Seiko Prospex Marinemaster - SJE101, Next Great Seiko? Plus; SLA017, SLA039, SKX009, SPB143, SPB333
![Average Bros [Mark Alamares]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/AMTyfBoS_HGUS5NeMIdml3FQHYPLCvE10yYPfvjGSZRfNEkgmgSJlVqPFEQ4yky_fTnRrnqQ=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- www.belmontwat...
• Closing thoughts:
o On wrist - Super wearable and screams quality slotted between your standard SPB and SLA lineups
o Model variants - Also available in light/dark-blue SJE099 and limited edition white/SS SJE097
o Comparable models - Well spec’d competitor to Tag Huer’s popular Aquaracer dive line ($2,850 MSRP @ similar specs) BUT also, I think the spiritual parallel to the Tudor Pelagos 39
Not as much as a direct competitor to the $4,700 diver but in terms of it being quite a divisive release for enthusiasts, while a clear winner for newer customers who’ve enjoyed the classic aesthetics but previously held off due to the larger sizes
Some enthusiasts will appreciate the unique feature set, while others won’t be able to get over the omission of certain details, they felt were key to the Pelagos or in this case Marinemaster namesake
o Bottom-line - If this was a slim 39mm Grand Seiko diver, it might be 20-30% nicer but also cost 2-3 times as much and if you must have that signature 6159 aesthetic, you still have plenty of other options to choose from throughout the SPB ($1K) 6R, SLA ($2,800-$6,800) 8L, or SNR ($5-6K) spring drives
Wow! Such a great balance of functionality, wearability and class without screaming look at me, but just enough to catch your eye! I reckon they nailed it
Seiko folded diver extension will be guaranteed to dig into my flesh after a few hours of wearing. The marine master clasp is a must-have upgrade!
This one is the best colourway out of the 3 releases, just wish it was a simple black shiny dial with no pattern, it would’ve been perfect!
Looks great! Better than the initial press photos thanks for sharing and comparing to my other favorite seikos . Definitely will have one of these on my future list.
I don't get the hate this watch is receiving. I adore this watch. I think is perfect. So, for me Seiko made it perfect! I will get this watch soon.
People are silly, this 6L37 movement is an upgrade to any ETA2892 and has been designed for longevity and shock resistance of professional dive watches. The case finishing is excellent, proportions excellent, diashield is awesome and stands up to Bremont / Sinn case hardening but with more complex finishing. Bracelet is not the best but that’s Japanese watches for you. They are truly in-house and not ordering a clasp from a Chinese supplier. For me if a future limited edition comes out without the waves I’m all over this watch.
Finally pure class w all the indexes in their places. Love it!!
I like the concept and execution of this piece!
Great super in-depth review. I can't wait to see what else Seiko does with this movement and future colourways for this line. They are stepping up in 2024.
Thanks and agreed, it's nice to see them pushing into fresh territory
You could not have addressed the knee jerk reactions to this new release any better - nailed it 😎🍻
Love the finishing and bracelet on the new Marinemaster!
I could see myself saving for a while then selling my SPB185 to pick this one up. I've been really interested in the SJE and SLA lines lately.
Same here.. gonna pick this end of this month can't wait 🙌
Great review with considered comments throughout! Cheers.
Thanks, I appreciate that!
Mark, thanks for another context rich review of what I think is a really interesting watch from a design perspective. To me this watch echoes back to a time in the near past when Seiko dive watch design was more forward looking. Models like the Stargate, the Trans Ocean and even the original Sumo brought elements of the past but with modern twists. I hope to see more of these designs in the future and that Seiko could bring us a 40-38mm diver into the affordable category. I wish that the Solar Diver from a few years back had an automatic version. Thanks again Mark and I look forward to the next one. (Seiko 5 Field GMT coming soon…)
This is the most beautiful watch i have ever seen 😢 too bad i can never afford it. Man that watch is beautiful!!
8:23 we can also swap that clasp out for another 18mm OEM Seiko clasp that has a diver’s extension, a milled swing arm, and 4 micro adjusts. That’s what I would do, anyway.
Personally I think this is one off Seiko's best looking watches and there is no reason to be defensive about it. . I love the dial, love the porthole date. I really want to get one in my hand to check out the textured dial.
