Ford raised the tranny fluid temps starting in 17 to get better mpg. Mine wont get over 210 even towing 20k. Fluid still looks really good at the 50k change interval. Got me worried when i first got mine but we have a few trucks with 300k+ that never had any tranny issues.
Realistically, will your drivers ever use eco mode? Especially since they will virtually never drive without a trailer? I’m more interested to see how they do towing vs the rams. Thanks for the update!
The 2021 f550 i was driving I had it in eco mode and got an entire 6mpg average without pulling anything, it was a utility truck. But shit my 5500 right now averages maybe 6.5
My 3500 6.7 , 2022 used 22.6 on a 330 mile trip. 99% of it was highway between 65-70 mph. Came from a 2011 F-250 6.7. No doubt the Ford was marginally more fuel efficient. More noticeable when towing.
I consistently get 20-22 at 80mph. 2022 Ram 3500 cc lb Sw, not high out put. I’ve changed all the fluids over to high end synthetics & use a fuel catalyst in every tank. Low ash 10-30 engine oil for less regens.
I recently averaged as high as 20.7 mpg and as low as 20.0, with a 20 mile per hour head wind, in my ‘22 SD, CC, LB, 4x4, w/1800 mi, bone stock, set to “normal” driving mode, climbing to 6000 ft and back, 1100 mi trip. Gonna try the eco mode now for sure. Haven’t towed my 20k lb toy hauler yet, but am thinking I’ll get 10-12 maybe?! Climbing 6 & 7% grades will be the test tho. Thanks for sharing. God bless.
you should be able to change that earl pressure to your turbo gauge - this is one thing i really think is a liability with these - a screen for all gauges. my 6.7 powerstroke has the physical gauges which i would miss. as for your trans temp, mine regularly goes to 202 at 70-80 mph, but 208 is a little high for the speeds you’re going. but not by much. i would say it could also be part of the break in process, tolerances and all… i regularly get 26mpg out of mine if i’m driving it economically. it’s also doing fantastic on wear according to black stone reports at 200k, have been using amsoil since 91k i still watch the content on the rams because the videos are informative, and fun - but nice to see you might be becoming a fellow ford guy. 😂
@@repairvehicle i can just share the pdfs with you if you’d like. sometimes way too soon, sometimes if i have to 8500-9000 miles. amsoil keeps it pretty consistent no matter what. about to send one of those extended drain tile samples in tomorrow.
At first I was a little bummed that his 22 Cummins didn’t work out for him. But Paul seems pretty excited about his new Ford HOs. Even though I’m a Cummins guy. I’m looking forward to the Ford content on his channel.
I tested mine by driving from Texas to Montana and back, normal there eco back and averaged out to 21 there in normal and 18 back in eco, convinced it doesn’t do anything other than shift sooner
Keep the videos coming brother. Really enjoy the tow videos. Looking at replacing my 2014 ram 3500 with a Ford F450 in the future. This new truck and your testing will answer the questions I have. Is it worth it or not?
ive always been a ram/gm guy, currently driving a 2022 ram 5500 limited thats a daily driver/welding rig and i quite like it. However things have changed towing wise and dont need the 5500 capabilities anymore. Looking to make a switch back to a 1 ton dually to gain back some MPG/ride quality. Too be honest ive never driven a ford but i am seriously considering a 24 lariat dually. Dont know what to do! i have all 3 brands submitting numbers on comparable trucks so i guess well see who has the best numbers.
I appreciate these videos Paul. I’m currently going back and forth on what truck I’d like to buy as my “final truck”. I’ve always liked Rams, but this new model SD (Limited? Platinum?) and the GMC Denali Ultimate have me wondering which it will be. I enjoy the insight your videos give with these trucks that you cannot get with other truck review videos I see on UA-cam.
skip on the GM products, you’ll be happy with either the Ford or the Ram. Ford definitely has more midrange and top end oomph being a V8. If you get a Ram avoid the 22s as you may have seen Paul has had issues with them.
I can say after 30,000 miles on my 2021 Superduty, most those miles in Eco Mode, that in my experience the mileage is helped a little bit. Not a ton, but enough to save several hundred bucks a year. But, where the eco mode really saves you. Only and maintenance costs is the significant reduction of DEF fluid used. In eco. Ode hardly any DEF is used. I’ve noticed in tow/haul (Even when not towing), Normal, and the Sand mode, the DEF gets sucked down at a much higher rate. I suspect that’s where the real economy is coming from.
