I know this was a joke, but lots of people have been able to afford things they otherwise wouldn't because of Behringer, either by buying one of their products or by their products' sheer existence forcing prices down on sh-t people actually want to own. Brand fandom is weird to me, so I don't know that it would make someone a fan per se, but plenty of people are or ought to be thankful that they exist.
@@paulie-g "or by their products' sheer existence forcing prices down on sh-t people actually want to own." give me one example of a product not by behringer that you know behringer was instrumental for in bringing the price down
@@brmbkl You think no manufacturer has set a price for a product lower because Behringer exists? Moving the low end down drops prices in every industry.
@touched youre praising that deranged synthpunk dude? you know that guy is a schoolteacher? he's out of his fucking mind what point has he ever made that was coherent or true?
@Grant Long Agreed. It ain't like we don't have really bad companies in the world to actually be moaning about. BP destroys a whole eco-system but don't get me started on Behringer and their good synths at a great best, bastards!
@Grant Cobalt mines? pffft, that's a pleb concern... the widespread rape and sexual assaults of children in the Transkei sub-region it's like 1560x times more tragic, you pedo-ableist ciscum!! How can you even sleep??!! what a monster, ignoring all that rape...
Holy shit this is the First video that came up when I typed "behringer" into youtube. Hahahaha. It's right under the behringer channel logo. I thought this was one of their videos. Congrats dude!!!!!!!!!!! Get after it!!!!
Excellent video. Just one thing: the Corksniffer is not the line. It's way beyond the line already, it's a large corporation harassing an individual. I had never heard of that story before but it's just shocking.
Yes, that was my response when I saw that video too. It's bullying, plain and simple, which the majority of decent people find deeply distasteful and wholly unacceptable. When a corporation picks on one person, it's not 1:1. It's the financial might, the legal resources, the tribal following and the marketing machine of that company that's targetting one, single individual. Corporations *should* be above that, it never looks good on your corporate CV. If someone's doing something truly illegal to defame your products, that's fine. Someone having an opinion about your products which doesn't fit with what you'd want said is either to be ignored, or learned from for a better product. Mature companies do this, as do mature people. To pick on someone several "years" younger than you, when you're already top of the class at what you do is petty and brings you (and in this case your company) into disrepute. And that's not easily forgotten. The notable fact that this video was removed immediately once an internet-wide backlash reflects that public distaste.
@@2112jonr Yeah honestly if they just tweeted something silly poking fun at him or his work, that'd be a fair line in my opinion (but still a dick move). But trademarking his name, designing a fake product, and shooting a video for it is nuts. The video itself was funny, until you realize this is just some guy that doesn't like their products.
Fantastic video and a cute doggo. The last piece of Behringer gear I had was one of their first generation midi controllers in the early 2000s. My buddy worked in a local music supply store and offered to lend one to our studio on demo to decide if we liked it. After installing the drivers, the moment we turned it on there was a hissing noise through the monitors which only went away when we turned it off. Somehow, Behringer managed to make a midi controller that introduced noise.
As a fan of some of Behringer's gear (I fall into that "poor and need accessible synths" category), you made a lot of valid points and I can't even hate on this. Also I love your dog. You get a like
With the prices of synths, you're not really poor when you have money for hardware. Poor producers use freeware, opensource and cracked software. Hardware synths is an expensive hobby. Take a few volcas, TD-3, TD-6 and other cheap synths, a mixer and maybe one or two 50€ guitar effects and you are already hitting 1000 dollar, that could buy you a decent DAW and some plugins.
Don't be a fan, You're just a consumer. These words "fan" "community", etc. that people throw around just because they bought a thing that thousands and even millions of others have bought are retarded.
@DIY Synth Or burn circuits trying the insane thing about the cork sniffer incident is that Uli leveraged his public image to gloss over everything else and defend accusations against him of anti-Semitism. He made it clear that covering his own ass meant the most.
@DIY Synth Or burn circuits trying Rest assured that there no rhetorical weight to the “if you’re poor then don’t use hardware” argument. I strongly encourage you to ignore these people. I would bet my day job that they’re worse musicians than someone who fights tooth and nail to ethically source the instruments they want to use for their own art.
I'd have difficulty saying exactly how this channel is so much better than 95% of the rest of the music production channels I follow, but it is. It is.
Cause he actually makes good music and seems passionate. Also knows his stuff. Unfortunately most music producer "influencers" are amateurs who are good at marketing themselves and produce good looking videos so it gives the illusion of knowledge and experience
Kinda reminds me of Bose. Ever since the early days of the 901, they made a habit of suing everyone who wrote a negative review of their often ridiculously bad speakers. Eventually, the hifi press just ignored them.
Don't forget about monster cable as well. They even tried to trademark the word "Monster" and started filing lawsuits on random small business like Halloween costume stores and mini golf courses that used monster in their name.
Another guy in the music industry from Germany, only sw, named uhe, was also harassing ppl in forums that said anything negative towards his plugins. Only saying that his emulation is not 100% there was enough to have him begin forum wars and trolling threads talking in general about va synths etc. At some point he was bad mouthing roland soft synths... i guess when the interns are coding his was at the forums bragging. Many Germans i talk with are terrible at communication, PR is not their strength you could say. At least he didn't sue anyone... but B is full on narcissist , quite detached from reality. At the time i was reading forums a lot and Uli had begun his promo on synth cloning and had written in one post of his that ppl were fooled that VA synths were true analog and they eventually found out the truth they 're not as good as real analogue. Amazing stuff!
Benn, I came across your channel a couple months back while looking into a new groove box and have been blown away by so many aspects of your channel - your character, your subject matter, the depth of information, the entertainment - I'm in awe. Thanks for doing what you do and truly making the world a better place. Love you man!
Місяць тому
why, Behringer copies circuits that anyone can copy ... everybody copied BOSS back in the day... \_(..)../
Benn, you've got an admirable level of self awareness, and any time someone demonstrates clear headed criticism, it's always going to cause controversy for those who struggle to hold two dissonant ideas in tension. This was excellent, and I think it's about as positive an attempt as can be done to hold the company accountable, while encouraging a win-win outcome for those in need.
As always, spot on assessment. Watching the videos, I'm constantly impressed by what youre doing here... then I hear that you ran a music non-profit for kids in Chicago, which happens to be my hometown... you are the definition of a "good dude." One of my dreams has been to open an nonprofit music production lab for kids and youve inspired me to re-focus on making that happen.
My dad was a relatively large music store owner in the 90's and to this day he says he will never own a piece of Behringer gear. He always brings up the story about how they were the talk of NAMM one year for completely ripping off a MACKIE 8bus and even going so far as having MACKIE knobs on their prototype demo unit.
I remember that, and I haven’t been a fan of Behringer ever since. They proved long ago that their MO was to reverse-engineer any decent gear they could get their hands on. Ghoulish and unimaginative at best. Come on Uli, you can do better.
I did discovery work, on behalf of the plaintiff, for some aspects of the many lawsuits that were instigated in Mackie v. Behringer. Mackie won many of the cases and B was forced to make changes. I’ve been in this industry for over 30 years. I know a LOT about the man and company with the Behringer name. The things that I’ve discovered during that series of lawsuits and over the course of 3 decades are appalling.
@@KentBuchla yeah it was out right blatant. To go further with the story, my dad’s store was REALLY big for the region (Ohio area) so he was on a first name basis with a lot of the big players of the day. He explains the story by saying Greg Mackie was on the show floor beside himself. The mackie camp was lost for words that year.
This was extremely well versed. Good on you for presenting this in such a calm and professional manner. While I have the TD-3 and RD-6 and enjoy them very much, even I can agree that the Swing was a real brash move and one that I don't support.
After posting on FB about the new Behringer Proton synth, I started to get negative replies on Behringer and one guy sent me the link to your video. This is an eye opener and, It does give me some food for thought. Thanks for posting it. Cheers
I'm a Behringer fan, and I agree they crossed the line picking on Arturia. That Kirn feud was childish and flat out stupid. Uli's ego will be his downfall.
@@danluscombe5006 I have an X32, an S16, an 8 channel rack DI, a Xenyx mini mixer and a Crave, also some assorted guitar pedals. Guess which one failed me so far? Yup. None. Crappy business practices aside, the gear is OK. It's aimed at people who don't care about the brand, and won't pay the premium tax for no added value besides a Korg or Roland sticker.
