The Worst Change in Age of Sigmar 4th Edition
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
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Warhammer Age of Sigmar 4th edition is coming soon. I've not got much experience with AOS but I think it looks really cool and the small amount I've played is and interesting change from 40k.
Also Skaven are the best Yes-Yes!
There is, however, one change that has been previewed that completely boggles my mind. It's not a massive issue to be honest, and frankly if this is the worst change in 4th I've seen then AOS 4th will be amazing, but it's still one of those things that just makes me wonder what the actual justification of it is.
To be fair though, I probably don't get it cos I'm an idiot lmao.
0:00 Age of Sigmar 4th Edition looks cool!
0:36 There one baffling change...
0:48 Explaining Wounds
1:19 Counting up or counting down?
1:49 Why AOS counts up
2:03 Changing Wounds to Health
2:34 Boi...
2:44 Justifying this entire silly rant
4:07 AOS players please don't hurt me
4:46 How high can you count?
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Worst change is not making every unit tzaangor
every unit is tzaangors to tzeentch
Be the change you want to see in the world
Wheremst Tzaangorsaurus
as a thousand sons player, I personally feel there's already tzaangor in too many places, lmao
I played an all tzangor list in 40k at a local tournament, my first opponent concede be- fore the end of deployment from fear.
Took off my shoes and counted to 20..... NEW RECORD!!!
Do you not wear shoes?
i can count up to 8 because apparently thumbs don't count as fingers anymore
Yeah the thumb rework in the last patch really did a number of counting
The Bowser SMW Music on the whole 2nd half of the rant is just fitting gloriously xD
Funny that this is an English issue. I played Warhammer Fantasy in 1997 and I am German. The 'Wounds' characteristic had always been LP (Lebenspunkte - Life Points).
So you didn't make a Wound roll to cause Wounds which makes your target's Wounds go down :3
I am dutch, every edition without a translationbof the rules is a blessing up from above, you germans are just insane
I'm very new to wargaming and I was so confused when my friend kept asking me how many wounds my uninjured unit has.
"Dude, its the first round. We havent done anything get. He has zero wounds."
It took me a solid couple of minutes to understand what he was asking.
I hadn't considered that perspective. Makes sense now why the change based on that kind of interaction.
Must have been hard to multi-task while listening to your breathing track.
So I'm new to both AoS and 40k, but when someone explained wounds in AoS to me, my brain immediately compared it to filling up a jar. I know my jar can hold 10, I drop 5 in there, it's got 5 left. It kinda reminds me of how it works in the pokemon tcg, where cards each have an HP that's, say, 90, but damage is counted by stacking little damage counters on it, with nice little numbers to help you count (I believe it's 10 and 50). All this to say that both counting up or down are valid, it's making sure you're looking at it from the right perspective (and also keep a notepad handy, just in case)
I count up in both games, it is fine as long as you are clear about it.
The reason why I prefer counting up is that for chucky models just slapping down however much damage is dealt is much more convenient. No math required, I can do that in other phases and clean it up to use simpler sums if need be.
The issue I find with counting up is, as your opponent, I need to know what max health a model has to know how much more damage I need to do to destroy it. For larger models it's also nice being able to drop down to using a D6 to mark up models when they've taken enough damage as my D8s, 10s, 12s and 20s are a premium lmao
It is not fine and I despise you and your kind with every fiber of my being
@@PaulIsBadAtStuff In Aos you have usually 2/3 big models. You can ask how many health they have. Counting Up is probably done just because using D6 dice is easier or because the terminology said that you apply a wound. I don't think it has much to do with the damage table.
In any case both system are fine as long as both players are clear on it.
As an AoS player I always felt it easier to count up as many units may have 30 or 40 wounds, and then you have to have a lot of dice to show that even if they only took 1 wound. And no matter how much health the unit has the wounds taken is the most important to track and then check do I need to remove a model or not. I think this also has something to do with wounds spilling over into the next model in the unit.
