Refuting CATHOLIC Authority (REBUTTED)
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2020
- This is the second entry in Trent's response to pastor Mike Winger's critique of Catholicism.
Part one: • Catholicism: Worth Arg...
Support Trent's Videos here: www.trenthornpodcast.com
One thing I really respect about Trent Horn is that when he is rebutting a video or clip, he plays the entire thing and rebuts it. He doesn't cut things out. He gives us the context of the videos arguments and then debates it. Really respect that and respect Trent so much for his work! God Bless
Except he doesn’t rebut anything..
He makes random interruptions and doesn’t usually even try to understand mike points .
In his head there is one and only priority “I am right, i must prove him wrong”
Very poor job. One of the worst “rebuttal” videos I have ever seen:
He merely stated his own opinions, with no answering any of the arguments brought up by Mike.but rather changing topic half of the time and those rare cases when he did adres the topic he just parrots the views of the Catholic Church or read something from the catholic catechism.
@@laurapiovan The main purpose of this video was to point out that most all of Mike Winger's objections against the Catholic Church can also be applied to him and his own church and Protestantism in general. Winger's argument is a classic "tu quoque" fallacy.
Yea and he rebuts the truth with the same false catholic teaching and warped false history written by catholics calling their garbage orthodox nonsense
@@dieselcowboy777 Im sorry you feel that way.
@@laurapiovan I am not a Catholic- but let's be honest here-- Horn directly answers every single clip he plays with some sort of substantive response. Regardless of what one thinks of his answers, he is by no means being evasive or irrelevant.
Kept it classy Trent. No ad hominem by you, just clear explanations. Adding you to my pray intentions of the Rosary today. Thanks for your hard work. You have no idea how your work has made a positive impact on my life. Thanks.
God Bless!
Jeff Cavins, a former non- denominational pastor who has terrific lectures on scripture said that one of the reasons he became catholic was that he was sick of being a pope.
😅
that’s a great quote
I am just amazed, how calm you are while listening to that.
100%
Mike Winger is lame
@@johnyang1420 At least whaddo you meme has a little entertainment value and gets stuff right when debunking athiests and the species of false prophets known as the sorcerer in disguise. Like TB Joshua in Nigeria. By the way being lame or cool has no bearing on a teaching being true or false.
alexander the paladin,
I dont understand that! Repeat please!
It’s hard to listen to when Mike is talking at warp speed & sounds ridiculous while you sound calm & measured. What a farce!!!!!
"...between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity..."
Oh give me a break
Bru Master even the joker couldn’t take that joke
I couldn’t help it when he said that, my face got red and I just started cracking up hahaha
Catholicism is the only Biblical Christian religion.
What time in the video??
Someone should ask these people: where did the Bible come from?
A response I left on Winger's video:
"Forgive me. The thing that keeps popping into my head is a kind of snarky redirection of your question, "Why do I need you? Isn't the Bible enough?" If there is no need for interpretation of the Bible and the historical facts, then why are we listening to this video? And if we can't just come to this stuff on our own, then don't we need a church with some authority to help guide us? I grew up Evangelical, but became Catholic. I was torn for some time, but ultimately the Bible favored the Catholic position, especially on the establishment of a Church that had authority to settle disputes. See Acts.
I really recommend Trent Horn's response to this video. It addresses all the critiques I had that I'm not elaborating on, and many more."
@Daniel Labbe the fruit of the church is bad? Hospitals, universities, charities, these are bad fruits? Shaping the modern worlds morality through the church. Somehow these are bad fruits. Truth is you rely on man's interpretation of the bible. I'm sure you attend a church. These protestant denominations have their own doctrines. So its hypocritical of you to accuse others of trusting in man's interpretation. You do the same! The only difference is we go to the true church established by christ. You go to guy in a tie to teach you how to interpret the bible. The holy ghost is in the catholic church, so it is God revealing truth to us through human agency.
@Daniel Labbe so if two protestant of different denominations, tell me that their doctrine is revealed by the holy ghost am I to believe in both? Afterall they both are telling me that they have been guided by the holy ghost. Even when the doctrines they hold contradict. The holy ghost word of God is telling me that his church is the catholic church.
Who do you think you are to tell others they don't follow the word of God?
Do you call your father father? Jesus is using hyproble speech . Just as when he tells to cut off our hands if they cause us to sin.
Is Jesus talking to you in the gospel of John? You quoted a verse but who is that directed to. Jesus also tells you his flesh is real food. Yet you may deny that.
Again you follow the ways of man. You're bringing modern ideologies to the bible. Relativism, that truth is based on the individual. The true church goes back 2000 years and Jesus is king.
Nathan Cushman Exactly! Protestants claim that their foundational doctrine is that of “Bible Alone” but they don’t realize the irony of having pastors interpret the Bible to their congregations.
So not only does the doctrine of Bible Alone not even make sense, especially the more you think about it and the more closely you look at it, but Protestants themselves don’t even follow this man-made idea because they listen to pastors and NOT the Bible Alone. The idea itself is illogical, and those who follow it are also inconsistent.
So whenever I debate Protestants, I ask them, “Do you believe in Bible Alone, or do you believe in the Bible interpreted by a Pastor?”
@Daniel Labbe
Daniel,
You willingly ignore what Jesus teaches in Scripture.
