How I Wrote My Most Complex Piece
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
- Four years ago, before youtube became an outlet for my nerdy ramblings and anti-‘Fur Elise’ propaganda, I embarked on the most ambitious creative project of my life: to compose a set of four piano etudes. Rather than focusing on specific areas of pianistic technique, such as scales, arpeggios, parallel thirds etc., each work would focus on a different compositional technique, as well as a range of extra-musical imagery and metaphor, like astronomy and meditation.
The first of the set, subtitled ‘Mirie it is’, is based on Ligeti’s concept of tempo fugue - a style of counterpoint in which voices sound at different speeds to create the effect of simultaneous different tempi. Getting to grips with this technique was an absolute nightmare and ‘Mirie it is’ ended up being the most time-consuming and complicated piece I’ve ever attempted.
In today’s video I’m going to tell you how I wrote it; in the process, we’ll explore tempo fugue and maybe even equip you with the tools to compose your own…
1) Intro - 0:00
2) A New Approach - 1:04
3) Automne à Varsovie - 3:45
4) So you want to write a tempo fugue? - 5:28
5) Adapting Tempo Fugue - 8:36
6) How did it turn out? - 10:39
7) Conclusions - 14:53
Many thanks to the following musicians who kindly gave permission for their recordings to be featured:
1. Daniel Kuehler - Messiaen Prelude no. 5: • Messiaen: 8 Préludes
2. Martin Ivanov - Liszt Transcendental Etude no. 4, 'Mazeppa': • Liszt - Transcendental...
3. Paul Barton - Chopin Op. 10 no. 2: • Chopin Etude Op.10 No....
4. Simon Karakulidi - Ligeti Etude no. 1, 'Desordre': • Ligeti Etude no 1 Deso...
5. Denis Zhdanov - Ligeti Etude no. 16, 'Pour Irina': • György Ligeti Etude X...
6. Dmytro Choni - Ligeti Etude no. 5, 'Arc-en-ciel': • Ligeti: Etude No.5 "Ar...
7. Imri Talgam - Ligeti Etude no. 6, 'Automne à Varsovie': • Ligeti Etude 6, Automn...
8. TENET Vocal Artists - 'Mirie it is': • Mirie it is | TENET Vo...
9. Vadim Chaimovich - Viner 'Something She'd Like' : • 'Something She'd Like'...
Listen to the four etudes: • FOUR ETUDES for piano ...
frederickviner.com/
www.buymeacoffee.com/FredViner
So that's why there are less than a handful of recordings of the complete Ligeti etudes in the catalogue. These works require a brain capable of comprehending particle physics. Danny Driver's recent recording on Hyperion is pretty great. Yuja does a few of these really well. There's the classic recording by Aimard.
The diminished 7th polytonality reminds me of Szymanowski's First String Quartet
Love that piece. Do you know his four etudes?
he also wrote twelve more later
This video is amazing, and it shocks me how people can write stuff that is SO complicated and still sounds good... You did a fantastic job at this piece, please keep composing!
Ives does this (and well before Carter or Ligeti) in many of his pieces, but without anything sharing a common denominator. For example, look at the opening of the Housatonic at Stockbridge (from the Three Places in New England): sixteenth-note 10-tuplets in the first violins against eighth-notes in Vln 2-3 and then eighth-note triplets in violas. The idea was developed further by Thomas Brodhead in his Polytemporal Etudes (2008), which are on UA-cam.
This turned out beautiful. Also very satisfying to learn how you made it. Thanks a ton!
This is absolutely fascinating! Love the sound too. Thanks for sharing!
Your an amazing composer and musician keep it up
Cheers mate :)
I think it’s exciting having parameters for the music you write! When I personally started composing, I would enter music into a playback software not really knowing how it would sound, and get feedback when it played it back at me. Having rhythmic structures that lay out things with an abstract identity, it’s interesting what I pull from it, like a rorshach test.
What a fabulous piece!
So pleased you enjoyed it!
the resulting composition sounds amazing !! well done
Thank you!
This just blows my mind! Wow! ❤
Fantastic analysis of the technique and how you approached it!
Thank you!
This was fascinating, and I feel like I need to watch it about 17 more times before I could start wrapping my brain around the tempo fugue concept haha. Really cool to be able to understand that piece better now, though. I still love the ending where everything quiets down to simplicity again and ends on C.
