I was born in 1970 and reared exclusively in the NO/conciliar Church. It was all I ever knew until I kept running into references about Tradition and the TLM online and asked my Dad about what I was finding and he astonished, said he’d love to go to the TLM again so I found us one 1.5 hrs from our home. We bounced back and forth every other week for about a year until finally we’d both seen enough and it’s been TLM exclusively for about 14 years. I’m never going back to the NO, never. I barely had any faith then and since I’ve grown so much it would take a book to explain. I’ll never go back to that banal hot garbage ever.
My father was received into the Holy Church way back in the first half of 20th century. He grieved about losing the Latin mass, but with a gang of children to bring up during the 70’s we just assumed that the new mass was how it was going to be from now on. Bless him! If my father could look down from heaven and watch my daughter and I attending TLM not 50 miles from the old house where we grew up, he would cry for joy. ❤️🙏❤️
I hit the like button and it still says zero likes hmmmm. Both of you are 2 of my favorite on UA-cam. I recently moved across the country were there is FSSP, ICKSP and SSPX with in 20 minutes of us. After spending 6 years in the FSSP we now attend the SSPX. It is so freeing knowing we have no worry of the Mass being taken away from my family.
I live in Utah. The TLM for me is 2 hours away in Park City Utah. The drive gives me time to prepare myself to be present for the sacrifice. I pray our Bishop keeps this Mass for us at 3:00 P.M. on Sunday. I am in Austin TX right now for 2 weeks. This Sunday I will atttend one of the last TLM Mass to be held in Austin. Breaks my heart for the people of God who want to continue the right to our tradition. God bless you all. Soldiers for our Faith +++ SSPX I pray your Bishops stay strong.
I am a convert in central Texas who was formed traditionally, after getting scandalized by a NO priest who was worshiping Hindu gods during his homilies. I have been attending an NO parish so I can get Confirmation. The priest is Nigerian, and a good man. As far as NO liturgies go, Father is reverent, a good homilist, and the musicians are top notch. But as soon as I am confirmed, I will be driving an hour to attend a TLM. It will probably be shut down soon, but I will go while I can. I am older, with dogs and chickens, so the thought of moving seems like signing up for a hike up Mt. Everest. But I will only get older, and less able to relocate. I am thinking St. Mary's, Kansas. It would be kind of difficult to shut down the Immaculata!
If it wasn't for AB Lefebvre and the SSPX, there would be no TLM today. Thank God for AB Lefebvre and the SSPX!! You should interview those Catholics who lived during the V2 and post-V2 council. This would explain many of your questions concerning the TLM and NO attendance options. The Catholic magisterium and priests strongly stomped the TLM and shut their doors to traditional Catholics, even to the point of trying to destroy traditional Catholic businesses.
Yes, a crisis of conscience. My heart feels this deeply when I go to the new Mass. My heart hurts to have the Priest face the congregation and not our Lord Ad Orientum. Our beautiful Mother please embrace us through these difficult times. +++
Thank you. The Pride question about how I feel when or if I go to the Novous O. and not the Traditional Mass has been very difficult. Thank you for this explanation.
Raised in TLM, served on the Altar, Dissatisfied with the N O, relish now the differences and plan on a return to the SSPX in Oct 2025 if my local diocese church suspends TLM.
Kennedy, I hope that you read this and consider my request. Could you explain in one of your shows if it is ok to attend a Novus Ordo to keep Christ company and make reparation? Thankfully, I'm able to cross the border to Detroit on the weekends and attend the Latin Mass (ICKSP), but during the week, my only option is N.O.. I heard an S.S.P.X. priest say that if you know that the N.O. is illicit (and I do), but still attend, you are sinning (the sin, I would assume, would be against the 1st Commandment). I need clarification on this. Thank you and God bless!
I still don’t know what you think we’re supposed to do we have one TLM mass and they don’t advertise it in Iowa the largest city in Iowa and they talk about doing way with all of them. What do we supposed to do then underground church
I wont go to a mass or receive a sacrament unless the priest was ordained in the old rite by a bishop who was consecrated and ordained in the old rite. I would also attend mass and receive sacraments from any Eastern rite priest
I was listening to something about how awful vat 2 was, and it highlighted how Vatican 2 actually states that all people in the world have the right to worship their religion the way they choose. How come, Catholics themselves have to submit to being forced to abandon their mass, the way it has been celebrated for centuries, and the way their mothers and fathers celebrated it, and the way they find their faith is nourished?
