Speaking of Bariss, there is this great quote about her in the Ahsoka novel: Her criticisms of the Jedi were valid, but the way she went about addressing them was not.
It's interesting the contrast between Barris and Ahsoka: while Barriss is the result of a blind commitment to the Jedi's philosophy, Ahsoka is the result of the "thinking out of the box" approach that started with Dooku.
It's pretty ironic when you think about how one of the Clone War's major villain's mindset ended up making one of the best and heroic jedi other there.
@@kaijuguy19 Dooku iirc was never really full "dark side". Not to the degree someone like Palpatine or Maul was. He had very rational and practical reasons for leaving the order, and his motivation for leading the separatists was well founded and reasonable. He sort of just "slipped" down the dark road. Palpatine may have seduced him, but to do so he had to play off of his critical thinking and his rational, rather than his emotions. The man was not wrong about really anything. Everything he said to Obi Wan when he captured him, and most of his plans, took into account exactly what eventually came to pass. He, like most Sith, just planned to come out on top. And like most Sith, he didn't.
Completely true. Anakin, as the master of Ahsoka let her think freely and bend the rules as necessary, while Luminara's teaching was very rigid and dogmatic. It's even reflected by the way Barris introduced herself to Ahsoka and Anakin with that courtsy. They were like "What the heck is this formality?" It was so cringy, but that's what happens when you're being raised to be a perfectionist and you become full of suppressions in the process. No wonder she turned extreme, this happens to many people in real life as well who are in similar shoes.
Barriss is nowhere near a blind commitment. She is a perfect example, for how a jedi had to be, until she lost faith in a working jedi order. Barriss is questioning the jedis involvement in the war, is studying the past to not letting it become the future. A lot of comments are about how bad luminara trained barriss, how open minded anakin trained ahsoka, but in the end it was their downfall. You can argue about the way's of the jedi and their teachings. You can argue about the cruelty, taking parents their children away at an age, where they cannot remember them. Still, its a usefull tactic to prevent attachments. Anakin couldnt deal with his attachments. Its not his fault, he already had some before joining the order. Not the jedi philosophy brought them their downfall, rather them not commiting to it. Barriss has a lot in common with dooku and Qui-Gon about questioning where is the line between right and wrong. Obi-wan is more of a by the book guy, and he even is with anakin, atleast he is playing it in the public. He got a nine years old boy, missing his mother, dealing with his emotions. No other jedi had to deal with his padawan this way, so its more plausibe that obi-wan gets more attached to anakin than he would to some other padawan. Ahsoka gets more attached, because well, anakin deals with a lot attachments.
I couldn’t believe how fast her master gave up on her in the second battle of Geanosis . She was just like “ok well , they are dead , let’s go meditate. She also got shitty with Anakin for wanting to save them.
Ah yes. Because caring about someone and actually thinking well maybe they're not dead is overrated. And the planet Mirial. Cold and dry, just like Master Luminara.
@@mattstorm360 You could NOT FEEL and still think, "Hey maybe they survived", but also: Wouldn't it be a valuable waste of assert to just throw away a skilled trainee without checking to see if we could rescue her?
She is actually a very interesting character, and her master was a terrible mentor that definitely did not help her situation. If she had a master like Obi Wan I actually do doubt she would have done the bombing
You are correct. If she had a master like Obi-Wan she would have just marched on the Temple with clones, killed all the younglings inside, and strangled her pregnant wife.
@@Gameguy-gk8lx even if it is a joke, u actually make a good point lmao. However I think the biggest thing that caused anakin to do that was joining the order so late in his childhood which caused him to have connection and experiences outside the order. Hence why Ahsoka didn't want to train baby yoda in the Mandalorian
The story begins with Luminara praising her, rubbing in that She and her Padawan go by the book like a good jedi unlike naughty little Ashoka and Anakin. However when push comes to shove it was the black sheep Anakin rescuing them. It must have hit her mentally like a sledgehammer, when she realised her master had forsaken her, the only being that shoud have had her back did not squat a eyebrow when she nearly died, and moved on as it was "the jedi way" not to form a attachment. Realising she was no better than a clones or the droids, just expendable meat to the corrupt senators, and ironically it was Skywalker and Tano that made her see reality. I think the whole attack was because she envied Ashoka over Anakin. Because for all intents and purposes he acted like a brother to Ashoka, denying emotions does not mean you work trough them, it simply eats you from the inside, thankfully most of us have grown into healthy families but for those poor especially human souls kindapped by the baby snatchers this is not so. Sidious wasn't wrong to call the younglings "victims of the jedi" even if he's no better at least he is self aware, for the most part at least.
Luminara was a very powerful jedi: Proceeds to completely underestimate her enemy, loose the fight against a dark assassin and to not even try to save her padawan.
in a sense luminaras whole cherictor can be summoned up as luminara was a vary powerful jedi: That was it, she had nothing else going for her because she represented all that made the jedi bad.
@@kevind3974 But, if you rewatch the 2nd assault on Geonosis, you will see, how surprised/stunned she was, as she saw Anakin remove all of the destroyed factory. Even though she probably knew, that Anakin was stronger than her she probably would at least know, that it should be possible for a mighty Jedi. So in my book, she cant be as strong, as she is portrayed in the video. Which is great btw.
The part that you point out about the younglings not having a parental connection, bring Yaddle to mind. She was actually one of the very few that nurtured the younglings. She treated many of them like her own children. Despite her and other Jedi, not being allowed to have children, or love connections in general. She was able to be very motherly, and I think has helped many of the children. Which if I'm correct Anakin was young and being trained before the death of Yaddle, and I'm think she may have been part of those who helped Anakin keep himself. Even after becoming Vader.
@@GenerationTech I thought she died protecting the children. A bounty hunter threw a grenade, so she catches it, and uses a force shield around herself and the grenade to absorb the blast.
@@jamesgolden7317, that’s in Legends continuity. In canon she left the Jedi Order after sensing their downfall to go back to her home world. There are theories that she is the mother of Grogu/Baby Yoda/the Child. She’s going to be a playable character in, “LEGO Star Wars: the Skywalker Saga”. Which is the first time she’s made any appearance in a LEGO game. Perhaps they plan on doing more with her character.
You know the worst part about her betrayal? She doesn’t even look remorseful about it being Ashoka as the scapegoat. Her beef with the order was one thing, but how do you do this to your own friend who saved your life twice? She doesn’t even look at Ashoka during and after the confession.
I think it does goes to show how utterly broken she was by both the Jedi Order and the Clone Wars as a whole that she pretty much no longer cared about even her own friend's safety anymore. If that doesn't show how utterly messed up the whole thing is I don't know what does.
@@kaijuguy19 I think it goes to show that the showrunners didn't give a shit about her character and only used her as a reason to get Ahsoka out of the Jedi Order.
@@ohmyoof3pizzaman205 this is actually supported by that they were going to do a scene of her execution but they cut it out, they then said that they did this as there have plans so there is evident that they are going with this concept
I mean she was eaten alive by her jealousy. Her Mother Figure treated her as completely disposable and barely of any true worth. She learned that following the rules is worthless, and being a Rules Breaker can give you rewards. She learned envy and saw her friend Ashoka get what she craved again and again and again...while she had to deal with unmet needs again and again. She was suffering inside and it broke her. That shit really eats away at you. I actually lost a friend due to being in a bad place and continuing to be envious. Of not being able to contain my pain. It's AWFUL. I don't excuse her...but I DO feel for her. An that's on top of feeling the Evil/Dark Side stuff that was coming from the temple and who knows what else. Which certainly didn't help matters. I imagine that was also driving her insane. It's also possible she was picking up on traces of stuff with the clones, due to Order 66 too.
But this led to one question here: Should Barriss Offee be actually classified as fallen to the Dark Side? At first, I thought so. But now that my eyes are opened with the help from this channel, I think not. Like the members of the Jedi Council, she is blinded by the Dark Side. She merely just had a different reaction. If she was actually fallen to the Dark Side, she would have leave the Jedi Order and join Count Dooku already. Heck, she might even be willing to assist Darth Vader and his troops when they marched into the Jedi Temple when Order 66 is executed.
That's a good point. In both Legends and Canon not every force user who does horrible stuff is labeled to the dark side at least from what I've learned from SW lore so it wouldn't be out of the question to see Barriss fall into that catagory.
Honestly I thought that too in the beginning, but thinking back to some of the events that were described in the video I have a different theory. So towards the end it was mentioned she had taken a form of drug that greatly enhanced her connection to the force, but brought her dangerously close to the dark side. Her trial was well after this event and when discussing this towards the beginning they had said she might have sensed some form of influence happening to the order. I'm wondering if when she was that close to the dark side she didn't pick up the innate sense to seek out such influences. Leading up to the bombing it's clear the order isn't what was, in fact many Jedi by this point would be feeling the stress and be as susceptible to darker influences just cause many have reached this point and have no real way to come to terms or be able to move past certain events. Some even doing such events with little to no regret or any feeling of responsibility. Thinking to all the other stuff she experienced up to that point and going through point with the drug she may have seen something was very wrong, and having no real way to stop it other then to make it more difficult for those people to commit more harm she was willing to take matters into her own hands. As stated it was against order to question the council and their rulings, so going to them or any master was not an option. Trying to involve members of the Senate would only complicate matters or backfire and rat her out, there by defeating the purpose altogether. When looking at things in that way the bombing and the attacks make slightly more sense. Trying to remove the weapons, equipment, and the people who were in her mind complicit. Now the biggest draw back I see to this notion and some of the video's is the fight between her and Anakin, the dialog they had during it seems more on the dark side aspect. But what if she herself knew she was tainted by it and accepted it, realizing that sometimes it was necessary to make a deal with devil to fight them as an equal. She knew what she was doing was wrong, but was convinced it was the only course of action to take since her other options were practically non-existent. And unlike some of her fellow Jedi she felt weight the of the responsibility of her actions and had been able to come to terms with them in order to stay the course. And consider her people's culture and believes this does have more of a consideration if her own master also instilled those very believes during Barriss's training. In which case I don't see why she wouldn't have since the Jedi gave special treatment to Mirialans for them to train their own and maintain their customs. That could allow her follow her own path that didn't let her fall into the dark side, but embrace and accept that it was part of her nature and that it proved to be a powerful tool when employed properly.
Did she have a point, yes. But her point was instantly rendered not credible the second she resorted to terrorism. "The Jedi are corrupt, let me prove my point by bombing the Jedi Council killing innocent Jedi, clones and civilians alike." Hmmm, something ain't right here.
