If you have a an old car without a catalytic converter then yes, use zinc. It protects your camshafts and tappets. Putting oil with zinc additive in a modern car with a three way catalyst will shorten the life of the catalytic converter and the O2 sensors.
Listen/watch again: it seems phosphorous is what poisons the cat. And if I understand things correctly, zinc hitches a ride via a polymer - that is key to working in a running engine. Anyway... if engine isn't burning oil, no need to panic. All oils still have some zinc and phosphous in them - even newer tech that relies on calcium sulfonate as the primary wear agent. SN and SP oils today are under 800ppm. Its frustrating getting at/understanding good info: many manufacturers will state content by weight %, which is not a concealment by any means, but the average guy wouldn't know where to begin if data sheets used terms of molarity. Mainly, know this: add zddp to an oil and we are on our own. Any wear testing done by the manufacturer becomes bad data, and good luck finding the original - the void suggests that car manufacturers are over-lawyered and wherre they bring a lubricant design requirement to an oil company it probably has an NDA attached. Some oils respond well to added zddp, others don't. That said, I still use it selectively. My 1995 toyota seems to like zddp added to Castrol gtx: valvetrain [bucket/shim overhead cam] is noticeably quieter. Engine has been treated that way for a good 15 years, no cat problems, and now has about 240k miles. Power and mileage same as the day I bought it. I have not bothered to get the concoction [mechanically] tested, and maybe I should: in 2015, gtx was reformulated in the wake of industry getting up-ended by the Saudi's undercutting opec by $20/bbl out of nowhere in 2014. Car manufacturers these days seem to have blinders on regarding anti-sludge and high temp/high shear values, and device tolerances are tightening to get at lower viscosity oils in search of extra mileage. That is steering oil formulations. Actual wear protection? Concerns seem to be an afterthought the moment warranty expires, and CAFE changes [made by congress with zero science] continue to be a stumbling block to good design in some instances.
Yes I have a 3vze motor in my 4Runner and I put 244k on a motor that already had 60k and yes I definitely experienced cam wear running the older version of Castro 20w50 for years. So I have new cams in that motor now and I am running higher zinc levels in a different oil. I am in southwest
Non-roller cam engines need the addtional ZDDP if you are using modern API SN oil. Some cars, like Cadillac, had the roller-camshaft engines in the 1980's and still used API SG oils with the 1,200 PPM motor oils. ZDDP does not prevent oil rings from seating in the bore, period. If it did, then no car engine would have ever had the rings seat or "wear" into the bore in the days of the 1,200-1,400 PPM motor oils. The camshaft lobes and lifter surfaces are the main concern with low ZDDP levels.
Right on. Oils for non cat converter engines like outboard. motorcycle, small engine diesels etc. still have high levels of Zinc. That's why it's important that you use the oil that the factory recommends.
I always used mobil 1 full synthetic, but recently saw a lot of fuss about valvoline vr1, so got interested in it. Can anyone tell if it is any better or same as mobil 1?
Some of the mobile one does not have higher levels of zinc so you have to look at the chart and pick the one that has the higher level like I am running the European 5W 40 FS....1000ppm
i bet every manufacture of camshafts and lifters love this guys information because of all the camshafts going bad because of not enough zddp especially flat tappet camshafts
There is a curve to that: overdosing zddp has a protection rollover event and can cause wear after a point. We have to pay attention to our lift and ramp specs: that is what drives the need for higher spring pressures to maintain valve control. Let's look at a cam on the tamer side of things for fun: Howards 112571-12, which calls for a spring 98214 and [intake] lift is 0.455" on 1.5 rockers. On the seat is 115 pounds and max lift comes out to 302 pounds. Now lets point that force back at the cam through the rockers: 453 pounds [minus a bit on account of geometry, so I'll say 450 pounds]. High load area on the lobe/lifter interface is unknown since I don't have this cam to inspect after running, so assume that is 0.080" square which is 0.0064 square inches. Maximum load against oil film is 70, 312 psi over the nose. A proper engineer would make corrections, but we're in the right ballpark Now we see why Detroit did what it did back in the day: bigger durations to get at flow without too much lift, using gentle ramps to reduce moment of inertia problems as lifter direction reverses. LSA's spread to the wide side to reduce reversion volume was a natural result of those choices. Can we get at lower spring rates for the same cam lobe? Yes, but now we need a physics guy to recalibrate all masses involved - I'm not the guy. Maybe titanium valves & retainers allows lower spring rate to work at say...285 over the nose? That eases things to 66,797 psi [maybe] - this is spintron testing time.
What year was this? This video was made while API SM was still the standard and was actually a low water mark in wear protection due to mistakes in the formulation. Modern API SP oil is supposedly the best anti-wear engine oil ever, even for flat tappet cams, according to some tribologists.
If you have a an old car without a catalytic converter then yes, use zinc. It protects your camshafts and tappets. Putting oil with zinc additive in a modern car with a three way catalyst will shorten the life of the catalytic converter and the O2 sensors.
Listen/watch again: it seems phosphorous is what poisons the cat. And if I understand things correctly, zinc hitches a ride via a polymer - that is key to working in a running engine. Anyway... if engine isn't burning oil, no need to panic. All oils still have some zinc and phosphous in them - even newer tech that relies on calcium sulfonate as the primary wear agent. SN and SP oils today are under 800ppm. Its frustrating getting at/understanding good info: many manufacturers will state content by weight %, which is not a concealment by any means, but the average guy wouldn't know where to begin if data sheets used terms of molarity.
