Andrew Scheps Rear Buss Technique | Full Mix Parallel Compression
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2020
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One of Andrew Scheps’ most famous parallel compression techniques, rear buss compression is a simple way to get your mix full sounding and glued together. Time stamps are below.
Compressor Settings - 2:34
Audio Starts - 3:48
Multi-Mono Version - 4:05
In/Bypassed Comparison - 5:08
Stereo Version - 5:58
Song - “Back When We Were We” - Pete Mroz
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Awesome trick. Really helps the dynamics in a natural and satisfying way. Thank you !
Really great channel. Straight to the point , useful tips, no unnecessary chatter. Keep em coming. 🙌
Thanks!
So happy to see this being shown on Studio One
This is a game changer. Thank you so much
Thanks for sharing this technique and its application in Studio One using the splitter tool. I'm trying it out using two mono instances of H-Comp by Waves. I like how you can dial in the compression ratio to exactly what you want and set the release value to the bpm of your track to avoid pumping. I tried it using the Black 76 and the Dyna Mu by IK Multimedia but preferred the H-Comp.
Finally understand what rear bus means... Thanks a lot !
Nice-sounding mix!
Great technique, never heard of it before. Thank you very much! Great video also, very well explained. You've got my bell. I prefer the multi-mono a lot.
Thanks!
Amazing video man! No idea what others are on about with "keeping it natural" or "don't hear a difference" because it's night and day plus it's the most natural thing you can do... Simple compression but such an important effect for the end mix. Once again huge thanks for sharing man! (:
Thanks!
It's not night and day, nor is it making "no difference". It's a subtle enhancement suitable for certain styles.
really good! THANKS!
Very clear explanation. Previous ones I've seen didn't explain the origin of the name which made it seem more complicated than it actually is.
Exactly - a lot of audio techniques are shrouded in mystery and strange terminology, when they're really just simple concepts.
I actually didn't know about thei mono version of this which makes a world of a difference. Thanks for explaining and making it simple
I felt too, teh mono version makes all teh difference... Stereo, just adds more volume,,,
great stuff
Tried it and it works really great! I just use a stereo send #32 on Logic Pro and then added that return back into the stereo mix. Just a little bit it really pushes the track to your face!! It's cool! Thank you!
Glad it works for you!
Hi everybody
I used this technique with a live a band; and it sounded amazing.
Thanks
Thank you for this video. I just did the Rear Buss Compression 2.1 with the SSL Comp and I Also Added The SSL EQ and Opened The HF a bit and Mid Bands, slightly different on both sides with the EQ and Its Even Better...
Nice tip. you can do full mix parallel compression with all different types of compressors for different results, and the parallel EQ sounds like a nice touch.
@@GreenLightSound Yes your video just took my song to the next level. I was at the end of the mix when I ran across your tutorial. Talk about perfect timing.. Thank you again...
changed my life, actually
I must try this
EXELENTE AMIGO MUCHAS GRACIAS
Gran TECNICA
I think the vocals sound much better using the stereo. I am using 1 airpod but it did sound a lot better in this scenario
The mix got a little less open.... The vocals may have softly popped but at the expense of the feel...
Golly, that sounds nice...
why aren't the pultec settings symetric to compensate ? what about gain staging in the three gears ?
what about reverbs and FX busses?
I don't send rev/delay to the rear buss, they end up sounding a bit more washy. Sometimes increasing the fx busses just slightly when using the rear bus technique is sufficiënt. You just want the rear bus doing a subtle thing and does not interfere alot with the reverb/delays anyway.
I think in cubase you would have to set up 2 mono busses, then pan the sends left and right.
I hear this technique on StarFlyer 59 albums, in the last 10 years.
So in FL I wonder should I use the mono version of the plugin or the stereo i kinda follow what you're saying about a splitter but I'd have to set that up in patcher any suggestions?
If you just use the stereo version of the plugin you should be fine. The differences are not that drastic.
Great video! You have probably mentioned it, but is it the buses, or the separate tracks (that go to the buses) that is being send to the rearbus?
The sends are from the buses.
