I'm a 58 year old mechanical engineer. My wife and I are building our home on the North Umpqua River here in Oregon. I've done remodeling before, but this is the first home where I am the owner/builder. I really am loving your channel and the practical building ideas. You are a very good teacher. Keep up the good work!
@19:57 Thanks, you just gave me an actual useful tip with the locking mechanism on all tape measures that nobody ever uses on a job site because "it takes too long to use" when it comes to scribing a line! Now I think I know what Stanley's intent was when they came out with their PowerLock tape ages ago, not for laying out studs, but for this very specific scenario here.
Traditionally balloon framing uses a ribbon board that is let it to the full length stud. Then the floor joist sits on the ribbon and is nailed to the stud. In this application you are relying on the shear strength of the SDS screw. I’m sure it’s fine but I like a continuous load path to the foundation.
Whenever I use my nail gun like a hammer, I can hear my old boss saying, "that's a very expensive hammer." Sadly, my Martinez hammer is more expensive than my nail gun so I just swing away.
Those are more expensive than a nail gun? What is it, a harbor freight nail gun? Low key, I do hear harbor freight carries some decent pneumatic nailers though.
@@siriosstar4789 I’d be interested to see what country your writing from. There are 330 million people in America and for many people here, “good enough” is all they can afford. There are & will always be levels to anything in life and that also goes to construction as well!
i'm not comparing countries and doing so would not change the price first attitude in America . it come from two directions - 1- the builders and engineers with their good enough story . 2- the consumer with their price first , everything else second . The historical aspect explains a lot when the country was new ( invaded ) there was seemingly unlimited space and resources and people were mobil always moving to greater and cheaper land and more abundant resources . this vagabond type history is still in the collective awareness of the people . what's missing is the cheap space, abundant and cheap resources etc..but the "dream " continues . People could decide for higher quality in terms of building for the next generation but they don't . Europe is a good example because they ran out of space centuries ago and people stopped migrating . houses are built in Europe with the idea of being passed on to their family who will also live there . so quality comes first price second .
The IRC says to fireblock at ceiling and floor levels. It would be great to only do one set of blocks like you do. I don't know if it really passes if you skip blocking at the ceiling. Clearly the pasage into the floor framing is blocked.
I’m a carpenter for 20 years and I’m loving your videos, I only discovered your channel today and I’ve spent all afternoon watching your videos, our building regulations are different here in England, a lot of houses are bricks and mortar, but Timber frame is starting to became more popular! Please do a video detailing your router set up for cutting the sheathing, I need that in my life, genius idea! Keep up the good work I’m of to watch some more videos 👌🏻👌🏻 top work guys
Sometimes it's done because it's something the new guy can do without much supervision. A lot of times, lumber isn't a consistent dimension so nailing it in place where the top planes perfectly so there's no bumps in the floor at a beam or ledger then adding the hanger afterwards creates a flatter floor.
Make sure to put in fire blocking because balloon framing lets the fire go right to the top and all through the house so make sure you have fire blocking
Please correct me here as I'm a genuine rookie with framing but I thought the 2nd floor rim ledger board only served to support the ends of the floor joists as they continued on and nailed or bolted horizontally with the vertical studs? In times of lore the rim ledger was notched into the vertical studs but they were 20-30 foot old growth 2 x 4's that were really 2 inches by 4 inches. They were often milled on site and not the scrap wood that Lowes or Home Depot sells nowadays. This is one of the reasons balloon framing is so much stronger than platform construction but many will argue. The fire blocking would go underneath the rim ledger preventing flame propagation up the wall. Just curious is all, great job, I wish I had your knowledge and skill !! Well don Sir, Well Done!!
Interesting balloon framing. I need to do this on a project soon vs adding a 3 ft knee walls. Seems like there are alot of different ways to do this and code isn't very illustrative how they want you to do it since everything is descriptive of platform framing. What made you decide on 3 structural screws vs kerfing a notch for the ledger and nails? Time?
What do you do to stop the fire from running up between the walls? They stopped balloon framing in 1930s or so because of house fires. The fire starting in the lower level traveled up the interior walls and quickly grew because there was no board between the stud walls to slow it down.
My house was built in the late 1800s and its balloon framed. I haven't torn into any of the ceilings yet, so I don't know how the second floor is attached to the walls. the studs run from the 6x6 sill on the foundation to a plate under the rafters on the eve side and to the underside of the gable rafters. There is a lot of that construction here in Maine and New England, I guess. I'm in my 47th year building and remodeling and I have seen a lot.