The Novus Ordo is NOT the Latin Rite and not even Catholic. Our Lady said it in her Apparitions in LaSalette and many of the ones approved by the Church.
I attended the local NO on Maundy Thursday and for the Easter Vigil. I drove to the only Traditional Mass on Good Friday that is still permitted in our diocese, over an hour away. I’m in my sixties and have difficulties getting to the Latin rite. The NO priests are not egregiously bad - probably average. But the masses just have no life, if that makes sense. They crammed two parishes together, so the church was quite full on both occasions. The Maundy Thursday mass was about 95% elderly people (my age and older). Nearly all received in the hand and acted rather nonchalant about it. The Easter Vigil had a good mix of old and young and was shortened in every way they could shorten it. Clearly the priests wanted to get done as quickly as possible. Now the Good Friday Mass was an entirely different matter. We got there early but had to drive around for a couple of blocks to find parking. All around us, young families were streaming toward the church. And it was full. On a Friday afternoon. Women and girls beautifully and modestly attired and veiled, men and boys likewise neatly dressed, many in suits. There was so much reverence and SO MUCH LIFE! The Mass was wonderful, with lots of young acolytes serving. The babies fussed and cried, children had to be taken to the bathroom. Fathers quietly assisted their wives. It was as it should be. Simply glorious, and didn’t distract at all from the holy altar. My soul was lifted to God with such joy, such gratitude. Christus vincit! Christus regnat! Christus imperat!
The TLM makes clear that the priest offers a SACRIFICE to God. The Novos Ordo does not make this clear-how can it when it looks like the priest faces the people? I have only ever felt a sense of satisfaction that I've done my duty to God when exiting a TLM.
And then theres those people who DID move to be near TLM, and even that was eventually shut down/taken away - as this CORRUPTION means to do, over time, to all TLM! 😡
I went to the TLM for 35 years. Please be fair to us who have gone over to Holy Orthodoxy. You are a good man Kennedy, I can"t do the gymnastics you are doing in this video any longer! My bishop serves the same liturgy and sacraments as my parish priest. Apostates, sodomites and Marxists cannot also be a legitimate magisterium. I reject the novus ordo completely and entirely. I have no reason to believe it is the Holy Sacrifice!
If given a choice of two submarine rides, one on active US Navy vessel, the other on a ship constructed in a rich guy’s garage, controlled with a joy stick from a video game………….? If only the latter is available, it’s simple. I’m staying ashore.
20:35 going to the Ordinary form, lawfully promulgated by the magisterium of the Catholic Church and refusing to participate is a direct sign a person is engaging in formal schism.
One side of my family apostasied after V2, the other side mostly skipped a generation before they left the church. I came to the Church in large part because of the TLM, specifically the priests and people I found there. That’s who is attacked when shutting down the TLM. Has nothing to do with the rite, it’s the people holding onto Tradition vocally. Those people tend to be drowned out in the NO.
in my area there are 3 typical communion-in-hand, sterile homily, modernist NO parishes, but we also have access to a solid no-nonsense Sede priest, and that's the one we attend to. Hearing your opinions, I assume we are good by only attending the Sede chapel and avoiding the modernistic NO parishes. please correct me if i'm wrong.
@Artorius_Augustine I don’t judge anyone going to a sede church. As an SSPX, even I am dubious about Bergoglio and believe the Chair of Peter is vacant. I refuse to give anyone else a hard time about all the idiotic confusion going on in the Church. We’ve been lied to for a long time about VII and Modernism in the Church. People are just doing their best.
WHY was the Holy Mass changed WHO was ‘dissatisfied’ with the Mass of Ages for 1500 years! After 50 years of N.O and since CVD. closure of God’s House RCC churches, I found an FSSP 30KM away and now I see TRUE worship and reverence for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The N.O I attended for 32yrs was like a Shopping Mall and the Priest FAILED to correct the flock 😭😭😭 I’m never leaving the TLM where there’s UNISON worship and adoration of the Holy Sacrificial Mass 🙏🙏🙏 The Holy Bible says Will there be faith when Jesus returns?