Great video and a bit of history, Joe!
Just wondering do you send your rear buss mix separately into the Master out or it's blended with the other tracks as well?
It's sent directly to the mix buss/master.
@@GreenLightSound I have a question, I’m blind and I understand everything completely and ProTools the output of my rear bus. Do I leave it alone or do I need to go from the output of that to the input of my mix bus? Really curious, I believe I just leave it alone. Thank you so much.
If you’re Compressor has a mix knob, is there any benefit to routing this to a bus track? Or would it be the same thing as using the mix knob?
You hear it particularly in the midrange of the bass. Actually adds some frequencies in this specific mix I don't care for, which is probably why he usually leaves the bass out, perhaps. I like to think of parallel compression as "a way to make things louder while preserving more of the dynamic range." In fact, you could also look at the parallel fader almost as a dynamic range fader. Max is at minus-infinity, min is at 0dB.
Didn't know about the splitter in studio one. That's actually kinda cool.
yo the way you described it makes so much sense
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I was dumb forgot my password. I appreciate any help you can offer me
@Hayes Noe instablaster ;)
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Awesome, would you also send the reverb Busses as well on the parallel compressor buss ?
Yes
Sooo what if I used something like Fabfilter Pro C which has a mix knob for parallel compression and a hpf, and just put it on the regular mix bus instead of setting up a rear bus? Similar results or nah?
Not really, since parallel compression with a mix knob is not quite the same as this style, where the full dry signal is retained and the wet parallel signal has its own fader. Plus not all instruments are sent to the rear buss. Not to say it couldn't still be a useful effect - it's just different than this.
What’s up guys, I understand the method completely fine, I just want to know one thing, the output of the rear mix bus do I leave it alone in ProTools I would assume so because if I have my mix Bus with all the processing, there’s no need of me sending that to that correct I just leave it in stereo and I should be OK? Can someone just give me a clear understanding of the output thank you.
Does Andrew send his fx returns to the rear too?
when you do the sends on the bus do you send it at the default -6dbs or all the way to 0?
Hey thanks man! Have you tried Brauer's ABCD method? If so, how does it compare to Scheps REAR BUSS style?
I've heard of it but not tried it. I'll have to check it out.
I wonder if EQ could help
Thanks but what is about the submixchannel ?
Hi Joe, great content as always, and thanks for doing this. A question. Rather than set up the rear bus as a bus could i set it up as a Send instead and send all my music (minus drums to it)? I have a Studio One template incorporating the Michael Brauer 4 Send compressors approach (compressing based on the frequency of the instruments) whereby the bass and kick are sent to a low end compressor, the mid frequency instruments are sent to a mids compressor, the treble high frequency stuff has a dedicated compressor and finally a compressor for ambient sounds.They then go to the submix bus I'm thinking that after i've sent to those compressors I would route those compressed signals to the rear bus send to blend back in. I need to explore this routing more as it is becoming complex.
The rear buss is basically just a send, so your routing should work just fine. You could also send to the rear bus pre Brauer compression for a different result.
@@GreenLightSound cheers Joe. The difference between Send and Busses is confusing. Here's what I understand, tell me if I'm missing something. You can route audio to a bus, which you can't do to a send but you can also send audio to a bus. Which begs the question, why have sends if a bus can do everything a send does and then some? I can't see the differentiation and reasons why you would only use sends or buses in certain circumstances. They just seen the same but with some extras if you use a bus.
OK, I think I see what you mean. I think the confusion comes from the analog console world, where busses and sends are indeed different. On a hardware console main busses are all reached through routing within the console. The only processing you could apply without sends would be the EQ/dynamics that are included on the console's channel strips. On the other hand, aux sends on the console do as they say, and send a copy of the signal out of the console for processing, usually to other outboard compressors/EQ/FX, etc. Things get confusing in the DAW world because those limitations no longer apply, so you can use the same type of channel for both types of routing. For example, in Studio One I set up a buss track for both send processing of multiple audio channels and for buss routing. In the case of the Rear Buss, I got there through sends, not the outputs of the channels. You can route audio to multiple outputs in Pro Tools without sends, but you can't in Studio One yet. It is a confusing subject, especially as terminology gets blurred between the analog and digital worlds!