There are 4 things I have an issue with for the price. 45 hour power reserve isn’t great, the x on the dial but the big ones for me are the bracelet/clasp combo which I have to consider disposable, I like a bracelet to fit perfectly and on the fly adjustment is essential for that.
I didn't know what to think about this one, at first it seemed expensive compared to my SPB143 and Internet wasn't very excited about it, now I have seen your video I absolutely want one. I wish Grand Seiko would use that case shape, proportions and hand set I would beg them to take my money would probably my favorite watch
Such a great collection. Thanks for sharing. I like them all especially this one. Too bad it doesn’t have signed crown but I guess it’s part of the quirkiness of Seiko
I think its fantastic!!!
For 3 grand UK I expect the end links to match the head of the watch. One of my biggest complaints with seiko is they are so lazy with bracelets. I do actually really like the watch overall though. Maybe once the inevitable big discounts start bringing down that price a bit I'll pick one up
Oof. I'll be looking forward to this. Yes, I smashed the bell
I think this is the best diver they have introduced, best looks and hopefully the movement proves to be better than the 6R. May not be for all, but i love it.
The 6L is comparable to the ETA 2892, so it's definitely better than the 6R, it just doesn't have the extended power reserve since it's still 4Hz
@@AverageBrosfor me, power reserve is a meh point, 48hrs is perfectly sufficient and I’d rather the higher beat and better accuracy for sure! Not expecting METAS or cosc but at least consistent 👌 will be on the hunt for one of these now!
Mark is clearly frustrated with the seiko hate bots copying and pasting on every youtube video and it shines through brilliantly in this video . Hopefully some of them watch it and actually take in some useful information 😄
more likely though that instead of listening there will just be a flood of comments along the lines of:
1)This looks good for $1000. Hard Pass for $2800
2) This isn't a Marinemaster! No monoblock case? No 300m WR?
3) For this price I could get a "BB58/Omega/Pelagos etc" - EXCEPT THEY ARE ALL $4K+ MSRP
4) I'll never pay $2800 for Seiko's crappy QC.
5) Is that Bezel misaligned?!?!?!?!?!
also I can't get over how beautiful that SKX mod is!
I like this, but Seiko can never give us all the beans. Like this clasp is a god damn embarrassment. I’m sorry it’s junk for the price. I’d still buy this for $1800 or something pre owned or lower in the future though
yeah. I am interested to see what these will go for used. If I can get a good deal on a lightly loved used example, I'll snatch it up. Not paying full retail, and not even with a discount (the usual discounts). @@Billeh556
Nothing you said is wrong tho...that's the ironic part
@@jaer.6540
1) name a watch at $1000 which is fully vertically integrated/in house and has this level of fit and finish
2) you don't know Seiko better than Seiko knows Seiko
3) already explained - the frequently mentioned Swiss counterparts are still at least $1000 not expensive
4) As if the SLA and SJE models are made in the same factory as cheaper models? No one has QC issues with them any more frequently than they do with Swiss luxury
5) the bezel is clearly aligned
I’ll add one: A 38.5 mm Marine Master??! 🤢 Keep it!!
Whoa. More baggage unloaded in this video than the International Terminal at LAX. But I can understand the reasons why...
The SLA025 is a special watch. Seiko re-created the 1968 original with incredible detail. That's just one of the many reasons why it won the 2018 GPHG award for sports watches. And there are at least two additional versions that stay very true to the original 6159 diver, including the SLA017 that Mark keeps in his collection (the other being the SLA019).Because of my personal preferences, I am not the purchaser for this watch. But I still watched this video because Mark is a knowledgeable person with opinions worth listening to. I like that Mark has a deep understanding of Seiko movements. For example, I really appreciate his discussion of beat rates and power reserves. Going for 72 hours while beating at 3hz is lame. If there is no historical reason for your movement to be at 3hz, then it can and should be 4 hz. To paraphrase Ice Cube, y'all f@ck at a snail's pace.
Mark, keep doing your thing. Don't let the turkeys keep you down. Many of us appreciate you.
great review, the finishing looks really good!
I really like that they put a display case back. All watch should have
I still miss the beloved mm300. The blue mm300 is my grail.
