@@lil_unholy7862a high level tank player named Yoda has a video of him soloing the first pull of NW+12 for 6 minutes and killing the pack alone. Self sustain is still very achievable its just much less forgiving.
@@GrantBrown-sp2tg no I seen that video, but what you are missing is the gear differential he had on the normal player, he was decked out mean while I was ilvl 613
Some people in the comments section seem to miss an important point of tank damage boost which is threat generation, especially snap threat generation. Although as a tank your average damage output per dungeon is not extremely relevant, unless in very high key scenarios where every bit counts, your ability to pull a pack easily and quickly, say one or two globals, without losing threat to your dps is quite crucial, especially when pulling multiple packs. Unless blizzard changes threat modifiers for tanks, which I do not foresee them doing, tank damage buffs across the board should all be well received imo, making it easier to generate threat. The BDK 10% seems redundant but I am assuming that is becuase all tanks got %dmg buffs and they gave BDK slightly lower one for balance.
DoC look like it might be as good if not better than Elune. Thankfully Moonfire is in the bear aura so the nerfs and buffs cancel out although its still a 20% buff to an arcane thrash. My only worry is they are now tripling down on incarn. They need to pull some of that power out of a long CD and put it into their general kit. Decrease the Ravage damage but increase the proc rate and still for the love of Malfurion make it interact with Raze. I want to love this tree but I have so many problems with it. Holding a Ravage proc to line up with a raze proc sounds like it would be immensely satisfying.
i think the clear winners are bear druids and warriors, since only bears just got buffed defensively on top of all offensive benefits thanks to Ursoc's Fury talent
Nobody is taking Ursoc's Fury in beta, because they neutered it with the HP boost and then cutting the talent in half. It is basically 1/4 as strong as it is in DF. Every tank is skipping it and after testing it on beta, I see why.
I immediately jumped at Deathbringer when I read the talents. I'mma main FDK. I haven't even bothered reading the Rider tree, I already know its the AOE tree, because of the automated Death and Decay. Deathbringer is the single target tank boy tree and it especially buffs the auto attack build with Dark Talons. I'm going DW Breath + AA build so it's like wow, my damage won't be nerfed unless I accidentally become meta, Breath just got buffed and it already does massive damage like wuttt. That Death's Messenger talent is bonkers, I use Lichborne a lot. I have no problem playing Breath, especially now with Icy Death Torrent. I played Breath in Legion as well.
I play druid since ever, especialy since we got the Guardian separated from feral , i think cata. This pulverize ability was still there. When ever I as tank had issue taking some frontal or unavoidable, i swapped to pulverize. Now on m+ when we trying progress 18ish. Pulverize actualy help me alot staying healer friendly(self sustaining tank). I would definitly make it aoe thing no doubt. But especialy on Tyra or Forti+ Bolster or Raging . it helps avoid some spiky dmg from big mobs or bosses. I want to stand up abit for Pulverize :D
I’d like it if my target constantly felt like they were head butting an angry nail when I tank on a prot warrior. I will say I’m probably going to go ahead and old yeller my shaman at this point. I don’t want to play resto so idk.
I think he just misspoke when talking about pulverize. No one ever tales it in mythic plus. Most people are saying bear will be pretty solid in m plus.
Kinda having trouble deciding between brew and prot warrior i love how much simpler brew has become but im still not sure i fully get how brews and elixirs work with stagger as for prot warrior i was one for a bit in s3 of DF fell in love with it but i really don't like how reliant we are on healers (even more so due to nerfs)and our magic mit is just.... not good be nice to just have a passive or something to help beef up our magic resistance all the time and have a self heal
Blizzard: We want to make healers role impactful again... Also blizzard: we want to make tanks roles less impactful. Now your just the stuediest dps of the four ans the slightly better choice foe your new healer overlord to chainheal during fights ...but you got more dps...because youe role is anout high dps....
