Controllers DOMINATE MnK in MW3 thanks to aim assist
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 січ 2024
- Testing Discord link: / discord
MnK Video: • Mouse input is BROKEN ...
Modern Warfare 3 is really hard to play on mouse and keyboard compared to controller. Controllers have rotational aim assist which cancels out all the RNG factors in aiming.
Twitter: / drift0r
TikTok: / drift0rtv
Twitch: / drift0r
Shorts channel: / @drift0rshorts61
Discord: / discord
5% off LogitechG: logi.gg/drift0r
Code "drift0r" also saves 5% off (if the link doesn't do it automatically)
Gamer Advantage Glasses: gameradvantage.com/?ref=drift0r
10% off w/ code "drift0r"
5% off Netduma R2 Router w/ code "DRFT"
netduma.com/
Epic Games Support-a-Creator: "drift0r_thereal" - Ігри
if you wouldnhave told me 10 years ago that comp shooter players are ditchiong mnk in favor of controller because its more competitive, i would have laughed at you
Still sounds weird
@@juulfiend2103that's cuz it is. Inflation is taking it's toll driving up the cost of goods including the minimizing the value of things we got before it got factored. The truth is Activision and Microsoft are targeting mobile gamers. They want to create a mobile console like a series X that can also run games in tandem like a steam deck/switch. The days of personal computers and Mouse and key are about to be part of the dinosaur age and I say all this as someone whose played and loved PC his entire life. Gaming is about to get worse unless we call it out
Times change. 10 years before that was something else and 10 years from now it will be something else.
COD pros have always used controllers.
@@spakentruth Okay-? I’m not suggesting anything about the morality or legitimacy of CDL or professional esports in general. I don’t watch other people play videogames.
This is so frustrating for me personally, because I transitioned to PC back in 2020 after playing console all my life and it took me close to six months before MnK began to click. Now, I’m so comfortable on MnK that when I play shooters at a friend’s house, I feel almost totally inept at aiming with a controller. When I play The Finals or Fortnite with my friends, my aim is on par or even better than theirs much of the time, but playing CoD again with them I have consistently worse performances, and while I can’t objectively attribute it to difference in aim/aim assist, it would certainly make a lot of sense after watching this video.
You've hit the nail on the head here. AA needs to exist but not to the level that some "engagements" you lose just by default due to input.
I miss dedicated servers on PC. Controller players are so unbalanced..
The fact you can tell what input you died to paints the whole picture of how ridiculously overtuned AA is. Not that the DEVs care tho, for them its just a business and they've never played the game. All they care about is deluding people into feeling "good" and spend $ on microtransactions.
@@Divinity_vA Um, watching mouse players whip around 180 degrees, go from a tac sprint to jumping backwards with a twitch of their fingertips while maintaining aim…. Having extra frames and higher resolutions to spot you on their monitor before you even round the corner on your own TV…. oh and the wall hacks/aim bots turned on and off with footpedals when that crutch is needed to win a gun fight… you could ALWAYS tell console controller players from PC mouse and keyboard players.
You guys are delusional if you think slowing down when over target on a console makes console players overpowered compared to the above. It’s merely aim assist-the same aim assist COD has always had in the console version, even before crossplay-not your aimbot hacks.
@@MisterCaution You can tell a console player because of the dogsh&t movementless npc gameplay while 1 clipping people from 10-15meters and hitting barely 1 bullet from over 80 meters.
Its funny how roller brains doesn't even aknowledge how much AA actually does for them and cope as if they're good and can hit a shot if play on normal sensitivity and no AA. Not only magnetization, your input literally REACTS for you in inhuman speed but keep cooking little Timmy.
As for cheaters, i don't blame them. More aimbotters the better in a dogsh&t game where 1 input is given free aim.
AA strength has remained substantively unchanged in MW2/MW3 compared to CODs throughout history, including the pre-crossplay era. People smarter than I, such as Xclusive Ace, have videos scientifically exploring this and debunking Pc players’ misperceptions about what AA does.
As for “dogsh*t movement…” This is a case-in-point. You poke fun at console players’ movement inabilities (due to the mechanical and physical limitations of controller use) while failing to acknowledge how these same limitations give PC players a massive advantage over console control players in every aspect except those few gunfights that benefit from rotational AA-enhanced strafing tactics.
@@MisterCaution That is a massive cope. All MnK has over Controller is tap-strafing which is not even essential for majority of movement. Its your laziness.
As for AA, initially it wasn't designed with magnetization and instant reaction time (which again, IS INHUMAN). Hold a mouse for once, try to aim and see how much different it is. I am fully convinced that anyone who fails to realize how broken AA is even if all top CONTROLLER PLAYERS admits to abusing it because of its state have never touches a mouse.
We only have "advantage" in medium to long range which is irrelevant in Apex. And thats only because controller folks are lazy c*nts. Folks like MgClutch have no issues shooting past 100m or any good player who have put some time into the firing range. Its the godawful Timmys who lose all their "god aim" as soon as they have to control recoil by themselves or get bang smoked.
Movement and tap-strafe is fancy and all but don't forget, the player who hits their shots wins the fight. No movement will save you from auto tracking. In fact, MnK has harder time tracking movement than AA does.
They need strong aim assist to narrow the mechanical skill gap between players. Especially the skill gap between an average controller player and a mouse and keyboard veteran. These games are designed to coddle as many people as possible to maximize microtransaction sales and a powerful aim assist along with protective brackets will help ensure that.
Yes controller does need aim assist. Not Aimbot 🤣
They ruined the experience for MnK players forcing us to switch to a less preferred input. Add aim assist to MnK. Balance the game.
Mnk doesn’t need aim assist just decreasing the amount of aim assist to controllers to limit the ability to drag across the screen and hit targets or win 100% of close range gunfights without using any skill
@@Carlisle-yy9vm Controller players will complain that they're missing more shots and less people will play. Adding it to MnK would change nothing, giving them no chance to complain.