I used to have the behringer model D but sold it, saved money and bought me the Moog Grandma's, best thing I ever did. And I won't never buy their products after hearing this
Respect (for your honesty), and subscribed. Not for the juicy [behringer] drama, but for the wealth of knowledge I have since found in your videos regarding modular synths, building a home studio and the trials that come with that endeavor, and being a professional musician, composer, songwriter in todays music industry and economy (oh and bat hunting sounds). I will be a fan for as long as you make youtube videos, looking forward to whatever is comes next (and I haven't heard a lick of your music but that will soon change :) -Conor
as a german, I just want to say something regarding the Peter Kirn story: I am utterly disgusted by Behringers Behaviour towards this guy. I cannot eat as much food as I would like to throw up. This is an absolut embarassment in terms of professionalism. No company should ever behave this way, but I certainly wouldn't have ever in my dreams imagined, that a GERMAN company of all would indulge in this level of immaturity.
@@DrFearCo I mean yeah obviously, I'm not mad cause he's anti-semitic, I'm mad cause shit's stale. I also just enjoy insulting children on the internet.
I worked at Midas for nearly three years up until roughly 9 months ago, primarily working on HD96. Unfortunately Uli is anything but hands off and pretty much single handedly (along with his bulldog 2nd in command) turned one of the best places in the world to work, into an anxiety inducing hell scape that bought me to tears on a number of occasions. For anyone interested take a look on glass door to see some of the shit he gets up to.
@James glassdoor is a website where current and past employee of a whole lot of companies can post reviews on how it was/is to work at said companies ! looking at behringer there some reviews are pretty appealing..
As an audio professional, I find it significant that I found this the moment you published it and came back at 192k views. Time to freak out about synchronicity.
As an ex audio professional (recording studio sound engineer) I am ashamed to have once bought a Behringer 12 channel mixer. It has built-in FX and no busses for recording. Also, no parametric mid EQ. Of course, I have never even tried it (it's in the original box in my loft), so for all I know, it might be so great-sounding it doesn't even need the balanced i/o it doesn't have..
The history of Behringer lawsuits goes back to the 1990s with Mackie mixers. AFAIK they are probably the only instrument manufacturer with a section for lawsuits on their wiki page.
Your overall message is on point and well stated, but to be clear, Behringer *has* cloned things, was sued for it, and *lost.* The notoriety that the name Behringer enjoys to this day *began* with those events in the 1990s, particularly with Mackie and Roland.
Once I heard about how they handled Robin Whittle and the Devilfish mods, I got super sketched out by Behringer. I've wanted a Devlishmod'd 303 for ages, but not like this. Give the guy some respect and recognition, Uli.
I've debated Behringer fanboys on this who simply refuse to admit that Behringer did anything wrong. Because Whittle was seeking a partnership for his efforts rather than simply be paid off for a few thousand dollars they call him a greedy bastard that "deserved" what he got. Nobody deserves to have a big company with more lawyers than R&D guys rip off their industrial designs, especially for in-production gear. Truth be told I would still buy a "devilfish" Behringer if it comes out (I figure they will make good and make one for the sole purpose of pissing Whittle off at this point), but I'll be the first to criticize Behringer and, unlike the fanboys, I actually buy most of my gear from other companies that I actually respect.
I like Arturia, they make good hardware and software and continue to show that they appreciate their customers by offering free software upgrades to new versions and great discounts for sidegrades.
@@LostStylus Yeah same here - whatever key controller there was seven years ago, felt so battered and was partially non-functional in the store... I know their first beatstep got a lot of flak. I got the beatstep pro which seems good. Afraid to try the lower end key step, lol.
Hey flashbulb, just wanted to thank you for opening my ears to IDM. Your approach to this very experimental, obscure kind of electronic music helped me get into all sorts of non-mainstream-stuff, and i still think your early works hold up to this day. I wish you the best luck and success with whatever you do, your music and name will always have a special place in my heart
Level-headed, well spoken and absolutely on point. Thank you. I fully agree with all your talking points. After getting back into making music after 20+ years, i was really excited to see Behringer create affordable gear like the Crave or their mixers. But their business practices turned me off, to the point of wanting to sell them. Unless they make good on their promises and change their ways, i won't spent a single dime on another Behringer product ever again and i encourage everyone else to do the same.
I've already made that decision, independently. I'd be amazed if others haven't done the same too. I'd also go further and not recommend their products now to anyone considering buying. I just never bring them up in conversation as they evidently do not want the sort of good, word of mouth publicity, but court controversy and personal attacks on private citizens instead. I can't compete with that, so I direct my conversational energy towards other manufacturers.
Moog assembles their synths in the US from Chinese parts and lies to you by saying they're made in the US. It's not the same as copying but it's still questionable. All companies are shitty.
If you don't want to buy new Behringer products that is fine but what about used gear? I personally buy ONLY used gear because it saves a lot of money. By buying used Behringer gear you are getting an incredible value for your money and also not supporting them financially.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino That is quite literally made in US then though, have fun trying to source any substantial amount of electronics parts that isn't made in china nowadays :P
@@Yuzuki1337 in order for something to be considered "made in", more than 40% of the parts that form the product in question must be made in that country.
"I understand that my personality probably is the most entertaining when I'm being grumpy about something." Not at all! I won't talk about your view numbers and whatnot, I don't know jack about all that. I enjoy watching your videos because what you say resonates with me in a way that I would describe as both 'sober' and interesting to watch. You make it easy for me to learn and enrich my frame of reference. I have been pondering on how I could give something back, so I subscribed, and maybe this little comment will give you something as well. I wish your whole family happy holidays and lots of health (including the dog).
Hear hear! I have quite a bit of Behringer gear, and I love it to death. Especially the Neutron and the Model-D. The Neutron got me back into analog modular, to rebuild my analog modular I built when I was sixteen years old and add a ton of new modules to boot in year of frantic building. The D realized the dream of having a Minimoog, or at least something darn close to it and discover why that classic is as revered as it is, recreating all the sounds that have enchanted me in classic records with a few knob-twiddles. Seeing and hearing about that blatant Keystep move (by the way, I do own one, and I dread the thought of having bought it a year later, having had to wrestle the moral dilemma of saving 30 eu to buy another mic (a Behringer mic, by the way...). You really hit the spot here: it hurts, to see a company, that you love for doing something as great as recreating classic instruments, making well designed and built mixers and mics that pass the standards of the distinction between cheap crap and good semi-pro gear at a very low budget price, get so mean and unethical. And, as you also pointed out, waste so much money on stupid and mean lawsuits that they could have spent on R&D. Especially R&D: All that money could have financed another Neutron for instance, wich I still think is a work of absolute, very original genius.
Thanks for making this. I felt so bad for having made a video, a long time ago, about a mixer where I used a Behringer (which you can get on any brand, it's not unique). I was feeling shame for not deleting it, but at a small YT level, deleting 1 out of 20 videos, was losing too much, so I decided to just inform people to use other brands. This might be a good video to link to. And btw, kudos to raising so much for charity!
Damn, as a german I'm always shocked by the behavior of some german companies. Very sad that we still need to talk about stuff like that in 2020. Great video, thank you for having the courage to talk about this!
Well put. I've tried to express the point of view that you can like their products and not their practices before, but you articulated it way better than I could.
Appreciate the comment man! I know you have a tough personality, so it’s nice to see you sticking up against a shitty corporation like this. Also cool that you watch Benn!
It like one of the best midi keyboard controllers ever isn't it with cv I bet there are good older ones but as far as new and affordable it's probably the best
Wow, I recently got into music production and wanted to buy some Behringer stuff because it seemed cheap for what it offered. I guess the old addage is right, you get what you pay for and here you pay for a company that doesn't design their own products, they just steal them. Don't have any Behringer gear, won't be getting any in the future. Thanks for this video!
I kept seeing this video and ignoring it, didn’t want to click on it at all lol, Finally clicked it and I was very pleasantly surprised. Well made video, great quality, great editing, great speaking, a great topic covered in an interesting manner. Even a great mustache, can’t beat that. Subscribed.