But mostly I would say that it all depends if you started in AoS or 40k
That's fair. I suppose the max wounds you're likely to see in 40k is a Knight at 24, so it doesn't take much to get down to a D20 for tracking
percentiles, my friend. percentiles.
or those clicky magic the gathering life trackers
(playful teasing, not trying to pick a fight)
i dont really see how wounds spiling over into the next model in the unit would make much diffrence? Unless aos is full of 6+ wounds model ig, or should i say health ;)
Also it doesnt matter in which system u start, becouse literally everywhere else, as Paul pointed out, it is counted down, not up, so it takes more time for a new aos player to get used with counting down.
@@hydra1plprivate942 I disagree that everywhere else it’s counted down, I play lots of different games outside of GW and often people count up the wounds. It’s simply whatever you’re used to do when you start wargaming you continue.
Also it's intuitive that since models that have suffered no damage have no dice, models with less marker dice are healthier. In counting down system the models go from having no marker dice around them to having loads of them the moment the model suffered one wound.
I don't play "full" 40k nor AoS but I do play Kill Team and Warcry. In both cases I have friends who count up, and friends who count down and it has never once caused an issue. You simply ask "How much health/how many wounds does that guy have left?" and they answer.
ok but are the ones that do count down aos players?
I think the justification is that moddles bracket at pretty consistent numbers arcoss moddles (like 10 or 15 in 4e or almost every moodle getting it fist bracket at 7 wounds taken in 3e) so you dont have to remeber the individual wounds left for each big moodle you can just see 10 danage taken and know its bracketed
The thing is you still need to know how many wounds left to destroy it, which is an important bit of information. Max health or wounds isn't a stat worth keeping in your head if you can just see remaining wounds. I do appreciate in 4th there aren't several brackets, it's just one "damaged" stage after a certain amount
@@PaulIsBadAtStuff I fully agree im just getting into aos and it can be a chore always asking how many wounds the opponents moddle has left and The only 1 bracket is nice. I prefer counting remaining but I get why they count taken.
Playing 40k I still tend to count wounds suffered xD ... except when I don't. Man I'm chaotic with this...
I agree with the name change of wounds to health. It kinda sucked having the name for the health of a model be the same word as the damage points being allocated to a model.
I can count this much! ✋️🤚
so u are a space marine then
The damage point thing is due to the counting of damage most commonly being done upward, as in from zero to the unit’s health characteristic which is why the battle damaged ability is worded that way
Many people, the majority in my personal experience, don't give a nurgle's fart and just count the remaining wounds/health
NO NO NO PAUL !!! Surely it is more logical to count the number of wounds a model has taken when your dealing with a large number of units. In video games your normally playing a single character so having health as bar which decreases makes sense. That is not how we visually denote a models health on table top. We dont have floaty health bars over them which is sad because that would be really cool. Instead we used wound markers normally dice. So we put a dice down to show how many they have taken. If we take the 40k to count down then logically we should have every model with a dice from the start of the game to show how much health they have. No see already we have a problem with the board covered in dice. If we count wounds then we can see how many each one has taken. Lets not forgot counting up is far easier than counting down. The dial on the toaster starts at zero and you move it up. Paul are you really going to argue against the logic of the toaster design ?
I agree on the counting up/down things
As to the change from Wounds to health. It's got actually a lot more value than what they said about it. The Wounds characteristic comes from a time where if you hit something, and you *wound* it, (and it fails its save,) it takes a *wound*. So every successful *wound* roll results in a *wound* taken. When AoS and 40k both inroduced damage as a weapons characteristic this was no longer true. You hit, you *wound* once, then you do X damage and the target instead takes X wounds. 1 Wound no longer equals 1 wound. So the need to rename the characteristic has been there since 1e AoS and 8e 40k respectively because they used the same rules term for two different things.
I don't see my reason here, so I'll write it myself. For me it's a great change. As a lifelong board gamer, all board games have "unit health" and wound counting up, and every time I tried to play W40k with a system that is contrary to what I had learned, I kept getting the numbers wrong - once I was adding to the dice (so I was basically healing my units by mistake), once I was subtracting from them (correctly applying damage). So yes, a very welcome change for me.
hi paul I LOVE SKAVEN
Counting up makes sense since the models rarely have max health divisible by 6.
