I’ve been using the loudness wars database to find albums on CD with the best dynamic range and they are almost always original recording mixes and mastering. I have purchased several albums that I also own in high resolution and the sound quality is noticeably better and less harsh. I’ve been engaged in this hobby for 10 years and I feel that I’ve been duped by Hi-Res audio. Hi-Res is great for recently released music, but Hi-Res releases of the albums I’ve tested so far are still dynamically compressed enough to sound harsh at times. As mentioned on the Darko Audio podcast, it took digital playback gear awhile to catch up but now that DACs and filters are for the most part very good and affordable the superior sound quality of original mixes are even more apparent. I want to say thank you John for helping to open my eyes and ears to enjoy my music even more.
I am happy using my iPad Pro (that I use for everything else, including work) via USB C to my external DAC with Hi-res capabilities. And this saves me around EUR 800 that would only buy me some cool VU meters in the EverSolo and a remote/control app, along with the risk of it becoming obsolete due to the lack of Android updates in the long run. I would replace my iPad anyway in the future, so it isn't really a question for me (and I believe for many iPad users). Great video tough, as usual!!!
Thank you for continuing to beat the drum over dynamic range and compression issues in mastering. For years I have reluctantly turned my back on a lot of good music that is poorly mastered and instead often found myself honing in on less ideal music but that sounds dynamic. It actually drives me batty.
Most important thing I took from this, which is very true, is that indeed hi res audio means nothing without a proper mastered album/track which in quality varies by a lot
Btw, if someone already owns iPad Pro with Apple Smart Keyboard, they can charge the iPad using the keyboard USB C port and connect iPad to external DAC through iPad USB C port simultaneously. No 3rd party dongles or splitters required. I wouldn’t recommend purchasing both solely for AM streaming as it’s too pricey for the purpose, but it’s a good use case if you already own the combo anyway. Oh, and I connect my iPad to Cambridge Audio CXA 61 amplifier via USB.
I'd never considered mastering and dynamic range seriously until encountering your content reviewing it, so thank you for continuing to point out it's significant impact!
THANKS JOHN 👍 FOR EXPLAINING IN UNDERSTANDABLE TERMS…JUST HOW NICHE THIS IS AND HOW THE QUALITY OF THE MUSIC IS MORE IMPORTANT…I PERSONALLY CAN RELAX 🤗 AND JUST ENJOY THE MUSIC 🎼🎹🎺🎷
I am very grateful for your explanations on this technical side of Hi-Res audio transmission via Bluetooth, Apple and Android software and devices from them.
Thanks for elaborating in regard of the 48kHz downsample/upsample.. I really don't care about high res but I really like when a device manages a direct integer for 44.1 and 48kHz.
Just as a starter, you have become my go-to channel (and information source…yes, I also read your website) about audio, and the fact that you’ve made this series of videos about Apple Music is amazing. But…IMO it was de video about Dynamic Range that “woke me up”, I think most people in the audio world is aware of it, but the way in which you present it was just…”in your face”😂. The end of this video sums it all, the mastering has the bigger weight!…and as a side note, I’m planning to become supporter after I graduate…you know 😅. Thanks!!
Hmm, if you already have an iPad [lots of people do] and your amp contains a decent inbuilt DAC [like a Hegel does] then Apple Music streaming does come at the very reasonable price of a Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter from Apple at £45. The adapter lets you power the iPad whilst also streaming via USB.
But you still have to pay for the iPad at some point. It isn't $0. But hey, I'm repeating myself because this was covered in the video. Happy listening!
Hmm, but I already bought an iPad [to do many other tasks] years ago, so adding the adapter for £45 is a no brainer. Of course if you have to go out and buy an iPad just for streaming its different - but [at the risk of repeating myself] lots of people already have an iPad@@DarkoAudio
@@DarkoAudio Yes an iPad isn’t cheap but the Main difference is that the other two only play music, where the iPad is also a compact computer. Playing Music is in this case a Nice to have add-on
I am amazed that people has 3 or 5 thousands dollars amp (and very likely also own similar priced speakers) argues about why should have a 800 dollars dedicated music streamer/dac. Is streamer a new thing today?
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate how in depth you go into these things, and mostly how I appreciate you giving all the correct information rather than glossing over differences that "most people" aren't going to notice. It's refreshingly respectful for you to give the information as accurately as you can so that people can decide for themselves what parts matter to them (as opposed to what many reviewers seems to do, which is try to sound absolute about things because that is what they imagine an authoritative voice should do). It's very helpful to hear, for instance, that although you don't particularly care to chase hi-res audio for your own listening pleasure, it is incorrect and misguided to call something hi-res or bit perfect just because it can upsample and output greater than CD quality resolution. Thank you for being reliable by putting forth care and effort. It's noticed.
I agree that the mastering quality is far more important than the bit rate, etc. Thanks for the information. Btw, when does the interview with pbthal air?
I use my old Google pixel phone with usb audio pro app and chord mojo dac into my Hifi stream amazon music the high resolution is cheap and sounds fantastic.
I know that this is not the subject here, but i want to share with you my discovers: Here are my top ten hifi listenings: ALBUMS: 1. PATRICIA BARBER: Café blue or Clique! (32 bits or 4xDSD, a standard on hifi shows); 2. SHELBY LYNNE: Just a little lovin' (so in love...); 3. DIANA KRALL: Turn up the quiet (her voice so well recorded, microphone near her mouth...); 4. NILS LOFGREN: Acoustic live (the guitars so well recorded, another standard on hifi shows); 5. KEITH GREENINGER: Close to the soul (a pure DSD record); SONGS: 6. FINK: Perfect darkness (the subtlety of the percussion, the soft acoustic guitar, the relaxed voice... a delight!); 7. BRIAN BROMBERG: Elephants on ice skates (the bass and drum... just wow!); 8. GHOST RIDER: Make us stronger (a spectacular song for everyones who want to know the power of bass/electronic); 9. YELLO: Till tomorrow (bass and trumpet... at their best!); 10. THE FAIRFIELD FOUR: These bones (just for the fun to listen the lower bass voice you will ever listen to! 100% sure). Have fun!
