It's good to see how the driver manager interacts with the driver, he's got a good attitude and treats his staff with the sort of care and respect that you would want from someone in that position.👏👍🤝
sorry to be so off topic but does any of you know of a way to log back into an instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me!
The most telling of the heroics here is the fact that no one was injured because everybody involved did the best they could to avoid calamity . Well done, sirs !
Had a similar incident at the Ferry with a 158 and no emergency services, trying to make a station stop in the early 90's. Was only doing 40mph due to a speed restriction, but still stopped well past the station by over a mile. Didn't fan the brake either. Recognise the Traction Inspector, or whatever they are called now. Pretty sure he trained me for HST's.
@@user-ub2hn3tm6m unfortunately in leaf fall season they couldn't stop on a dime. I was still sliding at South Ferry with no noticeable drop in speed. We had no sanders or scrubbers on the 158's then. In comparison the HST's were fitted with scrubber blocks on the power cars which made them perform far better in those conditions. The braking instructions of the time didn't help either.
You know what else has poor adhesion? The lip sync on this video😂. But serious, I’m glad the emergency services weren’t so stupid as to park on the level crossing/tracks as I’ve heard of some of them doing (in a rail maintenance depot at that).
I'm curious why no horn was used, surely once the driver realised the situation he was in , why no train in distress. ? Everyone would have heard a warning horn and realised a train was coming through.
The other side of that coin is that it's possible, in a situation of great stress, to become fixated on one thing and not think of other issues. A similar thing happens in aviation. There was an Eastern Air Lines flight that crashed in the Florida Everglades because all three crewmembers became so fixated on a possible problem with the landing gear that they didn't notice the airliner slowly descending until it was too late.
From 5:05 responds to that. The driver seemed focused on the train not stopping, and considering he wasn't thinking about the level crossing or people outside of the train it isn't that surprising that he didn't use the train in distress warning. Bearing in mind that it's easier to think about what should have been done after the fact, this is one of the things that if you haven't been trained for, you probably won't know how you'd react to. As per @@ssbohio's comment, there are many air accidents where pilots have reacted in a poor manner to incidents which made them worse, and that's one of the weaknesses of humans.
@@ssbohio Apples and oranges mate. The Eastern airlines crash unfolded over a matter of 30 minutes. This particular incident was over a lot quicker so reaction time was a lot shorter.
@@rapman5363 I agree completely. However, the principle is the same: Fixation on one problem leads to a degradation in performance in other areas. The ability to divide attention diminishes as stress increases.
Very much so. The job is less complex in terms of system management, but the concentration required from train drivers is far higher. Pilots generally have a lot more time to plan their actions, except at the most critical phases of flight. It's very unlikely that a pilot will have to make an evasive move in the air with seconds to react, whereas train drivers need to be constantly aware that a signal could change at any minute.
3:15 Big mistake. You do NOT fan the brake controller on a WSP fitted train when you need to stop in an emergency. Just put it into the emergency stage and leave it there.
But he didn't know the rails were struggling with low adhesion? Also, drivers shouldn't be using the emergency brake in normal service unless they REALLY have to, and it is very unlikely he would have known the nature of the emergency.
@@oliverbrelsford5472 That's true, but I thought that there was a reason for him fanning the break controller. In any event he should've just placed the break controller into step 3 and left it there.
Yikes. Not as bad as this but Portuguese Millipedes have been known to cause poor adhesion on Victorian railways, particularly on the Ballarat line. I can recall hearing some lengthy wheelspin from the DE loco while starting from several stations.
Driver is probably thinking he’s gonna gonna pass it with out even put the break on it he knew it wasn’t going to stop and there was no way he was going to
Are drivers legally required to remain inside the cab even if the train is on a potential collision course? Sending out a general stop alert and moving everyone towards the rear of the train would seem more logical
If you encounter some type of unexpected emergency you should use the radio to contact the driver instead of relying exclusively on the signaling system.