I don’t understand why they can’t make it to where ravage proc off mangle all the time…plus make dreadful wounds into where bleeds heal for Druid of the claw guardians.
I'll be honest... I would change all of these damage buffs for how tanky I felt prior to the changes... I dont get the philosophy really... Nerf DPS trinkets for tanks because tanks did too much damage... nerf tanks survivability... Give tanks more damage again... when really only Prot Warr was lagging on Damage. Paladin, Monk, DK, VDH and Bear all did pretty ok damage... This is 100% a test by Blizz to see how little people actually care about being tanky and, I would rather tanky over glass cannon.
@@WoWatNight Absolutely but, it seems from all the tanks I get info from, they are giddy about these changes and seemingly forgot about how awful it will still feel to not have agency over your life. The concern for me is the haphazard philosophy change of nerfing DPS trinkets for tanks as they do too much damage, now tanks are cranking and they are buffing their damage for?... what reason? Only tank that had legitimate cause for upset over damage was Prot Warr. People like big number go up I get it... I like being the last alive keeping a pull alive and being the tank of the group, it shouldn't be but, it seems a hot take to say i would rather do half my damage for way more tankiness. If i wanted to pump meters, i would play DPS.
Hi, channel manager here. So glad you asked. TL;DR: It snowballs fast and Llarold explodes after doing mechanics. This pair of bosses has all kinds of fun ways to kill players. For starters, we were short two people and that severely affects the mechanics - and not in a good way. Second, players on boss 1 spawn red orbs and players on boss 2 spawn blue orbs. Everyone has to switch sides and soak the opposite color, which results in a debuff. If you are short people, someone has to take more than 1 stack of the debuff. Third, players explode at 3 orb debuff stacks - which happens fast when some players are dead and the overall team is missing two people. Fourth, if players are hit by mechanics, they spawn extra orbs which need to be soaked or they explode and debuff EVERYONE. Fifth, Llarold explodes after doing mechanics.
Ruthless Aggression is such a stupid DPS talent. Melee is almost zero of Ferals damage. You could increase it by 200% and it would still probably be a stupid talent.
Why is everyone mad at needing to play better. I just see a lot of people angry that they can't pull half the dungeon on a +whatever and do not need any healing. Oooooh nooooo...i might not get keystone master the first week of the season because i have to scale now!!!!! Oooohhhh nooooo! Rotate your defenses and use your abilities at appropriate times. Not a big deal, im coming back to tanking with these survivability nerfs. Tanking will be fun again...
@WoWatNight yea, I think it's a good change. The top players will still clear high keys. It just promotes skill expression. They thought they were the carries in DF, but the game was carrying them. Thanks for the vid, vdh and bear druid are now off the shelf.
@@WoWatNight im sorry - i was just being cheeky with the crendor comment lol - But i really do enjoy your vids - One of my fav YT's to watch for Warcraft
@@WoWatNight Sure, but they took like 20-30% of tanks damage (relative to dps), and are giving back SOME of it. We are still going to be proportionally lower than we were in DF. Happy to get a buff, but it feels a bit low.
@@WoWatNight This is like when Amazon raises its prices right before a sale and you end up paying more for something than you would if you had bought it a week before the sale. Sure, a sale is good, but what they did is just make us LESS bad off.
Thats it we tanks its about living and taking damage. I get helps the group but yeah it seems like all the guides and everything else for tanks is all about how to do dps etc
Agreed. Maybe dps should have less defensive. Not sure why I would be happy to do that job of tank rely on healer and get flamed for dps numbers on top of everything
It's a big deal as several tanks get a significant amount of healing from leech effects. I imagine this change is a bigger deal for DH, Bear and to a lesser extent blood bc of this. Also tanks to better damage makes a difference in pushing keys. Things dying faster means faster times and thr enemies having less chances to kill you.