So this may not be the most glamorous approach but I’ve been using a long USB cable from the couch (with my iPhone) to the DAC and I hide it under a rug. Just another idea for those working with Apple Music. Really liked the comparisons of solutions at the end John!
The not hi res you get under your current circumstances is still really good. Enjoy it and don't pull your hair out. A speaker upgrade has far more impact than chasing the tiny differences between lossless and hi res. I have spent a ton of money figuring out I shouldn't have spent a ton of money. Enjoy your setup.
As a service I really like Apple Music, and it pains me a bit that I need to have a Qobuz subscription as well to integrate streaming audio with my hifi system. I think we mustn’t stress the need for hi-res audio from Apple Music, but just the need for easy/easier integration of AM in our audio setup, hi-res or not. That probably won’t ever happen, but if it would, it surely would mean trouble for Tidal, Qobuz and the likes of them.
JD makes a comment regarding iPads not being free. I am using an old iPad Air , purchased in 2015, specifically as a steamer , connected to an external Dac and Naim Amp. Battery is getting low but leave it permanently plugged in to mains. (Could replace battery for £100). It works superbly and having been purchased 8 years ago does not owe me much. Latest Apple update installed today (15.8). Highly recommended use of old iPad.
It is also worth noting that playing apple music direct from Eversolo to DAC vs Ipad to DAC via usb sounds significantly better in all aspects. I had experimented with this for hours today switching back and forth and the eversolo just sounds so much better on every track I tested. The only reason I kept on trying the ipad direct into the dac option was to convince myself I dont need the eversolo so I can sell it however the sound quality from the ipad just sounds so lifeless, narrow soundstage, less separation, less dynamics. Unfortunately I am keeping the eversolo until I can find a cheaper alternative. However I do wonder If I had an ipad with a usb C output vs lighting if it would sound any better.
while having a better source is always welcome. if you have good equiptment the source quality, if you take anything atleast decent is so good these days. it really is a minimal factor. Just get Speakers and room right. Amp can help as well. If you nail these ur at 95%+ already. You can only gain minimal gains later. That being said. An apple tv with apple music subscription and enabled high quality source material and there u are. Having the best audio quality avaiable. If you are someone who wants bit perfect output. You can do it either with a iPhone or a Mac instead. They either allow u to change output format or adjust it depending on what is currently played. But u cant hear that anyway. Theres no single system in the world where u can hear the diffrence between 24bit/48khz and 24bit/192khz. Its just beyond both, human hearing and our ability to reproduce sound. So thinking about it or chasing it will just draw u away from what matters. Speakers / Placement / Room. and as said, having bad amps is bad as well, obviously.
The difference is you get an iPad for 10 years you can use for things other than audio. High end dacs and streamers dont really make sense when an Ipad or Mac Mini can handle it better with more versatility
Technically with good home router you can assign secondary network for eversolo or Miio, therefore they will be isolated from your home network reducing security concerns.
I'm inclined to believe that Apple might not prioritize high-resolution audio support over Bluetooth, even with upcoming standards. Instead, they're likely to develop a proprietary solution that ties closely to their hardware ecosystem. They might even redefine what 'high-resolution' means by introducing distinct features and definitions-perhaps something like "Spatial Quality"-to set it apart as uniquely Apple.
Hi John. I love this series. Here is my current "solution" to play Apple Music through my PS Audio Sprout 100. From my listening position, using my MacBook Air, I open Finder, connect to and screen share with my Mac Mini, in which I open Apple Music and play music. The Mac Mini is connected to the PS Audio Sprout 100 via USB cable. This way I can avoid Bluetooth, but still this is not an ideal situation.
I feel like John always does the Eversolo a little dirty. The Eversolo can also work as a music server/cd ripper. It's was a big feature that caused me to buy it in the end. Should have included that when complimenting the Fiio
Doing it dirty? Nope. I also sailed past many of the FiiO's more niche features to make sure that the video didn't run off track. This video's focus was Apple Music running on those devices and their general utility and not the CD ripping and local storage bay on the Eversolo; or the 2 x balanced XLR headphone outputs, variable USB output, external display hookups, IR remote, mini-keyboard control, SoundCloud, Mixcloud, Deezer, Amazon Music HD, Roon ARC or Plex playback available to the FiiO.
@@DarkoAudio A 'litte' dirty John, little being the operative word here. I understand your point in not including all features to maintain the flow of the video however I thought it pertinent to state that particular feature when commenting on the FiiOs ability to use an SD drive for offline playback. It felt a 'little' dirty not to state the Eversolo can also do this. It gives the impression it can't. Either way, I'm a fan, I really like and enjoy your content and my comments do not come from a place of consumer biass, hatred or spite. It was just an observation I found and decided to comment!
I could see that -- and it's why I replied. ;) I think anyone watching my dedicated Eversolo review video would know what it can and can't do. The FiiO got the nod for the 'offline playback' point in this video because that's how Srajan at 6moons uses his and it's how I would use it if it were forced offline. And it also got the nod because, per my dedicated Eversolo video, I think the FiiO is the better sounding unit once the external PSU is added (which then makes it exactly the same price as the Eversolo).
I am old but I can definitely hear hi res music and cd quality is the best regardless . I like the convenience of streaming and my hearing gravitates to hi res music, I feel more comfortable listening to it and I can listen for longer period of time as it is more comfortable to listen to and I am not straining to find the detail.
A friend built me some pentacon to XLR and to trrs cables using internal strands of a multicore vdc for about £20. Haven't compared to ifi cable, but sounds good to me.
I love these deep dives. The quest for apple music hi-fi still goes strong.... but since I caved and got the airpods pro 2, man I can't really complain about how lossy bluetooth apple music sounds on those, especially with the noise cancellation. Yes, my U12ts sound better, but I almost wish I could just learn ignorance because my ears are perfectly happy grooving to lossy tunes even when my brain isn't, with the freedom of wireless.
Well done John, that was an excellent “final” deep dive into subject it was well researched and presented. I suspect there is a reason that Apple have decided to go the route they have. It could be technical but is most likely commercial.