RJ Just a point: You say "use the radio to contact the driver" ie the Signalman. The train had to go past the Red STOP to make a SPAD before it was an Emergency. In normal conditions the brake application on the yellow CAUTION would have allowed the train to stop. If the signaller was watching the train, they would not have reacted on the yellow. I do not believe the signals check speed past it. IF you are instead meaning Driver use the radio to contact the Signaller, then that would make more sense, as the driver knew the train was slipping and no one else, and because the signaller is removed from the situation they could have made some call to the fire brigade, or better, reminded the driver to hit the horn.
@@stumpypetros2685 The emergency started with the report of the fire at the station. The signaler didn't treat it as an emergency, missing out a chance to avoid the SPAD. He could have asked the prior signalbox to put the signal back at danger (2:20). This would have started emergency braking earlier. He could have also called the train on the radio promptly and told the driver about the put back, explaining the fire activity.
Considering the signalling system is designed to give drivers the time/distance they need to stop and no poor adhesion had been reported the use of the radio was not an appropriate action. This was a freak occurrence with no blame or fault, with lessons to be learnt and actions to prevent future incidents.
FYI en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesion_railway "For steel on steel, the coefficient of friction can be as high as 0.78, under laboratory conditions, but typically on railways it is between 0.35 and 0.5,[4] whilst under extreme conditions it can fall to as low as 0.05. Thus a 100-tonne locomotive could have a tractive effort of 350 kilonewtons, under the ideal conditions (assuming sufficient force can be produced by the engine), falling to a 50 kilonewtons under the worst conditions. " This is just off my memory and of course I cannot find the article in Google, but, LOCO wheels turn roughly 15% faster than the speed of the train. It scrubs steel which builds up behind the contact point providing 'starting blocks' /all the time. A bit like Rockets in space use the spent gas to push against with the fresh gas to provide forward force. The 0.05 was equivalent of a Car trying to brake on Ice. The AWS senses the wheelslip and immediately attempts to reduce power to the motors to recreate traction again. A person would not be even able to sence the slipping let alone react to it. I'm having AWS installed on my model 5" gauge LOCO. To me this is a good, invention, and I do not have a problem with it, but I understand that point of when does the human make a decision. To me theres too many bloody controls. So instead of Good / Having an Issue / Its screwed, and letting the driver decide what to do next, by the time they try to read all the dials, they've gone over the cliff as it were.
No guilty party here, of course all parties could have done things differently as they explain in the video, but nobody did anything wrong the spad was a result of circuimstances and primarily poor rail adhesion.
Hope driver sounded his horn at least Just saw that he didn’t damn .. good he wasn’t blamed but if there was a casualty at the crossing he 100% would get the blame and possibly jail
WSP can over react to slight adhesion. I have known trains to over run platforms when there is only damp rails. The WSP equipment will off load brake applications to a dangerous degree. I used to teach my trainees not mess about if their train was approaching a potential collision. on a 375 cross the cab kick the plastic cover off and open the air cock. Bypassing the electrical braking. By dumping the air at least you have the parking brake. I looked at many downloads where the WSP was not applying any brake at all.
Seriously? "Disaster"? Absolutely not. The derailment of ICE train 884 in Eschede was a disaster, 9/11 was a disaster. This was a minor rail traffic incident.
"Near disaster" (9:40). Change the circumstances and timing just slightly, and you could very well have a train colliding with a fire engine at 70 miles/hour, the fire crew/train driver/passengers getting hurt or killed, and then two sets of fires, the one the fire engine was called for and one resulting from the collision. Don't forget that Paddington was a result of passing a signal at danger.
A very similar "incident" happened last week, only it resulted in 2 wrecked trains and a driver with life changing injuries. It was lucky it wasn't more than that.