I've always tracked wounds this way. Reason being is that it minimizes the clutter on the battlefield. Simply place a token once a model has taken damage and removing it once it heals or dies keeps the playing field cleaner. But that is just my reasoning of why I have always counted up.
Wait what he hell I would HATEEEE this in 40k lol
You can still count down if that makes you feel better. There will be some 2 digit math either way. The Health part just clarifies damage and health as separate thing. No longer wound roll to apply wounds that reduce your wounds
I have never thought of it like this. How i count dmg in aos is both ways, sometimes i just count down and sometimes i just give dmg token. Does it change anything????
The only thing it really changes is clarity, and as long as both players understand what's going on it's fine
I mean I would recommend picking 1 and sticking with it. It can be frustrating to go against someone who flip flops both, cuz you can't get a read on how much is going to be required to kill something. But at the end of the day it's not a *really* big deal as long as you are accurate and willing to help them out.
Its an interesting conversation piece. Its come up a lot while i run games at the flgs, ive always preferred to count up because many systems im already playing, both card, board and miniatures wise do damage allocation instead of health removal.
Even for small health units, its always normal to say, i have 2 damage on this, leave my dice/tokens there and continue on, as long as that social contract was established before the game.
Additionally, In both warcry and wh: underworlds, the primary wounds mechanic is damage allocation. So in my game group its the standard and 40k has been the outlier.
I think wounds is related to hit points in D&D. It's the amount of hits you can get before dying, but since hitting and wounding are two different steps in combat in warhammer, you had to call it wounds instead of hit points. Maybe that's the reason it has been called that way.
I had to count all of the Warhammers, so I can count to 40, and I can do it K times
The reason to keep damage points counting up despite having health that counts down is probably degrading statblocks?
I have played AoS since it got points. I don’t think there’s a single hood justification for counting wounds allocated rather than wounds remaining. Because wounds allocated comes up less in abilities, and it’s more relevant to understand how much HP something has left then how much it’s taken.
I completely agree and it annoys me too. Most of the time it doesn't matter and I even count down but when you have damage tables, it's annoying.
what army would use if your starting warhammer40k
I can’t relate to your rant here.
I have played miniature games and ttrpgs for over 25 years (oh god, I’m old), and most people I’ve met count up.
As far as far as I see it, it’s damage taken. Therefore you count it.
As for how much health some minis might have left? Simply ask. It’s a part of it being a social game.
You’re not a 40k simp that’s why
So now we have health in AoS and damage. Damage is inflicted on a unit now. So if I have a unit of 5 models with 3 health each, and they take 8 damage. I would lose 2 models = 6 health and then have 2 damage on the unit. You place a die next to the unit equal to the remaining damage that wasn't enough to kill a model. Another good change is that 2 damage now follows the unit and isn't tied to a single model in the unit. So if you take 1 more damage later on, you can choose any model in the unit to remove due to reaching enough damage to remove a model in the unit. Since there's no leftover damage, no die needs to be placed for the unit.
I think it makes sense when you consider how units of troops take damage in AoS. Instead of individual models taking damage, the unit as a whole takes wounds. Each time the number of wounds taken equals the health of the individual troops, a model is removed.
As I'm sure you know by now, Paul, I *LOVE* AoS. So believe me when I say, as someone who has been playing for a few years and started this hobby through AoS, I get it. It is genuinely kinda confusing. And I think you're right. If GW was going to change "wounds" to "health," tracking it like a health bar makes sense. So I definitely agree with you in that respect.
However, I have one counterpoint I'd like to make in favor of counting up. Based on the different Faction Focus articles we've seen so far, all of the units that get "battle damaged" or bracket when they take a certain amount damage have it set as a fixed amount, 10 damage. The only exception to this would be the Mega Gargants, which get worse after taking 15 damage. So I can't say which came first, but having almost everything bracket after taking 10 damage, regardless of health I think is a decent bit of streamlining that takes advantage of "counting up" damage points.