I became a beringer "fan" over the years and recommended their stuff to a lot of friends. however not willing to support such a behaviour any longer. Thank you. Feels good to be a subscriber of your channel
@@brmbkl I don't mind copies - and honestly i don't believe in patents and copyright, both just necessary because of a questionable system - but i believe in keeping a promise. behringer can do, what they like to and you can support whom you like, too. who am i to judge? - just saying: next time i see an interesting behringer product, i will pretend there is nothing and will rather buy some music by Benn or a flashbulb album on bandcamp - lay down, listen to it and fall asleep feeling like i did "the right thing" - what ever that means
Check out Korg Yamaha and Roland about their behavior over the decades.. I mean if you don't want to support companies who shit on people I guess you won't be supporting anybody then
This video was recommended to me and after watching it I couldn't help but subscribe. Great insight, thank you for taking the time to talk about this kind of stuff very clearly and level headed. I applaud you for also taking the time to suggest productive countermeasures. Most videos calling out bad behavior don't always offer a solution, but you did so beautifully!
Wow. Weil I have a name for you, too: it's HERO. When the Swing came out, I immediately recognized it as a clone. So I did the research, and discovered the information you have in this video. If I had already subscribed, you would have saved me a lot of time. I guess I should have subscribed to your channel long ago!
This is such a bingo. I am a long-time customer, user, and specifier of Behringer products, and I do find it frustrating that the sorts of actions and attitudes described in this video (and elsewhere) that Behringer engages in only serves to undermine and confound the loyalty of customers like me. In my interest areas, the X32 and XR series mixers have made access to the world of digital live mixing affordable and possible. I have experienced years of praiseworthy service from my investments in Behringer's live sound products, but even with the attractive price tags, I have to think twice about supporting the company by purchasing more.
Going by Arturia's expertise in making vintage synth VST instruments, I'm really hoping they release a Deepmind VST and give it out for free. And tell Behringer... here's your competition :)
@@jameshasseriousedoubtsabou560 Yeah, would be a cool little temporary amusement but ideally Arturia is just gonna ignore B (apart from from the "seriously" post that they did after the Swing). Arturia doesn't need to react to this, not even with a lawsuit (which is probably what B is insinuating and hoping to win with "copying stuff is cool coz no copyright" verdict which will help them in the longer run). For anyone still thinking about the Swing and the 30$ price difference - don't forget the Arturia comes with Ableton Live Lite (and possibly their Analog Lab VST too? My Minilab did but I'm so sure about the Keystep) so it's a far better value.
@@SouryaSen Damn, didn't understand how making a copy of the keystep could have that effect until now. Thanks for that, also I'm pretty sure the keystep does not come with the analogue lab as I dont remember mine coming with it, but maybe I forgot. Thanks again for the cool comment.
Me too, I'm jumping through hoops to not have to buy their stuff, including possibly building my own rack DI boxes/preamps. :-) That said. If they are cloning a Jupiter-8. And it looks like they are. I'm gonna buy it. But then I probably sell the Deepmind-12 to compensate.
I agree that it is very sad to find out more about Behringer's underbelly in spite of the fact that I have enjoyed using Behringer gear for much of my musical life...
Couldn't agree more, Ben. I also have (and have had) Behringer gear and me and my friends have regularly discussed the giant gap in the market Behringer decided to fill...Like a fully analog 808 clone or Juno 60 people were BEGGING Roland to do for YEARS and nobody ponied up. That list goes on and on. And yeah there's a whole host of arguments to be had there (Roland doesn't want to re-tread, ACB is actually pretty good and so are the TR-8 and Roland Aira, 808 is same old same old why bother, etc.) but the fact is the market existed and Behringer filled that hole. That being said, you're right that a line has to be drawn somewhere. Their public interaction is frankly weird and edgelordy, and doing a clone of the Swing is just dumb. You're also right about the weird tribalism, as if this is somehow winner-takes-all and baby-with-the-bathwater thinking. I can like Behringer sometimes and hate them other times...That's fine by me.
Very well said. I had noticed UK's Sound On Sound magazine has stopped reviewing Behringer synths. Not sure of the reason. Perhaps Behringer feels they are no longer needed. One can only speculate.
I bought a Behringer 20 in 20 out DAC that I had high hopes for. I spent the time filling out my product registration because their whole thing was that you get a year warranty, but if you registered your product, you’d get two years warranty. So at just past the year mark I had an issue where the sound quality fizzled and reduced in volume. I called the warranty department. Upon checking my registration information, they said they would not take the product in for repair because I bought it at Guitar Center. I told them their website had directed me to Guitar Center to buy the thing, they didn’t’ care, they said they changed their working relationship with Guitar Center and that the warranty program for GC was being handled by Guitar Center themselves. I brought it in to Guitar Center, who had no idea what Behringer was talking about, but took the product in and tried to deal with it. No luck. So the manager decided to just do an exchange for a brand new one. I registered that one and then It also died, but in a shorter time. For my birthday I replaced it with a Focusrite 18i20 and haven’t ever looked at another Behringer product since. (BTW the MIDAS pre’s in it were crap, not the MIDAS that everyone loved before Behringer bought them.) I’m glad you are gently making people aware of this company and their unfriendly consumer practices.
I watch all of your videos and enjoy them immensely. Thank you. I wonder if any company is going to make a MIDI controller with 61 weighted keys with poly aftertouch, MPE compatible, with endless assignable knobs, ribbon control, and a frequently updated driver program. This video is from 2 years ago, and I guess people like me are still waiting for such a MIDI Keyboard controller, while companies (like the one mentioned in this video) keep making clones of old stuff instead of making new practical products.
All the butthurt in this comment section is hilarious. He gives SO MANY OUTS for people to go "ok I like this synth, but can at the same time not like a company's actions" and it seems like the fanboys just aren't taking it.
@@SjorsHoukes I see several, for example: "christdolphin69" "TheDddkkk" "fartpoobox ohyeah " "LolzDoom" "Hugh G Rection"... you'll notice the subtle charm and maturity of the nicks...
When you start talking about how everyone connects with a different creative outlet, is very good thinking. I really appreciate the effort that has gone in to this movie. I rarely find the time to find or rationalise this much information and it's fantastic.
My hardware budget for 2020 would have been spent on a Crave, RD, and TB devices. After the Cork Sniffer I went for a Novation SL Mk3 to drive software synths instead.
I also have the Neutron, the TD-3 and the Model D (which I made a lot of music with). I was a huge fan of the gear Behringer made because it was cheap and (in my opinion) is good to make music on. But I still think about the conflict. This video is a really good summary of everything and I really like how you put everything together so rationally and set it into perspective. I won’t hide my gear in photos or not use it in the future but I won’t ever be hyping or even defending the company again.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino loser absolutely does not have to pay in the US. It’s literally called, “the American rule”. It’s the sole reason we have so many lawsuits. You can sue anyone for any reason, even if you’re actually the guilty one, and you only have to pay your legal fees. It’s part of how behringer can get away with it. If you’re a small manufacturer, behringer can steal your idea, and then sue you for it. Even though they stole from you, they can drag out the legal fees forever, basically running you out of business if they wanted to. And then after they lose the court case, doesn’t matter. You have no money left and behringer is on its way.
I don't know if they got the money, but the case was dismissed as a SLAPP and DSI demanded Behringer cover $119,250 in legal fees. Hopefully paid by now.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino It's only state based in very specific cases: Alaska - has a loser-pays system. It requires, in almost all every category of civil cases, the loser of the lawsuit to pay a portion of the winner’s attorney’s fees. Alaska is the only state with a generally applicable two-way loser-pays system. Oregon and Oklahoma - have enacted statutes that apply loser-pays principles to many areas of litigation. In Oklahoma a defendant can choose an “offer-of judgment “provision. Oregon has converted a lot of one-way loser-pays statutes into two-way loser-pays statutes. Texas - has an offer of settlement system. The defendant must state that the case is subject to this system. If an offer is objected and the ultimate judgment is significantly less favorable the offering party can recover certain costs since the offer. In certain situations such provisions are not allowed. This is for example the case in class action lawsuits, worker’s compensation cases and Family Law cases. New York - has a loser-pays system when suing for unfair and deceptive business practice. It also has an offer-settlement system if the final outcome is worse than a settlement offer. California - has a loser-pays system when suing for unfair and deceptive business practice. It also has an offer-settlement system if the final outcome is worse than a settlement offer. Illinois - has a loser-pays system when suing for unfair and deceptive business practice. Florida - has an offer-settlement system if the final outcome is worse than a settlement offer.
Thanks for making this video! I wanted more detail about this controversy, and I'm pretty sure I came to the right place. Your presentation was informative and mature in approach. I think you restrained yourself admirably.
