Siberian Native Council is OVERPOWERED - But NOBODY KNOWS why! [No Exploits]
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- What would you do with Infinite Monarch Power?
✦ EU4 1.37 "Winds of Change" ✦
Mods (Graphical):
- Theatrum Orbis Terrarum for 1.30+
- The Great Exhibition
#eu4 #europauniversalis4 #eu4guide
Another day, another monarch point printer... great video as always!
lemon, are you slackening standards? we are waiting on the mahafaly wc to be finished /j
@@BobbiusRossius got a lot of stuff irl I have to deal with, as mentioned in the discord
@@LemonCake101 yep i knew you were slackening standards /s
nah fair enough man, i'm not in your discord so didn't know lol
@@BobbiusRossius fair enough, no worries!
@@LemonCake101 Making IRL cakes is a hard job, i fully understand😘
Chavchuveny's index of happiness probably got into negatives.
Imagine living in that Chavchaveniy country. Man, that's brutal!
Without modern day heating as well
Imagine if every month an extremely well educated horde of Siberians shows up, force us to admit that they are the best and then just leave
@@birmaxfree2173and somehow that makes them even smarter for next time
Tundra flower wars
I can only imagine how strong this would be with 2 or 3 tribes at the same time. The only thing holding you back at that point would be that you can only declare once a month.
Yeah so I think maximum efficiency can be achieved with 2 Tribes... One to declare and one to peace out every month
@@thestudentYT Why? If you have 10 tribes around you then you can declare on 5 and peace out 5 each month. Bottleneck will be the amount of diplomats then.
@@Grzeg_g No... you can only click the "declare War" button ONCE per Month... and after 2 months you can anyways declare on the first nation again... so you cannot get more than 1 War per 1 Month and therefore 2 Tribes are the maximum efficiency
@@Grzeg_g you can only declare one war each month. So that’s your main bottleneck
@@thestudentYT Oh yeah, sorry, you are right. I totally forgot that we have to wait a month to declare war.
> "No exploits"
> Look inside
> One of the most outrageous exploit you've seen
Yeah The Student seems to love edge cases like this.
Siberian council into space is real
Wake up babe new exploit just dropped
what do you mean?
absolutely insane stuff as always from my man :D rooting for you in parabellum
I can assure you, if it was my own campaign, that little tribe would be guaranteed by the Ottomans, Spain and Portugal with all their colonies, as well as allied to France and the Commonwealth xD
"No exploits"
Yeah lol
We’re making it out of Kamchatka wity this one
I think you're staying considering the circumstances
This could be useful to get idea groups early, like you could get full exploration and expansion way before youre meant to have them, i know this is better with admin ideas (stability cost modifier) but itd still be good for that
Yeah even with just the Reform, the Tengri decision and an Advisor you would already be at -63% stab cost
I use this all the time as an adventurer in the Serpentspine in Anbennar(farming points). I did not know it was base game.
Ohhh Next game strat coming up!
For those of you who want to send this exploit into the stratosphere, I've played (and lost, which shows how bad I am) a game as Solon where I went colonial.
It turn out that the New Zealand tribes are also valid targets for the "Force Migration" CB, and since they tend to stick around for a while, the list of valid targets goes from six to at least thirteen. While you won't get such a raw throughput of monarch power (which is part of the reason I screwed up, along with taking Exploration first, since I wouldn't take a -5 stab hit) the fact that there's up to thirteen targets for this means that you really don't have to cycle as hard. In a theoretically perfect 15 year cycle, you could end up with *3900* monarch points which is a little over seven a month.
Granted, I doubt that it would play _that_ nicely, since it seems like the Siberian tribes eventually reform and I don't spend enough time down under to see how breaking the fort hugbox of kiwiland causes issues, but if anyone competent wants to do anything with that info they're more than welcome to -until they really break the game and Paradox pulls a "no fun allowed" card.-
Actually I mentioned that the Pacific Tribes also have that in my Video but they are so far off from any interesting Regions that I thought Siberia is way more interesting
@@thestudentYTI decided to switch gears and actually play as one of the New Zealand tribes instead. I think that the power scaling, despite starting a tech level behind, is much better because on top of having access to the Force Migration CB they also have:
- Access to estates, so you can have your cake with monarch power estate privileges and eat it too.
- Decent stab cost modifiers tied to ideas. I'm not a fan of truce breaking, but the Iwi System ideas include a -20% stab cost. It's not -33%, but it's still available.
