THIS WILL BLOW YOUR MIND! An RV Comparison that's too True to be False!
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- Опубліковано 21 тра 2024
- #rv #towing #trucks
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Here’s another analogy; I purchase a cheap off brand drill for occasional use knowing it is not the best. I pull it out of the box, charge the battery and it works, again, and again, etc.
So then I purchase a not so cheap, supposedly name brand RV for tens of thousands of dollars. Take it home pack it up and try to use it. Much to my chagrin, it doesn’t work “right out of the box”. In fact the defects can be so bad and insidious that it is unusable and must be repeatedly returned to the dealer for major repairs. Oftentimes the dealer is unable to correct the problems. Then one must try to get satisfaction from the manufacturer which can also be a challenging and ineffective experience. When these avenues are exhausted, then one must start dumping money into a unit that still has unrepaired defects from new and is barely out of a warranty which has proven to be worthless anyway. I lived through this experience having spent $75K on a new toy hauler in 2015 that was unsafe to tow, falling apart in the driveway, and spent six months of the first year of ownership on the dealer’s service lot. I see all the videos of people who are going through the same thing these days and I feel for them. Thank God we were finally able to get out from under that disaster, oh it cost us dearly financially, and two of the worst years of our life. There is no excuse for poor workmanship at any price point, and no excuse for rolling defective products out the door. Doing assembly work correctly does not cost more than doing it poorly.
True, but If you read the reviews on the drills, about the same percentage of folks buying the cheap drills as those with RVs complained that it was DOA, failed shortly upon arrival, didn't perform as expected, or had some other related issue.
Brother, I understand that a $75k hauler isn't a cheap purchase. In the world of Toy Haulers though, comparing it to an ATC would be the equivalent of a Ryobi to a Milwaukee.
Unfortunately, anything over 30ft that's under $100k is considered budget oriented compared to the ultra high quality units. My Coachmen and Surveyor are included in that as well.
Don't confuse quality with luxury. If they cannot build an ultra high quality trailer and sell it for less than $100k then they aren't doing it right. Toyota has been doing it in the automotive market for decades. A trailer doesn't even need to go through the same governmental red tape as a Toyota.
If an RV equivalent of a Toyota came along they would slay the market.
Let's at least agree that RV manufacturers should be doing better than they are at the current prices.
@@chrismiddleton801 so, Toyota makes MILLIONS of each model and spends billions on developing even their cheapest car. RV industry is literally on the opposite end of that type of development from a quantity, budget, and engineering perspective. That said, there are literally dozens of brands that make small, extremely well built RVs. They tend to be price for their size though. The Automotive industry is very unique in how they budget, design, engineer, and manufacturer their products because of the sheer money that's involved. Even a low cost brand like Mitsubishi spends billions on their cars, and still make a vehicle on the lower end of reliability.
Craftsman is kind of a good example of the RV industry as a whole. Once a highly-regarded, quality product, cheapened over the years, and getting by on name recognition alone....
My expectation is that I get what I pay for. And, lately, I feel I'm not getting what I pay for. For anything. Let's use drills as a prime example. Typically you can buy a dewalt/milwaukee/ryobi/whatever drill combo with 2 batteries, case, charger for a decent price. But go buy batteries on their own and you're paying just as much, if not more, for the batteries than you are the combo. So either the combo is just that good of a deal or they're absolutely bending you over for the batteries by themselves.
Yeah, your spot on. It's becoming a we'll known fact that buying tools with battery is just as expensive as batteries alone. I guess you gotta try looking at the glass half full, your getting a free tool with your battery right? Lol
On batteries, wait for the sales...I've seen 2pack of 4Ah batteries on sale that are sometimes cheaper or equal to just the single 4Ah. Same goes for the smaller 2Ah batteries. Several youtube channels with content on the best deals for any given product. As consumers, we have to be savy and sometimes be patient.