I noticed in your Winter Waltz, there are a couple spots where the left and right hands are playing the same phrase, but one of them double the speed of the other - I think leading up to the climax of the piece, and then again at the very end. Much simpler than the tempo fugue obviously, but your explanation reminded me of those snippets. (I didn’t notice this effect till I began practicing, and it threw my brain for a loop the first time sight reading haha)
Great job with this video, it’s really well done!
Thanks for the lovely words, Bethany! I hadn't spotted that connection between the etude and winter waltz - it's funny how older pieces can worm their way into future ones in unexpected ways...Have you written any etudes/studies?
I'd love to hear you play winter waltz!
@@FrederickViner I think all composers have certain patterns/textures they tend toward - it’s interesting to listen to a lot of Yoshimatsu at once, for example, and to start hearing things he reused, consciously or not. I haven’t written any etudes… I’m currently trying to wrap up a set of 24 preludes that I began several years ago 🙃 only 2 left!
I’ve been meaning to ask if you minded if I recorded anything from ‘Keeping On’ and shared it on UA-cam (linking to your channel of course) - they are such fun to play.
I STILL haven't properly listened to Yoshimatsu, despite several people mentioning him...😬
Wow!! That's amazing! I can't wait to hear them all when they're done - are they in the 24 keys?
I'd be delighted if you wanted to record anything from Keeping On and you'd be more than welcome to upload it to UA-cam!
@@FrederickViner haha you have to do it! A lot of his shorter pieces sound very folk-modern; he seems fond of mixolydian and mixing odd time signatures. And the memo flora concerto is still one of my favorite concertos ever!
Yes, they are in 24 keys. Somehow I’ve managed to avoid Bb major for 4 years despite improvising in that key all the time… And thanks so much! If/when I record them, I will let you know!
Fascinating and well articulated but unintentionally funny was, to my free UA-cam, a jazz ad entering just as you said 'and this is what that sounds like'!
The ads drive me mad. I used to listen to music exclusively on UA-cam, but since being interrupted by Tina Fey like 4 times during Mahler 9 I’ve moved to Spotify
I am incredibly fond of the etude Fem. That quintal texture is strong as iron (pun intended). And Fanfares is also one of my favourites. The mental breakdown is just gorgeous. White on White is very moving.
I am very fond of writing fugues. Did experiment a lot with that. Also tried my hand at temporal fugues and canons. Partially even more strict than Ligetis, as canons are even more limiting. And you have to start with the slower moving voice, in order to get some polyphony in the end. and it is also very prescriptive in the shape of the piece as the movement increases as the entering voices have a faster pace. Therefore I abandoned the experiment.
Also have done an experiment where a chordal motive in the left hand starts at a slow pace, and each 'fugal entry' it increases in tempo, and the right hand does the exact opposite: starting fast and gradually slowing down.
I found that experiments can be 'interesting' but do not always yield good pieces. :)
You are a great educator! I think you should talk more about musical form.
Riveting video! Really clear explanations. I also agree with your message at the end -- the tempo fugue is a bit too 'cerebral' for me. I like the other etude better, too. Sometimes complexity gets in the way of emotional expression.
It's interesting how many of us composers are using this type of time variations, I used to know it as prolations (the renaissance term). I also love the use of different tempo leyers, polirrythns and polymeters. What does this say about our society's philosofical zeitgheist? It is an interesting reflection about the existence of different layers not by opposition but just by chance. I think that the correct term for a composition etude could be in the lines of "ricercare", like Bach used to name some works, it means research.
Wonderful, I really enjoyed the piece, you are producing some great piano music! Tempo fugue it may be, but, to me, it sounds like a set of variations, and a very good one at that! Anyway, great stuff, whatever it might be...
Thank you so much! I supposed it is quite like a theme and variations - maybe I should give that genre a proper go. Do you compose yourself? :)
@@FrederickVinerI think you should, a great set of variations is a joy to behold, particularly for people who suffer of insomnia (sorry, I just could not resist 😇). I did write a short sonata for violin solo when I was a teenager, but later nothing became out if all (I am not a musician by trade, just went to music school, violin, up to sixth grade...). Last year I started thinking about a symphony but not knowing how to go about it, I reduced the aim to a string quartet and later to a piano sonata. After listening to a lot of Ravel piano music I eventually gave it up as I thought I could never get anywhere near to any of that. One should respect one´s limits. The more I am happy to have discovered your music on the tube, I really love it!
oooo i might try this out on a sacred harp tune i've been meaning to work with.