@@WoWatNight I agree with them. We need better focus on mitigating damage in a fun way. Giving tanks more damage doesn't help the overall issue of tanking and might push the design the wrong way
![Blood Death Knight Guide [TWW Prepatch]](/img/n.gif)
it will feel so good pumping on the meters on my bdk in the 2 globals before im dead to the 1st pack of 4 mobs
@@HealthAfter30 right lol, it’s insane how much dmg we take vs how much we can self sustain. Crazy af they think that these changes are okay
It's not good!
@@lil_unholy7862a high level tank player named Yoda has a video of him soloing the first pull of NW+12 for 6 minutes and killing the pack alone.
Self sustain is still very achievable its just much less forgiving.
@@GrantBrown-sp2tg no I seen that video, but what you are missing is the gear differential he had on the normal player, he was decked out mean while I was ilvl 613
@@lil_unholy7862 afaik he is also locked at 610 like everyone else has been on beta for +10 keys and above. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
30% buff for Prot Warriors. Let's go!
YEEAAAAAH
Maybe we won't suck next season after all?
@@captainpandabear1422 LOL prepare to KITE hard. will have LESSER tanks this expansion. lmao
@@justsaying3176 Yeah, may have to actually take that peircing howl talent now.
Some people in the comments section seem to miss an important point of tank damage boost which is threat generation, especially snap threat generation. Although as a tank your average damage output per dungeon is not extremely relevant, unless in very high key scenarios where every bit counts, your ability to pull a pack easily and quickly, say one or two globals, without losing threat to your dps is quite crucial, especially when pulling multiple packs.
Unless blizzard changes threat modifiers for tanks, which I do not foresee them doing, tank damage buffs across the board should all be well received imo, making it easier to generate threat. The BDK 10% seems redundant but I am assuming that is becuase all tanks got %dmg buffs and they gave BDK slightly lower one for balance.
That is true.
Thx for keeping us up to date
We're happy to help!
DoC look like it might be as good if not better than Elune. Thankfully Moonfire is in the bear aura so the nerfs and buffs cancel out although its still a 20% buff to an arcane thrash.
My only worry is they are now tripling down on incarn. They need to pull some of that power out of a long CD and put it into their general kit. Decrease the Ravage damage but increase the proc rate and still for the love of Malfurion make it interact with Raze. I want to love this tree but I have so many problems with it. Holding a Ravage proc to line up with a raze proc sounds like it would be immensely satisfying.
It definitely needs work
i think the clear winners are bear druids and warriors, since only bears just got buffed defensively on top of all offensive benefits thanks to Ursoc's Fury talent
That's true.
Nobody is taking Ursoc's Fury in beta, because they neutered it with the HP boost and then cutting the talent in half. It is basically 1/4 as strong as it is in DF. Every tank is skipping it and after testing it on beta, I see why.
heck yeah! thanks for the quick video so I didnt have to sound out all the words!
Np!
ah yes yes thats what my prot pally needed
YEP
If Tear Down the Mighty made Pulverize apply in AOE, it would suddenly become interesting.
Yes.
Monk is love. Monk is life.
Oh yes
Im really undergeared on my bm monk but mobs kept getting peeled off me by the dps, definitely feels needed just to keep threat
If you're not doing much damage that's going to happen
I immediately jumped at Deathbringer when I read the talents. I'mma main FDK. I haven't even bothered reading the Rider tree, I already know its the AOE tree, because of the automated Death and Decay. Deathbringer is the single target tank boy tree and it especially buffs the auto attack build with Dark Talons. I'm going DW Breath + AA build so it's like wow, my damage won't be nerfed unless I accidentally become meta, Breath just got buffed and it already does massive damage like wuttt. That Death's Messenger talent is bonkers, I use Lichborne a lot.
I have no problem playing Breath, especially now with Icy Death Torrent. I played Breath in Legion as well.
Gonna be fun
Busss!!! Tank!!!! we are no longer walls we are brick buses...
