Sweet Baby Inc has done some small projects on their own, including a game called Recommendation Dog where you play as a dog with a rolodex who assigns contractors to people. I just thought everyone should know that because it's the cutest shit ever. Theres a dedicated button to just bark for no reason.
I'm so happy you're calling out the fake gamer bro outrage. Honestly, it quite pathetic how these dudes who have representation in 9999999.9% of games get their panties in the twist with mere utterances of diversity. And i love how these gamerstm tried to attribute the state of the industry to sweet baby as if ppl didnt know the issues with the industry before theyre were even created. Again thank you.
Only "gamers" could watch this video and think it's sensational. GamerGate has had a grip on their balls for over a decade and they like it too much to accept reality.
Wow, what a very straightforward and normal discussion about this situation. I'm sure it'll get a lot of likes and the comments section will be filled with thoughtful insight on --- oh. Oh no.
Oh man, I know this video is six months old at this point but I only found your channel today and THANK YOU. I've been baffled by this situation for months now and this is the only video that actually explains what happened with facts! So it's literally people who just hate diversity mad that the game equivalent of sensitivity readers exist and then trying to pretend they're not inviting harassment when they clearly were? Ugh. Also, can I just say that this is scarily similar to a controversy that just happened the other day with the open-source game engine Godot? Like, eerily similar, where the engine's socials made a joke about how anti-woke crusaders were calling game engines woke and the joke was like, "Oh engines are woke now? Well, we're proud to be that then!" and then there was a firestorm of harassment and "just asking questions" people in the replies, and people saying they shouldn't make "political" comments (even though the team behind the engine has always been political), and then when the team started banning people for "harassment," everybody turned around and claimed the bans were all wrongful even though it was almost all blatant dog whistling and plausible deniability. And if even one ban was wrongful, that's like, enough of a mistake for people who would hate diversity anyway to denounce Godot.
A conspiracy would be people talking in secret to commit a crime. These people speak openly in conferences and change laws to make their behavior okay.
well now you're talking about the Canadian government, are you claiming SBI has control over the Canadian government? I'm going to need some proof of that.
you conveniently left out the part where the company uses scare tactics if the consulted don't agree and they said this out loud. and why yes, once something becomes suspicious you indeed should check their background no matter how old it is. a thing many cancellers like to do when checking years old tweets for dirt look, there is a way to include more people naturally in game making process, but this is not the way. first carrot, not the stick
You're being disingenuous, she was talking about "showing the marketing team what happens when you leave something racist or offensive in your game" not, like, threatening them in an alley.
@@KyletheScottidk what exactly they are "showing what happens" but in japan there are games and media that are doing well with either distasteful stereotypes or all white main cast for example. doesn't seem to bother them so why is it such a problem in the west?
Haven''t managed to finish the whole video, but is Legobutts mentioned in any part whatsoever? Because If it isn't, it'd speak volumes of what this is trying to spread.
@@KyletheScott You really didn't answer the question in hand. Chris Kindred, ironically, went after a minority like Kabrutus, a Brazillian player, on a hate campaign to get his steam account removed, alongside all the money they spent on it. How do you find this right in any way shape or form?
@@KyletheScott She literally said, "Have a coffee with your marketing team and terrify them if they dont give you what you want," that is not showing the team what happens when you leave something "offensive," it is blatant fear tactics. You are misusing her words.
Actually forget my earlier comment. I just realised on rewatch that I _do_ have something to comment here. Not about the overall topic of the video, but specifically about Sable, a game I have only heard of because of your introduction to it at the beginning of this video. It reminds me quite a bit of a classic greentext story called "Why the elves wear masks", about a fantasy world someone created where elves are very secretive and all wear masks. Like in Sable, their masks represent something about themselves. It's a really good story and I would link it if YT's filters wouldn't block that, but I recommend seeking it out.
It is a free market, people are free to boycott products regardless of their reasons why You are free to boycott any game by EA, and create a curator on Steam, to do so if you wish. It could be simply because you do not like an individual worker there, it could be because you think their games are rubbish, it doesn't matter. A free market means we have choice, and we can choose to boycott games. Stating that "Oh no, they're harassing us" while both sides of the argument have been doing that is a non-answer.
To truly illuminate a situation or raise awareness, one must grasp the full scope of that situation, which requires a thorough understanding and an open-minded examination of ALL perspectives involved especially the counterarguments.
I’ve been on the dark side of Twitter, this has been increasingly annoying. Some have really made hating the company their entire personality. Glad to hear your take and facts on this. Love hearing your voice!
People on both sides of the issue are guilty of sensationalizing and making a bogeyman out of the opposing side. But the behavior of employees of SBI is truly reprehensible and is “a bad look” for them. I can’t believe that “progressive” thinkers and workers honestly think that “gamers” hate seeing people of color and/or LGBTQ characters in their games. Sure, there are some people who are actually racist, misogynistic, or whatever, but by and large “gamers” don’t have a problem with diversity in games, what they have a problem with is paying for premium products just to be lectured to in what are almost always worse products overall. And I think you downplayed a lot of the criticism of Suicide Squad. I think it has at least as much to do with the narrative as it does the live service structure. And it’s interesting to note that SBI employees have major writing credits in the game that go beyond NPC barks and in-game ads. So it’s odd that they’re saying they came in at the end and had minimal involvement. If that is true, then why the significant writing credits? And I think it’s misleading to paint Kabrutus as some kind of “internet savvy” mastermind. The intention was clear - to create a tool to easily see whether SBI is involved in a given title without having to reference another source. For people who - like him, myself, and now over a quarter of a million other people - want to avoid them. That isn’t inciting harassment. Informing people isn’t a hate crime, whether he likes SBI or not. The reason to avoid SBI is due to the opinion that their work is lackluster, to put it mildly. It has nothing to do with hating “people who don’t look like us”. If you make or contribute to a product as a business that a group of customers don’t want, it’s not the customers’ fault for not wanting it. If you actually believe in your work, then there’s no problem. There should be plenty of others who do want it. Also interesting that you didn’t read any tweets from Chris Kindred, Alyssa Mercante, Carolyn Petit, or Felix. Because they paint a bit of a different picture. ESG ratings and “the woke agenda” are great ideas in theory, in my opinion anyway. The issue isn’t the intention, it’s in the execution. I think this is an extremely poor attempt to look at this objectively, if that was your intention. That being said, I do believe your intention is good and I appreciate you putting your take out there. If diversity, equality, and inclusion are honestly what we want, then we need to be able to have open and honest conversations without dehumanizing the other side and crying about “micro aggressions” and hiding behind our fragility. There is a pattern of advocates and defenders of SBI and other similar companies to shut out and block any critics and detractors. Are there a lot of actual trolls? Sure. On both sides.
Can you give an example of SBI behavior that's "truly reprehensible"? While you're at it can you also give me an example of a lecture in one of the games SBI has been involved with? I can find you several high profile reviews of Suicide Squad which list the story as one of the few positives of the game. I can find you none that are fans of the live service elements. but even if you're right, Sweet Baby still don't have significant writing credits. People appear to be confused because Kim Belair's credit is "Writer & team lead" but she's not the lead writer on the game, Ben Schroder, who works at Rocksteady, is. Kim is credited as the head writer of the Sweet Baby Inc. team, not of the game. I showed in the video Kabrutus crafting the language to be more vague to deliberately obscure what the group was really for. The group has shutdown all discussions because too many people where being bigoted, Kabrutus is now asking his followers to stop Harassing people because they keep doing it, he has to ask them on the group because he knows that's where all the harassers are congregating. What's your conclusion to all of these facts? I didn't read any SBI tweets because they're irrelevant to the conversation about what the company does and the conspiracy theories about ESG. But please explain to me this "different picture" that I've missed.
@@KyletheScottI think you’re being deliberately disingenuous dude literally no one liked the story of Suicide Squad, and the tweets are all freely available. They’re pretty awful. Your claims that the original group admin had some more nebulously sinister intention lacks evidence.
Methinks that some of the people who have commented on your video “protest too much”. Keep up the great job you’re doing, Kyle. Again, a well thought out and presented video essay.
Whenever I hear someone complain about "woke" corporations, I remind that no corporation is "woke" because they all only care about profit. They're just appealing to a wider audience and don't believe what they're saying. But I always get yelled back that I'm wrong and don't know anything. But I still appreciate you for telling me about this. I've seen SBI and ESG score pop up now and then in game reviews and deliberately tried not to look up what it was all about. The only gripe I have about "woke" games is that now some developers regularly choose fairly lackluster designs and generic character models, sacrificing style on the alter of realism. And I genuinely worry about feeling just that since I don't want to get mixed in with the "gamer" crowd.
oh I'm with you, Realism is so stale. I wish more Triple A games where willing to go all in on an artstyle because it looks incredible whenever they do. Like with Star Wars, why are all the Star Wars games just realistic looking? Make a game in the Clone Wars art style! it would look incredible!
Ultimately it is their actions that tell me to avoid Sweet Baby Inc. Upon seeing a group that says "Hey, we don't like Sweet Baby Inc, these are games they were involved with and you shouldn't buy them", why didn't they just say ok, and let it go. Or even make a blog post that says these people don't like us, but we stand by our work. Instead they try to take it down and even go after the personal property of the people involved. That tells me that whatever they are doing, it is some shady stuff and I don't want to get involved. The fact that all the games on that list look like trash to me, is just confirmation that avoiding them is probably best. And this is _my_ tastes I'm talking about, I think having a story is _detrimental_ to a game. And I don't think they are personally responsible for everything bad in Suicide Squad et al. I hope no one actually does, but there are stupid people out there. Instead I think that if the game was good, they wouldn't have hired Sweet Baby Inc in the first place. They are a symptom, not the disease. Also, incidentally, there are no diverse persons. 24:14 I think I know what you meant, but I'm not sure. It is generally better if you say what you mean.
@@Swiftduck00Not true actually. Neo Cab and Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew most notably have good reviews. Assassin's Creed Valhalla has Mostly Positive, I played it and don't see how, but it's a democracy. Gotham Knights and Kingdom Eighties too. The rest is Mixed and unreleased. None of them actually have mostly negative or worse. Not even if you don't exclude the latest time, which I obviously did due to the review bombing.
I don't think you are fully aware of the scale of the issue here. This isn't only a english speaking anger at SBI. This is international.. So there are multiple controversies outside of the english speaking world here, completely unrelated to this ESG/DEI funding stuff. 1. The Spanish translation of Spiderman 2, continuation of the latinx saga. 2. The slander against Japanese and Korean game companies. 3. Attack on minor developers from other cultures. Filipino, Bangladesh, Czech republic. 4. US twitters idiots shitting on Akira Toriyama (even before the body was cold, and the family+friends had a chance to grief). These are the things that some might call "American cultural Imperialism". First example is the Spiderman 2 gender neutral Spanish. Mangling the entire grammar system of a language and telling Spanish speakers around the world that they were biggots for disagreeing with that. This is a monumental "shoot yourself in the foot" moment, and has burned a lot of goodwill by many consumers. The slander against Japanese and Korean devs for making beautiful women, and in many cases calling them lolicon (I can't write the english word here, but it is something like the Edo era with a P in front of it). This is especially bad as both Korea and Japan is looking to the US market for sales. The attack on smaller developers from around the world for non-diverse representations of their own cultures, does really hit hard it the enthusiast communities, as a joy of sharing your own culture gets replaced with the bitterness of a cultural clash. Honestly people are tired of AAA companies deliberately mangling foreign cultures to fit to their own agenda. Whether it is the Nordic (former viking) cultures with a race swap in the pantheon, making Cleopatra black campaign by Netflix, or just any historic series by the BBC (British network) these days. It is disgusting, not because of the race swaps, but the absolute indifference to foreign cultures these often represent. It is shitting on borrowed mythology and culture for pandering to internal groups in the US/UK. Sweet Baby inc was an easily identifiable target, and after the attempted cancellation of the guy who made the list on steam, this stuff kind of took off. If SBI didn't attack the guy, nobody would even have noticed the curator, now as of mid march 2024, it's over 280k now. They have been digging their own grave, by one of them going full idiot on twitter as well. People on the internet do a lot of stupid things, and getting the middle of a shit fight only makes you dirty and stinky. In a few weeks, this will probably die out, once it cycles out of the news. People will still check the list, and if the games are good, people will buy them anyways. Btw, I think the real reason that the Alan wake game is selling slow is because it was an Epic games launch, if it comes to steam, it will probably sell even more. However that is to be seen. People trust the developer, so I don't think the association with Sweet baby inc will hurt the sales.
