating Gaza on the international stage; claims at the UN and pressure to end the occupation and for a Palestinian state.
This is where his line of reasoning falls. Could Hamas have thrived if not for Netanyahus policies? He helped fund them, discredited PLO and inisted on the siege. Netanyahu needs a pretext for his policies. Hamas helps him provide that context
It's not so simple let's say bibi stop transferring money to the Gaza Strip who will suffer Hamas or the people of Gaza and the critics and even the "allies" of Israel will be outrage how dare you the people of Gaza are starving do you think they will understand the Israeli position that they don't want to fund Hamas Israel has to contain with other players
I agree with you that the PLO is discredited but I don't think it's because of Netanyahu the simply failed to deliver peace or victory or good government they failed everything they touch
Yeah, he goes soooo lightly on Netanyahu and the settlers thugs! Also Noam, who can be quite tough when he wants suddenly goes ginger
See how when it's convenient for Noam's zionist position he let's the man strawman and equivocation without verifiable claims or evidence, just statements of innocence of something we didn't accuse Netanyahu of (being an Allie of Hamas).
This is true comedy... Or possibly political gaslighting - "No, no, Netanyahu or the IDF would never do anything so devious. Trust me, I'm a very close associate with the Israeli establishment. I should know."
Imagine wasting 40 minutes by trying to put an English statement (not arabic or even Jewish) made by Benjamin natenyahu for supporting and funding Hamas. Mind you the same guy was found complicit of sending bags of money to Hamas.😂😂😂😂
I would love to see prof Finkelstein and spyer have a debate over this topic, backed with facts.
Let's talk about the HUNDREDS of times Israel rejected peace agreements in the UN
Didnt Netyahu hold a map up where Gaza is shown as part of Israel? As a neutral person, I suspect Israel wants to follow it's manifest destiny and incorporate Gaza as Israeli territory.
The imbalance in power between Israel and Palestine makes it hard to reach an agreement between the two.
The guest used these words in his analysis: we offered, we provide, should we .....
Unfortunately, I think the issue will continue until Palestine becomes more powerful or they get backed up by a powerful ally.
Israel will not involve in an honest negotiations, unless they have to.
Palestine will continue the resistance in all shapes and forms until they see themselves equal to Israel.
There is a say in Arabic: Dignity before safety.
Last point: If Palestinians get their town state, there will be peace for sometimes not for ever. Palestinians see Israel as an occupier, this will never change. They don't hate Jews, but they hate Israel.
I can't believe that these jokers are trying to justify Netanyahu's quote advocating "bolstering Hamas" as part of their "strategy -- to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank" Setting apart whether Hamas would have existed without Netanyahu's support, he did support them. In hindsight, like the US support of the Taliban, that was a mistake that turned literally fatal for 1,300 Israelis.
An even more damning quote from the same article the original came from, “We have neighbors, who are our bitter enemies ... I send them messages all the time ... these days, right now ... I mislead them, destabilize them, mock them, and them hit them over the head ... It’s impossible to reach an agreement with them ... Everyone knows this, but we control the height of the flames.” In his own words, Netanyahu was playing with fire; sooner or later, anyone who plays with fire is bound to get burned.
And remember, this is coming from someone who said, Israel is "the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people."
He will never have someone like finklestein again. The man ripped those 3 a new arse hole and they probably lost the respct of the viewer ship.
This guy actually does a good job of making himself sound reasonable whilst spouting so many lies and rewritings of history. If he had been challenged on any of it that would have been easily exposed.
“Fair and balanced.” - 🦊
Are we still talking about Hamas? What the problem here?It's not Hamas. Hamas exists because of Israel. The fact that they existed before nentu shows how there was a violent problem with Israel before oct. 7 and before 2006. Nentu has been in office in 1996 btw
Here for Noam’s density definition 😂
Spyer's opening counterargument is: "Hamas was created before Netanyahu was in power." I guess since they were created before one of the most powerful people in the country took power, nothing can be done about it.
Yeah, man. Didn't you know, since there is nothing that any Israeli politician could have done to bring about the reunification of Palestinian politics, so Netanyahu is therefore 100% justified in trying to divide it further by bolstering a terrorist group that ended up separating 1,300 Israeli souls from their bodies.
No one is upset because they believe that there is a Palestinian partner and Netanyahu doesn't. They're upset because supporting a murderous Hamas regime is the wrong thing to do.
Okay. "You're right to live" in the west bank IS RECOGNIZED by the Palestinians. There are Jewish people who live in the west Bank. Full stop. The issue is that Israel demands complete control of the region with a policy of apartheid separate courts and separate laws for Palestinians and they demand the right to violently force Palestinians in the west Bank off their property to establish settlements. It's insane how permissive your attitude is towards the vicious settlement projects.