Thanks for the video. I have moved on from Apple Music to streaming with my Node connected to my Rotel preamp using the Rotel internal DAC. The Rotel displays the streaming rate. Use the BluOs app on my iPad and iPhone to control my source usually using Qobuz. It’s interesting listening to CD quality 44.1 Hz all the way up to 192Hz HiRes. The sound quality and volume required to get the same loudness varies. Usually the 44.1 Hz is louder and can sometimes sound better to my old ears depending on the track. A lot of debate about the sound quality of HiRes since HiRes tracks and albums flagged in Qobuz or other services are usually remastered versions. Have A/B tested streaming versions vs. CDs I own and the sound quality is very close. Sometimes the CDs sound better but the user experience of streaming usually wins out. I Like controlling everything from my recliner instead of this old man having to get up and change the CD.
you just helped Apple sell a bunch of ipads and subscriptions to apple music, to a bunch of "audiofiles" just by saying extra cabels are needed😂 great video btw.👍🏻 hope you one day also will make a video about apple digital master and how good aac has become. Keep on playing🎵
Great great video! Much clear panorama. The Sonos at some point is a good option for wireless listening.. and for the higher resolutions, you can add a DAC (the ifi is great).. so i can figure out how to complete my setup at least :) Fantastic videos as always !
Agree with all you say in the video - I feel if you are going to commit to something then you should do it right - if we are going lossless and Hi Res then we should try to aim for bit perfect playback - hence my decision to drop Apple Music and go the Qobuz / Roon route so I can check I am getting the music file as intended - very much agree that mastering is more important than hi res bit rates - is there a sweet spot you could do a video about? - albums that are brilliantly mastered with high dynamic range AND available in Hi Res format? - is this where an audible difference would be found vs listening to the same master on a CD?
And also, I tend to agree that mastering is key, however in a lot of cases I hear perfectly the difference between CD and hires. It's more fluid, more polished, more refined... May be system dependent though.
I get excited when I see that your talking about Apple Hi-Res and Dacs I’ve gone down a lot of rabbit holes chasing Hi-Res and have bought a pair of AirPod Pro 2 usb C Buds as my comprise There come a point when I guy just wants convenience and noise cancellation and a Decent budget Sound As you said I’m more invested in the dynamic range aspects of Hi-Res with my 65 year old Ears. And like many of us hope Apple will hook us up with something like an Airplay/Bluetooth option down the road, thus the usbc version of the recently purchased AirPod Pro 2,s
Great thing about the IPad option is that they are so much more than a streamer & so much more portable. Apple will put in a new battery for about £130! Thanks John,thought provoking as usual. P.s. do I really have to pay to find out what music you are playing?
Great video John! In my case somehow when the apple tv updated i managed to get hi-res audio out but when using plex app (not apple music) and a hi-res source in my NAS. Keep up the good work!
Such a great video John. One of the best ever. I will keep enjoying streaming Apple Music from my iPad to my hifi system, to my home theatre from Apple 4K, to my Tesla and Tesla from the integrated App. I find the sound quality really excellent, the APP superb and the ecosystem integration unbeatable. It always works for both my wife and I. Would like like lossless but I always have my CDs of most of the music that is really important to me.
Now that this topic is done? I would like to see what your setups would look like, maybe even different price points of audio setups. (Headphones, speakers, amps, etc.)
Good points as always BUT Darko, ipads are tools that many of us professionals use also to make money. You can't do that with any fiio 😂. So yes, ipads are not free, yes if someone only buys one to use as a hi res audio streamer (what a waste really) probably can cover that need with better hardware, BUT ipads provide Free hi res quality stream, to those of us that use them for other reasons AND use them some times for audio 😊. Hope my comment makes sense 😂
Rather surprising fiio would bring the r7 to market as a center piece streaming solution literally as the os was being unsupported.. cant quite understand that choice.
They would have chosen the chip long before they did the UI and at the end of the day, every version of Android will face the same fate. Sure, their timing sucks but that's showbiz.
Well and ipad is still cheaper than a fiio r7 or an eversolo dmpA6 so i will stick with it no issues for me. For context purpose i do own an eversolo dac z8 so i don’t need the dac part of the streamers. If apple would add an optical out to the apple tv it would be a killer
USB-C iPads do charge from a USB-C cable connected to a DAC that supplies power, although I understand that is rare. More important, Apple Music sounds worst than Qobuz. Thank you for this great video series, it is really helpful.
ipads have other uses though ,which you are not considering. Also you didnt mention the Eversolo can have a storage added for offline playback. You seem to have a bias towards towards the Fio
The support problem isn't about security. You're not gonna use your credit card on the Fiio R7. It's about the apps. Phone app devs program their apps in such a way, that at a certain point they stop working (for example, you can't use an Android 4 device nowadays, because most modern apps will not even install, or will tell you that your OS is too old). Basically, all Android-based DAPs, DACs, and streamers will one day either stop you from using these apps, or won't allow you to update them, and then for example the app will refuse to work without the newest version installed.
I have been in the Apple ecosystem , Mac Mini , IPad , IPhone , Iwatch so I can experiment. First I found the camera adaptor pretty useless sonic wise. Second the Mac Mini softens the dynamics , attack , oomph , fullness of the music. The only option I found satisfying was using the IPhone ( or any IOS device ) with USB C output, connected directly to my DDC ( cuz I can hear that it lowers the noise floor considerably) before connecting to my DAC via I2S. It is not a minor improvement VS other options , it’s actually night and day - anyway in my set up, so I can’t speak for everyone else.
My setup for streaming is…..Tidal streaming, iPad for usb to DAC for my headphone amps, android with aptx for BT to DAC when needed on my main system, when im not using apple tv, hdmi audio.