Look, Charley came in to comment. Hi Charley. Since the argument “we must offer the very best” is obviously a reference to the rite which most clearly and authentically expresses the faith, as we know the Traditional Rite does based on Trent and Quo Primum. Also, as you know, those communities with enough priests are expected to offer a Solemn High Mass as their primary Mass on Sundays; however, most parishes & chapels cannot. But the rite-the words, prayers, postures, gestures, etc. that constitute the rite-is not weakened because of that. The completeness and perfection of the rite isn’t lessened or altered.
Now what? That depends on whether Francis is pope. If Francis is pope the Novus Ordo is the tradition of the Church. If Francis is pope; the ONLY Catholic response is to Obey.
I find it a bit ironic that Kennedy says that God wouldn’t allow the Church to use/believe something harmful to souls for a long period if it was peaceably accepted by the sensus fidelium. Yet the NO has been accepted by 3 popes, 99% of bishops, and 99% of the laity.
You’re grasping Charley; trying to hard in your anti/tradition choleric way. 3 popes vs. 260 or so? 50 years vs. 17-18 centuries? Additionally, empirically and experientially we can see with our own eyes and discover through our own research that indeed the new rites are weakened at best, harmful at worst. This is why many priests started offering traditional rite baptisms, why exorcists returned to the traditional rite to be more effective in combating demons, and why traditional communities thrive (on average-measured by vocations & beliefs) vs. nearly all western, typical, dioceses. You have eyes Charley but stubbornly refuse to see.
Are you talking about the 70 per cent of the laity that do not believe in the Real Presence? The laity that does not attend Sunday Mass...the laity that would not recognize a Catechism if it was stuck under their nose?
Kennedy says that saying the the TLM is against the unity of the Church is necessarily a modernist proposition. I don’t see how that follows. He says it’s because “it is impossible to avoid this idea that the way that religious is practiced must change, must evolve.” However, saying the liturgy should evolve over time is not inherently modernist. He goes on to say that “there is no way of being attached to the NO in any capacity without being at the risk of at least being exposed to modernism.” Again, don’t see how that follows. It seems he is essentially equivocating liturgical change with modernism which is erroneous.
Truth does not evolve. It is the same 2000 years ago when Christ was on earth. The Vatican II stonecutter council was and is erroneous. It was jammed down our throats by a small group of well organized modernists. Even Pul VI admitted that it went too far.
Kennedy talks about how you couldn’t keep the Lord’s day holy if a Mass is offered so terribly that it causes you great anger, etc. He doesn’t really explain this though. It’s not that simple. For instance, there are people who are so upset by fully approved things in the NO that they won’t attend the NO even if it means not going to Mass at all. (Unfortunately, NO bashing from some people fuels this). You also fall into this error by saying that communion in the hand and EMCHs are sacrileges. You are accusing God’s holy Church of officially approving sacrileges, since those things are fully approved by the Church. The Catechism does not say that either of those things are sacrileges. Or would it be justified to refuse to go to Mass on Sunday because the only available parish has one very minor deviation from the rubrics? What if that one minor deviation makes you extremely angry? Or how angry/upset do you really need to be until you’re more so keeping Sunday holy by not attending Mass at all? At some point the problem is that some people get angry/upset too easily. While moral impossibility is a real thing, some people apply that very incorrectly.
We wouldn’t be in this mess if the Holy Mass of 1500yrs wasn’t so drastically changed However I believe in God’s permissive will🙏🙏🙏 How else will He return if not for grave disproval of His teachings?
Would you attend a mass where the priest is a known homosexual and the parish has homosexual and lesbian couples handing out communion? Rainbow altar cloths and vestments? Changes words to prayers, specifically, uses the person’s name or changes he/she to “they?” Communion is in both kinds, standing, in the hand, sometimes “couples” giving it to one another? The wine since the c-sickness is administered in little cups like Protestants. Our Lord, IF He’s present, is in an ugly metal box in a corner of the hall beside the altar. They cater to the 🏳️⚧️ 🏳️🌈 community who come on vacation in the summer months. I went once and left immediately thereafter through a side door. I literally drove out of town, pulled in the back of a VFW parking lot and wept for three hours. I only left when the police drove over and told me it was illegal to loiter there. They made me get out, frisked me, searched the car, checked my license for warrants, and talked to me. They didn’t understand why I was so upset and I couldn’t fully explain for fear of getting arrested for a hate crime or detained for being mentally unstable. I took the breathalyzer and came up 100% clean. Of course, they found nothing suspect in my car, so gave me a choice to leave or come with them. I had just moved there from another state and was staying in a residence inn for a month until my home was ready. I now hear Mass in another country, a 2 1/2 drive one way. I go as often as I can, about once a month. I’m a senior on my own, age 73, on a fixed income. No, I cannot move at this time. I’m very blessed to have the little home I’m in having previously been homeless.
