BMW E36 Vanos & Tensioners Install part 2

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  • Опубліковано 28 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 226

  • @justinglavin9484
    @justinglavin9484 10 років тому +1

    Just wanted to say this is a great video. I'm slowly replacing the head gasket on my E36 S52 and it's been almost a month since I've removed the VANOS... no way I would have remembered all these small but crucial details without your video. Thank you!

  • @fredbloggs1993
    @fredbloggs1993 8 років тому +3

    Good Job, from an old aircraft Engineer. Your approach to your work is as professional as you can get. Keep it up and thanks for an invaluable tool to getting this job done. You should be a professional trainer. Thanks appreciate the time you spent doing this.

  • @SixSpeedSeven
    @SixSpeedSeven 2 роки тому

    god this series was such a great DIY. It made the job look significantly less scary that I had imagined it to be.

  • @nealraphael
    @nealraphael 11 років тому

    I have to learn how to do this stuff... I have a '06 X3 3.0i and need vanos hose replacement as well as head gasket replacement and spark plugs (100,000miles Yay!)... BMW wants 3200 hundred dollars to do the job... erg... I would be better off learning myself I'd like to imagine, but I've never done anything that extensive to my cars... Your videos shed a lot of light to the things techs go through, in addition to my newly discovered and profound appreciation for oil... whew... Thanks again...

  • @kbushmeyer
    @kbushmeyer 10 років тому +8

    Just wanted to let you know that these videos were a HUGE help in rebuilding the head on my M50. Thank you very much for making them. Very detailed, and very good explanations on each step. You should make more videos, they are great.

  • @itsme__db
    @itsme__db 8 років тому +3

    This video with the workshop manual makes the entire rebuild a very simple and smooth process. Thanks a bunch!

  • @dknovas
    @dknovas 6 місяців тому

    You can't imagine how much your video has helped me, thank you very much.

  • @jimenezuc
    @jimenezuc 10 років тому +3

    Thanks for taking the time to create this video. I was assembling my 1997 528i which also uses the M52 engine. This helped validate what I was reading in the Bentley manual. Thank you!!!

  • @johnadams3152
    @johnadams3152 3 роки тому

    Wow !!! Your video was so helpful. Bentley manuals are great but they don't cover the finer details like you pointed out. Thank you so much. Keep those videos rolling in. Great job.

  • @stevek6953
    @stevek6953 8 років тому +8

    Your two videos saved my life. Thank you so much. You sir are a saint.

  • @joenationwide
    @joenationwide 9 років тому +5

    19:25 After watching this video I went back and re-installed my Vanos making sure to engage the first tooth. I didn't understand what that meant until I saw your video and saw the difference between engaging the first tooth and missing the first tooth. Thanks for the video!

    • @jettalfonso9099
      @jettalfonso9099 3 роки тому

      Sorry to be offtopic but does anyone know of a method to get back into an Instagram account..?
      I was stupid forgot my password. I would love any assistance you can give me.

    • @kaysenzion7902
      @kaysenzion7902 3 роки тому

      @Jett Alfonso Instablaster :)

    • @jettalfonso9099
      @jettalfonso9099 3 роки тому

      @Kaysen Zion thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out atm.
      Takes a while so I will reply here later with my results.

    • @jettalfonso9099
      @jettalfonso9099 3 роки тому

      @Kaysen Zion It worked and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
      Thanks so much, you really help me out !

    • @kaysenzion7902
      @kaysenzion7902 3 роки тому

      @Jett Alfonso Happy to help :)

  • @monteroexperience1424
    @monteroexperience1424 9 років тому +1

    Thanks a lot for the time put into these videos. I have an E39 540 and wish I could find detail videos of timing guides replacement and timing set as yours are. You make me wish I had an E36 soon, so I can follow your instructions. Great job!!!

  • @Almonte6433
    @Almonte6433 8 років тому

    Excellent tutorial video, you made the info flow like some of the best scientific procedures. I'm going through a head replacement now and found this video most helpful. Thanks for taking the time to make it. Please post as many as you can for other people and other times.