@@cheekibreeki904 we only take them as serious if they actually come out victorious. Remember this the original founders of the US were terrorists in the eyes of the British Empire. Ultimately its whether if they win or not that when we take their message serious or not. Not some Morale high ground
I disagree they're points are credible or not credible not because of her choice to do violence it ultimately come to whether she was victorious or not that. Remember this the original founders of the US were terrorists in the eyes of the British Empire. Ultimately its whether if they win or not gives the credibility of a point or cause, Not some Morale high ground
One thing I like about Barriss is that during her confession she specifically said “we” Not for one second did she try to argue that she was innocent in all this, nor did she say that she had no choice or any other bullshit that villains usually say. She fully acknowledges that her actions are fucked up and that’s the problem She knows that she’s not any better than the people she’s grown to despise. She’s entirely self aware and she just doesn’t care because life just hit her exactly that hard
That's actually an excellent detail. If they'd actually bothered to put in the work to develop her, Barriss would have been the best character in the entire Clone Wars series. They did her dirty because they couldn't be bothered to give her a character arc before tossing her away.
“I hate how the Jedi have become war mongers and murderers. That’s why I’ve decided to re-embrace my pacifist Jedi teachings by bombing a hangar full of civilians.”
I mean it was about far more than that. There were a few big points here: #1 She learned that her mother figure saw her as someone that would abandon her and gave zero fucks about her because "Emotions and attachments bad" #2 Her entire worldview was also shattered that day. She learned that following The Rules was stupid and dumb. That it just got you FUCKED! #3 Her continued envy with her friend Ashoka. Seeing what the other girl ahd over an over....while she thought and felt that she had little other choice. She couldn't get her needs met. An she couldn't exactly go around talking about her feelings of envy either. So it ate away at her until her pain overcame her. #4 Her being so intuitive I think the WRONGNESS of the Jedi Temple didn't help. Since that was SUPPOSED to be her Safe Space, but it wasn't safe at all. Which just really degraded her mental health more. #5 How was she taught to solve problems in this new age of war? VIOLENCE! So I am sure that's what she thought was best. Even better if she could inflict pain upon Ashoka who she grew to hate.
@@TheAyanamiRei Bariss didn't hate Ahsoka. She loved Ahsoka (not like that...well, maybe, but that's not what I mean) and she wanted Ahsoka to see the Jedi the way she did. It's fucked up, but that's hardly surprising. She's just another victim of Yoda's god complex.
She sacrificed herself with hope that jedis will understand what this war makes them. She used her own as an example, and some jedis understood her sacrifice
After her arrest in the Clone Wars, Dave Filoni decided to keep her alive because he felt like she had potential for future stories. I wonder what that means....
@@FlymanMS That would be exactly the opposite of her character after going rogue, though. She's fighting against the Jedi's corruption and views them as being taken over by the Dark Side, why would she join the Sith?
Or taught people how to control the dark side. Or actually teach them to handle things like emotions. And if the Jedi let people have relationships and kids, them no dead Padme and all that.
Indeed. If the Jedi Order didn't invest so much time, energy and people into the Galaxy's politics and instead kept to themselves is the only justifiable way for this "Abandon all attachments" mentality they have. Regardless of how one is raised, anyone that puts themselves in the boots of a public servant like a police officer, doctor, firefighter, to soldiers, generals and politicians, you're always gonna end-up developing attachments towards something/someone in the world around you. The Jedi Order's one size fits all policies and rules for its members during the Clone Wars Era in my opinion did more damage to their members then they protected them. If people like Baris or Anakin had the knowledge that they could express their problems, fears and concerns to their piers without the nagging feeling that they'd get punished or excommunicated from the Order for going against certain rules that are in my opinion are impossible to follow in their positions, then their downfalls would've been far easier to avoid and prevent.
Honestly, I couldn't agree more. Much of the problems the Jedi faced when one of their own went off the rails can be pretty much summed up by similar videos. This is never to say those who go bad are fully innocent, but that they've not had the support to keep their heads on straight. There's no sense from the Jedi that they understand psychological needs beyond getting someone to the point of being able to meditate and then trusting that the Force will heal their minds.
Its amazing how the person responsible for the downfall of the order was able to raise a jedi greater than the order. Not in power or strength, but in character and resolve. That as jedi yes there is the warrior and monk aspect, but at the core of both is humanity. A possible balance anakin brought was balance to the personal jedi. That luke and those in his order recognized that they needed to have attachments and families rather than rigid rules.
One of my biggest problems was the Jedis' half baked response to Barris's attack. They kicked Ahsoka out, the GAR wanted to execute Ahsoka and threw responsibility away from themselves and portrayed it as her "great trial," however, they let Barris back onto the field....
I do not believe this is true. I think that is old canon. She was sent into custody which in turn saved her life from dying on Felucia like she did in Legends. Order 66 saved her life because Ki-Adi-Mundi wanted to kill Quinlan Vos for betrayal and I would guess Bariss would also be on that list.
Dude. That was probably INTENTIONAL! Imagine how freaking pissed Anakin would be knowing that Barriss got off scott free and eventually became a knight, when Ashoka was going to be executed. You can bet your ass Palpatine had a hand in it and probably worked behind the scenes to get her pardoned from the courts. As for the Jedi, I really think she must have realised how much she fucked up by the end. I don't think she originally intended for things to spiral into insanity like it did. The Jedi even let Revan back into the order, so they're all about forgiveness as long as you actually learned your lesson.
@@The_Moe_Szyslak_Exp_feat_Homer from the legends timeline Barriss knighthood came before the bombing, but have her knighthood reinstated Anakin might also get angry from that.
@@TheGoodOne1998 How do you know the knighthood was before the bombing? I'm curius, cab you give me a timeline? Are you refering to the ending of Medstar 2? The book said that when she overcame her addiction to the Bota drug, she saw that as passing her knight trials. But that's just what SHE thought. The Council might not have agreed willy-nilly just because she felt ready. From my understanding, all we know is she had her own Padawan at the very end of the war, but that could have easily happened after the bombing.
in the new comics, during a battle in the later years in the war, Barriss expressed her disillusion with the Order while watching native sacred sites desecrated by both sides either getting caught in a crossfire, or for the sake of a battle plan.
The comic was called Paradise Lost. The theme of the story suggests that it was her guilt about all the civilian and clone casualties in the war that lead her to the dark side.
Here's a puzzler: Who trains a Mirialan if there happens not to be an available Mirialan Jedi Knight or Master around to do so? Is that Padawan simply left twisting in the metaphorical wind? Or is the tradition not so rigid as to allow for another species to train the Padawan, at least until a Mirialan Jedi was freed up to take over the responsibility?
I reckon if there wasnt another Mirialan available, the padawan could go to any other master. It only becomes an issue if there is another full grown Mirialan available to squeal about the breach of tradition. So pretty much until Luminara came along I doubt it was a problem, but Luminara is such a stick in the mud she probably ranted until they gave her Barris.
@@Cryogenius333 there is also the fact that Coruscant isn't the only planet with a Jedi Temple and a Jedi Council. That's why Yoda's Council was called the Jedi *High* Council. If there was no Mirialan Jedi Master for the Mirialan Jedi Padawan in one Temple, there's a chance that there could've been in another.
While I agree with you, that doesn't make her any less of a tragic victim. Her guilt in the bombing and framing attempt does not in any way absolve the Jedi order's guilt in their abuse and neglect of her and her issues.
@@neoblakkrstal9865 Well the Jedi did send children to war. Did the Jedi not think that the children would end up developing psychological problems when they got older?
@@liamyuki2316 You are placing our culture onto that of the Jedi. Remember, the Jedi believed that The Force brings peace. It was probably thought that those endowed with the ability to use The Force would be able to handle it. Was it foolish? Yes. Did they ignore possible consequences? Yes. Am i excusing such behavior? No. I have always believed that The Jedi were just as bad as the Sith. Opposite Extreme and all that. But this in no way excuses Evil behavior on the part of Barriss. She is still responsible for her own actions.
This particular episode if very profound and very well communicated. Your take on the faults of the Jedi are true and plentiful. Yoda finally realizes this at the end of his life and sadly this was the greatest lesson of all. Arrogance is blinding.
@@Cryogenius333 Same with dooku, Both of them said they had premonitions of the jedi order being destroyed and knew that the only way to survive was to get out asap
Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) is no joke. My wife and I learned about it in our foster parent classes. I never considered it as part of the Jedi. Interesting.
Damn these comments make me sad seeing everyone ripping on Luminara because her character got turned into stone cold asshole in TCW compared to her previous warm mentor relationship with Barriss in the EU :(
The whole lack of a healthy parental figure was basically Anakin's undoing too. Qui-gon in the duel for Anakin's fate (yes that was a deliberate reference), and he was the one who could have brought him a greater sense of security and stability. Obi-Wan was a "company man" to the Council and therefore wasn't equipped to meet his padawan's psychological needs growing up, causing him to find a fatherly refuge in Palpatine wbo only manipulated and exacerbated his issues until they boiled over. One wonders why Anakin butted heads with Obi-Wan under his tutelage as much as he did, only for them to develop a more full and meaningful relationship when Anakin was no longer a subordinate, but it makes a whole lot of sense when you realize that Anakin was basically being bossed around by his insecure older brother who did the best he could, but didn't know wbat to do with him half the time. Siblings, literal or figurative, don't make for the best parental figures because it's just not the same. It can work, but it's pretty hard to compensate for the lack of a healthy parental bond even with the necessary emotional resources to do the best they can, which Obi-Wan clearly didn't have (which wasn't entirely his fault). Anakin called him a father figure in AOTC simply because he was projecting his own needs onto him, and Obi-Wan simply didn't know how to be what he needed, causing resentment in Anakin for not measuring up. The reason Anakin and Obi-Wan developed a strong friendship and brotherhood is because they actually cared about each other in spite of it all. They just didn't know how to relate to each other until they were the brotherly equals they were always meant to be. While that was great, Palpatine became the surrogate father figure who took advantagr of his psychological needs that Obi-Wan couldn't meet. Qui-gon dying was the one thing that made the rest of the saga possible. With a master who had the balance to both guide and nurture him as a father figure (because he was wise enough to know how to play fast and loose with the Council's inadequate code and knew when it fell short of their ultimate purpose as Jedi) and a brotherly and friendly bond with Obi-Wan, Anakin would have both psychological needs provided for by the right people in their proper place after leaving home. Palpatine would either have a much harder time manipulating him, and that's assuming he would have even had an opening at all. In a lot of ways, in spite of their clear differences in personality, both Bariss and Anakin lost it for a lot of the same core reasons. Ashoka even left for a lot of the same reasons. Ashoka harbored the same complaints Bariss and Anakin did as well, but she had the strength to leave that unhealthy environment and to better herself in contrast to her best friend and her master because I think Anakin was for Ashoka what Anakin never really got, the right person at the right time in the right relational fit. He provided Ashoka with an emotionally safe and constructive environment for her to grow and knew when and how to give her enough leash to think for herself and gradually assert her autonomy as she grew and matured. She turned out alright because Anakin was the kind of person she needed. Plo Koon seemed to have filled more of that parental role (it seemed unique that Plo found her as a child and that they remained as close as they did). That left Anakin to be an older sibling who could both show her the ropes and be a down-to-earth friend and companion. I think the brilliance of both George Lucas and Dave Filoni is that they crafted their respectove stories in a way that these plot lines did such a good job expounding on the familial angle of that all-encompassing theme of the importance of love.