1. I couldn't possibly speak to that, I don't speak Spanish and have no cultural context for the Latinx issue. I should point out though that Sweet Baby don't do translations? so that doesn't seem very relevant here. 2. Do you have examples of this? 3. Same question, do you have any specific examples? 4. "Shitting on" is strong words if we're talking about the same tweet here. I think it's perfectly understandable that a black person might have some mixed opinions on Toriyama's legacy and the black characters he created over the years.
@@KyletheScott 1. I do speak Spanish, but only as a second language, so I can only tell from the view of Mexican and Spanish friends, that they do not like it. I am aware that SBI is not a translation company, and translation/localization companies is a whole other issue, hence the recent mass firings on US market with regards to japanese cartoons. 2. An recent well known example was the "loli" controversy of the Cyperpunk cartoon by studio trigger. The recent controversy of body shaming the actress for the Stellar Blade game (several articles, but also direct involvement by some SBI staff) on X/Twitter. 3. Specific games with big controversies: Zero hour, Kingdom come: Deliverance (a lot of game in the mid-market). 4. This is a thing of "cultural misunderstandings". The character referenced is Mr. Popo, which isn't a black person but based on a jinn from hindu mythology. Dragonball lends from a lot of Chinese and Indian mythology. I hope this helps. I am not trying to start a controversy here, but just to explain why people outside the "Anglosphere" (english primarily spoken language). Find the takes from US gaming media and industry annoying and narrow minded. The sensitivity writing stuff does really rub people the wrong way, as this is how censorship is often sold in authoritarian regimes (USSR, DDR, Pinochet, China, Maduro, Putin regime, etc. etc.). It is something that maybe us non-anglo people are more alert to, as authoritarianism is a recent historic scar / active issue. While many grifter do exploit this recent controversy / blowing it up to unreasonable degrees, this is something that strikes a chord.
2. Alright just doing some quick reading, as far as I can tell on the Cyberpunk thing, this is about the character of Rebecca? I haven't watched the anime but just looking at the design I can see where the comments are coming from. I personally find loli stuff quite uncomfortable but that term wasn't applied to the character by critics, the studio themselves called her that. But it also seems like she's a widely popular character so...Idk it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. for the Stellar Blade thing, I'm going to need some clarification on what you're counting as "body shaming". Because I think regardless of country of origin, having a male game lead talk about the importance of attention paid you your female characters behind is a bit weird. 3. I can't find any particular controversy around the game Zero Hour (FPS by M7 Productions?) so either that's not what you're talking about or I need some clarification. The Kingdom Come thing seems to be in relation to some comments from the lead developer that their were no people of colour in the region at the time the game is set? A fact that is historically inaccurate. I've read 2 articles about it which seem pretty mundane, and then a whole lot of gamergate types rallying around the game because it triggers SJWs. I'm sure some people have claimed that the developer is racist because of this, but also the game sold very fell for a game by a smaller studio, so I don't see how this is a big issue. 4. I don't pretend to speak for black people or their thoughts on the character or other black characters in Dragon Ball, but even if it wasn't indented to be a minstrel design, that is very clearly what it looks like and I can't really blame anyone for reading it that way. Especially when you see the designs of other black characters in the show. Regardless of that, drawing attention to the controversial ways that Toriyama drew black characters is not "Shitting on him".
@@KyletheScott It is ok. We are probably at an impasse here. I don't think it is fruitful to continue arguing this stuff. It is probably a waste of time for us both. The major points I wanted to make about this Sweet baby inc (SBI) controversy, is that there are no clean hands here. While I agree that grifters are spinning their audiences in to a frenzy, there is also legitimate reasons to criticize the normalization of alteration/censorship of media to fit cultural sensitivities. You wouldn't paint over the Mona Lisa with a Niqab, because some people within a minority might find the image offensive. It is a dangerous slope to be on, and can be easily abused by authoritarians with ill intent. I don't see SBI as the major problem, just a symptom of a dangerous tendency. SBI are most likely middle men exploiting a niche, while some of their employees have said some vile stuff, they aren't the people who are in power. They are the bureaucrats between the artist and the audience.
Was there actually any evidence pointing out that the Steam group directed "harassment" towards SBI? All I see is just a small group that has a list of games that was also listed on the SBI website, which to be fair wouldn't be even in the limelight if it wasn't being strong-armed by SBI with greater influence but backfired spectacularly. People and Gamers who are outraged by this added the fact that some of their employees enjoy mudslinging white people and people they disagreed with, now have an avenue to vent their frustrations to, In which the Steam group does not have direct control over them or their actions?
The original source was Chris Kindreds now deleted tweets, I don't remember which Account I nabbed my copy from but at the time a whole bunch of accounts where posting the same screenshot to claim that they where targeted harassment. If you just search "Chris Kindred" on Twitted and scroll for a bit you can probably find the same Image I used.
Good to hear someone talking about this who hasn't drank the outrage koolaid. People getting this upset over a _consultancy company_ is so detached from reality it's completely absurd. "Oh, but they scare people they contact by telling them what refusing their surfaces could do!" Welcome to corporate business. It's kill or be killed. These people don't care about the decline of the games industry. They just want to be mad at a perceived out group. It's pathetic. Edit: Having now watched the whole thing, I'm definitely gonna keep this video in my back pocket if this conversation ever comes up again. it's basically all my thoughts wrapped up in 25 minutes. Great job. In retrospect saying these people just want to be mad at a perceived out group is a bit reductive. Instead, like you said, they're understandably angry about something but they're not directing it towards the right people/institutions. Partly out of a refusal to see the bigger picture, but also because of the sheer volume of nonsense being spread about the whole situation.
Sweet Baby is just the flourish while the real magic is done where nobody is looking. "Watch the coin closely" all the while the coin is gone, the hand is empty, & the audience is fooled into following the misdirection instead of the coin.
@@KyletheScott The terrible state of video games, particularly AAA. People blame the "boogeyman" when reality is much more nuanced. The awful stuff in games is widespread. SBI plays a role, but I think they are the scapegoat, happily sent to sacrifice to keep inquiring minds from searching deeper. My point is this basically. Allow SBI to take the heat so those people truly making decisions remain unknown. It's much like the political system in America. Politicians are the public figures yet lobbying groups hold more power in swaying public opinion, so a Senator takes the heat. So what? He's easily replaced...just like SBI "There's no need for formal conspiracies when all of these economic and political elites share the same ideology, which they learned from their environment growing up in similar positions of privilege within the dominant culture." - George Carlin
Alan Wake 2's release was received with abysmal sales. Spiderman 2 was criticized for its disastrous buggy mess on release and out of pace narrative, without mentioning the side mission where you literally vandalize the city as a deaf girl, beacause that suddenly makes things right. Also, the game had a $300M Budget, so it needs over 7 million sales to break even. As we speak, it's gotten around 10 million sales in 4 months, the first game did twice as good in half the time. Suicide Squad on release did as half as good as the Marvel Avengers game did, which is already a bad start, and it now sits with even less than a 1k players, and it took 9 years to develop, whilst the ENTIRE Arkham series released within that timeframe. Say what you want about the "toxic gamers", gamergate or bigotry, all these companies are funded with money their customers give on good faith. Once that faith runs out, things will break down, just like it did with Volition after Saints Row, and just like it did with Forspoken. People don't care about ideologies in the general gaming market. If you make a good game, people will defend you. These are not good games, and Sweet Baby Inc. does not abide by what the general market wants nor needs. Helldivers 2, despite its controversy with its fandom at the moment, is a clear example of why the market has been running stale, and how much the "gamers" crave for actual good content. I find this video to go in complete bad faith, and it's not us who need to do better, it's the people we give our money to. Go woke, go broke, it couldn't be simpler.
@@Swiftduck00 I didn't get to play it, but I didn't Even have to search for it's Bugs. Its also Sony's Golden egg, so it better be playable at the very least, but I don't think it'll go that well for it.
@@4Rys454 I can only speak to my own experience. I had about 4 instances of having to reload a checkpoint because a mission objective didn't activate, I got slingshotted to the stratosphere one time, and maybe a dozen or so enemies went braindead mid combat throughout the entire game. I played the minute it was available and binged it. I enjoyed the game for the most part, but just like the first one, I found myself skipping cutscenes and especially rolling my eyes non stop during the final mission. Solid 6/10 I have been avoiding discussion about newly released games over the last couple of years because a lot of it is mindless fanboy shit and people over hyping minor issues in order to shit on games simply because they aren't available on whatever console they chose to buy and stick with. I usually give em 3 or 4 months to cool down and exit the zeitgeist before I start looking at what people say.
@@Swiftduck00 respect. from personal experience, I've only been hyped with Elden Ring''s release back in the day, after that, no game has caught my eye since. And it's a shame to me see long established franchise such as the Arkham games be deconstructed to the point they are now with Suicide Squad game. I am aware that "Sweet Baby Inc" isn't the whole responsible for its failure, I personally see it as a writing on the wall to know how the game will go. I do not support the group and I will avoid the games they work on, but at least I consider my view the "logical" thing. Are there people devilizing it and claiming that its all their fault? For sure, but SBI ain't innocent at all. Anything on extremism is unhealthy. It's as simple as that. Thank you for taking the time for sharing your experience with Spiderman 2.
@@4Rys454 yeah every issue is infinitely more nuanced than any single person could ever comprehend. But we can't get lost in the woods looking at trees when we're trying to heal the whole forest. It's all important. Mainstream Games are so expensive to make these days, that the people controlling that money have to have a safe ROI or they don't want anything to do with it. This means follow the current marketing ideas and make sure your company is minding it's Ps and Qs in regards to presenting a socially acceptable front face. What I don't understand is why a lot of big budget games have art consultant and QA credits a mile long, but are obviously under tested as far as gameplay goes. Isn't it amazing how great Arkham Knight looks? That game is still one of the best looking games out there graphically and it's working on outdated technology and hardware. I can't say I know what's going on, but something is off. It's a shame because I love this hobby.nits my main passtime. I will say that I have made my first preorder in over 6 years with Dragon's Dogma 2. Haha, we will see how that goes. I find myself drawn more and more to Japanese developed games these days. Thanks for the nice discussions.
Just want i preface, some of your points are well thought out & argued. Mainly the stuff around black Rock, etc. However, calling it a conspiracy doesn't make it untrue. The ci@ created that term specifically as a psy-op to discredit anyone they wish merely by labeling. As George Carlin wisely stated, "There's no need for formal conspiracies when all of these economic and political elites share the same ideology, which they learned from their environment growing up in similar positions of privilege within the dominant culture." Black Rock, Vanguard, State Street, WEF, NATO, etc. all are lead by people who went to the same schools and lived their entire lives within the orbit of like minded folks, so if they want to enact some agenda, they just nod, wink, & go to work. The issue with ideas like those expressed at 22:00 mark isn't, "Well it's a black girl & I'm a white dude; therefore, it's crap." It is actually, "I'm playing ALAN WAKE 2 & now I'm suddenly spending half the game or more playing as some black girl." If they want to create a new character like her, go ahead & make a new IP or tie-in... you know like they did with Jesse Faden in Control! That game was amazing & I wouldn't have cared or noticed if it was a white girl, black, grey, pink, whatever cuz she was awesome & not replacing the namesake character of the game. Your line of defense & argumentation for Kim Belaire is bad faith & pure strawman fallacy. People hate these characters because they are bad characters, forced into places they don't belong (like pork being in a Jewish restaurant), & replace otherwise good characters with no explanation (Suicide Squad for insurance worth Deadshot... he just said, "Aren't you supposed to shut the heck up?" That's just terrible writing & gas lighting the audience for no good reason).
Opening your comment with "The CIA invented conspiracy theories to make me look like a crazy person" is such a power move. I'd respect it if it didn't...you know...make you look like a crazy person.
I was waiting for somebody to post a good video to battle disinformation about what this company does. A lot of these gamer types talk about how there's a difference between natural diversity and forced diversity but it seems to always come down to what they think is appropriate to show in fiction, which just turns so quickly into bigotry.
