Primer Sign Pressure Evaluation Revisited
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2019
- Turns out that utilizing the efficiency of shorter handgun cases, there is more room for performance than reported in most loading manuals that are forced to be conservative because of the old guns out there. Reloaders can use primer pressure sign evaluations to good effect.
- Фільми й анімація
I’m the FNG in reloading. Been reloading little over 6 months. I stay in the low end. My mentor makes some serious hot loads that I don’t mess with. I’m going to forward this video to him. He’s always talking to me about reading primers. Thank you. You’ve gained a subscriber.
I miss the UA-cam full reloading videos 🙁
I know right
rickrn2 - There are some full reloading videos under the OPEN HOUSE ALL VIEWERS videos on the 3 Circles patreon site for all visitors to see. Also, if YT does wind up banning all the reloading videos as they have threatened to do, the Reloaders Network is a very fine place to go. Best to ya, Steve
Thank you for producing these videos! I have learned so much about reloading from them!
d0yougetme - And thanks for taking the time to comment... Steve
Never stop making videos. Love your stuff and the way you explain things.
I load slightly under the published high mark of the load data spec when previous loads have shown no signs of high pressure so , for me I don’t have much practical experience with over the top high pressure indicators , other than what I have seen on video ! If there is a need for greater performance from any caliber , I would consider changing caliber’s. That may sound sissy but , I have lived 59 years without damaging or destroying any gun or injuring myself or anyone standing next to me ! For the high rollers who challenge the capabilities of guns and loads , I’m greatful for the opportunity to watch videos ! Thanks for the great cookies .
Hey Steve, I would have guessed the flat primer would have been the most pressure. Thanks for the lesson.
Wow, good demonstration of why a chronograph is important.
I have reloaded for years but I have seen many a primer completely flat with the machine marks from the frame in the primer from magnum revolvers with factory ammo. I don't worry about primer signs unless the primer pushes out around the firing pin.
joewcolt - You are referencing the tying up of a cylinder - not a good thing for sure. Hot ammo will do that. Sometimes oil in the chamber can do that with hot ammo. A defective gun can do that as well with magnum loads. I once had a revolver that would shoot standard ammo just fine. But as soon as the first magnum was fired, the cylinder tied up because of case set back. Thanks for your comment, joe.. Steve
Thank you for sharing all your knowledge with us
An interesting experiment would be to compare primer sign from same load same gun but soft primers like federal vs hard primers like CCI. Reading pressure signs is tricky!!!
Good point!
Thanks for the video 👍. This is a topic in which I can always afford to devote extra attention. I'm forever going back n fourth when checking my primers, never quite satisfied w my discission. Constantly worried I'm getting too close to that, "back off" mark... I end up under charging so many of my loads. So frustrating, It's like OCD for me 😬!!! AHGG!!! (I need a chronograph), Thanks FC.
TheReindeer TheRabbitTheBat - Chronographs are nice to have, but not essential (I don't see many of 'em at the range - most of the time, mine is the only one in sight). There's nothing wrong with loading up to 3/10ths of a grain below the max published loading data and getting good accuracy - and being happy with that. Once you get real comfortable with primer signs, case extraction and gun functioning signs for pressure of your loads, you can venture to max incrementally with confidence. Erring on the side of safety and caution is always good. That's what our loading manuals are for. Good shootin' to ya, Steve
Interesting. I'm hoping you'll be back to explain some more on this.
TheOkWoodsman - Yes, and as with the scientific method...each testing raises more questions that prompt more testing thereby increasing our base of knowledge. In our world of shooting, there is endless possibilities. Have a great day, Denver. The results are in the cue. Steve
I find that sometimes Federal primer pockets are a bit loose. I hand prime everything. It's easy to feel when a primer practically falls in. The primers sometimes flatten more than they would with other headstamps, so I try not to use Federal cases when working up loads.
