My 26er ti hardtail frame is 3.44 lbs. Complete bike with Maxxlite 310 race tires is around 21.5--22lbs. Maxxis icons will add about another 3/4lb. And the XTR 9100 pedals I recently ordered will add another 100 or so grams for a finished weight probably around 23 lbs. I love ti for its ride quality, look, and durability. If built right, it seems to be pretty much bombproof. Crazy trail with the sketchy drop-offs.
If you have the money for a Ti frame , yes it's worth it . Even my 1992 KONA Hei Hei rides great and is a blast to pedal , as I converted to a single speed using it mainly as an Urban adult BMX bike
Awesome review as usual! These are great bikes, did an xc race and my boy had a dual susp Stanton. Bike is really light, has a great feel and look great. Not my first pick for Trestle or Whistler but still an amazing all around bike for xc and light enduro riding.
I don’t understand people when they say they want to do a frame up build an offering. Essentially the same seems to be the most important stuff is the wheels for work and other components.
Dido, I’m 6’1” so right between L and XL. I think on a bike like this your better off sizing down. The geo on the bike definitely lends itself to a more playful, floaty riding style and I think a smaller frame size matches that. The advantage of sizing up will be more stability at high speed
I was surprised too! I’m sure that just like all materials, there is quite a bit of range between manufacturers. But that was my experience with this one!
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy stiffness is related to frame material but has more to do with tubing shape and size. Bigger tubes are stiffer and smaller tubes are more supple (but weaker). Likely this frame has some slightly larger tubes than is strictly necessary to make sure it feels solid and holds up under big corners, big landings and accelerations. Steel is typically made in smaller tube diameters as in larger tube diameters the tubes get very heavy unless given very thin walls. When given very thin walls they are more likely to dent, bend or crack. Titanium is lighter and so can be made in the larger tube sizes while still having decent wall thickness. With this said though titanium often is used in the same kind of tube diameters as steel and in these situations it gives a more supple ride than steel (at times too supple) as it is less stiff than steel for a given tube size. Aluminium is lighter and is again less stiff for a given tube size. Aluminium tubes typically have an even larger diameter than titanium with thicker walls once again. Unlike titanium though aluminium should not be used in smaller tube sizes as it has poor fatigue life. As it bends the metal grows more and more brittle until it snaps or cracks. Big tube sizes help stop this from happening. Titanium and steel have excellent fatigue life and so are well suited to skinnier, bendier tubes while aluminium frames often have short lifespans or are limited to light duty in smaller diameters (recent marin team seatstays for example where famously supple but also cracked frequently). Metal frames generally have quite low damping and so do not reduce high frequency vibrations (harsh feeling vibrations) in the same way that carbon can. There is some difference between the metals though and this can potentially be noticed when the bike system itself (tyres, bars, grips, seat) has low damping also. Steel has the least damping, followed by titanium, aluminium (!) and then magnesium. Recent frames by vaast in magnesium seem to be notably more damped and smooth in reviews. Summary: While material does impact ride quality and stiffness, tubing diameter is a much stronger influence and is more likely to tell you about how a bike will feel or ride. All frame materials can more or less be made to feel a certain way by altering tube shape, however the frame may be too heavy, or too fragile when used outside of the ideal range of tube shapes. It is here that material is important- in determining the range of tube shapes that are practical for durability and reasonable weight. Been loving the SS content recently- I'm a lifelong fixed gear rider and am about to build an SSMTB and start learning DJ :)
I love Ti, but it has a lot of flex. I'm a bigger person (6ft250lb) and the bottom bracket flexes too much when I'm cranking on my spacier/bigger older geo frames. Maybe on the hcht (more compact) geo, some of the good and bad is gone.
As an owner of all the various metal bikes, the answer is no in my opinion. Racers are on carbon and nobody else needs to worry about weight that much. Steel is so much easier to repair and rides every bit as well as titanium. Also, everyone I know who has a “forever bike” rides steel.
