Were England unlucky against France? | Whistle Watch
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
- After a dramatic finale to the 2024 Six Nations, Nigel Owens takes a look at all of the big talking points from the weekend's action.
Nigel takes a look at Super Saturday's frantic action, analysing France's closely fought victory against England and some late controversy, Ireland's journey to the title and Italy's historic victory in Cardiff against Wales.
To get even more insight into this week's Six Nations action, be sure to watch Beyond 80, for free on RugbyPassTV: rugbypass.tv/video/599228
#Rugby #SixNations #Review #WhistleWatch #Referee
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Sitting on the Fence - with Nigel Owens.
🤣
Nigel used to offer his view a lot more openly. Maybe World rugby , or ex colleagues, didn’t like that. Wayne Barnes write that he didn’t like it in his book.
Now it’s indeed very bland. Sadly.
He's giving you the means to make an informed judgement, what more do you want? What would be served by him giving his opinion?
@@nerdyali4154 well with all due respect, I already know the laws pretty well, and thus have formed a judgement of my own, and with the laws being somewhat open to the interpretation of the matchday referees, I would in fact be interested to know the opinion of Nigel on some of these decisions...I'm less interested in him telling me about the laws that I already know. I literally learnt nothing new from this video. Though the dogs were rather entertaining, I liked them a lot in fact.
This man puts a massive smile on my face at every opening, without fail. We miss you Nigel.
Why do you miss him? He's right there
Nigel, please add what decision you would have made
Nigel Is Brilliant ❤
For Ben Earl's tackle or no arm tackle, it was only a post World Cup 6 nations game, and even then, only to decide who comes second. But it follows the World Cup where too many key games were decided by the "refs interpretation" which French, Irish and probably English fans feel they got on the wrong end of.
i kinda feel like interpretation for this example feels like abit of an excuse for refs. my biggest issue with the earl tackle is: we are asking players to reduce their height in contact to reduce the risk of head collisions(which i am all for btw). BUT if Ben was not to go as low as he did(which resulted in him getting penalized) , he probably would have made contact with the ball carriers head. So as far as i can see, its a lose lose no matter what..
@@dcmj3798 Exactly, forwards are now just hunching into a cannon ball like this with the ball hugged on their chest. There is very little to actually tackle here without giving a penalty.
@@dcmj3798 good point. Also, on occasions I'm seeing ball carriers dip incredibly low which gives the tackler very little area to make the tackle.
what about the arms????@@dcmj3798
Every tackle by the forwards defending crash ball on the try line tackles like the earl tackle so we should have penalties every time a team is within 5 metres
You mean like the one Antonio got carded for against Scotland after the TMO brought it to the refs attention, but probably not like the 2 no arms tackles/clear outs that I think it was Genge and George did to bizarrely enough Antonio which laid the big man out for a few minutes and although replayed on the TV were obviously not deemed worthy of attention by anyone on the refereeing team. I’ll agree that compared to those 2 that last penalty was incredibly soft. The level of consistency in the refereeing is the biggest issue same as in the World Cup I don’t know what the answer is but something needs to be done.
@@joescummer150 or not! Each ref is always going to be slightly different and teams have to live with who they get. There is 80mins to try and win the game, in most cases it never comes down to the effects of just a few moments. We already have TMO's and that has improved big games but it isn't ever going to be perfect - perfection does not exist in the real world.
Marvellous as usual Nige. I would like to see a clear definition as to what the TMO can and cannot decide/intervene with
That's the main issue with the Earl penalty. Plenty of time this low tackle happened when teams were defending the their lines against crash ball.
Nothing.
Yet in last play of the game it gets pinged.
Bad decision. No one watching it in full speed at the time thought it was a penalty. Including the ref.
it's admitted that it's tolerated on the try line, not elsewhere on the pitch, he was on the middle line...
@@izizovitch you can't pick and choose more so when it decided the winning play of a game.
@@izizovitch That's not how laws work.