Mainly, know this: add zddp to an oil and we are on our own. Any wear testing done by the manufacturer becomes bad data, and good luck finding the original - the void suggests that car manufacturers are over-lawyered and wherre they bring a lubricant design requirement to an oil company it probably has an NDA attached. Some oils respond well to added zddp, others don't. That said, I still use it selectively. My 1995 toyota seems to like zddp added to Castrol gtx: valvetrain [bucket/shim overhead cam] is noticeably quieter. Engine has been treated that way for a good 15 years, no cat problems, and now has about 240k miles. Power and mileage same as the day I bought it. I have not bothered to get the concoction [mechanically] tested, and maybe I should: in 2015, gtx was reformulated in the wake of industry getting up-ended by the Saudi's undercutting opec by $20/bbl out of nowhere in 2014.
Car manufacturers these days seem to have blinders on regarding anti-sludge and high temp/high shear values, and device tolerances are tightening to get at lower viscosity oils in search of extra mileage. That is steering oil formulations. Actual wear protection? Concerns seem to be an afterthought the moment warranty expires, and CAFE changes [made by congress with zero science] continue to be a stumbling block to good design in some instances.
Yes I have a 3vze motor in my 4Runner and I put 244k on a motor that already had 60k and yes I definitely experienced cam wear running the older version of Castro 20w50 for years. So I have new cams in that motor now and I am running higher zinc levels in a different oil. I am in southwest
i run VR1 20w50 in my 1975 Ford Capri with a flat tappet cam and it's fantastic i change it once a year or 3000 miles and the engine is spotless
Old Fords Don't die you wouldnt happen to be FordCapriGuy on bitog?
14 years ago. Great info today.
I use vr1 in my Supra works great.
Non-roller cam engines need the addtional ZDDP if you are using modern API SN oil. Some cars, like Cadillac, had the roller-camshaft engines in the 1980's and still used API SG oils with the 1,200 PPM motor oils. ZDDP does not prevent oil rings from seating in the bore, period. If it did, then no car engine would have ever had the rings seat or "wear" into the bore in the days of the 1,200-1,400 PPM motor oils. The camshaft lobes and lifter surfaces are the main concern with low ZDDP levels.
Can you recommend VR1 10w30 synthetic for Subaru engines? Thanks
What are your thoughts on zddp additives for older cars with flat tappet engines & after marke cam's?
Popular in the 4g63 side good stuff 👍
Right on. Oils for non cat converter engines like outboard. motorcycle, small engine diesels etc. still have high levels of Zinc. That's why it's important that you use the oil that the factory recommends.
I always used mobil 1 full synthetic, but recently saw a lot of fuss about valvoline vr1, so got interested in it. Can anyone tell if it is any better or same as mobil 1?
I’ve been using VR1 in my classic car and it runs great.
@@princedark7230 I switched to Pennzoil ultra platinum from Mobil 1. car feels more zippy and pick ups seem smoother with PUP, so I made the switch.
Some of the mobile one does not have higher levels of zinc so you have to look at the chart and pick the one that has the higher level like I am running the European 5W 40 FS....1000ppm
i bet every manufacture of camshafts and lifters love this guys information because of all the camshafts going bad because of not enough zddp especially flat tappet camshafts
There is a curve to that: overdosing zddp has a protection rollover event and can cause wear after a point. We have to pay attention to our lift and ramp specs: that is what drives the need for higher spring pressures to maintain valve control. Let's look at a cam on the tamer side of things for fun: Howards 112571-12, which calls for a spring 98214 and [intake] lift is 0.455" on 1.5 rockers. On the seat is 115 pounds and max lift comes out to 302 pounds. Now lets point that force back at the cam through the rockers: 453 pounds [minus a bit on account of geometry, so I'll say 450 pounds]. High load area on the lobe/lifter interface is unknown since I don't have this cam to inspect after running, so assume that is 0.080" square which is 0.0064 square inches. Maximum load against oil film is 70, 312 psi over the nose. A proper engineer would make corrections, but we're in the right ballpark Now we see why Detroit did what it did back in the day: bigger durations to get at flow without too much lift, using gentle ramps to reduce moment of inertia problems as lifter direction reverses. LSA's spread to the wide side to reduce reversion volume was a natural result of those choices.
Can we get at lower spring rates for the same cam lobe? Yes, but now we need a physics guy to recalibrate all masses involved - I'm not the guy. Maybe titanium valves & retainers allows lower spring rate to work at say...285 over the nose? That eases things to 66,797 psi [maybe] - this is spintron testing time.
aint 1200 anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*****WHAT DIESEL OIL HAS THE ***HIGHEST ZINK???????
Shell Rotella. Especially the t4 rotella.
Vr1 is not good enough for break in……
I would continue to run the vr1 oil after break in.....i like the 10w30 flavor...umm
All that to say there is no problem? hmmmm..... seems kinda pointless
I ruined the cam in my 66 Corvette big block not using this zinc oil
What year was this? This video was made while API SM was still the standard and was actually a low water mark in wear protection due to mistakes in the formulation. Modern API SP oil is supposedly the best anti-wear engine oil ever, even for flat tappet cams, according to some tribologists.
Don’t care about new cars. Only classic