Benn I'm just now seeing this video and, as always, you are absolutely brilliant in your argument. I see that the fundraiser didn't go hugely well and I have yet to review the results of your opinion campaign, but I am going to forward immediately to my musician friends. Thank you for risking your neck on this. As you look back, any regret?
I was all ready to pick up a Neutron or possibly a MonoPoly when they finally made it to the States, but the Swing (and Behringer's response to it's criticism) was the final straw for me.
I like the way you think, how you express yourself and most importantly, how you're broadening every subject a little outside the standards. Found this channel by random but decided to stick around. Great musician-aimed content.
My first experience with Behringer was with a budget audio interface. It broke after some months. Afterwards i bought a brand new synth, the Deep mind 12. It blew my mind. It is a fantastic synth, easy to jam with and with countless possibilities when it comes to modulation. The sound rocked too. But honestly, i have decided never to get another product from them. It is not the fact that they clone synths. As a broke person, i need cheaper solutions. It is strictly their attitude present in some of their official social pages posts, and the fact that they so blatantly copy even products that are newer, like the ridiculous Arturia rip off. I will keep telling people how good of a synth the Deep mind is, and i will keep agreeing on newbies getting Behringer gear, in order to start their journey without killing their budget. But my own personal relationship with Uli's company, has ended. And yes, i know that i am irrelevant and that Uli lives inside a high castle. Peace to all.
@@darioargento21 She was negative to them stating that she helped out in the development, as she only participated in one focus group session with most (all?) of her suggestions ignored.
This man is versed in soooo many subjects relating to audio history, production and creativity. I can't imagine picking his brain other things. Keep up being amazing Benn!! I wish other musicians and artists were as approachable as you.
I really appreciate your perspective in this video. It's actually become a bit of a tricky feeling to own a Neutron even though I absolutely love it. I'm not at all a fan of them copying current designs, but I've been very impressed by how accurately they've been able to clone classic, out-of-production gear, and I love their original designs. I'm going to keep my Neutron, and I'm going to keep on loving it, but some of Behringer's less-noble actions really do bring up some tricky feelings about using their gear.
I love my Neutron...and my Deepmind too. And although that 2600 would be amazing too, I think I'll draw the line at the clones. Sucks to kinda care. Lol
Having owned a couple of their "gap filling" products, i am not surprised to learn that they have other worse-than questionable business practices. My experience with their gear is that it pales in reliability vs the originals.
I'm constantly amazed by how much I enjoy your videos and admire your efforts to provide a signpost pointing to "True North" regarding ethics, and other intelligent, useful, grown-up, and often spiritual topics. Keep up the great work, hero!
Thanks for doing this. Hits the nail on the head. I have some Behringer stuff that I really like but they seem to like throwing their weight around just for the sake of it, ( Uli’s ego?), and have definitely crossed the line a few times too many at this point. I don’t need to get any more of their stuff. And we don’t just like you when you’re cranky. We also like it when you’re funny, like when you pretend to be a cowboy.
I stumbled on this video by accident... but man, this was really interesting and informative and you argue your points so well. Thanks for creating this.
My only exposure to Behringer was their positive YT interactions with viewers and cheap, great hardware - thank you for sharing this upsetting information! No company should get away with this behavior.
Googling the Cork sniffer i found another pedal by a company called Blammo! That actually looks like the beringer one, even with the cork knobs, I don't know for sure if this pedal preceeded the behringer one... Could it be that even in their "joke" they ripped off another company? 😅
That's when I realised I was still not subscribed. Now I am. Great channel, great video, couldn't agree more on the Swing. This is a comment for youtube algorithms, too. More people should see it.
![Moog, Retailers, And Clones [Op-ed]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PyA7XnqdufI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Moog, Retailers, And Clones [Op-ed]](/img/tr.png)
this video was a real eye opener for me. i had no idea behringer had fans. thanks for the great upload!
I know this was a joke, but lots of people have been able to afford things they otherwise wouldn't because of Behringer, either by buying one of their products or by their products' sheer existence forcing prices down on sh-t people actually want to own. Brand fandom is weird to me, so I don't know that it would make someone a fan per se, but plenty of people are or ought to be thankful that they exist.
😂
Behringer has a hating groups all over the USA
@@paulie-g "or by their products' sheer existence forcing prices down on sh-t people actually want to own."
give me one example of a product not by behringer that you know behringer was instrumental for in bringing the price down
@@brmbkl You think no manufacturer has set a price for a product lower because Behringer exists? Moving the low end down drops prices in every industry.
Thank you for talking about this in a public space. Nobody seems to have the balls to do it nowadays.
@touched youre praising that deranged synthpunk dude? you know that guy is a schoolteacher? he's out of his fucking mind
what point has he ever made that was coherent or true?
@Grant Long exactly
@Grant Long Agreed. It ain't like we don't have really bad companies in the world to actually be moaning about. BP destroys a whole eco-system but don't get me started on Behringer and their good synths at a great best, bastards!
@Grant Cobalt mines? pffft, that's a pleb concern... the widespread rape and sexual assaults of children in the Transkei sub-region it's like 1560x times more tragic, you pedo-ableist ciscum!! How can you even sleep??!! what a monster, ignoring all that rape...
What are you talking about? Literally everyone hates Behringer lol, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a positive opinion of Behringer on the internet
Just applying for my government synth blog subsidy and the internet sent me here.
Its goes deeper. Behringer has been accused of using circuit designs from the DIY and open source community in their products for years.
this, i wish i could someday buy a real reissue RE-303 from dinsync
Is this illegal?
@@pong808 no, but it’s morally grey and unethical. And actually an argument of Intellectual property could be made, but I’m no lawyer.
Isn't that the point of open source? Anyone can use it?
@@K3150 Depends on the type of license
Nicely said.
shut up idiot
@therainman777 😭
@@christdolphin69 edgy little brat eh:)
Good lord what a load of bullshit. You guys are falling for it...
@@deejay666 no one cares dawg.
Holy shit this is the First video that came up when I typed "behringer" into youtube. Hahahaha. It's right under the behringer channel logo. I thought this was one of their videos. Congrats dude!!!!!!!!!!! Get after it!!!!
Excellent video. Just one thing: the Corksniffer is not the line. It's way beyond the line already, it's a large corporation harassing an individual. I had never heard of that story before but it's just shocking.
Yes, that was my response when I saw that video too. It's bullying, plain and simple, which the majority of decent people find deeply distasteful and wholly unacceptable. When a corporation picks on one person, it's not 1:1. It's the financial might, the legal resources, the tribal following and the marketing machine of that company that's targetting one, single individual. Corporations *should* be above that, it never looks good on your corporate CV. If someone's doing something truly illegal to defame your products, that's fine. Someone having an opinion about your products which doesn't fit with what you'd want said is either to be ignored, or learned from for a better product. Mature companies do this, as do mature people. To pick on someone several "years" younger than you, when you're already top of the class at what you do is petty and brings you (and in this case your company) into disrepute. And that's not easily forgotten. The notable fact that this video was removed immediately once an internet-wide backlash reflects that public distaste.
@@2112jonr you saved me a lot of typing, thanks!
@@2112jonr Yeah honestly if they just tweeted something silly poking fun at him or his work, that'd be a fair line in my opinion (but still a dick move). But trademarking his name, designing a fake product, and shooting a video for it is nuts. The video itself was funny, until you realize this is just some guy that doesn't like their products.
Yeah it's straight up bullying
What's crazy is that I "know" Peter Kirn. Never heard a peep from him about this.
I’m offended by your lack of appreciation for my “Exciting Bowls of Rocks!” series! Brace yourself to hear from my people.
I love the series. It really er, well, rocks :-)
hahahaha
😂🙌
Me too. I was bowled over by it.
link or it didn't happen
Fantastic video and a cute doggo. The last piece of Behringer gear I had was one of their first generation midi controllers in the early 2000s. My buddy worked in a local music supply store and offered to lend one to our studio on demo to decide if we liked it. After installing the drivers, the moment we turned it on there was a hissing noise through the monitors which only went away when we turned it off. Somehow, Behringer managed to make a midi controller that introduced noise.
They make cheap crap.😊
@Trentstone121 Not any more, though their reputation for the kind of things they used to make sadly remains.
This is BEST video on Behringer topic EVER ! Really wise words. Thanks for this one !
