ATVI finally acknowledges SBMM (ANALYSIS & OPINION)
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- Опубліковано 1 лют 2024
- Mixline beta: www.logitechg.com/en-us/softw...
ATVI finally acknowledged SBMM in Modern Warfare 3 via a post on the CoD blog explaining some parts of the matchmaking process. Today's video highlights important statements, analyzes the claims, and offers some of my own opinions.
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I’ve quit playing the game at this point, but as a solo player, the matchmaking literally felt like it was attacking me personally often. I would go hours without winning a single game, and I wish I were making that up.
Same bro
Having a 2kd and a 4% win rate is demotivating af
All you can do is stop playing, plenty of other games worth your attention
Had 2 kd in almost every cod and this speaks to me.
I have a friend who is awful and he gets to actually have fun lobbies while I’m stuck in sweatville
@@hcgtiger4724 that's weird. I have a 1.8K/D and a 64% win rate. What game modes do you play? Do you actually play the objective in those modes or do you just farm kills?
Longtime consistent 2kd cod player exists
“And I took that personally”
-Activision
When you see a Drift0r video pop up like its 2013, miss the consistency. I really hope your health gets better man
same dawg
My problem with SBMM is that its retention focused not fun based. It’s great having consistent matches and that aspect has improved dramatically over the years. But it’s also exhausting having the same experience match to match in casual matchmaking. They really need to make a secondary arcade playlist that does randomized matchmaking based on ping and then shuffles teams based on match performance vs breaking up lobbies every match. Then have the normal public and ranked playlists with more strict SBMM. The thing is, they’ll never do that because giving up a modicum of control over the experience would mean less sales and they HATE that.
I’ve thought about this too but I think the problem is the only people joining this particular list would be people like you and me and as a result it would have the opposite effect and only the most dedicated players would join and the same problem still exists lol
They basically admitted to rigging your matches...
Dinifitely agree with unbalanced teams. I am by no means a god player but i do well. The amount of teams i am put with where the next highest person has 10 or more less kills than me is astounding. If i am playing an objective mode, teammates just seem to think it’s deathmatch.
That thumbnail image of "Sexy Captain Price" is absolutely cursed. XD
:)
The SBMM is more aggressive than some actual ranked modes in games lol
That’s because the game is infested with try hard Gfuel snorting TTV losers who play like they’re the gonna be the next big streamer or CDL player.. kids nowadays take the game way too serious that’s why the game is no longer fun like older cods
@@MarioYalda95since when was being good a bad thing lmaoo, our problem isn’t tryhards being on the game, They just shouldn’t put 2 tryhards in the same game
Yeah, in ranked at least you'll usually get decent teammates.
You sure that’s not just because the median match contains better players than you?
@@deriznohappehquite
Yes I’m quite sure lol
Fazejev said it best: "ping is not king, its one of 8 princes"
The SBMM has caused me to play less call of duty than i used to so i guess it does what its supposed to. I just dont have fun with my lobbies so i turn it off
Something's very fishy about this ping is King crap, when they put you in a high-skill Lobby your ping is higher, so it gives you connectivity issues like hit registration, my aim assist goes Haywire, then all of a sudden I'm having trouble hitting my shots, I'm a cod vet, been playing since xbox360 so wtf, makes me feel like I'm a noob smh
That's what I'm saying. I have great internet but i get consistent 60-80 ping lobbies with packet loss and going against insane players.
@@norris_ej6 then after a few terrible games where I'm struggling the whole time trying to stay positive, all of a sudden in comes a game where I'm consistently hitting all my shots and aim assist is working like normal sticking to my targets, then it makes me think I've learned from my mistakes and I'm getting better then a few games later I'm back to Noob mode, very sketchy
I was one of the best players in the world from COD4 through to BO2, I was on the top page of the mlg leader boards regularly, and pubstomped with people at the top of the in-game leader boards like j1m5k1 and yardyrob, I was often on the top page of weekly leaderboards myself. So there's not many people who played those games as much as I did and knew as much about them and I guarantee that SBMM either didn't exist or was just irrelevant. Activision, just as you would expect at this point, are straight up lying about it, those games never had the SBMM that's a problem now, and I would bet my life on it. If I had to guess I would say MW3 is where modern SBMM was added, 90% of the good players I knew quit during that game due how bad it was, the map design being chaotic garbage didn't help.
I wouldn't believe a single word on that page, honestly Activision are such disgusting scum that lying and trying to gaslight people is obviously the first thing they are trying. People aren't going to buy it though thankfully.