Nasty computer-driven train that was at the start. Disc brakes never were any good on trains, why on earth they never gave us sand boxes and a sand pedal instead of all this "Automatic Wheelslip Detection" rubbish I'll never know. A similar, though electrically - powered train, overshot Stonegate Station a few years back. They've taken most of the control away from the driver now. It's all done by computer so it must be good they bleat. Glad I'm now retired and don't use trains.
More people died with 19th century trains without this technology than in the 21 century with it. More people die on roads and road vehicles lack a system like ATP to enforce signals and speed limits
It's good to see how the driver manager interacts with the driver, he's got a good attitude and treats his staff with the sort of care and respect that you would want from someone in that position.👏👍🤝
I think you can work on the assumption that every one of these videos is narrated by Paul Tyreman, unless told otherwise
I like paul
@@operatormook1623 You'll be going nowhere
sorry to be so off topic but does any of you know of a way to log back into an instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot the password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me!
This one isn't. It's narrated by Paul Press, as stated in the closing credits.
@Andy B His full name is Paul Press Tyreman, you can look him up. I agree it's probably for union reasons.
Luckily there's a recorder on those or they'd have blamed it on the poor driver.
Yep. It's always is unless he can prove otherwise
Spa films made this many other films like it. Paul Tyreman is the presenter and voiceover of many of their films.
The most telling of the heroics here is the fact that no one was injured because everybody involved did the best they could to avoid calamity . Well done, sirs !
16:06 This is the shit nightmares are made of.
Had a similar incident at the Ferry with a 158 and no emergency services, trying to make a station stop in the early 90's. Was only doing 40mph due to a speed restriction, but still stopped well past the station by over a mile. Didn't fan the brake either. Recognise the Traction Inspector, or whatever they are called now. Pretty sure he trained me for HST's.
@@user-ub2hn3tm6m unfortunately in leaf fall season they couldn't stop on a dime. I was still sliding at South Ferry with no noticeable drop in speed. We had no sanders or scrubbers on the 158's then. In comparison the HST's were fitted with scrubber blocks on the power cars which made them perform far better in those conditions. The braking instructions of the time didn't help either.
Anyone else said "jesus" at around 4:25 when he said it RIP
You know what else has poor adhesion? The lip sync on this video😂. But serious, I’m glad the emergency services weren’t so stupid as to park on the level crossing/tracks as I’ve heard of some of them doing (in a rail maintenance depot at that).
Speaking of poor adhesion it looks like the Wiltshire crash may have been caused by similar issues
Salisbury tunnel? It was. They're increasing RHTT apparently
I love the old iMac
That’s a 20” Apple Cinema Display, it connects using Apple Display Connector, probably hooked up to a PowerMac G4 or G5.
Random
I'm curious why no horn was used, surely once the driver realised the situation he was in , why no train in distress. ? Everyone would have heard a warning horn and realised a train was coming through.
Spot on, should have made continous burst of the horn till clear of danger
The other side of that coin is that it's possible, in a situation of great stress, to become fixated on one thing and not think of other issues. A similar thing happens in aviation. There was an Eastern Air Lines flight that crashed in the Florida Everglades because all three crewmembers became so fixated on a possible problem with the landing gear that they didn't notice the airliner slowly descending until it was too late.
From 5:05 responds to that. The driver seemed focused on the train not stopping, and considering he wasn't thinking about the level crossing or people outside of the train it isn't that surprising that he didn't use the train in distress warning.
Bearing in mind that it's easier to think about what should have been done after the fact, this is one of the things that if you haven't been trained for, you probably won't know how you'd react to. As per @@ssbohio's comment, there are many air accidents where pilots have reacted in a poor manner to incidents which made them worse, and that's one of the weaknesses of humans.
@@ssbohio Apples and oranges mate. The Eastern airlines crash unfolded over a matter of 30 minutes.
This particular incident was over a lot quicker so reaction time was a lot shorter.
@@rapman5363 I agree completely. However, the principle is the same: Fixation on one problem leads to a degradation in performance in other areas. The ability to divide attention diminishes as stress increases.