Cool to see different ways of doing things. I was curious about a couple of aspects: 1) what were the benefits to balloon framing with this build? Was there something unique about the great walls that this made it easier? 2) with the gaps behind the floor joists that allow for continuous insulation, how is fire blocking addressed?
@@iancormie9916 can’t speak to that, but I thought it was commonly accepted. It’s having a cavity that is dangerous. When you fill it with non-flammable or flame resistant fiberglass, mineral wool, treated cellulose, you basically eliminate the problem. Old balloon walls with nothing in them or with a little newspaper were basically chimneys that drew heat and gases upward.
It could be engineered that way but we need solid backing for nailing the floor sheathing as a diaphragm. If we framed it like you asked, we'd have to add a lot of blocking. That would potentially increase the likelihood of squeaks in the floor.
I built a house a number of years ago that was built over the water, the tide came and went every 12 hours. I used I joists and Advantech. the house was open for 2 months in wet conditions here on the coast of Maine and we had no issues. I used PL glue and nailed the Advantech with ring shank nails and to this day there are no squeaks or bulges. For those who are wondering how you can build that close to the ocean, it was a replacement building. And yes, the tide comes and goes right up under the house.
You could in theory. Engineers wouldn't like it though. No good way to hanger/nail floor joists. You also wouldn't have support/nailing around the perimeter for your floor decking.
Plus the ledger insures that the decking will be level and even, and adds strength to the wall. With ledgerlok you will get some variation even with a line struck on the studs for setting each joist.
Nope, same interior walls would be bearing. The only change here is going from bearing on walls at the perimeter to ledgers. Nothing changes on the interior.
Dont think I would use that floor system or OSB wall studs. Guess I am just old school ,but also have seen so much of that OSB from water damage. Bathtubs, toilets, sinks and showers. Plus it doesn't have near the burn time. Take engineered floor joists they only have 30% burn time as a 2×12
They aren't OSB studs. They are LSL www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/engineered-lumber/timberstrand-lsl/timberstrand-lsl-framing-lumber/timberstrand-lsl-wall-framing-studs/
please leave the whistling out, for those of us with sensory issues, its *%^%ing painful. am i seeing things, or are those studs made out of osb?! are those 2x10 or 2x8 joists you are hanging? why no hangers?
There is a huge difference between "can" and not doing it. Of course we can, but our safety rules make it not worth it anymore. BTdubbs, its joist, not joice.
I CAN'T FIND ANY structural engineering tables for post frame construction 2nd floor rim/leger boards. lots of videos but none of them help me learn PLF loads and designing. I took architecture for 3 semesters and can't find any info. i want to build a home 18' high walls and a 2nd floor. post frame q 8' sonoposts. 40' x 60'. 2 mezzanines above each end 20'x40'. 2 extra or 1 extra pier in middle to support rim board then run the TJI's 20' from inside to the gable end walls where a leger/rim board is WHAT???? just mechanically fastened like crazy to each pier's column? gable ends best cause side walls support roof. I calculate side walls to be carrying 286# per linear foot and the mezzanine if it were to hold a total of 40k # (50# Live and dead load per foot...is 1000lbs per 20' TJI). so what rim board would I use at the gable walls that have piers 8' apart. 4ply 2x6 columns hold 13,000 pounds each unbraced...so... no worries i'll get an engineer to check first..i'm trying to learn
I thought balloon framing was illegal due to fire hazard... In any case my house built in the 1920's is balloon framed. They notched a 2x6 into the framing members and used it as a ledger, then all floor joists attached to the studs. The 2x8's they used are hemlock and over 24' long, stretching from one wall to the other with a load bearing 2x4 wall in the middle.
I'm a 58 year old mechanical engineer. My wife and I are building our home on the North Umpqua River here in Oregon. I've done remodeling before, but this is the first home where I am the owner/builder. I really am loving your channel and the practical building ideas. You are a very good teacher. Keep up the good work!
Is essential craftsman your neighbor?👍📐🔨✌
@@charlesviner1565 We live in the same town. His mom gave some of my kids piano lessons.
@@Chrissers2010 very cool, love his channel, good luck on your project ✌👍📐🔨
Hey Jim, that is a beautiful area. We spend time in Bend and Sunriver almost every summer. Love Oregon.