I do find it interesting that the bracketing is fixed regardless of the total health. Some things bracket with 4 health left, other bracket with most their health left. I think it'd make more sense to still count down so your opponent knows how much health the model had left without having to remember the max health characteristic, and then add a marker for when it's damaged. DnD uses "bloodied" for being under half HP so it'd be not too bad to have a dice saying it has X wounds left and something like a Kill Team marker to indicate damaged
@PaulIsBadAtStuff That's a very good point! I didn't think of the fact that you wouldn't know how much health is remaining when you count up if you don't ask. I think having a token for "below half" makes sense if you're counting down.
So I ultimately agree with you that counting down is the better move, it just feels more natural. Even I instinctively counted down for like. . . 2 years and nobody said anything to me about it. But I at least think the fixed bracket number takes advantage of counting up in a way that helps streamline the play experience. Assuming you're already used to doing that to begin with at least.
I just remembered the simple reason why counting damage up is still a thing and needs to be. It's because you don't assign damage to individual models anymore. You just track how much damage the whole unit takes, and then pick a model to remove each time the damage assigned to the unit equals its wounds characteristic
Plenty of folks count down after converting to AoS and it’s fine. As long as you clarify to your opponent how you’re counting then it’s all good :)
'Wound' as a word referred to the amount of health a unit had, the damage a unit had received, the step of damage calculation that determined if something would need to be saved, and the amount of damage dealt
This was too many meanings for one word
i just like it being called health, because yeah, wounds sounds weird.
the pokemon tcg does also count damage points upwards like aos.
& the counting up / damgepoint interaction is the exact same thing you mentioned & it would function the same in videogames: gaining max health =/= healing. so if a unit took 10 dmg & has a threshhold were it's attack is weaker when it has 10 dmg, gaining maxhealth doesn't change that. also healing then removes those damage counters. warcry (the aos skirmish game) has damage tokens, so you can indicate the points of damage it took. it's way easier than having a spindown dice for every model imo. it's just way more sensible to be physically tracked in a physical game without having to write it down imo
it doesn't count down health, it counts damage & if it's taken damage equal or greater than it's health, it's defeated. seems simple enough to follow
in 40k, if a damaged unit would gain max hp, do i say that unit gained a wound? that sounds way more counterintuitive & is imo just biased cause that's how you know it. i really enjoyed this change in aos4 cause it's more intuitive towards newer players, especially those coming from outside the tabletop hobby. idk
As someone who started with 40K and has been playing sigmar for at least 5 years now, I also hate how you count up damage in AoS
I used to be able to count to the number after 3 but I forgot
20 years ago game companies were releasing bases that had the models stats on them, you started at max stats and clicked them down as you took damage and the stats all automatically adjusted. I wonder how much demand there would be for something like that in GW products?
Me who has been counting wounds up in 40k this whole time.... 😬
Paul, I get you, but this is a contentious thing in tabletop stuff in general. People love to track things in different ways, counting down is the easiest for others but some people just like to track the damage taken.
My wargaming group has a mix of both which makes it a bit tough to track, but they're all rigid in their ways. I myself use a mix depending on the wounds of the model, and thus how easy one or the other is to use, I don't want to be placing multiple dice by each model
Skaven are the only way I can legally own a rat, so.... :P (I live in Alberta, Canada, one of the few places in the world that doesn't have breeding populations of rats - we get the occasional "infestation" (Alberta Rat Control considers any instance of more than one rat an infestation) though)
But yeah, I do have to agree, why not have the methods the same for both games? Makes life so much easier for those who play both...
The rats you find in the wild are free. You can take them!
@@PaulIsBadAtStuff What rats in the wild? We don't have rats here. Owning a rat as a pet in Alberta is a criminal offense.
I think health is a better wording than wounds. But counting down is def better than up. 'Battled Damaged' should be changed to counting down as well
Love your video. But the wounds counting up from my perspective is a time saving mechanic by starting with the small numbers even if it doesn't make perfect logical sense. By the same token in war games we usually roll to see if a model is wounded before we check to see if the armour is penetrated. Same reason.