Good luck with the hands appointment bro. Praying for you.
I was waiting for your video to learn about this, instead of others
”As long as you don’t tell the whole truth it’s not considered lying”
- Activision
THE DRIFT0R MOVEMENT IS STARTING LADS. Ready for the next vid!
Great video drift0r !
I used to go 50/12 in an average match of BO3. I just went 0/8 in back to back plunder matches last night. I've been going negative in most of my lockdown matches. Its just getting more and more ridiculous. I imagine I will eventually reach a plateau of frustration and become apathetic as well. Which will also likely be when I finally stop playing since that's what happened with Overwatch.
The problem with games that are out for many years is that the player base gets good as time goes on. This happens to every game eventually. When the game first comes out everyone is terrible and so finding small advantages pays off big. Years later once everyone is good at the game, it’s not as fun because we can’t use those early advantages in our favor anymore. Happened to Overwatch, happened to Fortnite, happened to halo, happened to Apex, happened to League of legends, and it has happened to cod.
Hey Drift0r. Been a fan for yearssss. Do you think there's any chance you would reboot the ghost stories series, or the epic dreams series? I watch your storytime videos probably four times a year because I love the nostalgia and vibe of the vids. I would love if you made some more videos with that sort of vibe nowadays... Anyways, great video man, you'll always be my favourite UA-camr :)
I have one more coming for 2024
@@Drift0r Now you got me excited LOL. Can’t wait :))
100% agree with this. I’ve just played Rustment and had the same team and the same enemy team for 3 games in a row and got stomped. There’s something hiding in the shadows that Activision don’t want to admit as this game feels like I’m at a casino slot machine waiting for a big win.
the biggest issue i've noticed with SBMM is that it directly conflicts with with the game mechanic of killstreaks, and how they seem to utilize the metric of k/d. players have used k/d as a metric of skill, but the algorithm seems to use it as a metric of skill improvement, with the goal to keep it around 1.0. as a result, this directly conflicts with the game mechanic of killstreaks, a mechanic that requires you to have a k/d greater than 1.0
You can tell by the extra corporate wording on this response that they are only telling half truths. Probably had lawyers write it very carefully to sound as close to what we want to hear as possible without blatantly lying.
Hey Drift0r have ya ever made a video about your bed gaming setup. As someone with a bad back I could use your setup so badly but idk how you made it.
yup, its about 15 videos back
@@Drift0r oh good thank you so much 👍
Very interesting thanks for the video
I am very looking forward to the next video
That transition was epic
Now they have to admit to skill based damage, and pay to win bundles that's been in modern warfare 2 and modern warfare 3
That zip hoodie is sick, is it custom ?
Time played is not a factor in order to dissuade smurfing. If people found out that 'time played' determines your lobbies, smurf accounts will most likely be placed in bottom tier lobbies more often.
Ahhhh, that makes sense.
I have Ataxia. It worse in my hands, legs and eyes. I constantly go 3-10something over it. Yet I am constantly put in games against CDL pros
I have to carry a lot of games, solo players get punished for scoring well and have to carry bottom end players who are in a completely oblivious to the game's challenges and mechanics while my opponents are highly aware and coordinated.
PREACH
I just don’t when it gets to the point I have 7-10 more kills then my teammates I just rubber band the controller and load up the bong not worth my time to help everyone else have a good time I’m in the game for me myself and I idgaf about anything but my own enjoyment
SBMM is just the demon that won't go away
Thank you Brad you're the best my friend
Thoughts on play-time based matching? Casual matches with casual, hardcore filters into hardcore lobbies
The fact that they’ve even addressed it at this point is a step in the right direction.
If you think that was a legit explanation and not a pile of BS lies I don't think there's any hope for you bro
They admitted that there is a system, but the details they mentioned can't be true, or they left a huge chunk of information out of it.
We all know what we experienced and feel, and it fits perfectly to some shady patents they hold …
Player retention soon I sense some bullshit I turn the game right off
If anyone's opinion I will trust the most on this topic, it's driftor's. Been in the cod yt game for a decade and a half
I solo queue and always get matched up against parties so over the weekend I've stopped using quick play and only playing the playlist modes. Ngl I've had a lot of fun and tried out some modes I haven't played before too
Bro i remember when you could queue with a 6 man and it found games instantly but then they started to use SBMM and then it started to take longer and longer
Glad to see you back on the controller. Roller is meta.
DRIFTOR..... that tool you shared with us is going to be an absolute asset in my music career thank you!
Great to hear!