@@Chrissers2010Bro, no way, that's awesome!
@19:57 Thanks, you just gave me an actual useful tip with the locking mechanism on all tape measures that nobody ever uses on a job site because "it takes too long to use" when it comes to scribing a line! Now I think I know what Stanley's intent was when they came out with their PowerLock tape ages ago, not for laying out studs, but for this very specific scenario here.
Traditionally balloon framing uses a ribbon board that is let it to the full length stud. Then the floor joist sits on the ribbon and is nailed to the stud. In this application you are relying on the shear strength of the SDS screw. I’m sure it’s fine but I like a continuous load path to the foundation.
You do a superb job with all the vids and the channel is a BIG delight. thanks for doing this extra work to make them
Whenever I use my nail gun like a hammer, I can hear my old boss saying, "that's a very expensive hammer." Sadly, my Martinez hammer is more expensive than my nail gun so I just swing away.
Those are more expensive than a nail gun? What is it, a harbor freight nail gun? Low key, I do hear harbor freight carries some decent pneumatic nailers though.
Nice to see good old framing...
Thank you for saying it’s “way stronger than it needs to be”! I was thinking the exact same!
I really hate the American "Good enough " attitude in construction .
American minimal engineering as opposed to last forever engineering .
@@siriosstar4789 I’d be interested to see what country your writing from. There are 330 million people in America and for many people here, “good enough” is all they can afford. There are & will always be levels to anything in life and that also goes to construction as well!
i'm not comparing countries and doing so would not change the price first attitude in America .
it come from two directions -
1- the builders and engineers with their good enough story .
2- the consumer with their price first , everything else second .
The historical aspect explains a lot
when the country was new ( invaded ) there was seemingly unlimited space and resources and people were mobil always moving to greater and cheaper land and more abundant resources . this vagabond type history is still in the collective awareness of the people .
what's missing is the cheap space, abundant and cheap resources etc..but the "dream " continues .
People could decide for higher quality in terms of building for the next generation but they don't .
Europe is a good example because they ran out of space centuries ago and people stopped migrating . houses are built in Europe with the idea of being passed on to their family who will also live there . so quality comes first price second .
The IRC says to fireblock at ceiling and floor levels. It would be great to only do one set of blocks like you do. I don't know if it really passes if you skip blocking at the ceiling. Clearly the pasage into the floor framing is blocked.
As always... Absolutely Awesome 🥳🥳🥳
You’re the man I love watching your videos gotta make more
Thanks Tim…… and we ALL love you. What about a dust mask? I’m just saying…
I’m a carpenter for 20 years and I’m loving your videos, I only discovered your channel today and I’ve spent all afternoon watching your videos, our building regulations are different here in England, a lot of houses are bricks and mortar, but Timber frame is starting to became more popular!
Please do a video detailing your router set up for cutting the sheathing, I need that in my life, genius idea! Keep up the good work I’m of to watch some more videos 👌🏻👌🏻 top work guys
I think you mentioned metal hangers for fastening the joists to the ledger board come later? Why not put them on first and slide the joists into them?
Sometimes it's done because it's something the new guy can do without much supervision.
A lot of times, lumber isn't a consistent dimension so nailing it in place where the top planes perfectly so there's no bumps in the floor at a beam or ledger then adding the hanger afterwards creates a flatter floor.
Wouldn't you save on nails
Make sure to put in fire blocking because balloon framing lets the fire go right to the top and all through the house so make sure you have fire blocking
Do you not install fire blocking at the floor diaphragm?
The 4x6 is the fire blocking, none is neede in the floor system. We do install blocking bearing walls, so it actually ends up fire stopped
Please correct me here as I'm a genuine rookie with framing but I thought the 2nd floor rim ledger board only served to support the ends of the floor joists as they continued on and nailed or bolted horizontally with the vertical studs? In times of lore the rim ledger was notched into the vertical studs but they were 20-30 foot old growth 2 x 4's that were really 2 inches by 4 inches. They were often milled on site and not the scrap wood that Lowes or Home Depot sells nowadays. This is one of the reasons balloon framing is so much stronger than platform construction but many will argue. The fire blocking would go underneath the rim ledger preventing flame propagation up the wall. Just curious is all, great job, I wish I had your knowledge and skill !! Well don Sir, Well Done!!