Perhaps add aa to mno but only for 5 meters
“I have a dream, that one day you will not be judged for whether you use Mnk or controller,” - Martin Luther Keyboard
This is one of the major issues with Crossplay. Something that was pushed for and they put in, but they didnt seem to do anything to balance it out.
But for years all I heard was how the PC master race would squash the console kiddies. Mind you I'm part of the PC people now.
@@kingcaesar3693 Same, I also quit CoD Years ago. Out Grew it. But I mean it feels half assed, kinda like the whole game. They dont make CoD Good anymore, they make it good enough to sell microtransactions. Those always come first. So the fact that Controller has such an Edge over PC is jsut the lack of dev attention it needs to fine tune it.
@@brimstone9060 I haven't touched a CoD either since Blops 3. But I've met people who actually think that aim assist is doing 100% of the work for you. Maybe it's gotten super strong, but I never felt that way in say original MW2 or Blops 1. Even in games that have no actual point in it to have it like Dead By Daylight I met a guy who argued that lol. There's 3 characters in that game btw that uses a harpoon gun, hachets, and knives, and the rest are melee.
Currently i think the finals has the best balancing between controller and mnk. Roller feels competent in that game but not op.
@@kingcaesar3693Back then aim assist wasnt nearly that strong. The tech is pretty evolved.
Controller's been broken for years. I absolutely hate it. What's worse is console players legit just think they're that good, not even knowing they have aimbot light, yet they'll say M&K is just clicking heads.
The game industry wants to take out most of the skill involved in FPS games to ego stroke terrible controller players into thinking they are skilled so studios can continue to milk these mouth breathers' wallets and it's working. All this is going to do is create a market for aim assist scripts for MnK players who are fed up playing their favorite games against controller players who have half the aiming done for them
So true. It literally aiming for you to boost your ego. And they don't know how bad they are without the aim assist
100% correct. So frustrating.
Exactly
This is absolutely 100% spot on, sadly, you cant even discuss this with most controller players as they just think your whining. The reality is AA is an unfair advantage over KBM unless your absolutely Cracked out your skin, and even so, your still at a disadvantage technically. Another solution would be to give AA to all of us however , you could dumb it right down for close range battles for KBM ( but not take it away completely). as a lifetime PC Gamer, I only ever picked up a controller for the odd racing game but never a shooter so it is totally alien to me and I just cant use one. its at the point now where its pointless playing the game if your average as you have no chance against Controller players.... its the sad reality.
I made the switch to controller last year after trying it on and off, on CoD it is just straight up better than using mouse and keyboard once you get used to it and learn how to use rotational aim assist. Apex definitely took longer to get the hang of, however I made the change from classic response curve to linear it is now a lot better especially in close range fights which a lot of Apex fights tend to be. Overall I find controller a more consistent experience and to be honest as I get older I am way more casual and controller suits that.
how do u pull up ur map to ping stuff on the map?
thought id input that i use Ds4Windows and bind my map to my touchpad@@akaMopsik
It like putting the Lamborghini in the garage and busting out a Toyota Corolla
You are the exact casual no-aimer that they are catering towards to milk the market.
It definitely needs tonned down a bit, but they need to remove that constant rng sway thing first. Dunno why it isnt like it always used to be where it only kicked in after being ads for a short bit.
@@lrsb1678that’s right, that’s how aim assist is on cod, so yea it was a console game, no need to nerf it. Complaining controller not having aim assist in csgo
Make "skill" grear again.
@@frostpg3dmodz966 COD was first a PC game. A ton of the early pro scene was on PC. It’s not a “console” game. Finest Hour game out a whole year after COD 1 lol
@@ContraFox97 your right actually, like csgo, it's a console game
@@ContraFox97 either way, my point still stands, that's how aim assist in cod works, no need to nerf
I usually dont care about this aim assist talk but Ive noticed that when I bump into an enemy using controller their aim just follows me perfectly. I can almost never win
You're brave for this. The Aim Assist Andy's aren't going to be happy about this one
Nice profile picture, virgin.
I have been ripping The Finals with my friends. I play MnK while a buddy of mine plays controller. In the decade plus we have been friends, he has never outshined me in KD. In the Finals he consistently puts out 2 to 3 times my kills. Doesnt bother me but I find it very interesting.
Glad to see you still supporting your friend even after he got good 😀
@@Drift0rgot jokes now.
I deadass have been experiencing this in my games and I’m an M&K player. Had no idea how mfs were tracking or hitting shots that well…
aim assist.
I thought mnk was always more accurate that controller? Is the aim assist THAT strong nowadays
@@Savevade Yes. I'm a controller player and yes. Yes it's stupid strong. And it absolutely needs a nerf
I absolutely saw that instead since mw2 and it's making me mad since...
ummm yeah.@@Savevade
haha I made that graph at 1:56 for Halo when it released - I'm glad it's still being used to try and highlight the power of AA
Where’d the data come from?
@@evileye1337 I scraped Halo Tracker when Halo released - since there were split queues you could tell what input players were using and the site had their accuracy stats
@@alfphie5542 Is it still relevant then because they added small aim assist to MnK since then
@@berryvolcano3787 No not the most relevant if you're actually interested in the disparity currently in Halo - but interesting as a kind of benchmark for the standard strength of AA these games are releasing with - I've not seen much data like this apart from recently from R5Reloaded which I think StriveFPS talks about
@@alfphie5542 Thanks. I suspect controller would still be ahead but the gap may be slightly closer after the change, I found it significant. I just can't get used to controller again lmao
Honestly, this is 90% of the reason why that I stopped playing big FPS games with multiplayer. Its hilarious how much hand holding there is when you use a controller. Its the same with Apex legends, the aim assist is just nuts
What about the huge in my opinion, advantage PC players have over console players in regards to the performance of higher end PC's over consoles. PC can run at a far higher frame rate.
A faster graphics card delivers higher frame rates that let you see things earlier and give you a better chance of hitting targets.