No need to miss it when you can still purchase them 😊
This gives me Tudor sub vibes in the best way
I've been admittedly resistant to accepting this new model line at the beginning... For nearly all the reasons you've inevitably heard already. Not going to regurgitate the same crap.
Only lately have I begun to open up to this one and kind of considering one now. It's both familiar and original at the same time and I can't deny the premium offerings this has. Thinking about the LE white dial version. Will see.
It grew on me as well, I may be one of the few Seiko collectors who really like this one. Although, I feel like for many who don't collect a lot of Seiko, I could see this easily fitting into more diverse collections, as maybe one of their only Seikos. As weird as that sounds 😂
I do not understand this preoccupation with power reserve on a mechanical watch. If you wear 'm in rotation, a day extra won't matter one iota, If you wear it as a daily, you just won't take it off more than incidentally. It's not a topic. While I know Seiko underpromises and over-delivers, I wish they'd specify a tighter accuracy tolerance.
I'll pick one of these up in light blue, and the 6L is a delight in the other two watches I have that feature one.
An extra day matters if that's the day that it runs out of power on.
Love your schooling of the haters, Mark! I do like this watch and how Seiko are trying something new but still within their diver DNA. The only thing not quite to my taste are the bezel numbers every 15 minutes instead of 10. Though I love the overall bezel design and how they dotted every minute.
Thanks, I took a lot of flack for not jumping on the hate wagon dismissing this release but I've read way too many comments over the past 10+ years of people literally asking for the exact features this watch has. It's not perfect, but no watch is. Even timeless classic's from Rolex have people arguing over 1mm differences here and there 😂
I’ve got the SNR043, but this one looks awesome. 043 feels like 6k watch, this one looks at least as good as retail , nice review
looks really nice the quality and design, idk just take off the marinemaster logo lol
Don't forget about the Prospex logo everyone is allergic to! 😂
Thanks for the review.
I’m convinced half of the comment section is trolling.
Hadn't realized this is a 4hz movement. Still don't need to see it lol. Rather save even more thinness with a closed caseback. Interesting release from Seiko.
And maybe hit 300M water resistance.
Think it is a good looking watch. Reminds me of the sla055 a bit. Some how the dial and bezel look busy, over done together? I think this new series is good value purchased at retail discounts. A lot of watch for the money.
But, there can only be one.......highlander. MM 300 ......😂
Fair enough, the design upon initial viewing didn't wow me either but I will say in the metal it absolutely won me over and considering I have so many Seiko divers with their signature design, it was nice to have something that felt different enough, while still feeling totally Seiko.
@@AverageBros think it is really handsome. Congrats on getting it. If i didnt have too many divers, i would most like buy one
You mentioned the dampened bezel action and visually I can see the watch turns a lot before the bezel starts to click. Would you say this is close to the SPB143's bezel in that regard? I haven't been able to find an SJE101 in stores yet, and I'd be concerned if the bezel turned like the SPB143. It's the only thing I don't love about that particular watch. I'd hope for a bezel closer to the SKX007 or Samurai.
Still no micro adjust clasp is a deal breaker for me again !!!
Love the rest of the watch though !
The micro adjust clasp on the Certina DS 17:53 80 Diver is excellent ?
Oh man, I want it!
SLA017 still the grail watch for me!
i have one of these and I think this is one of the best watches Seiko has made for years. I call it the Sour Grape to peoples reaction towards it.
I luv Seiko ❤️ 💯💪⌚️🤓
Can we get a Seiko SPB453 vs Seiko SJE101
damn i need one, looks better then most of my grand seikos :)
He literally bullied me into liking this watch.
Bwhahahahahahaha, thank you for that!
What I love about 430 date windows is how they immediately cause me to know that I'd never buy the watch.
Okay, that was good, lol
Agreed
I like these new MarineMaster models. The size is great, but I still think they’re a little too expensive. They should have an actual ceramic insert for the price. The end link fitment should be better designed (they don’t sit flush with the lugs). The clasp is OK but I’m really tired of people making excuses for Seiko bracelets. They should be making better clasps at this price point. Finally the movement tolerances should be much better for a watch h this price (COSC). Overall I think the watch doesn’t deserve the hate it’s received so far. Seiko has yet to make the perfect watch that does it all.
The size is great for women.