There have Been multiple examples of what You are asking, You are the one that refuses to see. A Black giantess in God of War... Which is thematically taking place on the norse mythology. Sidelining THE spiderman for another character because Miles is black meanwhile Peter geta conpletely shafted, thrown and sidelined in the story... Just because, while also downplaying him and making him completely toothless. Race swapping an already established character, justifying it with a supposed copycat who coincidentally shares all features with You. Deadshot from Suicide Squad. Race swapping ANOTHER character, who was already introduced and teased i'm previous games/spin offs. Alan Wake 2, Saga Anderson. This all is sad, because a diverse cast is something objectively good, but ALL of these examples are just diversity attempts bye latching off of other people's work instead of doing something from the groundup. What this is implying here with all this is that diverse works can't exist without something previously existing to latch onto. Which is truly saddening and pathetic. It's a shame You can't tell the difference
@@4Rys454 I agree with you and what really irks me is that Miles Morales is a pretty good character in itself and one of the best examples of diverse characters with great backstories with accompanying media created in modern times and could stand on his own game. I was flabbergasted why they sidelined Peter in his own game and people are diverting their frustrations to Miles among others, causing bad impressions and stigma around the character making Miles look bad down the road, tanking his popularity as a whole.
My heart goes out to the employees on the butt end of this harrassment campaign. Gamergate never really seems to die; much like an infectious disease it seems to slumber for periods at a time before exploding at the most random target every year or so, taking many in its wake. I hope eventually the "normies" catch on; I think they might, given the "fragile gamer" stereotype, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, I think I want to try Sable now. That looks like a game that'd satisfy an emotional itch.
Do you even know what Gamergate *was*? It was about gaming journos selling good reviews for favors. That's what kicked it off. Gamers weren't happy about games, but yet they kept getting positive critic scores. Also, sweet baby *started the harassment*. They were instigators who are crying victim now that people retaliated. This guy is full of shit
"There's a big movement of gamers rising up against gaming corporations!" "FUCK YEAH! What's it about? The sexual harrasment commited by ActiBlizz employers? The years of Konami and EA abusing thier employees in horrific ways? The Blatant and Toxic anti-consumerism?" "No, they're angy because a few games had some gay people in them." "...God DAMNIT!!"
This is disingenous at its core. EA, Konami and Actiblizz have always been on the "gamers" sights due to all the nefarious shit they do. This is not just "putting a chick in it, make her lame and gay", but rather how its messing with renowned and beloved IPs that people care about, especially after spending money for them. Why do you think Forspoken failed? It was woke, it was original, and nobody cared, so the studio shut down. But when you mess with someone else's work that has resonated with so many more people than something like Forspoken could ever achieve to do, then backlash is not just foreseeable, but a guarantee. And that's the whole core of the problem. These ideologies sink in like parasytes into other people's talent and work, because on their own, they would fall, crash, burn and be forgotten, just like Forspoken. But ay, I'm a bigot for thinking that, or I'm stupid and wrong. How ironic.
> sexual harrasment commited by ActiBlizz employers That is between the employers and employees; why would I care? > Konami and EA abusing thier employees in horrific ways Quit if you don't like your job; why would I care? > anti-consumerism Yeah, like companies trying to destroy peoples steam collection because they left a bad review.
Thanks Kyle, this was a good and interesting video. As usual I enjoy your take. Kim Belair's "picky baby" thing made me laugh out loud because it's so on point, so thanks for sharing that. For the record, investing firms like Blackrock have been gutting communities like mine for decades and I think ESG initiatives are a marketing tactic that do very little to mitigate those harms. The mob mentality here is like watching a car crash (exhibit A this comment section). Also as a fan I would like to encourage you to delete or ban some of these commenters as appropriate and/or necessary for your continued enjoyment.
entirely unrelated but holy shit my psychiatrist has those orchids, i love them and it never occurred to me to google whether they were for sale, so thank you!
I’ll start off by saying that despite not being on your side, I am sorry if people have mocked you on your voice. It isn’t right to do so especially when it’s completely out of your control. Now for the vid. The opposing side knows what sbi and other companies lie it do and that’s the issue. It’s going to be a mostly narrative issue. Forspoken failed not because the main character was black and a woman, but because the story and narrative was literally hot trash. Same with saints row and suicide squad. It also should be said that whenever a message is put in, it reads like that one article “plus sized women are not attracted to overweight men.” It’s hypocrisy and heavy handed in delivery. It’s also worth nothing that Chris did start things off and that’s what’s infuriating. All it tells me is that it’s justified when Chris tries to get his followers to bring down a page that lists games sbi had a hand in, but a full on hate campaign when it blows up in his face and gains attention from the larger community. It also reminds me of the whole hogwarts legacy debacle. One side tried, with the literal intervention from game journalists and a certain list that called twitch players transphobic, that launched the game sales to make it beyond successful.
It's hilarious to me to see the reversal of roles. The tactics used by anti-GG individuals last time are being used by the pro-GG group this time, the same complaints used by the pro-GG are now being spewed by the anti-GG individuals now. Crazy how the more things change, the more they stay the same. Sweet Baby seems like the lightning rod for the complaints against the industry, but the complaints are against the entire industry and those backing the recent shift in the industry. Btw watched the whole video and just a quick question; why does it seem that basically every game that Sweet Baby has been consulted on seem to have similar themes and similar characters that play into the narrative of the pro-GG crowd?
Respectfully, what the hell are you talking about? what tactics are the pro-GG individuals using that used to be tactics of anti-gg people? And please, please explain to me the "similar themes & similar characters" between Spider Man 2, Alan Wake 2, and God of War: Ragnarok.
@KyletheScott respectfully, you either didn't do your research or are being willfully ignorant because if you had done either, you would know the reason for themes and characters being complained about. But I will give you one example to assist your answer. In Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, Forspoken, etc each have a young woman of color who comes from a broken family, is artistic, and doesn't believe that the rules are fair and should/can be changed. That seems very stereotypical to me. Not all people of color come from broken homes. Some are artistic, and some aren't just like any other group. Some believe that societal rules work, some don't. Putting the same character in over and over with a different name is the opposite of inclusion. So I ask again, how is it that most, if not all, of the projects that Sweet Baby Inc works on have similar themes and characters? Btw I'm sure there is one exception to this one example, but the exception doesn't negate the rule.
Well you answered one of my questions at least. Those are some pretty broad similarities you're painting there, first of all I'm pretty sure Sweet Baby had no involvement with Forespoken so I don't know how that snuck in there. So 2 games with a black girl from a broken home who paints, I mean I guess it's a weird coincidence, but I'm really not sure that's a stereotype. Also, as I explained in the video, Sweet baby don't "put" these characters in the game on Spiderman 2 they're only credited as "Story consultation" which basically means the writers just asked them about stuff. Spider Man 2 also, obviously, heavily focuses on Miles Morales, there's the gay couple I've heard so much about. Singling out 2 similar characters is weak evidence.
I'm pretty sure that one of the employees who works with Sweet Baby worked on Forspoken, but I could be incorrect. See what I mean about being willfully ignorant or not doing your research. You expect me to list out every single issue for you, instead of you pointing out instances that disprove my point. Then instead of giving a reasoned and logical response, you hand wave the question away by saying "it's not them, the market demands it.", when you are claiming to be an authority on the issue and must therefore know that there are multiple instances of games failing to achieve success. There is an entire industry built on pointing out the issues with the current state of media for you to research. But instead you read headlines and look at thumbnails to build your beliefs. Then after failing to fully understand the topic, you stand on a soapbox claiming that you know the real reason behind this group's motivation and it's that they hate this group or that group. And that's after decades of support for the groups you say they hate! Blade got 3 movies because people enjoyed the character and the story. Aliens has gotten 6. Lethal Weapon, Beverley Hills Cop, Madea franchise, all of Tyler Perry's movies, How Stella Got Her Groove Back, Too Wong Foo: Thanks for Everything, Girls Trip, Beauty Shop, Barber Shop, Friday, Brokeback Mountain, all the Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor movies, heck all the way back to Blazing Saddles and The Wiz and before. And that's just movies! There books, comics, TV shows, plays, Broadway musicals, and more! But nope, the group that supported all that art, and much more, suddenly hates the individuals who made that art. Make art that people can relate to and the world will knock down the door to consume it.
This entire video is just wrong, an example is 15:21, Suicide squad failed bc of BOTH of its narrative failures AND its bad execution of a live service game, you quite literally got half of the reason suicide squad bombed, (which was the game that started this whole discourse mainly bc of its narrative) wrong. 25:13 I agree that diversity isnt the main problem that is causing the fall of triple A games (loosely), but the focal point of this situation is the diversity with how forced and phoned in it is, so ignoring it in this argument is not helping. 5:43 the reason people are looking into their past is bc of the people they are, and how they've treated other people, like one who literally slept with multiple while dating someone, and Ddos attacking. I honestly believe you have made this video in bad faith and believe you are attempting at gaslighting, because you cant just make a video like this while being misinformed. I have learnt nothing from this video but falsehoods and lies. Gamergate 2.0 is a thing because it's literally almost the same people
you say the entire video is wrong but only give 3 examples that aren't actually things I got wrong, okay then. Plenty of high profile reviews cite the story of Suicide Squad as one of the few good aspects of the game, so, do you have a proof that the narrative is half the reason for the failure? I'm not ignoring it, I talked about it in the video and said that it's not the reason for Triple A's decline, unless you have proof to the contrary? Why does someone's personal sex life have anything to do with what this company does?
Including sales figures from older games as benchmarks isn't quite apt, given that games today ship far more copies than they did back in the 2000s. A closer look at their more recent titles reveals that none have reached significant popularity. Thus, labeling their latest release as their fastest-selling game doesn't carry much weight in relative terms, especially considering it only shipped 1.3 million copies in four months, which is not particularly impressive. Alan Wake was a hit, and there was considerable anticipation for its sequel. However, when you measure it against other major titles, it's not performing as well. Taking into account an average sale price, the 1.3 million copies sold against the $70 million spent on production and marketing means they're not yet breaking even, with sales around $65 million. While it's likely the game will turn a profit eventually, it's premature to deem it a success, especially when compared to titles like Resident Evil 4, which sold 3 million copies in just the first two days.
I suspect this Steam user was involved in January 8 (US' J6 equivalent in Brasil). 10:47 is that the "FOCKEN PROOONOOOOUUUUNS!!!!!!!!!!!" guy lmao at this point taking that loser seriously shows all they need.
This is called ad honimem falacy, you deny any argument this guy says only because he's said another thing that's got nothing to do with the current arguement. Like him or hate him, Heelsvsbabyface was among the first to criticize the mediocrity of Starfield, and look at it now, its as bad as it ever was. The whole pronouns thing was made because the silent majority is now fed up with them. They do not provide any real value on a game's developer talent nor the games they produce, so its all just filler, and when the pronouns are on the focus, people just roll their eyes and try to look away because it doesn't really fit. It's a shame, diversity is not bad, but when its in bad faith like in Starfield where's theres and overabundance of female clutter characters or in Suicide Squad where it doesn't respect the source material that sticks out like a sore thumb, and people are fed up with it. It's a shame you can't tell the difference.
@@4Rys454Good thing you understand that all the complaints are nothing but blatant racism and bigotry, and such reactions towards inclusion, are exactly why it needs to be the way it is.
@@markedone494You’re just a racist then. Dei is inherently racist, it suggests that the minorities can’t get those jobs on their own merits and need ‘special help’. Stop projecting your racism onto other people.
@@4Rys454 Actually Heelsvsbabyface became a meme is because he doesn't speak for anyone but a niche subculture that wants to ignore or distract from things gamers actually care about, and only care about FOOOKIN PROOOONOOOOOWWWWWWNNNSSS, rather than poor quest design, loading screens, meaningless story, useless busywork like base building, mediocre gunplay, and all the other reasons gamers did not like Starfield.
@@robm6645 whatever floats your boat. Had Starfield not been the mess it was, Heelsvsbabyface would have definitely seen a larger backlash than what he did. And all of you repeating FUKIN PROWNAUNS just shows to me how much of an echo chamber you guys are. Nothing of value was lost.
well now I'm lost, some other guy claimed that I was the one doing the gaslighting, but you say I've been gaslit myself? who's gaslighting who! I don't know what to believe anymore.