Can’t be the only one who the dog’s failed attempt to climb the hay pile…🤣🤣😅
Byrne tackle yellow card, no significant risk of injury. Sam Cane almost identical tackle in the World Cup final, red card. No consistency in refereeing, and that is one example of many. Thanks for the analysis Nigel, very enjoyable.
Surprised there was no mention of the Tadhg Furlong try, that looked clearly grounded.
Earl's arm actually gets knocked to the ground but the opponent's knee.
As an Englishman I have to say George North you are one of the very best that’s played, All the best for the future
What beautiful place there, Nigel. Love your animals ❤️
Earl tackles the exact same way about 5 minutes before allowing Dombrant to get over the ball forcing a penalty to England and no penalty given against Earl on that occasion. So no consistency for me. That said what a brilliant game of rugby and advert for the 6 Nations. Always enjoy your debriefs thanks Nigel 👏
Totally agree, as an England fan I didnt exactly feel gutted or robbed because it was a very good game overall. The french wingers were making a lot of meters so I dont feel that England controlled the game like they did with Ireland. Still, no penalty for me, England could have won that but we didnt.
@@hugoagnehall9777 my thoughts exactly.
But on the other hand genge was penalysed at the 34 mn for no arm tackle with a Warning told to the english capt. This is maybe the consistency that nigel talk about. And a great game it was.🎉
@@hugoagnehall9777 Right or wrong, the penalty against Earl was called out by the TMO according to what I've read
@@adrienlaubard Except that the Genge tackle was a pretty clear and obvious no arms tackle. It's not that close to the Earl one, where he clearly was looking to lead with the shoulder and wrap after contact (you can see that in multiple angles). The issue Earl has is that he wasn't able to wrap, so technically it is illegal. But it's overlooked more often than not if it looks as through there was an intent to wrap. It certainly wasn't a clear call either way. And it's very harsh to lose the game on a decision like that.
That being said, it was very much on brand for France's campaign. Scotland almost certainly scored the winning try in the 80th minute against France, but because the ref made an on-field call that was probably wrong, and the footage wasn't 100% in their favour, France were gifted a dodgy win. Then Italy almost certainly should have been allowed to re-take the 80th minute penalty they missed after France encroached. But the ref missed it, and France escaped with a dodgy draw. And then the 50/50 Earl penalty in the 80th minute gifted them a third fortunate last-minute result. France had more luck in this 6N than most teams get in a decade. They could easily have finished 5th with 1 win.
Very interesting. Let's do the SAME THING for South Africa vs France during the world cup.
He did
@@belis35 havent found it
Where
Some serious fence sitting this year Nigel
Yep noteven showing video… This is turning into Nigel’s coverups!
@@ThePhilcamAssuming they have the rights to show the videos, which I assume they would, not showing the incidents, is at the very least, lazy by World Rugby.
I was hoping to hear your views on the Italian players taken out without a ball in sight by wales players. Similarly, I was looking forward to hear your views on the Irish try disallowed (thought it was grounded) but with a Scottish head shock. I thought it would have been at least a penalty.
Thank you, Mr Owens. I love your analyses. We miss you on the rugby pitches. You're always at the top of your game, even when you're not refereeing.
Great series, but can't the powers that be let Nigel use video footage?
Another good video Nigel, Although I must admit I was watching the antics of your dogs half the time, they looked like they were having a great time on the haystack. I bet they have a wonderful life on your farm!🐕🦺😀
As long as you are not in possesion of the ball when you go into touch, you are entitled to reach out and put downward pressure on the ball even if your body is in touch! I think you'll agree Nigel.
All the best to Dr James, fantastic man and looked after the boys on a few Lions tours. I wish you all the very best in your retirement.
brilliant NIGEL i love your talk and explanations that you offer. keep the videos coming please.
One thing Nigel hinted at, though didn't say outright, is that when there are fewer than three points in the game and very little time to go, referees want to be absolutely sure before they give a penalty, at least within kicking range, because of the impact it is likely to have on the result. I get the impression that Earl's 'no arms' tackle was called in to Gardner by one of his assistants and I am sure he will be disappointed, looking back, that he gave it, because that decision decided the match and I think it's fair to say that it wasn't clear cut.