My MiniDSP Flex can do LDAC. So can the latest Android software release. That's the best protocol and I won't use anything else for serious listening. Not impressed by expensive integrated amps that can't do it, either. I use an R2R DAC that won't accept Bluetooth and though there's lots of cheaper Chinese delta sigma ones that can, I don't want them. LDAC may use lossy compression, but it's not particularly audible to me much of the time. There's a lot of empty space in most recordings. Cutting that, is how compression works. Even if you clip information that was in the recording, it wasn't always necessary information. Like, if the quietest instrument is playing at 15 db, and you are listening at 75 db, the information below 15 db could be a bunch of zeros. I don't insist on high bit rate streams or high rez recordings. Those things alone, can have more to do with marketing than better sound. Someone might as well clip what's above 13 kHz as well and shrink the size of the file, because I cant hear that anymore. More digital information and higher sample rates doesn't always result in better sound, if you are working from a lousy master. I had flipped btwn Tidal's MASTER and Hi-Fi streams for hours using a good Benchmark DAC. I no longer pay for MASTER service.
Apple and long support? I was unfortunate that 3 Apple devices went out of Apple support simultaneously a few years ago: iMac 2013, Apple 6Plus and iPad - not a happy customer. Since upgraded to MacMini M2 and iPad Pro while also a newer iPhone found its way into our home.
I use UAPP as a renderer in my Google TV which can output bit perfect to an external DAC. It works fine. By the way, I turn off the video during my audio streaming and UAPP is always on. UAPP cannot access local library. However, if you use it as a renderer and use another UPnP app in the mobile to remote control it. It can access your audio files in your media server. I used JRiver as my media server.
thank you for this review and also your previous review on Apple Music!!! it really helps a lot in giving us all the RIGHT information. i had recently switch from Tidal to Apple Music because they have the song i like that Tidal don't. After researching online and watching your video, i went for the ipad 12.9 Pro and hock it up to my Dell WD19S dock to get bit perfect from Apple music. 🙂
John's question on Sonos: yes! Just like Homepod 2, Sonos speakers/streamers (newer ones) do stream Apple Music at their ALAC (24-bit/48 kHz) when you run the playback on Sonos's own app (S2) app. Now I'm not sure what would happen if one then starts the same playback with other Sonos Speakers in the house. I reckon, same with the homepods multi room echo system, the stream would be beamed out to other sonos speakers from the "parent" sonos speaker (the one you started the stream on) via Airplay 2 again, no? (which then would downsize the quality to Apple's AAC).
I have a IPad Air and it stopped updating @12.5. About a year or so ago😡 Really annoying as my battery is still pretty good, generally lasts the day without drama. But software like Spotify was still updated a couple of times, but it’s glitchy now 😔
Here is one option you didn't mention which is the lowest cost way to get Hi Res Apple Music to your DAC and not have to keep getting up to go touch the screen on your Fiio R7 or Ipad or whatever you're using. Just buy a long printer cable. That way you can use your iphone right there in your listening chair. No need to get up and go over to your equipment. I use an old Belkin printer cable.
I have been into “higher end” audio since the mid 1970’s. In all honesty, if I’m using a decent bluetooth streamer, or any decent streamer (I’m currently using iFi into an Audiobyte Black Dragon DAC), personally I can’t hear differences, assuming that I’m using good speakers and power to begin, which I am. I’m not saying that the differences are not there, but if I have to really concentrate on “listening sessions” to compare different gear to only get a modicum of slight differences, then I’m simply not going to notice it when I’m doing normal listening. I hear people on Audiogon constantly say that they hear huge differences just in cables alone, as though it’s black and white to color TV. I’m just not buying that. If there is that big of a difference then there is a problem somewhere in the chain. Just sayin’………..
And this is why I don't stream any music. I buy it (download it at the resolution I want or buy a physical copy) and listen that way. I can always rip a CD to FLAC and use my DAP for playback where and whenever I want. (and my computer) And the music I own will always be available.(sometimes streaming services will tell you that it's not available when you want it)
Updates are equal important. No Apple updates, then a replaced battery might not be worth it. Most programs relays on Apple keeping the device safe. Apple updating, then a new battery is a no brainier.
I’ve been using the loudness wars database to find albums on CD with the best dynamic range and they are almost always original recording mixes and mastering. I have purchased several albums that I also own in high resolution and the sound quality is noticeably better and less harsh. I’ve been engaged in this hobby for 10 years and I feel that I’ve been duped by Hi-Res audio. Hi-Res is great for recently released music, but Hi-Res releases of the albums I’ve tested so far are still dynamically compressed enough to sound harsh at times. As mentioned on the Darko Audio podcast, it took digital playback gear awhile to catch up but now that DACs and filters are for the most part very good and affordable the superior sound quality of original mixes are even more apparent. I want to say thank you John for helping to open my eyes and ears to enjoy my music even more.
I am happy using my iPad Pro (that I use for everything else, including work) via USB C to my external DAC with Hi-res capabilities. And this saves me around EUR 800 that would only buy me some cool VU meters in the EverSolo and a remote/control app, along with the risk of it becoming obsolete due to the lack of Android updates in the long run. I would replace my iPad anyway in the future, so it isn't really a question for me (and I believe for many iPad users). Great video tough, as usual!!!
Thank you for continuing to beat the drum over dynamic range and compression issues in mastering. For years I have reluctantly turned my back on a lot of good music that is poorly mastered and instead often found myself honing in on less ideal music but that sounds dynamic. It actually drives me batty.
I have found that using a Dbx Dynamic range expander I can restore some of the excitement lost in music compression.
This is a fantastic video, John! Love the format and pace. Really enjoyable.
Thank you so much for this series! It was very helpful. Just joined your Patreon as well to say thank you (and your playlists are amazing)!
Thank you so much for all your reviews. Really appreciate all the informative videos.😊
Most important thing I took from this, which is very true, is that indeed hi res audio means nothing without a proper mastered album/track which in quality varies by a lot
I love how thoughtful, well considered and thought provoking these followup videos are. Thank you John 👍😁👍
Btw, if someone already owns iPad Pro with Apple Smart Keyboard, they can charge the iPad using the keyboard USB C port and connect iPad to external DAC through iPad USB C port simultaneously. No 3rd party dongles or splitters required.
I wouldn’t recommend purchasing both solely for AM streaming as it’s too pricey for the purpose, but it’s a good use case if you already own the combo anyway.
