Mandolele? Mini 12 String? Who Cares! Just Make Music
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2023
- Enough with labels. Here's a little stringed instrument I made. Final video in a 4-part series:
Part1: • Designing a Guitar Tha...
Part2: • Making Mini Acoustic G...
Part 3: • Making Mini Acoustic G...
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be good,
Tim - Навчання та стиль
Cmon that's a Uka-Sway-le
Oh, that's pretty good...
Making nontraditional instruments with more or less strings is fun but then it’s about the learning curve of actually playing them. A little like alternative tunings. Keep pushing the outside of the envelope. It’s inspiring and instructive.
This is why I think more often than not it's good to choose a format that already exists, for instance Yamaha makes a 6 string guitarlelle that is tuned like a guitar only it's a fourth higher. So it gets a different sound but it's easy to play things on it and get tabs etc because it is a known tuning system. If you make some weird one of a kind thing that isn't like anything else you're totally on your own for figuring out how to play anything on it.
That has been my contention for years: stick with the status quo - and alternate tunings break my brain a little. Then I see seasoned EADGBE players like Pat Metheny do amazing things on alternate tuned instruments and younger musicians with little regard for standard tuning doing different, also do amazing things (including many of my clients)... It makes me start to think that this is a roadblock I should learn to clear. Not necessarily as a player but more in the "wokeness" of my attitude. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong or I have the right to legislate or judge it.
The brightness playing the 8 string acoustically vs on the pickup was wild. These are such beautiful experiments and I'm so glad you share them
Yea, magnetic pickups definitely "warm things up" - really noticeable on this instrument.
Tips and tricks for bridge application from an acoustic guitar factory: the position of the bridge is laser-etched into the top (just the outer corners and a center crosshair, and not all the way through). In the finish department, there are adhesive clear plastic masks in the exact shape of the bridge which are applied before any finish is put on. These masks stay on all throughout finishing. Once it's time for bridge glue-up, they're scored on the edges and peeled off from underneath using a double-edged X-acto blade (we don't have said blades in my part of the factory so if we get one returned that needs the bridge mask removed, usually we'll score it with a single-edge X-acto and then lift underneath with something akin to a sharpened feeler gauge). Once the mask is off, you're left with a perfectly positioned area of raw wood that the bridge can fit into neatly and be glued down securely.
Gotta say, these are a very charming and folksy pair of instruments you've invented here. I love when people push the envelope and take chordophones to new frontiers. This 12-string mandolitar (or sexto mandolo?), I'll admit, I was skeptical it would even be practical. But if anybody is able to do it, it's the guy who's already completely out of the box. Well done!
There's a box around here? Where is it? Lol. Good tips! When I started making acoustics, I laser cut the string-through holes and marked the bridge, but I found in my construction methods, there was a chance of that mark being just a little off when the guitar was assembled. I think my next step is to make a acrylic or mdf template/jig that slides over the neck and positions the bridge to it.
those dollar bill pickups are still so damn impressive. I can't believe how good the 8 string sounds through one.
I'm proud of them. But it's $2 bills, not a measily $1 bill. I ain't no cheapskate :) You can get one at newperspectivesmusic.com!
Two cool experiments! I first saw a short scale 12 string electric a bunch of years ago and the sound was always really interesting. There’s something really special about double course instruments in all the variations for me!
It's cool to see this project getting completed! I was actually looking for a 5 string 20 inch scale mandocello type instrument for a long time. Found a builder in New Hampshire to make it for me at a good price, but it's cool to see other builders tackling similar projects
tim sway
We can just call it a Nylon 12 Stringer, the Nylon Strings make it so much easier so you don't have to push down as hard on them.
Tune the 8 string guitar in 5ths on the lower 6 strings and 4ths on the higher 2. It doesn’t matter what the note actually is, chord shapes and fingerings will be familiar.
Going from 5th to 4th and back to 5th is a mind bender.
Rock n’ Roll Tipple. Thanks! Happy holidays! 🤶🎅🏻🙂😎
Massively cool builds! 😊
That sounds amazing, wow
Great video. The weird is so much more interesting. Cool and unique guitars or whatever you call them. Mahalo for sharing! 🙂❤️🙏
Well done Tim & I like how you are branching out in the guitar universe! How about making an 8 string Banjo? Now that would be cool!
you order it, I'll make it for you! lol
awesome builds! side note: bought the center sqwayre a bit ago and I'm loving it.. kudos!
I use mine a million times a day. cheers!
You are amazing Tim! Love your vids.
Very cool Tim. Like both of them.
Man, i love those experiments, both of them sound and look kinda similar to a ronrroco but i think they are their own kind of instrument
there are so many stringed instruments from around the world in varying string lengths, numbers, tuning... I'm definitely always starting at the "guitar" building block, but taking the centuries of lutes into consideration, too.