@@tubedinoz they've invested in that. Likes like moaning about having 1 bathroom in a house when someone else has more. They have laid for it
@@Jellyisamazing so pay to win?
@@tubedinoz The PC community never asked for cross play, the gap between pcs, and consoles is not so huge. The investment into a high end PC is 1000s compared to 500 or so on a console. In fact if you've got 60fps for the most part you are fine, some absurd counts of a 200 are completely pointless. It's pay to win to play with a controller, it's actually insane how much assistance there is now. But your point is redundant because PC gaming is not pay to win at all, it actually requires a good amount of practice and you get zero hand holding
@@Jellyisamazing you're deluded.
Don t forget that Call of Duty API is now closed off to trackign websites, my little conspiracy theory is that this was done to prevent people from seeing the difference in Accuracy Statistics with MnK and Controller
Controller aim assist needs to be reduced by like 50% at least. Had a guy literally track me through the wall on meat. At first I thought he had wall hacks or an aim bot. But he was on PS5. His aim assist was that damn good though. It literally tracked my every movement through the damn wall
Feels so bad that controllers are being favored so strongly. Aimbots > actual skill and developers are promoting it.
glad to learn you're doing better Drift0r
They need "Mouse only servers" as Aim Assist is an aimbot. Aim Assist can lock on to targets through walls and while jumping and gassed.
I've played competitive games on mouse n keyboard for last 7 years and always have been WAY above average an even doing tournaments and performing well in fortnite and apex legends an never had a "problem" fighting controller players. MW3 has changed that and I've never been stomped by a console player so badly in my life and it's quite discerning tbh, it's like they get "locked on" to the enemy and they just don't miss, like ever. My aims gotten better over the years too and sometimes I just get STOMPED
It is so bad that I never wanna play warzone with my buddies on console anymore. You can out maneuver someone so bad but still be killed with a drop shot even after being first to fire.
Sadly because a good majority of the player base is on controller for the cross-play games it would only hurt the company's bottom line to reduce the power of AA which is why they haven't done so already
They don't need to reduce it, they just need to enable input based matchmaking. Though of course that only solves the problem for KBM players. And not the fact that it does also destroy the skill gap for controller players too.
@@namesii1880 not enough KB&M users though to fill a lobby remotely fast and the ping would be outrageous
bro like 90-95% of the playerbase plays on controller, there's no way a lobby fills with only KBM players @@namesii1880
Exactly nobody plays MKB anymore and its not worth catering to them anymore. Just keep in mind all the roller players have zero skill
Bro I did a math project in 8th grade on Ghosts TTKs (gun to gun) because of your videos 😂 crazy to hear someone is doing a Master's Thesis on the same general topic.
That's me. And yes, it's kinda crazy.
@@Onc3Holy Unfortunately for us both, I like crazy.
When im playing kbm, i cant confidently go into gunfights like i do when im using a controller. Its just so unsatisfying to do good with a controller when you know how strong aa is. Also take into account the aim assist tracks enemies on a server and latency level. Kbm players have to react and adjust solely on visuals. AA will track where the hit ox is not just where it looks like it is
Yep, MW3 just got uninstalled and is honestly the last COD I ever buy
Me too
As a controller player even I agree that aim assist is way too strong in most fps games. I'm assuming that the reason why is because of money. More aa makes games more accessible which means more players and more money.
Thank you
Depends on the game. The “strength” of COD AA has not substantially changed over time-only the range. Xclusive Ace has debunked this myth.
There are only a few games I do controller for while the rest I keep to with MnK; mainly for how snappy I can be in aiming and shooting something vs. how slow the controllers directional right thumbstick will limit me to doing that will determine if my reaction time helps me to win. As goes for making project videos that require cinematics or acting like a floating camera, controller wins in that scenario 9/10. Subjectively speaking, it's like the programming in controllers is more specifically tuned for the purpose of having the smoothest directional game play for what the player is seeing in front of them whereas the mouse is geared for timing, accuracy, and precision and the freedom to quickly aim at a target in a split second.
In multiple situations I’ve gotten free kills from Aim-Assist slowing my aim through objects, smoke & water.
Most notably yesterday on Favela… pre-aiming a door across the map I had my aim pull slightly… I open fired and wall banged a guy through the door.
(Roof top to spawn side balcony near the playground)
I did not deserve that kill.
Just like I'm sure you got plenty of ez kills for having way more control over your weapon due to mouse and keyboard. Do you want to keep tally marks ? I guarantee you the amount of times aim assist saves you is way less than the amount of times you get a kill because of mouse and keyboard advantages... Which literally helps you out every single interaction. With a mouse and keyboard you can maintain a super fast sensitivity but still be accurate as all hell when you have to. Not to mention the benefits of the keyboard which allows you to make any button accessible in any manner you choose. But sure the 4-5 times aim assist pulled through some smoke is so much more beneficial.
you are talking absolute bollocks you dont even have to control the recoil the aim assist does it for you thats why you controller phagz jump around all the time aim assist allows you to because its locked onto you @@swiftblaqness
@@tonyconnor5691 yeah right Bud clearly never used a controller. There are people with garbage as s aim even with it. It's a minor help at best. But when compared against the advantages of a mouse and keyboard it's almost even now. I didn't hear PC boys whining about how their mouse and keyboard were better than controllers LoL
@@swiftblaqness it is obviously you need a mechanical aid clearly because you are incapable of killing anyone without aim assist and tracking done for you,
@@tonyconnor5691 lmfao yeah because using your thumb only to articulate a movement is much less acurate than a mouse has much more range of motion. It isn't rocket science pal
I’ve been playing on pc for a year already. I just picked up Mw3 a few days ago. Last time i played cod was Modern Warfare (2019).
Anyways I plugged in my controller and you can just feel the aim assist going towards the enemy. Literally just aim your gun at the opponent and it’ll start following them.