Crashing and thrashing
I play druid since ever, especialy since we got the Guardian separated from feral , i think cata. This pulverize ability was still there. When ever I as tank had issue taking some frontal or unavoidable, i swapped to pulverize. Now on m+ when we trying progress 18ish. Pulverize actualy help me alot staying healer friendly(self sustaining tank). I would definitly make it aoe thing no doubt. But especialy on Tyra or Forti+ Bolster or Raging . it helps avoid some spiky dmg from big mobs or bosses. I want to stand up abit for Pulverize :D
Understood
Interesting approach to tanks in TWW so far. Let’s hope they don’t undo this change
Best of luck to us all.
I’d like it if my target constantly felt like they were head butting an angry nail when I tank on a prot warrior. I will say I’m probably going to go ahead and old yeller my shaman at this point. I don’t want to play resto so idk.
Smash it with a hammahhh!
why would bear druid not be good in m+?
I think he just misspoke when talking about pulverize. No one ever tales it in mythic plus. Most people are saying bear will be pretty solid in m plus.
That's correct. Bears are fine in m+. They were better before the Moonfire nerfs, but still solid.
Kinda having trouble deciding between brew and prot warrior i love how much simpler brew has become but im still not sure i fully get how brews and elixirs work with stagger as for prot warrior i was one for a bit in s3 of DF fell in love with it but i really don't like how reliant we are on healers (even more so due to nerfs)and our magic mit is just.... not good be nice to just have a passive or something to help beef up our magic resistance all the time and have a self heal
tough choice
Blizzard: We want to make healers role impactful again...
Also blizzard: we want to make tanks roles less impactful. Now your just the stuediest dps of the four ans the slightly better choice foe your new healer overlord to chainheal during fights ...but you got more dps...because youe role is anout high dps....
It's a wild ride
God, thank you for this comment, I thought I was one of the only ones who is bewildered by these changes.
they almost run out of buff for prot paladin...
Indeed
I was leaning towards maining bm monk over prot war but the hero talents for bm seem sooo boring in comparison to prot war
Ouch
Am I the silly one here? That Demonsurge change looks very reasonable to me.
eh
I don’t understand why they can’t make it to where ravage proc off mangle all the time…plus make dreadful wounds into where bleeds heal for Druid of the claw guardians.
Ravage proccing from Mangle instead of AA's has been our feedback from day 1! It would be better!
Frost lets me pretend to be Elsa from Disney's Frozen... I'm a pretty pretty DK!!!
👌
as someone going for CE and not enjoying m+ at a super high level. What tanks would you pick in my place? purely focussed on strength for raiding
Too much pressure
I'll be honest... I would change all of these damage buffs for how tanky I felt prior to the changes... I dont get the philosophy really... Nerf DPS trinkets for tanks because tanks did too much damage... nerf tanks survivability... Give tanks more damage again... when really only Prot Warr was lagging on Damage. Paladin, Monk, DK, VDH and Bear all did pretty ok damage... This is 100% a test by Blizz to see how little people actually care about being tanky and, I would rather tanky over glass cannon.
A balance is best
@@WoWatNight Absolutely but, it seems from all the tanks I get info from, they are giddy about these changes and seemingly forgot about how awful it will still feel to not have agency over your life.
The concern for me is the haphazard philosophy change of nerfing DPS trinkets for tanks as they do too much damage, now tanks are cranking and they are buffing their damage for?... what reason? Only tank that had legitimate cause for upset over damage was Prot Warr.
People like big number go up I get it... I like being the last alive keeping a pull alive and being the tank of the group, it shouldn't be but, it seems a hot take to say i would rather do half my damage for way more tankiness. If i wanted to pump meters, i would play DPS.
How did you get BLASTED for 232 million damage? lol
ua-cam.com/video/2MkfwzFwqdI/v-deo.html
Hi, channel manager here. So glad you asked. TL;DR: It snowballs fast and Llarold explodes after doing mechanics.
