DIY Determining Max Powder Charge
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- Опубліковано 24 кві 2011
- If you are reloading yourself, make sure you understand how to do it safely, and monitor the flow of brass around indentations in your bolt. Marks on the brass mean unsafe pressure.
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I like your vids. I have been loadeing for 35 years and I get a kick out of guys who bash you for not showing the marks better ,if he is loading the first thing he should do is read a manual they cover this in the start up phase . Keep up the good work .
I read the ABC’s of reloading before I started.
A Ruger #1 has only a firing pin hole in the breech face. The pressure sign is loose primer pockets, that they might happen at load book levels for the 6.5-284 [high bolt thrust, deep extractor groove, and large primer pocket will make weak brass], but it will take 20% more powder than book loads for the 223. And in 6mmBR or 30-30, the primer will pierce before the brass shows pressure sign.
would of been nice to have a better picture of what is over pressure signs , could not see the end well enough to see the happy face.
I also couldnt see the marks he was talking about
MArk is there" he must be talking about his friend or something like that
Very precise, informative and to the point…….well done
Excellent information in a clearly understood demonstration. Very helpful information.
Great video. Couple itemanto mention especially on this cartridge is seating depth and free bore as they would certainly.play a part as well. Happen to love the 6.5-284 Norma.
There is a really good follow up video to this by jujitsu 2000. That goes over indications of overpressure by looking at your primers and the backs of your cases.
I never thought of that, thanks I appreciate your video on this. I will try this
This works best with new brass. Another great indicator is primer pockets. If they are still tight after three shots, your are probably just fine.
Thanks Darren. Great video
Oooops @ 2:39 :-) I think I made a mistake once too hahaha. Absolutely loving all the information you blokes are providing. It is by far the best one stop source I have ever come across. Covering pretty much all aspects of so many things i'm curious about. The Ballistic programme is fantastic. thankyou for making it free. Cant wait to get back to the range and test it out
Great series. Thanks.
I really appreciate all your informative videos.. Do y'all have a publication with your favorite recipes for different calibers? I know there are many variables depending on location altitude humidity barometric pressure etc, but I think it would save a lot of time and money experimenting with so many different recipes..
Thanks. Very clearly explained.
Never use one source of powder charge, use two or more for safety, as there are mistakes which can blow up the breach. Note letting the ammo sit in the sun can greatly increase the pressure to the point of serious problems. I saw an M1A explode 3 feet from me and the gun bolt exploded, and really hurt his left arm. Do not assume anything, everything matters keep records, temperature, wind, compass treading, and do not load maximum unless you know that this is the best for your specific gun, I use a separate book for each gun, for total shots through the barrel, barrel wear, accuracy, and date each batch of reloads on the box with bullet lot and powder lot and brass manufacturer, as all these matter in pressure, at max loads. Remington brass verses Winchester has 1/2 to 1 MOA difference at 600'yards. Weigh all brass lots and keep the difference in weights of each piece within a known range. Do not mix manufacturer lots, military brass, or odd weight brass pieces as serious issues
What gets me is the "science" of high pressure "readings" and the half grain reduction. They can send men to Moon, U.S.A. (since we own it) but they can't come up with an accurate way of measuring cartridge pressure.
Caution tempered with experience. Stay conservative…
wow @ 2:39 it was such low pressure that it did not even dent the primer ;)
Ryan's Range Report you saw that too huh? Lol
Primer condition by itself is not a very good indicator of excessive pressure.
I use primer indicators like flatter primers or craters around the firing pin as not all rifles will show ejector indicators. As u raise pressure you’ll get flatter then craters till u blow the firing pin hole out. A slight crater is as I see it a hot decent load on the edge oh being max but it depends on FP channel size. This is the most used method
If you live long enough you see everything. This video is not wrong..... and that surprises me.
Please redo this video with better visual descriptions...
museack Very inspiring comment...
Thank you! Will you be willing to donate?
museack Come on now, you sweet little thing! How else would someone as ignorant as myself ever hope to be as wise and erudite as you so obviously are? Please, teach not only me but every who came to this video as you are an omniscient one on this and all things... So pumpkin, I think you answered your first question with ease, or in your mastery of all things were asking a rhetorical question? Please sweetheart, don't tease me!
museack Thank you, Pooky! You just made my minute! I'm guessing you voted for obama...TWICE! Ha Ha Ha!
museack Don't you know it, Babygirl! 😘
museack If you only knew! Maybe... I'm just waiting for you to open my mind... Just don't see your "brilliance".