As a fan of some of Behringer's gear (I fall into that "poor and need accessible synths" category), you made a lot of valid points and I can't even hate on this. Also I love your dog. You get a like
With the prices of synths, you're not really poor when you have money for hardware. Poor producers use freeware, opensource and cracked software. Hardware synths is an expensive hobby. Take a few volcas, TD-3, TD-6 and other cheap synths, a mixer and maybe one or two 50€ guitar effects and you are already hitting 1000 dollar, that could buy you a decent DAW and some plugins.
Don't be a fan, You're just a consumer.
These words "fan" "community", etc. that people throw around just because they bought a thing that thousands and even millions of others have bought are retarded.
@@dreamyrhodes i’m sure he means all that in a relative sense
@DIY Synth Or burn circuits trying the insane thing about the cork sniffer incident is that Uli leveraged his public image to gloss over everything else and defend accusations against him of anti-Semitism. He made it clear that covering his own ass meant the most.
@DIY Synth Or burn circuits trying Rest assured that there no rhetorical weight to the “if you’re poor then don’t use hardware” argument. I strongly encourage you to ignore these people. I would bet my day job that they’re worse musicians than someone who fights tooth and nail to ethically source the instruments they want to use for their own art.
I'd have difficulty saying exactly how this channel is so much better than 95% of the rest of the music production channels I follow, but it is. It is.
I find this kind of comment under most of music production/engineering related channels. So who the fuck is right?
tantacrul,
Christian Fuchs,
Adam Neely..
are also good
@@rehab_herr
Adam Neely is great but he focuses more on music theory and even sociology than on music production most of the time.
Cause he actually makes good music and seems passionate. Also knows his stuff. Unfortunately most music producer "influencers" are amateurs who are good at marketing themselves and produce good looking videos so it gives the illusion of knowledge and experience
Thanks Benn, that was a thoughtful and nuanced response to the weirdness in which we find ourselves.
Kinda reminds me of Bose. Ever since the early days of the 901, they made a habit of suing everyone who wrote a negative review of their often ridiculously bad speakers. Eventually, the hifi press just ignored them.
Don't forget about monster cable as well. They even tried to trademark the word "Monster" and started filing lawsuits on random small business like Halloween costume stores and mini golf courses that used monster in their name.
@@davecampoli8671 seriously? That’s crazy, i never knew that... i used to use their cable:/
I have a Bose S1, it’s great for wedding gigs and small private events. Well worth the money... every company has some great gear 🤷♂️
Another guy in the music industry from Germany, only sw, named uhe, was also harassing ppl in forums that said anything negative towards his plugins. Only saying that his emulation is not 100% there was enough to have him begin forum wars and trolling threads talking in general about va synths etc. At some point he was bad mouthing roland soft synths... i guess when the interns are coding his was at the forums bragging. Many Germans i talk with are terrible at communication, PR is not their strength you could say. At least he didn't sue anyone... but B is full on narcissist , quite detached from reality.
At the time i was reading forums a lot and Uli had begun his promo on synth cloning and had written in one post of his that ppl were fooled that VA synths were true analog and they eventually found out the truth they 're not as good as real analogue. Amazing stuff!
Buy
Other
Sound
Equipment
:)
Benn, I came across your channel a couple months back while looking into a new groove box and have been blown away by so many aspects of your channel - your character, your subject matter, the depth of information, the entertainment - I'm in awe. Thanks for doing what you do and truly making the world a better place. Love you man!
why, Behringer copies circuits that anyone can copy ... everybody copied BOSS back in the day... \_(..)../
9:22 i'm a geologist :(
Dude the irony is that I go mining about once a month and stare at buckets of rocks the next day. 😂
@@BennJordan Found anything particularly nice whilst mining?
@@BennJordan Collecting rock samples? ;)
ua-cam.com/video/TQFWc4syEgM/v-deo.html
@@HammyHavoc I found some highly translucent opal in the high desert/Oregon, loads of quartz and amethyst. Other than that, the usual. 🙃
@@BennJordan Nice! I'm itching to give it a go now!
Benn, you've got an admirable level of self awareness, and any time someone demonstrates clear headed criticism, it's always going to cause controversy for those who struggle to hold two dissonant ideas in tension. This was excellent, and I think it's about as positive an attempt as can be done to hold the company accountable, while encouraging a win-win outcome for those in need.
As always, spot on assessment. Watching the videos, I'm constantly impressed by what youre doing here... then I hear that you ran a music non-profit for kids in Chicago, which happens to be my hometown... you are the definition of a "good dude." One of my dreams has been to open an nonprofit music production lab for kids and youve inspired me to re-focus on making that happen.
eat up that social media clout
😆@@rootvalue
My dad was a relatively large music store owner in the 90's and to this day he says he will never own a piece of Behringer gear. He always brings up the story about how they were the talk of NAMM one year for completely ripping off a MACKIE 8bus and even going so far as having MACKIE knobs on their prototype demo unit.
hahaha, I didn't know that!
I remember that, and I haven’t been a fan of Behringer ever since. They proved long ago that their MO was to reverse-engineer any decent gear they could get their hands on. Ghoulish and unimaginative at best.
Come on Uli, you can do better.
Yeah I had a mixer from them that was pretty much a direct copy of the 1604 vlz
I did discovery work, on behalf of the plaintiff, for some aspects of the many lawsuits that were instigated in Mackie v. Behringer. Mackie won many of the cases and B was forced to make changes. I’ve been in this industry for over 30 years. I know a LOT about the man and company with the Behringer name. The things that I’ve discovered during that series of lawsuits and over the course of 3 decades are appalling.
@@KentBuchla yeah it was out right blatant. To go further with the story, my dad’s store was REALLY big for the region (Ohio area) so he was on a first name basis with a lot of the big players of the day. He explains the story by saying Greg Mackie was on the show floor beside himself. The mackie camp was lost for words that year.
This was extremely well versed. Good on you for presenting this in such a calm and professional manner. While I have the TD-3 and RD-6 and enjoy them very much, even I can agree that the Swing was a real brash move and one that I don't support.
Absolutely, they have put out some cool stuff but Behringer should dispense with the theatrics and hostility
After posting on FB about the new Behringer Proton synth, I started to get negative replies on Behringer and one guy sent me the link to your video. This is an eye opener and, It does give me some food for thought. Thanks for posting it. Cheers
I'm a Behringer fan, and I agree they crossed the line picking on Arturia. That Kirn feud was childish and flat out stupid. Uli's ego will be his downfall.
With sales going through the roof I give him 25 years tops.
It's not "childish", it's harassment and very plain antisemitism. You should not buy anything from these racist bullies.
Behringer fan? At least you’re brave enough to admit it. They’re a company that is literally synonymous with “cheap and shitty”.
@@danluscombe5006 I have an X32, an S16, an 8 channel rack DI, a Xenyx mini mixer and a Crave, also some assorted guitar pedals. Guess which one failed me so far? Yup. None.
Crappy business practices aside, the gear is OK. It's aimed at people who don't care about the brand, and won't pay the premium tax for no added value besides a Korg or Roland sticker.
I used to have the behringer model D but sold it, saved money and bought me the Moog Grandma's, best thing I ever did. And I won't never buy their products after hearing this
good video!
love u valentin
OH SHIT ITS VIRTUAL RIOT ILY DUDE
drop your behemoth vip already
Ask his best friend Eliminate
God
my lord it is good to see you still out on the battlefield
Respect (for your honesty), and subscribed. Not for the juicy [behringer] drama, but for the wealth of knowledge I have since found in your videos regarding modular synths, building a home studio and the trials that come with that endeavor, and being a professional musician, composer, songwriter in todays music industry and economy (oh and bat hunting sounds). I will be a fan for as long as you make youtube videos, looking forward to whatever is comes next (and I haven't heard a lick of your music but that will soon change :)
-Conor
as a german, I just want to say something regarding the Peter Kirn story:
I am utterly disgusted by Behringers Behaviour towards this guy.
I cannot eat as much food as I would like to throw up.
This is an absolut embarassment in terms of professionalism.
No company should ever behave this way,
but I certainly wouldn't have ever in my dreams imagined,
that a GERMAN company of all would indulge in this level of immaturity.
@Hugh G. Rection do people still act like this? Do you have some hot takes on shia labeouf or some shadilay memes?
@Hugh G. Rection yeah... That's my point
@@theangryginger7582 don’t even bother... just look at the account name. It’s clearly a troll account.