The phrase, "You get what you pay for" isn't always true. Back in the 1970's my father had a small machine shop. At one point we had a higher end drill (I think Milwaukie, but not 100% sure) and some cheap K-Mart special drill. The K-Mart drill was older, lighter weight, felt cheaper, but never failed. The higher end drill either burned out or stripped a gear after a few uses. He sent a letter to the company who then sent one of the sales reps out of a local office to check on the issue. Dad told them what happened, handed them both drills and some heavy piece of scrap metal, then challenged them to damage the cheaper drill. They tried for a bit and gave up. He did get his money back, so in a way he got what he paid for, since he ended up not pay anything for the more expensive drill and got nothing.
Great analogy! Knowing we will not spend over 6 to 10 weeks a year in our RV , it's hard to buy top of the line!...But you still should be able to have it screwed and glued together properly !
My milwaukee 1/2 impact with the high output battery and sockets is the #1 investment I ever made when it comes to tools.
I believe that is an excellent analogy. Too many people want to buy the cheapest tool and use it repeatedly and be upset when it doesn't last like one that cost five times more
JD…I know this is a dicey proposition, but for those that are new to RV’ing, it would be great if you could put the various RVs out there in “bands”. Maybe “value, good, better, best” or even a classic tier list (S, A, B, C, D, and F”. That one might be harder because I know you wouldn’t want to crap on any brands…
You have no issue citing the “best” tier when you mention New Horizons or DRV, or Van Leigh (when they were around). Obviously there are divisions within manufacturers (Solitude and Reflection for Grand Design or Paradigm and Avenue for Alliance, etc) but if you had broad categories to put many of these manufacturers in to, that could be very helpful to the aspiring RV buyer.
This might be a moving target list, but having all that information in one place to help buyers could be a great resource for the consumers. Just a thought….keep up the good work!
i'm a dewalt guy because that's all the batteries I have. don't feel like starting over haha!
All of my power tools are Ryobi I bought a 5 piece tool bag 17 years ago I've built 3 decks still use them quite often and they all still work very good 👍 if I ever have to replace one it will be with another Ryobi
If I was a professional using them every day, I wouldn't use Ryobi, but as a homeowner they're great. Good value, quality tools.
I’ve had the same dewalt 18 volt multi pack with 5 tools for probably 15 to 18 years. I upgraded the batteries to 20 volt about two years ago with the adapter. They’ve been great tools. There’s only a few companies that make their own tools now and the quality of Milwaukee and Craftsman aren’t the same as they were 25-30 years ago. To much “stuff” being made to be cheaper to throw away and replace instead of lasting for decades like they used to be !!!!
I buy all Ryobi tools. Ryobi tools have got a lot better then the past years. I buy Ryobi because they are ferrly afraid. For what I do is some huge projects one and a well. I do some small jobs and my camper or my home. Thank you for the videos!
Actually, what I do is to go to Project Farm and look to see if he has done a test on the item that I am contemplating to buy. LOL
Unfortunately, when discussing consumer items (such as tools), just about EVERYTHING is made in China and four or five companies are making 99% of the items. The same internal components in that Milwaukee are probably the same as a cheaper off brand. I once saw a chart with all the tool manufacturers and let's just say, there is a lot of cross-pollination going on.
I’ve never ever had a Craftsman anything, be it an electric screwdriver, drill, saw that lasted. I’m done, no more wasted money on that brand.
I have had craftsman for years ….. I never used it professionally but I definitely used it as a diyer…. It’s lasted great….
I agree with your logic, especially if you are starting from scratch. But one needs to consider the other tools that one will want and pick a brand that provides these tools so only one set of batteries is needed. I started with Dewalt tools (I’m not saying they are the “one” type to buy). But the batteries are the major expense, so it is cheaper to stay with the brand that you have batteries for.
There's always a context when comparing. Everyone, like you said, has varying expectations. demographics also plays a part, you have experienced RVers and new ones. Unfortunately, marketing takes advantage of the newer consumers entering the RV arena. Ex. "Our units are four season..." Most believe marketing like this to be true, and with some brands it may be, but paying $30k for product "A" thinking it's a four season RV, then realizing it's not, is where I feel these companies have to be accountable. The adage where you can say anything and get away with it, for the most part, has to be changed. I have heard and seen too many newer RV owners basically spit out verbatim what these companies spew out, and they believe it, only to be greatly disappointed when faced with issues, and even some of your videos have touched on this aspect. Building better units cheaper is only a start...