Idk if it’s just me being in Hawaii but 10v10 feels much more mixed and funny enough there are literally players in this gameplay of yours who I have run into in 10v10! Funny stuff
Presuming they had a gameplan for this blog interview, the were probably briefed prior as to how they should respond and provide answers to the interviewers questions. I feel like for these types on sensitive topics, you need to have someone who can ask very specific questions and phish/probe for answers. Because many of their answers to these generally broad questions have borderline vague or "read between the lines", even ambiguous answers. Many of which, seem like they could be interpreted a number of ways or imply something to the contrary. Meaning theyre trying very hard to avoid or bend the truth without blatantly lying and catching a case. For example the question about matchmaking affecting gameplay elements. The matchmaking is designed to put into a lobby based on a number of factors. The gameplay elements(your experiences) are affected by another or multiple other systems in place based on a number of factors, not the matchmaking system lol...at least not likely. Some of those peculiar patents come to mind...But they wouldnt explicitly tell us that
Also, the data they speak that they work off of, is being interpreted by someone or multiple people. Likely who do not play COD and has not have had these questionable gameplay experiences for the last near decade. If we could see the data they use, the playerbase could very likely have a different interpretation of said data and give differing opinions on solutions to these "issues" they speak of. But that wont happen
Is the ping in the top left hand corner a round trip or one way, do we know?
I really being able to tell you were improving in the game.
There's no way they prioritise ping or wait time over sbmm lol
I just want to know how far they go back as far as your stats....do they consider your stats in older CoDs. I heard that they do use your performance in older CoDs to determine where to place you. Just hoped to get some clarification.
The thing they really need to do is allow you to clamp your ping. Theres NO excuse for me, an Arizona resident, to be on the london servers.
I can find matches faster in the old cod games, than I can the new ones, so skill based matchmaking has nothing to do with that.
I'm a long time cod player currently in college, so I don't play anywhere as much as I used too. Skill wise I'm still above average, but my god my lobbies are unplayable, I get consistent 60-80 ping lobbies with some packet loss and playing against what feels like aspiring pro players. I've all but given up on playing cod.
So last year, 2023, I bought most of the old cods on sale, BO2 WAW and MW3 (2009). So, I played that last year. On my Xbox one. Sure not all lobbies are clean. But man, I’ll never touch a new cod.
SBMM killed mp.
I’m good but I don’t want to sweat.
Something important to note about weighting. Sure ping can be the most weighted, so it theoretically tries to connect you to a decent'ish ping lobby. Lets say it has a pool of a hundred thousand to pull from, that should be a very easy task to achieve, meaning the next few options can be hyper aggressive like SBMM, because that initial weighted ping was very easy to achieve. Point being the entire blog post is misdirection without actually eluding to anything useful, in other words ping can be king without actually being the most meaningful and impactful factor to your game. Incidentally this game is the worst experience as a half-decent solo player, you will at least 80% of the time be expected to carry, and sometimes it is like carrying complete dead weight.
This thumbail is WILD
I think you get put on border crossing a lot because many quit out of those games when they see the selected map. They prioritise backfilling.
I just hate how hard it is to play with friends. There’s 5-6 guys I play with and some are very bad so when they play with me they can’t hardly even get a kill.
Can't wait to see how you can make skill based matchmaking a lot less can't wait for your next video
Coming soon!
@@Drift0r awesome 👍🏻😎👍🏻
I play about half the time with a full squad of good players, half time solo. And when I'm solo, I get ALL the window-lickers on my team! despite my best efforts, and often being the highest score player in the lobby, it's near impossible to get a solo win.
2:45 XAce made a good point on this where players are more likely to quit out of the bad maps, therefore you are much more likely to be backfilled into a match in progress on the worse maps with constant disbanding lobbies.
5:30 I'm with you on this one, I'm suspicious that a factor in skill matching might factor "experience" as in how many previous COD games you have played on your account, and will give preferential matching to new players with no previous CODs on their record. I know they said time played has no effect, but this really makes no sense, this should honestly be the biggest factor in casual matchmaking next to connection IMO.
Whats crazy is i have had none of the issues outlined here...some games i roll, some games i get rolled...sometimes my team is great and sometimes im playing with 3 year olds....my biggest problem is with the spawning...too many times i have been spawned ontop of someone or they on me...noone likes to get killed when you take just one step
My experience has been fluid and I hate it. Thinking to myself, "I should stop getting kills so my next game isn't a stomping" is something I do now. It doesn't usually work so I'm assuming longest killstreak comes into play for match making to which keep the rollercoaster going.