I have observed that I get the round ejector "wipes" on brass when firing safe, but hot, loads in a brand new rifle. The same loads in the same rifle do not exhibit that indication after a few dozen rounds. This experience is in rotating bolt AR type rifles, and also in a 5.56 Tavor. I have assumed that this is due to the bolt and receiver extension "wearing in". After 30-40 rounds the "wipes" do not appear.
There is an analytical approach to the safe maximum load. One must also keep in mind that many powders are temperature sensitive. That is to say that pressure and velocity go up when the operating temperature ( usually close to ambient) rises. This also means that if you let a round heat soak in a hot chamber a marginal max load may go over max.
The analytical method relies on the fact that pressure and velocity correlate. Higher pressure upon firing with a given powder will generally yield higher velocity. Since most of us in the field cannot measure pressure we can, however, measure velocity with our chronograph. So, taking handbook data first calculate the velocity per grain of the bulk load at each of the loads in the manual(s). I like to use at least three published manuals to account for random variability. These velocity (FPS)/ total grains will usually sit within a few FPS of each other for the same manual as the loads and velocities increase. . Now as you move up close to and beyond the published maximum compute the incremental increase in velocity that the additional powder gives you. Fire at least 3 but 6 or more is better and compute the mean. Whenever your incremental fps/grain is more than the bulk fps/grain you are entering the danger zone. Now you need to watch the primer pockets and case head for signs. A South African Ballistician ( don't remember his name) developed this approach. Whenever you get approaching 1.5 times the bulk average velocity increase for the incremental powder charge you probably should stop EVEN if you do not see physical signs of deformation at the case head. One more condition; keep the increases at or below 0.5 grains in cases over 50 grains and at or near 10% for smaller cases. So a 222 Rem Mag should not be incremented more that about 0.2 grains as you move up.
For my Ruger M77 in 7 Rem Mag with a 24 inch barrel I got to 3280 fps with the 150 grain Nosler BTBT. This is more than the max in the manual. The load was 68 grains of IMR 4350 with a CCI 250 using Nosler Brass. RP brass will not go this hot without heavy bolt lift. There was no heavy bolt lift and no primer pocket or other deformation and I was only at about 1.3 times the bulk for my last 0.5 grain increase. But I stopped. Another 20-30 fps was not worth pushing it. I now have a hot but safe load that is way faster than the Hornady Superformance load.
Thanks for posting this method. Can you explain and give an example of what you mean by incremental versus bulk fps/grain increase?
@@tomlopez6198he means .2 grain increases not 1 grain increases or the like. Also newer powders don’t increase pressure when hot only well known older powders like old old blc2 or similar the w748 the older early ball powders increases pressure when hot but not newer types and not stick. Certainly not superformance powders
Thank you for your video
can you post pictures of what a "full moon sign" and "half moon sign" look like on a remmy 700 extractor?
Very helpful
Could the max load change over time as you re use the brass numerous times?
Or would you use the pressure signs as a indicator that its time to change brass?
U can reload them. It’s just a safety indicator not a brass wear or life indicator
Nothing like light flare on the cartridge base you are trying to see the pressure marks on that the instructor is specifically talking about
Wish you would have actually pointed at what you were describing versus just showing the face of the bullet and putting it away quickly...
Not "bullet"! Face of the "CASE HEAD"
I have a question, will you get the same mark on a piece of brass fored for a winchester model 70 push feed rifle?
At what seating depth do you do this test? .010 jam , .010 jump or more?
there was no mention of stiff bolt lift ,, would this show up later after sign on the primer face ? lots of variables for sure
This video looks more like a "cookie cutter" or "canned" type of video with no real good explanations, and visuals were on the poor side. He runs through it too quickly.
All well and done verbally but it would be nice to have a visual of the case head showing the pressure signs.
What happens if you load a pistol primer into a .223 shell?
You're brave standing next to the rifle and holding it and firing it at the same time. I would have stood behind the rifle incase the action and/or the barrel ruptured from excessive pressure.
if the locking lugs shear off the bolt the bolt becomes a massive projectile flying directly rearwards. If the barrel blows up its going to be directly in front of the chamber. If you're not going to fire the rifle remotely, he was in the best place to do it.
@@fulsame1they don’t typically shear off lugs they typically have a blow out caused by a ruptured case . Rifles are actually designed to do this. They rupture around the back of the case as the brass is what holds in the pressure sorta like a inner tube in a old style tire. If u watch videos of rifles actually blowing apart they don’t typically eject the bolt straight back. And to do it they have to do something ridiculous like completely fill with straight pistol powder. Most decent rifle powders even a compressed load will not cause damage. Unlike pistol powders. Rifles cartridges are typically 90-95% full of powder so u can’t blow them up using the proper powder
What about micing case heads for. Max expantion of .0005 max expand
This is a very fast way of finding a load. What he won't tell you is that a lot of guys find their node ABOVE listed book max. Let the rifle tell you what it likes. If you do this method while shooting groups and recording your velocity, Its very possible to hit at 1000 in under 12 rounds total. Or, in under 12 rounds you might switch powder, to find something your rifle likes. What's your jump? Who cares, load to magazine length! Wish I would have learned this years ago, would have saved 100's of pcs of brass, 1000's of dollars, and weeks of time.