My answer is yes as I bought a KONA Hei Hei brand new in 1992 " saved my money as an 17 year old kid for a year bagging groceries as it wasn't cheap and beat the hell out of it right through my 20's . I still own this bike and ride it at least 3 times a week as It's been converted to a single speed now as I use it as an Urban adult BMX bike that I can open my front door to pedal around in the city and it kicks ass for that purpose . I personally don't know anyone who's owned the same bike as long as or has ridden it as much as me as the frame still looks like new with just a quick buff with a scotch brite pad " although I removed the decals years ago ". It's also fairly valuable for the age as most steel bikes that old are worth at best $200 complete unless they're something special . Also steel fatigues over time as Ti doesn't . Steel is awesome as well as my Fat Bike is a Surly Ice Cream Truck which is a tank 👍 as for me I love both .
Great first bike! You'll probably find it's limit soon, and then you can start upgrading the parts that are letting you down (likely the tires, brakes, forks, or drivetrain)
Potentially, though you’d lower the bottom bracket a good bit and could run into pedal strike issues. I currently have a 27.5” rear wheel and 29” fork/front wheel and am really enjoying that setup!
I have a Lynskey TI gravel bike. After 6 year and 20,000 km riding it is starting to creak. I'm currently looking at add a hardtail to my fleet; it's not buying another TI bike.
Its creaking because something is loose or needs to be greased . I've owned a Ti bike since 1992 and yes Ti in general will creek even if its new . My seatpost , stem and handlebars are all ti , my handlebars especially will creak as I have to retighten and grease the bolts and mounting brackets at times .
@@manchesterexplorer8519 you don't think the frame itself can creak? I changed the BB, greased the headset, switched out the wheels. Still creaking. The seat post is carbon and should not creak. I'm swapping out the pedals tomorrow...
#1 the riser bar is too tall Should be no more that 15% or better yet flat with a 9 back ....#2 It is way over forked unless your trying to run a Ti hard-tail BMX on steroids dirt jumper. #3 the fork is also a weight deficient by an addition 1lb + to the frame, when you could have been maximizing you frames weight benefit with a SID ultimate 120 #4 plus then add the twist lock would (yes or no) to make you more efficient in the climbs with it being a single speed. I have been riding nothing but Ti since the mid 90s I proudly currently have 4 in the barn (hard-tail, FS, gravel & road) just never got around to a Fat.
@ridingwithjoshandwendy I’m looking to buy a bike - I’d really like something identical to your single speed RSD (like you BMX is my background) but I’m in the UK and getting hold of one is really expensive. Would you say this was the closest thing to the RSD you’ve ridden?
Just temporarily, I sadly only have 2 bikes worth of parts, so when people send me frames to review I have to swap them. But the Middlechild will always be my favorite 👌 And I plan to build it back up soon!
My 26er ti hardtail frame is 3.44 lbs. Complete bike with Maxxlite 310 race tires is around 21.5--22lbs. Maxxis icons will add about another 3/4lb. And the XTR 9100 pedals I recently ordered will add another 100 or so grams for a finished weight probably around 23 lbs. I love ti for its ride quality, look, and durability. If built right, it seems to be pretty much bombproof. Crazy trail with the sketchy drop-offs.
Love it!! What frame are you on?
If you have the money for a Ti frame , yes it's worth it . Even my 1992 KONA Hei Hei rides great and is a blast to pedal , as I converted to a single speed using it mainly as an Urban adult BMX bike
Sounds like a fun bike!!
Keep making videos with beautiful bikes. I will continue to watch them!
Thank you man, I’ll do my best!!
Awesome review as usual! These are great bikes, did an xc race and my boy had a dual susp Stanton. Bike is really light, has a great feel and look great. Not my first pick for Trestle or Whistler but still an amazing all around bike for xc and light enduro riding.
@ 8:50 I'm able to read your shirt lol. Im 72 and hardtails hurt even on pavement.
$1300 is a crazy deal on a Ti frame!
It seriously is!!
That trail was adventurous to say the least!! The build you did on that switchback is sick!!
Thank you broski 👌 Lots of inspiration from your BMX haha!
Seat tube length is a deal breaker on Stanton bikes. 275 x 2.8 is a sweet spot for HTs and I can’t see why frame makers don’t all accommodate that.
Nice video ! I own a switchback too. What travel and offset are you using?
Nice, great bike!! I have it built up with a 150mm Lyrik which has a 46mm offset. What about you?
Don't forget the 2nd hand market. I got a Ti Sherpa, lightly used, basically like new, for 50% off the RRP.