_Suburban_ - That's a mighty serious vehicle. We rented one recently to make a sojourn to Seattle Washington - four of us and a hefty cargo. The feel of priming is important to our ammo consistency. If I ever get a primer going in without the same feel, I set those aside for sighters and fouling shots. Good shootin' to ya, Steve
This video broke my brain when you said 904 on the 44 mag
John B. - A 44 cal. 7.5 grain Unique charge / 240-250 grain bullet (the Skeeter load used in this video) gives you that velocity in the 44 Mag. Some 44 Mag shooters readily state that the 44 Mag can easily be loaded full spectrum from 650 fps to 1500 fps, and that is true. But if 900 fps was all that was desired, the 44 Spl case is more efficient and consistent without any real loss of accuracy. The chronograph tells the story with the efficiency and consistency. So far, accuracy testing supports no significant loss of accuracy, but even if enough data was gathered to establish that, the belief that "+ bullet jump = loss of accuracy" seems to be held as a given by many. Have a great day, Steve
Talking about depth of firing pin strike on the primer, while loading some reduced 223 rifle loads, I noticed that firing pin strikes are much deeper on reduced loads than on normal pressure loads. My reduced loads are producing 1600 FPS and QL estimates pressure in 18K psi range. I imagine that high (normal) pressure loads pushes the dimple outward resulting in a reduced depth of the dimple. So I’m learning that a deep dimple is not a sign of over pressure. Or at least not based on my experience.
Very informative
Loosening primer pockets (Federal not included) along with higher than expected velocities are the only somewhat reliable way to estimate pressure short of special testing equipment.
Fortunecookie . This was a prime video thanks for the info .
pull the bullet of factory rounds if possible from the same brand of your primers resize them ,leave the factory primer in the case load the case with your powder and bullet ,compare the fired primer with a fired factory round primer from the same box. you get a idea . if a revolver or other gun has a lot of headspace and or loose primerpockets in the case you get also flat primers
Hey hate to bother you about something different.
But I have never reloaded. But I am thinking of the Lee set the one you use a hammer . I have found a 94 375 big bore at a good I think price.
But if you can find it the 375 win. Ammo is very expincve. $ 45-69 i have been told you can use 33-55 ammo in it.
But it's expincve just a little less. $ 36-58. And is way less powerful.
Have you ever messed with a 375 win? If so is it worth the truble?
Is the little Lee kit a god way to start?
Can you use the coted bullets you have talked about in some of your videos with it?
And what do you think about using the 38-55 ammo in it?
BTW Buffalo bore states it's safe with there ammo
Any like your videos
And thanks for your help and time.
Have y
I just looking at flattening, flow and extraction. If also clocking velocity you should have a pretty solid idea of “hot or not”.
So would the 44 Russian burn more of its powder in the barrel VS the 44 mag burning most of it in the case? Great vid!!!!
cory8791 - When the primer detonates, the powder ignites and a portion of the powder charge is pushed against the base of the bullet. We know this because powder grain structures can be observed on the base of recovered cast bullets. If the powder charge does not fill the case volume, that dynamic is different with different powder positioning at ignition. Powder that is against the base of the bullet may indeed burn in the first part of the barrel thusly. The bigger case will not generate the pressure that the same powder charge will yield in a smaller case. We do know that excessively large powder charges will not burn completely with said barrel lengths so that power is wasted. Progressive powders in these 7.5 grain charges in all three of these cases probably has at least some of the burn still continuing after the bullet has left the case. Happens in milliseconds though. Internal ballistics is a real scream, isn't it?? Best to ya, Steve
Cylinder gap between it and the frame ...I had this primer flating with store bought ammo and my reloads in my 41 magnum lets the case rim bounce off of the frame possible causing the primer to move rewards out of the case flating the primer they make shims for S&W not sure about other brands
Chris 338 - My first 357 Magnum was a M28 Highway Patrolman S & W. I shot that gun so much with heavy loads, it developed end shake. Not just the primer flattening you mention, but I did blow the head off one of my 357 cases. Solution was to have a gunsmith shim the end shake, but I just sold that gun to someone who wanted a home defense gun instead. It was still a reliable gun, so I put M29 grips on it and sold it at an attractive price. Back in those days, all you needed was a bill of sale, hand him the gun and take the cash. We used to buy used guns through the want ads and face to face. Talk about freedom... Best to ya, Steve
Hey I need some advice. Would you recommend putting iron signs on a bolt action 270win? Thanks
I have learned that over calibrated cases can show signs for flat primers without any high presures. reason is that the case has to much room to grow, and the primer gets "ahead" of the case expansion, and thuss get sqeezed when the case cathes up. You ned ALOT of presure to flatten a primer in a correctly sized case. but some calibers are more prone to it then other.