- The Pacific Naval Policy allows for 50% colonial range and recruitment of explorers and conquistadors. It means that you can skip Exploration and go straight into Expansion if you want to go hardcore colonial, which you should, since Australia is a gold mine for gold mines. You can easily eat up or tributary all the Australian tribes depending on your goals.
- Way faster start. You're on an equal playing field and you share an island with six potential targets with three to the north of you right next door. Once you get a decent power spike from one or two Show Strengths, you can break your early alliances on the island and beat down way more countries, way faster, with less downtime.
- No negative institution spread modifier and better land to develop. New Zealand is not perfect for development either, but seeing as Solon mostly has Arctic weather along with forests and mountains, it's way easier to dev up, though "The Beginning of Fire" event can really ruin your states.
- A lot more practical to flip religions from Animist as opposed to Tengri. Tengri is great for a lot of things, but none of the Siberian tribes really have anything going for them in regards to cav boni. You can culture flip to Altaic and become Yuan, but you can easily do the same as any of the NZ tribes.
- Better mission tree. It's not by a lot, and the mission that gives you the "Polynesian Kingdom" reform is a trap for this strategy, but there's a lot of free monarch points in that tree that anyone can grab.
- Easier time building and keeping alliances. Indonesia and India aren't too far off, and with plenty of tags to choose from, you'll have at least one ally that will keep other nations off your back. Solon only has Korea or Japan to choose from, and they will eventually break up with you once you are big enough since there aren't too many valid targets in the area.
The downsides, of course, are that you don't have the ability to immediately snowball into Asia and trucebreaking is a lot more dicey since you're annoying people way closer to you. But you can colonize America way easier and you get to keep the land directly too, so you don't have to fiddle around with CNs. You can also flip to one of the American religions (I went Inti because you're usually too big to do Nahuatl or Mayan without nation ruining yourself.) and get a little power spike there too. That one guy suggesting getting Naval ideas would actually work there too, since you have to island hop enough to where having a navy that punches above its weight makes sense defending against the inevitable Big Three.
I think from a purely power standpoint, Solon has a lot of potential if you can get the balance right. But for average Joes like me, New Zealand offers a way safer alternative that has room to grow. You could even do the whole "keep one alive and repeatedly kill them" strategy and it would probably be quicker simply because of the travel time involved in Siberia between provinces.
You could also pick naval ideas for the barrage cost so you dont have to spend mana to do that
Maybe... but would that be worth it for an entire Idea group?
You ninjaed me, because I went to check on the wiki if you can take Naval as a Siberian Tribe. Does it still count as “primitive” once you reform? And imho it could well be useful since it increases by 45 mil mana per truce break…
@@albertoponso5749 You are not Primitive as a Siberian Tribe... you are just Tribal!!
Same as AQ or QQ for example... so you can take Naval Ideas
@@thestudentYTit's not like you can't afford to change the idea group afterward LOL
aren"t there a mil reform for barrages
8:41 I think religious idea would be much amazing. Thanks!
Stability is just a number.
War exhaustion is just a number.
Mana printer go brrrrrrrrrrr.
I'm curious if this would also work (the show strength against migratory native) for australian natives to make the area *slightly* more enjoyable to play. You could easily trap quite a few of them, though you would be stuck in Australia.
HAHAHA i discovered it 2 years ago and none of my friends belive me this is op govermant
I knew about this exploit for a year. But i thought it was possible only in New Zealand. You can do it almost from the start and u have 3-4 nation u can fight at same time. But it was pretty useless since new Zealand is very far away from everyone.
That was the main strength I had when I played in NZ. Europeans would declare wars of imperialism on me all the time, but it took so much time and attrition for them to reach me that I easily won every war... eventually.
But yeah, still a pretty slow game and my meteoric rise only really came after imperialism. Might have been an interesting mega campaign though as I held pretty much all the regions that get immigration buffs in Vic2.
Genius to discover this bug-like mechanics.☺️
With naval military ideas, it would cost 0 milpoints to break a wall.
Wasn't this exactly how the Aztecs farmed for war captives to sacrifice? Constantly invading their neighbor whom they had surrounded.
Combine this with the idea group that lets you make client states early, then release a bunch to set up the printers
You can only declare 1 war per month so only 2 Tribes are needed for peak efficiency
@@thestudentYTif you had more and didn’t need to barrage it would produce more mil per cycle
@@stephenbernard3003 Yes but at that point only if you have like 10 at the same time because some sieges might take 10 months easily
I remember a chavchaveniy into russia strat that was pretty fun. Glad to see it's still good.