Wasn’t it said in Swotor that the Rakatans experimented with humans to create perfect slaves. Zabraks as muscles and Twi‘leks for fun times with a lightsaber
@@generalkenobi4683 the contradiction is that it’s said the Rakata created them during the decline of there empire but there are Twi‘lek Jedi on Tython during the height of their empire but most likely like usually in the EU the writers kind forgot the established lore
I think you hit the nail on the head with your video on Barriss and I know you've shared rightful criticism of the Jedi Order a lot more indepth on other videos and you only sumerised that here and Barriss's story but I feel like your whole video could have been a lot more indepth as a whole. You also neglected to mention that she was a trained Jedi Healer and operated on battle injured clones and others. She was an active member of the war for years and combine that knowledge and your video and her youth and I'd say she was suffering from PTSD but didn't know how to handle it. Her master being on the Jedi High Council and the expectations that came with being a Padawan of said person probably didn't help her either. She was also probably suffering from nightmares, insomnia, flashbacks, guilt, and trouble connecting with people. I've always said she was probably suffering PTSD and though I don't think that the Jedi or the Sith using terms like 'light side' and 'dark side' of the force were entirely accurate, I do think that one of PTSD's effects was bothering her. A lot of people with PTSD try to avoid reminders of their trauma and have trouble responding emotionally to others. Kick in the fact that the Jedi were about no emotion; which is BS and you have a person who purely cracked. If you consider that she may have thought that killing her friend and trying to get Ahsoka killed may have even been a blessing for them and releasing them from the pain of the war and death. I don't think she fell to the dark side per se, rather she went looking for answers and used the dark side. The Jedi weren't helping her and told her to not feel anything so she did but she couldn't shake that the whole situation was wrong so she went looking else were. She was trapped in her mind and didn't know what to do. Like all people in a high stress situation, they have a breaking point. That's why militaries send people on leave. The Jedi never seemed to get that fact and in the end Barriss snapped like any normal perosn would have. It just didn't end well for her and a lot of other people.
In a very short time she had been emotionally and mentally manipulated and twisted. She would have made either a very good mentor or an excellent villain. So familiar but also tragic.
What kind of inquisitor are we talking about if it is not the imperial inquisition of star wars then it can only be one thing... WARHAMMER EXTERMINATUS INQUISTORIUM BABYYYYY... joking it would be the Spanish Inquisition
Alan, one question I’ve always had was why Jedi retained their last names if clinging to one’s past was so discouraged? Yoda doesn’t have a surname (at least to my knowledge), but even the traditionalist and conservative Mace Windu continues to keep the family name. It just doesn’t seem fitting for an organization like the Jedi Order.
I enjoyed this video. I found the psychological assessment very informative and I agree that it's lazy to think that she just fell to the dark side. More likely she saw something wrong with the Jedi order and because of her emotional detachments she felt it was her duty to force others to look at the Jedi Order the way she did, albeit in a more extreme way. But luckily for us Ahsoka who did form attachments was able to walk away instead of trying to enact change at the level that Barriss Offee did. .
We know she was welcomed back to active surety in Legends as she died in the field during Order 66. Would what argument was used for her to not only remain in the Order but allowed out in the field. I believe she was highly skilled at Force healing but Council was willing to let Ashoka die so would love to hear the argument that spared Barriss life.....at least for a few months
Alan, I think this was one of your best videos. I really liked the psychological theories and effects you mentioned as well as the real world correlations. I myself am a war veteran, medically retired police officer, and a student of criminal justice, philosophy, and psychology. This video and the issues you mentioned really resonated with me. Great job and good luck to your wife on pursuing her degree!
Barriss is one of my favorite characters in Star Wars. Even when she went mad with the problem of having the Jedi order as it should be and what she believed the Jedi order to be and what it was in reality. And how blind the council was in all that has happened. All the way to actually using slave soldiers to fight the war .. because .. honestly that is what the clones have been. She must have had a massive case of PTSD and most likely no one to talk to besides other radicals (since I assume that both of her helpers have been on it from the start and ready to besically becoming suicide bombers. One actually doing the bombing and the other in order to set the other part of the plan into motion). The only person she could possibly speak to would have been Ahsoka. And I guess she could not really do this since Ahsoka must have looked like the perfect Jedi to her who still went along with the war without second-guessing it. And don't forget that she was on Umbara too and that was one horrid set of fighting and it broke another Jedi as well. I would think that both her and Krell have seen the same thing coming. But while Krell decided to join what was comming, she decided to try to prevent it (sadly, she might have been already too damaged to think that anything but the most drastic method would have any chance of success). So I guess that Barris wanted to both force the Jedi order to look at itself in a mirror and to make Ahsoka understand what is going on. The problem was, that while no sane person could ever believe that Ahsoka did it, the Jedi council actually did. And just like Luminara abondoned Barriss under the factory, the council abondined Ahsoka and wasn't that willing to actually conduct a proper investigation. Palpatine must have been twitching with glee and thinking that he could not have orchestrated this better. The Jedi council being told right into their faces what they are and shown their own failure by Barriss and what become of her, and yet, no one of them even remotely understanding it. All the great masters of the order unable or unwilling to face the truth. All of them so stuck up in the war that none of them even daring to think about what they are actually doing. With people like Windu acting like a uncompromising warmonger and Yoda seemingly so eager to understand the big picture that he lost sight of what is going on right in front of him. I would also never accept the idea that Barriss actually has fallen to the dark side. I think even with what she has done, she would never stop loving the Jedi order and the ideals it stands for in her mind. The ideal that besically could not hold up in reality and broke her in the end. She did all that she did .. a very wrong idea on how to do it .. to save the order from itself and to make it stop being a part in the war but to get back to being keeprs of peace. Becoming a force for the dark side would be absolutely against every idea that has driven her to what she has done (in my reading of the situation at least). Barriss is a wonderfully tragic character that deserves much more attention and more stories to be told about her.
Barriss is one of the deepest Characters in all of Star Wars... I don't agree on what she did, but she doesn't seem to be a person with bad intentions... Hope so much we get to see her again and she somehow survived... I'm kinda sure Ahsoka could forgive her
@@Andrewbaysura1 I thnk that forming a more Humane Jedi order would not really solve the problems. As I see it, both the Jadi and the Sith are two sides of the same coin and both are the logical extreme of each side: absolute selflessness vs. absolue selfishness. As long as both exist, the war will continue as there is no compromise possible on each side. And each time someone starts building up a temple, it will inevitebly end with the same blindness and selfasurence that lead to the disaster of the Clone Wars. After all, there can be no balance if you just follow one side of the teachings and the only way to prevent such things from happening is to actually look for balance in the middle of things. So maybe the Galaxy would then finally see some .. more or less .. lasting peace. Or rather .. peace from space wizards battleing it out between each other. And I would claim that even then there would be room for many good stories. Sadly however Star Wars is locked in the easy way of good vs. bad and has not taken the route of really looking into its own philosophy and if there might be some more thought provoking stories lurking beneth the surface.
So given all this is there any wonder why uncle Palpatine had an easy time converting padawans to the dark side & becoming inquisitors PS still waiting on my ewok roast.
Did she have a point, yes. But her point was instantly rendered not credible the second she resorted to terrorism. "The Jedi are corrupt, let me prove my point by bombing the Jedi Council killing innocent Jedi, clones and civilians alike." Hmmm, something ain't right here.
“All the Jedi Council believes in is violence!” *says this after murdering innocent people and then attempting to frame and murder your friend for it* But yes she saw the corruption. As did Dooku before her. And Anakin after. Look where it led them.
I think this was a very well thought-out discussion on Barriss's motivations. Her entire storyline reminds me of some terrifying real-world examples of soldiers returning from overseas so messed up from PTSD they don't even resemble the people they used to be.
I feel the blame falls more on her master than the order…a detached (even for the Jedi) philosopher who exposed her to the worst of the war and would only respond with a dogmatic this is the right way don’t question it surely didn’t help Barris properly process what she was going thru
11:20 -11:44 That's a good point, in fact at the beginning of the clone wars film just before meeting Ahsoka, Anakin literally said to Obi-Wan "Do you really think it's a good idea to bring a Padawan learner into all of this?"
I do hate how almost every psychological of emotional problem with Jedi gets boiled down to the “Light Side/Dark Side” dichotomy in much of franchise. The Jedi way, at least as we saw in the prequel era, is so flawed that it isn’t hard to realize why so many of them did actually go Dark when they faced external problems and got so little emotional support.
If I remember correctly, Barris' original fate was to be knighted and then die during Order 66 on Felucia. She was there I think to aid Aayla Secura or something like that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's one of the VERY few criticisms I had about The Clone Wars S5; they altered her fate. I really liked Barriss and thought she deserved to be knighted, even if it meant she'd die. Alas......
Ahsoka is a problem with the Jedi Order. Ahsoka destroyed an entire ancient 1,000 year old temple during a battle she and Barriss were fighting, which caused her too.... Oh right, we're talking about canon.... Ahsoka 100% good, Barriss very bad!
Common psychology doesn't always apply to jedi since they have the force, and the force connects them to the entire galaxy, affecting the way they psychologically develop. I think Barriss had other problems too, she probably started turning to the dark side due to the influence of the war around her, and in the process she probably went through the veil of the emperor. Palpatine blinded actively the perception of the jedi but dark force users were able to feel through that barrier, better or worse. Most of the jedi that felt the other side of that veil turned to the dark side, Krell being another example. They got exposed to the huge presence of Palpatine, they felt how the jedi would fall, and SPECIALLY noticed their mistakes.
The fact Barris was made a Jedi Knight and not Ahsoka show's how biased and stupid the council was. Windu and Mundi probably hated her for being Anakin's padawan, smh.
Good watch. I run Star Wars tabletop games, and have one set in the Dark Times, and I've been considering including Offee in an adventure. Mostly as a cameo, and possibly as an adversary. The character's flip from Jedi to Terrorist was interesting, and seeing someone else try and break down the characters motivations and reasons is great for me to bounce ideas off of. After all, she was right about the Jedi Order of her era.