So Steve, what's your opinion on loading .38/.44 Special cases above published data WITH the intention of only shooting them in Magnum revolvers? I have a ton of .38 brass that I picked up for free at the range, my two Charter revolvers from the 80s are .357's, so is there anything wrong with loading .38 cases to .357 Mag pressures of say, between 25k and 30k PSI?
Another great video as always.
Dick Tickles - One of my favorite loads for the 38 Spl case is none other than the 172 grain Keith hard cast bullet and 12 grains of 2400 powder. That load in any of my 357 Rugers will take any short range deer, hog or black bear nicely. I would definitely not shoot that load through any of my 38 revolvers and all of this ammo is labeled NOT FOR 38s in big red warnings inside and out. Have a great day, Justin.. Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC Obviously safety would be of the utmost importance in making a load like that and separating that ammo from normal .38 would be a necessity.
If only there was as much .357 brass available for free at the range, I'd take it and use that, but 'tis not.
Hey fortunecookie!
Long time viewer and I have 2 questions/ideas for videos.
1. have you ever gotten your lead levels checked? I have been worried about lead exposure from firing, handling weapons and ammo, reloading shotshells, collecting range scrap, melting lead and casting round balls...
2. Could you do a video on small caliber reloading? I have a 32 acp and a 380, and I would like to cast bullets and reload for them but you only focus on the bigger rounds and I would like a great video from you on smaller stuff!
Thanks
Could you do something similar showing the effects of different primer brands?
I began loading my 9mm with CCI primers and then had some Remington ones on hand. I used them in the exact same load and the fired cases had VERY flattened primers, with cratered firing pin indents. Same load that always worked just fine with other primers looked dangerous if you only considered how the primer looked. I don’t use Remington primers anymore after that.
did you use the same type of primer ,small pistol standaard and not magnum or leadfree
Is it possible for a bullet to achieve greater velocity with lower peak pressure is the barrel is longer for more time with the pressure acting on it?
👍 Thank you
Nice video, can you do the same with the .357 Mag, .38 Sp., .38 Long and .38 Short Colt please?
Keep in mind there can be variances between different brands of brass with same powder loads.
I am not a hand loader so I don't know much about this. I am dyslexic and getting number mix up would be bad. But I do injoy watch for the pure learning about it.
Since you shoot a lot of the biger guns. With a 2 in snbnosed 44 what do you think about the 200 gr hp win. Silver tip? Or the federal 200 gr swc hp?
I usto just carry the 44 mag. But my wife got me one of taures ultra lite 44 spc. So I carry it most of the time.
I started with the hornday crital defense. I shot a small hog with it. At about 20 feet. It didn't do to well.
It's my ccw carry gun but the reason I have for the most part used the 44 was the chance of having to shoot a bull or stud now these averaging wildhogs are way more likely than some one.
Thanks
Tbj Tbj - Congrats on your big bore snubby...!! Even Dirty Harry used 44 Spl loads in his Maggie - even with Hollywood flap, there was some wisdom there. You have a serious defense piece there. Any of the ammo you cite in your comment will do for any defense, deer or hog purposes you mention. And for inexpensive practice, you could load up the Lee 200 grain RNFP with 6.9 grains of Unique to duplicate those factory loads and save same for carry. Good shootin' to ya, Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC thanks
I knew this was a trick question from the start , so I was thinking the Russian from the start . What got my attention is it looks like the primer face picked up the breach face texture ?? Hard to tell from the photo ??
Thanks Dan for doing the observations. Yes, it was a bit flip flopped. None of the cases showed high pressure, so the rating of lower pressure levels can be a confusing exercise with conflicting flattening and indent signs as this video brings out. Since there are no high pressure signs here, it's all good. Have a great day, Steve
So basically what this video is telling me. You can't go by primer signs at all Just how hard it is to extract the shell.