I’ll wait to see a 600 mile trip in each mode and hand calculated numbers. I don’t put my faith in the Liometers on trucks especially on such a short run
Two things. The ford trans are thermostated at 190⁰ so you will never see asian trans temps. I have never seen mine over 220 which is perfectly normal for a ford. Also. 6.7 powerstrokes in general run alot hotter oil temps as well.. which is normal also. You never hear about anyone gernading their engine cause of the oil temps getting to 240⁰. In the powerstoke. Just keep in mind. Its not a cummins so dont look at it like it is. Do your home work and see what other people are running and if they have issues running these temps.
I just towed my 6k camper about 300 miles through mountains. The trans would get to about 211 then go back down. Thermostat for auxiliary cooler I suppose. I have a 23 xlt f350 with the standard output.
Don't believe anybody saying they get anywhere near 20mpg with any diesel truck. I saw 19.8 once on my deleted 6.7 Cummins with a tailwind going downhill empty. That's not real world.
My 2018 ram 3500 cummins 4 door 4x4, highway mpg 22 at 70mph hand calculated. By the way with all the emission equipment installed. Zero aftermarket parts but I use best fluids money can buy in my cummins
Thanks for the update! It was regening on your first test, which is why the exhaust filer is at 0. 14 -15 is normal highway regen numbers (what i saw on my 2020 350 6.7). Doesn't need to be in eco mode to get over 22 mpg :) eco might give you .3-.5 mpg improvement
Eco mode = more problems down the road in my mind I hope I’m wrong. Love all the videos and the fact that you are giving all the manufacturers a try. 07 5.9 myself probably be the last new truck I’ll ever own
My 2022 f450 is averaging 1 mpg better than my 2015 Ram 3500 dually with a 3,400lb northern lite camper cruising @72mph. Too bad it's been at the dealer with multiple issues for 2 weeks. The truck steers itself which is very unnerving and saying it has an exhaust brake is a joke. Oh, and the vibration that starts at 20 mph is very annoying. My Ram has 80k on Michelins and rides smoother than the Ford even after 3,400. worth of new Michelins and balance rings. Those are my 3 biggest complaints. Hopefully the 2023 is better.
That wide track front end and the commercial grade tires are what are causing that wandering (front end steer.) Those same tires are what make the ride feel so uncomfortable too, because of how hard they are. Get you a set of 20” rims and a more common tire it’ll fix the wandering some, and make for a softer ride. These are known issues on the F450’s. As for the vibration, it might be because of how tough it is to balance those wheels. Take it to any average tire shop, and they’ll tell you they won’t even want to touch it.
Kinda depends what temp the transmission is built to run at. 10R140 Torqshift like in this truck is built to run between 208-221 or anywhere between 195-230 but yeah those temps would ruin a transmission that’s built to run at 185 like Aisin
GM has to do something with the 6.6 Duramax. My 23 just finally got above 7.9mpg after 7k miles. And that's driving empty 95% of the time. Worst fuel mileage I have ever gotten with a truck
So I ordered a 2023 H/O diesel F350 Tremor.. is it really worth getting the F350 over the 250? Is it that much of a payload difference for the cost of the ride? That's something we haven't really heard on the new 2023. How is the ride? Same .. better? And what's your thought on the difference of MPGS?
Depends, what are you towing? Do you need a cdl to to tow it? I’m upgrading from a 250 to a 350 for the payload (higher than a 450.) You’re combination and payload weight are the most important thing in these situations.
@@GOFASTER69 they don’t though. Physically, they’re built differently. You get more springs with a 350. Bigger axles, lower gears are offered. More cross members too. If you have a dually, it just having the extra set of tires allows for more weight at the rear. I have a 40ft gooseneck that my F250 has a tough time stopping AND made squat. Just got an F350 dually, they’re not even in the same league.
@@GOFASTER69 I don’t know about the Tremors, I will admit that. Still, it goes back to what the sticker on the inside of your door says. That’s all up to the manufacturer. You WILL overload and F250 before you overload an F350. These are things you have to know about. Saying the F250 and F350 have the same payload would mean that the F250, is equal to or greater than that of the F450. And we both know, that’s not true. On paper, maybe. Physically, they are different trucks.
With less than 100 miles and NOT hand calculated those fuel mileage numbers are useless. I'll wait for the hand calculated video after it has 10k miles on it. Then I'll listen. What I'll really be waiting for is if you make it to 100k before the 10spd craps out.
Not very accurate test. Once you do your paper numbers your actual fuel economy will be much much lower closer to your 14.5 resetting it as you're already rolling with your previous fuel economy based on an actual average of driving under acceleration.
@@pddieselpower well it is one mile at a time. Honestly I think you would be better off bullet proofing the Cummins it will be cheaper in the long run I think.