So basically A jedi mind is like an empty fortress surrounded by a huge wall That wall will keep everyone out But if anything happens and a breach starts, there isnt a single soldier in there to stop the enemy from taking over The jedi has a thousand tricks to not feel emotions, but when they finally feel them, thats when they become confused and the sith are born
What I don't get is why frame her best friend of all people? I get she hated the counsel, but I thought she had a bond with her. Ahsoka would have died if her plan was accomplished!
Anakin: "My mother? Oh, Master Windu secured some funds to free her about three months after I joined. Master Obi-wan set her up doing clerical work on one of the core worlds. We speak every other week. I can more readily clear my mind and separate myself from attachment just knowing my only family is safe." Padme: "Huh. Neat."
Very insightful and very interesting analysis of the psyche of a character we haven’t had much to learn about. Brings a lot of depth and contemplation to her character arc in the Clone Wars.
Her motivations for betrayal were so stupid. Horrendous writing. Just nonsense. They should have tried a tiny bit harder. If she was making a statement, framing some random Jedi and killing randoms without any message or identified grievance (until she actually managed to get captured) doesn't match her ideals or rationale Its just bad writing. Plain and simple. People who attack people or blow something up to make a point don't just hide and do nothing. They use that fear as motivation against continuing that course of action by their victims. She didn't do this. She just killed someone, framed a friend who doesn't have anything to do with her grievence really and then planted a bomb. And her grievence was that the jedi believed in "violence" Bad writing. If she were trying to protect some particular group from the jedi (like maybe the war victims?) then she her bombing of innocents on corusaunt may have made sense. But she didn't say this because the writing was bad. It could have been revenge for the Jedi constantly putting her in danger including on Geonosis. She makes no mention of this. She could also have just had a lust for the power of the dark side and she somehow believed that this killing would assist her on this path but she also makes NO MENTION of this. Again. Stupid. There were plenty of reasons to commit general violence but not because she objects to the Jedi's general violence. This could have been fixed with one line. For every win Star Wars seems to have there is an unfathomable fail in the writing right around the corner.
The answer may be that she fell to the dark side, but the question that should be asked is how and why. the jedi order never asks them the questions and if they do, it is only in the council
She accuses the Jedi of only caring about violence but they are currently in a war that was started by the separatists. What exactly does she expect the Jedi to do? Just sit down and do nothing through the whole ordeal?
That's some real insight into the psychology of basically a child soldier, and why it's really difficult for them to interact with their environment in a way that is perceived as positive. Also, you're married to a developmental psychologist? Cool
The trouble with psychology is that it's invariably based upon cultural bias and limited by observation. That is why "experts" in behavioural sciences went from recommending primal scream therapy and actively encouraging the use of Valium for stress in the 80s and 90s but now "experts" say something very different. Years from now they'll say something different again. Psychology has many similarities with fashion with a cyclic pattern of old becoming new resulting in cars. Only recently I saw articles encouraging swearing as a means to relieve stress showing a return to 80s ideology. To say that children need at least one person to form attachment is dismissing the fact we know people imitate their surroundings. Children especially learn a great deal from observation not just interaction. Imaginary friends can become as important to children as real people and we're all familiar with the idea of safety blankets or a soft toy becoming a source of comfort for children despite being inanimate. So no the idea that, as a rule, children don't development emotional maturity and social norms as a result of unaffectionate parents doesn't hold water and really oversimplifies the many factors which result in development.
@@KryyssTV yes, it's more complicated, but people who as children don't have at least one nurturing person to connect with are clearly at a serious disadvantage regarding quality of life. While Jedi aren't supposed to form attachments, it really is difficult for humanoids not to give minors in their care affection, and regarding the way Barriss Offee and her relationship with her Master is portrayed, this is the best explanation based on psychology I have seen. That's also why I said 'difficult to interact [in a way] that is perceived [as positive]' and not 'impossible to interact positively' to reflect societal biases and alternative coping methods (which Barriss Offee didn't use)
@@nicolaiveliki1409 Nurturing and effection are two very different things though. Baris wouldn't be disadvantaged by being raised without hugs and kisses, her personality would certainly be shaped by that but to say someone is emotionally stunted because they aren't affectionate is really a disservice to people as we're expected to value many different kinds of people with varied personalities. To illustrate, would you say a child that is hugged and kissed frequently but given no discipline will be more or less likely to develop antisocial disorders? You would likely say that a child needs both affection and discipline which clearly shows a distinction between nurture and affection. I would argue from personal experience that someone who grows up in an unaffectionate family but with discipline may suffer social anxiety, but that environment would not lead to them being emotionally stunted or prone to mental disorders.
@@JahanMisra Yes, I am. The fact is though that I recognise the limitations of personal experience but some revere psychology as some superior knowledge and become quite offended when you point out the fact it is no better than conjecture, prone to cultural and personal bias and therefore no better than opinions. So to be more accurate, I criticise those who give psychology undeserved faith and prestige.
Although the initial prequels had their issues, it did showcase how not every aspect of the Jedi order was perfection...far from it, there were fundamental flaws in their ideology, particular during the time prior and during the clone wars. While some jedi at that time were suspicious yet skeptical of something being "off" with the force and events leading towards the clone wars, others that had a deeper spiritual contention to it, knew there were some dark presence that was taking place behind all the events during that time...Yoda, Qui Gon, Ashoka, and the jedi in question for this vid, Barris. This reveal of her and her actions later on in the Clone Wars series really caught my attention. Showing how what seemed to be "good" for the jedi, was in fact unbalanced in many ways. I feel that her actions, and her speech during her trial showed exactly why the strength of the ideology of the jedi order at the time, was also it's biggest weakness. And why they did not see the entire picture of the actual evil that was taking place, until it was too late. Don't get me wrong, Barris's actions, who she betrayed, killed and framed are in no means a justification to her pivotal warning to the order, it did show that even with all that was happening, many jedi were still blinded by their own traditional thinking that they didn't see the actual threat in front of them...until...well you know. Glad to see Generation tech divulge in this character.
There’s nothing wrong with celebrating and remembering loved ones who have passed on. But, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t uhh…check to see if they were alive or not. What if they were injured and needed urgent medical treatment? And if they were dead, it would only be right to uncover their bodies.
As a parallel to your argument about PTSD, the very first Mobile Suit Gundam depicts teenage protagonist Amuro Ray as clearly suffering from PTSD at one point in the series.
Speaking of Bariss, there is this great quote about her in the Ahsoka novel: Her criticisms of the Jedi were valid, but the way she went about addressing them was not.
Just like with anakin
@@afatcatfromsweden analin is special case 😆
@@afatcatfromsweden and Dooku before her
@@murderouskitten2577 learn to spell its Anakin dude
@@johnharrington6958 well , it is not like he is important :D
It's interesting the contrast between Barris and Ahsoka: while Barriss is the result of a blind commitment to the Jedi's philosophy, Ahsoka is the result of the "thinking out of the box" approach that started with Dooku.
It's pretty ironic when you think about how one of the Clone War's major villain's mindset ended up making one of the best and heroic jedi other there.
@@kaijuguy19 Dooku iirc was never really full "dark side". Not to the degree someone like Palpatine or Maul was. He had very rational and practical reasons for leaving the order, and his motivation for leading the separatists was well founded and reasonable. He sort of just "slipped" down the dark road. Palpatine may have seduced him, but to do so he had to play off of his critical thinking and his rational, rather than his emotions.
The man was not wrong about really anything. Everything he said to Obi Wan when he captured him, and most of his plans, took into account exactly what eventually came to pass. He, like most Sith, just planned to come out on top. And like most Sith, he didn't.
Completely true. Anakin, as the master of Ahsoka let her think freely and bend the rules as necessary, while Luminara's teaching was very rigid and dogmatic. It's even reflected by the way Barris introduced herself to Ahsoka and Anakin with that courtsy. They were like "What the heck is this formality?" It was so cringy, but that's what happens when you're being raised to be a perfectionist and you become full of suppressions in the process. No wonder she turned extreme, this happens to many people in real life as well who are in similar shoes.
You guys completely misunderstood the situation
Barriss is nowhere near a blind commitment. She is a perfect example, for how a jedi had to be, until she lost faith in a working jedi order. Barriss is questioning the jedis involvement in the war, is studying the past to not letting it become the future. A lot of comments are about how bad luminara trained barriss, how open minded anakin trained ahsoka, but in the end it was their downfall. You can argue about the way's of the jedi and their teachings. You can argue about the cruelty, taking parents their children away at an age, where they cannot remember them. Still, its a usefull tactic to prevent attachments. Anakin couldnt deal with his attachments. Its not his fault, he already had some before joining the order. Not the jedi philosophy brought them their downfall, rather them not commiting to it. Barriss has a lot in common with dooku and Qui-Gon about questioning where is the line between right and wrong. Obi-wan is more of a by the book guy, and he even is with anakin, atleast he is playing it in the public. He got a nine years old boy, missing his mother, dealing with his emotions. No other jedi had to deal with his padawan this way, so its more plausibe that obi-wan gets more attached to anakin than he would to some other padawan. Ahsoka gets more attached, because well, anakin deals with a lot attachments.
Padawan: [has emotions/differing beliefs]
The Jedi Order: and so we took that personally
Jedi Order: "Its Treason then"
I'd give you a like but... 66
@@B1SeriesBattleDroid Good looking out
Not what happened
Almost like they're a cult.
I couldn’t believe how fast her master gave up on her in the second battle of Geanosis . She was just like “ok well , they are dead , let’s go meditate. She also got shitty with Anakin for wanting to save them.
Ah yes. Because caring about someone and actually thinking well maybe they're not dead is overrated. And the planet Mirial. Cold and dry, just like Master Luminara.
I hate Luminara😡
@@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc It's simple. The Jedi are not supposed to feel. And that's the problem.
@@mattstorm360 Unfortunately for the Jedi you're right on that.
@@mattstorm360 You could NOT FEEL and still think, "Hey maybe they survived", but also: Wouldn't it be a valuable waste of assert to just throw away a skilled trainee without checking to see if we could rescue her?
She is actually a very interesting character, and her master was a terrible mentor that definitely did not help her situation. If she had a master like Obi Wan I actually do doubt she would have done the bombing
You are correct.
If she had a master like Obi-Wan she would have just marched on the Temple with clones, killed all the younglings inside, and strangled her pregnant wife.
I think her master, and Mace windu were an example of how bad the Jedi had become.
@@Gameguy-gk8lx even if it is a joke, u actually make a good point lmao. However I think the biggest thing that caused anakin to do that was joining the order so late in his childhood which caused him to have connection and experiences outside the order. Hence why Ahsoka didn't want to train baby yoda in the Mandalorian
@@Noah_Banyas same with Ki-Adi Mundi, although he is a little better at hiding it
@@Gameguy-gk8lx Ha! Damn
The story begins with Luminara praising her, rubbing in that She and her Padawan
go by the book like a good jedi unlike naughty little Ashoka and Anakin.