Cool video. What size chainring are you running and who makes that chain tensioner? Thanks
Thank you!! I’m running a 30:18 gear ratio with the DMR STS chain tensioner
Could you compare the Ti with the steel version? Comfort depends so much more on the frame itself, instead on the material
I don’t understand people when they say they want to do a frame up build an offering. Essentially the same seems to be the most important stuff is the wheels for work and other components.
Looks awesome 🇬🇧 .... What size frame did you go for ?
I'm 6'1" and am on a large. I like my frames a bit on the small side and it fits perfect for me!
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy im 6'3" do you think it would be too small for me?
I’d love to know the full spec of your build on this if possible
I talk about the build more in this video:
ua-cam.com/video/1pCTbjCQVTI/v-deo.html
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy just watched this Thankyou
Looks great. Love to take for a spin. What's the whole bike weight. ? Thanks Josh
Thank you man! Complete bike weighs a hair under 27 lbs set up as a single speed
Thanks for the review. May I know what is the BB height ? It is not listed in their website.
It's 320mm. Here's a link to the full geo chart: rsdbikes.com/middlechild-v2-aluminum/
Looking at frame size on this bike. I am right in between the smaller and larger sitting at 5’11. What would recommend going with?
Dido, I’m 6’1” so right between L and XL. I think on a bike like this your better off sizing down. The geo on the bike definitely lends itself to a more playful, floaty riding style and I think a smaller frame size matches that. The advantage of sizing up will be more stability at high speed
❤❤❤❤
Hi, what do you think about switchback mullet
Hi Josh. Where is this ? Thanks
I was surprised about what you said about the ride quality feel. I thought Titanium would have more of a steel like feel in ride quality.
i have 2 Ti frames, The Maniak is way more supple vs the Bardino. The Bardino is similar to my Ragley Marley in ride quality
I was surprised too! I’m sure that just like all materials, there is quite a bit of range between manufacturers. But that was my experience with this one!
Thanks for weighing in!!
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy stiffness is related to frame material but has more to do with tubing shape and size. Bigger tubes are stiffer and smaller tubes are more supple (but weaker). Likely this frame has some slightly larger tubes than is strictly necessary to make sure it feels solid and holds up under big corners, big landings and accelerations.
Steel is typically made in smaller tube diameters as in larger tube diameters the tubes get very heavy unless given very thin walls. When given very thin walls they are more likely to dent, bend or crack. Titanium is lighter and so can be made in the larger tube sizes while still having decent wall thickness. With this said though titanium often is used in the same kind of tube diameters as steel and in these situations it gives a more supple ride than steel (at times too supple) as it is less stiff than steel for a given tube size.
Aluminium is lighter and is again less stiff for a given tube size. Aluminium tubes typically have an even larger diameter than titanium with thicker walls once again. Unlike titanium though aluminium should not be used in smaller tube sizes as it has poor fatigue life. As it bends the metal grows more and more brittle until it snaps or cracks. Big tube sizes help stop this from happening. Titanium and steel have excellent fatigue life and so are well suited to skinnier, bendier tubes while aluminium frames often have short lifespans or are limited to light duty in smaller diameters (recent marin team seatstays for example where famously supple but also cracked frequently).
Metal frames generally have quite low damping and so do not reduce high frequency vibrations (harsh feeling vibrations) in the same way that carbon can. There is some difference between the metals though and this can potentially be noticed when the bike system itself (tyres, bars, grips, seat) has low damping also. Steel has the least damping, followed by titanium, aluminium (!) and then magnesium. Recent frames by vaast in magnesium seem to be notably more damped and smooth in reviews.
Summary: While material does impact ride quality and stiffness, tubing diameter is a much stronger influence and is more likely to tell you about how a bike will feel or ride. All frame materials can more or less be made to feel a certain way by altering tube shape, however the frame may be too heavy, or too fragile when used outside of the ideal range of tube shapes. It is here that material is important- in determining the range of tube shapes that are practical for durability and reasonable weight.
Been loving the SS content recently- I'm a lifelong fixed gear rider and am about to build an SSMTB and start learning DJ :)
I love Ti, but it has a lot of flex. I'm a bigger person (6ft250lb) and the bottom bracket flexes too much when I'm cranking on my spacier/bigger older geo frames. Maybe on the hcht (more compact) geo, some of the good and bad is gone.