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  12 років тому +1

    Ventasmal Ventasma, Good question, I torque the intake sprocket nuts to 89 inch. lbs @ 15:57 minutes into the video, that is the final and only time they are tightened. Backing up in the video @11:20 minutes the intake camshaft hardware studs are torqued to 16 ft. lbs. I hope this helps...thanks

  • @MarioMartinez-zi8sy
    @MarioMartinez-zi8sy 8 років тому +1

    Thanks for taking the time and making a very informative video. Straight to the point and no excessive B.S. Its very detailed. Clean work!

  • @zorangrubjesic4140
    @zorangrubjesic4140 8 років тому +2

    I want to thank you buddy for this video, it helped me to instal a vanos properly on my 520i e39. I had a bit of trouble with it, but now it runs perfectly. Thanks again

  • @leolammas7940
    @leolammas7940 10 років тому

    Again.Another meticulous piece of skilled work.

  • @the_grube5782
    @the_grube5782 7 років тому

    I wouldn't have got the timing right without your video. Thanks!

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  11 років тому

    The small 3 nuts on the intake cam are tighten once to 89 inch lbs and that's it. The intake sprocket will still turn interdependently of the camshaft after it's tightened but the exhaust sprocket will not turn independently after it's tightened . I am not sure why I did not see your question earlier. Thanks

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  12 років тому +2

    Thanks, I know that 18mm nut is on there tight. I use an impact wrench to get it off, but I go really slow with the tool speed so it doesn't mar the nut.

  • @kobusswanepoel837
    @kobusswanepoel837 8 років тому

    thanx bro i dismentel a 325i head 3 years back and this vid realy helped my to put it back together!

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  10 років тому +15

    I don't know what is up but, I can't seem to respone to all of my comments, I really aplogize to all of you. This new Google Plus deal has changed everything!

    • @mashuleas9680
      @mashuleas9680 10 років тому

      excuse me you can tell me about what it's this vidio with all details and the secret of this video,please i want to help a friend to translate it in Romanian

    • @danw8266
      @danw8266 8 років тому

      Where are you located?

    • @mistergeilos8493
      @mistergeilos8493 8 років тому +1

      mybimmerspace

    • @trevorpopo8219
      @trevorpopo8219 7 років тому

      ny

    • @جيتلي-ض2ق
      @جيتلي-ض2ق 5 років тому

      mybimmerspace هههخه

  • @blwchnx
    @blwchnx 10 років тому +1

    You are the best , thanks for the help .I just wished you had a video of lower chain guides R&R . I could've used that for sure. Thanks again and keep up the awesome work .

  • @rafaelsaba1916
    @rafaelsaba1916 9 років тому

    Thank you very much, sir ! Really helped A LOT assemblying the Vanos on my M52B28 ! Salut from Brazil !

  • @shuffyracing2959
    @shuffyracing2959 9 років тому +1

    absolutely love your videos!!!! extreme detail and verbal description. pls keep it up

  • @25Crow25
    @25Crow25 7 років тому

    thanks to your video i removed and rebuilt my vanos for m50b20 when i changed the cilynder head cover gasket

  • @clinthightowerclinthightow4950
    @clinthightowerclinthightow4950 8 років тому +1

    Nice video, good job, Thanks! This refreshed my memory along with my book 101 performance projects by Wayne R. Dempsey, on putting my vanos back in proper time on my e36 M3 after changing the head gasket to a cutting ring style.

    • @ridhabenlakhak8350
      @ridhabenlakhak8350 6 років тому

      t Hightower Clint Hightower

    • @nadmeldev
      @nadmeldev 6 років тому

      The torques in Dempsey's book are way off from the torques recommended on this video. See my comment on 8/3/18

  • @GimpSlayerGeneral
    @GimpSlayerGeneral 7 років тому +1

    Feckin A! If there is anyone I would want to cover this subject its mybimmerspace!
    My head gasket has recently blown and these vids are totally the bomb.
    Installed front bearings from watching your vids, done it without having to look at a book, both sides perfect.
    Your motor is a museum piece, how do you get it so immaculate?
    Thanks Dude, from the UK, we love you guy's across the "Pond".
    Hurry up and commercialise that anti-gravity hypersonic scramjet ramjet transport thing you guys have developed so we can get to you in 10 minutes. Please.