Communion in the hand was never, " officially," authorized, nor approved. In fact, it was disapproved by Popes Paul VI, JPII, and Benedict XVI. Bishops and priests allowed this aberration to become commonplace. Not knowing how this abuse of the Eucharist came about, casts a shadow of suspicion to your post and deflates it.
You ask what if the priest is super heretical or notoriously gravely sinful. I think it would depend on the circumstances and what harm would be caused to an individual person in a given setting. It’s not just a given that we shouldn’t go to those Masses. If you or I went to a Mass where we need the priest was a heretic, I think the risk of harm would be very low because we know enough to know what’s true about the faith and what’s heretical. Kennedy tries to respond to this by falsely claiming that “there is a very high likelihood that you’re going to witness a lot of things that are scandalous… that are sacrilegious.” He also falsely claims that “the NO had grave theological deficiencies and presented grave theological dangers.” He also claims that if a priest who offers the TLM is offering a TLM, they must be up there having a crisis of conscience. That’s false on the face of it. There are many priests who willingly and happily offer both forms. “If going to Mass is a problem, then your obligation is dispensed.” I think you were just summarizing there, but that’s an oversimplification.
The Latin Mass was not canceled. The Pope praised the chrism of the FSSP. Attendance at SSPX masses is allowed but receiving the eucharist is there is not licit. If sedevacantism isn't schismatic then nothing is schismatic.
Blessing homosexual unions isn't “schismatic”...? Venerating pagan idols isn't “schismatic”...? But adherence to a reverential liturgy common to the experience of Catholics throughout the ages, that's “schismatic”...? Be real! 🙄
No SSPX is not in schism,the unjust excommunication imposed by JP2,was lifted and unturned by BXV1, restored TLM through his Motu proprio,summorum pontificium, instructing bishops of the world to train and allow the wider celebration of the Mass in their dioceses.
I was born in 1970 and reared exclusively in the NO/conciliar Church. It was all I ever knew until I kept running into references about Tradition and the TLM online and asked my Dad about what I was finding and he astonished, said he’d love to go to the TLM again so I found us one 1.5 hrs from our home. We bounced back and forth every other week for about a year until finally we’d both seen enough and it’s been TLM exclusively for about 14 years. I’m never going back to the NO, never. I barely had any faith then and since I’ve grown so much it would take a book to explain. I’ll never go back to that banal hot garbage ever.
My father was received into the Holy Church way back in the first half of 20th century. He grieved about losing the Latin mass, but with a gang of children to bring up during the 70’s we just assumed that the new mass was how it was going to be from now on. Bless him! If my father could look down from heaven and watch my daughter and I attending TLM not 50 miles from the old house where we grew up, he would cry for joy. ❤️🙏❤️
Same here.
I hit the like button and it still says zero likes hmmmm. Both of you are 2 of my favorite on UA-cam. I recently moved across the country were there is FSSP, ICKSP and SSPX with in 20 minutes of us. After spending 6 years in the FSSP we now attend the SSPX. It is so freeing knowing we have no worry of the Mass being taken away from my family.
Would you attend cmri. I went to school with them grades 10th to 12th and they are good at teaching the faith.
I live in Utah. The TLM for me is 2 hours away in Park City Utah. The drive gives me time to prepare myself to be present for the sacrifice. I pray our Bishop keeps this Mass for us at 3:00 P.M. on Sunday. I am in Austin TX right now for 2 weeks. This Sunday I will atttend one of the last TLM Mass to be held in Austin. Breaks my heart for the people of God who want to continue the right to our tradition. God bless you all. Soldiers for our Faith +++ SSPX I pray your Bishops stay strong.
This is my Mass, too ❤ There used to be a Low Mass in SLC but it’s not around anymore. Hopefully the Park City one stays!