Or maybe you can just make a regular tackle.
Owens usually backs the ref's decisions, as he knows how scrutinised and unfairly criticised they are. He chose not to this time. Which speaks volumes.
10 minutes of sitting in the fence, Nige.😂
Had to watch this video twice, one time for the doggos, another time for the explanation.
Check that, a third time for the explanation cause the doggos had me lose the thread of the explanation a second time.
Thank you for all your coverage, Nigel. You really add to the 6 Nations. Keep them coming please.
0:36 - Forgot to listen to Nigel for a few seconds there.
Owens normally says when he agrees with the ref on the day, but he doesn’t with the Earl decision which is very interesting.
Also, the decision to penalize Earl came from the TMO, therefore, the ref was just following an instruction
@@rabbitss11TMO is only allowed to interject if it is only clear and obvious error by the ref.
This wasn't clear and obvious.
Shouldn't have happened.
@@leonmantey716 I agree, the TMO should have stayed quiet but they can't resist it can they
I agree that the TMOis the refs assistant the referee isn’t the TMO’s assistant! Too many TMO’s take over the decision making when NOT asked by the referee for their opinion which it is up to the referee to consider if they agree with!
Anyone else just watching the Alsatians. 😂🤣
Well this is now a waist of time..use to like Nigel giving his opinion, being in agreement or not, enjoyed hearing what his interpretation and decision would be. “Tell me what you think” no, I’m interested in what you think Nigel.
As an Italian, the only sad thing about this six Nations is to see Nigel Owens sad about the Welsh wooden spoon :)
Like all Welsh people, we were sad for Wales but very happy for Italy. Italy deserved a better place after their draw with France. I don't understand how the French came second. Cheers from France
Bit of a cop out on the Ben earl decision. Liked you to share your actual opinion on that one Nigel!
If you've watched these before, you'll know that Whistle Watch will never criticise or correct a refereeing decision, which does make this a pretty pointless feature.
he also never fully backs a 50-50 call that went France's way....Never. It was the same for the disallowed scottish try.
@@David-ud9ju ah my bad - i've watched a few and didn't realise i've been disappointed each time!
@@David-ud9juWell, it’s not pointless. Whatever is said, we will still have our own opinion. We have been told what to look for. When we’ve found it, the idea is that if we are objective we will discover what is Nigel’s view. It’s engaging and educational and interesting. He could just tell us, agreed, but that’s just his decision and causes a difficulty for his objective role in the future (would for me, anyway). There is only one ref whose opinion counts and that’s the one on the pitch. I’m not being snot-nosed, although I fear you may think that’s exactly what you think of this reply.
One of the features of the last few years has been the encroachment onto the pitch by players warming up near the in goal area when a try is scored. If you look at the French tries scored in the England game the players were on the field of play before the ball was even touched down. Its been largely ignored to date but at some point it is quite feasible that with all the hugging and celebrating a player, not necessarily on the try scorers side, will be injured. What happens then? Is the try disallowed? Surely the laws of the game only allow fifteen players on the field. As examples for France's first try there were at least four players in the in goal area. In the 46th minute English players were in the field of play to celebrate England's try. In the 55th minute, there was a French player in the in goal less than two meters as the ball was touched down from both the try scorer and an England player.
The English said he was legal, the French says he wasnt, France won! Brilliant Six nations this year. See you all next year!
I’d love to see analysis of these 50/50 decisions (eg: the head clash red/yellow). Broken down on a team by team basis. Statistically, over a number of seasons, each team should find themselves getting 45-55% of these decisions in their favour. I’d love to see if certain teams (England, ABs) came out well on top (75-80%)?
Je n'écoute même pas cet homme qui nous a enflé tellement souvent 😅
Good lad! Thank you and all the best with those beefs!
Basically, if the ref says it is a foul, IT IS. end of
What about the Pani Vs Mason Grady collision Nigel? It sounded like you disagreed with that on the commentary.
Great work Nigel!
Nigel Owens is great.
For me the Eliot Dee try for Wales v Italy, should have been a penalty to Italy, for holding on as the Italian player had his hand on the ball as the jaggler.