  • @mkengineering5533
    @mkengineering5533 9 років тому +6

    thaaaanx alooot the mechanic did bad job on my e34 m50 engine and I did it my self depending on your amazing video the car now feels great >>> god bless you

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  11 років тому

    SunsetWingman, Yes, they are needed to properly time the cams and prevent movement while re-installing the Vanos. Can it be done without the blocks? yes as long as they are not M3 cams you could lay a ruler along the back of the cam squares making sure the little round dots are facing up and then align the cams so the ruler can lay flush across them. M50 & M52 cams have square cam ends.. M3 S50 & S52 have trapezoid cam ends. The timing blocks time the camshaft ends from the sides not the top.

  • @SecondHandManKase
    @SecondHandManKase 9 років тому

    These twos videos are awesome thanks a lot for the great detail! I can't wait to use this knowledge to replace my head gasket!

  • @magnusnielsen2648
    @magnusnielsen2648 10 років тому

    stopped by to brush up on this stuff, its been a while.
    Great vid, just what I was looking for thanx!

  • @alexlex6974
    @alexlex6974 10 років тому +1

    Очень содержательное видео! Большое спасибо! Порадовала высокая культура производства. Успехов вам...

  • @armandoesparza6103
    @armandoesparza6103 12 років тому +1

    This video tops any other on youtube. Good work!!

  • @becomematrix
    @becomematrix 7 років тому

    Thanks for these videos. Looking at the installation of the vanos at 20:00, why does it have to catch right away?

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  11 років тому

    Tubernua571, I am glad you caught that tensioner. In the past I have used SOS steel wool pads with WD-40 to clean up the camshaft lobes. If it's just surface residue rust like oxidation it won't be as critical.

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  11 років тому

    Billy Joel, I do know BMW had a service repair campaign that reduced valve overlap for non vanos engines up to 8/1992. They placed a 3 mm drill bit on each side of the outer edges of the timing blocks while leaving the center bolt loose on the tool. By reducing overlap between the intake & exhaust cam it effectively widened the lope separation which reduced idle lope and smoothed out the idle. I would run a compression test / check cam timing & (ECT sensor operation do to overheating)

  • @sarjentskwirrel
    @sarjentskwirrel 11 років тому

    what also works for the dummy tensioner is a 12mm deep socket inside that primary piston shimmed with dimes for those of us who have the different tensioners. as long as the socket sticks out about 20 mm or .787in. doesn't have to be exact because you are going to be "feeling it in" so to speak.

  • @nadmeldev
    @nadmeldev 9 років тому +1

    Thank you so much for the detailed video brother. I am about to change the head gasket on a M52 and this information will be crucial in my results.

  • @LeeshaStent
    @LeeshaStent 11 років тому

    Hello, thanks for this informative video, i got the timing wrong after headgasket replacement was very slugish and lacking power when hot. Now its mint after i followed your instructions. cheers

  • @HUBBABUBBADOOPYDOOP
    @HUBBABUBBADOOPYDOOP 8 років тому +2

    *You, Sir- are a Surgeon.*

  • @dany_6513
    @dany_6513 8 років тому +1

    congrats for this video and for the first part.Very useful to someone who never take apart an M50 engine like me.In my opinion if you would do more videos like this in the near future will be awesome...really cool.Again....respect and congrats!Sorry if my english is bad.

  • @gokupane1997
    @gokupane1997 8 років тому

    For anyone not using air taking the spring diaphragm out. you should probably lossen the nuts evenly as well when you install. When I took my diaphragm out the stud came right out first instead of loosening the nut. the whole stud came. But this I'm assuming happened cause I didn't loosen them evenly. I could be wrong though. Awesome video btw very helpful

  • @paulodias2039
    @paulodias2039 10 років тому

    I like your details, you are focus. Very good explanation .

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  11 років тому

    Humberto Navarro, I am sitting on an older head gasket video I made that needs editing (had minor problems with lighting and sound) I do plan on uploading it though. The video will cover the M50 motor although the M52 motor is the same unless you are dealing with a M52 aluminum engine block. I was out of town for three weeks and have a lot of catching up to do. Thanks for your patience.