Hot take… cross play needs to go. I’ll get less cheaters on console and mnk players won’t have to worry about controller aim assist and we all win :)
I just want to double your effort to say it has nothing at all to do with crossplay. You can plug a controller into a computer which makes this entire point obvious. The reason people were worried about crossplay was controller users on consoles were scared of how good MnK players would be against controller. But the simple fact is that MnK has been equal to or worse than controller since at the latest MW2019 if not a couple games before that. Sure back in BO1 or BO2 MnK would have dominated, but since 2019 aim assist has had infinite range on controller which completely defeats MnK.
edit: I will add here. Aim Assist has stopped being an assist, it is now far closer to Aim Bot than anything else. Rotational aim assist combined with the fact the distance to trigger it is damn near infinite given any regular COD map literally means you aim with your left stick BETTER than if you even use your right stick at all (unless you are on mega low sensitivity)
I'd say about BO3. I honestly used to turn off aim assist all the time because the pull at CQC when I was using shotguns could go so crazy it would make me miss shots. Noticed in BO3 that when I said "Screw it" and turned it on, my ttk was a lot more consistent.
But that's off personal feel. I miss being able to have aim assist off on controller.
God bless you ! Keep on doing what you do. Your an inspiration to those who face difficulties but still try to live their dream the best they can
I personally think cross play is a good thing, but at least the quick play level there should be an option to limit crossplay to the same input (Sticks vs sticks and M&K/M&K)
The problem... Is that there's hardly any KBM players to populate the lobbies to the extent of that MASSIVE controller playerbase
@@shadowtitan8545 that's fair, I don't think it should be forced input matching at least in quick play, but an option you can select. I think the best option though would to nerf/remove this wobble, sway or whatever it is. But the skeptic in me thinks if they did that, the controllers players would start complaining, and there's a lot more controller players overall compared to M&K even if % of complainers on both sides is the same.
@@shadowtitan8545 A lot of PC players have switched to controller due to the advantage it gives. But the new CoD games are massive on PC, so there definitely is more than enough KBM players. I mean I had no issues playing Black Ops 3 when there were like 4k users online on PC, so that argument doesn't add up at all. Also those who quit might return, or people who switched to controller may switch back. At least personally I won't be playing CoD again until they do something about the AA problem, it is legal cheats.
@@namesii1880 I'm not saying the playerbase for PC is low dude I said the playerbase on PC with KBM is way lower than the controller PC population. And if there was a input based matchmaking for KBM only or Controller only players would most likely increase matchmaking times and lower ping quality even more because the system is accounting for another variable to search for. I'm not saying it's impossible but this matchmaking system is definitely holding this solution back IMO.
I am under the belief for competitive shooters or most shooters in general that involving vs other people, no aim assist should be allowed. Creates a unfair advantage by default. Sometimes aim assist causes misses but it's gotten better now with even more aim assist options taking skill out of aiming by a decent margin.
Some sort of aim assist is definetly needed, however the level is just too cranked up in COD. I remember watching COD players trying out xDefiant and struggling because the AA was just that much lower.
@@keeperrr96 to me aim assist is just straight up cheating cause even with low zoom, low visibility iron sights you can slow your aim & hone in & beam people who have sniper rifles with optics cause aim assist did allow some degree of ability to detect the enemy first & even land hits on them before a sniper even could who lets say turned off his aim assist.
That certainly doesn't make sense. Aim assist effects gameplay balance & takes away skill of actually aiming the weapon at vital areas like headshots & chest for better kills & winning the gunfight & sometimes aim assist can actually fight a good players aim causing them to miss cause aim assist was on & annoying. I turn it off unlike the past. It takes away a lot of legitimate gameplay factors like stealth even as aim assist allows you to detect people basically.
Disability settings like colour blind I'm okay with makes lots of sense. But aim assist honestly is a bit game breaking from a advantage stand point as well as breaks immersion & realism.
Real human soldiers typically don't have aim assist of course.
If there was 0 aim assist on controller someone who played cod for a month on kbm would just totally stomp cod vets on controller. Try playing a shooter with no aim assist on controller, it wouldn’t work in a game like cod.
I play both controller and mouse and keyboard without aim assist on both and prefer it that way. Precision style aim assist is what I used when cod allowed me in the options menu in newer installments. I find giving the player no aiming or enemy indicators is more immersive for me as a player too as it makes situations with enemies more believeable and less of "Just aim for the red name". Another reason why I prefered hardcore over core in COD having no names or crosshair made the ambience come out more and made gunfights far more immersive.
But I stopped using it on controller even when I realized that even with controller aim assist actually threw off my aim at times when I was trying to aim for the head it could throw me off to a limb for some reason or the stomach instead etc.
I will always hate aim assist. It's lazy and takes away skill of actually having to aim at targets with precision movements of your hand.
Definitely a case of git gud. I have disabilities myself so this isn't a disability related issue unless of course that person really can't legitimately aim beyond just a skill issue and maybe a physical aliment.
Multiplayer shooters of the past on console and PC actually didn't even have aim assist, just a red indicator that's the enemy and that's it. Old counter strike doesn't really have much of that even.
I am also biased, because i come from the realism, tactical shooter world where aim assist is frowned upon and knowing how to aim is a big deal in that world.
@@TheRealConflictedGaming
@maxmanic2 did you read what mandem said ?. Top 100 controller players without aim assist would get smoked by top 100 kbm. And yet you think it's a skill issue 😂 🤡
This has been the case since MW2019, anyone who says otherwise plays with controller. Because of the hopping and sliding auto aim latches to players while AD strafing is difficult ot keep up with on M&K. It's not even an argument anymore, Halo Infinite proved this even further with the stats they released about the average K/D and accuracy rates for controller users. It's like this in literally every single crossplay game.
like... the sniping... OOF no?
idk bro, for the last few CODs w cross play i would get excited when i was the only M&K in the lobby because controller player were so much easier to play against. i haven’t played MW3 yet though.
Yeah cs on controller is busted
Halo didn't release those stats, some butthurt M&K player did.