Bit of a waste of time without video. Is there a problem with copyright?
Beautiful dog 🙂 I wonder if Nigel had to throw that stick between each and every take?
The first no arms tackle in France/England was missed mistake. 2nd no arms tackle was picked up. Are refs not allowed to make a mistake???
If you watch the Earl penalty in real time, his right arm is attempting to wrap but his hand hits the floor as he's trying to make the tackle. So it looks like it's a no arms tackle. Another reason it looks bad is because Earl is trying to avoid a yellow/red by hitting the French players head in the tackle, so he's intentionally trying to tackle lower than normal because the French player is falling. Look at 1.31 the french player is already falling with the ball before he's been tackle so Earl has no choice but to tackle by landing with his knee on the floor first. I think it's extremely soft penalty defiantly at that stage of the match. Allowing a soft penalty to decide the outcome of the game doesn't sit right.
The dogs were thdoggone. extra bit. Good doggos.
Ben Earl incident should not have been a penalty exactly because as you eluded to, there were several similar instances in the game where it was not penalised. Once again lack of consistency and knee jerk last minute decisions decide a very close game.
I see you explain a lot, but you never explain your own choices. At least the ones I suggest. So I suggest you comment on your penalty try against Brook James in 2014 (or for Marcelo Bosch) in the Hcup 1/2 final. And concomitantly, to comment on your refusal to whistle the penalty try against Zebo in 2018 (or for Ashton) in the Hcup 1/4 final.
Love your dogs, Nigel!
Yes good fans questions.
Viva la France
Vive l'Empereur 🇫🇷
Let's have it right,all those decisions were the wrong calls! Perhaps the French knock on wasnt clear enough, although the ball does seem to change slightly. But the rest are clear! Obstruction YES, direct head contact without mitigation YES, attempted wrap YES, double movement YES, all clear and obvious IMO.
Heh Nigel - How do you debate an angry Welshman about the worlds best cheese? Caerphilly.
Refaire les matchs a posteriori ça commence à être saoulant
The most important and unfair is that France and England were unlucky against RFS at CDM because of the referee sure
this is "world rugby" content...why don't you show us some replays
Come on world rugby, where is the world cup final whistle watch? I saw one for every round of the WC apart from the final and then for every round of rugby in the 6N since the final. So what happened? 🤔
Has Nigel done voiceovers for Fireman Sam
Nigel, is it legal for the defending team to intentionally pull an attacking player over the try line knowing they have the coverage to hold it up? Attacking team no longer gets the 5m scrum so surely there is an incentive to kill momentum of a team by doing this? Interested to hear your thoughts! Thanks, Callum
In previous weeks, Nigel has been clear when he thought it was the correct decision. Enough said.
Okay Nigel, so it’s not illegal him going to ground as he made the tackle ………..point number one ticked off.
Next, is he making an attempt to wrap? Nigel does not commit, when you watch it in SloMo or in real time. The player clearly is huge and goes over the top of Ben Earl who would only wrap into thin air underneath his legs. So what is it is he attempting to wrap? or is he going for a shoulder Without wrapping? It’s clear in my mind it’s not obvious either way if you go into a tackle shoulder first which anyone who has played Rugby knows you do and your arms are behind your shoulders then that is not making attempt to wrap. Earl looks like he is putting his arms out and making some kind of attempt to wrap, therefore no penalty. That’s all you had to say Nigel? Nigel is asking us to go and have a look at it, so we have to go through the whole match to see if there are any other instances of this occurring during the game. I simply don’t have the time to do that. Does anybody else? If you have, please let me know.😂
You have lovely dogs Nigel
Captain Cop-out!
errr the French deliberate knock on the ball goes forward into the hands of a French player - apart from the laws of Physics not allowing a ball to move in a different direction on it's own accord there were clear pictures of it hitting the french player...