I've been an avid reloader for nearly 40 years now, and both of my uncles, my father and grandfather are and were avid reloaders going back more years than probly anyone watching or even the guy making this video, and with all that combined experience to call upon I can say with clear thought and consciosness that only the slightly foolish will become trusting of trying to "read" the primer to determine if pressures are going too high,There are WAY too many variables in primer construction from brand to brand and even lot to lot within a given brand, you can't trust how the spent case extracts from the gun as any real true way to judge either as wall thickness, hardness of the individual casses can vary due to manufacturing flaws or work hardening and if they were annealed propperly to maintian the propper hardness so they have that "spring back " effect that allows them that fractional amount of clearance from the walls of the guns chamber so they can extract propperly ( these things can all be used to at best have a very slight indicator of pressures but should be as they say taken with a very skeptical grain of salt at best) then when you figure in enviromental factors like ambient temprature, elevation, barometric pressure, temprature of the round at time of firing, all of which can have anywhere from little to great change on the overall pressure and the pressure profile of a given loading, an example would be that I live at a place where the elevation is about 4000 feet average, and the average summer temp is about 80 degrees ferenhieght, I'm going on a hunt for wild boar in southern Texas where the elevation is barely above sea level and the temps go over 100, anyhow I get up one morning with my hog getting gun and a bunch of loadings to test, each loaded with slightly more powder trying to get that magic number of every last foot per second and foot pounds energy, and it's about 50 degrees at about 9am (what summer morns average where I'm at), I drive about 7 miles to the place where I shoot with the ammo and gun in the unheated canopy on the back of my pickup so evrything gets nice and chilled down, then when I get to where I shoot I find a shady place so I don't have that hot sun beating down on me later, and then I pull out my portable shooting bench and all my gear set up targets and chronograph, all the while the gun and ammo has remained maybe not ice cold but pretty darn cold, I proceed to load and shoot, I shoot the first loading and it's way less than impressive and even lower than what the book shows it should be.....Oh well I shoot the next and so on but then all of a sudden I shoot the next and now all of a sudden WOW I've found that magic load the velocities are awesome and it's giving me awesome sub minute groups and the primer seems to be not showing pressure signs (hopefully you are still under any reloading book maxes unlike a few idiots I've witnessed over the years), you think your good to go so you go home and load up a couple boxes to take on that trip to Texas, you get to Texas and it's a HOT day (especially for someone used to only about 80 and low humidity of only about 25-30% as where I live), and the hunting guide or maybe just someone you know wants to hurry you out to the hunting area because a couple huge hogs have been spotted and they would love to see you bag one of them, so you grab your gun and some ammo throw them both in the hunting vehicle were the hot sun is beating on them and head out, you catch up to the hogs and go for the shot bang...OH crap he's still kicking and try to take off, you try to rack another round in the chamber and it will not budge.....WHY?......well you just became a victim of temprature change induced pressure rise both from the differing temperature of the gun's barrel and chamber and of the ammunition, not to mention the effect of elevation difference along with humidity and overall barometric pressure of the place you are now using said "pet" loading, my one uncle was a hunting guide for many years in Idaho where I happen to live (now at 73 has just a year ago finnally retired from doing so) and I've worked many years with him as a horse wrangler for the hunting parties (packing in gear and what not for the hunting camps and so on), because of this have seen this happen more than once to guys that bring their handloads for hunting that's why every hunter that does so is made to shoot a few rounds before going on the hunt to prove accuracy and function or they get a refund and are sent home (hopefully you take this time and do the same before that Texas hunt no matter what may be waiting hog wise), I realise that looking at primers has been a long running way guys have used to determine pressures when trying to determine that ultimate pushed to it's max nursed it for the most of all aspects (accuracy, feet per second, foot pound energy and so on ) but there in lies the problem it's just maybe pushed to a point where the margine of error or better said the margine of safety may be being cut just a tad too thin, give the uncontrollable variables, There is a damn good reason why 100 year old ammo manufacturers such as Remington, Federal and others tend to load their offerings to the conservative