Remember what He said as He was about to ascend to Heaven?
NO, He didn't order them to provide Bibles or to have the faithful rely on their personal reading of the Old Testament, the only Scripture available, specially because 90% of the population was illiterate
He actually ordered His Apostles, among other important tasks, TO TEACH:
MATTHEW 28:19-20
19. Go therefore and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20. and TEACHING THEM to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, TO THE END OF THE AGE.”
Jesus also let them know that there were many more truths that will be taught through them, their successors, to all the future faithful.
JOHN 16:12-13
12. I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13. When the Spirit of truth comes, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL THE TRUTH; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
And for those willing to learn, they must hear Him through His ONE Church:
LUKE 10:16
16. “He who HEARS YOU HEARS ME, and HE WHO REJECTS YOU REJECTS ME, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
What will happen to those like you, Luther and Calvin who refused to listen to the Church Jesus founded?
MATTHEW 18:17-18
17. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and IF HE REFUSES TO LISTEN EVEN TO THE CHURCH, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
18. Truly, I say to you, WHATEVER you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
St. Paul confirms where the authority Jesus left will be deposited, in order to provide a constant source of truth for all Christians:
1 TIMOTHY 3:15
15. if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is THE CHURCH of the living God, THE PILLAR and FOUNDATION of the TRUTH.
Therefore, just like St. Paul, who inspired by God declares that The Church, not the Bible, is the Pillar and foundation of truth, God also wants you to be guided by His only Church, built on Peter, which will exist until the end of times guided by Jesus, just as He clearly promised in:
●MATTHEW 16:18-19
18. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of Hades WILL NOT OVERCOME IT.
19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind ON EARTH will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose ON EARTH will be loosed in heaven.”
Furthermore, Scripture never says that "Scripture" is the sole infallible authority for God’s Word.
Our Lord, specifically told the Apostles that they, the living Church authority, will guide His Church after His Ascension in unity, as He commands in:
JOHN 17:21-23
21. so that they may all BE ONE, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
22. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may BE ONE, as WE ARE ONE,
23. I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection AS ONE, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
HOW MANY CHURCHES?
JUST ONE!
EPHESIANS 4:3-6
"ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL".
May God bless your discernment.
@Daniel Labbe
Daniel,
You mean, if Jesus was the true Mesiah, he wouldn't have had an Apostle that sold him out for 30 pieces of silver?
May I suggest the bold idea that the community is not guilty of an individual's decision to sin?
As you well know, it is appointed for a man to die once and be judged individually for his own sins.
On another matter, I must tell you that we are not the Church of the Bible like many protestants claim, but are divided into thousands of churches and sects. We, in contrast, are the Church founded by Christ who made the Bible, inspired by The Holy Spirit.
We are 2 billion strong and our members are sinners who constantly seek forgiveness in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist, after we've been forgiven.
.
That's it.
I believe Pastor Mike has found something in Catholic theology that really challenged his belief system, and I do believe that he did these videos as a self-exercise to explain away these truths that he is finding, taking refuge in his own belief system. If you see his recent video on "typology" you will totally see how he is resisting the plain truths contained in Scripture, as beautifully expounded by Dr. Hahn.
'Pastor Mike' is obviously a woman/an 'FTM' trans..
i.imgur.com/2UezOtr.jpg lol 'men'...
@@nbip2845 Don't insult a fellow brother like that.
@@milkshakeplease4696 shut up
Is Pastor Mike really pursuing the truth or is he merely out to win an argument by strawmaning the Catholic position? The Protestant beliefs he should be defending include 1) salvation by faith *alone,* 2) that God capriciously preordains a few will be "saved" while the rest He condemns to perish 3) that there is essentially no freewill 4) that those who claim to say with absolutely certainty say are chosen among the "elect" are all so arrogant, conceited and unbiblical. You are asked to accept that this Protestant version of god capriciously predestines to save some, while everyone else from the “womb are doomed” to perish. In a total contradiction of Jesus’ own words, Matt16:27, James 2:27 Rev 22:12 *there will be no final judgment, no pruning of withering or dead branches, no late visits from a thief in the night, no “rewards” based on “works”, merely eternal punishment for those who were always going there anyway! *“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.* Where in the Sermon on the Mount did Jesus say "blessed are those whose faith alone has saved them. For theirs is the Kingdom of God."
Wow I think you are spot on. I literally just watched his video on typology today. Granted, I think Scott Hahn could have done a much better job of explaining but pastor Mike's rejection of the clear Marian typology was shocking to me. Even his overall method for using typology is not consistent when he uses it with Jesus but rejects it with Mary.
It is ASTOUNDING that anyone could be so willfully ignorant or deliberately deceitful to claim the deuterocanon was added in response to the reformation
😅😊
Ok is it me or Mike is willingly oblivious to early Christianity, its teachings and the history, or he’s flat out lying? 1) Catholics added books? Come on mate, the Eastern Orthodox has those extra books too, and they separated before the 1500s, 2) Eucharist? BRUH read early works of Christians, majority consensus on that and then believing the real presence. Being a Protestant seems like your pride and “””YOU””” being right is the most important thing not the objective truth. Theotokos please pray for pastor Mike.