However when push comes to shove it was the black sheep Anakin rescuing them.
It must have hit her mentally like a sledgehammer, when she realised her master had
forsaken her, the only being that shoud have had her back did not squat a eyebrow
when she nearly died, and moved on as it was "the jedi way" not to form a attachment.
Realising she was no better than a clones or the droids, just expendable meat to the
corrupt senators, and ironically it was Skywalker and Tano that made her see reality.
I think the whole attack was because she envied Ashoka over Anakin.
Because for all intents and purposes he acted like a brother to Ashoka,
denying emotions does not mean you work trough them,
it simply eats you from the inside, thankfully most of us have grown into healthy families
but for those poor especially human souls kindapped by the baby snatchers this is not so.
Sidious wasn't wrong to call the younglings "victims of the jedi" even if he's no better at least he
is self aware, for the most part at least.
"Don't snitch on your master!" is another cherished tenant of the Jedi Order.
You two completely misunderstood things
@@joshuawillis602elaborate
Luminara was a very powerful jedi:
Proceeds to completely underestimate her enemy, loose the fight against a dark assassin and to not even try to save her padawan.
Her biggest weakness ... steam
in a sense luminaras whole cherictor can be summoned up as
luminara was a vary powerful jedi:
That was it, she had nothing else going for her because she represented all that made the jedi bad.
@@kevind3974 But, if you rewatch the 2nd assault on Geonosis, you will see, how surprised/stunned she was, as she saw Anakin remove all of the destroyed factory. Even though she probably knew, that Anakin was stronger than her she probably would at least know, that it should be possible for a mighty Jedi. So in my book, she cant be as strong, as she is portrayed in the video. Which is great btw.
@@seflyingfaultier5806 agreed
The Luminara from Tartakovsky's Clone Wars is the most competent version of the character.
The part that you point out about the younglings not having a parental connection, bring Yaddle to mind. She was actually one of the very few that nurtured the younglings. She treated many of them like her own children. Despite her and other Jedi, not being allowed to have children, or love connections in general. She was able to be very motherly, and I think has helped many of the children. Which if I'm correct Anakin was young and being trained before the death of Yaddle, and I'm think she may have been part of those who helped Anakin keep himself. Even after becoming Vader.
And she was pushed out of or left the council
@@GenerationTech I thought she died protecting the children. A bounty hunter threw a grenade, so she catches it, and uses a force shield around herself and the grenade to absorb the blast.
@@jamesgolden7317 yes that’s how she died
@@jamesgolden7317, that’s in Legends continuity. In canon she left the Jedi Order after sensing their downfall to go back to her home world.
There are theories that she is the mother of Grogu/Baby Yoda/the Child.
She’s going to be a playable character in, “LEGO Star Wars: the Skywalker Saga”. Which is the first time she’s made any appearance in a LEGO game.
Perhaps they plan on doing more with her character.
@@randomericthings7506 that's actually great. I'm glad she's not dead, and has more with the story. 💚 Thanks for the update on Yaddle. 😁
You know the worst part about her betrayal? She doesn’t even look remorseful about it being Ashoka as the scapegoat. Her beef with the order was one thing, but how do you do this to your own friend who saved your life twice? She doesn’t even look at Ashoka during and after the confession.
I think it does goes to show how utterly broken she was by both the Jedi Order and the Clone Wars as a whole that she pretty much no longer cared about even her own friend's safety anymore. If that doesn't show how utterly messed up the whole thing is I don't know what does.
@@kaijuguy19 I think it goes to show that the showrunners didn't give a shit about her character and only used her as a reason to get Ahsoka out of the Jedi Order.
I mean if they didn't care they would have killed her off by then.
@@ohmyoof3pizzaman205 this is actually supported by that they were going to do a scene of her execution but they cut it out, they then said that they did this as there have plans so there is evident that they are going with this concept
I mean she was eaten alive by her jealousy. Her Mother Figure treated her as completely disposable and barely of any true worth.
She learned that following the rules is worthless, and being a Rules Breaker can give you rewards.
She learned envy and saw her friend Ashoka get what she craved again and again and again...while she had to deal with unmet needs again and again. She was suffering inside and it broke her.
That shit really eats away at you. I actually lost a friend due to being in a bad place and continuing to be envious. Of not being able to contain my pain. It's AWFUL.
I don't excuse her...but I DO feel for her.
An that's on top of feeling the Evil/Dark Side stuff that was coming from the temple and who knows what else. Which certainly didn't help matters. I imagine that was also driving her insane. It's also possible she was picking up on traces of stuff with the clones, due to Order 66 too.
"until the baby discovers new things"
*shows baby on fire*
To a baby fire IS new
he he, fire
Baby's On Fire:Die Antwoort!
But this led to one question here: Should Barriss Offee be actually classified as fallen to the Dark Side? At first, I thought so. But now that my eyes are opened with the help from this channel, I think not. Like the members of the Jedi Council, she is blinded by the Dark Side. She merely just had a different reaction. If she was actually fallen to the Dark Side, she would have leave the Jedi Order and join Count Dooku already. Heck, she might even be willing to assist Darth Vader and his troops when they marched into the Jedi Temple when Order 66 is executed.
I’d say murdering innocent people and civilians and then proceeding to frame and attempt to murder your friend for it would be considered dark side.
When asked by anakin about ventresses lightsabers she said “i think they suit me” which proves she fell to the dark side
@@clone5189 I agree, but it wasn't a full fall to the dark side.
That's a good point. In both Legends and Canon not every force user who does horrible stuff is labeled to the dark side at least from what I've learned from SW lore so it wouldn't be out of the question to see Barriss fall into that catagory.
Honestly I thought that too in the beginning, but thinking back to some of the events that were described in the video I have a different theory. So towards the end it was mentioned she had taken a form of drug that greatly enhanced her connection to the force, but brought her dangerously close to the dark side. Her trial was well after this event and when discussing this towards the beginning they had said she might have sensed some form of influence happening to the order. I'm wondering if when she was that close to the dark side she didn't pick up the innate sense to seek out such influences. Leading up to the bombing it's clear the order isn't what was, in fact many Jedi by this point would be feeling the stress and be as susceptible to darker influences just cause many have reached this point and have no real way to come to terms or be able to move past certain events. Some even doing such events with little to no regret or any feeling of responsibility. Thinking to all the other stuff she experienced up to that point and going through point with the drug she may have seen something was very wrong, and having no real way to stop it other then to make it more difficult for those people to commit more harm she was willing to take matters into her own hands. As stated it was against order to question the council and their rulings, so going to them or any master was not an option. Trying to involve members of the Senate would only complicate matters or backfire and rat her out, there by defeating the purpose altogether. When looking at things in that way the bombing and the attacks make slightly more sense. Trying to remove the weapons, equipment, and the people who were in her mind complicit. Now the biggest draw back I see to this notion and some of the video's is the fight between her and Anakin, the dialog they had during it seems more on the dark side aspect. But what if she herself knew she was tainted by it and accepted it, realizing that sometimes it was necessary to make a deal with devil to fight them as an equal. She knew what she was doing was wrong, but was convinced it was the only course of action to take since her other options were practically non-existent. And unlike some of her fellow Jedi she felt weight the of the responsibility of her actions and had been able to come to terms with them in order to stay the course. And consider her people's culture and believes this does have more of a consideration if her own master also instilled those very believes during Barriss's training. In which case I don't see why she wouldn't have since the Jedi gave special treatment to Mirialans for them to train their own and maintain their customs. That could allow her follow her own path that didn't let her fall into the dark side, but embrace and accept that it was part of her nature and that it proved to be a powerful tool when employed properly.
Did she have a point, yes. But her point was instantly rendered not credible the second she resorted to terrorism.
"The Jedi are corrupt, let me prove my point by bombing the Jedi Council killing innocent Jedi, clones and civilians alike."
Hmmm, something ain't right here.
She just creating attention with a serious event even if it was not justifiable.
Pretty realistic, if you ask me.
@@nobleman9393 which is exactly why it's futile. I mean, how often do we take terrorists' messages seriously, even when they are the right ones?
@@cheekibreeki904 we only take them as serious if they actually come out victorious. Remember this the original founders of the US were terrorists in the eyes of the British Empire. Ultimately its whether if they win or not that when we take their message serious or not. Not some Morale high ground
I disagree they're points are credible or not credible not because of her choice to do violence it ultimately come to whether she was victorious or not that. Remember this the original founders of the US were terrorists in the eyes of the British Empire. Ultimately its whether if they win or not gives the credibility of a point or cause, Not some Morale high ground
One thing I like about Barriss is that during her confession she specifically said “we”
Not for one second did she try to argue that she was innocent in all this, nor did she say that she had no choice or any other bullshit that villains usually say. She fully acknowledges that her actions are fucked up and that’s the problem
She knows that she’s not any better than the people she’s grown to despise. She’s entirely self aware and she just doesn’t care because life just hit her exactly that hard
That's actually an excellent detail. If they'd actually bothered to put in the work to develop her, Barriss would have been the best character in the entire Clone Wars series. They did her dirty because they couldn't be bothered to give her a character arc before tossing her away.
Barriss Offee is a good example of "Some monsters are not born, they were created."
Hardly. All that time blaming the Jedi could easily be explained as a misunderstanding
“I hate how the Jedi have become war mongers and murderers. That’s why I’ve decided to re-embrace my pacifist Jedi teachings by bombing a hangar full of civilians.”
I mean it was about far more than that.
There were a few big points here:
#1 She learned that her mother figure saw her as someone that would abandon her and gave zero fucks about her because "Emotions and attachments bad"
#2 Her entire worldview was also shattered that day. She learned that following The Rules was stupid and dumb. That it just got you FUCKED!
#3 Her continued envy with her friend Ashoka. Seeing what the other girl ahd over an over....while she thought and felt that she had little other choice. She couldn't get her needs met. An she couldn't exactly go around talking about her feelings of envy either. So it ate away at her until her pain overcame her.
#4 Her being so intuitive I think the WRONGNESS of the Jedi Temple didn't help. Since that was SUPPOSED to be her Safe Space, but it wasn't safe at all. Which just really degraded her mental health more.
#5 How was she taught to solve problems in this new age of war? VIOLENCE!
So I am sure that's what she thought was best. Even better if she could inflict pain upon Ashoka who she grew to hate.
@@TheAyanamiRei Bariss didn't hate Ahsoka. She loved Ahsoka (not like that...well, maybe, but that's not what I mean) and she wanted Ahsoka to see the Jedi the way she did. It's fucked up, but that's hardly surprising. She's just another victim of Yoda's god complex.