Both these guitmandoukes sound pretty great. Amazing resonance on the 12-string, both acoustic and with the pickup. The 8-string setup sounded a little like a bouzouki to me, but maybe I'm just projecting. Looking forward to the next experiment! Thanks for sharing!
I've "almost" made a few bouzoukis but never sealed the deal. Some day!
I'd call these the Octovibe and the Duodecovibe. Just perfect for "Going to California" and "Over the hills and far away". Who knows, you might get a call from Jimmy or John Paul. 🤞
stringing adventures, very awesome
yoo in the tuning with the low B and the high A, that means you could play renaissance lute repertoire on it
The 8 string reminds me of a north American tiple (not to be confused with the various instruments in Latin America also called tiples). They usually had 10 metal strings in 4 courses. They were pretty cool, but not many still around.
The dollar foil pickup sounded really nice! :O
thanks! I'm proud of that pickup. I sell them at newperspectivesmusic.com and you can put one on almost anything with very little modification.
Nice one TS!!! I'm putting together the parts to build a lap steel. A little nicer than the 2x4 ones. But still kind of simple. Love the idea of make an instrument for the musician so they can get the sound they want. To me that is where "individual" comes in.
Hi Tim;
12 string instruments have twice the stress on the top, bridge and saddle as a 6 string instrument. You will probably want to use extra light strings on your metal strings or all nylon strings. I really like the look of the instrument. It has a very nice sound too for as small as it is.
yea, these were both designed to be nylon, but I thought I'd try to get away with some steel strings on the prototype. They've been on a few weeks now. So far, so good.
tim sway 15:28 A Nylon 12 String Parlor Guitar (or 12 String Classical Guitar) which I think would be a great name based on its function. It's easier to play than a Standard 12 String Guitar because you don't have to push down as Hard on the Strings to get a Clean sound.
Very cool.
I’d love to hear the 8 string uke through a guitar amp, especially with distortion….
now i have a new use for my laser level. that is if the batts havent ruptured and deestroyed it from the inside.
You're living the dream Tim, I will get there eventually!
Cheers man, I think you might be there already :)
@@timsway indeed, I need to remind myself of that.
Very interesting sound! I like it!
3:48-4:15
Boston and Led Zeppelin had a baby.
Cool, actually.
I'm telling ya, mad scientist! 😊 love your stuff Tim! Please keep on being you! You rock dude!
Thanks bro
Your new interments are very tiple related to me. I might suggest Justin Johnson as someone who could give your interments a go and likely make something happen with them. He's got a video of him playing a shovel and doing a fantastic job with it. Maybe a collaboration with him might be in order.
This is awesome. Getting a Led Zeppelin vibe with the sound and really really like how it looks.
I think both instruments turned out great. For the bridge, would making the dowels longer so that they went through the back of the instrument too increase the longevity and stability of it and also perhaps add some subtle audio effects due to the dowels vibrating in the sound chamber?
Or is that a daft idea???
I think that's a really fun idea! Like dual sound posts. Let me mull that over :)
12th subscriber upward thumb; 66th fan-follow view about to happen... here we go. 8-string options could include octave mandolin or bouzouki... Could be cool.
Hmmmm Bouzouki......
Nifty projects as always.
A Nylon-12 string Guitar & you could add bridge beads to make them into ball end strings
wow Tim.. very nice buid.. 😊
Hermoso instrumento!!!!!!
When you started putting that magnetic pickup on the 8-string I still thought you have nylon strings paired with steel octave strings on it and I thought "it will pick up only those steel strings". After a while i realized that you had all steel strings on it, but I started thinking of an instrument with nylon strings and steel octave strings... Then add bright sounding magnetic pickup (picking up only those steel octave strings) and dark sounding piezo system (picking up all of them but mainly low end). Add a balance control between the two and it could be used as tone control, but it would work a bit differently than traditional tone control.
I had the same thought. separate outputs. lol
People will pick that up to noodle, lovely build.😊
100% what it's for :)
Funnily enough I was struggling with an 8 string for Years, and it wasn’t until I put it in a weird open tuning like I was arguably more used to than Standard, and it made way more sense
Standard Tuning sucks for Rock Guitar, imo
It WORKS
But altered tunings (not just a downtuned Drop tuning, things like Open C, or on my 8, FCFACGCE) just seem to be More Conducive to it
I think there's a lot of room for that sort of experimentation. I'm pretty in to "big" chords and stuck on traditional tuning to get all those 7s and 9s, but yea, for rock. ehy not tune it for easy major/minor access?
The first string layout of the 8-string reminds me of the 9-string Epiphone acoustic my dad briefly owned. It had the three high strings doubled, though the person he bought it from only had it strung for 6 (they probably liked the extra wideness of the fretboard). Hearing yours in that configuration gives the impression of a 12-string with the mid chime from the two courses. For me that really makes me question "do you need all doubled strings for that perfect 12-string chime, and if not, which ones can you leave out?"
that's what I want to find out :)
BC Rich's Bich model is a 10-string, with only the 1st through 4th strings doubled (so the bass strings retained clarity through distortion). I feel like the question isn't "what can you leave out", but rather "what happens if you do and how can you use it?"