@@DrFearCo I mean yeah obviously, I'm not mad cause he's anti-semitic, I'm mad cause shit's stale. I also just enjoy insulting children on the internet.
@Hugh G. Rection current year
I worked at Midas for nearly three years up until roughly 9 months ago, primarily working on HD96. Unfortunately Uli is anything but hands off and pretty much single handedly (along with his bulldog 2nd in command) turned one of the best places in the world to work, into an anxiety inducing hell scape that bought me to tears on a number of occasions. For anyone interested take a look on glass door to see some of the shit he gets up to.
@James glassdoor is a website where current and past employee of a whole lot of companies can post reviews on how it was/is to work at said companies ! looking at behringer there some reviews are pretty appealing..
@@killman007 that can be said about every company in the world
I know of a few people doing year placements there who they laid off half way through, lots of bitterness there haha
@@gokugoma3258 what a lazy comment.
2nd in Command being Andy?
As an audio professional, I find it significant that I found this the moment you published it and came back at 192k views. Time to freak out about synchronicity.
I'm always freaking out about Synchronicity man, killer album, never gets old
As an ex audio professional (recording studio sound engineer) I am ashamed to have once bought a Behringer 12 channel mixer. It has built-in FX and no busses for recording. Also, no parametric mid EQ.
Of course, I have never even tried it (it's in the original box in my loft), so for all I know, it might be so great-sounding it doesn't even need the balanced i/o it doesn't have..
The history of Behringer lawsuits goes back to the 1990s with Mackie mixers. AFAIK they are probably the only instrument manufacturer with a section for lawsuits on their wiki page.
Your overall message is on point and well stated, but to be clear, Behringer *has* cloned things, was sued for it, and *lost.* The notoriety that the name Behringer enjoys to this day *began* with those events in the 1990s, particularly with Mackie and Roland.
Don't forget their first product; the Aphex Aural Exciter Type F.
Behringer has been a shameless copycat from the start.
honestly speaking , so nice to ear someone true about himself and his real goals on making videos. respect and continue
Finally some sense in the discussion 😉
lol, exactly,,, nice approch
We need more of this for sure.
Benn, I really respect your sincerity and integrity in the making of thi video. Great example for others to follow.
Once I heard about how they handled Robin Whittle and the Devilfish mods, I got super sketched out by Behringer. I've wanted a Devlishmod'd 303 for ages, but not like this. Give the guy some respect and recognition, Uli.
I've debated Behringer fanboys on this who simply refuse to admit that Behringer did anything wrong. Because Whittle was seeking a partnership for his efforts rather than simply be paid off for a few thousand dollars they call him a greedy bastard that "deserved" what he got. Nobody deserves to have a big company with more lawyers than R&D guys rip off their industrial designs, especially for in-production gear. Truth be told I would still buy a "devilfish" Behringer if it comes out (I figure they will make good and make one for the sole purpose of pissing Whittle off at this point), but I'll be the first to criticize Behringer and, unlike the fanboys, I actually buy most of my gear from other companies that I actually respect.
Everyone who watches this should like and comment for the algorithm, because this needs to be seen by everyone!
Done!
Yes
Good Idea
Words.
I like Arturia, they make good hardware and software and continue to show that they appreciate their customers by offering free software upgrades to new versions and great discounts for sidegrades.
Yeah , so true..Roland and Akai same.
Their Keystep line is awesome. Theyve always made great software and hardware.
Free software upgrades?? Arturia has dreadful upgrade policies!
@@LostStylus Yeah same here - whatever key controller there was seven years ago, felt so battered and was partially non-functional in the store... I know their first beatstep got a lot of flak. I got the beatstep pro which seems good. Afraid to try the lower end key step, lol.
Hey flashbulb, just wanted to thank you for opening my ears to IDM. Your approach to this very experimental, obscure kind of electronic music helped me get into all sorts of non-mainstream-stuff, and i still think your early works hold up to this day. I wish you the best luck and success with whatever you do, your music and name will always have a special place in my heart
That $21.000 seems way to cheap for them them to make this go away AND have a year of promo. You’re too kind.
And the fact that this video is still up just shows that they’re not even going to spend $21k to help those less fortunate like they promised.
They'd also have to acknowledge critique as legitimate.
I wasn’t aware this was happening. I appreciate you making this video and helping to inform my future gear purchasing decisions!
Level-headed, well spoken and absolutely on point. Thank you. I fully agree with all your talking points. After getting back into making music after 20+ years, i was really excited to see Behringer create affordable gear like the Crave or their mixers. But their business practices turned me off, to the point of wanting to sell them. Unless they make good on their promises and change their ways, i won't spent a single dime on another Behringer product ever again and i encourage everyone else to do the same.
I've already made that decision, independently. I'd be amazed if others haven't done the same too. I'd also go further and not recommend their products now to anyone considering buying. I just never bring them up in conversation as they evidently do not want the sort of good, word of mouth publicity, but court controversy and personal attacks on private citizens instead. I can't compete with that, so I direct my conversational energy towards other manufacturers.
Moog assembles their synths in the US from Chinese parts and lies to you by saying they're made in the US. It's not the same as copying but it's still questionable. All companies are shitty.
If you don't want to buy new Behringer products that is fine but what about used gear? I personally buy ONLY used gear because it saves a lot of money. By buying used Behringer gear you are getting an incredible value for your money and also not supporting them financially.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino That is quite literally made in US then though, have fun trying to source any substantial amount of electronics parts that isn't made in china nowadays :P
@@Yuzuki1337 in order for something to be considered "made in", more than 40% of the parts that form the product in question must be made in that country.
"I understand that my personality probably is the most entertaining when I'm being grumpy about something."
Not at all!
I won't talk about your view numbers and whatnot, I don't know jack about all that.
I enjoy watching your videos because what you say resonates with me in a way that I would describe as both 'sober' and interesting to watch.
You make it easy for me to learn and enrich my frame of reference.
I have been pondering on how I could give something back, so I subscribed, and maybe this little comment will give you something as well.
I wish your whole family happy holidays and lots of health (including the dog).
Actually that last part counts for everyone who does or doesn't read this, happy holidays and lots of health.
Hear hear! I have quite a bit of Behringer gear, and I love it to death. Especially the Neutron and the Model-D. The Neutron got me back into analog modular, to rebuild my analog modular I built when I was sixteen years old and add a ton of new modules to boot in year of frantic building. The D realized the dream of having a Minimoog, or at least something darn close to it and discover why that classic is as revered as it is, recreating all the sounds that have enchanted me in classic records with a few knob-twiddles. Seeing and hearing about that blatant Keystep move (by the way, I do own one, and I dread the thought of having bought it a year later, having had to wrestle the moral dilemma of saving 30 eu to buy another mic (a Behringer mic, by the way...). You really hit the spot here: it hurts, to see a company, that you love for doing something as great as recreating classic instruments, making well designed and built mixers and mics that pass the standards of the distinction between cheap crap and good semi-pro gear at a very low budget price, get so mean and unethical. And, as you also pointed out, waste so much money on stupid and mean lawsuits that they could have spent on R&D. Especially R&D: All that money could have financed another Neutron for instance, wich I still think is a work of absolute, very original genius.
Thanks for making this. I felt so bad for having made a video, a long time ago, about a mixer where I used a Behringer (which you can get on any brand, it's not unique). I was feeling shame for not deleting it, but at a small YT level, deleting 1 out of 20 videos, was losing too much, so I decided to just inform people to use other brands. This might be a good video to link to. And btw, kudos to raising so much for charity!
Damn, as a german I'm always shocked by the behavior of some german companies. Very sad that we still need to talk about stuff like that in 2020.
Great video, thank you for having the courage to talk about this!
Dude I’ve been trying to piece this together and you’ve done it for me. Well done.
Well put. I've tried to express the point of view that you can like their products and not their practices before, but you articulated it way better than I could.
Really enjoyed this! Well done!
Appreciate the comment man! I know you have a tough personality, so it’s nice to see you sticking up against a shitty corporation like this. Also cool that you watch Benn!
Fxxx YOU GLENN
Hey glenn, glad to see we enjoy the same content lol. Anyway, stay well and &@#$ you!
GLENN!!!
Sup grandma
My jaw absolutely dropped when I saw the corksniffer image. What in the actual hell were they thinking?
For the Arturia Keystep, there is even a black edition. (I love the Keystep. :) )
Even though the black Keystep was a limited run, I hope Arturia release more as an FU to Scary Behry.