I am a convert in central Texas who was formed traditionally, after getting scandalized by a NO priest who was worshiping Hindu gods during his homilies. I have been attending an NO parish so I can get Confirmation. The priest is Nigerian, and a good man. As far as NO liturgies go, Father is reverent, a good homilist, and the musicians are top notch. But as soon as I am confirmed, I will be driving an hour to attend a TLM. It will probably be shut down soon, but I will go while I can. I am older, with dogs and chickens, so the thought of moving seems like signing up for a hike up Mt. Everest. But I will only get older, and less able to relocate. I am thinking St. Mary's, Kansas. It would be kind of difficult to shut down the Immaculata!
If it wasn't for AB Lefebvre and the SSPX, there would be no TLM today. Thank God for AB Lefebvre and the SSPX!! You should interview those Catholics who lived during the V2 and post-V2 council. This would explain many of your questions concerning the TLM and NO attendance options. The Catholic magisterium and priests strongly stomped the TLM and shut their doors to traditional Catholics, even to the point of trying to destroy traditional Catholic businesses.
Yes, a crisis of conscience. My heart feels this deeply when I go to the new Mass. My heart hurts to have the Priest face the congregation and not our Lord Ad Orientum. Our beautiful Mother please embrace us through these difficult times. +++
Thank you. The Pride question about how I feel when or if I go to the Novous O. and not the Traditional Mass has been very difficult. Thank you for this explanation.
Raised in TLM, served on the Altar, Dissatisfied with the N O, relish now the differences and plan on a return to the SSPX in Oct 2025 if my local diocese church suspends TLM.
Thank you SO MUCH for addressing this situation! I really needed some wise input on it.
It really does come down to Lex Orandi Lex Credendi. The enemies of Christ know that very well.
Thank you Jeff and Kennedy… will keep you both and your families in our prayers 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Kennedy, I hope that you read this and consider my request. Could you explain in one of your shows if it is ok to attend a Novus Ordo to keep Christ company and make reparation? Thankfully, I'm able to cross the border to Detroit on the weekends and attend the Latin Mass (ICKSP), but during the week, my only option is N.O..
I heard an S.S.P.X. priest say that if you know that the N.O. is illicit (and I do), but still attend, you are sinning (the sin, I would assume, would be against the 1st Commandment). I need clarification on this. Thank you and God bless!
A quote from Machievelli (I think) - avoiding war to keep a peace only kicks can down the road to your own disadvantage (paraphrasing).
Great show. Two of my favorites.
Great show, proud to be Canadian
Thanks to both of you. I appreciate you dropping this one.
I still don’t know what you think we’re supposed to do we have one TLM mass and they don’t advertise it in Iowa the largest city in Iowa and they talk about doing way with all of them. What do we supposed to do then underground church
I wont go to a mass or receive a sacrament unless the priest was ordained in the old rite by a bishop who was consecrated and ordained in the old rite. I would also attend mass and receive sacraments from any Eastern rite priest
I was listening to something about how awful vat 2 was, and it highlighted how Vatican 2 actually states that all people in the world have the right to worship their religion the way they choose. How come, Catholics themselves have to submit to being forced to abandon their mass, the way it has been celebrated for centuries, and the way their mothers and fathers celebrated it, and the way they find their faith is nourished?
The Novus Ordo is NOT the Latin Rite and not even Catholic. Our Lady said it in her Apparitions in LaSalette and many of the ones approved by the Church.
I attended the local NO on Maundy Thursday and for the Easter Vigil. I drove to the only Traditional Mass on Good Friday that is still permitted in our diocese, over an hour away. I’m in my sixties and have difficulties getting to the Latin rite. The NO priests are not egregiously bad - probably average. But the masses just have no life, if that makes sense. They crammed two parishes together, so the church was quite full on both occasions. The Maundy Thursday mass was about 95% elderly people (my age and older). Nearly all received in the hand and acted rather nonchalant about it. The Easter Vigil had a good mix of old and young and was shortened in every way they could shorten it. Clearly the priests wanted to get done as quickly as possible. Now the Good Friday Mass was an entirely different matter. We got there early but had to drive around for a couple of blocks to find parking. All around us, young families were streaming toward the church. And it was full. On a Friday afternoon. Women and girls beautifully and modestly attired and veiled, men and boys likewise neatly dressed, many in suits. There was so much reverence and SO MUCH LIFE! The Mass was wonderful, with lots of young acolytes serving. The babies fussed and cried, children had to be taken to the bathroom. Fathers quietly assisted their wives. It was as it should be. Simply glorious, and didn’t distract at all from the holy altar. My soul was lifted to God with such joy, such gratitude. Christus vincit! Christus regnat! Christus imperat!