One of the SBI literally scream harassment when it's the one who started all this mess... over. A Brazilian guy creating a list of games where SBI envolve.
You're missing the core of the criticism: people are opposed to having political messages imposed on them, not out of prejudice, but a desire for content without political overtones. If video games were suddenly filled with right-wing ideologies, the reaction would be the same. There was a time when it was broadly understood that politics didn't belong in video games, to avoid alienating significant segments of the audience. The issue isn't about the specific political stance; it's about the intrusion of any politics into spaces where it feels out of place and forced, detracting from the gaming experience. Ultimately, if the story and tone of a game don't resonate because of this, players simply won't engage with it. Also, the vast majority aren’t concerned with whom you share your bed; your identity matters to you, but it's not a concern for everyone else.
It does tho, buddy and if it doesnt say they/them it definitely says that ur trans 💀 because holy fuck ur not a girl why did u pay 10k for a voice feminization surgery
well let's keep this simple shall we? Dictionary . com defines bigot as: "a person who is intolerant or hateful toward people whose race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc., is different from the person's own."
Sbi literally broke into my home and broke both of my knees for saying if we can at least add one white guy. But sure. I bet it's just a "consultant firm"
Thanks for putting some fresh water in the middle of all of this. This is what happens when you don't have dialectical material analysis or any kind of class analysis for that matter of fact.
An alien from the planet Zircalon, but inhabiting this fleshy form. I desire only to float once more in the crimson skies of Zircalon but I am in hiding from the vile emperor S'Vad.
A company employing LGBT individuals doesn't shield it from scrutiny; one's sexual orientation or gender identity doesn't grant immunity from criticism.
@@mayayamato7351 From 07:16 to 7:30, and throughout the video, there's a pattern, but I'm not sifting through the entire transcript. Additionally, Kyle dismisses any legitimate critique, suggesting that those criticizing Sweet Baby are motivated by homophobia and racism. The overarching message seems to be that the only reason these "Gamer Boys" object is due to bigotry. However, disagreement with a political stance doesn't automatically equate to bigotry. It's logical to deduce that a significant portion of these critics, perhaps around 10% of these "Gamer Boys" and "Gamer Girls," including myself, belong to the LGBT community or do not identify as cisgender white males or females. This illustrates a flaw in the woke ideology-it ends up sidelining the very individuals it purports to support, simply because they don't conform to its prescribed norms of thinking, and behaving.
Well, in that one example you give, I'm not saying that them being LGBTQ or POC shields them from scrutiny, I'm saying it makes them a target of bigotry and harassment, which they are. What is your political stance that I disagree with? Elaborate on that please. The fact that you're not a white guy doesn't mean you're not part of a hateful movement, it just makes you a fool. Look at the people around you, the people in this very comment section and you can plainly see that this movement can and will dump you the second they get enough power to do so. My support for gay people doesn't mean blindly accepting everything someone believes just because they're gay, Gay people are just as capable of being wrong about stuff and supporting hateful movements as anyone else is.
@@justinwebber9968 does it? or are you the one using yourself/others being lgbt to deflect from criticism for being whipped into a frenzy about vague "woke" allegations?
@@KyletheScott It's important to recognize that the actions of a few individuals within a movement don't necessarily reflect the beliefs or behavior of the majority. For instance, showcasing a hate-filled comment in a video and attempting to portray it as representative of all critics is misleading. It's unfair to paint an entire group with the same brush based on the actions of a minority. (The irony should be apparent) Consider the situation with Sweet Baby, who mass-flagged that account-a clear form of harassment. Think about the countless individuals who have likely received death threats due to the company's actions. It's an unfortunate reality of the internet that everyone is susceptible to receiving hate, often based on their beliefs. While certain groups may be targeted for specific reasons, it's not acceptable to use that as an excuse to justify such behavior. So, by consistently highlighting the diversity of the company and repeatedly emphasizing it, you're effectively suggesting that any criticism directed at Sweet Baby is inherently bigoted, allowing individuals to evade accountability. Thus, you're disregarding any genuine intent behind the criticism and instead labeling it as part of a hate movement. Let's break it down: individuals are critiquing a diverse group, and regardless of whether you agree with the criticism or not, attributing it solely to phobia dismisses valid concerns. You're positioning yourself on the moral high ground solely based on the strength of your own opinion. Additionally, you're well aware that a significant portion of the discourse centers around left-wing ideas concerning race, sex, and gender, which have become prevalent in video games and media. Even your video acknowledges this, asserting that Sweet Baby isn't the root cause but rather hired to consult on such matters. So, let's be clear: we're discussing overt political messaging within a game where it doesn't belong. And to be honest, I don't recall being rude to you at any point, yet you've labeled me a fool and implied I'm a hateful bigot. It's rather hypocritical to claim the moral high ground. Or perhaps because I'm perceived as a hateful bigot, it's deemed acceptable to treat me poorly.
Hey, Kyle? I think you forgot to put something in your video. Chris Kindred and Felix At Home are friends with Zoe Quinn. Yeah, that's right. One of the people involved in the original Gamergate fiasco has ties to SBI as a whole. The kicker? The sister of Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend (Yes, the one who unalived himself because of Zoe Quinn's abuse allegations without any evidence to show for it.) actually owns SBI through parent companies. Don't believe me? Well here's some common sense for you: Do research and actually look up the history of topics you're trying to cover. Have fun with whatever nonsense you're trying to convey, Kyle. I'm going to drink some coffee and play a few Call of Duty Zombie maps.
@@kevlar2037 If you seriously think I comment like a 12 year old then you need a lesson on literacy and grammar. Can you actually come up with an argument or a reasonable debate, or are you just going to say "ok boomer" like a stereotypical meme troll? "12 year old commenter", my foot.
Just to clarify a few things not mentioned in this video: They are mad that Saga Anderson was a white character in a previous game and they "race swapped" her in Alan Wake 2 (this is not true, she wasnt race swapped) Alan Wake 2 has sold 1.4 million without a physical release or Steam release. Steam makes up over 80% of PC game sales. 1.4 million in sales is amazing for a game released under those parameters. Suicide Squad failed because of early bad press from a leaked photo that showed it was a Live Service game and the gameplay trailer was mass downvoted. People are angry that Sweet Baby Inc. tried to get the Brazilian guys Steam account suspended. People are also mad that the CEO of Sweet Baby Inc. and another writer there have made tweets saying that all white people are disgusting. I personally think that Sweet Baby Inc. and the people who hate them are all racists. Im just interested to see how both narratives evolve.
Suicide Squad failed because it is a bad game. It doesn't matter how bad the first impressions were, if it was a good game marred by bad marketing word of mouth would have taken over by now.
1.4 million...? Isnt that not Even half the first Game? Compared to it, I think its worse. And personally, I don't have an extremista belief that, either You are with me or not and either side is racist (or at least I like to think so) but I am not Going to stay silent anymore since the gaming industry has Been running stale for me for 4 years now. I dont think either side are all racist, but I don't support what Sweet Baby is doing. Much less after the fiasco it's employee Kindred has done. But I do see just and rightful for them to face the backlash they are getting now (as long as it's lógical, of course no death thrrats, kys, doxxing, yknow) Uh... So yeah. That
@@4Rys454 Alan Wake 2 is the fastest selling Remedy game of all time. The original Alan Wake sold 325,000 copies on release. Alan Wake 2 sold 1.4 million in a lot less available markets than the original. You're looking at 1.4 million and not taking into account that it never released on Steam or physical media.
What an incredibly ridiculous video. Kabrutus was trying to do exactly what he said he was trying to do, expose which games had worked with Sweet baby inc because these games had a lot of forced diversity or at least what he perceived as forced diversity. He had to be careful in his wording because otherwise he would be attacked by people as a harasser even though that was not his intention. Truth is that regardless of how he said it, once he decided to expose Sweet baby inc, people would attack him regardless of his intentions so he needed to be as careful as possible to avoid backlash. And he was attacked by a company. It's insane that you believe a company has any right to avoid criticism or scrutiny. You're painting him as some manipulator out to attack others when that was not the case at all. Also GamerGate was a very good movement against games journalists.
Heavy male feminist energy
Male feminists in 90% of cases are creeps.
He even fits the perfect physical depiction of a a male feminist too. 😂
Soyboy* energy
The voice must be from the estrogen treatments..
@@tctyt weirdly ironic to have a statement based on a conspiracy under a video criticizing a conspiracy theory.
Sweet Baby Inc has done some small projects on their own, including a game called Recommendation Dog where you play as a dog with a rolodex who assigns contractors to people.
I just thought everyone should know that because it's the cutest shit ever. Theres a dedicated button to just bark for no reason.
I'm so happy you're calling out the fake gamer bro outrage. Honestly, it quite pathetic how these dudes who have representation in 9999999.9% of games get their panties in the twist with mere utterances of diversity.
And i love how these gamerstm tried to attribute the state of the industry to sweet baby as if ppl didnt know the issues with the industry before theyre were even created.
Again thank you.
Only "gamers" could watch this video and think it's sensational. GamerGate has had a grip on their balls for over a decade and they like it too much to accept reality.
Wow, what a very straightforward and normal discussion about this situation. I'm sure it'll get a lot of likes and the comments section will be filled with thoughtful insight on --- oh. Oh no.
Oh man, I know this video is six months old at this point but I only found your channel today and THANK YOU. I've been baffled by this situation for months now and this is the only video that actually explains what happened with facts! So it's literally people who just hate diversity mad that the game equivalent of sensitivity readers exist and then trying to pretend they're not inviting harassment when they clearly were? Ugh.
Also, can I just say that this is scarily similar to a controversy that just happened the other day with the open-source game engine Godot? Like, eerily similar, where the engine's socials made a joke about how anti-woke crusaders were calling game engines woke and the joke was like, "Oh engines are woke now? Well, we're proud to be that then!" and then there was a firestorm of harassment and "just asking questions" people in the replies, and people saying they shouldn't make "political" comments (even though the team behind the engine has always been political), and then when the team started banning people for "harassment," everybody turned around and claimed the bans were all wrongful even though it was almost all blatant dog whistling and plausible deniability. And if even one ban was wrongful, that's like, enough of a mistake for people who would hate diversity anyway to denounce Godot.
Mass flagging, when orchestrated as a campaign against specific individuals, essentially becomes a form of harassment.
A conspiracy would be people talking in secret to commit a crime. These people speak openly in conferences and change laws to make their behavior okay.
True
Citation needed
oh they Change laws do they? You got a source on that claim?
@KyletheScott they are called "enhancements". Also Canada is doing it right now, the source would be your local and federal laws.
well now you're talking about the Canadian government, are you claiming SBI has control over the Canadian government? I'm going to need some proof of that.
you conveniently left out the part where the company uses scare tactics if the consulted don't agree and they said this out loud. and why yes, once something becomes suspicious you indeed should check their background no matter how old it is. a thing many cancellers like to do when checking years old tweets for dirt
look, there is a way to include more people naturally in game making process, but this is not the way. first carrot, not the stick
You're being disingenuous, she was talking about "showing the marketing team what happens when you leave something racist or offensive in your game" not, like, threatening them in an alley.
@@KyletheScottidk what exactly they are "showing what happens" but in japan there are games and media that are doing well with either distasteful stereotypes or all white main cast for example. doesn't seem to bother them so why is it such a problem in the west?
Haven''t managed to finish the whole video, but is Legobutts mentioned in any part whatsoever? Because If it isn't, it'd speak volumes of what this is trying to spread.
@@KyletheScott You really didn't answer the question in hand. Chris Kindred, ironically, went after a minority like Kabrutus, a Brazillian player, on a hate campaign to get his steam account removed, alongside all the money they spent on it. How do you find this right in any way shape or form?
@@KyletheScott She literally said, "Have a coffee with your marketing team and terrify them if they dont give you what you want," that is not showing the team what happens when you leave something "offensive," it is blatant fear tactics.
You are misusing her words.
Actually forget my earlier comment. I just realised on rewatch that I _do_ have something to comment here. Not about the overall topic of the video, but specifically about Sable, a game I have only heard of because of your introduction to it at the beginning of this video.