Oh, and I connect my iPad to Cambridge Audio CXA 61 amplifier via USB.
I'd never considered mastering and dynamic range seriously until encountering your content reviewing it, so thank you for continuing to point out it's significant impact!
Hmm.. that's the cleanest, clearest intro audio I've heard in a long time.. Cool..
THANKS JOHN 👍 FOR EXPLAINING IN UNDERSTANDABLE TERMS…JUST HOW NICHE THIS IS AND HOW THE QUALITY OF THE MUSIC IS MORE IMPORTANT…I PERSONALLY CAN RELAX 🤗 AND JUST ENJOY THE MUSIC 🎼🎹🎺🎷
I am very grateful for your explanations on this technical side of Hi-Res audio transmission via Bluetooth, Apple and Android software and devices from them.
Thanks for elaborating in regard of the 48kHz downsample/upsample..
I really don't care about high res but I really like when a device manages a direct integer for 44.1 and 48kHz.
Just as a starter, you have become my go-to channel (and information source…yes, I also read your website) about audio, and the fact that you’ve made this series of videos about Apple Music is amazing. But…IMO it was de video about Dynamic Range that “woke me up”, I think most people in the audio world is aware of it, but the way in which you present it was just…”in your face”😂. The end of this video sums it all, the mastering has the bigger weight!…and as a side note, I’m planning to become supporter after I graduate…you know 😅. Thanks!!
Hmm, if you already have an iPad [lots of people do] and your amp contains a decent inbuilt DAC [like a Hegel does] then Apple Music streaming does come at the very reasonable price of a Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter from Apple at £45. The adapter lets you power the iPad whilst also streaming via USB.
But you still have to pay for the iPad at some point. It isn't $0. But hey, I'm repeating myself because this was covered in the video. Happy listening!
Hmm, but I already bought an iPad [to do many other tasks] years ago, so adding the adapter for £45 is a no brainer. Of course if you have to go out and buy an iPad just for streaming its different - but [at the risk of repeating myself] lots of people already have an iPad@@DarkoAudio
@@DarkoAudio I would argue the Eversolo and Fiio aren't free either and an Ipad can do a lot more than just stream apple music.
@@DarkoAudio Yes an iPad isn’t cheap but the Main difference is that the other two only play music, where the iPad is also a compact computer. Playing Music is in this case a Nice to have add-on
I am amazed that people has 3 or 5 thousands dollars amp (and very likely also own similar priced speakers) argues about why should have a 800 dollars dedicated music streamer/dac. Is streamer a new thing today?
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate how in depth you go into these things, and mostly how I appreciate you giving all the correct information rather than glossing over differences that "most people" aren't going to notice. It's refreshingly respectful for you to give the information as accurately as you can so that people can decide for themselves what parts matter to them (as opposed to what many reviewers seems to do, which is try to sound absolute about things because that is what they imagine an authoritative voice should do). It's very helpful to hear, for instance, that although you don't particularly care to chase hi-res audio for your own listening pleasure, it is incorrect and misguided to call something hi-res or bit perfect just because it can upsample and output greater than CD quality resolution. Thank you for being reliable by putting forth care and effort. It's noticed.
I agree that the mastering quality is far more important than the bit rate, etc. Thanks for the information. Btw, when does the interview with pbthal air?
I use my old Google pixel phone with usb audio pro app and chord mojo dac into my Hifi stream amazon music the high resolution is cheap and sounds fantastic.
I know that this is not the subject here, but i want to share with you my discovers:
Here are my top ten hifi listenings:
ALBUMS:
1. PATRICIA BARBER: Café blue or Clique! (32 bits or 4xDSD, a standard on hifi shows);
2. SHELBY LYNNE: Just a little lovin' (so in love...);
3. DIANA KRALL: Turn up the quiet (her voice so well recorded, microphone near her mouth...);
4. NILS LOFGREN: Acoustic live (the guitars so well recorded, another standard on hifi shows);
5. KEITH GREENINGER: Close to the soul (a pure DSD record);
SONGS:
6. FINK: Perfect darkness (the subtlety of the percussion, the soft acoustic guitar, the relaxed voice... a delight!);
7. BRIAN BROMBERG: Elephants on ice skates (the bass and drum... just wow!);
8. GHOST RIDER: Make us stronger (a spectacular song for everyones who want to know the power of bass/electronic);
9. YELLO: Till tomorrow (bass and trumpet... at their best!);
10. THE FAIRFIELD FOUR: These bones (just for the fun to listen the lower bass voice you will ever listen to! 100% sure).
Have fun!
So this may not be the most glamorous approach but I’ve been using a long USB cable from the couch (with my iPhone) to the DAC and I hide it under a rug. Just another idea for those working with Apple Music.
Really liked the comparisons of solutions at the end John!
I may be wrong but I think you can have the battery on your old iPad replaced.
Watching at the moment on an old iPad had the battery replaced by a local phone/electrical shop for £45, been absolutely fine since😊
Yes good thinking!
All I want is my Apple TV 4K to do all high res formats over HDMI. Simple for the user, great interface - nothing to confuse the consumer.
The not hi res you get under your current circumstances is still really good. Enjoy it and don't pull your hair out. A speaker upgrade has far more impact than chasing the tiny differences between lossless and hi res. I have spent a ton of money figuring out I shouldn't have spent a ton of money. Enjoy your setup.
As a service I really like Apple Music, and it pains me a bit that I need to have a Qobuz subscription as well to integrate streaming audio with my hifi system. I think we mustn’t stress the need for hi-res audio from Apple Music, but just the need for easy/easier integration of AM in our audio setup, hi-res or not. That probably won’t ever happen, but if it would, it surely would mean trouble for Tidal, Qobuz and the likes of them.
JD makes a comment regarding iPads not being free. I am using an old iPad Air , purchased in 2015, specifically as a steamer , connected to an external Dac and Naim Amp. Battery is getting low but leave it permanently plugged in to mains. (Could replace battery for £100). It works superbly and having been purchased 8 years ago does not owe me much. Latest Apple update installed today (15.8). Highly recommended use of old iPad.