Of course....he avoids it because it supports the Catholic position. He doesnt want to talk about it. The church that Jesus started is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the one true church. Im astonished that this is even being questioned and Im pretty sceptical.
T M you pretty much summed it up. Mike is willfully ignorant. It is a sin.
He is flat out lying ... Him and all Calvary Chapel sects of perdition! Even when confronted with Holy Scripture and sound doctrine and reason they still reject the teachings of the Church and hold fast to their man made skewed biased heresy.
vaticancatholic.com
Imo he's flat out lying. Most people who are confronted with this do not lack understanding that the Catholic church relies on tradition with authority resting on apostolic succession. His argument that the Catholic claims of authority is circular is particularly asinine.
You'd be surprised how many fundamental Protestants reject Early Church Fathers. I know one I went to church with (before my conversion) who called them "made up" many also believe the bible was fully complete and established canon by the 2nd century.
It just boggles my mind how people can think that the early Christians had it all wrong from the time Christ left until the Martin Luther 1500 yrs later. Really?
Look at the LDS. They believe everyone got it wrong until Joseph Smith in the 1800s.
@@dontbother8373 True. You know it's bad when your great grandpa can be like "Umm....no that didn't happen."
I think this is an oversimplification. I believe parts of the Catholic Church strayed from the original apostles’ teachings over time, not that everyone was wrong until Martin Luther.
@@rileychoquette6517 parts did....and they were usually corrected by the Church. example the Arian heresy. there are times when confusion arose or people said they thought one thing meant this. Without the Church there would be no one to clarify and say this is correct and this is not. Otherwise you have people making up their own stuff, sort of like now. The Church corrected errors through councils and defined dogmas to put a final stamp of "this is what we believe" according to whatever issue.
Right. And praise God for that. I’m just saying you said people think everyone in the Church was totally wrong until 1500, and I’m saying that’s not true-people like me think it was a slow fade and partial. I read Church fathers from before 1500. I mean Martin Luther used the New Testament (the apostles’ teaching canonized by church leaders) and church fathers to make his points. It wasn’t like he rejected everything prior to 1500. And very very few Christians would. Hardly anyone believes the way you described in your comment.
You're a class act Trent.I've never heard the hint of an ad hominem from you. You just address the presented argument. You're so valuable to the Catholic Church. Thank you.
“Catholics added to the Bible!😱”😂🤣😂😅🤣 Laugh out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haley Santander We actually did add. The Catholic Church added 27 books in 382 AD proclaimed by Pope St Damascus I. 😀 God bless🙏🏻
@@INRIVivatChristusRex
"Catholics added books to the Bible!"
"We did! Do you know which ones?"
"Uh... Judith, Maccabees, Toby... ... Zenobia... and a couple more!"
"Hmm... we always pronounced them Matthew, Mark, Luke, (etc)"
Fernando Vazquez Thank you for correcting me
@@borneandayak6725 Now let's not have Mean Spirits here..
You mean that Luther added the word ALONE after the word FAITH in Romans 3:28 and created the doctrine of Sola Fide.
Did Martin Luther Add to Scripture - Catholic vs. Protestant Series: #9 ~ @
Added to scripture?
Here is a list of doctrines added to scripture:
SOLA FIDE (Faith Alone)
SOLA SCRIPTURA (Bible Alone)
TOTAL DEPRAVITY,
EXTRA NOS IMPUTATION
PENAL SUBSTITUTION (not declared a heresy by the Church)
DOUBLE PREDESTINATION
ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
MONERGISM
ETERNAL SECURITY
LIMITED ATONEMENT
IRRESISTIBLE GRACE
PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
I could listen to Trent all day! Keep defending the faith! God bless
Trent, I watched the full video and it took me 2days to finish this because I would feel extremely irritated with Pastor Mike’s logic and reasoning. But Trent, through the grace of God you are sooooooooo impossibly patient. Thank you for inspiring me. I pray to have this grace too.
Not only that, he talks like he's a "trendy" cool guy. The Church should remain faithful to the teachings throughout all time and not to the latest fad in christian culture.
I know right,when I look at many videos relating to islam or hinduism I would nevee see a single protestant or a catholoc in the comments speaking about jesus about the truth.
I dont blame you. There is something very irritating about his attitude. I think there is a lot of pride behind it but I could be wrong
I agree
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is clearly present Body and Blood in the Holy Eucharist and that's why I'm a Catholic.
Darth Vader great to hear Darth Vader is a fellow Catholic!
That came from paganism in Egypt.
Eucharist is anazing
Trent looks like he's playing vs the level 1 stockfish in chess.
So much clarity. So much calm. Thank. You. Trent.
Poor guy. He’s getting rebuked in a lot of videos. I used to watch his videos and started attending a Protestant Church for a little bit and watching his (and other Protestant videos), and I always found myself defending scriptures and realized I was right when I chose the Catholic Church.
And even though I didn’t watch the whole video yet, I had a bit of a revelation I hadn’t realized until watching. So, Ruth and Orpah were two daughter in laws of Naomi. They were both urged to leave after her sons died. Orpah left and Ruth stayed. This feels like the story of Jesus’s mother being played out. Of our mother in law, we’re the only bride of Christ that stayed with Mary. Protestants and Catholics. Orpah and Ruth.