@@GreenLightSound yes, this is as I expected. There is no negative with using a send versus using a bus in your rear bus example. They 2 seem interchangeable (aside from being able to route audio to a bus)
@@stupidusername38 it's easiest to understand busses vs sends from the historical context of a hardware mixer that has separate circuit boards for each channel. Thinking of the channel strips as being vertical, the busses are horizontal wires that collect the signals and transport them (hence "buss") to the submix strips, the master strip, and to any effect send or monitor-mix outputs. The sends are the controls that route those signals to a buss. In a physical mixer there are limited numbers of busses (hence Schepps putting the rear buss to use) but in software you can generally add as many as you need; creating a send effectively creates a buss.
Hi everyone :)
Does anyone know how to get this signal flow in Ableton live? The splitting and individual processing I mean.
i was asking myself the same question. What i did so far : creating a group with all the tracks except drums. Then create an other audio track, which gets the audio from the group "all except drums". Then I put DDMF Metaplugin on this track, which allows to send left and right channels to different plugins. I put the compressors for left and right.
If you don't have metaplugin, you can create two audio track, each one receiving audio from the "all except drums" group. Then you put the ableton's stock Utility plugin, which allows you to select only left or right channel. You then assign one channel to the left, one to the right, and put your compressors on each channel.
I didn't find anything easier, and this doesn't work on ableton 9 and before as you cannot create sub-groups of tracks
Why not parallel with a fast attack super smashed version? Why the slow attack?
excellent video! wasn't aware of this technique. can hear the difference even listening quietly on laptop speakers. How would you route this in Pro Tools? Would you make a stereo aux track for the rear bus, but put the 1176 in multi-mono on there, and then send all your groups (minus drums) to that rear bus aux? Is the rear bus output going into the master fader/2-bus?
Right, the output goes to your 2 buss. The rest of the routing you described is exactly right for Pro Tools.
@@GreenLightSound thank you! going to try this on my next mix!
Thanks for clarifying, I am a blind engineer with limited vision, and would love to know if there’s any chance you could tell me in detail, each knob of the UAD1176 in detail so I could try it would really appreciate it✌️
Hopefully you guys get back soon. Thanks again.
Using It with two mono compressors, should increase the mono compatibility, Or does it? Im Producing techno, so its quite important that it sound good in mono.
It shouldn't affect mono compatibility at all. You can always flip your mix to mono when you try this technique to double check.
great explanation. one question: how do you think reverbs/effects fit into this rear bus approach? i’ve done the rear bussing before with good results, but i’m now trying out a template i made where all reverb/delay/ambience auxes go to a single fx submix, as opposed to going back to their respective subs (all vox, all drums etc). the rationale being to have control over the ‘wetness’ of different moments of the mix. so would i want THE ROOM to be parallel compressed as well? whadya think, in general? - philosophically, bc i know it depends on the song. thx
I think they should go to the rear buss as well, simply because I view the effects as an essential element of the overall sound of each group. If you compress the dry sound but not the FX, you run the risk of having the volume bump from the rear buss changing the balance of wet/dry that you built in the mix. It could still work, but you would just have to be careful of the balance.
For FX control, I often create an FX VCA and ride that for different sections of the song, or automate each FX channel in different song sections. That way I still have the FX for each group (all drums, all vox, etc.) on there if the client needs group stems.
@@GreenLightSound How does this work with stems? Wouldn't it make it so that effectively each stem gets its own separate rear buss rather than a combined rear buss? Or do you make the rear buss its own stem?
@@unclemick-synthsMuch like mix buss processing, it's tough to add the rear buss while printing stems. I would usually just solo up the rear buss and have it printed as part of each group send, but it wouldn't be the same as having the full signal triggering it. It's a lot like mix buss compression - it's just not the same without all of the tracks playing. For most mixes it's nearly impossible to get the stems to be the exact same as the combined stereo mix.