Yeah, I have it and like it. The Behringer clone definately crosses the line by a mile.
It like one of the best midi keyboard controllers ever isn't it with cv I bet there are good older ones but as far as new and affordable it's probably the best
This well articulated, sensible and honest set of arguments just earned you a subscriber. Thanks for producing this!
Man I'm glad I saw this. I was a few days out from buying a mixer and an RD-8. No way am I going to support a company that engages in SLAPP lawsuits.
To be fair, if you didn’t buy from companies that use slapp lawsuits, you wouldn’t buy anything?
Wow, I recently got into music production and wanted to buy some Behringer stuff because it seemed cheap for what it offered. I guess the old addage is right, you get what you pay for and here you pay for a company that doesn't design their own products, they just steal them. Don't have any Behringer gear, won't be getting any in the future. Thanks for this video!
I kept seeing this video and ignoring it, didn’t want to click on it at all lol, Finally clicked it and I was very pleasantly surprised. Well made video, great quality, great editing, great speaking, a great topic covered in an interesting manner. Even a great mustache, can’t beat that. Subscribed.
You are seriously underestimating the wonders of a bowl of rocks.
I became a beringer "fan" over the years and recommended their stuff to a lot of friends. however not willing to support such a behaviour any longer. Thank you. Feels good to be a subscriber of your channel
@@brmbkl I don't mind copies - and honestly i don't believe in patents and copyright, both just necessary because of a questionable system - but i believe in keeping a promise. behringer can do, what they like to and you can support whom you like, too.
who am i to judge? - just saying: next time i see an interesting behringer product, i will pretend there is nothing and will rather buy some music by Benn or a flashbulb album on bandcamp - lay down, listen to it and fall asleep feeling like i did "the right thing" - what ever that means
Check out Korg Yamaha and Roland about their behavior over the decades.. I mean if you don't want to support companies who shit on people I guess you won't be supporting anybody then
@@gokugoma3258 unfortunately no denying
Who cares about their behavior? As long as it's a decent product thats good enough for me.
@@shrimpshrubbery7664 As a nihilist I agree, nothing matters and everything is pointless anyway. So why care about other people, its all about you.
This video was recommended to me and after watching it I couldn't help but subscribe. Great insight, thank you for taking the time to talk about this kind of stuff very clearly and level headed. I applaud you for also taking the time to suggest productive countermeasures. Most videos calling out bad behavior don't always offer a solution, but you did so beautifully!
Wow. Weil I have a name for you, too: it's HERO.
When the Swing came out, I immediately recognized it as a clone. So I did the research, and discovered the information you have in this video. If I had already subscribed, you would have saved me a lot of time. I guess I should have subscribed to your channel long ago!
This is such a bingo. I am a long-time customer, user, and specifier of Behringer products, and I do find it frustrating that the sorts of actions and attitudes described in this video (and elsewhere) that Behringer engages in only serves to undermine and confound the loyalty of customers like me. In my interest areas, the X32 and XR series mixers have made access to the world of digital live mixing affordable and possible. I have experienced years of praiseworthy service from my investments in Behringer's live sound products, but even with the attractive price tags, I have to think twice about supporting the company by purchasing more.
If Arturia made a deepmind clone in response to this I'd totally buy it
Going by Arturia's expertise in making vintage synth VST instruments, I'm really hoping they release a Deepmind VST and give it out for free. And tell Behringer... here's your competition :)
Would be pretty funny and cool. But I doubt it would turn out any good for Arturia in the end.
@@jameshasseriousedoubtsabou560 Yeah, would be a cool little temporary amusement but ideally Arturia is just gonna ignore B (apart from from the "seriously" post that they did after the Swing). Arturia doesn't need to react to this, not even with a lawsuit (which is probably what B is insinuating and hoping to win with "copying stuff is cool coz no copyright" verdict which will help them in the longer run). For anyone still thinking about the Swing and the 30$ price difference - don't forget the Arturia comes with Ableton Live Lite (and possibly their Analog Lab VST too? My Minilab did but I'm so sure about the Keystep) so it's a far better value.
@@SouryaSen Damn, didn't understand how making a copy of the keystep could have that effect until now. Thanks for that, also I'm pretty sure the keystep does not come with the analogue lab as I dont remember mine coming with it, but maybe I forgot. Thanks again for the cool comment.
@@SouryaSen Supporting an innovator company that doesn't bully people is worth $30
This is the first video if yours I’ve ever come across and I 100% appreciated it. Thanks for looking out, man.
Amen brother. You hit the nail on the head. The "swing" is the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
Well, Behringer isn't getting my business anymore.
Behringer will probably go bust now 😂
Well, cept for the MonoPoly, but after that I'm done. I swear.
Me too, I'm jumping through hoops to not have to buy their stuff, including possibly building my own rack DI boxes/preamps. :-)
That said. If they are cloning a Jupiter-8. And it looks like they are. I'm gonna buy it. But then I probably sell the Deepmind-12 to compensate.
@@Stankonious and the OBXa and CS80... and 909... but REALLY after that
I mean... Buy 'em used and scratch off the name?
I agree that it is very sad to find out more about Behringer's underbelly in spite of the fact that I have enjoyed using Behringer gear for much of my musical life...
it's not really an underbelly. it's their overbelly.
Couldn't agree more, Ben. I also have (and have had) Behringer gear and me and my friends have regularly discussed the giant gap in the market Behringer decided to fill...Like a fully analog 808 clone or Juno 60 people were BEGGING Roland to do for YEARS and nobody ponied up. That list goes on and on. And yeah there's a whole host of arguments to be had there (Roland doesn't want to re-tread, ACB is actually pretty good and so are the TR-8 and Roland Aira, 808 is same old same old why bother, etc.) but the fact is the market existed and Behringer filled that hole.
That being said, you're right that a line has to be drawn somewhere. Their public interaction is frankly weird and edgelordy, and doing a clone of the Swing is just dumb.
You're also right about the weird tribalism, as if this is somehow winner-takes-all and baby-with-the-bathwater thinking. I can like Behringer sometimes and hate them other times...That's fine by me.
- I've made some empty promises in my life but, hands down, that was the most generous.
Uli's Tots
Very well said. I had noticed UK's Sound On Sound magazine has stopped reviewing Behringer synths. Not sure of the reason. Perhaps Behringer feels they are no longer needed. One can only speculate.
I bought a Behringer 20 in 20 out DAC that I had high hopes for. I spent the time filling out my product registration because their whole thing was that you get a year warranty, but if you registered your product, you’d get two years warranty. So at just past the year mark I had an issue where the sound quality fizzled and reduced in volume. I called the warranty department. Upon checking my registration information, they said they would not take the product in for repair because I bought it at Guitar Center. I told them their website had directed me to Guitar Center to buy the thing, they didn’t’ care, they said they changed their working relationship with Guitar Center and that the warranty program for GC was being handled by Guitar Center themselves. I brought it in to Guitar Center, who had no idea what Behringer was talking about, but took the product in and tried to deal with it. No luck. So the manager decided to just do an exchange for a brand new one. I registered that one and then It also died, but in a shorter time. For my birthday I replaced it with a Focusrite 18i20 and haven’t ever looked at another Behringer product since. (BTW the MIDAS pre’s in it were crap, not the MIDAS that everyone loved before Behringer bought them.) I’m glad you are gently making people aware of this company and their unfriendly consumer practices.
I clicked this accidentally but stayed for the whole thing. Informative.
I watch all of your videos and enjoy them immensely. Thank you. I wonder if any company is going to make a MIDI controller with 61 weighted keys with poly aftertouch, MPE compatible, with endless assignable knobs, ribbon control, and a frequently updated driver program. This video is from 2 years ago, and I guess people like me are still waiting for such a MIDI Keyboard controller, while companies (like the one mentioned in this video) keep making clones of old stuff instead of making new practical products.
All the butthurt in this comment section is hilarious. He gives SO MANY OUTS for people to go "ok I like this synth, but can at the same time not like a company's actions" and it seems like the fanboys just aren't taking it.
Scrolling down to read them, but I can’t find any. :) Everyone seems to agree and the video has hardly any dislikes.
@@SjorsHoukes check the dislikes now
@@gokugoma3258 Checking, and still true. Just over 2% dislikes.