This pair of bosses has all kinds of fun ways to kill players. For starters, we were short two people and that severely affects the mechanics - and not in a good way. Second, players on boss 1 spawn red orbs and players on boss 2 spawn blue orbs. Everyone has to switch sides and soak the opposite color, which results in a debuff. If you are short people, someone has to take more than 1 stack of the debuff. Third, players explode at 3 orb debuff stacks - which happens fast when some players are dead and the overall team is missing two people. Fourth, if players are hit by mechanics, they spawn extra orbs which need to be soaked or they explode and debuff EVERYONE. Fifth, Llarold explodes after doing mechanics.
Ruthless Aggression is such a stupid DPS talent. Melee is almost zero of Ferals damage. You could increase it by 200% and it would still probably be a stupid talent.
It does fuel the proc rate of Ravage
Druid of the claw needs jesus
Yup.
Who cares if you fall over if you do damage!!! Tanking is still going to feel like shit these changes do nothing to make that any different.
They make you do more damage, that's not nothing.
Why is everyone mad at needing to play better. I just see a lot of people angry that they can't pull half the dungeon on a +whatever and do not need any healing. Oooooh nooooo...i might not get keystone master the first week of the season because i have to scale now!!!!! Oooohhhh nooooo! Rotate your defenses and use your abilities at appropriate times. Not a big deal, im coming back to tanking with these survivability nerfs. Tanking will be fun again...
Maybe they want the game to play itself :)
@WoWatNight yea, I think it's a good change. The top players will still clear high keys. It just promotes skill expression. They thought they were the carries in DF, but the game was carrying them. Thanks for the vid, vdh and bear druid are now off the shelf.
Your voice sounds like Crendor
Not an insult... But also not a compliment.
Your videos are top notch btws.
Now that's a compliment.
We re-listened to him after some time and gotta say... you might want to get your ears checked :)
We appreciate the real compliment.
Yeah... I don't hear it 😂
@@WoWatNight im sorry - i was just being cheeky with the crendor comment lol - But i really do enjoy your vids - One of my fav YT's to watch for Warcraft
Finally, I can pvp without trolling
No you will still be trolling
@@BasedChadman you will definitely still be trolling
@@BryanTurner-j8b But trolling in style
:)
Absolutely trolling with 0 style.
Ugh, this is not to make tanks happier. This is to fix the fact that dps were pulling threat really easily.
Llarold is a tank and he is happy to do more damage.
@@WoWatNight Sure, but they took like 20-30% of tanks damage (relative to dps), and are giving back SOME of it. We are still going to be proportionally lower than we were in DF.
Happy to get a buff, but it feels a bit low.
@@WoWatNight This is like when Amazon raises its prices right before a sale and you end up paying more for something than you would if you had bought it a week before the sale.
Sure, a sale is good, but what they did is just make us LESS bad off.
If you say so. More damage is always more fun.
@@WoWatNight Sure, but if I take 50% of your damage then give it back and call it a buff..... are you super stoked?
1st
wow
who cares about tank damage, if i cared i would play dps. The defensive nerfs are the issue
Thats it we tanks its about living and taking damage. I get helps the group but yeah it seems like all the guides and everything else for tanks is all about how to do dps etc
Agreed. Maybe dps should have less defensive. Not sure why I would be happy to do that job of tank rely on healer and get flamed for dps numbers on top of everything
We care
It's a big deal as several tanks get a significant amount of healing from leech effects. I imagine this change is a bigger deal for DH, Bear and to a lesser extent blood bc of this.
Also tanks to better damage makes a difference in pushing keys. Things dying faster means faster times and thr enemies having less chances to kill you.
@@WoWatNight I agree with them. We need better focus on mitigating damage in a fun way. Giving tanks more damage doesn't help the overall issue of tanking and might push the design the wrong way
thank you
Welcome!