@@adamski101 And Men. Dive watches are all trending to sub 40mm size. Look how popular the Tudor BB58 and BB54 are.
And they never will. That's how it works! All rolex will leave something to be missed so you want to buy the next rolex.
I'm confused .. 62 MASrinemaster?
mm 62? 🤷♂
Considering the MM300 doesn't reference the 6159-7000 it takes inspiration from, I don't see why this MM200 would need to reference the 62MAS in it's title either. It's just the new Marinemaster.
@@AverageBros The Marinemaster is its own thing. Why is it looking like a 62 MAS now?
@@m.l.679 Did you watch the video? The Marinemaster moniker isn't, nor was it ever, simply relegated to the design language of the 1968 6159-7000 saturation diver.
@@AverageBros Yes I did. You're trying too hard here with the 1968 reference. For most people, the Marinemaster name refers to the Tuna 300 or 1000m or to the SLA021J1 (the model Bruce Williams bought and sold many times).
Why is the Marinemaster name now on a watch that is clearly designed after the 62 MAS and not on the latest Tuna for example? I feel confused about this and I'm probably not the only one in the watch community. That's all I'm saying.
Would like to see you review a SNR
Me too! I've seen a few in the metal and was impressed with how surprisingly well they wore.
@@AverageBros I have the 029 feel like it's one of the best watches out there.
Nice review of an interesting watch. It’s not for me though. I find it a bit odd that Seiko didn’t put ‘Marinemaster’ back on the MM300 instead.
Fair enough, I get that. I did my best to help apply a deeper context to the Marinemaster naming convention and the significance of Seiko starting a new, while also going back to the beginning. In the end, it's not for everyone but I hope that folks who may be interested in the model not let the MM text steer them away from a great release.
I lwant this watch but without the teak dial, i want it in only black.
I've noticed most of the naysayers of the new Marinemasters have no educated opinions on them based on actual experience and/or don't do anything remotely related to what they proclaim a "real" Marinemaster should be used for. Just an observation. In the flesh, all I can say is IYKYK.
I love it.
Looks like a miyota 9015 as slightly more power reserve and has the same beat rate similar thinness
The 4L movement the 6L was based on was released well before the Miyota 9000 series, but they were both developed to rival the ETA 2892 in thinness and specification, so it's not surprising that they all share some similarities
Best seiko diver for sure
This should have been a King Seiko diver.
I sold all my Seiko divers, well most of them from SLA037, 093, 043, 143 a few baby marine and turtles. Sold them all but I'm keeping my SJE093 on a quick release tropical which I love. I done and onto the new Blancpain fifty fathoms 42mm in Titanium 23 is an amazing watch. Honestly I dint like this watch at all.
Everything its great, except that date window. And that movement for that price is a slap in the face
This movement architecture has been in far more expensive watches and if you consider Soprod's Swiss A10 and M100 movement which were also based on the Seiko 4L, brands continue to charge a premium for this movement, even when in just a non-in-house drop in capacity.
@AverageBros thats still not a good justification for the price. Seiko continues to put in step down movements in their watches and then overcharge. And frankly watch lovers are getting sick of it. This is the 63mas issue all over again. It's a nice looking watch but at some point you have to draw a line
@@jaer.6540 what is the 6L a step down from though?
How is it a step down?
Beautiful watch but how do you think it compares to the Christopher Ward Trident 300 which has similar specs, a bracelet with an on-the-fly adjustment and is less than half the price?
I love Christopher Ward but they have yet to release a diver with any sign of enduring design power. Like a cell phone or many cars, every model is dated after a later release. I have a pretty huge collection of C60 Tridents and none of them have felt special beyond the releases of a newer model. They're amazing on paper and wonderful while new but as a collector, enduring enjoyment is a large factor for me. Time will tell though and CW is a much younger brand by comparison, so it is a bit like comparing a classic sports car to a new well spec'd and priced commuter car. One resonates more with enthusiasts and the other with value shoppers. There's nothing wrong with that though and a value shopper can absolutely love their well appointed and even fully loaded daily driver but it's just not really directly comparable to something with this much brand history and distinct design DNA. A bit of an apples to oranges comparison.
@@AverageBros - really appreciate your response.
How would you compare this model to the Oris Aquis Date? Thank you
Monta ocean king v3 for me.. Now, if seiko would get there shhh together and make an og MM300 in a 39-40mm id be all over that ..