I’d love to hear the result!
One interesting difference I see in your approach is that, unlike Ligeti, it seems that you chose to not maintain rhythmic proportionality between the layers. The lamento theme Ligeti used is rhythmically quite simple since it consists entirely of only 2 rhythmic elements: short notes and long notes. If you like, quarter notes and half notes. That made it easy to notate everything with an underlying pulse of 16th notes while still maintaining proportionality since the other layers would be 3:6, 5:10, 6:12, 7:14.
The theme you chose it more rhythmically complex so, maintaining rhythmic proportionality using an underlying 8th note pulse would've been too complicated. But, if you had wanted to do it that way, one interesting thing to do might have been to take advantage of the fact that theme can be felt in 12/8, 6/4, or 3/2 and present the other rhythmic layers using triplets and duplets relative to the main pulse. It's a bit like what Ligeti did in the first movement of his Piano Concerto.
Also, I thought the ending was very Schnittke-like. Insanity building up to an explosion followed by a very quiet fade out over a low bass.
Didn't Elliot Carter also do this, but much earlier than Ligeti?
Carter didn't give it a fancy cool name, but the feel of these overlapping tempi is abundant in his music. Just look at his String Quartets
I don't know much about Carter (I remember distinctly not getting his double concerto back in uni days). I suppose a key difference could be that Ligeti's simultaneous tempi all share a common denominator, i.e the semiquaver pulse. Don't know if that's a feature of Carter's quartets...?
@@FrederickViner
Yes, the common denominator also occurs in his work. In one of his quartets he does exactly the same thing as here: the violin only playing in 5x16th rhythm, violin 2 only in triplet quartet notes, viola in quartet notes, and cello in a 3x16th notes rhythm. I don’t remember the exact configuration, but that was the rhythmic idea. It wasn’t a fugue but each instrument had their own rhythmic plane it operated on
@@FrederickViner
Amazing piece but the way, really colorful and immediately attention grabbing.
I love your engraving style too, it looks like it was done in Sibelius, I assume? I have Sibelius too but my scores never look this good, and there are so little resources or tutorials out there contemporary music engraving 😭
If you could share with me like an empty Sibelius file you use, as a template, would be so amazing!
@@FreakieFan I'll have to revisit Carter!
And thanks for the kind words. It is indeed Sibelius. If you send me an email (address under channel details), I'd be happy to chat formatting!
@@FrederickViner
Thank you so much! That would be great.
Sending you a mail right now.
5:11 is giving twilight zone
4:11 didn't also chopin do the same thing in the fourth ballade
great vid!!!
Thanks! So glad you enjoyed it
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art."
It looks like a kid bumping into a piano. Why exaggerate the complexity if the piece is not audible? If you want to know whether a "classical" piece is good or awful, in that kind of case, simply try counting the number of "fff" and "ppp" on one sheet.
'if the piece is not audible'? Try turning up your speakers.
And this isn't a 'classical' piece (ie in the style of the classical period) so I suppose your nonsensical dynamics theory doesn't apply.
@@FrederickViner Take any virtual piano and stumble on it; it's almost the same stuff. The difference is that you organize what notes the kid will bump into. It can be a good experience, for sure. But the last thing this is, is listenable.
@@MchwarzTell me you don’t understand the composer’s intentions without telling me you don’t understand the composer’s intentions
@@kgroveringer03 A lot of "intentions" doesn't matter since it sounds like scattered notes with no destination and without a good structure (like in music). This may demonstrate a deep understanding of theory, but it lacks a stable rhythm and a good melody. That's my opinion, so screw it.
Maybe think twice before announcing your tone deafness to the world. If you really can't hear the difference between my piece (which consists of a highly conspicuous tune, among other obvious features) and 'a kid bumping into a piano' then you clearly weren't listening/don't have the ability to listen.
Wonderful stuff! Really in love with your use of dissonance and register.
Thank you! It was a conscious decision to use the entire keyboard - the same with Etude 4: toccata as well (which ends on a bottom A). Do you have any favourite piano etudes?
@@FrederickViner Well, I'd be lying if I didn't say Liszt's "La Campanella" wasn't in my top 10 - but a set that's been captivating me as of late is Kapustin's 8 Concert Etudes. Such rich harmony and rhythm!