Meanwhile the jedi were just killing battle droids to protect people from separatist occupation... so bariss kills innocents
@@SquirrelASMR Tell that to the Umbarans.
She sacrificed herself with hope that jedis will understand what this war makes them. She used her own as an example, and some jedis understood her sacrifice
After her arrest in the Clone Wars, Dave Filoni decided to keep her alive because he felt like she had potential for future stories. I wonder what that means....
Becomes Inquisitor.
@@FlymanMS That would be exactly the opposite of her character after going rogue, though. She's fighting against the Jedi's corruption and views them as being taken over by the Dark Side, why would she join the Sith?
Disclaimer: Barriss is NOT the Seventh Sister from Rebels.
Bad batch maybe?
@Amritansh Mishra Filoni has said so, can remember where.
If Jedi had people to talk to half the dark side users wouldn’t exist
Yep
Or taught people how to control the dark side. Or actually teach them to handle things like emotions. And if the Jedi let people have relationships and kids, them no dead Padme and all that.
@@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc that's kinda the jedi's biggest flaw they are stubborn and holding on to outdated practices
@@loafofbread5251 True.
Indeed. If the Jedi Order didn't invest so much time, energy and people into the Galaxy's politics and instead kept to themselves is the only justifiable way for this "Abandon all attachments" mentality they have.
Regardless of how one is raised, anyone that puts themselves in the boots of a public servant like a police officer, doctor, firefighter, to soldiers, generals and politicians, you're always gonna end-up developing attachments towards something/someone in the world around you.
The Jedi Order's one size fits all policies and rules for its members during the Clone Wars Era in my opinion did more damage to their members then they protected them.
If people like Baris or Anakin had the knowledge that they could express their problems, fears and concerns to their piers without the nagging feeling that they'd get punished or excommunicated from the Order for going against certain rules that are in my opinion are impossible to follow in their positions, then their downfalls would've been far easier to avoid and prevent.
Honestly, I couldn't agree more. Much of the problems the Jedi faced when one of their own went off the rails can be pretty much summed up by similar videos. This is never to say those who go bad are fully innocent, but that they've not had the support to keep their heads on straight. There's no sense from the Jedi that they understand psychological needs beyond getting someone to the point of being able to meditate and then trusting that the Force will heal their minds.
That is very inaccurate
@@joshuawillis602 Elaborate?
Its amazing how the person responsible for the downfall of the order was able to raise a jedi greater than the order. Not in power or strength, but in character and resolve. That as jedi yes there is the warrior and monk aspect, but at the core of both is humanity.
A possible balance anakin brought was balance to the personal jedi. That luke and those in his order recognized that they needed to have attachments and families rather than rigid rules.
Greater Jedi than the order? That’s extremely debatable.
One of my biggest problems was the Jedis' half baked response to Barris's attack. They kicked Ahsoka out, the GAR wanted to execute Ahsoka and threw responsibility away from themselves and portrayed it as her "great trial," however, they let Barris back onto the field....
I do not believe this is true. I think that is old canon. She was sent into custody which in turn saved her life from dying on Felucia like she did in Legends. Order 66 saved her life because Ki-Adi-Mundi wanted to kill Quinlan Vos for betrayal and I would guess Bariss would also be on that list.
@@tevinjcampbell, I believe you're right, but it was(at least I believe so) at some point Cannon.
Dude. That was probably INTENTIONAL! Imagine how freaking pissed Anakin would be knowing that Barriss got off scott free and eventually became a knight, when Ashoka was going to be executed.
You can bet your ass Palpatine had a hand in it and probably worked behind the scenes to get her pardoned from the courts.
As for the Jedi, I really think she must have realised how much she fucked up by the end. I don't think she originally intended for things to spiral into insanity like it did. The Jedi even let Revan back into the order, so they're all about forgiveness as long as you actually learned your lesson.
@@The_Moe_Szyslak_Exp_feat_Homer from the legends timeline Barriss knighthood came before the bombing, but have her knighthood reinstated Anakin might also get angry from that.
@@TheGoodOne1998
How do you know the knighthood was before the bombing? I'm curius, cab you give me a timeline?
Are you refering to the ending of Medstar 2? The book said that when she overcame her addiction to the Bota drug, she saw that as passing her knight trials.
But that's just what SHE thought. The Council might not have agreed willy-nilly just because she felt ready.
From my understanding, all we know is she had her own Padawan at the very end of the war, but that could have easily happened after the bombing.
in the new comics, during a battle in the later years in the war, Barriss expressed her disillusion with the Order while watching native sacred sites desecrated by both sides either getting caught in a crossfire, or for the sake of a battle plan.
Wait, which comics? Do you mean the old one that was released just before the finale of Season 5?
@@LordVader1094 I think it's relatively recent. Based on The Clone Wars show.
The comic was called Paradise Lost. The theme of the story suggests that it was her guilt about all the civilian and clone casualties in the war that lead her to the dark side.
Here's a puzzler: Who trains a Mirialan if there happens not to be an available Mirialan Jedi Knight or Master around to do so? Is that Padawan simply left twisting in the metaphorical wind? Or is the tradition not so rigid as to allow for another species to train the Padawan, at least until a Mirialan Jedi was freed up to take over the responsibility?
Well to be clear it’s a tradition not all mirialans followed this
I'd assume the Force provides one
I reckon if there wasnt another Mirialan available, the padawan could go to any other master. It only becomes an issue if there is another full grown Mirialan available to squeal about the breach of tradition. So pretty much until Luminara came along I doubt it was a problem, but Luminara is such a stick in the mud she probably ranted until they gave her Barris.
@@Cryogenius333 there is also the fact that Coruscant isn't the only planet with a Jedi Temple and a Jedi Council. That's why Yoda's Council was called the Jedi *High* Council. If there was no Mirialan Jedi Master for the Mirialan Jedi Padawan in one Temple, there's a chance that there could've been in another.
She is still guilty, and lucid, in spite of any reasons she may have had driving her. She is still culpable, and responsible for her actions.
While I agree with you, that doesn't make her any less of a tragic victim. Her guilt in the bombing and framing attempt does not in any way absolve the Jedi order's guilt in their abuse and neglect of her and her issues.
@@paireon3419 this assumes the Jedi knew she had a problem.
@@neoblakkrstal9865 Well the Jedi did send children to war. Did the Jedi not think that the children would end up developing psychological problems when they got older?
@@liamyuki2316 You are placing our culture onto that of the Jedi. Remember, the Jedi believed that The Force brings peace. It was probably thought that those endowed with the ability to use The Force would be able to handle it. Was it foolish? Yes. Did they ignore possible consequences? Yes. Am i excusing such behavior? No. I have always believed that The Jedi were just as bad as the Sith. Opposite Extreme and all that. But this in no way excuses Evil behavior on the part of Barriss. She is still responsible for her own actions.
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff The Force is neither light, nor dark
Master, nor slave
But a balance between extremes
This particular episode if very profound and very well communicated. Your take on the faults of the Jedi are true and plentiful. Yoda finally realizes this at the end of his life and sadly this was the greatest lesson of all.
Arrogance is blinding.
Her assessment of the Jedi and republic was correct her actions where were she went wrong
Same could have been said of Pong Krell. A full fledged Jedi Master going completely off the reservation as a malcontent.
@@Cryogenius333 Same with dooku, Both of them said they had premonitions of the jedi order being destroyed and knew that the only way to survive was to get out asap
Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) is no joke. My wife and I learned about it in our foster parent classes. I never considered it as part of the Jedi. Interesting.
Damn these comments make me sad seeing everyone ripping on Luminara because her character got turned into stone cold asshole in TCW compared to her previous warm mentor relationship with Barriss in the EU :(
I feel the same way! Luminara rocked in the Expanded Universe! It really is a shame that the new cannon turned her into this!
She’s not stone cold though. You’re completely misunderstanding her
The whole lack of a healthy parental figure was basically Anakin's undoing too. Qui-gon in the duel for Anakin's fate (yes that was a deliberate reference), and he was the one who could have brought him a greater sense of security and stability. Obi-Wan was a "company man" to the Council and therefore wasn't equipped to meet his padawan's psychological needs growing up, causing him to find a fatherly refuge in Palpatine wbo only manipulated and exacerbated his issues until they boiled over. One wonders why Anakin butted heads with Obi-Wan under his tutelage as much as he did, only for them to develop a more full and meaningful relationship when Anakin was no longer a subordinate, but it makes a whole lot of sense when you realize that Anakin was basically being bossed around by his insecure older brother who did the best he could, but didn't know wbat to do with him half the time. Siblings, literal or figurative, don't make for the best parental figures because it's just not the same. It can work, but it's pretty hard to compensate for the lack of a healthy parental bond even with the necessary emotional resources to do the best they can, which Obi-Wan clearly didn't have (which wasn't entirely his fault). Anakin called him a father figure in AOTC simply because he was projecting his own needs onto him, and Obi-Wan simply didn't know how to be what he needed, causing resentment in Anakin for not measuring up. The reason Anakin and Obi-Wan developed a strong friendship and brotherhood is because they actually cared about each other in spite of it all. They just didn't know how to relate to each other until they were the brotherly equals they were always meant to be. While that was great, Palpatine became the surrogate father figure who took advantagr of his psychological needs that Obi-Wan couldn't meet. Qui-gon dying was the one thing that made the rest of the saga possible. With a master who had the balance to both guide and nurture him as a father figure (because he was wise enough to know how to play fast and loose with the Council's inadequate code and knew when it fell short of their ultimate purpose as Jedi) and a brotherly and friendly bond with Obi-Wan, Anakin would have both psychological needs provided for by the right people in their proper place after leaving home. Palpatine would either have a much harder time manipulating him, and that's assuming he would have even had an opening at all. In a lot of ways, in spite of their clear differences in personality, both Bariss and Anakin lost it for a lot of the same core reasons. Ashoka even left for a lot of the same reasons. Ashoka harbored the same complaints Bariss and Anakin did as well, but she had the strength to leave that unhealthy environment and to better herself in contrast to her best friend and her master because I think Anakin was for Ashoka what Anakin never really got, the right person at the right time in the right relational fit. He provided Ashoka with an emotionally safe and constructive environment for her to grow and knew when and how to give her enough leash to think for herself and gradually assert her autonomy as she grew and matured. She turned out alright because Anakin was the kind of person she needed. Plo Koon seemed to have filled more of that parental role (it seemed unique that Plo found her as a child and that they remained as close as they did). That left Anakin to be an older sibling who could both show her the ropes and be a down-to-earth friend and companion. I think the brilliance of both George Lucas and Dave Filoni is that they crafted their respectove stories in a way that these plot lines did such a good job expounding on the familial angle of that all-encompassing theme of the importance of love.