Nooooo not the precious gritty boy 1:00
Another Paul tyremam train guide🤣🤣👍
The whole video is out of sync with the audio!!!
+Mark Emanuele So not just me then.
Noticed that too!
I’m glad I’m not the only one. I thought I was loosing my mind
Happy 13 Year Anniversary!
Who narrates these videos? Are there any more? Pretty interesting! Thanks for the upload.
I think it's Paul Press Tyreman.
@@PottersVideos2 The YOU'LL BE GOING NOWHERE man
Paul Tyreman
SPaD and you'll be going nowhere
De-interlace= Did not get turned on
I never realised how technical being a train driver was. In some ways it would appear to be much more focused than an airline pilots job
Very much so. The job is less complex in terms of system management, but the concentration required from train drivers is far higher. Pilots generally have a lot more time to plan their actions, except at the most critical phases of flight.
It's very unlikely that a pilot will have to make an evasive move in the air with seconds to react, whereas train drivers need to be constantly aware that a signal could change at any minute.
3:15 Big mistake. You do NOT fan the brake controller on a WSP fitted train when you need to stop in an emergency. Just put it into the emergency stage and leave it there.
I may be completely misunderstanding it, but maybe he didn't realise it was an emergency for those 17 seconds?
But he didn't know the rails were struggling with low adhesion? Also, drivers shouldn't be using the emergency brake in normal service unless they REALLY have to, and it is very unlikely he would have known the nature of the emergency.
@@oliverbrelsford5472 That's true, but I thought that there was a reason for him fanning the break controller. In any event he should've just placed the break controller into step 3 and left it there.
4:23 always expect a train 🚆 😂
Yikes. Not as bad as this but Portuguese Millipedes have been known to cause poor adhesion on Victorian railways, particularly on the Ballarat line. I can recall hearing some lengthy wheelspin from the DE loco while starting from several stations.
Driver is probably thinking he’s gonna gonna pass it with out even put the break on it he knew it wasn’t going to stop and there was no way he was going to
What's the tool used by the MOM at 14.08?
Are drivers legally required to remain inside the cab even if the train is on a potential collision course? Sending out a general stop alert and moving everyone towards the rear of the train would seem more logical
what is the concquence of a spad
there could be a huge accident its like if a car runs a red light
what happens to the driver I mean like how much dissaplin
+boothplaysmc if they do it purposely theyd get sacked dunno about accidentally
oh right ok thankyou
+boothplaysmc yw :))
1b47 spadded
If you encounter some type of unexpected emergency you should use the radio to contact the driver instead of relying exclusively on the signaling system.
2003. Probably no cab secure radio or GSM-R at that time on that line.
I'm not familiar with the radio system in use prior to CSR & GSM-R. Would it not have been possible for a signaller to call a train by radio then?
RJ Just a point: You say "use the radio to contact the driver" ie the Signalman. The train had to go past the Red STOP to make a SPAD before it was an Emergency. In normal conditions the brake application on the yellow CAUTION would have allowed the train to stop. If the signaller was watching the train, they would not have reacted on the yellow. I do not believe the signals check speed past it.
IF you are instead meaning Driver use the radio to contact the Signaller, then that would make more sense, as the driver knew the train was slipping and no one else, and because the signaller is removed from the situation they could have made some call to the fire brigade, or better, reminded the driver to hit the horn.
@@stumpypetros2685 The emergency started with the report of the fire at the station. The signaler didn't treat it as an emergency, missing out a chance to avoid the SPAD. He could have asked the prior signalbox to put the signal back at danger (2:20). This would have started emergency braking earlier. He could have also called the train on the radio promptly and told the driver about the put back, explaining the fire activity.
Considering the signalling system is designed to give drivers the time/distance they need to stop and no poor adhesion had been reported the use of the radio was not an appropriate action. This was a freak occurrence with no blame or fault, with lessons to be learnt and actions to prevent future incidents.