  • @bloodreighn
    @bloodreighn 11 років тому

    Man oh man, looking at ur work I wish you were in my country to help me pull the head off my e34, and that engine is sooo CLEAN

  • @romuloaquino1833
    @romuloaquino1833 9 років тому

    great job, very detail, learn a lot about vanos repair. thank you very much bro.

  • @UnholySatyr
    @UnholySatyr 11 років тому

    Super informative videos. Thanks for all the time and effort spent helping us out. I have a question, i recently performed a head gasket on my 96 m52b28 engine. I'm thinking i may have botched the vanos install. The whoel bit about turning the exhaust sprocket counter clockwise and having the vanos catch on the first tooth. The reason i think this is because when i am at 4k+ rpm, there is this sort of vtec type noise that was not there prior. i am wondering, what symptoms show if you dont

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  11 років тому

    MrTedco JRi, Yes this video can be used to remove and install the Vanos on the 96 328i except your valve cover removal will be a little different. There is a Baum Tools located in Florida, they carry all the tools needed. They don't sell from their website but do accept phone orders. Ebay is also another source with reasonable prices.

  • @bluedemond5332
    @bluedemond5332 10 років тому +1

    so is the best video i have seen on timing, but what i dont get is how can you still rotated the cam shafts, the sprokeds with the timing block tool on !?

  • @Engineerboy100
    @Engineerboy100 9 років тому

    Very nice video, very clear and well done. good job.

  • @tubernua571
    @tubernua571 11 років тому

    you wouldnt believe how helpful these vids are, thanks! I had the whole thing stitched back up when I realised I hadnt done the tensioning at all, neither with the bmw tool or the dummy. So am back to the point of reinstalling the vanos again tomorrow morning and tensioning up things the right way this time. Am concerned how my camshaft lobes have lost a lot of their polish and have become rusty, due to the damp climate and my slow speed. Would this concern you very much ???

  • @blwchnx
    @blwchnx 5 років тому

    awesome video , very well put together .I just wish there was a install of the head itself ?

  • @يوزرسيف-ه4ش
    @يوزرسيف-ه4ش 9 років тому +3

    Oh man that's was some great information thank you very much

  • @SunsetWingman
    @SunsetWingman 11 років тому

    Been doing some more researching so I understand a bit more now. My s50 has square ends though..? so not sure but regardless the cams I'm putting in should have square ends so I'm gonna give the bar technique a go. Thanks for the reply

  • @rutopovi
    @rutopovi 2 роки тому

    Thank you very much for your videos. Great job! Gracias from Soain

  • @CosminRotaru
    @CosminRotaru 12 років тому +1

    These two videos are great and very well focused on the subject, of course. I just wanted to say that I want to see some more. Can't wait for the lifters video :D
    BTW: have you ever tried replacing valve rings/guides without taking the head of? I wonder if that's possible on the M52... :|

  • @rubencuellar4406
    @rubencuellar4406 10 років тому

    Great job mate! I'm doing Tuner Motorsport stage 4+ performance package on my 97 M3 E36 US 5-speed manual

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  12 років тому

    Yes it can be done with the head on....Valve springs, retainers and valve stem seals. But for the valve guides I'll pull the head off and send it down to the machine shop.

  • @pennykobori7145
    @pennykobori7145 10 років тому +1

    THANK YOU THIS IS THE BEST DETAIL

  • @PartzillaParts
    @PartzillaParts 7 років тому

    Nice job Sir.

  • @khengwoeiable
    @khengwoeiable 11 років тому

    Great video i just had a question. after you do two crank revolutions and if your timming on the intake cam is off by just a bit do you have to take everything apart again or can you just adjust it with the exhaust cam sprocket?

  • @scrav3n
    @scrav3n 11 років тому

    Thanks for such a great video, I wanted to know does the front lobes have to be lined up because when I lock my flywheel my rear cam lobes was pointing up instead of being in front. Will this make any difference? Thanks

  • @bigdeal87
    @bigdeal87 10 років тому

    Thank you for the great video!! I will do it soon to my M52.. Can u tell me when to take off the dummy chain tensionor out and out back in the real one? its not very clearly in the video to see, and what torque needed ? Thank you

  • @proflytebyron
    @proflytebyron 3 роки тому

    That was so well presented! Thank you!