Alvarez does a baritone with the middle strings doubled, so 8 strings.
Such a unique version of a guitar.
I'd argue that a ukulele is a guitar - it's predecessor, the Cavaquinho, is classified as a guitar. A mandolin I'd define by the bowl body as opposed to the figure of 8 design of guitars). If this is tuned an octave higher than a guitar, then maybe alto-guitar might be the appropriate name (alto meaning higher)? Naming members of the guitar family is difficult because the six strings means that a normal guitar (Say E3 to E5) covers basically the entire classical male vocal range. If you tune an octave higher, then you are roughly covering the classical female range. A guitar roughly sits alongside the cello of the violin family, whereas if you tune higher, then you are roughly in the range of a violin and viola duo. So Guitarin or Guitin might work, although they look very strange to me.
Oh, it's tuned in the same octaves as a guitar? So it's a super short scale guitar then, easy :p (I've got a project in the back of my mind of a 350mm/13.75" alto-guitar, so my mind instantly went there)
The client build is definitely just a small 12 string guitar, regular range. The other thing? Well, I guess I need to decide how it will be tuned first... lol
Tres slick!
Have you ever tried using a trapeze tailpiece to remove the string tension from the bridge/top?
I have and do like them, but I find them more challenging on flat tops with basically straight, flat stringing. Not enough tension on the bridge unless the neck is angled up a bit y;know? Check out my acoustic guitar build from clear acrylic and you can really REALLY see, those forces at play: ua-cam.com/video/_9sX_ROSQAk/v-deo.htmlsi=sgcgVBV_6M33wsLX
I have to experiment with nylon strings on my cigar box guitar
recommended. They won't work with magnetic pickups, only piezo, of course.
Oh wow, I like that 8 string way more than I thought I would. Especially the last setup with doubles. How much would you charge for something like this?
Ya know, I started a small body short scale 12 string a while back and never got around to finishing it. Gourd body cut out, elm neck from a pallet, spruce top from scraps, salvaged rosewood fretboard are all roughed to shape. I even bought a set of tuning machines for a slotted headstock. I don't know why I never got around to finishing it....
Well, I think it's time... The neck is a little wide on the 8 string doubled up version but I kinda like it like that as I can never fit my big fingers on ukes and mandolins...
It must have been a real pain to figure out the bridge placement for proper intonation on all of those strings.
I just located it like I would on a 6 string. 12 strings aren't perfectly intonated which is part of the sound, I suppose...
hey Tim I just came up with a really idea for your next project you should try making an electric standing bass chello
that was one of the first instruments I ever built! lol Back in the late 1990s because I couldn't afford and didn't have the room for a full size upright bass.
JUSTO & PERFEITO...............
BRASIL...........
I love the body shape! Do you think the steel string instrument would be able to withstand the - I imagine - higher tension of an octave string configuration? I guess the small body wouldn't be resonant enough for the lower tones, but then it could be tuned something like f b e a instad (I don't know how to write the specific pitches, but you might know what I mean)
I think it could handle a lot more tension thatn I've put on it so far. Short necks don't succumb to bowing as much, yknow?
@@timsway uh, that totally makes sense now you say it 😬
I just figured that shorter necks are often slimmer, but it stands to reason that a lever mechanism effect (or whatever it's called in English) is at play
6:12 Plays 3 Octave E Scale
In one position!!
@@timsway Wow very cool, I honestly wish they made Ball End Versions of all the Nylon strings for easier installation but they do make bridge beads that allow the Tie End strings to become Ball End Versions. I noticed on the Nylon 12 String Guitar you changed the Plain Nylon G String to a Wound G for better intonation & it's an NYL019W.
The spacing of the strings G through to the low E need to close up more or the B and high E strings need their doppelganger strings to form a closer relationship as it appears that the b string is too near the G string. I am not paying the money and for all I know that may be a quirk of the customer's playing and they have requested it that way 🤷♂️. Regardless of that both guitars look nice and have the sound that you would expect. A great job 👏
Like deployed 👍
TBH I will probably carve another nut and bridge for it to address some of those issues before I ship it. I treated each set of strings independently as the thicker strings need more room to vibrate than steel strings... It's like the saying "If it looks straight, it is straight." Now That I've got it playing proper, I need to make it "look" proper.
@@timsway I already suspected that you were already on it, such is the worm ethic that I have come to know 🔥
* omg!* ' work' not bloody worm, fat fingers and blind eyes combo coming into full effect ☺️
You may actually have found a good design for a cuban très or cuatro !
very similar size and scale
microtonal series when?
I did make a microtonal feretboard for a client once. You order it, I'll make and film it! :)
It’s similar to a charango
I identify as an erhu.
You do you, erhu :)
Lots of buzzing...
I can't fit my hands in those little frets!