I will sometimes be at less than max load with powder charges but my velocity will be close to or over published velocity for max load. Even without pressure signs, I stop short of max. What am I saying? Use more than just pressure signs
You fired a shot in your test chamber, showed the primer with firing pin indent, fired another shot and showed an unfired primer......?
If you new how to use a micrometer you would be way ahead on finding pressure signs. This method your using you get way to much pressure fast. The real gunsmith randy selby has great vdo on how to reload and pressure signs.
Use a Mic on the pressure ring...THAT is the only sure way to measure over pressure...
At 2:39 the primer wasn’t struck.
Use a large magnifying glass to show close up of cartridge and low light , reflection takes away detail on brass .
Lol, good eye. That's funny!
You can't bs a bs'er .... When you pulled that last round out it was still a live unfired round
funny, i noticed that right away...
I saw the same thing and said to myself wtf? Methinks it is just bad video editing. Interesting, but he blows through each inspected round too quick and the glare of the light makes it hard to spot, even in freeze frame.
APACHE529CREWCHIEF
i caught that too, it must be one of those reusable primers.
2:39 - unfired primer. Whoops!
Can’t see that mark on the brass. Just do a study extreme close-up with an arrow pointing to the issue.
Decades ago when I was a dumb kid, I made some hot loads right out of a reloading book (without creeping up to the max load of the book as was recommended) and had large rifle primers that came out of the cases looking reminiscent of a shotshell base with rim.
Lapua
sulpert nl
Theres no firing pin indent at 2:39. lol. Edit much?
+Jordan Walter Nice catch.
D.P. I havent read where anyone is "bashing" someone else. But it does seem a little ridiculous to comment about someone who is commenting on their inability to derive the intended information from an INSTRUCTIONAL video due to a lighting and camera angle error.
What about stiff bolt-lift and obvious half-moones using factory ammo? The round in question is 7mm Rem Ultra Mag....
Honestly the smiley face make needs to be addressed more. What does it look like ,with a close up.
I didn't see anything he was pointing at. Should have zoomed in a little with the camera.
A chronograph can show pressure signs the best. Sometimes cases wont show signs of overpressure. Velocity itself is a pressure sign.
No your statement is so incorrect it's not funny.
The cartridge case flowing and or flat or flattening primers are over pressure indicators. Velocity can never be used to determine pressure. What the recipe provided says is the velocity with load A May have a higher or lower velocity in your firearm due to components that are not quite the same. Maybe it's a hot day when your shooting? A warm day can speed up a load 50 fps if not more during some really hot days.
Chrony is to check fps and load uniformity via fps and sds and spreads but not to check Max loads
@@williamdelarge2491 I disagree with the flattened primer's in my 44 mag factory ammo and my own loads have flattened primer's and extractor marks in them. Only my light red dot loads don't have marks on them.
I would have crapped myself having my hand there while firing overloaded rounds.
I disagree with your method. I have bought literally thousands of once fired brass from factory ammo at indoor ranges and about half the cases will have some ejector hole horseshoe track. In some instances the rifle bolt may have a burr edge on the ejector hole. I don't know all the causes but factory ammo is not so high pressure that it causes so many marks on the head. Head expansion and expansion at the web is more reliable indicators but it takes more skill and sometimes a micrometer to determine what loads are expanding the brass.
My rem 700 has always left a mark in the primer. Doesn't matter what ammo/load. Factory or home load
brentles are you using a full size die or bumping your shoulder? you could have too much headspace....
Yep. What Shannon said. Use a headspace gauge and measure a new case from base to shoulder, then measure a fired case from YOUR gun from the same exact place (base to shoulder). The difference will tell you how much stretch you are seeing in the case. I only bump the shoulder a max of two thousands.
It’s funny
Your trying to look for marked
You could not see
You said your going to show the obvious
Thanks
Lol
I would never use this method.
You spent about .5 seconds actuallly showing the marks.
How did this BS get 467 thumbs ups?!?
The obvious mark is not so obvious...in the video.
useless video if you do not show the marks you are talking about. Please include more accurate video of the actual moon markings.
Wrong way
Nope you are completely wrong with your explanation. Maximum powder charge is useing a 2x4 to wack the bolt open. Perfect load. That why we shoot rugar no 1s screw pressure signs go big.