Casually referring to Ki Adi Mundi as "Potato Head" is the best thing I'll hear all day.
Wasn’t it said in Swotor that the Rakatans experimented with humans to create perfect slaves. Zabraks as muscles and Twi‘leks for fun times with a lightsaber
I don’t think it was the rakatans that did that but another species that made humans, zabraks and twi’leks all from one species
@@l.0781 I looked it up it’s said that Rakata created them but their are contradictions so it’s really vague
@@ontasbulent5709 It was the Rakatans. You are right
@@generalkenobi4683 the contradiction is that it’s said the Rakata created them during the decline of there empire but there are Twi‘lek Jedi on Tython during the height of their empire but most likely like usually in the EU the writers kind forgot the established lore
"And discover new things" shows toy child on fire
barriss offee=barista coffee=coffee barista. they even colored her mocha-ish and put coffee beans on her cheeks.
Lol this.
How could we have missed this?
3:03 Allen, he is _not_ called Potato Head!
He’s called _Aubergine_ Head!
He’s not purple tho
@@GenerationTech point made 😂
@@GenerationTech is he yellow or beige?
I call him dick head
Yam head 😂
I think you hit the nail on the head with your video on Barriss and I know you've shared rightful criticism of the Jedi Order a lot more indepth on other videos and you only sumerised that here and Barriss's story but I feel like your whole video could have been a lot more indepth as a whole. You also neglected to mention that she was a trained Jedi Healer and operated on battle injured clones and others. She was an active member of the war for years and combine that knowledge and your video and her youth and I'd say she was suffering from PTSD but didn't know how to handle it. Her master being on the Jedi High Council and the expectations that came with being a Padawan of said person probably didn't help her either. She was also probably suffering from nightmares, insomnia, flashbacks, guilt, and trouble connecting with people. I've always said she was probably suffering PTSD and though I don't think that the Jedi or the Sith using terms like 'light side' and 'dark side' of the force were entirely accurate, I do think that one of PTSD's effects was bothering her. A lot of people with PTSD try to avoid reminders of their trauma and have trouble responding emotionally to others. Kick in the fact that the Jedi were about no emotion; which is BS and you have a person who purely cracked. If you consider that she may have thought that killing her friend and trying to get Ahsoka killed may have even been a blessing for them and releasing them from the pain of the war and death. I don't think she fell to the dark side per se, rather she went looking for answers and used the dark side. The Jedi weren't helping her and told her to not feel anything so she did but she couldn't shake that the whole situation was wrong so she went looking else were. She was trapped in her mind and didn't know what to do. Like all people in a high stress situation, they have a breaking point. That's why militaries send people on leave. The Jedi never seemed to get that fact and in the end Barriss snapped like any normal perosn would have. It just didn't end well for her and a lot of other people.
I have to wonder, what would have changed if Barris and Ahsoka had died at the second battle of Geonosis?
Rebels and the Mandalorian would have been a lot different
In a very short time she had been emotionally and mentally manipulated and twisted. She would have made either a very good mentor or an excellent villain. So familiar but also tragic.
Why is Allen so damn easy to agree with. He seems sincere but also objective when he talks about things in the world or star wars.
Barriss O’ffee, trained in the IRA
Based barris
Commander O’ffee what’s all that fertilizer for
Based Barriss.
I think it would be interesting to see Barris Offee as a inquisitor
Boofire 191 did that actually. in fan fic called - what if starkiller survived
She would probably be slaughtered by vader since she made ahsoka leave the order and betrayed her
Pretty sure Generation tech did a old video on that.
What kind of inquisitor are we talking about if it is not the imperial inquisition of star wars then it can only be one thing... WARHAMMER EXTERMINATUS INQUISTORIUM BABYYYYY... joking it would be the Spanish Inquisition
@@rheinbewachen1211 I have it on good authority no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
The Jedi remind me of the Templars, formidable but eventually brought down by their own fanatical idealologies
Alan, one question I’ve always had was why Jedi retained their last names if clinging to one’s past was so discouraged? Yoda doesn’t have a surname (at least to my knowledge), but even the traditionalist and conservative Mace Windu continues to keep the family name. It just doesn’t seem fitting for an organization like the Jedi Order.
This is by far my favorite video you guys have come out with. I love the insight into the psychology of it all
What do you expect when your master is a sociopath?
Psychological factors are something rarely looked into in Star Wars, it's awesome that you did.
I enjoyed this video. I found the psychological assessment very informative and I agree that it's lazy to think that she just fell to the dark side. More likely she saw something wrong with the Jedi order and because of her emotional detachments she felt it was her duty to force others to look at the Jedi Order the way she did, albeit in a more extreme way. But luckily for us Ahsoka who did form attachments was able to walk away instead of trying to enact change at the level that Barriss Offee did. .
"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
-Barista Coffee, probably.
We know she was welcomed back to active surety in Legends as she died in the field during Order 66. Would what argument was used for her to not only remain in the Order but allowed out in the field. I believe she was highly skilled at Force healing but Council was willing to let Ashoka die so would love to hear the argument that spared Barriss life.....at least for a few months
Alan, I think this was one of your best videos. I really liked the psychological theories and effects you mentioned as well as the real world correlations. I myself am a war veteran, medically retired police officer, and a student of criminal justice, philosophy, and psychology. This video and the issues you mentioned really resonated with me. Great job and good luck to your wife on pursuing her degree!
Barriss is one of my favorite characters in Star Wars. Even when she went mad with the problem of having the Jedi order as it should be and what she believed the Jedi order to be and what it was in reality. And how blind the council was in all that has happened. All the way to actually using slave soldiers to fight the war .. because .. honestly that is what the clones have been.
She must have had a massive case of PTSD and most likely no one to talk to besides other radicals (since I assume that both of her helpers have been on it from the start and ready to besically becoming suicide bombers. One actually doing the bombing and the other in order to set the other part of the plan into motion). The only person she could possibly speak to would have been Ahsoka. And I guess she could not really do this since Ahsoka must have looked like the perfect Jedi to her who still went along with the war without second-guessing it. And don't forget that she was on Umbara too and that was one horrid set of fighting and it broke another Jedi as well. I would think that both her and Krell have seen the same thing coming. But while Krell decided to join what was comming, she decided to try to prevent it (sadly, she might have been already too damaged to think that anything but the most drastic method would have any chance of success).
So I guess that Barris wanted to both force the Jedi order to look at itself in a mirror and to make Ahsoka understand what is going on. The problem was, that while no sane person could ever believe that Ahsoka did it, the Jedi council actually did. And just like Luminara abondoned Barriss under the factory, the council abondined Ahsoka and wasn't that willing to actually conduct a proper investigation. Palpatine must have been twitching with glee and thinking that he could not have orchestrated this better.
The Jedi council being told right into their faces what they are and shown their own failure by Barriss and what become of her, and yet, no one of them even remotely understanding it. All the great masters of the order unable or unwilling to face the truth. All of them so stuck up in the war that none of them even daring to think about what they are actually doing. With people like Windu acting like a uncompromising warmonger and Yoda seemingly so eager to understand the big picture that he lost sight of what is going on right in front of him.
I would also never accept the idea that Barriss actually has fallen to the dark side. I think even with what she has done, she would never stop loving the Jedi order and the ideals it stands for in her mind. The ideal that besically could not hold up in reality and broke her in the end. She did all that she did .. a very wrong idea on how to do it .. to save the order from itself and to make it stop being a part in the war but to get back to being keeprs of peace. Becoming a force for the dark side would be absolutely against every idea that has driven her to what she has done (in my reading of the situation at least).
Barriss is a wonderfully tragic character that deserves much more attention and more stories to be told about her.
Barriss is one of the deepest Characters in all of Star Wars...
I don't agree on what she did, but she doesn't seem to be a person with bad intentions...
Hope so much we get to see her again and she somehow survived...
I'm kinda sure Ahsoka could forgive her
@@Andrewbaysura1 I thnk that forming a more Humane Jedi order would not really solve the problems. As I see it, both the Jadi and the Sith are two sides of the same coin and both are the logical extreme of each side: absolute selflessness vs. absolue selfishness.
As long as both exist, the war will continue as there is no compromise possible on each side. And each time someone starts building up a temple, it will inevitebly end with the same blindness and selfasurence that lead to the disaster of the Clone Wars.
After all, there can be no balance if you just follow one side of the teachings and the only way to prevent such things from happening is to actually look for balance in the middle of things. So maybe the Galaxy would then finally see some .. more or less .. lasting peace. Or rather .. peace from space wizards battleing it out between each other. And I would claim that even then there would be room for many good stories.
Sadly however Star Wars is locked in the easy way of good vs. bad and has not taken the route of really looking into its own philosophy and if there might be some more thought provoking stories lurking beneth the surface.
Agree i dont See her as a Inquisitor because she has good ideolegies. Pretty sure that in tales of the ... she will come Back to the light
So given all this is there any wonder why uncle Palpatine had an easy time converting padawans to the dark side & becoming inquisitors PS still waiting on my ewok roast.
When I was a kid, I always called her "Barris Coffee"
I really hope they bring her back, she has potential to be as well written as Ahsoka
Barriss Offee was ahead of her time. She saw the corruption of the Jedi Order.
She was a murderer who didn’t even just kill Jedi. Civilians too for no damn reason
Did she have a point, yes. But her point was instantly rendered not credible the second she resorted to terrorism.
"The Jedi are corrupt, let me prove my point by bombing the Jedi Council killing innocent Jedi, clones and civilians alike."
Hmmm, something ain't right here.
“All the Jedi Council believes in is violence!”
*says this after murdering innocent people and then attempting to frame and murder your friend for it*
But yes she saw the corruption. As did Dooku before her. And Anakin after. Look where it led them.
Exactly. If she spoke out her mind, despite consequences, or just left the order in protest, I could consider her one of the wisest Jedi of era
Yeah, just like the Joker in The Dark Knight
*I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve.*
I think this was a very well thought-out discussion on Barriss's motivations. Her entire storyline reminds me of some terrifying real-world examples of soldiers returning from overseas so messed up from PTSD they don't even resemble the people they used to be.
That burning baby was so unexpected 😜 it caught me so off guard 😂
I feel the blame falls more on her master than the order…a detached (even for the Jedi) philosopher who exposed her to the worst of the war and would only respond with a dogmatic this is the right way don’t question it surely didn’t help Barris properly process what she was going thru
I just watched Bariss' fight with Anakin yesterday.
11:20 -11:44 That's a good point, in fact at the beginning of the clone wars film just before meeting Ahsoka, Anakin literally said to Obi-Wan "Do you really think it's a good idea to bring a Padawan learner into all of this?"