Personally, I count up in both games because it’s easier for me in the moment to just count how much damage a vehicle has taken. A lot of vehicles, particular for the Imperium, have nearly identical profiles and so I know what’s what. I also tend to use various other dice (for example, d10’s or d12’s) so I know what the max health is that way.
Honestly, there's a lot of odd decisions in this new edition. The big one for me is the fact they've defined your generic fight / move etc as "Abilities" the same as _actual_ unit special abilities.
Why not make it clearer and differentiate between standard actions and special abilities?
We count down cause we play both 40K and AOS
I love GW and them reinventing a games lexicon every other edition.
Almost all of the GW games have wounds and the concept is explained in a very simple way
I think I'm one of two, maybe the only person at my local store that counts down in 40k.
Ive never counted up in AoS, nor anyone else in our LGS.
"I don't play the game but I feel it really need to be streamlined"
oof
I love AoS4, but counting up makes no sense. I should not have to be constantly asking my opponent how much health their guys have left.
In the few games of 4th I've played so far, I've counted down as a courtesy to my opponents and they haven't had a problem with it.
Terraria underground music from the start but no The Messenger Shoppe theme?
I got my friend group to play dark heresy 2nd edition with me and let me tell you, the amount of times i get asked each session "so having more wounds is l.... good ? Right ?" Kills me a bit at this point.
We have neen playing for a year and its not changed one bit lol
i think it comes from the old RPG games, i don't how D&D is tracking health now, but i remember that you always ticked the boxes (count upwards) when you took damage, depending on the amount of wounds how injured you were, healing was removing wounds and so on.
so since both are fantasy games, maybe they want to keep the bridge between the two, cross pollination
for me it's 40k the one that makes no sense and never played AoS
As someone moving from 40k to aos, counting up makes a million times more sense. I just put a die on the guys base and count up as it takes damage in both games, and in 40k I have to do the math backwards to figure out if I'm in a damage bracket. I don't own a die with the matching amount of sides as there are health on a model so why would I count health down when it's so much simpler to put a d6 with the amount of damage taken to a unit. Maybe I'm crazy, but aos just feels so much better designed than 40k and everyone at my local warhammer store agrees
Surely if a unit has a model with more than 6 health, you'd be going onto a larger dice anyway when it's taken 7+ damage?
@@PaulIsBadAtStuff I just put another d6 on the base, and I only have like 6 models with more than 6 wounds anyway, out of my ~4000 points of models. Also counting up on some models and counting down on others is really hard to keep track of especially for my opponent
Couple of items.
You can still do it the other way. Its book keeping. Keep the books in whatever way works for you.
I always preferred counting up because the zero state doesnt need to start with a die. As for wounds remaining, after i ask once or twice ill remember. Not many things have a ton of odd wound profiles.
Design teams are rather separate between the two games. They learn from each other but don't copy each other exactly.
I've seen a few people talk about the 0 state having no dice. Genuine question: do some people who count down mark every models health before they take damage? Even though I count down, I don't mark anything that's at full health, only when it's taken damage
If you are getting the new 4th edition set, I guess you are done with your pile of shame right? Btw, 4
I prefer counting up, I just find it clunky and annoying to put multiple dice down when my model takes 1dmg, especially If someone plays behemoths with 40hp
Same with using any other duce besides a d6, they just keep tipping over, I rather ask my opponent the remaining hp than a clunky board.
In killteam I count down as troops don't have a lot of hp and most cases if a model takes dmg it's dead or doesn't have 6+ wounds remaining
I think if there were like small dials that covered up to 40 wounds so it stays 1 thing and isn't to big would be ideal and than remaining hp would work better imo
I started with kt18 than a Lil bit of 40k 9th than warcry and as last aos.
In the end Idc what method is used howlong it's clear to each other what we using, worst case we roll off. It's just a preference imo and instead of gw adding one or the other for bracket tables, would be better if they just listed both so peeps can use whatever
I think I can count to 30, and I can count from 90 to 100!