  • @garythomas1263
    @garythomas1263 11 років тому

    Great Video!!! If you were only changing the timing belt gasket, do you need the timing blocks and dummy tensioner installed?

  • @danmcgovern1975
    @danmcgovern1975 7 років тому

    Awesome video, helped me a lot on my m52!

  • @brettaustin1362
    @brettaustin1362 11 років тому

    Great video! A quick question, hopefully you can help me with. I have a Mini Cooper S, R56 and I am finishing it up. I just purchased the chain tensioner and you mentioned 1ft lb or 1.3 nm. Do you know if its the same on my Mini? Much thanks

  • @kiirunjihia3698
    @kiirunjihia3698 8 років тому

    Hello, am called Kiiru Njihia from Nairobi Kenya. Let me first say thanks for awesome tutorial video you have done and so well explained. I would like to rebuild a BMW m44 engine. Is there a detailed rebuild manual for that engine and there is how would it cost me to purchase it.

  • @trevorgreen5129
    @trevorgreen5129 8 років тому +1

    94, 320ia . oil leak at the vanos just need a little bit more detail on how to replace the new seals for that area

  • @CosminRotaru
    @CosminRotaru 12 років тому

    thank you for these videos, but what happens between part1 and part2? Why did you took the vanos & tensioners off? I want to see that as well :)

  • @BadBandar59
    @BadBandar59 4 роки тому

    Very nicely made video! Thank you.

  • @johnboy1732
    @johnboy1732 9 років тому

    fantastic video very well detailed every step i would love to see a video on m60 engine without the vanos

  • @SGTRacing
    @SGTRacing 11 років тому

    If I have no play in the chain do I still need to use the dummy tool?

  • @porsche1314
    @porsche1314 11 років тому

    great videos, we need more. Do you have any recommendation for torque wrenches? keeping best value in mind.

  • @danl4480
    @danl4480 10 років тому

    Great video. What did you apply to the cam lobes?

  • @djfrequencyyaya
    @djfrequencyyaya 11 років тому

    Excellent work. Question. My 98 M does not have a spring in the tensioner. Any ideas how to simulate the tensioner if its a hydraulic tensioner?

  • @carlosrcplayground9864
    @carlosrcplayground9864 4 роки тому

    Excelent video very detail 5 stars, and trust, thank you very much, helped me too! Thanks from Portugal 👍👍👍👍👍

  • @lucab6790
    @lucab6790 8 років тому

    Good video, but could it be that due to the camshaft sensor is responsible for a suitable selective injection and ignition signal, that the mechanical failure of the seals of the inletcamshaft device could result in permanent engine run failure? Thanks for your answer

  • @joelrugg
    @joelrugg 9 років тому +1

    hi great video first off i am having trouble locating a diy on dual vanos removal.

  • @luizferreira3900
    @luizferreira3900 7 років тому +1

    hello would know if I can remove the spring from the tensioning screw of the control chain,
    is because in this video I saw you taking out the spring and putting some coins in
    I can do it on mine too.
    I have an i / bmw 325im sc2 regino 1993
    I'm from Brazil and I'm following the videos. I created this channel just to know about you.
    thank you so much

  • @kirilchuk
    @kirilchuk 11 років тому

    man, you did a very professional job, thank you for your video and demonstration.this will halp me to remove the head , i have no comp, in cyl 6 but i do gane some when i do have spark plugs in ,i notesed the big oil loss . i would get a code that will come back,more often when it cold days and not driven so now i know that my valve guide might be worn ot bant so .code came up each time as misfire in cyl 6 so i would clear it and clear it but oil loss became a big deal low oil warning will light

  • @TimGarcia619
    @TimGarcia619 10 років тому

    nice instruction very detailed and professional

  • @beestingz1
    @beestingz1 10 років тому

    Great video. At the end, you say that when you put the timing blocks back in and they "sit flush the timing is good". How does that work?
    Also, when starting, is it possible for the timing chain to jump a tooth before the tensioner gets oil pressure?