The main reason that I stick with one brand is battery lock-in. (I only moved from B&D to Craftsman because B&D wasn't keeping up with the newer technology...)
Thank you for being honest and telling it how it should be told. Too many people are afraid of being honest and true. Keep it going.
I agree on the sales person comment. Their goal is to make a sale not steer you to something that will last you a long time. There are some dealers and sales people that may really care about customer needs but there are plenty that dont. Rv and truck sales people are pretty much the same. Say what they need to, to get you to sign the deal. Ive seen dealers that give the generic max tow/payload ratings of trucks without actually looking at specific truck. RV dealers saying that of course your vehicle will do fine with this at the limit trailer.
Like your video's. My main rule is: ABC, anybody but China. When I was at my first job on a small WW2 destroyer in 62 I was on Formosa Patrol for 5 months. Also you said " heaven forbid you are full time" , been doing that for over 35 years 😂 One I've missed is having all the TOYS you have. 😊. My main rule is buy a RV 2 to 5 years old that is a solid brand and do your own repairs or pay for them yourself. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.😅
Exactly my point from your last video. The solution is already there. Price point and features/quality that manufacturers build into each unit are intended to meet the individual use requirements of each end user. It’s up to the end user to find a balance between price, features, quality, etc. when selecting an RV. We all have different needs. That’s why I think a service that matches the purchaser with the correct rv for them would be a hit. With so many choices a rv purchasing service would help people to purchase the right rv the first time.
At this point I would trust a DIY Foamie trailer to last longer than the crap rolling off lines now. Convert a cargo trailer or build your own if you really need durability
The pace of technological innovation and manufacturing improvement has made this harder for most people to make good choices. Despite that, I think that many people have a skewed perception of value and believe anything "new" is "good", which is a vast oversimplification. What this complexity really means is that we need to perform our due diligence now more than ever, and sources such as BTBRV and ProjectFarm help a lot.
Great analogy... ! Love it! The difficulty in RV's is how does one identify the DeWalt .... vs the Temu version? I use my RV alot... and it is FANTASTIC so well built. It's now 10 years old and I'm terrified to try to upgrade to be honest. Not even sure the same brand is "the same " quality. See craftsman comment below...
I would add.... if you are a person that "needs" the latest "features/amenities" you are NOT shopping for longevity. Note: I didn't say quality. Point being, just like the drill, if you're gonna buy a new drill every two years... well why buy a DeWalt? You COULD if cost is no object... Just buy a new one with the "kit" every two years. But if you wanna buy an RV and not have to buy another one for 10 years... you are definitely going to have to live without the latest "features" or "kit" :)
I agree with you’re comparisons and I fully understand cost versus quality. I have a 2021 cougar fifth wheel and overall have been happy with it. However there are things that can be done to improve the quality without increasing the cost. A very small improvement in effort to just be a little more particular during the construction process would go a long way. For instance there is no reason for all the bubbles in the roof membrane like I see on almost every rv. Sloppy silicone caulking on the exterior. Wiring under the underbelly that’s a rats nest. Stripped screws because they are over tightened. These issues could be easily resolved with minimal increases in labor time and only minor process changes during assembly.
Totally get it,,, With my budget I'll take a slightly used Milwaukee off marketplace. Lol
I understand what you are saying. We have owned 2 Flagstaff RV'S and now a Rockwood. These are the same RV. The cost of these were more then several rv's that were larger and had more glitter to them, but the fit and finish are nowhere near what we have. We will not even look at any other brand. .
Great analogy! 100% agree!
So you are saying I should buy 4 Colemans instead of one Bigfoot?
I bought what I thought it was a midgrade Milwaukee ( Grand Design) turns out it was a Ali Express underneath.
A Milwaukee quality comparison would be more like a Luxe, ORV, Oliver or other extremely high quality and expensive per ft RV. Grand Designs highest end would probably be more like a Craftsman or Ryobi.