Say you have a fire damaged balloon framed home and you want to sister everything and platform frame the exterior walls would that work
Why 2x10 and not i joists?
Thanks just wondering.
Because the spans are short that we can save some money with no loss in performance.
@@AwesomeFramers
Exactly
How much rain get on the zip panels not taped before they get ruined.?
Interesting balloon framing. I need to do this on a project soon vs adding a 3 ft knee walls. Seems like there are alot of different ways to do this and code isn't very illustrative how they want you to do it since everything is descriptive of platform framing. What made you decide on 3 structural screws vs kerfing a notch for the ledger and nails? Time?
God, I love my 40v makita rear handle 😍
What do you do to stop the fire from running up between the walls? They stopped balloon framing in 1930s or so because of house fires. The fire starting in the lower level traveled up the interior walls and quickly grew because there was no board between the stud walls to slow it down.
Notice the blocking there? It's 4x6 👍 problem solved
I can't believe you're still framing... GETER DONE..
My house was built in the late 1800s and its balloon framed. I haven't torn into any of the ceilings yet, so I don't know how the second floor is attached to the walls. the studs run from the 6x6 sill on the foundation to a plate under the rafters on the eve side and to the underside of the gable rafters. There is a lot of that construction here in Maine and New England, I guess. I'm in my 47th year building and remodeling and I have seen a lot.
If you like balloon frame you'd love post framed buildings.
I'm curious why the balloon framing? Was it to save time for you guys building the walls?
Do you use hangers on your joists?
it is a code violation for not using hangers I think.
After raving about the lightweight Metabo circular saw I was surprised to see you using the Makita. Any particular reason for using the Makita?
yep, we have 2 Metabo HPT saws and 3 guys. Just simple math 🙂
yayyy i love his vids
Cool to see different ways of doing things. I was curious about a couple of aspects:
1) what were the benefits to balloon framing with this build? Was there something unique about the great walls that this made it easier?
2) with the gaps behind the floor joists that allow for continuous insulation, how is fire blocking addressed?
Amateur who is researching this speaking … insulation serves as fire blocking.
@@GodsProvidence do the codes agree in all areas?
@@iancormie9916 can’t speak to that, but I thought it was commonly accepted. It’s having a cavity that is dangerous. When you fill it with non-flammable or flame resistant fiberglass, mineral wool, treated cellulose, you basically eliminate the problem. Old balloon walls with nothing in them or with a little newspaper were basically chimneys that drew heat and gases upward.
Why do the sill plate instead of just running the floor joists into the wall cavity and nailing them to the face of the stud?
It could be engineered that way but we need solid backing for nailing the floor sheathing as a diaphragm. If we framed it like you asked, we'd have to add a lot of blocking. That would potentially increase the likelihood of squeaks in the floor.
Do you screw the subfloor before floor finishes even if you screw when installing the subfloor?
Mostly yes. I tried to get away from that by screwing them down at the time of install, but after wet and snow, we figured its best to do it again.
Is that green bored better than your osb in weather like rain or snow... does it not swell or splinter up...
Don't you need joist hangers or do they let you get by with just nailing thise floor joists
Yes joist hangers are needed. I thought I stated in the video those were going to be added later, but I probably forgot.
@@AwesomeFramers No you mentioned it.
How much cheaper is the LSL vs like, traditional lumber?
It's not cheaper. But it is straight and strong so used in limited areas where you really want that strength.
Learnt a lot from your channel so thanks. One question, how long can a frame get wet for before it starts compromising the osb and other timber ?
I built a house a number of years ago that was built over the water, the tide came and went every 12 hours. I used I joists and Advantech. the house was open for 2 months in wet conditions here on the coast of Maine and we had no issues. I used PL glue and nailed the Advantech with ring shank nails and to this day there are no squeaks or bulges.
For those who are wondering how you can build that close to the ocean, it was a replacement building. And yes, the tide comes and goes right up under the house.
@@royordway9157 ayuh
... but OJ glove didn't fit . 🤔
Awesome work man. I’m planning on building our house and have an honest question. Why ballon framing when there is a platform?
I should have explained it better. Basically its to significantly reduce ladder work on the exterior walls.
@@AwesomeFramers I like that…work smarter..thanks for the response brother
Out of curiosity, since you run all of your framing 2’ oc, can you ledgerlok your joists to studs and get rid of the ledger board?