@@GreenLightSound Thanks for the full reply. I was curious because stems seem one of those things that although theoretically a good idea, in practice doesn't even work as well as the old-fashioned vocal-up vocal-down etc mixes.
What you’re doing is fine, just send your effects bus to the rear bus.
How are you routing to your sonarworks channel for cans?
In Studio One, I set up a new cue mix output in the I/O and set it to a stereo pair of line outs on my apollo x6. This feeds my headphone amp (Little Labs monotor). With this setup, I never have to worry about the headphone correction altering the main output.
Hello guys, so I understand the theory behind everything that you’re doing, but the thing is that I am a Blind engineer, and I have limited vision and can’t follow along, any chance you could tell me exactly the settings that you did on the 1176 I do have the Apollo, so that shouldn’t be an issue. If you could tell me in detail each knob, andhow do I make a multi mono insert I really appreciate it, I know that I could just go into a insert, and it says mono or multi so a little confused there any help would be appreciate it would love to really try this really soon
the results are great and definitely not nothing--but I wonder if the "rear buss" side of the A/B test sounds particularly good because taking it in and out drastically alters the balance of the instruments and vocals against the rhythm section. when you made the example patch for the video, did you mix into the rear buss to get your balance right from the start, or add it at the end of the process?
also quad is only dead because everyone keeps saying quad is dead!
I usually add it at the end of the process, and just mix it in subtly to thicken things up. It really should not alter the balance all that much.
I have a question, I'm using studio one my set up is I send my multi tracks to stereo mix busses then the busses go to my main mix. How do I send a track to multiple busses to accomplish this trick in your tutorial. For example my guitars are routed to my guitar bus how would I route them to my guitar bus and to the rear bus, thank you in advance. Also your videos are a great help.
I run the rear buss off of sends from the instrument/vocal busses. Some DAWs allow multiple outputs, so you could run it that way too if your system allows it.
@@GreenLightSound thank you
Is there any way this could be done in Ableton?
I've searched for it and haven't got any good working response/way...Does anyone here know how to?
Here's an article explaining the basic I/O setup for creating busses in Ableton. Just send the needed tracks to that channel and put the 1176 on it. audioservices.studio/blog/buses-vs-groups-in-ableton
if you don't have a compressor that offers L-R mode, the multi-mono setup can be achieved by making an Effect Rack with two chains, each one containing a Utility and then compressor after it. Build your first chain, set up macros for the compressor controls, and then duplicate the chain. Set the Utilities so that they only listen to the left and right channel respectively, and then hard-pan the chains. Ableton sucks at routing, but there's almost always a way around it with racks!
@@timnordberg7204 Man you are the GOAT!!!
Thank you! And yes Ableton's routing can be quite intricate compared to other daws...
i only have the waves 1176, it just have the 4 to 1 ratio, any experiences with this setting?
It should get you close to this sound. I used a standard 1176 for this before I got the UA version.
@Chad Gillihan The Waves has 4, 8, 12, 20, and all. Only the UA Anniversary Edition has the 2:1 ratio.
is it 2-5db GR combined (so about 2db GR on each side , then left+right will give us the 4db GR) ... or 2-5db GR on EACH side?
2 to 5 dB of GR on each side. The two sides should be fairly close in their compression if you have a well balanced mix.
@@GreenLightSound thanks!
What are you sending to the rear bus individual tracks or buses? And where did you send the rear bus? To master or to a mix bus?
I'm sending from my subgroup busses (all guitars, all vox, etc.) to the rear bus. From there it is routed to my mix bus.
Stereo or mono compressor? I have Studio one.
Multi mono is the true setup, but stereo will achieve nearly the same effect.
Am I wrong in saying that he doesn't send the drums to this, to try to keep it from pumping?
That's right. Sometimes no bass either, but it depends on the song.
Good day Sir. Did you use two mono 76 on the splitter? Or the stereo ones?
@GreenLightSound And thanks for sharing timeless info
Mono
@@GreenLightSound thanks, appreciate you
Great video! But, was it just me? I heard a pretty big difference between the dual-mono setup and the stereo setup. Maybe I need to listen again....