Perhaps the French director avoided showing the TMO those?? Horrible game all round by Gardner so many poor decisions not just the two spoken about here. The Earl one how many similar tackles by France (and England) on try line in the same game? 4 by France in one England attack not one seen as a penalty... Until the 3 points were required by France
But Nigel - you still don't tell us if you think he wrapped or didn't. Or if you think it was a penalty or not. Bit of a cop out I reckon.
I am a French fan and I find that France won or tied three games with doubtful last second calls. For me, they were probably 1-4. I do admire Ramos for his calm. He had to make the 50 meter kick. He was also shown having good humor with the refs during matches.
About the last kick, a French journalist asked him if his previous miss weighed on him. He replied simply, oh, that kick was completely different on the sideline, and I realized at the moment that I hadn't followed through enough. On the last, he said that he knew he had the leg strength. As he didn't mention accuracy, he appeared not to have been worried about that.
Those attitudes are probably what other kickers try to have also.
Whatever you say is good with me .
Brilliant assessment as usual, thank you Nigel- BBC coverage is so much better with you in the seat (ITV should learn from that maybe). Do you want to see "clever" plays (Zander Fagerson is taken out by Baird) like the West German 11 rolls after a tackle- ask Gazza maybe, NZ are the West Germany of rugby and they will use all of the cleverness available to win- is that what you want OR an honest contest ? Stop the cleverness- crossing and obstruction are part of modern attacks and they are penalties. Wrapping the arms is tough but as you say consistancy is the key- on Egg Chaser they show an exact copy of the Ben Earl position 2 minutes before on the same player- no penalty? I like the way you reffed but I love French refs too- let the players play and only whistle up the clever plays, let rugby be a skills and physical contest not a jiggery pokery that's magic slow down the ruck - Can I say congrats to Thaigh Byrne for holding on at the ruck in the last minute v England even though he was told twice to release by the ref- saved a try- cost Eng a bonus point- would have won the 6Nations if Scotland were not so obsessed with self harm- he could go straight into the NZ team of clever players any day.
What's your opinion on the Italian defender flipping over Tomos Williams from an (IMO) offside position (the failed Wales try)?
Alsatian trying to show off in the background and making a fool of itself!!😃
Luck of the Irish again!!! Porters try clearly not grounded it was held up😮
Ref saw the grounding . I cant say i did but he called it on the field he had no dout. furlongs was a clear try I dont know what the tmo was looking at.
Nigel. Love your work. Lets see more of you. How about commenting on the Southern Hemisphere games. Keep thos dodgy Kiwi's honest.
Looks very clearly like an English penalty to me. A very silly time to give away such an opportunity to Les Bleus.
I am a great fan.
BUT. This TMO mess is ruining the game.
Let the Rerefree do his job.
Otherwise we just play Rugby on the Internet
Am I the only one to regret the reversal of the old tradition that if colours clash, the home team changes its strip? It goes back to the days of both short and long tours, whether 3 games in 4 days like an Easter tour, or 3 months on the other side of the world. It was both practical and courteous, and why should union adopt the customs of lesser sports?
But of the on-field decision is no try for Elliot Dee then surely the TMO can’t award the try because there’s no conclusive evidence that the ball has been grounded, before getting into double movement discussions etc. it’s just like VAR in football, one set of standards (Scotland-France) one week, and another set of standards a couple weeks later
The on field decision was a try.
@@jackcunningham3401 In the Wales-Italy game he says held up and then repeats it to Joy Neville on the mic that for him it is a no try
@@tdubs9726tw oh wrong game sorry. I think the tmo overturned it no? They could see it was a clear try, so they can do that.
Rather than trying to hold up the player on the try area, I think italian player tried to catch the ball, potentially getting a penalty for "not releasing", and this happened before the try line, so it would be a penalty. Am I wrong with this interpretation?
@@diegobenedetti6569 Wales definitely had advantage, although I can't remember what for. I think the correct decision would have been to go back to the penalty. It wouldn't have impacted the game, just pointing out the lack of consistency in the TMO's interpretation of the game
No penalty as it wasn’t consistent through the game
Im disappointed we didn't look a furlongs denied try. But there was a lot of strange decisions in the game. nigel only has a few mins.