It reminds me quite a bit of a classic greentext story called "Why the elves wear masks", about a fantasy world someone created where elves are very secretive and all wear masks. Like in Sable, their masks represent something about themselves. It's a really good story and I would link it if YT's filters wouldn't block that, but I recommend seeking it out.
It is a free market, people are free to boycott products regardless of their reasons why
You are free to boycott any game by EA, and create a curator on Steam, to do so if you wish. It could be simply because you do not like an individual worker there, it could be because you think their games are rubbish, it doesn't matter.
A free market means we have choice, and we can choose to boycott games.
Stating that "Oh no, they're harassing us" while both sides of the argument have been doing that is a non-answer.
You should be hired as the senior editor at Kotaku.
I agree
@@KyletheScottHoly shit lmao
To truly illuminate a situation or raise awareness, one must grasp the full scope of that situation, which requires a thorough understanding and an open-minded examination of ALL perspectives involved especially the counterarguments.
I’ve been on the dark side of Twitter, this has been increasingly annoying. Some have really made hating the company their entire personality.
Glad to hear your take and facts on this. Love hearing your voice!
"The dark side of Twitter" implies that there's a "light side of Twitter" a fact that I would dispute.
@@KyletheScottthank is actually fair 😂
People on both sides of the issue are guilty of sensationalizing and making a bogeyman out of the opposing side. But the behavior of employees of SBI is truly reprehensible and is “a bad look” for them. I can’t believe that “progressive” thinkers and workers honestly think that “gamers” hate seeing people of color and/or LGBTQ characters in their games. Sure, there are some people who are actually racist, misogynistic, or whatever, but by and large “gamers” don’t have a problem with diversity in games, what they have a problem with is paying for premium products just to be lectured to in what are almost always worse products overall.
And I think you downplayed a lot of the criticism of Suicide Squad. I think it has at least as much to do with the narrative as it does the live service structure. And it’s interesting to note that SBI employees have major writing credits in the game that go beyond NPC barks and in-game ads. So it’s odd that they’re saying they came in at the end and had minimal involvement. If that is true, then why the significant writing credits?
And I think it’s misleading to paint Kabrutus as some kind of “internet savvy” mastermind. The intention was clear - to create a tool to easily see whether SBI is involved in a given title without having to reference another source. For people who - like him, myself, and now over a quarter of a million other people - want to avoid them. That isn’t inciting harassment. Informing people isn’t a hate crime, whether he likes SBI or not. The reason to avoid SBI is due to the opinion that their work is lackluster, to put it mildly. It has nothing to do with hating “people who don’t look like us”. If you make or contribute to a product as a business that a group of customers don’t want, it’s not the customers’ fault for not wanting it. If you actually believe in your work, then there’s no problem. There should be plenty of others who do want it.
Also interesting that you didn’t read any tweets from Chris Kindred, Alyssa Mercante, Carolyn Petit, or Felix. Because they paint a bit of a different picture.
ESG ratings and “the woke agenda” are great ideas in theory, in my opinion anyway. The issue isn’t the intention, it’s in the execution.
I think this is an extremely poor attempt to look at this objectively, if that was your intention.
That being said, I do believe your intention is good and I appreciate you putting your take out there. If diversity, equality, and inclusion are honestly what we want, then we need to be able to have open and honest conversations without dehumanizing the other side and crying about “micro aggressions” and hiding behind our fragility. There is a pattern of advocates and defenders of SBI and other similar companies to shut out and block any critics and detractors. Are there a lot of actual trolls? Sure. On both sides.
Can you give an example of SBI behavior that's "truly reprehensible"? While you're at it can you also give me an example of a lecture in one of the games SBI has been involved with?
I can find you several high profile reviews of Suicide Squad which list the story as one of the few positives of the game. I can find you none that are fans of the live service elements. but even if you're right, Sweet Baby still don't have significant writing credits. People appear to be confused because Kim Belair's credit is "Writer & team lead" but she's not the lead writer on the game, Ben Schroder, who works at Rocksteady, is. Kim is credited as the head writer of the Sweet Baby Inc. team, not of the game.
I showed in the video Kabrutus crafting the language to be more vague to deliberately obscure what the group was really for. The group has shutdown all discussions because too many people where being bigoted, Kabrutus is now asking his followers to stop Harassing people because they keep doing it, he has to ask them on the group because he knows that's where all the harassers are congregating. What's your conclusion to all of these facts?
I didn't read any SBI tweets because they're irrelevant to the conversation about what the company does and the conspiracy theories about ESG. But please explain to me this "different picture" that I've missed.
@@KyletheScottI think you’re being deliberately disingenuous dude literally no one liked the story of Suicide Squad, and the tweets are all freely available. They’re pretty awful. Your claims that the original group admin had some more nebulously sinister intention lacks evidence.
Dog whistle
@@micromints1735"no one", I guess you represent the entire planet
@@blackjacka.5097 Everyone fucked hate Suicide Squad’s story dude
Methinks that some of the people who have commented on your video “protest too much”. Keep up the great job you’re doing, Kyle. Again, a well thought out and presented video essay.
Whenever I hear someone complain about "woke" corporations, I remind that no corporation is "woke" because they all only care about profit. They're just appealing to a wider audience and don't believe what they're saying. But I always get yelled back that I'm wrong and don't know anything. But I still appreciate you for telling me about this. I've seen SBI and ESG score pop up now and then in game reviews and deliberately tried not to look up what it was all about.
The only gripe I have about "woke" games is that now some developers regularly choose fairly lackluster designs and generic character models, sacrificing style on the alter of realism. And I genuinely worry about feeling just that since I don't want to get mixed in with the "gamer" crowd.
oh I'm with you, Realism is so stale. I wish more Triple A games where willing to go all in on an artstyle because it looks incredible whenever they do.
Like with Star Wars, why are all the Star Wars games just realistic looking? Make a game in the Clone Wars art style! it would look incredible!
Ultimately it is their actions that tell me to avoid Sweet Baby Inc. Upon seeing a group that says "Hey, we don't like Sweet Baby Inc, these are games they were involved with and you shouldn't buy them", why didn't they just say ok, and let it go. Or even make a blog post that says these people don't like us, but we stand by our work.
Instead they try to take it down and even go after the personal property of the people involved. That tells me that whatever they are doing, it is some shady stuff and I don't want to get involved.
The fact that all the games on that list look like trash to me, is just confirmation that avoiding them is probably best. And this is _my_ tastes I'm talking about, I think having a story is _detrimental_ to a game.
And I don't think they are personally responsible for everything bad in Suicide Squad et al. I hope no one actually does, but there are stupid people out there. Instead I think that if the game was good, they wouldn't have hired Sweet Baby Inc in the first place. They are a symptom, not the disease.
Also, incidentally, there are no diverse persons. 24:14
I think I know what you meant, but I'm not sure. It is generally better if you say what you mean.
Every single game on that list has mostly negative or worse steam reviews.
@@Swiftduck00Not true actually.
Neo Cab and Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew most notably have good reviews.
Assassin's Creed Valhalla has Mostly Positive, I played it and don't see how, but it's a democracy.
Gotham Knights and Kingdom Eighties too.
The rest is Mixed and unreleased. None of them actually have mostly negative or worse. Not even if you don't exclude the latest time, which I obviously did due to the review bombing.
@@dtkedtyjrtyj I was confused, and was reading the curator recommendations as overall review status.
Color me corrected, sir.
I don't think you are fully aware of the scale of the issue here.
This isn't only a english speaking anger at SBI. This is international..
So there are multiple controversies outside of the english speaking world here, completely unrelated to this ESG/DEI funding stuff.
1. The Spanish translation of Spiderman 2, continuation of the latinx saga.
2. The slander against Japanese and Korean game companies.
3. Attack on minor developers from other cultures. Filipino, Bangladesh, Czech republic.
4. US twitters idiots shitting on Akira Toriyama (even before the body was cold, and the family+friends had a chance to grief).
These are the things that some might call "American cultural Imperialism". First example is the Spiderman 2 gender neutral Spanish. Mangling the entire grammar system of a language and telling Spanish speakers around the world that they were biggots for disagreeing with that. This is a monumental "shoot yourself in the foot" moment, and has burned a lot of goodwill by many consumers. The slander against Japanese and Korean devs for making beautiful women, and in many cases calling them lolicon (I can't write the english word here, but it is something like the Edo era with a P in front of it). This is especially bad as both Korea and Japan is looking to the US market for sales. The attack on smaller developers from around the world for non-diverse representations of their own cultures, does really hit hard it the enthusiast communities, as a joy of sharing your own culture gets replaced with the bitterness of a cultural clash.
Honestly people are tired of AAA companies deliberately mangling foreign cultures to fit to their own agenda. Whether it is the Nordic (former viking) cultures with a race swap in the pantheon, making Cleopatra black campaign by Netflix, or just any historic series by the BBC (British network) these days. It is disgusting, not because of the race swaps, but the absolute indifference to foreign cultures these often represent. It is shitting on borrowed mythology and culture for pandering to internal groups in the US/UK.
Sweet Baby inc was an easily identifiable target, and after the attempted cancellation of the guy who made the list on steam, this stuff kind of took off. If SBI didn't attack the guy, nobody would even have noticed the curator, now as of mid march 2024, it's over 280k now. They have been digging their own grave, by one of them going full idiot on twitter as well. People on the internet do a lot of stupid things, and getting the middle of a shit fight only makes you dirty and stinky. In a few weeks, this will probably die out, once it cycles out of the news. People will still check the list, and if the games are good, people will buy them anyways.
Btw, I think the real reason that the Alan wake game is selling slow is because it was an Epic games launch, if it comes to steam, it will probably sell even more. However that is to be seen. People trust the developer, so I don't think the association with Sweet baby inc will hurt the sales.
1. I couldn't possibly speak to that, I don't speak Spanish and have no cultural context for the Latinx issue. I should point out though that Sweet Baby don't do translations? so that doesn't seem very relevant here.
2. Do you have examples of this?
3. Same question, do you have any specific examples?
4. "Shitting on" is strong words if we're talking about the same tweet here. I think it's perfectly understandable that a black person might have some mixed opinions on Toriyama's legacy and the black characters he created over the years.
@@KyletheScott
1. I do speak Spanish, but only as a second language, so I can only tell from the view of Mexican and Spanish friends, that they do not like it. I am aware that SBI is not a translation company, and translation/localization companies is a whole other issue, hence the recent mass firings on US market with regards to japanese cartoons.
2. An recent well known example was the "loli" controversy of the Cyperpunk cartoon by studio trigger. The recent controversy of body shaming the actress for the Stellar Blade game (several articles, but also direct involvement by some SBI staff) on X/Twitter.
3. Specific games with big controversies: Zero hour, Kingdom come: Deliverance (a lot of game in the mid-market).
4. This is a thing of "cultural misunderstandings". The character referenced is Mr. Popo, which isn't a black person but based on a jinn from hindu mythology. Dragonball lends from a lot of Chinese and Indian mythology.
I hope this helps. I am not trying to start a controversy here, but just to explain why people outside the "Anglosphere" (english primarily spoken language). Find the takes from US gaming media and industry annoying and narrow minded. The sensitivity writing stuff does really rub people the wrong way, as this is how censorship is often sold in authoritarian regimes (USSR, DDR, Pinochet, China, Maduro, Putin regime, etc. etc.). It is something that maybe us non-anglo people are more alert to, as authoritarianism is a recent historic scar / active issue.
While many grifter do exploit this recent controversy / blowing it up to unreasonable degrees, this is something that strikes a chord.
2. Alright just doing some quick reading, as far as I can tell on the Cyberpunk thing, this is about the character of Rebecca? I haven't watched the anime but just looking at the design I can see where the comments are coming from. I personally find loli stuff quite uncomfortable but that term wasn't applied to the character by critics, the studio themselves called her that. But it also seems like she's a widely popular character so...Idk it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.
for the Stellar Blade thing, I'm going to need some clarification on what you're counting as "body shaming". Because I think regardless of country of origin, having a male game lead talk about the importance of attention paid you your female characters behind is a bit weird.
3. I can't find any particular controversy around the game Zero Hour (FPS by M7 Productions?) so either that's not what you're talking about or I need some clarification.