Junelle Salmon excellent 👌 insight. Praise God
Revelation ?
Hi, @junelledembroski9183 thank you. Your revelation really resonates with me. I love the book of Ruth. God bless you 🙏
@@rebeccaboukouvalas3137 I didn't even remember this. Praise Jesus. Thank you for bringing this revelation back to me. I need to go read that book again
Can't believe he claimed "Your Grace is Enough" by Matt Maher wouldn't be a Catholic song... best gaffe ever!
About Catholic theological terms: I tell Protestants who think it is wrong to make theology so difficult and use antiquated terms as well as terms that mean something else other than Protestant definitions, that Catholicism is basically a different language. An American wouldn't complain that Chinese is too complicated for Chinese people. For them it is natural. All these terms are natural for Catholics and they are simple for them to understand. Another point. Catholics have SO much theology. Well to me that is like saying, "History is SO complicated and there are just so many books to read!" Of course! How many nations and centuries and art and science... whew! How can we condense 2000 years down into a simple story? That is just illogical.
I will not bully Mike for saying PAPacy. I will not bully Mike for saying PAPacy. I will not bully Mike for saying PAPacy. I will not bully Mike for saying PAPacy. I will not bully Mike for saying PAPacy. I will not bully Mike for saying PAPacy.
AAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I feel you, man
😂😂😂
Trent, I am not a catholic, however I just want to say how much I appreciate your tone of voice and the fact that you respond so calmly and intelligently to this video. I am incredibly bothered by some peoples arrogance when they criticize other belief systems, and the lack of humility is not one that represents Christ and His love. You however, show great humility partnered with well thought out information. I cannot say enough how much I applaud you for your approach and the manor in which you do it. You have shown so much respect for Mike Winger, even though he appears to almost mock Catholicism on more than one occasion. Seeking truth, and being able to have discussions where people on different sides can discuss why they have come to these conclusions seems to be a lost art. You are a breath of fresh air, and I really appreciate they way you handle this. I enjoyed your video! Even though you and I see certain things differently, I look forward to hearing more from you. God bless you!
Try RCIA
Great job, Trent! I'm only new to your content, yet I am impressed. You are a great asset to the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. God bless you, brother.
I’m so glad you did this rebuttal. I came into the church Easter 2018 but wasn’t well catechised and Mike’s videos coupled with the scandals and drama at the Vatican ended up sending back to the comfortable, familiar arms of the Protestants again. Thanks to finding these videos of yours and feeling the thirst for the Eucharist, I’m returning to the Catholic faith and am reading your book “The Case for Catholicism.” I’m going to confession tomorrow and although my health situation doesn’t allow me back to Mass quite yet, just knowing I’m back in a state of grace and cementing my knowledge of the veracity of Catholicism already makes me feel sooo much better. Praying the my husband returns as well as I sadly showed Mike’s videos to him and he left as well. I’m trying to get him to watch these videos of yours to attempt to reason him back. Regardless, I’m back and back for good. I’ve learned more from your videos and books than I ever did in RCIA. Thankful for you!!
Pretty much alot of what I here from Mike is
"The faith is complicated and I don't understand it therefore it's wrong"
What Mike doesn't understand could populate an entire Way-Back Machine.
Actually Prots aren't the only ones to think the Catholic Faith is completed, muslims do too! A muslim friend of my nephew told him that. God Bless!🙏
Sorry typo error, i meant to type complicated not completed! 😄
I really really really Love our
Roman Catholic Cult
1 Timothy 3 15
If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
Thank you for giving it context. It does not mean the institutional church is infallible.
I prefer listening to Trent ...sweet music to my ears! Lord bless you, always!!!
Cause he says what you want to hear even if it is flawed.
@@colepriceguitar1153 here comes another anti
I hope you sent this rebuttle to him and that he watches it. Or if there's a way for us to send it to him...
I posted link to Trent's video in a comment below Mike Winger's video ua-cam.com/video/9AsPuOxVZKw/v-deo.html
Mike Winger just accused Trent Horn of being controversial and wont talk to him.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when Mr Winger watches this
I was like Mike Winger when I was an anti catholic, full of ignorance and misconceptions . I encourage fellow catholics to study the faith, read the bible, church history for if you encounter and engage protestants like this pastor, your soul will be at risk. This is based on my experience. I grew up a catholic and became anti catholic when I hang out with protestants in university. Though I wasn’t formally baptized as a protestant for they say it’s not necessary, I became a protestant in spirit. My view on catholicism was changed dramatically to the extent that I didn’t take the holy communion seriously which I regretted. Just last week I came home to the only one, holy, apostolic and catholic church, founded by Jesus Christ *not because of this channel* Furthermore, if you don’t know much about the details catholic faith while having conversation with a protestant, humble yourself and be honest to them that you don’t know much and never try to win an argument. But go home instead and start reading the bible and also writings of our earliest church fathers.
Protestantism is a demonic spirit of heresy and it is very forceful and prideful in an individual and around a protestant individual. We should pray for them and our heart should hurt for them missing out on sanctifying grace but we should not conform to their beliefs if they are more knowledgeable than us on scripture. The same thing has almost happened to me before by attending bible studies with heretics and attending so called "Holy Spirit filled worship services" with them.