Do we have a firsthand source for the original statement from Bibi?
I’m 16 minutes in and no mention of the occupations
Former Israeli official Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s, told a NY Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)
Thnx for this perspective.
I always give a benefit of the doubt to any conversation I listen to but unfortunately here is another one very naïve and simplistic view from right leaning
And let me be clear I don’t know either one of these gentlemen, but that’s the extraction from the conversation they are having 🤷🏻♂️
What a white wash!!🙄 🇮🇱 has always accepted the deals ?? Propaganda
Israel never wanted the two state solution. It was a delay tactic so they can gobble up more land that belong to the Palestinians
I think one point he made is actually very important look at surroundings of Israel political culture is extremely bellicose the Arabs don't treat each other very well including the Palestinians so why would they treat a minority in the region any better also there's no really big movements to make peace in Yemen which have been in in a state of conflict for a long time I don't get it why should the world care about this conflict more than the others around the world or in the Middle East It seems to me there is a deliberate push to focus on this conflict which is in proportion is quite small
The EU was created because Europeans hate each other and to stop them fighting another war,
Yamen is a civil war the Saudis should not get involved, Syria is the same thing,
Palestine is a lot different because everyone knows there was no Israel before 1948, the Europeans created anti-Semitic and then the holocaust the guilt is still floating around and every European is wondering if his parent or grandparents were anti-semitic, the look at it the majority were anti-semitic, you get the example is happening right now with the immigrant or refugees many people close the border we don't want those brown people but we don't mind Ukranians.
Ukraine and Israel get extra focus because theyre potential flash points for world wars due to the alliances at play.
This show is surprisingly good
Great discussion, sorely lacking into today's "Solomon's dilemma, split the baby" coverage.
That was a nice demonstration of right wong narrative without any real challenge to it
As the conversation continues on… it became complete clear that this is right wing propaganda and nothing more
Extremely disappointing!
I am amazed that how similar the Jewish view is whether in the US or Israel. Did they assume the Palestinians were going to accept the Israely occupation and on going despotic rule forever? Pondering why HAMAS attacked,and Looking for reasons other than brutal occupation,is ridiculous. Injustice started at the creation of Israel, got worse over the years. We all heard from Jewish officials the despicable names they saw fit for the Arabs. The West tried to make up for the pain they caused to the Jews by inflicting unbearable pain on the Palestinians.injustice of this magnitude had to change,I think HAMAS may have kick started the process.
700,000 settlers don’t take up that much space lol
lol imagine trying to contradict such a clearly in detail incriminating statement from Netanyahu lol the Israeli propaganda has no shame
I think there should be a no limit military resistance in the West Bank, because that's their land. Pretty much everyone in the world understands that Israel owns it's own pre 67 land, so why can't Israel accept the West Bank is Palestinian? The deal should be move to the 67 borders, remove the settlers and Jerusalem as it was decided in 67. If I was Palestinian I would want to negotiate parts of my land to get some sort of corridor connection between Gaza and the West Bank, either a tunnel or a road. That's it and Israel is the one who is doing everything to prevent that. Netanyahu told us that.
"Settlements are a diversion" _ tell us another joke. Interviewing a colonialist.
Better of with Ilan Pappe.
"Whenever there was a proposal for a split, the Israeli side accepted it and the arab muslim side rejected it!"
He must mean everything other than the continuous illegal settlement building, showing a complete disregard for any partition/split plan, for the last few decades.
Oh the Israeli people/gov would tooootally accept an inviting Palestinian partner to make peace! Of course they would!
As they continue building illegal settlements and allowing settler violence against Palestinians, with very few consequences.
Are you serious, Noam? You should put some clothes on - your bias is showing.
Addition:
I just heard his comment about how Israel was "willing" to make deals on the settlements but the Palestinians wouldn't? Or something similar to that.
Wait, what?
"The Israelis took Palestinian land, and illegally built settlements, but they're willing to negotiate on the settlements. The Palestinians won't."
Sorry, are we supposed to give kudos to the thief who offers to negotiate on returning the property they stole from you? This is such a ridiculous statement to make. And so unbelievably biased.
Hey Noam, would you be willing to have me on to discuss some of things mentioned in this interview? I actually genuinely like you as a person, I think that's why I keep torturing myself watching these lol
amazing analysis: everything Israel does is good and justified. wow.
Well instead of being snarky you can write a reply to the points that you disagree
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These comment sections after the episode with Norman Finkelstein really shows how obsessed and delusional his fanbase is.
Yet this guy couldn't even make one reasonable point to dispute dr Finkelstien. Watching two unapologetic zionists play softball with each other is so much more mentally stimulating huh?