Their failure was an - haha - em *BARRISS* ment :)
I do hate how almost every psychological of emotional problem with Jedi gets boiled down to the “Light Side/Dark Side” dichotomy in much of franchise. The Jedi way, at least as we saw in the prequel era, is so flawed that it isn’t hard to realize why so many of them did actually go Dark when they faced external problems and got so little emotional support.
"Potato Head" he says. Classic!
If I remember correctly, Barris' original fate was to be knighted and then die during Order 66 on Felucia. She was there I think to aid Aayla Secura or something like that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's one of the VERY few criticisms I had about The Clone Wars S5; they altered her fate. I really liked Barriss and thought she deserved to be knighted, even if it meant she'd die. Alas......
Ashoka brought up the point that as Jedi they’re taught to be compassionate, yet attachment is forbidden
If you see someone in trouble you help them. But you don’t fall in love with them. That’s the difference
I hate that Jedi can only sense each other when the plot needs it to happen
She was an awesome character in the medstar books.
“A lot of the blame lies in the Jedi Oders” probably the best split second mix up of words I’ve ever heard
Star wars the clone wars is fantastic! I loved her story arc, it was so interesting.
Barris is a really interesting character and I would love to see her return in the upcoming ahsoka series
That's MR. Po-Ta-To Head, to you.
This makes a lot of sense to me it brings her character into Focus, never thought of the upbringing and training part of the padawans
That and the fact that her own master gave her up for dead on the spot didn't help matters either.
@@kaijuguy19 people take that scene completely out of context
So you are saying Anakin was showing the younglings mercy?
Not really, last I checked death isn’t particularly good for a child’s health
I like those stretched letter signs between the sections of the video. It's so 80s!
She can’t be deemed as justified considering she framed Ashoka, who we can all agree isn’t the problem with the Jedi order
Ahsoka is a problem with the Jedi Order. Ahsoka destroyed an entire ancient 1,000 year old temple during a battle she and Barriss were fighting, which caused her too....
Oh right, we're talking about canon.... Ahsoka 100% good, Barriss very bad!
Barriss Offee was 1000% better and more fleshed in legends, AND it showed that other Jedi have dark sides to, like Ahsoka.
@@Eldoradoll7 she didn’t destroy it! The droids did
Common psychology doesn't always apply to jedi since they have the force, and the force connects them to the entire galaxy, affecting the way they psychologically develop.
I think Barriss had other problems too, she probably started turning to the dark side due to the influence of the war around her, and in the process she probably went through the veil of the emperor. Palpatine blinded actively the perception of the jedi but dark force users were able to feel through that barrier, better or worse. Most of the jedi that felt the other side of that veil turned to the dark side, Krell being another example. They got exposed to the huge presence of Palpatine, they felt how the jedi would fall, and SPECIALLY noticed their mistakes.
I love it. “I’m gonna show it’s wrong for the Jedi to kill, by killing people!”
The fact Barris was made a Jedi Knight and not Ahsoka show's how biased and stupid the council was. Windu and Mundi probably hated her for being Anakin's padawan, smh.
Humanity first, thats why, keep up the great work Allen! 1st btw
Good watch. I run Star Wars tabletop games, and have one set in the Dark Times, and I've been considering including Offee in an adventure. Mostly as a cameo, and possibly as an adversary.
The character's flip from Jedi to Terrorist was interesting, and seeing someone else try and break down the characters motivations and reasons is great for me to bounce ideas off of.
After all, she was right about the Jedi Order of her era.
*Casually sneaks Mike Tyson in...*
So basically
A jedi mind is like an empty fortress surrounded by a huge wall
That wall will keep everyone out
But if anything happens and a breach starts, there isnt a single soldier in there to stop the enemy from taking over
The jedi has a thousand tricks to not feel emotions, but when they finally feel them, thats when they become confused and the sith are born
"Victims, aren't we all?"
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff It's a Brandon Lee quote.
What I don't get is why frame her best friend of all people? I get she hated the counsel, but I thought she had a bond with her. Ahsoka would have died if her plan was accomplished!
If Jedi were allowed to marry and love people in general, everything after episode 1 wouldn't have happened
Anakin: "My mother? Oh, Master Windu secured some funds to free her about three months after I joined. Master Obi-wan set her up doing clerical work on one of the core worlds. We speak every other week. I can more readily clear my mind and separate myself from attachment just knowing my only family is safe."
Padme: "Huh. Neat."
i always appreciate the breakdowns in any content through psychological and mental health explanation
It’s a shame we couldn’t see luke’s Jedi order in canon.
It's a shame Disney threw away legends! Fk this new "canon".
Very insightful and very interesting analysis of the psyche of a character we haven’t had much to learn about. Brings a lot of depth and contemplation to her character arc in the Clone Wars.
Her motivations for betrayal were so stupid.
Horrendous writing. Just nonsense. They should have tried a tiny bit harder.
If she was making a statement, framing some random Jedi and killing randoms without any message or identified grievance (until she actually managed to get captured) doesn't match her ideals or rationale
Its just bad writing. Plain and simple.
People who attack people or blow something up to make a point don't just hide and do nothing. They use that fear as motivation against continuing that course of action by their victims. She didn't do this.
She just killed someone, framed a friend who doesn't have anything to do with her grievence really and then planted a bomb.
And her grievence was that the jedi believed in "violence"
Bad writing. If she were trying to protect some particular group from the jedi (like maybe the war victims?) then she her bombing of innocents on corusaunt may have made sense.
But she didn't say this because the writing was bad.
It could have been revenge for the Jedi constantly putting her in danger including on Geonosis. She makes no mention of this.
She could also have just had a lust for the power of the dark side and she somehow believed that this killing would assist her on this path but she also makes NO MENTION of this.
Again. Stupid. There were plenty of reasons to commit general violence but not because she objects to the Jedi's general violence.
This could have been fixed with one line. For every win Star Wars seems to have there is an unfathomable fail in the writing right around the corner.
I thought the Rakadan Infinite Empire spread Selkath, not humans. Interesting
Cuz we all know how they did that (partially) with Anakin
The answer may be that she fell to the dark side, but the question that should be asked is how and why.
the jedi order never asks them the questions and if they do, it is only in the council
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She accuses the Jedi of only caring about violence but they are currently in a war that was started by the separatists. What exactly does she expect the Jedi to do? Just sit down and do nothing through the whole ordeal?
That's some real insight into the psychology of basically a child soldier, and why it's really difficult for them to interact with their environment in a way that is perceived as positive. Also, you're married to a developmental psychologist? Cool
The trouble with psychology is that it's invariably based upon cultural bias and limited by observation. That is why "experts" in behavioural sciences went from recommending primal scream therapy and actively encouraging the use of Valium for stress in the 80s and 90s but now "experts" say something very different. Years from now they'll say something different again. Psychology has many similarities with fashion with a cyclic pattern of old becoming new resulting in cars. Only recently I saw articles encouraging swearing as a means to relieve stress showing a return to 80s ideology.
To say that children need at least one person to form attachment is dismissing the fact we know people imitate their surroundings. Children especially learn a great deal from observation not just interaction. Imaginary friends can become as important to children as real people and we're all familiar with the idea of safety blankets or a soft toy becoming a source of comfort for children despite being inanimate. So no the idea that, as a rule, children don't development emotional maturity and social norms as a result of unaffectionate parents doesn't hold water and really oversimplifies the many factors which result in development.
@@KryyssTV yes, it's more complicated, but people who as children don't have at least one nurturing person to connect with are clearly at a serious disadvantage regarding quality of life. While Jedi aren't supposed to form attachments, it really is difficult for humanoids not to give minors in their care affection, and regarding the way Barriss Offee and her relationship with her Master is portrayed, this is the best explanation based on psychology I have seen. That's also why I said 'difficult to interact [in a way] that is perceived [as positive]' and not 'impossible to interact positively' to reflect societal biases and alternative coping methods (which Barriss Offee didn't use)
@@nicolaiveliki1409 Nurturing and effection are two very different things though. Baris wouldn't be disadvantaged by being raised without hugs and kisses, her personality would certainly be shaped by that but to say someone is emotionally stunted because they aren't affectionate is really a disservice to people as we're expected to value many different kinds of people with varied personalities.
To illustrate, would you say a child that is hugged and kissed frequently but given no discipline will be more or less likely to develop antisocial disorders? You would likely say that a child needs both affection and discipline which clearly shows a distinction between nurture and affection. I would argue from personal experience that someone who grows up in an unaffectionate family but with discipline may suffer social anxiety, but that environment would not lead to them being emotionally stunted or prone to mental disorders.
@@KryyssTV you criticized psychology for being limited by cultural bias and observation but you’re arguing from personal experience?
@@JahanMisra Yes, I am. The fact is though that I recognise the limitations of personal experience but some revere psychology as some superior knowledge and become quite offended when you point out the fact it is no better than conjecture, prone to cultural and personal bias and therefore no better than opinions. So to be more accurate, I criticise those who give psychology undeserved faith and prestige.
Although the initial prequels had their issues, it did showcase how not every aspect of the Jedi order was perfection...far from it, there were fundamental flaws in their ideology, particular during the time prior and during the clone wars. While some jedi at that time were suspicious yet skeptical of something being "off" with the force and events leading towards the clone wars, others that had a deeper spiritual contention to it, knew there were some dark presence that was taking place behind all the events during that time...Yoda, Qui Gon, Ashoka, and the jedi in question for this vid, Barris. This reveal of her and her actions later on in the Clone Wars series really caught my attention. Showing how what seemed to be "good" for the jedi, was in fact unbalanced in many ways. I feel that her actions, and her speech during her trial showed exactly why the strength of the ideology of the jedi order at the time, was also it's biggest weakness. And why they did not see the entire picture of the actual evil that was taking place, until it was too late. Don't get me wrong, Barris's actions, who she betrayed, killed and framed are in no means a justification to her pivotal warning to the order, it did show that even with all that was happening, many jedi were still blinded by their own traditional thinking that they didn't see the actual threat in front of them...until...well you know. Glad to see Generation tech divulge in this character.
We need to cancel the Jedi. I did not know they stole potato head from my local park.
There’s nothing wrong with celebrating and remembering loved ones who have passed on. But, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t uhh…check to see if they were alive or not. What if they were injured and needed urgent medical treatment? And if they were dead, it would only be right to uncover their bodies.
Barista Coffee
My spell check kept on correcting offee to coffee so I just went with it
Okay, I lost it when you referred to Ki-Adi Mundi as Potato Head. XD XD
who is this Mary Allen????
As a parallel to your argument about PTSD, the very first Mobile Suit Gundam depicts teenage protagonist Amuro Ray as clearly suffering from PTSD at one point in the series.