3:38 Doesn't Smash Bros kinda count up? I thought taking damage = increasing your percentage (but I am too bad at Smash to have properly learnt the system)
It does, but there's no cap to how much damage you can take. Instead of just dying at 100 every point increases the knockback you suffer.
You only lose if you are thrown off screen.
While adapting this system for the tabletop would be a lot of fun, I think the game is expensive enough as it is.
As a tabletop dm i count up the damage taken. Its a lot simpler to fudge hp numbers that way just because you dont have to deal with negative numbers.
But when you're playing a competitive game that doesn't have a 'neutral' party arbitrating there is no reason to not count down.
I agree that counting up for wounds makes no sense, I’ve never liked it either. Don’t feel bad about having small hills to die on. Mine is the fact that they’re getting rid of morale. No army in the history of ever fights to the death as standard practice, and the fact that no one ever runs in AoS is absurd to me. And I know arguing for realism in a GW game is asinine, but for me it just breaks the immersion
I’m just glad it seems they got rid of multi tier brackets. I hate the idea of paying points for models that get progressively worse for every other wound they take. Especially when the brackets started after like 2-3 wounds
I keep saying it, GW should add health bars to cards and seperate sleeves so people can mark the health points.
The worst part is that they removed beastmen.
I always count up purely to piss off my uppity 40k players at my store
Ok, so you don't actually count the model's health anywhere with this new system. Not up or down, you simply count the amount of damage it is currently sustaining.
The model could have 10 or 30 health left, doesn't matter, it's bracketed if it's 10 points below the maximum. It's kinda dumb, but that's how it is now.
Aside from that, counting up is generally easier than counting down. For example, if you play a TTRPG and have 50 health, counting up from zero to 50 is way simpler than deducting points from 50. You can test this by counting up random numbers and then trying to deduct random numbers from 50 and see which is easier.
This is subjective but in my experience most people I’ve taught 40k count up just by default because that’s how we are taught and I’ve come to also just count up instead of down because of this at the end of the day as long as you understand how many wounds have been allocated idc how you do it
I can't be objective on how 4th is, considering my army is 100% sacrosanct.
i know i wasn't following warhammer as much the last year but somehow i didn't exspect aos 4th to be the one thing that snuk up on me
Check Rule 14.4. I think you'll find it's just worded weirdly compared to 40k.
Yes, the health, damage, wounds wording is bad, but have you considered what an incredible change this will mean for the TZAANGOR fanbase?
Finally, I can count every single one of my Health Points with a Tzaangor Model
Yeah the whole "wound" thing was always confusing, the normal thing was to use "health" or "hit points (hp)". Saying wounds makes it weird, wish it changes on 40K too
my problem with aos is that its too similar with 40k and with every edition both games feel the same also glad to hear someone likes it i have only been hearing that 4th ed is shit
I don't really see your point tbh. The abilities you mention that "count up" how many wounds you've suffered, cannot be written as counting down as they'd then be affected by increasing your health. Or do you mean that they should be affected by increasing health?
And many rpg settings technically "count up" how many "damage dice" you've suffered but players tend to just count remaining hp because there's literally no difference? Idk it seems like kinda dumb complaint as there's no difference, except some rules would have to be rewritten to be wordier and more convoluted (lord knows gw already has a problem with that, so why complain about the one time they've actually managed to be concise)
There are so few places (that I could find to be fair) where increasing health happens. My idea is to just make them healing even if that would make you go back onto your main profile. Saying "if you have
Try One Page Rules, you will be very welcome into the community.
Paul... Uh... I don't know how to say this, but...
I count up damage. On pretty much everything, especially when I'm the only person looking at the notes. Especially when I'm running tabletop games. It's much easier when running an RPG for my brain to go "This Bozo has taken 35 damage, it has 45 total health. When these numbers are the same, it becomes mortally wounded" than "This Bozo is at 45 minus 35 health, meaning ten health left. when it is at zero health left it becomes mortally wounded."
I've come to realise from the comments that the world is full of crazy count uppers and now I'm scared.