I'm thinking how to set this up in Logic Pro? Did you use Logic?
@@gregfitzgerald6436 Sorry, no; I use bitwig.
There’s a dual mono option for most plugins - an extra ‘menu bar’ is added to plugin - in this case the compressor- there will be an ‘L’ and ‘R’ button which will allow you to compress individually for left and right
Do I need to send the drum group to the Rear Buss?
No, or if you choose to do it send it at a lower level than everything else.
What is the reason for not sending the drums?
Probably that they'll trigger the conpressor to react to the transients too much.
Do you send your FX Returns to the Rear Bus?
Yes, since the fx end up getting routed to the sub groups for drums, bass, guitar, vocals, etc., and the rear buss sends come from there.
I like the multi mono better -Sounds a lot better from over here! I wonder why that is -Wouldn't thought the stereo way would've sounded better, but no!
Multi-mono vs. stereo compressors have kinda opposite effects on the stereo field, with stereo compressors collapsing the stereo field closer to mono.
The big issue is, if your mix is unbalanced, with multi-mono sometimes you'll hear it swaying from side to side.
Is this technique possible with a 2 track beat🤔
Yes!
Green Light Sound dope, I know in the video it said to not use rear bus compression on the kicks. so I didn’t know if the kicks already in the 2 track beat would affect it
@@glocktyson351 It might, but you could also filter out the low end before the compression if it sounds better that way.
great video! sometimes you sound like Saul Goodman 😀
Better call me :)
@@GreenLightSound 😂
Are you using two of the 76AE mono or stereo?
I usually just use a stereo instance.
@@GreenLightSound That takes more Dsp.... would it be OK to use 2 mono 76AE for both compressors
I'm sure it would be fine.
I use studio one all well. The problem studio one has with this method is the sends to not follow the pan pots so you have to go through each track one by one and adjust not only the track pan but the send pan as well (it's so tiny, right under the send gain slider). Are you doing that for this video because if not sends do not follow the pans and are driven right on the middle on your buses
The sends for this technique come from the group stereo busses (all drums, guitars, etc.) so they are already stereo and follow the individual channel panning. But you're right, if you send from individual channels it doesn't follow track planning, plus it's a tiny slider. It's one of the features from Pro Tools that I miss in Studio One.
@@GreenLightSound thanks. Yeah I'm with you on that, it's disappointing that studio one doesn't have a follow main pan. Second question you might know the answer to, if I use superior drummer and route of it, are the channels created stereo busses by default? The reason I ask is I would like to use the UAD for my NY compression , not the superior drummer 1176.
@@matthewmessner1105 I don't think so, but I would have to try it myself to be sure. I usually bounce to audio, then process.
@@GreenLightSound gotcha. I've never bounced my drum tracks before in studio one, if you bounce a kit from superior drummer or something similar will I bounce each individual mic piece of the kit?
@@matthewmessner1105 It will.
isn't the bass supposed to be mono?
Usually the source track is mono, but may have stereo effects applied to it like chorus or reverb. I usually mono out the extreme low end on the stereo buss.
Can you do a tutorial on how to filter out a guys Flemmi Graveley horrible damage voice? Maybe just a cough drop?
The mix is just all drums. 2021
wow wow wow just wow. ITS FUCKING GLUE IT JUST GLUES IT TOGETJER. really sounds so great. Now to learn how to do this with my novice ass hahaha thank you for sharing
You actually have the compressor set on fast attack though you said slow
Fully left on an 1176 is the slowest setting. It's opposite most other compressors, slow to fast as you turn the knob to the right.
wow studio one is weird
How so?
@@GreenLightSound just what you need to do to get duel mono processing.
Got it. It is nice that Pro Tools has it built right into the plugin window.
@@GreenLightSound yeah logic manages it in a much better way too.
@@gavmurray7398 Love it
Wtf you have the attack at fastest speed and you talk about having it slowest
Fully counterclockwise on an 1176 attack knob is indeed its slowest setting. It works the opposite of most compressors.
@@GreenLightSound ok thank you
The fact that it sounds like you need to clear your throat renders this video unwatchable. Sorry