Pro @ work Milwaukee all day every day, at home I have Ridgid bc of lifetime service.
You should've used Harbor Freight in comparison.
Rv build quality is very questionable along with pathetic 1 year warranties.
I get the analogy. I always buy the best tools because I use them often and depend on them. For an RV we use, like you said, 6 times per year for 5 nights each trip, I opt for something less than the very best. However, Montana is really good quality for the price point.
I get it JD! That’s a perfect analogy! How you feeling now that it’s been a while since your heart attack? Hope all is well!
Good analogy with this video
It's one thing to have a well built RV but it's another to have an RV that looks well built. Like the old saying goes. Lipstick on a pig. Sometimes it comes down to how something is assembled. I have found most of my issues with my RV is screws stripped out and using the wrong type of screw. Plus we as RV owners have been conditioned over the years to expect problems because we are consistently being told it's an RV and they are an earth quake on wheels. I have to disagree with that. RV manufacturers need to find that happy middle ground between quality and profit. It seems they lean more towards profit. Also if the RV manufacturers knows we are only using them on average a few times a year they why do they only give a 1 year warranty? If the average RV owner is only using it 24 days out of year and yet they are still falling apart with in that first year isn't that a manufacturing problem? Name any other product we purchase for that amount money that only gets used 24 days out of the year. If a person owns there RV for 5 years and takes it out 24 times that's a total of 120 days so a 4-5 year warranty would be more in line. I'm guessing your cheapest drill you have will last longer than a 120 average usage.
It's a good question but in the world of r-v construction price point does always guaranteed a better built trailer . I expect at a entry level price point to find glue and staples and hopes and dreams stickers wrap beaver puke particle board and unreinforced cabinets drawer bottom so the bottom falls out and poor fit and finish , but as I move up the higher price points on r-v construction I am still finding the same shit built built cabinet construction with unreinforced cabinet drawer bottoms the same stickers wrap beaver puke therma foil but now it's pocket screwed what ever happened to using old school formica countertops they are almost bulletproof as for durability and cheap compared to a solid surface countertops buy it by the roll at Home Depot , so just high up the price point chain does a person have to to go to find quality construction ?
If you're only going to use something once or twice a year, get something cheap (tools or RV's)! If you are going to use something a lot, and need it to work hard, and be super reliable, spend the money on something good! Always gotta get the right tool for the job. My dad always said.....buy once, cry once, or you will buy twice, and cry twice.....
One thing for sure if you would have about any of those drills and they didn’t work when you took them out of the box you would have a problem. It’s not the quantity of the quality you buy one of these travelers fifth wheels and I have five and since 2020 the first time you go out in them, you have a problem, and it’s hard for the manufacturing to accept the responsibility of fixing them even though you have one year warranty and it takes a minimum of two months get some of the simplest things done. It’s not the cheapest but the one that at least works when it comes out of the box.
If you read the reviews, about the same percentage of folks buying the cheap drills as those with RVs complain that it was DOA, failed shortly upon arrival, didn't perform as expected, or had some other related issue.
I'm sorry to disagree with you but the problems in the industry go alot farther then just buyers expectations with certain price points. This is about Quality and workmanship. Just because I purchased a more I inexpensive RV does not mean I should expect shoddy workmanship. They need to do better.
Thank you
Grand designs is like a $23 cordless drill. Got it.
To be clear, most RVs sold at most dealerships are somewhere between the $25 drill and the $55 craftsman.