You are engaging in spiritual warfare when you debate a protestant about Faith and doctrine, heretics are heavily influenced by demons... especially the Pentecostal and Charismatic kind.
Not trying to be degrading to these people but it is reality when you look at things from the perspective of the spiritual realm.
@@sterlingteall3462 They're confused. They cannot even agree with each other which resulted to tens of thousands of denominations and increasing.
@@qitzpaquitojr.reston2337 At least protestants dont bow down befor images.
@@thomashess6211 Which protestant sects are you referring to? I also bow down to my parents and grandparents, do i commit sin too? Do i commit blasphemy? Do you have anything else to say?
THANK YOU!!! I've been waiting for so long for you to do this
It's so funny to hear Mike quote a scripture to refute Catholic authority/teaching when it actually supports whatever he's trying to disprove. Lol.
You can press the space bar to pause as opposed to clicking.
Other than that you did a fantastic job!!!
Where have you been all my life?!
It's better to use the K key instead of space bar cause sometimes space bar causes the page to scroll
@@deedadee2 I prefer the "K" key as well.
@@deedadee2 I have learned something new.
"Everything in the Counsel of Trent is binding Catholic doctrine" Look at that Trent you're moving up in the world!
Personally, I really enjoyed the sped up speech of Winger. It saves time, and still gets the message across.
Me: Sees Trent Horn
Also Me: I am a protestant
But me: But Trent Horn has Thomistic ties!
Clicks almost immediately,
appreciate the content Trent!
God Bless :)
Subscribing
Daniel James Hole what keeps you protestant? I’m genuinely curious.
@@michaellancaster8221 Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think a online discussion on it would be useful for me. I don't really want to get in a back and forth. sorry, God Bless
Daniel James Hole no worries. I’m a convert myself. Most of the Protestant community I deal with is quite offensive to Catholicism, so when I see some that are appreciative or kind towards it, I’m always curious as to what keeps them from becoming Catholic.
That is really sad to here that you get grief from Protestants. Although I am not a Catholic I do recognise the importance of the decision, so that's why I will always be willing to watch videos like this, and currently reading his book 'the case for Catholicism ' and a couple others. Because it is a important question, and some Protestants really don't recognise that.
In saying that I would love to here what ultimately convinced you to make the switch, if you don't mind me asking :)
I'm not asking to do a 'response' to, but instead just for me to think on.
God bless you Trent!!!
Love this series!
Trent! I’m so glad you gave this rebuttal! I nearly fell out of my chair when he said the church fathers denied the papacy.
None of the church fathers denied the papacy, EVEN if they had disagreements with the pope. I mean, the truth is so obvious that you need to lie to deny it. It's really diabolical.
If they disagreed with the pope they denied his authority.
This is Great! Thank you and God Bless you
Trent Horn stay Saved by GOD✝️through His immaculate Ecclesia !
Keep Preaching the True Gospel of Rome
Brother in Christ
Haley Santander The true gospel of Rome is an oxymoron
Wgaither1
You are so funny
Great job! Keep up the good fight!
There he goes again with the word "heresy".
How do you have that patience man
Oh True Praise and True Worship be to our One and Only GOD AMEN!
The reformation rises and falls on its battle cry of "sola Scriptura" and it's compulsory need to deny Oral Tradition, the Majesterium, and Christs vicar on Earth, the papacy.
Amazing job to be so patient answering every point. Really enjoyed and learned a lot from this!
VERY AMAZING! VERY HELPFUL! GOD BLESS! 100% THUMBS UP! =)
I needed this.
Well done Trent. Very clear and succinct answers.
Trent you should invite pastor winger to a debate
Len k yeah the Marian dogmas
This is a very very good listening excercise video for people with English as the second language.
Would love Mike to come on with Trent and hash out his misunderstandings
I'm I the only one who likes Trent the most from the Catholic Answers? I find him very relatable and I think I would get along with him more than another apologists from Catholic Answers in a conversation.
I found this channel only recentlly and I like it.
Tim Staples is really good too! Tim has almost a photographic memory of the Bible! Trent is super smart too!
I really liked Trents book Why We Are Catholic. I like the short chapter style! Amazing book! Im handing out the book as a way of evangelizing!
Tradition IS NOT a dirty word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trent you are very gracious in your word. I never heard you said, "that is a clear lie", you usually say, 'that is not true'.
God Bless you Mr Trent
Great stuff thank you for this
Adore True Gospel of Jesus Christ !
Over 1 hour in. All of Mike's arguments seem to originate in his distaste for the idea that there is an authority outside his own two ears. It's a version of that first vile notion: non servium.
Mike: can you believe the audacity of the Catholic Church claiming to be the authority on the Word of God? Obviously I'm the authority, not them
I believe it's more like, God is the ultimate authority. And because of Jesus we can go direct to the Father for all our cares and concerns.
@@zacharybaker695 Catholic teaching also holds that Christ is the one mediator between God and the sinner, and that His sacrificial atonement is wholly sufficient. So there isn't a disconnect there.
But Mike is a false teacher and here is how we know: he preaches a modern gospel that differs from the one that Paul and the Apostles preached. Mike thinks he has the authority to do this despite Christ's clear establishment of apostolic succession of the priesthood.