Is there a way to prevent the other siberian natives from reforming out of the tribal government?
No it is random... but you can savescum it
you can annex and release them after you get the final reform i think
No because they cannot take the Tier 1 Reform then
Oh lord this is probably even more effective than the new world migrate cooldown strat with the old migration mechanics, where you used to sit on -3 stab and migrate every 90 days for 50-50-50 pts. Of course that got overhauled by the native update
Should also add a Flag-ship that reduces price for naval barrage.
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitch, or use elements of a game system in a manner not intended by the game's designers, in a way that gives a substantial unfair advantage to players using it." Of course this is an exploit.
Everything I used was fully intended... and I even pay a Price for the Mana I am getting, stability loss, Warexhaustion gain and AE impact... if that is an Exploit then every Trucebrake is
@@thestudentYT I´d wager, if you post this to the developers and ask, if over 100 Mana per month was in any way considered a possibility, the odds of them saying yes are slim to none.
I mean modifier stacking is also intended... you annex a 2000 dev Personal Union in a few months for only 200 diplo points if you stack annexation modifers... and that is way more broken than this strategy
(Same also goes for vanilla dev cost stacking)
This would be absolutely cracked, even in multiplayer, if you just hunkered down and fell behind in institutions, saved up ten thousand monarch points, then embraced institutions and teched way up
Doubt it. If you're way over cap, taking one tech will put you at whatever the updated cap is (IE 2000 --> 1400 monarch points even if you take a 30 cost tech). Thus you'd at most achieve one tech really far ahead of years, at the cost of spending a lot of time behind. For abusing development it is more attractive, although you'd have to first get your hands on enough land worth developing.
Keep in mind that conventional expansion even as a relatively small nation can easily be well over 1000 development by 1550ish. In some cases more than double that, and as hordes more still. For something to be "overpowered", I'd expect to see something comparable to "stable True Heir of Timur all held directly" (which is possible), not ~800 development post 1560. There are costs not mentioned in the video that are very impactful, such as forced army positioning to do the assaults + kill rebels, avoiding taking + coring land (due to stab cost increase) etc.
This is a way to make terrible nations significantly better, not a way to produce something approaching "overpowered" results :).
In multiplayer I doubt you'd be able to do much else without everyone complaining about game speed
@@TheMelnTeam Stable direct THOT is very possible since a few patches ago
@@somearthling Lambda did it years ago, but also with a several decade margin and starting as one of the weak options for forming Mughals, so you wouldn't need to play at ~world record levels to do it by 1550!
Man, imagine being ahead of tech all the time. Would just do it every 20 years and have best tech for rest of game and every province would be 30 dev. Governing cap would be only problem
Gov cap is no issue with Courthouses and Half States
@@thestudentYT Makes sense. Thanks for the reply man!
This a badass strat. Does not respect your own time though
It's reinforce the garrison time!
No, dad, no!
With Boats and Naval Ideas, Barrage would be free as well.
But then you'd have Naval Ideas...
You could become Portuguese Culture though for -80% reduction... that would be probably still more efficient than naval Ideas XD
@@thestudentYT I guess so XD
@@thestudentYT I remember a campaign as Palawa where I used an exploration exploit to reach Siberia while remaining a native tribe, only to discover Force Migration worked this way. I even tried to convert to Evenk culture while forming Algiers to steal Solon's national ideas (warscore cost and years of separatism are pretty solid modifiers). However, I didn't think to take it as far as you did, truce breaking repeatedly for maximum output.
A big part of that was simply that being a native tribe meant I couldn't take Naval ideas without reforming into a different government. Between the stab cost, the AE, and the war exhaustion, I was paranoid that something like this just wouldn't be worth it. Even acknowledging that, in principle, I still could have gotten -33% stability cost from the Hereditary Rule reform, and maybe more from starting as a different Aboriginal or Maori tribe...
@@wallyvargas-rios9305 you are not native... you can take naval ideas
One of the HRE CB's (I think claim electorate) has show strenngth as well. I wonder if this can similarly be exploited? The AE would certainly be terrible.
Maybe... if it stays active even with a truce
Well now i know what im playing for my next nation as for my tall campaign
I mean it's still an oversight for sure because free mana go brrr, but yeah! Actually not an exploit in my opinion. Devs just didn't do the math.
yet another working-as-intended gamebreaking "feature" KEKW
The problem is getting strong enough with the Solon to do this. At which point you will be extremely behind other players.