The top 100 controller players are all Halo pros, whereas the top 100 M&K players are all nobodies. And the average Halo player has far more experience on controller than M&K because Halo has traditionally been a console exclusive.
And the reason he didn't include the bottom 10% of players, is because those are all noobs where Halo experience isn't a factor and would probably show M&K as having an advantage. Don't get me wrong, controller definitely had an advantage at the higher levels of competition, but the guy who made that chart was purposefully trying to be misleading.
@@ThunderHOWL16 why are u lying
I played console for 10 years, switched to MnK PC on MW19 after 1 year. It was somewhat balanced in that game since the actual visibility and cantering was good.
All games after that one feel off on MnK.
Been playing lots of The Finals instead.
I 2nd this - MW19 MnK felt so nice
The visibility was garbage. What are you saying? Lol. Infinity Wars games are always horrible in this capacity. They love their grayscale, dark games.
I'm a pc player and I don't play COD too much, to be honest I never heard of aiming assist until today. But during my last Warzone Games, I noticed that I got killed very easy on the kill cams, even when I had a big chance to get that kill. The other player jumped and got a perfect kill without missing a single bullet. Now I see why...this skkkkssss 😴😴
i think the higher ttk and movement in games really brought it out. mw3 is the perfect example of what happens when you give one demographic everything they want. there is really only one playstyle in games now and its gorilla ( in your face which is controller gameplay)
IDK I feel like you killed faster in old CoDs more than modern ones. It's why I dropped the newer games. I prefered Blops 1 and such to say MW2019. You can't make big plays in casual cause of this, and in all honesty I don't play to be a sweat lord I play to see a killfeed light up.
TTK is lower in MW3. Pretty sure HP was buffed to 150.
the fix is simple. keep crossplay. just have a seperate no aim assist lobby to aim assist lobby. we can jump between them freely. you dont lose players. everyones happy
But if you mention this on Reddit, you get flamed by controller players that say you’re overreacting and just need to “git gud.” Thanks for being on the right side of this issue, Drift0r.
So based on what Driftor is saying, shouldn't I struggle more playing only in xbox controller lobbies? (I'm also on xbox) and less against PC MKB players when I turn cross play on? Well that's simply not my experience at all. The majority of the PC MKB players I play against, have some other advantage over me. To me it seems to be a platform advantage. Frames win games. Higher FPS on PC will always be an advantage. More so than any aim assist.
I would guess that roughly 20% of the PC playerbase actually get more frames than the current gen consoles. To get more than 120fps at 1440p you need a £1500 pc minimum and most just dont have that.@@tubedinoz
@@tubedinoz Console is for casuals thats why you have a better time. Players just arent as serious as PC players.
@@tubedinoz saying that they an "advantage" for higher fps is stupid, almost every PC player plays on controller just becuase is busted, u are just avoiding the real talk here.
LOL "more so than any aim assist" HAHAHHAHAHA bet ur just bad at the game
@@gappy3799 you bet I'm bad at the game, based on what? The delusions in your head? Do you often just make stuff up? Haha.
only 3 options. 1. remove aim assist, 2. give mnk aim assist, 3. create input device specific lobbies (including a 'cross-input') You can't balance a shotgun and a BB bun to be even. Just can't do it.
this is why input based matchmaking is necessary on every shooter
A decent MNK player can transition so easy to controller. But never the other way around. That says alot already lol.
Sadly I think Activision is more
concerned about their bottom line than creating a perfect balance between the inputs. Especially considering how small the mnk community is, why would they risk losing controller players just to satisfy 5-10% of the player base? I really don’t see them changing anything.
There is no perfect balance. It cannot be done. Anyone saying otherwise is a lying asshole. You cannot take an imprecise tool and use software to make it as good or better than the more precise tool and have it work well. AA is a constant. It will never change no matter how you play. Truthfully your own play will fluctuate through the day on MNK. You fatigue less, you can play longer, you're more consistent and you simply play better on a controller thanks to software. You also have to take into account inhuman reaction times no MNK player will ever have.
MNK players deserve their own lobbies. When they get that, the numbers will go up again because MNK players are no longer being cheated by bullet glue.
@@elimgarak1127I think there’s a number of tweaks that they could make to at least make the aim assist harder to abuse. For one, they could reduce the sensitivity while hip firing so that it doesn’t fully activate until you’re actually aiming. They could also disable it while sprinting so that it could prevent the rapid turn around that happens now when somebody runs past their aim assist bubble. And they could also tie rotational aim assist more heavily to the right stick, so that again, you have to actually be AIMING to activate AIM assist rather than just strafe which is the most ridiculous part of RAA.
I use whatever is preferred in each specific game. Im a bit better at controller in general, but Input based match making needs to be a thing
I don’t want to play with PC players regardless of input…
We have been blinded by Cronus
Honestly, half the time it’s literal aimbot. People really act like over 60% of high tier lobbies aren’t hacking.
This alongside silly mechanics and SBMM/EOMM are the main reasons why I haven't bought MWII and MWIII.
Isn't it simply a tuning problem? They can plot the accuracy of the players as you did in this video, and drag down aim assist effectiveness until the mean accuracy of the 50th percentile players are roughly the same.
Yes
I think something more than just the raw strength of aim assist needs tuning. Even weaker, the instant reaction of aim assist will still be present, and allow players to win gunfights purely off of reaction speed, or lack there of. Turning the overall strength down to have an overall balance will then have controller still too strong in some fights, and too weak in others, rather than a more flat overall playing field. Obviously it’d be better than nothing, but I’d like to see something more creative.
@@Adam-pk7go That gave me an idea - making the reaction speed variable and dependent on the background of the target. If AA wouldn't lock on to a target in a dark environment (or took much longer to do it) it might level it out a bit. Meanwhile, if a target is in the open and silhouetted, it could make the reaction speed faster.