You could in theory. Engineers wouldn't like it though. No good way to hanger/nail floor joists. You also wouldn't have support/nailing around the perimeter for your floor decking.
In other words.. it's not as strong
Its possible but I don't know that I see the advantage of that, plus we need our floor diaphragm to have continuous nailing for the edges.
Plus the ledger insures that the decking will be level and even, and adds strength to the wall. With ledgerlok you will get some variation even with a line struck on the studs for setting each joist.
Love the vid! Do you think its stronger to ballonframe vs the traditional way?
Stronger in what way? I don't think it matters when there is a a floor.
So with a balloon framed house are all of the interior first floor walls structural?
I would think it would be no different than platform framing. Some walls are bearing and some are just partitions.
Nope, same interior walls would be bearing. The only change here is going from bearing on walls at the perimeter to ledgers. Nothing changes on the interior.
Has anyone ever told Mark that his voice is a dead ringer for Dax Shepard? Almost looks like him too.
Thanks you crack me up every video at some point great content also
Лайк за makita 40V. 😁
Awesome, framers!
Dont think I would use that floor system or OSB wall studs. Guess I am just old school ,but also have seen so much of that OSB from water damage. Bathtubs, toilets, sinks and showers. Plus it doesn't have near the burn time. Take engineered floor joists they only have 30% burn time as a 2×12
Advantech subfloor isn't like regular OSB. It's not waterproof, but I consider it far superior to commodity OSB or even plywood subfloor.
They aren't OSB studs. They are LSL www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/engineered-lumber/timberstrand-lsl/timberstrand-lsl-framing-lumber/timberstrand-lsl-wall-framing-studs/
please leave the whistling out, for those of us with sensory issues, its *%^%ing painful. am i seeing things, or are those studs made out of osb?! are those 2x10 or 2x8 joists you are hanging? why no hangers?
In London we just glue that floor with this floor bottle glue. Only 2 nails per sheet, they dont want nothing else.. glue holds it all ..
That doesn't meet our structural code. Glue doesn't provide the diaphragm strength without the nails.
Your advantech looks so much flatter than the batch I just got :(
🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨
Neither both of you can stand on the plates and Joice ?
There is a huge difference between "can" and not doing it. Of course we can, but our safety rules make it not worth it anymore. BTdubbs, its joist, not joice.
@@AwesomeFramers your right big difference. It’ll be more faster standing on the plates. Anyways you guys are great carpenters.
@@adrielmontiel1887 yeah, it is faster, but that's not the point anymore. Safety is more important that speed.
Thanks!!
I CAN'T FIND ANY structural engineering tables for post frame construction 2nd floor rim/leger boards. lots of videos but none of them help me learn PLF loads and designing. I took architecture for 3 semesters and can't find any info. i want to build a home 18' high walls and a 2nd floor. post frame q 8' sonoposts. 40' x 60'. 2 mezzanines above each end 20'x40'. 2 extra or 1 extra pier in middle to support rim board then run the TJI's 20' from inside to the gable end walls where a leger/rim board is WHAT???? just mechanically fastened like crazy to each pier's column? gable ends best cause side walls support roof. I calculate side walls to be carrying 286# per linear foot and the mezzanine if it were to hold a total of 40k # (50# Live and dead load per foot...is 1000lbs per 20' TJI). so what rim board would I use at the gable walls that have piers 8' apart. 4ply 2x6 columns hold 13,000 pounds each unbraced...so... no worries i'll get an engineer to check first..i'm trying to learn
Higher an engineer, architects and framers aren't qualified for engineering.
3 legged latter or 4 legged latter?.... Go!
3 legged are more stable.
@@AwesomeFramers Ladder?
I thought balloon framing was illegal due to fire hazard... In any case my house built in the 1920's is balloon framed. They notched a 2x6 into the framing members and used it as a ledger, then all floor joists attached to the studs. The 2x8's they used are hemlock and over 24' long, stretching from one wall to the other with a load bearing 2x4 wall in the middle.
They have multiple firestops built in with their blocking for sheathing
So there are no continuous chases, which allows this practice
The IRC calls for blocking every 10'. It just so happens that the top plates provide that when platform framing, but ballonn is perfectly acceptable.
So Essential Craftsman is your Dad.
Is that true?
@@scottbertrand2057 i just realized they are both from the pacific northwest and you look alike, and you honestly seem like the child of that man
4 nails on each side for the joist, bad engineering.