The 42mm MM200 already wears like a 40mm, so I'm not 100% sure it would scale down as well as you're imagining. I do love the Monta OKv3 though, was wearing it last night and agree that it's a great choice.
@@AverageBros Nice I'm jonsing for that Monta tbh..I have the mm200 steelmaster in the collection but it just doesn't feel as refined as the og mm300 for obvious reasons..I've always dreamt for a possibility for an og 300 in a smaller size built to the same specs/refinement...
The new mm200 already has a 40mm bezel so you should try that- great watch!
@@flow2tech they kind of already did what you wanted. Check out SLA055/057. It's a 200m SLA.
Alternatively for a more refined steelmaster check out the new GMTs SPB383 etc. They are much more refined than previous 1968 SPBs.
I don't think you'll ever get a 40mm 300m mono block case as it would look too tall for it's width
@@flow2techThe MM300 wears very small because the dial is so tiny.
How does the quality compare to a black bay 58?
Hey man, so how does the watch look on a nato or sail cloth? Been super curious on how it would look
A deep gloss black dial would've been perfect. No patterns please - too "noisy"
Just a copy from Omega dail
Very nice watch, but can anyone please explain to me, why this is double the price of the SPB383?
Finishing and movement..
Never knew Seiko made Submariner copies😵
I've owned a few high end Seiko divers. The quality will be there and I have no problem with the price. However, this is my least favorite Seiko release in the 5 years I've been in this hobby. This watch is just a design mess. Looks like a confused mod to me. Can't stand the after thought date window. Especially considering it's so beautifully done on the SJE093. Bracelets never look good on these cases. Also just wish they would save the display case back for the 5KX. Ok rant over haha.
Like I said, If you like this watch, you'll be impressed with the quality. Liking it is the major hurdle for me
I always cringe when people regurgitate the "Afterthought Date Window" take, I mean it's actually a very deliberate choice to meet the updated ISO guidance. Just shoehorning in a lume plop next to the date at the standard 3 o'clock is a clearer afterthought by honest comparison.
It's not for everyone, no product is, let alone something as personal as a premium mechanical timepiece, in a world abundant with cell phones. My main issue with the reception of this release are those taking it as some type of direct attack on their personal values. Like I mentioned in the video there are an abundance of products that don't resonate with me, but they don't trigger me enough to provoke such reactions.
@@AverageBros that's just my opinion. I'm not cringing because you like it. I just think it looks so darn cheap just slotting a date window there. Like the designer forgot to do it and they just punched a hole in the dial at the last minute. I much prefer something framed. The SJE093 solves the ISO issue and still makes it look nice. We can agree to disagree. And no offense, but you seem a bit triggered by people who disagree with you. Kind of what happens in the comment section
@@watchdogpodcast239 hmm, well to be clear I'm not at all upset by your comment or opinion and my apologies if my reply came off as such
@@AverageBros it's all good man. We all love watches and sometimes we get passionate about them. I enjoy your vids! Hope you have a great day!
I'd like a solar quartz version.
It's nice but £3k? Not sure about that.
So devil's advocate on the tooless quick adjust, why doesn"t Seiko just use the design for current Astrons on everything at that price point and above? And I'm asking that as someone who, so far likes that racheting diver's extension better than the "real" quick adjust features found on more expensive watches. It would eliminate one of the most consistent gripes people have about Seiko watches.
Also, I will admit I hate the 50 Fathoms Swatch, but I'd never tell someone they are wrong for liking it. We all buy these things to satisfy an emotional desire and I can't tell anyone else what they are feeling when they look at or wear a watch. It bugs me that Swatch Group want me to pay more for a plastic watch with an unserviceable movement than I paid for my Casio Oceanus which I love and which to me could be a one watch collction, but that doesn't mean it has to bother you too (especially since you might have no interest in something like that Oceanus). If it makes you happy, you should wear and enjoy it.
I made a whole video about the Astron clasp and how Seiko should be using it on everything 😂😂😂😂
@AverageBros I'll have to check that out. I've seen a couple vids from you on your Astron and soon I should have a (different) Astron of my own so I can compare its clasp to the Marinemaster clasp.