FYI
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesion_railway
"For steel on steel, the coefficient of friction can be as high as 0.78, under laboratory conditions, but typically on railways it is between 0.35 and 0.5,[4] whilst under extreme conditions it can fall to as low as 0.05. Thus a 100-tonne locomotive could have a tractive effort of 350 kilonewtons, under the ideal conditions (assuming sufficient force can be produced by the engine), falling to a 50 kilonewtons under the worst conditions. "
This is just off my memory and of course I cannot find the article in Google, but, LOCO wheels turn roughly 15% faster than the speed of the train. It scrubs steel which builds up behind the contact point providing 'starting blocks' /all the time. A bit like Rockets in space use the spent gas to push against with the fresh gas to provide forward force.
The 0.05 was equivalent of a Car trying to brake on Ice. The AWS senses the wheelslip and immediately attempts to reduce power to the motors to recreate traction again. A person would not be even able to sence the slipping let alone react to it. I'm having AWS installed on my model 5" gauge LOCO. To me this is a good, invention, and I do not have a problem with it, but I understand that point of when does the human make a decision. To me theres too many bloody controls. So instead of Good / Having an Issue / Its screwed, and letting the driver decide what to do next, by the time they try to read all the dials, they've gone over the cliff as it were.
SPAD=P45.
SPAD=You'll be going nowhere.
12:39 shoking
so who is the guilty party if any?
No guilty party here, of course all parties could have done things differently as they explain in the video, but nobody did anything wrong the spad was a result of circuimstances and primarily poor rail adhesion.
0:57 Gen 1 Renault Clio
parts of this video the lips are out of sync with whats being said
Hope driver sounded his horn at least
Just saw that he didn’t damn .. good he wasn’t blamed but if there was a casualty at the crossing he 100% would get the blame and possibly jail
9:39 "With the benefit of 2020 hindsight"
What the actual f***
As in 20-20 vision, he's saying "clear hindsight" basically
What do you mean? What's wrong with that statement?
WSP can over react to slight adhesion. I have known trains to over run platforms when there is only damp rails. The WSP equipment will off load brake applications to a dangerous degree. I used to teach my trainees not mess about if their train was approaching a potential collision. on a 375 cross the cab kick the plastic cover off and open the air cock. Bypassing the electrical braking. By dumping the air at least you have the parking brake. I looked at many downloads where the WSP was not applying any brake at all.
The video and sound go out of sync on this video
AV sync is miles out.
:/
He was shit,.... put train in full EM, EM on the radio, continuous horn,
Seriously? "Disaster"? Absolutely not. The derailment of ICE train 884 in Eschede was a disaster, 9/11 was a disaster. This was a minor rail traffic incident.
"Near disaster" (9:40). Change the circumstances and timing just slightly, and you could very well have a train colliding with a fire engine at 70 miles/hour, the fire crew/train driver/passengers getting hurt or killed, and then two sets of fires, the one the fire engine was called for and one resulting from the collision. Don't forget that Paddington was a result of passing a signal at danger.
9/11 was an inside job
A very similar "incident" happened last week, only it resulted in 2 wrecked trains and a driver with life changing injuries. It was lucky it wasn't more than that.
The fire crew could have been killed by the train. They clearly state "near disaster" you imbecile
Nasty computer-driven train that was at the start. Disc brakes never were any good on trains, why on earth they never gave us sand boxes and a sand pedal instead of all this "Automatic Wheelslip Detection" rubbish I'll never know. A similar, though electrically - powered train, overshot Stonegate Station a few years back. They've taken most of the control away from the driver now. It's all done by computer so it must be good they bleat. Glad I'm now retired and don't use trains.
+River Huntingdon WSP also initiates the train's sander system.
The train was not and is not computer-driven.
@@QwertyScream "microprocessor controlled"
More people died with 19th century trains without this technology than in the 21 century with it. More people die on roads and road vehicles lack a system like ATP to enforce signals and speed limits