The TLM makes clear that the priest offers a SACRIFICE to God. The Novos Ordo does not make this clear-how can it when it looks like the priest faces the people? I have only ever felt a sense of satisfaction that I've done my duty to God when exiting a TLM.
And then theres those people who DID move to be near TLM, and even that was eventually shut down/taken away - as this CORRUPTION means to do, over time, to all TLM! 😡
"The [Holy] Mass is at the service of the faith." Amen.
"Attend" online. Better than nothing.
I went to the TLM for 35 years. Please be fair to us who have gone over to Holy Orthodoxy. You are a good man Kennedy, I can"t do the gymnastics you are doing in this video any longer! My bishop serves the same liturgy and sacraments as my parish priest. Apostates, sodomites and Marxists cannot also be a legitimate magisterium. I reject the novus ordo completely and entirely. I have no reason to believe it is the Holy Sacrifice!
How is embracing formal schism and heresy an improvement upon the situation in the Roman Church?
If given a choice of two submarine rides, one on active US Navy vessel, the other on a ship constructed in a rich guy’s garage, controlled with a joy stick from a video game………….? If only the latter is available, it’s simple. I’m staying ashore.
20:35 going to the Ordinary form, lawfully promulgated by the magisterium of the Catholic Church and refusing to participate is a direct sign a person is engaging in formal schism.
Who would you cite in support of this position?
One side of my family apostasied after V2, the other side mostly skipped a generation before they left the church. I came to the Church in large part because of the TLM, specifically the priests and people I found there. That’s who is attacked when shutting down the TLM. Has nothing to do with the rite, it’s the people holding onto Tradition vocally. Those people tend to be drowned out in the NO.
I just found a Maronite Catholic Church 3 hours east of me
in my area there are 3 typical communion-in-hand, sterile homily, modernist NO parishes, but we also have access to a solid no-nonsense Sede priest, and that's the one we attend to. Hearing your opinions, I assume we are good by only attending the Sede chapel and avoiding the modernistic NO parishes. please correct me if i'm wrong.
A sedevacantist is not in communion with Rome; attending his Mass does not fulfill your Sunday obligation.
@Artorius_Augustine
I don’t judge anyone going to a sede church. As an SSPX, even I am dubious about Bergoglio and believe the Chair of Peter is vacant. I refuse to give anyone else a hard time about all the idiotic confusion going on in the Church. We’ve been lied to for a long time about VII and Modernism in the Church. People are just doing their best.
Where does it say that you must attend church? That was a pre V2 law -- not 'post'.
WHY was the Holy Mass changed WHO was ‘dissatisfied’ with the Mass of Ages for 1500 years! After 50 years of N.O and since CVD. closure of God’s House RCC churches, I found an FSSP 30KM away and now I see TRUE worship and reverence for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The N.O I attended for 32yrs was like a Shopping Mall and the Priest FAILED to correct the flock 😭😭😭
I’m never leaving the TLM where there’s UNISON worship and adoration of the Holy Sacrificial Mass 🙏🙏🙏 The Holy Bible says Will there be faith when Jesus returns?
The argument of “we must offer the very best” would mean that every Mass would have to be a Solemn Mass.
Look, Charley came in to comment. Hi Charley. Since the argument “we must offer the very best” is obviously a reference to the rite which most clearly and authentically expresses the faith, as we know the Traditional Rite does based on Trent and Quo Primum. Also, as you know, those communities with enough priests are expected to offer a Solemn High Mass as their primary Mass on Sundays; however, most parishes & chapels cannot. But the rite-the words, prayers, postures, gestures, etc. that constitute the rite-is not weakened because of that. The completeness and perfection of the rite isn’t lessened or altered.
Now what? That depends on whether Francis is pope.
If Francis is pope the Novus Ordo is the tradition of the Church.
If Francis is pope; the ONLY Catholic response is to Obey.