side when compared to the even slightly "warmed" up loadings that are even listed in reloading manuals, it's far more prudent that if you need more power or better trajectory to seek out a gun/caliber combination that offers what you need with a bit of a degree of excess, then to try and push a lesser combination beyond it's easily achievable comfort zone, it will in the long run be easier on your equiptment, body, and pocket book. P.S. your little test on this video can be explained rather simply, it all comes down to case capacity the russian yeilded higher velocity with the same loading because of less case capacity causing slightly higher pressure than say the 44magnum with it's much greater case capacity (44 magnum average is about 37 grains H2O 44 russian is only about 27 grains H2O ) the special would fall somewhere mid way in these velocities and pressures with the same loading of unique as does it's case capacity at 33 grains H2O, it's no real mystery why you got the results you did, SAAMI max pressure are as follows for these rounds 44 russian 14,500 psi, 44 special 15,000 psi and 44 magnum at 36,000psi, your loading of if I heard correctly 7.5 grains of Unique is well below those pressure thresholds for any of those rounds if using bullets of light for caliber weight (180 to 200 grains or there about but absolutely not over the 200 grian mark for the russian considering slight changes in powders from lot to lot and bullet to bullet), just looked at one of my old loading manuals from 1958 and there is a loading with a 205 grain cast lead bullet number 429215 lyman using 8.5 grains of Unique (primer un-specified) as a max giving 1015 feet per second velocity, so no pressure signs would be expected give the guns shooting them have no problems and are within mechanical specs for the round they are made to shoot, but these loading will be pushing the Russian to very near or right at it's max comfortable limits to be sure, and most suredly the russian in your test is running at higher pressures with that loading than the special or the magnum would be due to their case capacities, I've had the great privledge of living very close (about 60 miles from Lewiston Idaho where CCI/Omark industries is located ) I even lived in Lewiston Idaho and worked for Omark industries for a short time and became friends with a guy that worked in the ballistics lab there, now nearly 30 years later he's retired but we are still friends and even occasionally go hunting and shooting together, so through him I have learned a ton of stuff about ballistics and have gotten a ton of information on the subject, people just don't know how some of these factors I have mentioned come into play and way too many think they are but are not balisticians, play it safe and follow what the reloading books say and check them against a few other sources when doing so, and if you can't get what your looking for from that combination of gun/caliber/loading then move up to the next more powerfull gun/caliber that will and still be well within the safety margin. take care and I hope my long winded book here helps to stear my fellow gun hobiests in the safe and prudent direction.
looseballs 1966 - Thanks huge for your comprehensive comment - read every word of it. Ever since the first firearm, with obturation established, pressure for any given bullet weight yields velocity. The job of the gun is to contain that pressure so that the shot can be delivered safely and with repeatability so the shooter can gain the benefits. And your point on temperature conditions is well taken - match shooters have to deal with that constantly, even trap shooters use the old ammo in the sun to good effect. Our range has a thermometer on the wall to provide that information to all the shooters. And when my late friend John did his successful African safaris, the high temperatures there had to be taken into consideration with his 375 H& H reloads - he hunted elephant and Cape Buffalo where fast second shots, if needed, were highly regarded. Skeeter loads in the 44 Spl are more than safe in any of our 44 Magnums in good condition. The safety margins are there as you have pointed out. There are still those who wish to hot rod their 45 Colts when 454 Casull guns are available. But it is the point where we are winding out third gear and shifting to fourth - how close to the red line do we want to take it? - every driver does that. Trouble is, we don't have any tachometers, and we don't know exactly where our engines will blow. You are urging all the teen agers to not find out. This is fine policy indeed. We learn about pressure signs from our manuals and our experience. Thanks again for your input as, for sure, there is no fun to be had if our guns blow up. With safety, all is good. Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC Yes that is my point exactly, don't push that redline too far untill you have enough time behind the wheel and before you for sure have tried it out with all the variables tested, and that as you stated also just takes the time of experience, nothing worse than seeing someone new to the sport getting hurt becuase those cautions were thrown to the wind, anyhow take care and good shooting my friend.