I'm not saying you're not on a perma pro list but at my level (which isn't high) the rollercoaster recency bias match making is definitely real
245-91 score is crazy in this game
I'm really enjoying this game. It seems that they dialed SBMM back a bit and nothing like MW2
My WZ has just stayed the same. Insanely hard constantly dyeing. Every other iteration of WZ there was some variance and there were hard game but there were also easy one. This my kd has halved and it’s only getting harder
On steam there down to 80 thousand to 100 thousand players from 490 thousand players since November so they only have there self to blame
I only have easy lobbies when I play with my brother. If I hop in solo, I have to use meta weapons and play sweaty, and I'm not even that good. I have a 1.18 KD but I feel like I'm getting matched up with people that clearly cloned Handler or have him in their basement playing for them.
Ping is basically primus inter pares.
The algorithm not considering a player's time played makes perfect sense, actually. I've played CoD for years and get swamped by kids who popped out of the womb 5 hours ago.
Haven't played since MW19 came out. Swished some noobies game 1 on the beta 25-8 (I'm historically a 2.5-3.0) and then struggled to hold a 1.4 thereafter. Instantly knew something was off, I just wasn't 100% sure if it was the dogshit maps with the doors & people camping or something else.
After grinding out mastery camos/challenges I can say I absolutely love the core mechanics of MW3 as a game, but the SBMM genuinely makes you feel like your loses are helpless and forced rather than a lack of your own performance.
Verdansk says we’re much better. Not just cause the map. I felt like I could actually just have fun and not always have to sure the most meta guns and sweat hard every game.
What gun is this?
I could only play this game with my friends because they distract me from how hard the matches are. I literally can’t play solo anymore in anything, zombies or multiplayer…
I play only knife in public games and have positive kda, mostly finishing in top. I don't care game W/L. I don't camp, I run like mofo in every corner of map. The strange thing I've noticed, from shipment/rust to wasteland/derail, let's say I have 14 knife kills, 7-8 of from the same dude. And all my lobbies are 200-250 level players.
Somehow game even calculates who use what kind of weapon and which routes too.
I’ve pretty much stopped playing the game. I jump on occasionally and I don’t have a good time. I enjoyed the likes of MW19 and Cold War. It started with Vanguard for me that my level of enjoyed started to go down. MW2 was decent but also started noticing things not right and the swing of good vs bad matches. Now in MW3 I’m constantly getting smoked in lobbies by tryhards. It’ll bump me down for a decent match once in a while then BOOM back up to CDL. I don’t have time for the rollercoaster and match swing anymore. I’ll give my time to something I can enjoy more.
Much rather people of similar skill level to me in my matches then those who are far better or worse then me. It only makes sense. You don’t mix NFL players with college and high school players. People just wanna dominate and yeah, it can be fun, but If I wanna do something like that, I’d play a private match against bots.
Matchmaking finally works the way it does in every other FPS game and CoD players hate it.
"Casual" modes in Overwatch, CS, Valorant, etc. have always had SBMM.
CoD had SBMM years ago. These days it's evolved into the more sinister EOMM
They should give us an option to turn off SBMM in the game setting like cross play option.. let people decide how to play the game. If bad players don’t want to get stumped and get good at the game they can have their SBMM on and if causals players just want to play with their friends and have fun they can have SBMM off.. it is pretty simple..
I don't think time played should be factored in because everyone has a different skill ceiling where they reach the limits of what their body is capable of and as such they level out. Also some people will play a ton, get burned out after 2000 hours or whatever then try to get back into it after some months or a year but then they'll be playing against someone who accumulated that amount of time recently and get obliterated.
I dont think sbmm has no place in cod but a very simple system that just makes sure someone doesn't go on a 10 game loss streak not one that is trying to sort through 100s of diffreht stats
They state that the average player quits after many loss…..SBMM does that already I’m losing cuz of SBMM and I’m quitting for the day
I have the same problem with my account it's like I am going against pro players on search every game. Almost feels shadowbanny!
I was thinking that maybe given your historical gameplay behaviour, you may be tagged as a objective orientated player with a consistent KDR. That may be enough for the game to place you with weaker team mates so you lead the charge.