    • @jasonjones4268
      @jasonjones4268 9 років тому

      The blocks simply hold the cams in TDC, so when the crank domes back to TDC, checking that the cams did to will tell you everything rotated In sequence. I had a broken headgasket but when I took off the secondary chain tensioner I replaced it, huge tension difference after 180,000 miles. Also, and although there were no symptoms, my chain guide was broken in half, at least replace this brittle plastic part.
      The tensioner is hydraulic and doesn't rely on oil pressure from the pump, has its own shock.

  • @chrkaper
    @chrkaper 11 років тому

    i admire ur job and your skills!real professional!

  • @bigdeal87
    @bigdeal87 11 років тому

    First of all thank you very much for all BMW Lovers out there! Just super great Videos from u!! I wanna renew my Timing chain + tensenor and vanos soon, can u tell me if your torque specs also will fit my M52b28 engine ? Thx

  • @Almonte6433
    @Almonte6433 8 років тому

    My donor M52 head came with a different chain tensioner. It looks like the one you stuffed with pennies. The old tensioner has a different "business end", some sort of slot at the tip, whereas the one you used has a flat tip. I know there is a revised version of the tensioner, but I wander if it would be safe to install the flat head tensioner on my M50 engine. Need a little help here

  • @ventasmal
    @ventasmal 12 років тому

    You forgot to mention on tightening the intake sprocket final nuts. When do u tighten those?

  • @gsmecanica
    @gsmecanica 9 років тому

    amazing, super tidy procedure!

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  12 років тому

    Cosmin Rotaru, The main purpose of these 2 videos was to show how to take the Vanos off and change the upper tensioner & guide and then put it back together. So to answer your question "what did I do in between part 1 & 2?" I removed the cams and installed new lifters which I documented as well. I just have to do a little editing and I will upload it soon. Thanks, M.B.S

  • @rolanddoucet9437
    @rolanddoucet9437 6 років тому

    Very good video. Illustration and explanations are first class. Are you a BMW tech or Tech instructor? If not, you certainly could be. Thank you for this amazing video.

  • @blwchnx
    @blwchnx 10 років тому

    Oh one thing whats with the chain tensioner ? The one on my S50 is not the same has a slot in the end for the chain guide to ride on ???

  • @SunsetWingman
    @SunsetWingman 11 років тому

    Do you have to use the cam locking blocks if you are replacing the cams? I am assuming this is what locates the cams correctly to the timing sprocket right?

  • @34LILBEAN
    @34LILBEAN 7 років тому +1

    Do I unplug the battery first?

  • @archnoriega
    @archnoriega 9 років тому

    quick question, how was your timing correct? I didnt see you do a TDC on piston #1 is that ok or was it set before the video? then after you installed the sprockets and chain already marked in time with the bolt holes in the middle, then you proceeded to move the cams right and left I was freaked out!! how did you manage the timing alignment with the cams and the pistons?

    • @DailyDoseOfAffirmationz
      @DailyDoseOfAffirmationz 6 років тому

      Jose Luis you can see ex cam lob is pointed up as should be and same with intake pointed toward each other in this manner / < ex \ < intake. Get it?

  • @lv2xlr8NOW
    @lv2xlr8NOW 11 років тому

    thanks for posting real valuable information and a great video to boot

  • @SKVRrider
    @SKVRrider 10 років тому

    Hello, I’ve been following your videos while replacing my hg and lifters and came across a little issue. My chain to sprocket relationship on the crankshaft chain got rubbed off so I lost location, however,I put the motor on TDC and I lined it up so the holes were to the left of the elongated holes like in your video and how I’ve seen on pelican parts article. So I installed the other chain and sprockets that still had my relationship marks. I lined up center with te elongated holes on the intake side and took a look at the exhaust side and saw that they are not on center like you said they should be. So now I’m confused. So my question is, can I just move the exhaust side sprocket disregarding my markings to make all the holes center or what should I do?

  • @mybimmerspace
    @mybimmerspace  11 років тому

    You only need the tools when removing the Vanos to replace its' gasket. BMW calls Vanos gasket the upper timing case cover gasket.

  • @Avtovaz21057
    @Avtovaz21057 9 років тому

    brilliant vid, but my engine is twin vanos, iots a m52b28 so what do i do then for the other vanos?

  • @ChristianAsseng
    @ChristianAsseng 10 років тому

    Why did you make the dimes in the chain adjuster and then turned in?