@@VioIetShift i think that would add a bit of frustrating inconsistency outside of your control. Ideally what i would want is in order for rotational to kick in when a target moves in the opposite direction of your aim, you have to start moving your stick the opposite direction (as in beginning to cross over the deadzone from left to right) either above a speed threshold, or a certain % threshold. So pretty much you would get rotational as soon as you react to the target changing direction, but not without your own input, and also not having to wait until you fully cross the stick deadzone.
@@Adam-pk7go That seems like a really good idea.
It honestly feels like very little thought was put into how to make it an assist rather than just a halfway-aimbot.
When cross-play first came out I was a huge advocate for it on everything and still am to a degree. Now after seeing the effects on certain types of games like fps I don't think it fits with everything. Some things cannot be balanced correctly.
I think the only hole with your data is there is no data on response times in relation to hit in ms. There is no disagreement that an entire thumb will out perform a snap motion than an entire arm. The accuracy spread I think is more so bc the thumbs get the assist bc we cannot surely track as easy an entire arm.
You mentioned the RNG thing mw3 implemented with the swaying and the aim assist on controller is mitigating that PARTICULAR thing could be more so why pros are going to controllers. MnK has been such ahead of controller up until recently, lets be honest here lol
Just like SBMM, they will not talk about it and not change it (nerf). These big corps want money and will never do anything that hurts the majority of their players. Will never happen
Back in the day, aim assist only consisted of your general x and y direction. Rotational aim assist essentially closes the gap between a good player and bad player on controller. MnK cannot get slowdown in smoke effect or visual disturbance on screen that aim assist does for controller. Not sure what can be done to bring MnK on par with how strong controller play is.
Rotational assist has always been in COD (at least since COD 4). This has been tested by Xclusive Ace and verified.
I like how we have gone from mnk dominance to controller dominance so they have proven they can make both better they just need to make it balanced
what do you mean mouse and keyboard is your own aim aim assist is literally a soft aim bot it tracks for you once it grabs onto you you cant get it off of you if i jump shot on mouse and keyboard i will miss shots aim assist doesnt let you miss shots thats why you controller phagz are always jumping around like a idiot, the aim assist allows you to play like a phag
i think we need to stop calling it an assist because it is not an assist, its no different then an aim bot
Ain't no fun when the rabbit got the gun huh PC "master race" 🤣🤣
Switched to controller myself for a short time when I picked up a console. Hit apex pred in apex in s17 first week into the split. Didn't take me long to relearn roller after a 10 year hiatus.
Thought about staying on roller when I went back to PC, but why should I give up all the years of experience on pc fps games and the few hundred hours of aim training in kovaaks to have more consistent aim in close/mid range fights? Inputs should be split. Simple as that.
Recently I’m just trying to camouflage grind the marksman rifles, every now and then I get some annoying try hard with the ACR and unreal aim killing me by the time I barely see him. I check their profile and it’s always with a controller.
I'm 39, been playing competitive FPS games since their inception. I stopped playing them when I started losing consistently to controller players. At first I thought they were outright hacking. Then I saw the terrible, mechanical movement and realized they were just using controller. Then that started happening every game. I tired controller abs laughed out loud when I saw how strong the Aim assist was on apex and cod. But I didn't want to use controller and I didn't want to keep getting dunked on by controller players so I just called it quits. Those were the games I liked, so I don't do much anymore. Just work, TV and reading.
to me you are omitting aspects of FPS games outside of accuracy ... which is movement.. i cant move like a mouse and key player, i can 180 and snap like they can for example.. i can spectate and can tell if they are mouse and key vs controller due to hoe they look around and aim
You certainly can move like MnK players on COD... You also happen to have aimassist that immediately reacts to a target, negating reaction time, and have rotational AA for close quarters engagements. The Y-Y, slide cancel, tiktok movement is almost always a controller player. I Y-Y and slide cancel on MnK too but ignoring the fact that controller can do it just as well and have aim assist is just silly of you. I only play SnD, quite literally 20 ish matches of respawn for certain challenges-- over 2000 matches total of SnD--I play controller maybe %5-10 of the time and I can play almost as good as I do on MnK, sometimes better depending on the map and enemy routes/playstyle. Aim assist is just too strong if someone like me who gave up on controller years ago can plug it in at my ELO/SBMM/EOMM in SnD and play just as well. ESPECIALLY with the state of balance of this game atm.
@@coreytaylor7367 yes i am sure that some people can move very well with a controller, AND have aim assit that is strong... me as a 1.2 kd player cant, so im well aware maybe i shoud just get better haha
I tried the Discord link but it’s showing expired? Did he get all the people he needed or is it a technical error because I would love to help.
I think the main thing working in controller's favour right now, is console players are only recently figuring out the value of high-refresh gaming, and game-devs are putting out 120fps games. So all that muscle memory at 30 and 60fps is still there, and now there's just way more frames to react to stimulus than they're used to be. Maybe if console players had to play at 30 or 60 fps it'd be a dead even distribution between the two, but now with high framerate games readily available, controller is just advantageous all around.
I'm a MnK guy since a kid, but moving to controller feels great ASSUMING it's a game running at 120fps. Playing Doom Eternal, Fortnite, Battlefield V, Modern Warfare 2019, all stuff I did on PC, but on console it just feels fresh and interesting, I like learning the nuances, and I like competing against others with the same input - I can just git gud. Moving to controller kind-of re-envigorated a desire I lost in my 20s of learning something new and working to perfect something. I have a long way to go, but I'm super motivated to keep trying. Helps too that I can do this from my couch with my kid and not feel cramped or disadvantaged, vs. having to sit at a desk like it's my job.
Regardless, now that 120fps should be considered a universal assumption for top-level play, we definitely need to just nerf controller auto-aim to match that reality, no doubt.