I was thinking they all look fine.
"A little more?" Hmmm. I think you are wrong and encouraging people to take dangerous chances with their powder charges. Richard Lee wrote about the dangers of "a little more" powder in his book "Modern Reloading" second edition. There is a point where an increase of just 0.1 (one tenth), of a grain will push a powder charge into the dangerous pressure range. Often "a little more powder" doesn't yield any appreciable velocity, or accuracy. The gains are too small for the risk incurred. Study the load data on the Hodgdon online reloading website. Take note that the highest velocity isn't always produced with the highest pressure.
I like your videos FC, but this one generates concern. We don't need people blowing up their guns from using "just a little more" powder based on a fired prime's appearance.
R, Steve
I believe you are taking what both Fortune Cookie and Richard Lee said out of context. Good judgment is the best protector in almost any situation. I have reloaded over fifty years and have many times used the same sort of evaluation process FC is using and never damaged a gun. I have seen guns of others blown up, but it was always due to a double charge,or firing another round after a squib load, for instance, not from carefully working up a load while judiciously examining fired cases for pressure signs. In many cases the cartridge FC is working with (like 44 Russian and 44 Special) are loaded very lightly in deference to the fact that there are older, weaker guns out there, some 140 years old or more in the case of the Russian. But if one has a strong modern gun like a Ruger, there is no reason not to explore the capabilities of these cartridges as long is it is done carefully by an experienced reloader like Fortune Cookie who can assess the safety margin he is working with.
In the youtube option to report a comment they need to add a check box for "insufferable Karen". 😂
Trick question. Can't tell by looking at three different cartridges. Watching from the start of load development and numerous other things only gives a general idea. Get a case stuck or a primer to blow out and you'll know you screwed up.
Am I mistaken?Thinking of a bullet in an automatic and not a revolver. Bullet speed is not a link to pressure unless the projectiles have the same weight and same coefficient of friction in the barrel. A more accurate measure would be the inertia of the bullet. taking account of the weight of bullet and friction of the bullet at firing. Higher bullet weight and friction will give higher pressure, not necessarily higher velocity. Is this the same for revolvers?
Chris Smith - You also need to take into account the bearing surface. A higher coefficient of friction but with less bearing surface would yield the same bore friction as a lower friction bullet but with more bearing surface. Also, the depth of the rifling would also be at play. A barrel with deeper rifling would have more friction with the bullet. You would only compare pressure and velocity with the same bullet weight as you have already pointed out that heavier bullets shoot slower with identical powder charges than lighter bullets. Going to lighter bullets (less bearing surface) with expansion with maximum loads was the driver for Super Vel ammo back in the 70s - and Super Vel has risen again. This discussion is all good stuff.... Steve
The weight of the bullet that’s being pushed down the barrel is a factor too. From the 44 Russ to 44 mag, I would expect to see much higher pressure in the 44 mag due to the heavier bullet. Is this assumption wrong?
Fortune Cookie reloads his own cartridges so I'm pretty sure he used the same bullet in each caliber . Probably the 245 grain semi-wadcutter as 7.5 grains of unique behind the afore mentioned bullet in a .44 special is what is known as the "Skeeter load" . This load is named after a famous gun writer who wrote for a gun magazine (forget which one) and who liked hot .44 special loads.
Luc Ferguson - Yes, heavier bullets put into the same powder charge will have higher pressure and lower velocity. Takes more powder to get the same velocity with a heavier bullet. And often times, trying to get high velocity with a heavier bullet cannot be achieved without going over the max SAAMI pressure = unsafe. That's why, if you examine the loading manuals, you will see lighter max powder charges with heavier bullets. Solution is to go to a bigger case volume cartridge with slower burning smokeless powder to take advantage of progressive burn = higher velocity with heavier bullets safely. This video was to show that smaller cases do have potential in the above discussion, that has not been taken advantage of because of all the weak old guns out there. In a 44 magnum revolver, that potential can be realized. Stay safe though and work up carefully watching for pressure signs. Best to ya, Steve
Kasumi Kojiro - Thanks for your comment. Indeed, same bullet and the gun is the strong Ruger 44 Mag Super Redhawk, but any 44 magnum or modern 44 Spl would provide all the strength needed and more for the loads in this video. The Skeeter Load put up in 44 Russian cases is going to be a favorite load of mine henceforth. 1050 fps with a 250 grain hard cast bullet with fine shootability in my 44 mag Vaquero or 44 Super Blackhawk would be a fine trail or range load for sure..!! Skeeter wrote for Shooting Times, and his relaxed style was much appreciated. Best to ya, bro.... Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC Thanks for the reply. Just wondering , how is the accuracy with the short Russian round out of the magnum cylander ? I have dies and brass but haven't tried it yet .