The Kingdom Come thing seems to be in relation to some comments from the lead developer that their were no people of colour in the region at the time the game is set? A fact that is historically inaccurate. I've read 2 articles about it which seem pretty mundane, and then a whole lot of gamergate types rallying around the game because it triggers SJWs. I'm sure some people have claimed that the developer is racist because of this, but also the game sold very fell for a game by a smaller studio, so I don't see how this is a big issue.
4. I don't pretend to speak for black people or their thoughts on the character or other black characters in Dragon Ball, but even if it wasn't indented to be a minstrel design, that is very clearly what it looks like and I can't really blame anyone for reading it that way. Especially when you see the designs of other black characters in the show. Regardless of that, drawing attention to the controversial ways that Toriyama drew black characters is not "Shitting on him".
@@KyletheScott
It is ok. We are probably at an impasse here.
I don't think it is fruitful to continue arguing this stuff. It is probably a waste of time for us both. The major points I wanted to make about this Sweet baby inc (SBI) controversy, is that there are no clean hands here. While I agree that grifters are spinning their audiences in to a frenzy, there is also legitimate reasons to criticize the normalization of alteration/censorship of media to fit cultural sensitivities. You wouldn't paint over the Mona Lisa with a Niqab, because some people within a minority might find the image offensive. It is a dangerous slope to be on, and can be easily abused by authoritarians with ill intent.
I don't see SBI as the major problem, just a symptom of a dangerous tendency. SBI are most likely middle men exploiting a niche, while some of their employees have said some vile stuff, they aren't the people who are in power. They are the bureaucrats between the artist and the audience.
Very important video for people to hear, this conspiracy is just forced diversity nonsense with conspiracy frosting. Also you give dwarf vibes
I give...dwarf vibes?
@@KyletheScott IDK lol. Great and important vid though!
Was there actually any evidence pointing out that the Steam group directed "harassment" towards SBI? All I see is just a small group that has a list of games that was also listed on the SBI website, which to be fair wouldn't be even in the limelight if it wasn't being strong-armed by SBI with greater influence but backfired spectacularly. People and Gamers who are outraged by this added the fact that some of their employees enjoy mudslinging white people and people they disagreed with, now have an avenue to vent their frustrations to, In which the Steam group does not have direct control over them or their actions?
Can I have a source for the original screenshots where the steam group was using more loaded language before being talked out of it
The original source was Chris Kindreds now deleted tweets, I don't remember which Account I nabbed my copy from but at the time a whole bunch of accounts where posting the same screenshot to claim that they where targeted harassment.
If you just search "Chris Kindred" on Twitted and scroll for a bit you can probably find the same Image I used.
Good to hear someone talking about this who hasn't drank the outrage koolaid. People getting this upset over a _consultancy company_ is so detached from reality it's completely absurd.
"Oh, but they scare people they contact by telling them what refusing their surfaces could do!" Welcome to corporate business. It's kill or be killed.
These people don't care about the decline of the games industry. They just want to be mad at a perceived out group. It's pathetic.
Edit: Having now watched the whole thing, I'm definitely gonna keep this video in my back pocket if this conversation ever comes up again. it's basically all my thoughts wrapped up in 25 minutes. Great job.
In retrospect saying these people just want to be mad at a perceived out group is a bit reductive. Instead, like you said, they're understandably angry about something but they're not directing it towards the right people/institutions. Partly out of a refusal to see the bigger picture, but also because of the sheer volume of nonsense being spread about the whole situation.
Man... the tinfoil hats are showing up for this one!
Sweet Baby is just the flourish while the real magic is done where nobody is looking. "Watch the coin closely" all the while the coin is gone, the hand is empty, & the audience is fooled into following the misdirection instead of the coin.
Elaborate. What's the coin in this analogy?
@@KyletheScott The terrible state of video games, particularly AAA. People blame the "boogeyman" when reality is much more nuanced. The awful stuff in games is widespread. SBI plays a role, but I think they are the scapegoat, happily sent to sacrifice to keep inquiring minds from searching deeper.
My point is this basically. Allow SBI to take the heat so those people truly making decisions remain unknown. It's much like the political system in America. Politicians are the public figures yet lobbying groups hold more power in swaying public opinion, so a Senator takes the heat. So what? He's easily replaced...just like SBI
"There's no need for formal conspiracies when all of these economic and political elites share the same ideology, which they learned from their environment growing up in similar positions of privilege within the dominant culture."
- George Carlin
Fascinating, and what is this terrible state of video games that they're hiding?
Alan Wake 2's release was received with abysmal sales.
Spiderman 2 was criticized for its disastrous buggy mess on release and out of pace narrative, without mentioning the side mission where you literally vandalize the city as a deaf girl, beacause that suddenly makes things right. Also, the game had a $300M Budget, so it needs over 7 million sales to break even. As we speak, it's gotten around 10 million sales in 4 months, the first game did twice as good in half the time.
Suicide Squad on release did as half as good as the Marvel Avengers game did, which is already a bad start, and it now sits with even less than a 1k players, and it took 9 years to develop, whilst the ENTIRE Arkham series released within that timeframe.
Say what you want about the "toxic gamers", gamergate or bigotry, all these companies are funded with money their customers give on good faith. Once that faith runs out, things will break down, just like it did with Volition after Saints Row, and just like it did with Forspoken. People don't care about ideologies in the general gaming market. If you make a good game, people will defend you.
These are not good games, and Sweet Baby Inc. does not abide by what the general market wants nor needs. Helldivers 2, despite its controversy with its fandom at the moment, is a clear example of why the market has been running stale, and how much the "gamers" crave for actual good content.
I find this video to go in complete bad faith, and it's not us who need to do better, it's the people we give our money to.
Go woke, go broke, it couldn't be simpler.
Spiderman 2 was not very buggy on day 1 for me. Anecdotal statement, but it was way better than many other memorably horrible bugged releases.
@@Swiftduck00 I didn't get to play it, but I didn't Even have to search for it's Bugs. Its also Sony's Golden egg, so it better be playable at the very least, but I don't think it'll go that well for it.
@@4Rys454 I can only speak to my own experience. I had about 4 instances of having to reload a checkpoint because a mission objective didn't activate, I got slingshotted to the stratosphere one time, and maybe a dozen or so enemies went braindead mid combat throughout the entire game.
I played the minute it was available and binged it. I enjoyed the game for the most part, but just like the first one, I found myself skipping cutscenes and especially rolling my eyes non stop during the final mission. Solid 6/10
I have been avoiding discussion about newly released games over the last couple of years because a lot of it is mindless fanboy shit and people over hyping minor issues in order to shit on games simply because they aren't available on whatever console they chose to buy and stick with. I usually give em 3 or 4 months to cool down and exit the zeitgeist before I start looking at what people say.
@@Swiftduck00 respect. from personal experience, I've only been hyped with Elden Ring''s release back in the day, after that, no game has caught my eye since. And it's a shame to me see long established franchise such as the Arkham games be deconstructed to the point they are now with Suicide Squad game. I am aware that "Sweet Baby Inc" isn't the whole responsible for its failure, I personally see it as a writing on the wall to know how the game will go. I do not support the group and I will avoid the games they work on, but at least I consider my view the "logical" thing.
Are there people devilizing it and claiming that its all their fault? For sure, but SBI ain't innocent at all.
Anything on extremism is unhealthy. It's as simple as that.
Thank you for taking the time for sharing your experience with Spiderman 2.
@@4Rys454 yeah every issue is infinitely more nuanced than any single person could ever comprehend. But we can't get lost in the woods looking at trees when we're trying to heal the whole forest. It's all important.
Mainstream Games are so expensive to make these days, that the people controlling that money have to have a safe ROI or they don't want anything to do with it. This means follow the current marketing ideas and make sure your company is minding it's Ps and Qs in regards to presenting a socially acceptable front face.
What I don't understand is why a lot of big budget games have art consultant and QA credits a mile long, but are obviously under tested as far as gameplay goes.
Isn't it amazing how great Arkham Knight looks? That game is still one of the best looking games out there graphically and it's working on outdated technology and hardware. I can't say I know what's going on, but something is off.
It's a shame because I love this hobby.nits my main passtime.
I will say that I have made my first preorder in over 6 years with Dragon's Dogma 2. Haha, we will see how that goes. I find myself drawn more and more to Japanese developed games these days.
Thanks for the nice discussions.
Just want i preface, some of your points are well thought out & argued. Mainly the stuff around black Rock, etc. However, calling it a conspiracy doesn't make it untrue. The ci@ created that term specifically as a psy-op to discredit anyone they wish merely by labeling.
As George Carlin wisely stated, "There's no need for formal conspiracies when all of these economic and political elites share the same ideology, which they learned from their environment growing up in similar positions of privilege within the dominant culture." Black Rock, Vanguard, State Street, WEF, NATO, etc. all are lead by people who went to the same schools and lived their entire lives within the orbit of like minded folks, so if they want to enact some agenda, they just nod, wink, & go to work.
The issue with ideas like those expressed at 22:00 mark isn't, "Well it's a black girl & I'm a white dude; therefore, it's crap." It is actually, "I'm playing ALAN WAKE 2 & now I'm suddenly spending half the game or more playing as some black girl." If they want to create a new character like her, go ahead & make a new IP or tie-in... you know like they did with Jesse Faden in Control! That game was amazing & I wouldn't have cared or noticed if it was a white girl, black, grey, pink, whatever cuz she was awesome & not replacing the namesake character of the game. Your line of defense & argumentation for Kim Belaire is bad faith & pure strawman fallacy. People hate these characters because they are bad characters, forced into places they don't belong (like pork being in a Jewish restaurant), & replace otherwise good characters with no explanation (Suicide Squad for insurance worth Deadshot... he just said, "Aren't you supposed to shut the heck up?" That's just terrible writing & gas lighting the audience for no good reason).
Opening your comment with "The CIA invented conspiracy theories to make me look like a crazy person" is such a power move. I'd respect it if it didn't...you know...make you look like a crazy person.
I was waiting for somebody to post a good video to battle disinformation about what this company does. A lot of these gamer types talk about how there's a difference between natural diversity and forced diversity but it seems to always come down to what they think is appropriate to show in fiction, which just turns so quickly into bigotry.
There have Been multiple examples of what You are asking, You are the one that refuses to see.
A Black giantess in God of War... Which is thematically taking place on the norse mythology.
Sidelining THE spiderman for another character because Miles is black meanwhile Peter geta conpletely shafted, thrown and sidelined in the story... Just because, while also downplaying him and making him completely toothless.
Race swapping an already established character, justifying it with a supposed copycat who coincidentally shares all features with You. Deadshot from Suicide Squad.
Race swapping ANOTHER character, who was already introduced and teased i'm previous games/spin offs. Alan Wake 2, Saga Anderson.
This all is sad, because a diverse cast is something objectively good, but ALL of these examples are just diversity attempts bye latching off of other people's work instead of doing something from the groundup. What this is implying here with all this is that diverse works can't exist without something previously existing to latch onto. Which is truly saddening and pathetic. It's a shame You can't tell the difference
It’s literally not misinformation.
@@4Rys454 I agree with you and what really irks me is that Miles Morales is a pretty good character in itself and one of the best examples of diverse characters with great backstories with accompanying media created in modern times and could stand on his own game. I was flabbergasted why they sidelined Peter in his own game and people are diverting their frustrations to Miles among others, causing bad impressions and stigma around the character making Miles look bad down the road, tanking his popularity as a whole.
My heart goes out to the employees on the butt end of this harrassment campaign. Gamergate never really seems to die; much like an infectious disease it seems to slumber for periods at a time before exploding at the most random target every year or so, taking many in its wake. I hope eventually the "normies" catch on; I think they might, given the "fragile gamer" stereotype, but I'm not holding my breath.
Also, I think I want to try Sable now. That looks like a game that'd satisfy an emotional itch.
Absolutely try Sable! it's a little rough around the edges in that classic indie way, but it's one of my favourites.
Do you even know what Gamergate *was*? It was about gaming journos selling good reviews for favors. That's what kicked it off. Gamers weren't happy about games, but yet they kept getting positive critic scores.
Also, sweet baby *started the harassment*. They were instigators who are crying victim now that people retaliated.
This guy is full of shit
Lol, learn to weld.
Sir, stop gaslighting.
By the way, kabrutus is a source of pride for us brazilians.