Also in your example isn't the maths exactly the same? This is one of those things that people's brains work differently that I find wild it's very interesting
Sure, the math is the same, but I, personally, find it easier to visualize as a "proximity to death" bar filling rather than a "total hardiness" bar emptying.
That said, I've been playing TTRPGs for a *very long time* and can do it both ways, but when I'm behind the GM screen and the information is only facing me, that's how I run it.
Board game dungeon crawlers usually count up.
Gotta Agree that sound's So wierd? to count up the Damage the model has taken and Not down with the number of wound's it's taken? Maybe that's me just me that just seems more confusing then it really should Be LOL. Your not wrong they should do it like 40k Make it easier for people who play either game to go Oh it's got X amount of wound's left. So odd Also yeah that new Box look's so wicked the Skaven leader riding the Huge rattling is FRICKING AWESOME!
so... they just renamed wounds to health?
I counted up to five, five times so....Eleventy four
I dont understand the confusion? just count down... Its not so diffrent. Just agree with your Opponent on how to display damage taken or health left and let them keep track of the damage taken by their models. Its really just down to communicating with your opponent and there should not be a lot of confusion. The literally only diffrence is as you said, implications for rules questions. The Megaboss on Mawcrusher Gains 1 health, from killing an opponent, but it is not regained, but additional, so It does not benefit him for the Monstertable.
yeah paul i agree with you on this counting up instead of down is confusing and an utter mess gamesworkshop what crack are you smoking?!
All they had to do was just swap the names from the 2 settings. Would've accomplished so much with such a simple change.
at least up to 7, I'd say
I can count to 5 i think
The wording is weird, but it's meant for the new way squads of units take damage? You're supposed to have the entire squad take "damage points", and once the number of damage points exceeds the health characteristic, you remove a model, and subtract that many damage points from the squad. It's one of those "this makes sense in practice, but reading it is fucked" situations. That and your argument is completely valid for any non-squad unit like any big monster, where this is still just awkward AF...
As a AoS player who has played sonce moustache rules.....why are you counting up? Damage points is just how much you take and relates to the save.....the brackets are just the differential.....maybe im dumb buy the methodology described in this video hurta my brain
It's for when you mark the models on the board to remember how much damage something has taken. Because AoS uses damage taken rather than wounds remaining, my understanding from seeing AoS is that you mark the models based on damage taken to make referring to the table quicker
@@PaulIsBadAtStuff you can but usually at GTS and RTs(granted I'm not a top table player) I've seen both and it's usually something you confirm with your opponent how you do it. At least around me most count down
Yeah I agree. The thing is based on what I've seen on AoS the consensus is counting up because the bracketing tables are based on damage taken not health remaining. You can do it either way, I just think it'd be easier to standardise it across all games so that discussion doesn't need to happen or cause confusion if people aren't aware of it - basically the concept of Hard to do Harm
Maybe it's because I am not a native speaker, but calling health "wounds" always slightly confused and bothered me. So finally renaming that characteristic to "health" is much appreciated.
As for tracking remaining health or suffered wounds: I am sure that I have seen other games (mostly board games though) that use tokens to track wounds suffered instead of health remaining. So it is not totally unique to Age of Sigmar.
"In AoS you count upwards with wounds" Yeah no, that's stupid. Nobody does that in AoS my dude.
As far as complaints go with AoS or 40k, this is very low on my list... the gross simplification of rules just makes the game bland, but also tailoring the systems balance to how they want certain units to sell is on the same level as loot crates in video games.
I'd argue counting up is easier, due to models receiving bonus health by various means. As 40k's system effectively wants you to keep track of wounds taken, plus wounds added ro total health pool. Which means you need to count down and up simultaneously...
The Age Of Sigmar version just needs you to go one direction for both.
This just in, GW can't template rules. Later, Pope is Catholic.
I play AoS every week. And I count DOWN. For one simple reason: I want my opponent to know, how much health a unit has left.
They dont know my army and the cant bother to remember the healthpool of my models. Its simple and far easier.
Mawcrushers ruining aos rules since 2.0
funny silly rant, health goes up LoL