You see, where Mike interprets scripture differently from the Catholic Church ( which relies upon the Magesterium of Church teaching throughout the ages beginning in scripture, through the Didache and Church fathers through today and founded on apostolic succession tracing all the way back to the apostles in an unbroken chain), he is setting himself up as the authority and basing his "authority" on nothing but his own word. That's incredibly prideful. Only the devil is more prideful than that.
Everyone can fall into the trap of setting his own understanding and authority over that of God's. Pope, priest, bishop, pastor. Everyone. The key is that we have God's own word as the test for what anyone else claims is "truth". If it doesn't line up with scripture then you know you're on the wrong path. There have been Popes that have been waaaaay off base when claiming something about scripture. The same with pastors.
That is why we have the holy spirit to help us discern what is Godly and not in addition to the scripture. God's word and authority superceed any on earth. And blessed be Jesus and his death that allows me to approach the father directly as an adopted son
@@zacharybaker695 the pope is not the authority in Catholicism. He's the protector of that authority which is enshrined in the Magesterium.
I don't think you realize that claiming that scripture alone is the source of authority immediately introduces a very big problem: whose interpretation is right? If two Christian's disagree on John Chapter 6 (or any other scripture) which one is the Holy Spirit guiding? It can't be both since the Holy Spirit is the spirit of unity and truth.
Now, you and Mike just assume (pridefully) that the Holy Spirit is guiding you and not the other Christian. Might I suggest that there are other spirits that also try to influence you. Those that (when we test them) seek to divide the body of Christ. Those spirits guided Luther and Zwingli and Calvin to break from the truth and unity that the Church upheld for 1500 years. Mike (and presumably you) are the victims of their bad fruit.
May the Holy Spirit illuminate the truth for you
@@illumoportetcresceremeaute887 I realize that. But over the years Catholics, guided/protected by the pope have been lead in some odd directions, including in recent times where popes have made comments that seems to indicate a position that God will allow other religions to come to him and be saved. Pastors have made similar claims. Everyone is subject to spiritual influences, good and bad.
I dont think its dangerous to claim sola scriptura. Its literally the words of God, what else could be better to guide our lives. Its cant be corrupted or lead astray like people can. And its by the grace of God that we are saved and even kept in the faith, its not a work of anyone on earth that keeps our faith strong and assured in our God. And, yes, I agree that it is difficult that different people have different interpretations, unless it affect major tennants of the Gospel and salvation then does it matter?
God is infinite, and infinitely beyond our understanding. And to claim to be able to perfectly understand Him and His will, even one one point of doctrine, I think is arrogance.
I believe that the Hold Spirit guides all who are truly in Jesus. And we are assured that is His guidance when we use the scripture as a "litmus test" so to speak.
People, even people who are truly following Jesus will disagree. They key is whether or not we do it with love, and whether or not those disagreements are serious damnation, or simply differences in faith. Akin to when Paul talked about eating meat sacrificed to idols.
I appreciate you talking to me. I have wanted a good conversation with a Catholic for some time. Its a shame it cant be done in person as opposed to over youtube.
Trent that was a very good point when you said the Bible is just a book, it’s not an authority, you need an authority to interpret a book. The U.S. has the Supreme Court to interpret the constitution, there is a reason just about every nation has some sort of authority figure that interprets their countries founding documents and laws.
I actually do like how Mike Winger does push back against certain aspect of Prosperity and Progressive Christianity that's poisoning the teachings.
But Mike sounds like he has a massive chip on his shoulder, so I'm glad this channel exists to offer a counter argument.
As a Protestant, I really love Mike but it's becoming more and more clear to me that Catholicism has the best basis for critiquing Calvinism and progressivism. Mike rejects both, but I realize he then uses their arguments against Catholicism. It makes me think there's no intellectually honest position outside those three and Mike is afraid to have to commit
True Believers Need the Holy Bible of Lord Jesus Christ and the Catechism Of Holy Mother Church
Haley Santander 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:15, ESV)
Wgaither1
Hello I am 17-year-old
Catholic Bible believer .
GOD’s Word is immaculate
I agree with all my Soul and heart !
even when the Sacred Scriptures Are difficult
Haley Santander The man of God is complete, without the CCC
Wgaither1
I disagree
No Man of God now is complete without CCC and RCC
Nothing will change my mind about my Religion/Faith in Jesus
Great point about what makes a Christian. Protestants can't be consistent with this, as James White can near be consistent with it when people ask him questions about the orthodox church. He hates that question, and almost waves it off.
Never*
I totally agree with you about Dr James White and the orthodox church I have noticed this as well.
@@michellea9857 He gives other protestants more of a hard time than them, even calling non reformed. You couldn't make it up.
@@michaellawlor5625 I watched him do a video on Hank Hanegraff when he became Orthodox. I was expecting a good critique and all he did was hem and haw for about 20 minutes (or more, I can't remember). He was doing the best he could to give Hank a pass while still maintaining that Catholics are what he thinks they are.
Great insights.
Thanks for this masterpiece.
Catholics are far more Scriptural.
Are you joking?
This is just a home run derby. EXCELLENT
Not hardly.
I may not agree with you on everything, but I applaud you calm nature when.
explaining and responding to people on matters of what we believe.
It was a great idea to do these critique videos.