Where are you riding in the video. Beautiful
That's in the Ochoco mountains, east of Bend, Oregon!
As an owner of all the various metal bikes, the answer is no in my opinion. Racers are on carbon and nobody else needs to worry about weight that much. Steel is so much easier to repair and rides every bit as well as titanium. Also, everyone I know who has a “forever bike” rides steel.
My answer is yes as I bought a KONA Hei Hei brand new in 1992 " saved my money as an 17 year old kid for a year bagging groceries as it wasn't cheap and beat the hell out of it right through my 20's . I still own this bike and ride it at least 3 times a week as It's been converted to a single speed now as I use it as an Urban adult BMX bike that I can open my front door to pedal around in the city and it kicks ass for that purpose . I personally don't know anyone who's owned the same bike as long as or has ridden it as much as me as the frame still looks like new with just a quick buff with a scotch brite pad " although I removed the decals years ago ". It's also fairly valuable for the age as most steel bikes that old are worth at best $200 complete unless they're something special . Also steel fatigues over time as Ti doesn't .
Steel is awesome as well as my Fat Bike is a Surly Ice Cream Truck which is a tank 👍 as for me I love both .
I would like to ask you for an opinion on my bike i just bought a 2021 canyon grand canyon 8. Thanks i advance. :)
Great first bike! You'll probably find it's limit soon, and then you can start upgrading the parts that are letting you down (likely the tires, brakes, forks, or drivetrain)
Can you run a rear 26” wheel
Potentially, though you’d lower the bottom bracket a good bit and could run into pedal strike issues. I currently have a 27.5” rear wheel and 29” fork/front wheel and am really enjoying that setup!
I have a Lynskey TI gravel bike. After 6 year and 20,000 km riding it is starting to creak.
I'm currently looking at add a hardtail to my fleet; it's not buying another TI bike.
Its creaking because something is loose or needs to be greased . I've owned a Ti bike since 1992 and yes Ti in general will creek even if its new . My seatpost , stem and handlebars are all ti , my handlebars especially will creak as I have to retighten and grease the bolts and mounting brackets at times .
@@manchesterexplorer8519 you don't think the frame itself can creak?
I changed the BB, greased the headset, switched out the wheels. Still creaking.
The seat post is carbon and should not creak. I'm swapping out the pedals tomorrow...
@@hansschotterradler3772 Wheel bearings ? Titanium typically doesn't fatigue as its either good or it's cracked/broken .
@@manchesterexplorer8519 I swapped out the wheels from another bike; so it can't be the wheels.
@@manchesterexplorer8519 You were right!! I tightened the bolt of my seat post clamp mid-ride today (~ 1/4 turn). Creak is gone. Unbelievable 🤩🤣
I could never run anything other than BSA bottom bracket.
The switchback is BSA 👍
#1 the riser bar is too tall Should be no more that 15% or better yet flat with a 9 back ....#2 It is way over forked unless your trying to run a Ti hard-tail BMX on steroids dirt jumper. #3 the fork is also a weight deficient by an addition 1lb + to the frame, when you could have been maximizing you frames weight benefit with a SID ultimate 120 #4 plus then add the twist lock would (yes or no) to make you more efficient in the climbs with it being a single speed. I have been riding nothing but Ti since the mid 90s I proudly currently have 4 in the barn (hard-tail, FS, gravel & road) just never got around to a Fat.
Glad you enjoy your XC bikes, thankfully there’s lots of great ways to build/ride a bike, including BMX bikes on steroids 👌
@ridingwithjoshandwendy I’m looking to buy a bike - I’d really like something identical to your single speed RSD (like you BMX is my background) but I’m in the UK and getting hold of one is really expensive. Would you say this was the closest thing to the RSD you’ve ridden?
if i scratch up my titanium frame i just take a scotch....and leave it as is.
I see that you have the same parts as on your middle child, does that mean that the middle child is gone?
Just temporarily, I sadly only have 2 bikes worth of parts, so when people send me frames to review I have to swap them. But the Middlechild will always be my favorite 👌 And I plan to build it back up soon!
titanium is worth the cost if your main purpose is status symbol.
As opposed to what? Carbon? There are custom steel frames that cost $4000... So what point are you trying to make? As narrow minded as your comment 👎