I am so glad there are people who acknowledge this situation from the same perspective as I am
I've been saying for a little while that FPS games need to move away from aim assist (slowly and carefully) while implementing more and more robust Gyro features. we've seen in games like fortnite what players who practice gyro a bit can accomplish, and how gyro aim can remove the need for AA while keeping controllers roughly on par with MKB due to the fact that it's a true physical correlation between the controller and the aim point. Nerrel has made a series of videos about this topic and makes some very good arguments and shows some of the newer control schemes that gyro has enabled; I'd highly recommend checking them out.
I don't mean to say that they should just get rid of AA all at once, but maybe weaken it over time while advertising gyro controls as an option to players with a controller plugged in; add basic training on gyro controls to newer games that has to be completed as part of the tutorial, and then afterwards give the option to turn it off (like splatoon does) so that players are required to at least try it out. AA was born in a time where controllers couldn't be sophisticated enough to have precise in-built motion controls, and most gamers were playing on console solely with other console gamers so input balance wasn't a consideration, but to my knowledge now every controller for modern systems has gyro, so it's finally a viable option.
I feel like with a gentle enough push over time, gyro could absolutely become the dominant controller input scheme, and we could do away with overbearing aim assist models that make the game genuinely unfair. Then controller players could actually achieve higher skill ceilings as gyro controls enable much more precise gameplay. AA can still exist, but it should be undertuned specifically to avoid problems like this, and generally be advertised as an accessibility feature for players with shaky hands or other disabilities (and it should not be usable in conjunction with gyro).
Agreed. It would be cool to see what the ultimate non-handicap input method ends up being.
Best solution to this issue
For couch gaming, gyro is pretty uncomfortable. Speaking as a casual, I don't want to worry about beaning my kid over the head, just for wanting to cuddle with me while gaming. AA provides a means of relaxing with the game and letting it play more of itself, worrying about high-level meta like when to use utility or what corners to check. Removing AA would fundamentally change how console FPS games function for players.
@@nathanfranck5822 dude, proper use of gyro aiming hardly requires moving your wrists a few degrees. you're not gonna be flailing your arms around
i highly recommend searching "nerrel motion controls" on youtube, he made 2 very good videos on the subject
I play cod mw3 on pc and I rarely see any other PC player using a Keyboard and mouse. I remember when KB/M was what everyone was raving about back in the day.
PC has so many more advantages on their system as well as Keyboard&Mouse, this isn't a big issue. PC gets infinite frames and can whip around on a dime with their sensitivity, they also have far better accuracy overall(especially long range). Console and Controllers get a slightly higher aim assist this year to compensate for the many disadvantages they already have.
You don't get it. It's not pc vs console, it's kbm vs controller. You can also use a controller on pc and use kbm on a console.
The aim assist is complety broken and it's just a joke. Something like that shouldn't be in a online fps
I knew something was up with MW3 when I copied the same exact mouse settings and keybinds over from MW2, and couldn't aim like I could on MW2.
One thing that may have been overlooked in my humble opinion but based on experience, is most PC players generally has access to a both KbM and Controller (if desired). but a lot of console players like my don’t have the structure for a KbM setup for a few reasons. Chief amongst them being SPACE. My Xbox is in the living room/ family room, and anyone that does not have a man cave gaming room (and even some that do) know that wives/live-in GFs or other significant-others hate stuff that’s out like a ‘giant keyboard ’ (their words not mine). Any guy who worked out of his garage can largely share in the similarities here.
I have a console over a PC to keep the nagging down, on top of that KIDS and their grubby little fingers. I’m just glad and lucky my kids didn’t wreck any of my old consoles by putting literal sliced baloney/Bologna into a disk tray.
What about controller with AA off? Ive been doing that lately. Anytime there is a high level of talk about something i like to try a different approach
That is absolute giga-chat mode. If you play AA off controller, then you are the alpha of this entire comment section.
Yeah and then the K&M would just obiliterate you though. Controller need some form of assist. You can just point and click people with a mouse to win if you throw that out the window. Been on PC for about 4 years now and I find it super easy compared to when I was on console. Very few games do i play with a controller still.
The problem with aim assist is that it is NOT YOU who is aiming. Some people are not getting it, it has nothing to with consoles or PC. Let me repeat again, the problem with aim assist is that it is NOT YOU who is aiming. One more time NOT YOU. Before replying, I suggest you reflect upon this truth, maybe sleep on it. Its just that people dont want to adopt the more accurate hardware. Imagine a world where people with using DPADS to aim, imagine them getting aim assist to beat joysticks. Do you see??
As a MnK player i noticed in WZ1 I had around a 2.5KD where as now I'm at around a 1.47. I'm not sure if the aim assist has changed since Wz1 since I don't play controller but I do think there's a combination of things that could contribute to it. (Didn't play Wz2 as i didn't like how slow it was)
1. SBMM, the day the servers were broken with no SBMM I had some pretty dominant games against a bunch of controller players
2.Smaller player base where you'll run into more skilled players more often than not.
3. FOV being increased for console. Not saying its a bad thing they got FOV increased but this prob contributes to them being able to control recoil easier making it seem like stronger aim assist. Just my thought
They are 2 completely different inputs no matter how close you bring them one input will always have an advantage in certain situations . It’s a non argument imo it’s very simple input based matchmaking mnk only ever plays mnk , controller only plays controller as for competitive same thing have either a mnk league and a controller league or the game picks a input to play at pro level , very simple solution
PC player here, ive just resigned from pushing hard and now im playing battle rifles/snipers only. Needs a different kind of playstyle but ive adapted pretty well. Still losing a lot of my qcq gunfights
As a long time CoD and Halo guy who switched to Mouse and Keyboard when discovering Counter Strike, the aim assist nowadays, especially compared to the old tuning that was done in the older CoD's is insane. I'm a big fan of Crossplay tbh.
The fact that I can hop on CoD/Halo with a controller after not playing on it consistently and have the same performance, it can be frustrating.
I think the craziest thing is that the solution that Halo Infinite went with was giving mouse aim assist recently. Instead of reducing mouse aim assist, they actually caved and gave mouse aim assist as well.