I have to concur on the lack of fluidity regarding your personal gameplay history. I used to absolutely sweat like mad in the early COD days but now Ill play maybe a dozen matches if that every other COD release if I choose to get one on a whim. I really am quite rusty at this point. However man those matches truly are something else... I really feel like a fish out of water with how skilled the lobbies are. It almost feels like the skill matching is asessing me from 5 years ago
This is ATVIs way of keeping face, i feel. "We've addressed it, answered some FAQs" but theyll never give a breakdown of how matches are truely based
This is the everymans wikipedia explanation. Id say im average at at the game, hanging around a .95. Just play with friends or grind the master camos. .95 feels like in a ranked match. Theres definitely something in their algorithm that generates theres lobbies. Ive been doing snipers recently, and im ready to Jack Torrence my head through a wall
Did you dye your hair?
2KD player: I would like to have some fun
Activision: What's that? I couldn't hear you over the sound of SBMM?
2KD player: I WANT TO HAVE FUN AND NOT TRYHARD EVERY GAME
Activision: YOU WANT A CHALLENGE? WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY SO!!
Imo, they need to remove a few factors from the matchmaking system. I don't have too much of an issue with SBMM but it being the way it is, is THE reason I quit Cod altogether. I have not bought a title since Cold War, and I specifically got it for Zombies and that mode only.
Whenever I express my opinions on this topic people always assume I just want easier lobbies, which isn't the case. I just don't want to be in unranked tournament mode, 24/7. Back in the day skill difference was all over the place. You'd get sweaty lobbies every now and then but it was mostly very casual. Nowadays, it's not casual.
If you want casual Cod, you almost have to play at a pro level and stay comfortable at that skill level.
I'm glad they at least acknowledged it
It's a PR statement, no point trying to analyze it in-depth. Like you noted half of it makes no sense - there is NO WAY that ranked players would find a 2 minute queue game breaking if it reduced their chances of facing teams ranked far above them.
Simple truth is Activision managed to convince themselves that PERFOMANCE (not skill) based match making results in better player retention (logins, minutes played) which is pretty much the only metric they care about and stockholders will ask them about.
Also I think it's a bad idea to measure the skill level across ALL Multiplayer, that sounds more like an easy way out than being accourate and fluid. It's like saying if you're good at cooking, you'll be good at baking cakes because both things happen in the kitchen. Modes should be separated into categories like for example: Deathmatch Modes, Objective Modes, Arena/Elimination Modes, Party Modes, etc
The only thing i got from this is to disable my voice chat for easier lobbys
SBMM has also ruined COD for me - I remember vividly on Black Ops 2, every Sunday, I would go handgun only and always drop 40+
On Cold War, my guns wouldn’t work but the opponents would be laser beams.
This blog post was disappointing. Connection is DEFINITELY not priority. Ping should be the only priority, period. I don't mind if they put me in a match with slightly worse ping if there isn't one close to my server IF they aren't actively manipulating how the game plays out by stacking one team and fucking the other. It's not fun playing on either end.
Also, them saying "oh we turned off SBMM once before and saw no difference." Yeah, because you didn't fucking announce it. If they told people it was gone, I GUARANTEE there would be an influx of players who have quit due to the predatory matchmaking. I sure as fuck would've came back. MW3 looks like it has a solid foundation BUT HOLY FUCK the matchmaking is abhorrent
their 'data' should not be in a file drawer; it should be public.
It feels to me like SBMM carries over between games. If you had good stats in the other games on your ATVI account it carries over. Maybe I'm insane though
I just stopped caring about it. It is what it is.
Pretty much the same here
My Experience is exacly like Drift0r except SBMM does effect weapon damage. When SBMM puts us in higher ping lobbies, it increases the time it takes for our bullets to register to the server.
I'm personally tired playing cod I have no desire to comeback to this game
We know it exists; we've seen the disturbing patents
The SBMM makes tying to get back into gaming as an adult impossible. Im not a good player would say average maybe below so I dont exspect to jump in and win much but its like every lobby I get in is sweaty kids going 110% like I get killed before I can see them plus i dont get how they move so fast. I try building a class to move fast and my guy is still slow then I see everyone else moving like a Olympic track star. I just keep to single player games but its sad I would like to get back to multiplayer but its not fun when you get put up with people that live on the game. There should be a game mode for casual people that play less than X hours a week or something like that.
SKBMM was established for one reason to be able to collect as much money as possible. If the data showed terrible players would still by dlc even when getting wrecked their would be no SKBMM. But when little Timmy is getting destroyed because he doesn’t learn the nuances of the game, weapon recoil, his own aim sensitivity, spawn pathing, properly using kill streaks, audio cues, and meta load-outs inevitably he will be outplayed by the other player that does and thus quit the game and close his pockets to Activisons scheme. The thought of having my health decreased, recoil and hit box adjusted in real time because Timmy won’t make adjustments to get better led me to not purchase CODMW3 at all!