@@SjorsHoukes it's hilarious before this video came out everybody was praising Behringer now everybody's hating on them
@@SjorsHoukes I see several, for example: "christdolphin69" "TheDddkkk" "fartpoobox ohyeah " "LolzDoom" "Hugh G Rection"... you'll notice the subtle charm and maturity of the nicks...
I'm glad you have the balls to stand up to this corporate bullying Benn! What needs to be said, needs to be said.
When you start talking about how everyone connects with a different creative outlet, is very good thinking. I really appreciate the effort that has gone in to this movie. I rarely find the time to find or rationalise this much information and it's fantastic.
My hardware budget for 2020 would have been spent on a Crave, RD, and TB devices. After the Cork Sniffer I went for a Novation SL Mk3 to drive software synths instead.
you are a moral and technical juggernaut in the music industry, thank you
I also have the Neutron, the TD-3 and the Model D (which I made a lot of music with). I was a huge fan of the gear Behringer made because it was cheap and (in my opinion) is good to make music on. But I still think about the conflict. This video is a really good summary of everything and I really like how you put everything together so rationally and set it into perspective. I won’t hide my gear in photos or not use it in the future but I won’t ever be hyping or even defending the company again.
cover the logos with stickers like I did 😄
On the day they tried to sue DSI, I sold the few Behringer units I owned. Does anybody know if they ever compensated DSI for their legal costs?
You have to if you lose, at least in the US.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino loser absolutely does not have to pay in the US. It’s literally called, “the American rule”. It’s the sole reason we have so many lawsuits.
You can sue anyone for any reason, even if you’re actually the guilty one, and you only have to pay your legal fees.
It’s part of how behringer can get away with it. If you’re a small manufacturer, behringer can steal your idea, and then sue you for it. Even though they stole from you, they can drag out the legal fees forever, basically running you out of business if they wanted to.
And then after they lose the court case, doesn’t matter. You have no money left and behringer is on its way.
@@ryanpwm Are you sure that's not state dependent?
I don't know if they got the money, but the case was dismissed as a SLAPP and DSI demanded Behringer cover $119,250 in legal fees. Hopefully paid by now.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino It's only state based in very specific cases:
Alaska - has a loser-pays system. It requires, in almost all every category of civil cases, the loser of the lawsuit to pay a portion of the winner’s attorney’s fees. Alaska is the only state with a generally applicable two-way loser-pays system.
Oregon and Oklahoma - have enacted statutes that apply loser-pays principles to many areas of litigation. In Oklahoma a defendant can choose an “offer-of judgment “provision. Oregon has converted a lot of one-way loser-pays statutes into two-way loser-pays statutes.
Texas - has an offer of settlement system. The defendant must state that the case is subject to this system. If an offer is objected and the ultimate judgment is significantly less favorable the offering party can recover certain costs since the offer. In certain situations such provisions are not allowed. This is for example the case in class action lawsuits, worker’s compensation cases and Family Law cases.
New York - has a loser-pays system when suing for unfair and deceptive business practice. It also has an offer-settlement system if the final outcome is worse than a settlement offer.
California - has a loser-pays system when suing for unfair and deceptive business practice. It also has an offer-settlement system if the final outcome is worse than a settlement offer.
Illinois - has a loser-pays system when suing for unfair and deceptive business practice.
Florida - has an offer-settlement system if the final outcome is worse than a settlement offer.
I worked in a music store in the 90s, and yes we had the Mackie 32 channel mixer side by side with the Behringer.
Thanks for making this video! I wanted more detail about this controversy, and I'm pretty sure I came to the right place. Your presentation was informative and mature in approach. I think you restrained yourself admirably.
Extremely important video. I'm very glad you did this and i hope, others will follow your example.
I stayed for the dog at the end.
Benn I'm just now seeing this video and, as always, you are absolutely brilliant in your argument. I see that the fundraiser didn't go hugely well and I have yet to review the results of your opinion campaign, but I am going to forward immediately to my musician friends. Thank you for risking your neck on this. As you look back, any regret?
You have my respect for calling out the douchebags of the music technology world. So yeah, you earned that much 😻
I was all ready to pick up a Neutron or possibly a MonoPoly when they finally made it to the States, but the Swing (and Behringer's response to it's criticism) was the final straw for me.
I like the way you think, how you express yourself and most importantly, how you're broadening every subject a little outside the standards. Found this channel by random but decided to stick around. Great musician-aimed content.
My first experience with Behringer was with a budget audio interface. It broke after some months. Afterwards i bought a brand new synth, the Deep mind 12. It blew my mind. It is a fantastic synth, easy to jam with and with countless possibilities when it comes to modulation. The sound rocked too.
But honestly, i have decided never to get another product from them. It is not the fact that they clone synths. As a broke person, i need cheaper solutions.
It is strictly their attitude present in some of their official social pages posts, and the fact that they so blatantly copy even products that are newer, like the ridiculous Arturia rip off.
I will keep telling people how good of a synth the Deep mind is, and i will keep agreeing on newbies getting Behringer gear, in order to start their journey without killing their budget.
But my own personal relationship with Uli's company, has ended.
And yes, i know that i am irrelevant and that Uli lives inside a high castle.
Peace to all.
Deepmind 12 was my first Behringer purchase. I love it, but don't have the room to keep it hooked up.
Was happily buying lots of Musictribe products recently 💵💵
Then Swing got me thinking about Arturia, so I bought a Microfreak 💸💸
I was on the fence about pigments, but that pushed me to buy it. :D
@@darioargento21 From MI's homepage "Plaits’ source code is available under the MIT licence." so stole... How?
@@darioargento21 She was negative to them stating that she helped out in the development, as she only participated in one focus group session with most (all?) of her suggestions ignored.
This man is versed in soooo many subjects relating to audio history, production and creativity. I can't imagine picking his brain other things. Keep up being amazing Benn!! I wish other musicians and artists were as approachable as you.
I really appreciate your perspective in this video. It's actually become a bit of a tricky feeling to own a Neutron even though I absolutely love it. I'm not at all a fan of them copying current designs, but I've been very impressed by how accurately they've been able to clone classic, out-of-production gear, and I love their original designs. I'm going to keep my Neutron, and I'm going to keep on loving it, but some of Behringer's less-noble actions really do bring up some tricky feelings about using their gear.
I love my Neutron...and my Deepmind too. And although that 2600 would be amazing too, I think I'll draw the line at the clones. Sucks to kinda care. Lol
Having owned a couple of their "gap filling" products, i am not surprised to learn that they have other worse-than questionable business practices. My experience with their gear is that it pales in reliability vs the originals.
I'm constantly amazed by how much I enjoy your videos and admire your efforts to provide a signpost pointing to "True North" regarding ethics, and other intelligent, useful, grown-up, and often spiritual topics. Keep up the great work, hero!
Thanks for doing this. Hits the nail on the head. I have some Behringer stuff that I really like but they seem to like throwing their weight around just for the sake of it, ( Uli’s ego?), and have definitely crossed the line a few times too many at this point. I don’t need to get any more of their stuff.
And we don’t just like you when you’re cranky. We also like it when you’re funny, like when you pretend to be a cowboy.
I had respect for Behringer until they started bullying people. Shame on you.
I own a Deepmind 12 and it is a great synth. It is also the last Beringer synth I got excited about.
You pulled up the DM12 as soon as I posted this 😂
I stumbled on this video by accident... but man, this was really interesting and informative and you argue your points so well. Thanks for creating this.
My only exposure to Behringer was their positive YT interactions with viewers and cheap, great hardware - thank you for sharing this upsetting information! No company should get away with this behavior.
their forum interactions didnt turn out quite as positive..
Thank you for bringing these things to my attention, I will think twice before buying a Behringer product going forward.
Googling the Cork sniffer i found another pedal by a company called Blammo! That actually looks like the beringer one, even with the cork knobs, I don't know for sure if this pedal preceeded the behringer one... Could it be that even in their "joke" they ripped off another company? 😅
Yeah they did... the Pedal existed before their stupid „joke“...
Good find, wow that’s embarrassing. I don’t currently own any Behringer and I never will.
Absolutely! It was discovered within a few hours after the Kirn "Cork Sniffin" incident. Even their lame joke was a clone...
Great Video!!
What did you like about it lol? Because I bet you didnt even watch it and just want free clout
That's when I realised I was still not subscribed. Now I am. Great channel, great video, couldn't agree more on the Swing. This is a comment for youtube algorithms, too. More people should see it.