It is also worth noting that playing apple music direct from Eversolo to DAC vs Ipad to DAC via usb sounds significantly better in all aspects.
I had experimented with this for hours today switching back and forth and the eversolo just sounds so much better on every track I tested.
The only reason I kept on trying the ipad direct into the dac option was to convince myself I dont need the eversolo so I can sell it however the sound quality from the ipad just sounds so lifeless, narrow soundstage, less separation, less dynamics.
Unfortunately I am keeping the eversolo until I can find a cheaper alternative.
However I do wonder If I had an ipad with a usb C output vs lighting if it would sound any better.
Thanks for diving deep into this topic
Thank you for the in-depth video. Very much appreciate your insight into this topic.
while having a better source is always welcome. if you have good equiptment the source quality, if you take anything atleast decent is so good these days. it really is a minimal factor.
Just get Speakers and room right. Amp can help as well. If you nail these ur at 95%+ already. You can only gain minimal gains later. That being said. An apple tv with apple music subscription and enabled high quality source material and there u are. Having the best audio quality avaiable. If you are someone who wants bit perfect output. You can do it either with a iPhone or a Mac instead. They either allow u to change output format or adjust it depending on what is currently played.
But u cant hear that anyway. Theres no single system in the world where u can hear the diffrence between 24bit/48khz and 24bit/192khz. Its just beyond both, human hearing and our ability to reproduce sound. So thinking about it or chasing it will just draw u away from what matters. Speakers / Placement / Room. and as said, having bad amps is bad as well, obviously.
Love this subject and format…TY for your hard work and quality production 😊
The difference is you get an iPad for 10 years you can use for things other than audio. High end dacs and streamers dont really make sense when an Ipad or Mac Mini can handle it better with more versatility
I really enjoy the classical, lossless and bit perfect video transitions. Maybe you can add a high res logo to it next time, that would be perfect😄
Really appreciate your cut to facts & highlighting all the red herrings
Technically with good home router you can assign secondary network for eversolo or Miio, therefore they will be isolated from your home network reducing security concerns.
Thanks John, never thought of charging and connecting my dongle DAC to my phone in parallel, that's great 😊
You should be able to connect the Ipad directly to the R7 via USB. (Ipad as source and R7 as DAC/Amp.) I connect my Ipad to the Fiio K9 Pro that way.
Great video John. I gotta ask though..where do you get your music for your videos? It's always extremely good.
Great video. As always. What I enjoy most after the content is the music in your videos! Do you have a playlist? Ideally on Tidal. Thanks.
Fiio M11 plus ess DAP connected to yamaha home theater system via coaxial. Apple music lossless playing through Yamaha speakers is a room filling joy.
I'm inclined to believe that Apple might not prioritize high-resolution audio support over Bluetooth, even with upcoming standards. Instead, they're likely to develop a proprietary solution that ties closely to their hardware ecosystem. They might even redefine what 'high-resolution' means by introducing distinct features and definitions-perhaps something like "Spatial Quality"-to set it apart as uniquely Apple.
Hi John. I love this series. Here is my current "solution" to play Apple Music through my PS Audio Sprout 100. From my listening position, using my MacBook Air, I open Finder, connect to and screen share with my Mac Mini, in which I open Apple Music and play music. The Mac Mini is connected to the PS Audio Sprout 100 via USB cable. This way I can avoid Bluetooth, but still this is not an ideal situation.
I feel like John always does the Eversolo a little dirty. The Eversolo can also work as a music server/cd ripper. It's was a big feature that caused me to buy it in the end. Should have included that when complimenting the Fiio
100% percent Agree!!!!
Seems to be a recurring theme.
Doing it dirty? Nope. I also sailed past many of the FiiO's more niche features to make sure that the video didn't run off track. This video's focus was Apple Music running on those devices and their general utility and not the CD ripping and local storage bay on the Eversolo; or the 2 x balanced XLR headphone outputs, variable USB output, external display hookups, IR remote, mini-keyboard control, SoundCloud, Mixcloud, Deezer, Amazon Music HD, Roon ARC or Plex playback available to the FiiO.
@@DarkoAudio A 'litte' dirty John, little being the operative word here. I understand your point in not including all features to maintain the flow of the video however I thought it pertinent to state that particular feature when commenting on the FiiOs ability to use an SD drive for offline playback. It felt a 'little' dirty not to state the Eversolo can also do this. It gives the impression it can't. Either way, I'm a fan, I really like and enjoy your content and my comments do not come from a place of consumer biass, hatred or spite. It was just an observation I found and decided to comment!
I could see that -- and it's why I replied. ;) I think anyone watching my dedicated Eversolo review video would know what it can and can't do. The FiiO got the nod for the 'offline playback' point in this video because that's how Srajan at 6moons uses his and it's how I would use it if it were forced offline. And it also got the nod because, per my dedicated Eversolo video, I think the FiiO is the better sounding unit once the external PSU is added (which then makes it exactly the same price as the Eversolo).
I am old but I can definitely hear hi res music and cd quality is the best regardless . I like the convenience of streaming and my hearing gravitates to hi res music, I feel more comfortable listening to it and I can listen for longer period of time as it is more comfortable to listen to and I am not straining to find the detail.
Thanks John, looking forward to part two.
A friend built me some pentacon to XLR and to trrs cables using internal strands of a multicore vdc for about £20. Haven't compared to ifi cable, but sounds good to me.
Not really a fan of Apple Tea Trays with visuals but Mr. Darko you're the man when it comes to reviews :)
Thanks! Great sum up video.
Why apple don’t let us use old devices as media central. We Just need Apple Music remote control like Spotify it has.
Another great one , thanks John😎👍
Android 14 does include it. But it needs to be activated/Integrated by the developers of that particular music app.
I love these deep dives. The quest for apple music hi-fi still goes strong.... but since I caved and got the airpods pro 2, man I can't really complain about how lossy bluetooth apple music sounds on those, especially with the noise cancellation. Yes, my U12ts sound better, but I almost wish I could just learn ignorance because my ears are perfectly happy grooving to lossy tunes even when my brain isn't, with the freedom of wireless.