1:53:00 I think is where it really falls apart. Peter literally comes from the word for rock. Petra/Petros. Kepha/Cephas. Why would Jesus change Simon's name to "rock" and then say "on this rock I build my church"? Why give a parable about "the wise man builds his house upon a rock"?
John changed his name.
@@colepriceguitar1153 John changed Simon's name to Peter?
@@brittoncain5090 no, John’s name was changed so it was not a practice that was unique to Peter.
@@colepriceguitar1153 We're not claiming that Peter's change of name is significant because it's unique to him, we claim it's significant because of the circumstances surrounding the change. I would recommend you read Matthew 16:18 onward to clarify the issue.
@@brittoncain5090 that passage is referring to the Church being founded at Pentecost when Peter preached the first sermon. It’s not referring to Peter being the Pope.
Well done, Trent.
Great videos, thank you. I know social media is a terrible place to dialogue, but have these videos been posted on the original's site for sake of discussion?
I like this! Great work!
Mike Winger skips 2000yrs
But is gonna tell us all about
Christendom. Right
He never claims to have authority over everyone like Rome does.
A young Protestant here! Still have a long ways to go through your content, biblical history and such, and while I may not be convinced of much so far, it is very relieving to hear some of the explanations you’ve given that bring Catholicism into a better light than it often is given. Just growing up I never heard many speak on Catholicism at all, and in the rare times they did it was negative or wholly dismissive. Glad to have a change to that here.
You are about 2 months ahead of me on this, haha
Take RCIA
Happy to have found this! Everything is un bíblicas if it taught rather than read.
"Doesn't keep Matt Maher from sing'n it"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Seems like a lot of people are bashing pastor mike for getting so many things incorrect but I think it's great that he's diving into this head first and trying to wade through it. Only good can come from trying to understand and teach something even if he's way off, especially when we have lots of Catholics who know how to respond. I imagine that if he's sincere like he says then he'd be willing to be corrected and discuss these things more one day.
@Qwerty well he said himself that he's sincere so it's not coming from a place of condescension in his mind. You can also be smug and correct which people don't like either. I actually learned several things I didn't know watching trent pause the video and give explanations or rebuttals. I really like the format a lot and I dont think I'm the only one that gained something from it. So if you can't see the benefit then at least see that I'm a more knowledgeable catholic now because of pastor Mike.
@Qwerty i don't think he's very eloquent actually. so I'd disagree with you there. for example, when he was reading in timothy trying to prove sola scriptura he basically just read the verse then said something like, "i think it sounds sufficient." which i thought was pretty terrible considering his entire theology is based on this premise.
his best argument in my opinion was when he went after a formal infallible statement by the church about the papacy being known from the beginning and that matt 16 definitely means that Peter is the rock and therefore the first pope. He tried to show that this wasn't agreed upon by the church fathers. trent showed why his source for that was sketchy and also, if people disagreed with it then it actually proves the catholic church's point that it was known, otherwise no one would have anything to disagree about. it doesn't work. but i actually think that this is the way that one should go about trying to disprove the authority of the church. go after the teachings that claim to be without error and try to find error in them. but really that was the only good one on his part. everything else showed that he didn't really know what he was talking about. but i don't fault him for that because it would be hard to decipher a lot of catholic stuff especially if he's been biased about it most of his life.
He will end up reading his way into the church uf he remains honest and humble
Another great video, Trent. Thank you for going through this.
I had to laugh a little bit when you said "Peeeeter is the leeeeeeder" (misspelling intentional)
We need GOD’s immaculate Catholic Church
She gave us the completed Holy Bible !
Then contradicts the Bible.
⚜️Catholic Authority💞
Didn't the Council of Trent (pun intended) affirm the material sufficiency of grace? I wonder if Mike is aware of that.
The ordinary magesterium of the Council of Trent also directly contradicts St. Jerome, the man who translated the Latin Vulgate, by canonizing "every part" of the "old Latin Vulgate."
There is no way around this.
Jerome's commentary on Daniel specifically acknowledges the widely panned extra chapters of Daniel "exhibit no authority as Holy Scripture," yet these chapters were "infallibly" canonized by the church. Error cannot be infallibly accepted as truth. See the links below:
www.tertullian.org/fathers/jerome_daniel_02_text.htm
www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch4.htm
Progger_Frogger St. Jerome could have just been mistaken in his beliefs about the end of Daniel. Catholics believe saints have been wrong about several issues that were later defined (Aquinas denied the Immaculate Conception, for instance). It's not a problem
Christopher Johnson
Much easier and more logical to believe the Council of Trent was wrong. To this day there is no evidence that those chapters were in the original Hebrew text of Daniel. You are literally just blindly believing Trent, and you only believe Trent has this authority to invent theology based on some vague language Jesus used regarding Peter, the church and keys.
@@IAmisMaster
It was Jerome's opinion, not the consensus of the Fathers, Augustin desagrees with Jerome for example, and we have massive amount of pre-nicene and post-nicene fathers quoting from the deuterocanonical and calling It Scripture.
After the councils of Rome, Hippo and Carthage, the canon was defined, and even Jerome accepted the Canon that the Bishops decided there, because he was Catholic! and he knew that his personal opinion isn't the Pillar of truth. Jerome have post-carthage letters quoting the deuterocanonicals as Scripture!