Solon isn't as weak as you might think also because you can do this Show Strenght War regulary on your Siberian Neighbor every 15 years, that's an additional 0.55 Mana in each category
if you take naval you could barrage for free
Yeah... but is it worth to through one entire Idea slot away for that? Maybe
insane find
i would argue that playing as a siberian tribe is an exploit, paradox clearly doesn't think you should be playing them
now make the entire world 30+ dev on every province
As a tall player I am too lazy, to click map so many times to siege this tribe down xD How long that wars took in real time? xD Great video man!
Like maybe 1 or 2 minutes per war
Naval ideas would make barrage free
That's pretty insane. With 2 armies and 2 tribes left you could do it, roughly, once per month instead. And with naval ideas you could do the barrage for free. So that'd be 90/100/100 mana generation per month as long as AE allows. Of course as you conquer into Japan, Ming etc, you'd also solve the AE problem and get more&better deving opportunities. Make Japan your home base and trade company China perhaps?
Sidenote: Chavchuveny's state motto is "it's that time of the month..."
Bro is cooking
As crazy as it sounds this is great if you pair it with Naval ideas because it gives minus 100% Naval barrage cost you would get an extra 50 military points every time you do it
imo it wouldn't be worth the idea slot
You can exploit this further:
-never build any diplomatic relations to anyone else, so they never learn about your capital and form coalitions.
-keep the remaining 3 siberian tribes alive and have 3 armies attacking the 3 nations.
More than 2 is not needed because you cannot declare more than one war per month anyways
@@thestudentYT For mana maximizing: yes. If you want to increase professionalism or colonize on the side, you are bottle-necked by money and manpower.
I think you can do it without the assaulting if you time it right
yes... but then it takes 6 months instead of 2... and you'll have less Mana in the end
@thestudentYT why 6? When the fort has less than 100 guys it falls instantly
@@varus4827 After you make a truce you have to wait 1 full month (and an additional day) before you can send them another diplomat, so the garisson is always at least 100, usually more like 200 because you need to walk there as well, which takes around 20 days according to the video
@alexanderkloss3491 using 2 armies you could ignore the 20 day walk but with the 1 month wait it probably isn't going to work
@@varus4827 I was fast enough with one army already so that the limit was literally the One Month diplomat restriction... so no need for more armies
You should try speedrunning to max tech with this method.
At some Point you'll not be able to save enough Points to take the Tech but... infinite dev would be possible
@@thestudentYTinfinite dev isn’t quite right. A lot though.
What if you used the merc-influence policy to create opm client states, released them, and used all of those former client states to print mana? I haven't tested this, but they get your government right?
Released countries cannot be that Siberian Reform... so they can't be migratory... so you cannot get that CB on them
@@thestudentYT Interesting, I'd never played around too much with client states before so I decided to test what it actually meant by choosing government. It's just a choice between monarchy and republic. It's really weird to be able to create monarchies and republics as a tribe. Here I was hoping that you could choose a bit more about them. I hope PDX gives client states a bit more love, because they feel so outdated as a mechanic in the modern game tbh.
This is clearly a exploit. Its a game flaw you exploit. The game has no memory that you already proved being superior to this tribe. And there is only the truce timer you circumvent with a truce break. The fact you can do this over and over is certainly not intended.
Can you build ships? If I remember correctly, you can take maritime ideas for -100% naval barrage cost.
You are not a native! So yes
Its works on ngati-toa, four year. Its better, because nobody knows about them and its really zero ae. And they can beat two countries with this cb
This is no Problem with AE already (and you could also leave two of these nations in Siberia alive)... and Manchuria has at least SOME usefull expansion option in early Game... so I am pretty sure that Solon is still WAYYY better than Ngati-Toa
idk guys i think he wants to show strength
show strength shouldn’t do anything if the enemy is at -999 mana
The enemy doesn't lose any Mana from that... it creates Mana out of nothing anyways
I have a question about parliament, if you get something from parliament that has no expiration date before it's gone (for example a missionary or colonist) do you still keep them if you decide to remove parliament?
Very glad they're going to get rid of modifier stacking in eu5
this will make the game completely different. this will be interesting
How would you deal with the government capacity? And would you still be siberian council if you changed religion?
I dealt with it by taking the right Tier 4 Reform, by taking Admin Ideas and by building Courthouses.
And yes, the Siberian Native Council works with every culture and every religion... you just have to start with it and you have to keep it the entire time... otherwise it will be lost for the rest of the campaign
And it is easy to understand why this is a exploit. From where exactly come these 100 mana point each ? The loser should transfer it to you right ? So you tap into the ability to run into negative mana points. He gives you mana he do not have.