Well done John, that was an excellent “final” deep dive into subject it was well researched and presented. I suspect there is a reason that Apple have decided to go the route they have. It could be technical but is most likely commercial.
Thanks for the video. I have moved on from Apple Music to streaming with my Node connected to my Rotel preamp using the Rotel internal DAC. The Rotel displays the streaming rate. Use the BluOs app on my iPad and iPhone to control my source usually using Qobuz. It’s interesting listening to CD quality 44.1 Hz all the way up to 192Hz HiRes. The sound quality and volume required to get the same loudness varies. Usually the 44.1 Hz is louder and can sometimes sound better to my old ears depending on the track. A lot of debate about the sound quality of HiRes since HiRes tracks and albums flagged in Qobuz or other services are usually remastered versions. Have A/B tested streaming versions vs. CDs I own and the sound quality is very close. Sometimes the CDs sound better but the user experience of streaming usually wins out. I Like controlling everything from my recliner instead of this old man having to get up and change the CD.
you just helped Apple sell a bunch of ipads and subscriptions to apple music, to a bunch of "audiofiles" just by saying extra cabels are needed😂 great video btw.👍🏻 hope you one day also will make a video about apple digital master and how good aac has become. Keep on playing🎵
Thanks JD, on point as usual on this topic.
Loved seeing DR darabase briefly displayed. Needs more attention ❤
Great great video! Much clear panorama. The Sonos at some point is a good option for wireless listening.. and for the higher resolutions, you can add a DAC (the ifi is great).. so i can figure out how to complete my setup at least :)
Fantastic videos as always !
Agree with all you say in the video - I feel if you are going to commit to something then you should do it right - if we are going lossless and Hi Res then we should try to aim for bit perfect playback - hence my decision to drop Apple Music and go the Qobuz / Roon route so I can check I am getting the music file as intended - very much agree that mastering is more important than hi res bit rates - is there a sweet spot you could do a video about? - albums that are brilliantly mastered with high dynamic range AND available in Hi Res format? - is this where an audible difference would be found vs listening to the same master on a CD?
And also, I tend to agree that mastering is key, however in a lot of cases I hear perfectly the difference between CD and hires. It's more fluid, more polished, more refined... May be system dependent though.
I get excited when I see that your talking about Apple Hi-Res and Dacs
I’ve gone down a lot of rabbit holes chasing Hi-Res and have bought a pair of AirPod Pro 2 usb C Buds as my comprise
There come a point when I guy just wants convenience and noise cancellation and a
Decent budget Sound
As you said I’m more invested in the dynamic range aspects of Hi-Res with my 65 year old Ears. And like many of us hope Apple will hook us up with something like an Airplay/Bluetooth option down the road, thus the usbc version of the recently purchased AirPod Pro 2,s
Thanks for the details on the (terrible) FiiO software update management! It's good that this problem gets some attention in your video!
4:54 3rd Gen Apple TV 4k can support 192 kHz.
Looks like the Apple TV no longer upsamples to 48khz with it's 17.2 update.
Very interesting post. Thanks for the good and important technical details. I would love to see more technical posts like this. Thank you very much.
Excellent and revealing clarification, thanks.
Nice opener from Cody High.
Great thing about the IPad option is that they are so much more than a streamer & so much more portable.
Apple will put in a new battery for about £130!
Thanks John,thought provoking as usual.
P.s. do I really have to pay to find out what music you are playing?
Not at all. You can use Shazam.
@@DarkoAudioof course thanks
Great video John! In my case somehow when the apple tv updated i managed to get hi-res audio out but when using plex app (not apple music) and a hi-res source in my NAS. Keep up the good work!
Another extremely useful and entertaining video! Bravo and thank you for putting these out! Cheers from San Francisco!
Such a great video John. One of the best ever. I will keep enjoying streaming Apple Music from my iPad to my hifi system, to my home theatre from Apple 4K, to my Tesla and Tesla from the integrated App. I find the sound quality really excellent, the APP superb and the ecosystem integration unbeatable. It always works for both my wife and I. Would like like lossless but I always have my CDs of most of the music that is really important to me.
Probably the best audio Mythbusters channel
Now that this topic is done? I would like to see what your setups would look like, maybe even different price points of audio setups. (Headphones, speakers, amps, etc.)
Good points as always BUT Darko, ipads are tools that many of us professionals use also to make money. You can't do that with any fiio 😂. So yes, ipads are not free, yes if someone only buys one to use as a hi res audio streamer (what a waste really) probably can cover that need with better hardware, BUT ipads provide Free hi res quality stream, to those of us that use them for other reasons AND use them some times for audio 😊. Hope my comment makes sense 😂
BT will never handle Proper Lossless music. Wires have existed for decades and will always be the one
ALWAYS is quite a long time... Not so sure about that
I think you did a great job!
Thank you John. This is a relevant and interesting topic. It feels like some parts of the industry are opaque with the truth
Rather surprising fiio would bring the r7 to market as a center piece streaming solution literally as the os was being unsupported.. cant quite understand that choice.
They would have chosen the chip long before they did the UI and at the end of the day, every version of Android will face the same fate. Sure, their timing sucks but that's showbiz.
Well and ipad is still cheaper than a fiio r7 or an eversolo dmpA6 so i will stick with it no issues for me. For context purpose i do own an eversolo dac z8 so i don’t need the dac part of the streamers. If apple would add an optical out to the apple tv it would be a killer
Goodness - how about unpacking the audio stream of UA-cam? Brilliant vid, btw.
USB-C iPads do charge from a USB-C cable connected to a DAC that supplies power, although I understand that is rare. More important, Apple Music sounds worst than Qobuz. Thank you for this great video series, it is really helpful.
ipads have other uses though ,which you are not considering. Also you didnt mention the Eversolo can have a storage added for offline playback. You seem to have a bias towards towards the Fio
The support problem isn't about security. You're not gonna use your credit card on the Fiio R7. It's about the apps. Phone app devs program their apps in such a way, that at a certain point they stop working (for example, you can't use an Android 4 device nowadays, because most modern apps will not even install, or will tell you that your OS is too old). Basically, all Android-based DAPs, DACs, and streamers will one day either stop you from using these apps, or won't allow you to update them, and then for example the app will refuse to work without the newest version installed.