So, stop this Jerome Bogus argument, it was the oppinion of one guy (that changed his mind), and not the consensus of the fathers, Jerome himself abide to the Canon decided by the Catholic Church.
And even the deuterocanonicals of the New Testament was disputed (Hebrews, II Peter, II and III John, Jude and Revelation), the church decided that! Many Syriac churches even to this date don't accept those books as canonical, why do you abide to this tradition?
@@IAmisMaster The Peshitta, and the LXX had this Verses in Daniel, and the Fathers quoted from it.
God our Father in heaven gives us grace through His Holy Spirit to have faith to know that Christ Jesus is LORD
Thanks Trent, your stuff is so helpful ❤❤❤
It’s misleading
@@colepriceguitar1153 yeah, Mike Winger has that problem
@@colepriceguitar1153 I see you keep replying to people with baseless accusations. Can you explain how Trent is misleading people?
@@Jay33_ by leading them towards Catholicism
@@colepriceguitar1153 What is so wrong with Catholicism that you hate it?
I'm a convert and I've.never looked back, at last.i found.the truth of .the ancient.Church.
Leave the paganistic Catholic Church.
@@colepriceguitar1153 What a dreadful thing to say. Yes we r all different, Catholic Orthodox and Protestant (1000s of varieties), but who r we to.judge. Jesus said ... do.not judge lest ye be judged. And to ..
LOVE one another as i have lived you .. Let God be the judge, who r u? We r all different, let us accept that. Maybe u should read a book or Bible on Christian history. Christ founded the first Church, Catholic. And the many many Protestant Churches that evolved after the Reformation were all founded by different men with differing interpretations of the Bible. I.have friends from.differing churches and iive them all. Let God be the judge! He is the only one that can bring it altogether.
Sola Scriptura Protestants can’t even decide if baptism is necessary or if salvation can be lost.... 🙄
Adam M. You have priests who believe the same thing
Adam M.
Sola Scriptura has only caused more division than any other heresy . The only reason people can still believe in it can only be due to cognitive dissonance.
@@Wgaither1 Priests are not the church. There are Catholics who believe LGBT stuff is right and all that.
Pastor Mike mentions it that Catholics are not Catholicism.
Both of them claiming inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Which just leads to a dead end created by a 500 year old made up Heresy.
Thanks for making another great video, Trent! I really enjoy this style of video - having you two side by side, commenting as you go. Definitely do this for other popular apologetics videos! Can't wait for part three
(Also, I think you may have sped him up a bit too much? Can you dial the speed down just a bit so he doesn't go Mach 5 at times?)
Old Pastor Billy Bob lost his point when he basically admitted that he didn't understand theological terms.
Trent, your zeal for apologetic exhortation inspires and mentors me in my desire for growth in apologizing Catholicism with Protestant friends. The conundrum I continue to run into is the scenario you mentioned on Pints w/ Aquinas, pertaining to confirmation bias. Arguing religion with fellow Protestant brothers and sisters feels a lot like banging my head against a wall at times, and as such, I wanted to get your take on personal experience coming up in this apologetic field. I find it frustrating when I show Protestants objective truth, and due to their confirmation bias, twist it into subjective truth and thwart attempts at productive dialogue. Any advice?
Vince Chaverini You didn’t ask me but here’s my two cents anyway.....
I’ve run into the same frustrations over time. It seems that the best we can hope for, oftentimes, is to plant seeds. And, we never know what fruit they might bear, if any, or when.
Still, the tactic that seems to make the biggest impact is this; Tell you interlocutor, “we all know what the Bible SAYS. But, we disagree on what it MEANS. In other words, we have a difference of INTERPRETATION. You might interpret certain passages one way while I (we Catholics) interpret the same passages another way. But, where did our interpretations COME FROM? Let’s compare your and my interpretations with the interpretations that the apostles taught to the early Christians.” Then, this gives a better reasoning for reviewing the writings of the early Church Fathers. It begs the question, “when was this interpretation invented?”
Trent, I'm so glad that you are doing this. I have watched many of these anti-Catholic videos and I'd love to respond, but I would probably not be as charitable as you are being. So I'm glad you can calmly watch this stuff and respond in a very healthy way. This Winger guy , John MacArthur, John Piper, etc need to be responded to by a Catholic apologist.
The only thing we need to know is that Mike Winger doesn’t like the infallibility of councils, but he does like the infallibility of the council that assembled the Bible and that defined the Trinity. 9 minutes in and we already see his stance getting ripped to shreds.
Hey Trent! Why don't you and Mike have a debate or discussion about these issues over on 'Modern Day Debate' or 'Capturing Christianity's' channel? I think that would be very helpful :)
THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH! THIS PASTOR IS INCORRECT IN MANY THINGS!
Martha Rivas-Marin Is your Pope incorrect also
The Traditional Catholic Position is the TRUTH Of GOD Which the Majority despises
GOD Bless Antioch
Pastor Mike actually highlights all the treasures of the Catholic Church. Even without Trents defence I guess an honest seeker would be amazed at the sole richness of the materials supporting Catholicism. Of course, Trents defence is on point and just brilliant.
Trent’s rebuttal is hardly strong.