And I thought before that Solon is the worst nation to play as a Siberian Council because it's too big to migrate. So I was wrong.
(Playing as an OPM, I migrated to find some gold, showed strength on unlucky tribes, developed institutions and stopped being an OPM and a Tribe).
amazing
Can you make max eff extreme tall japan video? ❤
Music is way too loud and distracting.
Please mix it quieter.
crazy
pretty cheap way to keep your army tradion up if you dont want to blob to hard.
If that is the OP thing that you took from this video then I am honestly worried XD
@@thestudentYT obviously not but its basically +6 or 12 Army tradition per year for nothign
@@oKnuTo Yes it is a nice side effect
Well, see, this is not an exploit.
You are using a game mechanic as intended.
It's broken and cheesy af... But you play as the devs intended the player to.
Of course, I think they assumed you would have annexed that tag by this point, by whatever. Good find!
eu3 had chinese cheese , now siberian cheese?
Cool, but it is an exploit tbf
You're on the wrong channel if you're worked up about exploits.
@@EbonySaints No it does not bothering me at all, what did actually caused me to comment is the fact this video title says "No exploits"
taking naval ideas can let you barrage for free, so the entire cycle costs only 10 adm
But then you have Naval ideas...
@@thestudentYT worth it for this strat tho i think haha. BTW, could you do some sort of video on the thalassocracy reform and trade protectorates? They haven't really been touched on since they were added to the game despite seeming a bit OP if you stack a lot of them
I was the one that brought them back to public with a crazy strategy in a video already several months ago
@@thestudentYT would it be worth it to take the idea group to help with mana generation overall but then towards the end of your declaring you remove it for a preffered idea group? you might be able to squeeze out a bit more mil mana overall depending on how much you end up saving from it
@@tree4104 you'll only need around 28 cycles to make your mil mana back, and beyond 50 cycles you're better off taking naval and deleting.
You took their lunch money sooo much. Poor Siberian natives.
How did you find all of that?
STOP! He’s already dead! 😖
But question is : is it worth ? Or you lag behind too much and not blob the world enough
Trust me... with this you can get a WC One Culture before 1600 if you want to
Answer: No, it's not.
Even super optimaly, you are getting at most 50 points per month. Which is cool, but not really worth it past the early game. Maybe if you are trying to do some tall thing.
@@thestudentYT no offense but this isn't going to allow you to do a pre 1600 WC lmao let alone a one culture, where did you get that idea from?
this country doesn't have horde razing, eyalets, dip annex cost, the broken dali exploit with ming, or even enough ccr to do a pre 1600
@@BobbiusRossius Bro, the the WR is 1474... at the current point you get CCR modifiers from every corner and with this you have literally INFINITE Mana, a pre 1600 WC is doable as any nation nowdays
@@thestudentYTyeah and that was done as oirat, this nation isn't a horde and doesn't have the power of a horde, ottomans, bohemia/provence
Solon/any of the siberian tribes do not start as hordes, they do not have an easy way to either get 98% dip annex cost or 75% ccr so they can ignore overextension, its literally impossible to hit either of these while keeping this "infinite" mana "exploit" you show off in this video
you cant just pre 1600 as any nation, that's not really how it works
this looks strong, but not fun.
also how is that not an exploit? 😭
Just using fully intended Game Mechanics in a Creative way :)
@@thestudentYT it's certainly creative! I don't think pdx ever considered this scenario when forming these mechanics
Why doesnt your AE go up though?
Because it was super far away, a heathen Religion, my own Religion, and a different Culture group...
@thestudentYT So what matters is the distance of your capital?
@@rami8896 The distance towards the attacked nation of course
Lol
If u want free mana it s easier to use cheats😂
This is super easy... and you can get any achievements and you could do it in MP
you could say that about literally anything. why play any game or give yourself any challenge when you could just cheat? its easier anyway right? the reason to do this is to push the limits of exploiting the game without using dev or cheat tools.
@thestudentYT why do achievements matter if you exploit this hard. Why also ruin a lobby
@@afridge8608 idk what we are talking about here... if you want to play roleplay or chill eu4 then you can do that... but then why would you desperatly try to criticize an unknown crazy strategy that works without cheats and try to tell me that somehow it would not be worth it to use... I don't get what you want to tell me with this comment honestly xD
Gotta agree. Idk why people think using exploits is somehow more justified than using cheats.