Jeremy Vinson I’d suggest a bit better of an argument based on facts instead of a kid phrase saying 😂it’s not a 6.4 or 6.0 built by International which could logically be labeled garbage anymore. 6.7 Powerstroke is built by ford and has similar and in various ways better reliability than 6.7 Cummins.
Ford raised the tranny fluid temps starting in 17 to get better mpg. Mine wont get over 210 even towing 20k. Fluid still looks really good at the 50k change interval. Got me worried when i first got mine but we have a few trucks with 300k+ that never had any tranny issues.
Realistically, will your drivers ever use eco mode? Especially since they will virtually never drive without a trailer? I’m more interested to see how they do towing vs the rams. Thanks for the update!
The 2021 f550 i was driving I had it in eco mode and got an entire 6mpg average without pulling anything, it was a utility truck. But shit my 5500 right now averages maybe 6.5
My 3500 6.7 , 2022 used 22.6 on a 330 mile trip. 99% of it was highway between 65-70 mph. Came from a 2011 F-250 6.7. No doubt the Ford was marginally more fuel efficient. More noticeable when towing.
I consistently get 20-22 at 80mph. 2022 Ram 3500 cc lb Sw, not high out put. I’ve changed all the fluids over to high end synthetics & use a fuel catalyst in every tank. Low ash 10-30 engine oil for less regens.
Dads 2020 f350 was averaging 16-18 before the break in. Sitting at 21 mpg now
I recently averaged as high as 20.7 mpg and as low as 20.0, with a 20 mile per hour head wind, in my ‘22 SD, CC, LB, 4x4, w/1800 mi, bone stock, set to “normal” driving mode, climbing to 6000 ft and back, 1100 mi trip. Gonna try the eco mode now for sure. Haven’t towed my 20k lb toy hauler yet, but am thinking I’ll get 10-12 maybe?! Climbing 6 & 7% grades will be the test tho. Thanks for sharing. God bless.
you should be able to change that earl pressure to your turbo gauge - this is one thing i really think is a liability with these - a screen for all gauges. my 6.7 powerstroke has the physical gauges which i would miss.
as for your trans temp, mine regularly goes to 202 at 70-80 mph, but 208 is a little high for the speeds you’re going. but not by much. i would say it could also be part of the break in process, tolerances and all…
i regularly get 26mpg out of mine if i’m driving it economically. it’s also doing fantastic on wear according to black stone reports at 200k, have been using amsoil since 91k
i still watch the content on the rams because the videos are informative, and fun - but nice to see you might be becoming a fellow ford guy. 😂
What are your metal wear numbers and how often do you change your oil?
@@repairvehicle i can just share the pdfs with you if you’d like. sometimes way too soon, sometimes if i have to 8500-9000 miles. amsoil keeps it pretty consistent no matter what. about to send one of those extended drain tile samples in tomorrow.
I just got a new 23 f350 h.o.
I am getting 22.5 on trips at 75 mph running empty.
7000 lbs behind her and it drops to 15.2 mpg.
At first I was a little bummed that his 22 Cummins didn’t work out for him.
But Paul seems pretty excited about his new Ford HOs.
Even though I’m a Cummins guy. I’m looking forward to the Ford content on his channel.
I'd verify that with some math a the pump. The Eco mode might pad the numbers to please the Ecomentalists.
I tested mine by driving from Texas to Montana and back, normal there eco back and averaged out to 21 there in normal and 18 back in eco, convinced it doesn’t do anything other than shift sooner
Keep the videos coming brother. Really enjoy the tow videos. Looking at replacing my 2014 ram 3500 with a Ford F450 in the future. This new truck and your testing will answer the questions I have. Is it worth it or not?
ive always been a ram/gm guy, currently driving a 2022 ram 5500 limited thats a daily driver/welding rig and i quite like it. However things have changed towing wise and dont need the 5500 capabilities anymore. Looking to make a switch back to a 1 ton dually to gain back some MPG/ride quality. Too be honest ive never driven a ford but i am seriously considering a 24 lariat dually. Dont know what to do! i have all 3 brands submitting numbers on comparable trucks so i guess well see who has the best numbers.
I appreciate these videos Paul. I’m currently going back and forth on what truck I’d like to buy as my “final truck”. I’ve always liked Rams, but this new model SD (Limited? Platinum?) and the GMC Denali Ultimate have me wondering which it will be. I enjoy the insight your videos give with these trucks that you cannot get with other truck review videos I see on UA-cam.
skip on the GM products, you’ll be happy with either the Ford or the Ram. Ford definitely has more midrange and top end oomph being a V8. If you get a Ram avoid the 22s as you may have seen Paul has had issues with them.