I have been in the Apple ecosystem , Mac Mini , IPad , IPhone , Iwatch so I can experiment. First I found the camera adaptor pretty useless sonic wise. Second the Mac Mini softens the dynamics , attack , oomph , fullness of the music. The only option I found satisfying was using the IPhone ( or any IOS device ) with USB C output, connected directly to my DDC ( cuz I can hear that it lowers the noise floor considerably) before connecting to my DAC via I2S. It is not a minor improvement VS other options , it’s actually night and day - anyway in my set up, so I can’t speak for everyone else.
Very helpful. Thank you
My setup for streaming is…..Tidal streaming, iPad for usb to DAC for my headphone amps, android with aptx for BT to DAC when needed on my main system, when im not using apple tv, hdmi audio.
My MiniDSP Flex can do LDAC. So can the latest Android software release. That's the best protocol and I won't use anything else for serious listening. Not impressed by expensive integrated amps that can't do it, either. I use an R2R DAC that won't accept Bluetooth and though there's lots of cheaper Chinese delta sigma ones that can, I don't want them. LDAC may use lossy compression, but it's not particularly audible to me much of the time. There's a lot of empty space in most recordings. Cutting that, is how compression works. Even if you clip information that was in the recording, it wasn't always necessary information. Like, if the quietest instrument is playing at 15 db, and you are listening at 75 db, the information below 15 db could be a bunch of zeros. I don't insist on high bit rate streams or high rez recordings. Those things alone, can have more to do with marketing than better sound. Someone might as well clip what's above 13 kHz as well and shrink the size of the file, because I cant hear that anymore. More digital information and higher sample rates doesn't always result in better sound, if you are working from a lousy master. I had flipped btwn Tidal's MASTER and Hi-Fi streams for hours using a good Benchmark DAC. I no longer pay for MASTER service.
i thought u can use an ordinary USB hub with iPad that have
USB C output and USB-C PD input as well as SDcard reader
Apple and long support? I was unfortunate that 3 Apple devices went out of Apple support simultaneously a few years ago: iMac 2013, Apple 6Plus and iPad - not a happy customer.
Since upgraded to MacMini M2 and iPad Pro while also a newer iPhone found its way into our home.
When I first got into better audio I was very eager to listen to hi-res audio, two years later I didn't care about it at all.
I use UAPP as a renderer in my Google TV which can output bit perfect to an external DAC. It works fine. By the way, I turn off the video during my audio streaming and UAPP is always on. UAPP cannot access local library. However, if you use it as a renderer and use another UPnP app in the mobile to remote control it. It can access your audio files in your media server. I used JRiver as my media server.
Thanks John.
thank you for this review and also your previous review on Apple Music!!!
it really helps a lot in giving us all the RIGHT information.
i had recently switch from Tidal to Apple Music because they have the song i like that Tidal don't.
After researching online and watching your video, i went for the ipad 12.9 Pro and hock it up to my Dell WD19S dock to get bit perfect from Apple music. 🙂
Mike Moffat from Schiit always says the CD format can handle more information than most of DACs are able to extract. So there is still headroom there.
I wish I could fully remotely control Apple Music app on iPad from my iPhone. Remote playback control is available but it’s not good enough
John's question on Sonos: yes! Just like Homepod 2, Sonos speakers/streamers (newer ones) do stream Apple Music at their ALAC (24-bit/48 kHz) when you run the playback on Sonos's own app (S2) app. Now I'm not sure what would happen if one then starts the same playback with other Sonos Speakers in the house. I reckon, same with the homepods multi room echo system, the stream would be beamed out to other sonos speakers from the "parent" sonos speaker (the one you started the stream on) via Airplay 2 again, no? (which then would downsize the quality to Apple's AAC).
Apple Music on Sonos isn't CD quality lossless, it's either lossy or dolby atmos, as per the screenshot in the video
¡Me gustan estos vídeos! ✌
iPads have more uses than hires audio. Can you watch a movie at your desk on those other devices. Or take it to the beach. Etc etc
I have a IPad Air and it stopped updating @12.5. About a year or so ago😡
Really annoying as my battery is still pretty good, generally lasts the day without drama. But software like Spotify was still updated a couple of times, but it’s glitchy now 😔
Here is one option you didn't mention which is the lowest cost way to get Hi Res Apple Music to your DAC and not have to keep getting up to go touch the screen on your Fiio R7 or Ipad or whatever you're using. Just buy a long printer cable. That way you can use your iphone right there in your listening chair. No need to get up and go over to your equipment. I use an old Belkin printer cable.
I have been into “higher end” audio since the mid 1970’s. In all honesty, if I’m using a decent bluetooth streamer, or any decent streamer (I’m currently using iFi into an Audiobyte Black Dragon DAC), personally I can’t hear differences, assuming that I’m using good speakers and power to begin, which I am. I’m not saying that the differences are not there, but if I have to really concentrate on “listening sessions” to compare different gear to only get a modicum of slight differences, then I’m simply not going to notice it when I’m doing normal listening.
I hear people on Audiogon constantly say that they hear huge differences just in cables alone, as though it’s black and white to color TV. I’m just not buying that. If there is that big of a difference then there is a problem somewhere in the chain. Just sayin’………..
And this is why I don't stream any music. I buy it (download it at the resolution I want or buy a physical copy) and listen that way. I can always rip a CD to FLAC and use my DAP for playback where and whenever I want. (and my computer) And the music I own will always be available.(sometimes streaming services will tell you that it's not available when you want it)
Replace the battery in your iPad instead of sending it down the trash, John. Less cost, but what's more important, less e-waste.
If you can't find a place to replace the battery, recycle the device~
Updates are equal important. No Apple updates, then a replaced battery might not be worth it. Most programs relays on Apple keeping the device safe. Apple updating, then a new battery is a no brainier.
I think 10 years are definitely enough! And this device will be recycled.
@@francesschaeferapple does it
Great gift for a younger relative (w new battery)