Is that why Brazil is such a shithole?
Rest of it seems pretty woke
"There's a big movement of gamers rising up against gaming corporations!"
"FUCK YEAH! What's it about? The sexual harrasment commited by ActiBlizz employers? The years of Konami and EA abusing thier employees in horrific ways? The Blatant and Toxic anti-consumerism?"
"No, they're angy because a few games had some gay people in them."
"...God DAMNIT!!"
Gamers: Consistently disappointing.
Weird way to spell "Humanity". Is that gaelic?@@KyletheScott
This is disingenous at its core. EA, Konami and Actiblizz have always been on the "gamers" sights due to all the nefarious shit they do.
This is not just "putting a chick in it, make her lame and gay", but rather how its messing with renowned and beloved IPs that people care about, especially after spending money for them.
Why do you think Forspoken failed? It was woke, it was original, and nobody cared, so the studio shut down.
But when you mess with someone else's work that has resonated with so many more people than something like Forspoken could ever achieve to do, then backlash is not just foreseeable, but a guarantee.
And that's the whole core of the problem. These ideologies sink in like parasytes into other people's talent and work, because on their own, they would fall, crash, burn and be forgotten, just like Forspoken.
But ay, I'm a bigot for thinking that, or I'm stupid and wrong.
How ironic.
> sexual harrasment commited by ActiBlizz employers
That is between the employers and employees; why would I care?
> Konami and EA abusing thier employees in horrific ways
Quit if you don't like your job; why would I care?
> anti-consumerism
Yeah, like companies trying to destroy peoples steam collection because they left a bad review.
@@4Rys454 Those goddamn ideologies of different people existing and living their lives in piece!!!
Thanks Kyle, this was a good and interesting video. As usual I enjoy your take. Kim Belair's "picky baby" thing made me laugh out loud because it's so on point, so thanks for sharing that.
For the record, investing firms like Blackrock have been gutting communities like mine for decades and I think ESG initiatives are a marketing tactic that do very little to mitigate those harms.
The mob mentality here is like watching a car crash (exhibit A this comment section). Also as a fan I would like to encourage you to delete or ban some of these commenters as appropriate and/or necessary for your continued enjoyment.
Oh I have been doing so, believe it or not you’ve not seen the worst of it.
@@KyletheScottalso I didn't know you were from Zircalon, my cousin studied abroad there. she said the food was really good
Brah you sound like I after 8 cold beers!
I sound Drunk? that's a new one.
@@KyletheScottI think he's trying to say that you sound fun.
Thank you for summarizing this, I have been baffled and confused and *wanders through the woods*
entirely unrelated but holy shit my psychiatrist has those orchids, i love them and it never occurred to me to google whether they were for sale, so thank you!
LEGO has a whole range of flowers, strong recommend.
@@itsmarthaiA shame that this is the least informed video on the topic then...
Man I’m really sorry you got informed by one of the worst videos about this topic.
Yeah this guy isn't it chief. He's purposefully miscomstruing things
Remember, the Dislike button still does something even if not everyone can see the numbers.
So does the shower even if you don't leave your house
There is a browser extension that restores the dislike count.
you're right, the dislike is still engagement ;)
@@KyletheScott too bad, i have an ad blocker and i disliked your video
@@uniqueprogressive9908thank you for finding a way to engage with creators you love whilst running adblock!
they worked with the control devs? you didn’t need to say anything else that already makes me trust em loo
dont let the idiot haters get to you good video that was well researched
Thank you thank you, I'll try my best.
I’ll start off by saying that despite not being on your side, I am sorry if people have mocked you on your voice. It isn’t right to do so especially when it’s completely out of your control.
Now for the vid. The opposing side knows what sbi and other companies lie it do and that’s the issue. It’s going to be a mostly narrative issue. Forspoken failed not because the main character was black and a woman, but because the story and narrative was literally hot trash. Same with saints row and suicide squad. It also should be said that whenever a message is put in, it reads like that one article “plus sized women are not attracted to overweight men.” It’s hypocrisy and heavy handed in delivery.
It’s also worth nothing that Chris did start things off and that’s what’s infuriating. All it tells me is that it’s justified when Chris tries to get his followers to bring down a page that lists games sbi had a hand in, but a full on hate campaign when it blows up in his face and gains attention from the larger community.
It also reminds me of the whole hogwarts legacy debacle. One side tried, with the literal intervention from game journalists and a certain list that called twitch players transphobic, that launched the game sales to make it beyond successful.
Forespoken could have been a good game if the wokies didn't work on it.
They literally uglified her with the model rigging.
@lloydgush
Haven’t played it because I don’t care for action RPGs but she looks fine to me.
@diamond_tango on still pictures without opening her mouth?
Yes. That's my point.
It feels like she's having a stroke everytime she opens her mouth.
Came in saw 74 likes to 1.6K views....I've seen all I need to see.
go on, keep it updated, coward. 92 likes 2.1k views.
@@KyletheScottnot an issue would you like daily updates?
Oh man I almost forgot 2.5K and only 116 likes not looking good my man.@@KyletheScott
@@VuduVinceI love watching fans of creators leaving multiple comments to massively boost engagement!
Who started the harassment? Couldn’t be the sweet baby inc employee telling steam to take down a pocs man’s steam account.
Correct.
It's hilarious to me to see the reversal of roles. The tactics used by anti-GG individuals last time are being used by the pro-GG group this time, the same complaints used by the pro-GG are now being spewed by the anti-GG individuals now. Crazy how the more things change, the more they stay the same. Sweet Baby seems like the lightning rod for the complaints against the industry, but the complaints are against the entire industry and those backing the recent shift in the industry.
Btw watched the whole video and just a quick question; why does it seem that basically every game that Sweet Baby has been consulted on seem to have similar themes and similar characters that play into the narrative of the pro-GG crowd?
Respectfully, what the hell are you talking about? what tactics are the pro-GG individuals using that used to be tactics of anti-gg people?
And please, please explain to me the "similar themes & similar characters" between Spider Man 2, Alan Wake 2, and God of War: Ragnarok.
@KyletheScott respectfully, you either didn't do your research or are being willfully ignorant because if you had done either, you would know the reason for themes and characters being complained about. But I will give you one example to assist your answer. In Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, Forspoken, etc each have a young woman of color who comes from a broken family, is artistic, and doesn't believe that the rules are fair and should/can be changed. That seems very stereotypical to me. Not all people of color come from broken homes. Some are artistic, and some aren't just like any other group. Some believe that societal rules work, some don't. Putting the same character in over and over with a different name is the opposite of inclusion. So I ask again, how is it that most, if not all, of the projects that Sweet Baby Inc works on have similar themes and characters?
Btw I'm sure there is one exception to this one example, but the exception doesn't negate the rule.
Well you answered one of my questions at least.
Those are some pretty broad similarities you're painting there, first of all I'm pretty sure Sweet Baby had no involvement with Forespoken so I don't know how that snuck in there. So 2 games with a black girl from a broken home who paints, I mean I guess it's a weird coincidence, but I'm really not sure that's a stereotype.
Also, as I explained in the video, Sweet baby don't "put" these characters in the game on Spiderman 2 they're only credited as "Story consultation" which basically means the writers just asked them about stuff. Spider Man 2 also, obviously, heavily focuses on Miles Morales, there's the gay couple I've heard so much about. Singling out 2 similar characters is weak evidence.
I'm pretty sure that one of the employees who works with Sweet Baby worked on Forspoken, but I could be incorrect.
See what I mean about being willfully ignorant or not doing your research. You expect me to list out every single issue for you, instead of you pointing out instances that disprove my point. Then instead of giving a reasoned and logical response, you hand wave the question away by saying "it's not them, the market demands it.", when you are claiming to be an authority on the issue and must therefore know that there are multiple instances of games failing to achieve success. There is an entire industry built on pointing out the issues with the current state of media for you to research. But instead you read headlines and look at thumbnails to build your beliefs. Then after failing to fully understand the topic, you stand on a soapbox claiming that you know the real reason behind this group's motivation and it's that they hate this group or that group. And that's after decades of support for the groups you say they hate! Blade got 3 movies because people enjoyed the character and the story. Aliens has gotten 6. Lethal Weapon, Beverley Hills Cop, Madea franchise, all of Tyler Perry's movies, How Stella Got Her Groove Back, Too Wong Foo: Thanks for Everything, Girls Trip, Beauty Shop, Barber Shop, Friday, Brokeback Mountain, all the Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor movies, heck all the way back to Blazing Saddles and The Wiz and before. And that's just movies! There books, comics, TV shows, plays, Broadway musicals, and more! But nope, the group that supported all that art, and much more, suddenly hates the individuals who made that art. Make art that people can relate to and the world will knock down the door to consume it.
Btw congratulations, I hope that you feel more whole, happy, and at peace with the your inward and outward identity.
I don’t know who you are or what you’re talking about but I know you’re spitting facts. Goo jorb
You sir have been missinformed
@@anautisticswede6748sir, no one asked
@@kevlar2037 I could say the very same about this video.
First I heard of this hit it was still super entertaining and I feel that I now have a through understanding of this
Too bad you don’t have a thorough understanding of grammar, or how to spell.
It would be worth checking both sides of the argument thoroughly and making your own conclusion.
This entire video is just wrong, an example is 15:21, Suicide squad failed bc of BOTH of its narrative failures AND its bad execution of a live service game, you quite literally got half of the reason suicide squad bombed, (which was the game that started this whole discourse mainly bc of its narrative) wrong.
25:13 I agree that diversity isnt the main problem that is causing the fall of triple A games (loosely), but the focal point of this situation is the diversity with how forced and phoned in it is, so ignoring it in this argument is not helping.
5:43 the reason people are looking into their past is bc of the people they are, and how they've treated other people, like one who literally slept with multiple while dating someone, and Ddos attacking.
I honestly believe you have made this video in bad faith and believe you are attempting at gaslighting, because you cant just make a video like this while being misinformed. I have learnt nothing from this video but falsehoods and lies. Gamergate 2.0 is a thing because it's literally almost the same people
you say the entire video is wrong but only give 3 examples that aren't actually things I got wrong, okay then.
Plenty of high profile reviews cite the story of Suicide Squad as one of the few good aspects of the game, so, do you have a proof that the narrative is half the reason for the failure?
I'm not ignoring it, I talked about it in the video and said that it's not the reason for Triple A's decline, unless you have proof to the contrary?
Why does someone's personal sex life have anything to do with what this company does?
ngl I thought at first you were using a voice modifier
A fluctuating accent that becomes heavier the longer a sentence goes on is a type of voice modifier.
Including sales figures from older games as benchmarks isn't quite apt, given that games today ship far more copies than they did back in the 2000s. A closer look at their more recent titles reveals that none have reached significant popularity.
Thus, labeling their latest release as their fastest-selling game doesn't carry much weight in relative terms, especially considering it only shipped 1.3 million copies in four months, which is not particularly impressive. Alan Wake was a hit, and there was considerable anticipation for its sequel. However, when you measure it against other major titles, it's not performing as well.
Taking into account an average sale price, the 1.3 million copies sold against the $70 million spent on production and marketing means they're not yet breaking even, with sales around $65 million. While it's likely the game will turn a profit eventually, it's premature to deem it a success, especially when compared to titles like Resident Evil 4, which sold 3 million copies in just the first two days.
I suspect this Steam user was involved in January 8 (US' J6 equivalent in Brasil).
10:47 is that the "FOCKEN PROOONOOOOUUUUNS!!!!!!!!!!!" guy lmao at this point taking that loser seriously shows all they need.
This is called ad honimem falacy, you deny any argument this guy says only because he's said another thing that's got nothing to do with the current arguement. Like him or hate him, Heelsvsbabyface was among the first to criticize the mediocrity of Starfield, and look at it now, its as bad as it ever was. The whole pronouns thing was made because the silent majority is now fed up with them. They do not provide any real value on a game's developer talent nor the games they produce, so its all just filler, and when the pronouns are on the focus, people just roll their eyes and try to look away because it doesn't really fit. It's a shame, diversity is not bad, but when its in bad faith like in Starfield where's theres and overabundance of female clutter characters or in Suicide Squad where it doesn't respect the source material that sticks out like a sore thumb, and people are fed up with it. It's a shame you can't tell the difference.