Why didn't the ref at least check with video ref on Ben Earl incident as it was so crucial and game changing? Reason, scared of the French crowd! Effectively an unconscious bias which should have at least been checked.
Can't believe that the ref gifted England and France those spots ahead of Scotland.
One day...
Ref didn't think it was obstruction. Ref couldn't see if the ball was grounded but there isn't any evidence that it wasn't? Well okay then 😂 I'd say the ref really really wanted to award that try
The Ireland yellow card for head contact looks awfully similar to the Sam Cane red card in the world cup final doesn't it?
Yes. The Sam Cane red card was a ridiculous decision.
Yes, consistency!!!!
Nigel can you move to the side and talk.. your in the way of your dogs.. I watched it 3 times before I took any notice of what you was talking about.😂
Far too many Six Nations games end on debatable refereeing decisions which leave everybody except the beneficiaries of these dodgy situations totally dissatisfied. This is partly down to poor officiating and also to rules which nobody - not even Owens with the benefit of playbacks and time for analysys in depth - can properly adjudicate-on. It's become a farce in which the outcome of games is a total lottery and the Union game is being ruined.
Disappointed with the lack of commitment in your arguments here!
What's your view with the local TV directors not sharing or delaying sharing replays when it does favour their team?
The French are notorious for this!
The Irish aren't that bad either, in the 6 nations 2023 ames Lowe foot in touch was nether showned wen the referee was asking for all video angles!
For me there was nothing controversial about the Ben Earl penalty, for me there was no attempt to wrap.
I wouldn't have awarded the Dee try. Yes there is an element of Italy pulling over but IMO Dee also propels himself forward from his knees
Biased interpretation refereeing killed my interest for rugby in 95 after Bevan gold watch performance in 95 RWC SF. Pretty every RWC reminded me Rugby refereeing should be considered as seriously as US wrestling at least they don't pretend they aren't biased.
Basically shouldn’t of been a pen England wins 🎉
I agree, you are missed. Interesting to hear all the rhetoric about the French penalty. It would all have been irrelevant if the officials had spotted the last pass for the third French try did not go backwards. To my eyes it was "clear & obvious" yet 6 officials failed to spot it. Presumably it not considered a "key area" any more. Would it not be easier to scrub this rule from the book ?
... the Last pass on the third french is between Penaud and Fickou where there is absolutly no doubt that the pass go backward. Are you sure its the 3rd one.
I guess you're talking about the 1st french try and the pass between Barre and Le Garrec. If the ball is caught slightly forward from where the pass has been made it's because of momentum, it's been many years that the rules of rugby allow the ball to travel forward as long as the passer is throwing the ball backwards with his hands which is clearly the case here.
So no the 6 officials + all the english players didn't miss it they just know the rules of rugby.
Thanks for your clarification. Would you be kind enough to point me in the direction of this rule, I am struggling to locate it ?@@snowmotion9921
snowmotion9921 seems to think it the first try@@adrienlaubard
And no TMO at crucial moments!!! Scandalous.
another big decision Nigel doesn't give his view on the correct decision
It’s funny how the normally decisive Nigel Owens becomes suddenly sat on the fence when it becomes a critical decision between England, beating France or not. I admire his decisiveness and his stickler for the rules, but when he asks the viewer to decide that’s really missing the point of this whole video, is it not? Come on Nigel stick your neck out.
Given the status of the game, why on earth were English officials appointed to the Ireland v Scotland match? Since England were involved in the possible outcome of the six nations, surely this is, or appears to be, unfair to both the teams involved and the officials?
Why do Ireland get so many English officials anyway?
They are professional and neutral so tootle along old chap.
@@dulls8475 you didn't answer my question, which was to Nigel anyway. Nobody's neutral, and it's not fair to put honest professionals into an impossible situation!
@@michaelmccarthy9411 So why do you make a point about English personnel and not other countries??
@@dulls8475 because they're useless!
@@dulls8475 well, my child, this particular referee was so professional that he tried to sin bin a player who wasn't on the pitch!
Nah. We lost.
I miss Nigel as a referee, but not as an accomplice to the IRB corruption.