@@danielgrant9213 ua-cam.com/video/-KhfZEwPD3A/v-deo.htmlsi=_MTBIAus7tA0DEnZ
@@AverageBros Nice video. And OI agree the Grand Seiko (and also your Astron) as eye candy were fun.
It's great but I get 62 mas vibes still
Well, it is a 62MAS reimagining, so that makes sense
SPB 381 looks so much better.
381 looks bulkier, but both are good designs though
Seiko and it's 15 to 20 seconds time losing everyday in automatic watches 😢. For this price, it should be better.
I'll still never buy a Seiko with that X on the dial.
That clasp is so bad. It's the only thing i don't enjoy in my spb149. The pos dive extension digs in to my wrist and is really uncomfortable. And the best thing is, the extension is completely useless. No one is going to use it, it's so poorly done. Sharp edges with cheap stamped metal. Seiko makes incredible watches, but i don't understamd why they don't take the effort to design some decent bracelets..
How thick is the clasp?
7.2mm at its thickest point vs. the 9.2mm for the MM300 ratcheting clasp
Heaney Green
Too many elements packed into one watch. making it difficult to identify and stay focused with their design. Teeth is too big for my liking yet the design gravitate towards more modern look which contradict the design language. Very confusing watch for me. SPB series are very tool and royal to its 62 mas heritage.
coated bezel ? not ceramic ? what ?
Seiko is my favorite brand. Yet when they make a clasp with a stupid pressed diver extension that 99.9% of people won't need, and omit 2-3 micro adjustment holes that about 50% of the people will need, then there is no way i will buy this watch! Cheers!
Could probably do better for the price.
Lonnie Run
I also like MaMaCoo replicas. People who don’t wear them like professionals can’t tell the difference. Their workmanship is really great luxuriatey
What u mean? Absolutely not lined
Ugly caseback, ugly date window, ugly place date window
And last: ugly bracelet connection too the case
And at least:
Ugly retail price.
Rubber > Bracelet
Mate why did you start rapping at minute 20:00?
LOL, I truly have the best viewers on UA-cam
@@AverageBros well, you have great content
Price is way too close to a GS, I’m taking SGBN027 anytime
My problem is that this watch is just ugly. Bezel, 430 date, and that case?! What is that case? Ugly
Id pay 3800 for a milled clasp
No you wouldn't
Dibbert Ways
Video starts at 11:17
I don’t like it
Nice but not as handsome as the 62mas
I agree, but after wearing my limited edition SLA017 so regularly last year, it'll be nice to have something less rare and collectable to cycle into the rotation in it's place 😅
What a sacrilege to put the name Marinemaster on this effeminate watch. The name doesn't appear on the MM300 but they put it on this thing???
The ratcheting clasp is legit. The Grand Seiko SBGA 231 did indeed use the same designed clasp. I got annoyed watching this video because it exhibited a degree of Seiko fanboy-ism that justifies Seiko dropping the quality on their products while still charging more. As consumers we need to be critical of what manufacturers are selling us. If we look at Seiko offerings over the last couple of decades it is easy to argue that quality has indeed gone downhill while cost for the consumer has gone up. This is sad as Seiko used to be an every man's watch.
What is this watch a lower quality version of that costs less, tell me?
Christopher Ward
Every Seiko looks like a 300$ Seiko to me.
Fair enough😅
Seiko can make the best dials at app price points but they can't improve their clasps. L
Great review of a not so great Seiko. Feels like a schizophrenic conglomeration.
I'll take the Great Review, thank you helping me though these dark times...
Always enjoy your reviews!
Again Seiko, I'm already very tired of this brand. The content on the channel has become very monotonous, with banal brands and models of watches.
I respectfully disagree. Mark is a lover of Seiko, and has made that known. Mark reviews unique watches, sometimes largely unknown by both consumers and watch hobbyists. Lastly, from affordable to mid-range and luxury, he reviews watches of all tiers.
@@RabbitWatchShop Mark is far from the only watch blogger and he used to have unique content, which is why I ended up on his channel, it’s just that my knowledge and horizons are much wider.
@@lifeHater777 👍🏻
I disagree he provides excellent content and close ups and he also compares to other models side by side. If you are done with Seiko and find this channel boring why are you watching watching the channel and specifically a Seiko review !!