Each care had the same potential energy.
I assume all were fired from the same 44 Magnum revolver.
The distance from the primer to the Cylinder Gap is the same. So the burn time in the cylinder & barrel cannot be the reason why The Russian produced more velocity.
A variable would be the distance in the cylinder the bullet travels after breaking free from the crimp. The Russian seems to be in the sweet spot.
So, are you colluding with The Russian to make 44 Russian Great Again ?
The difference is that there's a lot more powder to air ratio in the shorter Russian case than there is in the .44 Mag case.
Hey Carlos, how have you been? Fantastic!! No to colluding with the Russians. A lot of their angst is that 25 million Russians died in WWII so that their claim that the victory against the Nazis was bought with Russian blood still drives their politics today. And 13 million Chinese died. Perhaps it isn't all funny that these two who lost all those people are our two worst enemies today. 7.5 grains of Unique in the 44 Russian case and any good 240-250 grain cast bullet is going to be a favorite load for my 44 Magnum revolvers. If I want more power, I'll go to 10 grains of Unique in the 44 Mag case. And for full 44 magnums - 22 grains of 2400. Good shootin' to ya, Steve
Doing as well as possible.
The Genocide that the Soviet & Asian people's withstood from the Axis formed a fear of the Western powers. It also left them ripe for a Nationalist Government to protect them. Hopefully things will continue to erode the walls that have been built.
I am curious about a '38 Russian' to bridge between 38, 38+, and 357. Ditto on 45 caliber. The 44 Russian seems unbelievable since they designed it without an iPhone App...
I poke holes in paper so I don't need big heavy bullets. I question why I load 158 grain bullets for 38's other than because. Then I see 230 grain bowling pin wad cutters in 38 and see a 45 powered 38 tumbling bullet.
This is the worst hobby ever...
T
@@livincincy4498 The closest thing to a ".38 Russian" would be .38 Long Colt. Steve has done some stuff with .38 Short Colt, but the results were unimpressive.
Perhaps .38 Long Colt would be different?
I have thought that the 38+P was the elusive 38 Russian as far as performance.
Taurus makes a DA / SA revolver with a quick cylinder change that shoots 9mm, 38, & 357. The 9mm shoots like what I suspect a " 38 Russian " would.
I will have to look at the relative capacity of a 38 long colt to a 9 mm. I suspect that trimming a 38 to a 9mm case length could be done with a Lee tool.
I am not sure that the science community would be satisfied with the simple inference that the muzzle velocity was a confirmation of the pressure in this comparison. You are essentially stating that low muzzle velocity means low cartridge pressure. I am not sure but I don't think that would always be true. You neglect to identify other impacting elements of the process. For example , you did not qualify what the mass of the projectiles were for each round in the comparison. A significant greater mass of projectile could be enough to show higher pressures in a lower muzzle velocity. Did you use identical projectiles in all three rounds?? I have a science background (albeit rusty now) so I think the experiment did not have enough controls described for your statement to be taken as valid. Intuitively I would agree. But intuition only leads to hypotheses. Properly controlled experiments lead to results that could verify the hypotheses. I think there are several other controls that would have to be introduced for you to be able to confidently state what you stated. ...... :) Interesting information though.
44 special 44 Russian
Danny Tapia - Yes, and yes... we don't need the big 44 Mag case unless we are rip roarin' hair on fire hell for leather... hmmm...you get the idea... Steve
Flat primers are a no no.
Not necessarily, as demonstrated by this video.