Go with the Ford 2023 HO 6.7. You won't regret it !!!!
I can say after 30,000 miles on my 2021 Superduty, most those miles in Eco Mode, that in my experience the mileage is helped a little bit. Not a ton, but enough to save several hundred bucks a year.
But, where the eco mode really saves you. Only and maintenance costs is the significant reduction of DEF fluid used. In eco. Ode hardly any DEF is used. I’ve noticed in tow/haul (Even when not towing), Normal, and the Sand mode, the DEF gets sucked down at a much higher rate. I suspect that’s where the real economy is coming from.
I’ll wait to see a 600 mile trip in each mode and hand calculated numbers. I don’t put my faith in the Liometers on trucks especially on such a short run
Two things. The ford trans are thermostated at 190⁰ so you will never see asian trans temps. I have never seen mine over 220 which is perfectly normal for a ford. Also. 6.7 powerstrokes in general run alot hotter oil temps as well.. which is normal also. You never hear about anyone gernading their engine cause of the oil temps getting to 240⁰. In the powerstoke. Just keep in mind. Its not a cummins so dont look at it like it is. Do your home work and see what other people are running and if they have issues running these temps.
Kinda excited for your platinum to come in
I just towed my 6k camper about 300 miles through mountains. The trans would get to about 211 then go back down. Thermostat for auxiliary cooler I suppose. I have a 23 xlt f350 with the standard output.
No longer external transmission cooler
Old Cummins: 21-24 MPG
Your ass hurts
Man that interior and front end is terrible. And you know I love the fords
That would be a money saver on fuel in the 2020 ram 3500 I was averaging on a good day 12 mpg I'd run eco if I had the option
Don't believe anybody saying they get anywhere near 20mpg with any diesel truck. I saw 19.8 once on my deleted 6.7 Cummins with a tailwind going downhill empty. That's not real world.
My 2018 ram 3500 cummins 4 door 4x4, highway mpg 22 at 70mph hand calculated. By the way with all the emission equipment installed. Zero aftermarket parts but I use best fluids money can buy in my cummins
I'll tell you, I drive a Bluebird Vision with a full ford powertrain and it runs 200-210 trans temp. The entire fleet runs like that.
Ford States their transmissions are design to work in higher temperatures with max being 270F.
mpg #'s are 11 for the Ram and 11.9 for the Ford
The truck also has 3.55 gears
My F350 6.7L Powerstroke trans temp runs 205-215 all the time. It’s normal. *It took me some time to adjust to the higher temps being normal…
Same here. Coming from the 68rfe anything above 200 had me worried.
You’re like a kid in a candy store! Only have a humble 21f150 v8. Best mpg 25.8 over 500 interstate miles, part of a 985 mile in a day run at 24.9.
I might have gotten lucky but I just picked up my 23 F250 HO/6.7 and my mpg hasn’t dipped below 20 with mixed Highway/city
Just curious if you manually calculating it or using the computer.
MPG is impressive, be perfect for highway/interstate Cruze.
Thanks for the update! It was regening on your first test, which is why the exhaust filer is at 0. 14 -15 is normal highway regen numbers (what i saw on my 2020 350 6.7). Doesn't need to be in eco mode to get over 22 mpg :) eco might give you .3-.5 mpg improvement
All eco does is make the throttle more linear
Eco mode = more problems down the road in my mind I hope I’m wrong. Love all the videos and the fact that you are giving all the manufacturers a try. 07 5.9 myself probably be the last new truck I’ll ever own
My 2022 f450 is averaging 1 mpg better than my 2015 Ram 3500 dually with a 3,400lb northern lite camper cruising @72mph. Too bad it's been at the dealer with multiple issues for 2 weeks. The truck steers itself which is very unnerving and saying it has an exhaust brake is a joke. Oh, and the vibration that starts at 20 mph is very annoying. My Ram has 80k on Michelins and rides smoother than the Ford even after 3,400. worth of new Michelins and balance rings. Those are my 3 biggest complaints. Hopefully the 2023 is better.
That wide track front end and the commercial grade tires are what are causing that wandering (front end steer.) Those same tires are what make the ride feel so uncomfortable too, because of how hard they are. Get you a set of 20” rims and a more common tire it’ll fix the wandering some, and make for a softer ride. These are known issues on the F450’s. As for the vibration, it might be because of how tough it is to balance those wheels. Take it to any average tire shop, and they’ll tell you they won’t even want to touch it.
If it really averages 22 mpg, I may think to go with Ford.