Also, if you think the aim assist is crazy in CoD, you haven't seen it in The Finals. It has actual snap to aim assist. Like the CoD campaign type of aim assist.
Its weird because from what i played it does snap to a target but then your on your own from there
Hey drift, as always I love the content. Just to clarify a few apex stats, Alb only switched for a week or so and then switched back. Also as of last ALGS season the m&kb/controller split was still 50/50 throughout the league but we wont have stats for the upcoming season until teams are locked in.
As someone who recently switched to mouse and key for some games. I do agree this is an important topic just wanted to correct a couple things. Much love as always.
Thanks for the info!
@@Drift0r no problem! Happy new year!
To be fair, Imperialhal (a MnK player) switched to roller and won the last ALGS.
All you have to do is look at the Apex teams and their player inputs. Most have 2 roller players and either 1 or no Mnk players.
None of that contradicts the point that controller is WAY too strong.
In Apex that's somehow balanced by the many movement techniques you can do only with MnK
8:25 is exactly how controller players felt way back before this spike in aim assist when crosplay was first introduced and mnk players were crushing it compared to them ,the scales have tipped too much on the other side and this is bothersome even to a number of controller players such as myself ,i dont want stuff to be too easy for me or the game to hokd my hand too much but at the same time i dont want to sweat my balls off trying to master mnk and now controller players just get flamed even tho theyre just doing thier thing and its the systems that shifted.
And guess what that is fair since all of our kills is 100% us tracking and doing all the accuracy and adjustments you can't compare the two plz stop
@@stephenford6132 yea there isnt a comparison, they're just two input methods. Pick your favorite and play.
@@shinkiro648 we are forced to use controller at the moment
@@stephenford6132 Apex suffers similarly, right? Idk i only heard from a friend
As a roller….this is a very solid and fair take. Not to mention a nerf to aim assist would open the skill gap from controller player vs controller player
I'm at a point where if a game doesn't have input based matchmaking and has insanely strong aim assist I will just not bother playing. It is just frustrating and a waste of time to play against legal aimbots. One of the reasons I'm looking forward to xdefiant is because it should have input based MM.
Always been a controller player so imma take what I can get 😂
Unified game experience is a fine line developers have always had to navigate if they want to deal with crossplay. It could be worse. Imagine if you woke up and found they decided to make everything fair and balanced. Before you even had time to notice they toned down the aim assist you would notice the fps just dropped and was software locked at 120 or god forbid 60 with crossplay enabled. Within hours pc players would disable crossplay and we would be back where we started.
Unfortunately, we don't even get the option to disable crossplay most of the time. Let alone the option to only play with players on our same input.
I don't see it changing. I'll just won't spend my money anymore.
I played both but the scale tipped to far to the controller side last years. I enjoy knm more and don’t play Cod anymore because the disadvantage you have with it. I’ll stick to finals for now. Also battlebit and cs2 because I don’t really want to bother with sweaty controller players no more
I totally agree with you, the aim assist on wz3 and mw3 is excessive, to the point that it will take away the pleasure of playing first for MNK players and then also for those with controllers
What BS AA are ya'll using? When i play MWIII, it feels like i have next to no AA at all. I actually turned AA completely off and genuinely couldn't tell a difference. I did not do any worse with AA off.
Do you still play inverted?
Yes, but only on controller
Would not surprised me in the slightest if Microsoft and/or Sony paid for there to be a controller advantage and something happened where the advantage is now more noticeable than they would like.
Wonder how u feel about XDefiants aim assist
Gameplay elements should not favor one input over another, smoke, sway, iron sights, darkness. If you can’t see them your AA should not be kicking in. AA should also not counter bad inputs, if you over correct or over shoot you should miss.
I'm a PC MnK player, and unfortunately, I don't see them ever tuning down AA. The console market esp. for CoD is widely favored towards Controller player (whether it's console or PC rollers). So if they remove that, and controller players feel like they aren't as good, and they quit, that's a bigger majority that'll play the game rather than our tiny PC community. Also b/c CoD has always traditionally been a console game. Remember back on the days the fact that we were happy with even an okay PC port..
Which is sad because this means there will be fewer and fewer MnK players as more either quit, or move to controller.
Like you said, Apex is the best example of this. Almost all the pros now use controller. Even Hal which has played on MnK for the longest time has switched to roller because AA is that much better.
I don't think it's fair and it's frustrating but I feel they simply won't dial it down, especially CoD. Respawn may for Apex cuz it's a PC game, and it's their primary market.
I'll still play on MnK though. I've honed my aim and movement over decades and I'll just have to try harder than Timmy lol
Cross play should be removed for PC’s. Besides the influx of cheating brought by them, the advantage for top end units affects the integrity of the game.
its cod its like the bottom of the barrel for integrity also cheating is problem that is easily solved. Its just a complacent company that never gets pressured because the whole community is full of cucks that will buy the next cod no matter what happens.
There's alot of untraceable benefits from using a mouse and keyboard I think just the feel and movement looking around checking corners exct but bullets hitting targets is definitely king.
MK is pure skill. controller is inferior so they have to cheat. no one should play a fps with a controller.
@breakupgoogle I played MnK since CS 1.3 and have played plenty of Controller in CoD and BF and so on. Advantages or not FPS feels better on MnK IMO
@@breakupgoogle NGL, that's dumb as hell.
i played games since commodore 64.. KM has always been the correct device for FPS. Controller is better for FIFA. Wheel better for racing sims. the correct input feels better. @@brinaldi81
@@procprime You are 100% cheating if a computer helps you aim ...
wouldnt it make sense to tone down the rng? would be less frustrating overall.
It says the nathan’s discord link is expired
It’s almost as if they been looking at the difference since with the numbers vs roller and mink and they’ve pumped the rotational aim assist up to match the numbers… this year they bumped too much and will pull it back down. U can’t tell me the 2019 and this game are balanced the same. Just wish we had a remastered game or second year of that game seeing that it brought so many people back to cod with the release of wz.