Great video
To me, it shouldn’t matter if you buy a cheap drill or cheap RV. You should expect it to work as intended. With a cheap drill you should expect it to do light occasional work around your house for several years. You may need to eventually replace the battery, but the drill should continue to work for its intended purpose. If you buy a more expensive top of the line drill, you should expect it to also last several years, with battery replacements, but you should be able to drill 1/2 or larger holes all day everyday with battery changes or charges. With a cheap RV, you should expect to use it for occasional weekend camping with maybe a week long camping trip once a year without any real problems. If you purchase an expensive RV, you should be able to live in it and haul or drive it all over the country. Cheap drills and expensive drills typically work as intended without issues. Cheap or expensive RV’s do not! They all have issues even when they’re new! We always hear that RV’s aren’t built to haul around the country, or not built to live in and use everyday. Why not? Why when spending $100k and up is it expected that there will be issues, even minor issues? Why do moldings and other minor things fall off when transported from the manufacturer to the dealer? It shouldn’t happen. A dealer shouldn’t have to do anything to an RV when they take delivery other than wash it. We buy cars for less than $100k and they rarely have immediate issues when you drive them off the lot. I realize in many instances, the RV industry utilizes cheap materials and lightweight materials to keep the price and weight down, but that doesn’t mean they need to be put together like crap. You should be able to buy any RV, and use it as it’s intended without problems, just like a drill!
Brother, I think that ANYTHING someone purchases comes with an expectation that it "should work as described" whether it be a drill, bug killer, deodorant, a TV, a plastic fork/spoon and especially thousands of items sold on Amazon. Reviewers on Amazon are proof that this doesn't happen in quite a few cases. RVs are no different, except they have hundreds of individual parts that must be assembled correctly and all must work independently and many as a whole. The cheaper, quicker, and more units they build means less time and quality goes into each one independently.. this leads to production that struggles to keep up with the demand, and things get missed. It's NOT right but it's a fact of just about everything you buy, unless you specifically pay more for something better OR he product is so simple in nature that the chance of failure under normal use is so minimal I would rarely happen (think a 2x4 piece of wood). We often expect performance out of everything we buy, no matter how inexpensive it may be compared to a similar product that is more expensive and obviously better built. The RV industry has so many areas they can improve BUT you and I both know, if you hunt for a quality RV, that does it "the right way", they are out there......just at a price point most can't stomach, afford, or willing to pay... considering how often they plan on using it. That's my .02
I get it.
I just don’t agree with this analogy…. There are Rv’s that were built before I was born that are still in pristine condition…. No matter what the buyer uses it for it’s going to get sold and used for many many years…
Old DeWalt tools.. just outdated tech but still reliable
Great analogy. Just hope you actually didn’t buy something from temu.
Now, make the cheapeat one 50,000 dollars.
People spent big dollars on a brand that was marketed to them as a premium brand. How many UA-camrs were touting the quality construction of those things?
So now we are supposed to believe that if they build them to the level of quality people were told they were getting, the cost is now going to be astronomical.
I get the feeling this video is meant to prepare us for price increases and we will, once again, be told how great the quality is. It will be the same thing all over again.
The real problem is that the public has conditioned the RV industry to expect to be able to manufacture inferior quality products.
We need to quit buying this junk.
Some, maybe many, companies will have to go bankrupt and disappear.
After the dust settles and the RV industry understands that we are serious about demanding acceptable quality for a fair price, there will be companies sprouting up to fill the void left by the mega corporations that went bankrupt.
If one of the new companies gets bought out by a mega corporation then the public needs to immediately shun them so they can't take a good name and run it into the ground.
I don't disagree
The power tool analogy is a good one. If you're a professional who relies on the tools day in and day out to make a living buy the high quality tool because downtime has a cost and over many years you'd likely be replacing it enough times to justify the higher cost. If you're a homeowner who just needs a drill for some random project and then it's gonna sit for a year till you need it again, you'll probably never wear out the $30 drill and if does fail your only out 30 bucks.
Same with RV's... if you're planning to go full time and travel the country, the cheapest 35 foot ultralight on the lot might not be the best choice.
Think about how much it costs to build a house.... now design that house to withstand daily/weekly earthquakes and hurricanes while also making it cheaper and lighter....oh and build it in less than a week.
Quality is so far down now it is not funny. We have been looking for an older camper for my son, 1990s to mid 2000s and they are all better made over todays units. Real wood cabinets in a small 14 foot campers is common, screws not staples and appliances that are original that still function well. Still usable older campers are out there that are 20 to 30 years old. I do not think the majority of todays models will not make those ages sadly.
Cry once, buy once.