@@4Rys454Good thing you understand that all the complaints are nothing but blatant racism and bigotry, and such reactions towards inclusion, are exactly why it needs to be the way it is.
@@markedone494You’re just a racist then.
Dei is inherently racist, it suggests that the minorities can’t get those jobs on their own merits and need ‘special help’.
Stop projecting your racism onto other people.
@@4Rys454 Actually Heelsvsbabyface became a meme is because he doesn't speak for anyone but a niche subculture that wants to ignore or distract from things gamers actually care about, and only care about FOOOKIN PROOOONOOOOOWWWWWWNNNSSS, rather than poor quest design, loading screens, meaningless story, useless busywork like base building, mediocre gunplay, and all the other reasons gamers did not like Starfield.
@@robm6645 whatever floats your boat. Had Starfield not been the mess it was, Heelsvsbabyface would have definitely seen a larger backlash than what he did. And all of you repeating FUKIN PROWNAUNS just shows to me how much of an echo chamber you guys are. Nothing of value was lost.
I joined a group to help me avoid Sweet Baby.
You been gaslight bro sorry to tell u
well now I'm lost, some other guy claimed that I was the one doing the gaslighting, but you say I've been gaslit myself? who's gaslighting who! I don't know what to believe anymore.
@@KyletheScott you’re probably stupid you been gaslit and now you’re indoctrinated spreading the same shit that gaslit u
I see, thanks for clearing that up for me.
One of the SBI literally scream harassment when it's the one who started all this mess... over. A Brazilian guy creating a list of games where SBI envolve.
You're missing the core of the criticism: people are opposed to having political messages imposed on them, not out of prejudice, but a desire for content without political overtones. If video games were suddenly filled with right-wing ideologies, the reaction would be the same.
There was a time when it was broadly understood that politics didn't belong in video games, to avoid alienating significant segments of the audience. The issue isn't about the specific political stance; it's about the intrusion of any politics into spaces where it feels out of place and forced, detracting from the gaming experience.
Ultimately, if the story and tone of a game don't resonate because of this, players simply won't engage with it. Also, the vast majority aren’t concerned with whom you share your bed; your identity matters to you, but it's not a concern for everyone else.
elaborate, please. What's a political message in a recent game that people are mad about?
wheres his twitter i wanna see if it says they/them 💀
Spoilers: It doesn't. you'll have to find some other reason to hate me. don't worry I'm sure you'll manage.
It does tho, buddy and if it doesnt say they/them it definitely says that ur trans 💀 because holy fuck ur not a girl why did u pay 10k for a voice feminization surgery
Didn't do any of that either, keep trying.
Also "Voice feminization Surgery?" You have absolutely no idea how transition works, do you.
Class opening. Bet that was fun to film😂
Could you do me a favor and define the word "bigot" within the context that you used it during this video?
well let's keep this simple shall we? Dictionary . com defines bigot as: "a person who is intolerant or hateful toward people whose race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc., is different from the person's own."
Another case of capital G Gamers being the worst, or at my most generous, extremely easily fooled
Sbi literally broke into my home and broke both of my knees for saying if we can at least add one white guy. But sure. I bet it's just a "consultant firm"
I'm sorry to hear that, but you have to understand that it's all for the greater good, of course.
@@KyletheScott so true bestie. Knees are temporary. Wokeness is eternal
Thanks for putting some fresh water in the middle of all of this. This is what happens when you don't have dialectical material analysis or any kind of class analysis for that matter of fact.
I’m sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what this means. I can’t even tell if you’re agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.
@@KyletheScott basically a way of seeing the world from a Marxist lens i.e who has power and who doesn't
Whats up with "grandmother voice"?
That's a trans survivor for you
@@vespenegas261 makes sense.
I'm not trans you fuckin' dorks.
@@KyletheScott Ok. What are you?
An alien from the planet Zircalon, but inhabiting this fleshy form. I desire only to float once more in the crimson skies of Zircalon but I am in hiding from the vile emperor S'Vad.
Is this an early April fools day video?
I just wanna say,thank you for this vid
These incel comments
Seriously. The transference in these commenters is really in-your-face. I just want to be like "bruh who hurt you"
What do you think incel means?
A company employing LGBT individuals doesn't shield it from scrutiny; one's sexual orientation or gender identity doesn't grant immunity from criticism.
time stamp to where he says something to the contrary?
@@mayayamato7351 From 07:16 to 7:30, and throughout the video, there's a pattern, but I'm not sifting through the entire transcript. Additionally, Kyle dismisses any legitimate critique, suggesting that those criticizing Sweet Baby are motivated by homophobia and racism.
The overarching message seems to be that the only reason these "Gamer Boys" object is due to bigotry. However, disagreement with a political stance doesn't automatically equate to bigotry. It's logical to deduce that a significant portion of these critics, perhaps around 10% of these "Gamer Boys" and "Gamer Girls," including myself, belong to the LGBT community or do not identify as cisgender white males or females.
This illustrates a flaw in the woke ideology-it ends up sidelining the very individuals it purports to support, simply because they don't conform to its prescribed norms of thinking, and behaving.
Well, in that one example you give, I'm not saying that them being LGBTQ or POC shields them from scrutiny, I'm saying it makes them a target of bigotry and harassment, which they are.
What is your political stance that I disagree with? Elaborate on that please.
The fact that you're not a white guy doesn't mean you're not part of a hateful movement, it just makes you a fool. Look at the people around you, the people in this very comment section and you can plainly see that this movement can and will dump you the second they get enough power to do so.
My support for gay people doesn't mean blindly accepting everything someone believes just because they're gay, Gay people are just as capable of being wrong about stuff and supporting hateful movements as anyone else is.
@@justinwebber9968 does it? or are you the one using yourself/others being lgbt to deflect from criticism for being whipped into a frenzy about vague "woke" allegations?
@@KyletheScott It's important to recognize that the actions of a few individuals within a movement don't necessarily reflect the beliefs or behavior of the majority. For instance, showcasing a hate-filled comment in a video and attempting to portray it as representative of all critics is misleading. It's unfair to paint an entire group with the same brush based on the actions of a minority. (The irony should be apparent)
Consider the situation with Sweet Baby, who mass-flagged that account-a clear form of harassment. Think about the countless individuals who have likely received death threats due to the company's actions. It's an unfortunate reality of the internet that everyone is susceptible to receiving hate, often based on their beliefs. While certain groups may be targeted for specific reasons, it's not acceptable to use that as an excuse to justify such behavior.
So, by consistently highlighting the diversity of the company and repeatedly emphasizing it, you're effectively suggesting that any criticism directed at Sweet Baby is inherently bigoted, allowing individuals to evade accountability. Thus, you're disregarding any genuine intent behind the criticism and instead labeling it as part of a hate movement. Let's break it down: individuals are critiquing a diverse group, and regardless of whether you agree with the criticism or not, attributing it solely to phobia dismisses valid concerns.
You're positioning yourself on the moral high ground solely based on the strength of your own opinion. Additionally, you're well aware that a significant portion of the discourse centers around left-wing ideas concerning race, sex, and gender, which have become prevalent in video games and media. Even your video acknowledges this, asserting that Sweet Baby isn't the root cause but rather hired to consult on such matters.
So, let's be clear: we're discussing overt political messaging within a game where it doesn't belong.
And to be honest, I don't recall being rude to you at any point, yet you've labeled me a fool and implied I'm a hateful bigot. It's rather hypocritical to claim the moral high ground. Or perhaps because I'm perceived as a hateful bigot, it's deemed acceptable to treat me poorly.
Hey, Kyle? I think you forgot to put something in your video. Chris Kindred and Felix At Home are friends with Zoe Quinn. Yeah, that's right. One of the people involved in the original Gamergate fiasco has ties to SBI as a whole. The kicker? The sister of Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend (Yes, the one who unalived himself because of Zoe Quinn's abuse allegations without any evidence to show for it.) actually owns SBI through parent companies. Don't believe me? Well here's some common sense for you: Do research and actually look up the history of topics you're trying to cover.
Have fun with whatever nonsense you're trying to convey, Kyle. I'm going to drink some coffee and play a few Call of Duty Zombie maps.
I... did not know that...
I am literally going to kill myself.
Average 12 year old commenter 😂😂
@@kevlar2037 If you seriously think I comment like a 12 year old then you need a lesson on literacy and grammar. Can you actually come up with an argument or a reasonable debate, or are you just going to say "ok boomer" like a stereotypical meme troll? "12 year old commenter", my foot.
@@kevlar2037 Clean house before you label someone else's
@@21Malkavian do you not think you comment like a 12 year old COD player? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
No
any context on that or just...No?
Really hope she sees this, bro
Somebody tell this guy she won’t sleep wit him for this
Fantastic video, I saw all of this gamergate 2.0 nonsense popping off and just rolled my eyes.
It is just ridiculous to see someone trying to run defense for a group of people that would absolutely loath them.
Great vid!
thank you thank you!
If the Steam curator page was "bigoted targeted harassment campaign", it would have already been deleted by Steam.
i saw nazi accaunts in steam that havent been taking down (Sorry for my bad english)
Great Video
Thanks MA RI!
Just to clarify a few things not mentioned in this video:
They are mad that Saga Anderson was a white character in a previous game and they "race swapped" her in Alan Wake 2 (this is not true, she wasnt race swapped)
Alan Wake 2 has sold 1.4 million without a physical release or Steam release. Steam makes up over 80% of PC game sales. 1.4 million in sales is amazing for a game released under those parameters.
Suicide Squad failed because of early bad press from a leaked photo that showed it was a Live Service game and the gameplay trailer was mass downvoted.
People are angry that Sweet Baby Inc. tried to get the Brazilian guys Steam account suspended.
People are also mad that the CEO of Sweet Baby Inc. and another writer there have made tweets saying that all white people are disgusting.
I personally think that Sweet Baby Inc. and the people who hate them are all racists. Im just interested to see how both narratives evolve.
Alan Wake 2 was released on consoles too. Both Xbox and PS.
@@Justuas yeah that's true but I was only mentioning the things it wasn't released on. I didn't mention Epic Store either.
Suicide Squad failed because it is a bad game. It doesn't matter how bad the first impressions were, if it was a good game marred by bad marketing word of mouth would have taken over by now.
1.4 million...? Isnt that not Even half the first Game? Compared to it, I think its worse.
And personally, I don't have an extremista belief that, either You are with me or not and either side is racist (or at least I like to think so) but I am not Going to stay silent anymore since the gaming industry has Been running stale for me for 4 years now.
I dont think either side are all racist, but I don't support what Sweet Baby is doing. Much less after the fiasco it's employee Kindred has done. But I do see just and rightful for them to face the backlash they are getting now (as long as it's lógical, of course no death thrrats, kys, doxxing, yknow)
Uh... So yeah. That
@@4Rys454 Alan Wake 2 is the fastest selling Remedy game of all time. The original Alan Wake sold 325,000 copies on release. Alan Wake 2 sold 1.4 million in a lot less available markets than the original.
You're looking at 1.4 million and not taking into account that it never released on Steam or physical media.
Too much soy
the comment so nice you made it twice!
Bro soy milk is delicious what are you yapping about?
Don't speak for a living if you sound like that
its over for you
very ominous, care to elaborate?
Thanks for the gaslighting, Mister! 🙄
You all keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.
Imagine thinking Woke is bad 🤣
WOKE KANDA FOREVERRRRRRRR
Who else bets that Kyle votes SNP?
You can always tell.
What an incredibly ridiculous video.
Kabrutus was trying to do exactly what he said he was trying to do, expose which games had worked with Sweet baby inc because these games had a lot of forced diversity or at least what he perceived as forced diversity. He had to be careful in his wording because otherwise he would be attacked by people as a harasser even though that was not his intention. Truth is that regardless of how he said it, once he decided to expose Sweet baby inc, people would attack him regardless of his intentions so he needed to be as careful as possible to avoid backlash. And he was attacked by a company. It's insane that you believe a company has any right to avoid criticism or scrutiny. You're painting him as some manipulator out to attack others when that was not the case at all.
Also GamerGate was a very good movement against games journalists.
Lol😂
Cringe
RATIO
Too much soy
you got me, it's the Soy, it's always the Soy.
Soy
SOY
SOY!
SOY!!