Doesn't heat kill transmissions?
Kinda depends what temp the transmission is built to run at. 10R140 Torqshift like in this truck is built to run between 208-221 or anywhere between 195-230 but yeah those temps would ruin a transmission that’s built to run at 185 like Aisin
@@lw6735 gotcha 👌
GM has to do something with the 6.6 Duramax. My 23 just finally got above 7.9mpg after 7k miles. And that's driving empty 95% of the time. Worst fuel mileage I have ever gotten with a truck
Idk. My 2017 duramax did very well
Yeah my 18 was good, this truck is the worst I ever had. I'm going back to a Ford
Idk, my 23 gets 20 mpg highway not towing and 10-11 mpg towing. 17k miles
I have a 2024 GMC 3500 Denali ultimate dually and same thing it's so slow and the breaking is horrible, fuel economy is horrible going back to Ford!
Ford transmission temps normal is 195-230 whereas Ram Aisin normal is below 200…
Please do a towing test.
Will do. Coming soon
I got 21.4 in my 2021 duramax highway run of about 150 miles averaging about 70mph. Pretty good for a ford but I just can’t stand them.
how hard is it to change a water pump. or belt tensioner. or anything
much, much harder than on a 6.7 Cummins
Lol. 5 hr job compared to 20 min.
Fords normal operating trans temps are higher than ram.
So I ordered a 2023 H/O diesel F350 Tremor.. is it really worth getting the F350 over the 250? Is it that much of a payload difference for the cost of the ride? That's something we haven't really heard on the new 2023. How is the ride? Same .. better? And what's your thought on the difference of MPGS?
Depends, what are you towing? Do you need a cdl to to tow it? I’m upgrading from a 250 to a 350 for the payload (higher than a 450.) You’re combination and payload weight are the most important thing in these situations.
The F250 and F350 Tremors have the same suspension so the payload/tow limit is the same.
@@GOFASTER69 they don’t though. Physically, they’re built differently. You get more springs with a 350. Bigger axles, lower gears are offered. More cross members too. If you have a dually, it just having the extra set of tires allows for more weight at the rear.
I have a 40ft gooseneck that my F250 has a tough time stopping AND made squat. Just got an F350 dually, they’re not even in the same league.
@@GOFASTER69 I don’t know about the Tremors, I will admit that. Still, it goes back to what the sticker on the inside of your door says. That’s all up to the manufacturer.
You WILL overload and F250 before you overload an F350. These are things you have to know about. Saying the F250 and F350 have the same payload would mean that the F250, is equal to or greater than that of the F450. And we both know, that’s not true.
On paper, maybe. Physically, they are different trucks.
@@GOFASTER69 great info so the quality of the ride is the same? And I guess there is no point getting the 350 if they are the same right
The gauge cluster aesthetics look mediocre.
is that for scan gauge set up ?or is the 2023 gauges
2023 factory setup
that's better fuel mileage than my 5.3 gets
Since wheels did anyone rely on the truck to report accurate mpg?
How much does it consume in normal mode?
Same loop was 14.5
@@pddieselpower that's a huge difference
Who the hell drives 65 on the highway. Drive it at 80 & see what it gets
With less than 100 miles and NOT hand calculated those fuel mileage numbers are useless. I'll wait for the hand calculated video after it has 10k miles on it. Then I'll listen. What I'll really be waiting for is if you make it to 100k before the 10spd craps out.
Well the Fords transmissions have a much better track record than the dodge!
Yes sir. Time will only tell
@@sprint2648 Aisin brother.
The worst digital display (the ford) I've ever seen.
My 2020 2500 6.7 cummins gets about 23mpg everyday driving. 33000 mile on it now.
Not very accurate test. Once you do your paper numbers your actual fuel economy will be much much lower closer to your 14.5 resetting it as you're already rolling with your previous fuel economy based on an actual average of driving under acceleration.
BOGUS
Get it past 250k towing then come back
I’ll take 100k at a time. Lol
@@pddieselpower well it is one mile at a time. Honestly I think you would be better off bullet proofing the Cummins it will be cheaper in the long run I think.
Six in a row ready to tow eight in a v and you sit to pee 😂. Not a Ford diesel engine guy the truck itself is good but the engine is garbage.
😂
Jeremy Vinson I’d suggest a bit better of an argument based on facts instead of a kid phrase saying 😂it’s not a 6.4 or 6.0 built by International which could logically be labeled garbage anymore. 6.7 Powerstroke is built by ford and has similar and in various ways better reliability than 6.7 Cummins.
Someone like ford 😂
Lmao, who buys a high output truck and worries about gas milage