Nope
This was a superb discussion until you mentioned Jim DePiante. It ruined the whole thing!
It's SSP-ten.
I find it a bit ironic that Kennedy says that God wouldn’t allow the Church to use/believe something harmful to souls for a long period if it was peaceably accepted by the sensus fidelium. Yet the NO has been accepted by 3 popes, 99% of bishops, and 99% of the laity.
You’re grasping Charley; trying to hard in your anti/tradition choleric way. 3 popes vs. 260 or so? 50 years vs. 17-18 centuries? Additionally, empirically and experientially we can see with our own eyes and discover through our own research that indeed the new rites are weakened at best, harmful at worst. This is why many priests started offering traditional rite baptisms, why exorcists returned to the traditional rite to be more effective in combating demons, and why traditional communities thrive (on average-measured by vocations & beliefs) vs. nearly all western, typical, dioceses. You have eyes Charley but stubbornly refuse to see.
It has NEVER been universally accepted by the people,SSPX, etc.....
Are you talking about the 70 per cent of the laity that do not believe in the Real Presence? The laity that does not attend Sunday Mass...the laity that would not recognize a Catechism if it was stuck under their nose?
Kennedy says that saying the the TLM is against the unity of the Church is necessarily a modernist proposition. I don’t see how that follows. He says it’s because “it is impossible to avoid this idea that the way that religious is practiced must change, must evolve.” However, saying the liturgy should evolve over time is not inherently modernist. He goes on to say that “there is no way of being attached to the NO in any capacity without being at the risk of at least being exposed to modernism.” Again, don’t see how that follows. It seems he is essentially equivocating liturgical change with modernism which is erroneous.
Charley, read Kwasniewski for a more thorough explanation of this. The Once and Future Roman Rite is a great place to start.
Truth does not evolve. It is the same 2000 years ago when Christ was on earth. The Vatican II stonecutter council was and is erroneous. It was jammed down our throats by a small group of well organized modernists. Even Pul VI admitted that it went too far.
Kennedy talks about how you couldn’t keep the Lord’s day holy if a Mass is offered so terribly that it causes you great anger, etc. He doesn’t really explain this though. It’s not that simple.
For instance, there are people who are so upset by fully approved things in the NO that they won’t attend the NO even if it means not going to Mass at all. (Unfortunately, NO bashing from some people fuels this). You also fall into this error by saying that communion in the hand and EMCHs are sacrileges. You are accusing God’s holy Church of officially approving sacrileges, since those things are fully approved by the Church. The Catechism does not say that either of those things are sacrileges.
Or would it be justified to refuse to go to Mass on Sunday because the only available parish has one very minor deviation from the rubrics? What if that one minor deviation makes you extremely angry? Or how angry/upset do you really need to be until you’re more so keeping Sunday holy by not attending Mass at all? At some point the problem is that some people get angry/upset too easily. While moral impossibility is a real thing, some people apply that very incorrectly.
We wouldn’t be in this mess if the Holy Mass of 1500yrs wasn’t so drastically changed However I believe in God’s permissive will🙏🙏🙏 How else will He return if not for grave disproval of His teachings?
Would you attend a mass where the priest is a known homosexual and the parish has homosexual and lesbian couples handing out communion? Rainbow altar cloths and vestments? Changes words to prayers, specifically, uses the person’s name or changes he/she to “they?” Communion is in both kinds, standing, in the hand, sometimes “couples” giving it to one another? The wine since the c-sickness is administered in little cups like Protestants. Our Lord, IF He’s present, is in an ugly metal box in a corner of the hall beside the altar. They cater to the 🏳️⚧️ 🏳️🌈 community who come on vacation in the summer months. I went once and left immediately thereafter through a side door. I literally drove out of town, pulled in the back of a VFW parking lot and wept for three hours. I only left when the police drove over and told me it was illegal to loiter there. They made me get out, frisked me, searched the car, checked my license for warrants, and talked to me. They didn’t understand why I was so upset and I couldn’t fully explain for fear of getting arrested for a hate crime or detained for being mentally unstable. I took the breathalyzer and came up 100% clean. Of course, they found nothing suspect in my car, so gave me a choice to leave or come with them. I had just moved there from another state and was staying in a residence inn for a month until my home was ready.
I now hear Mass in another country, a 2 1/2 drive one way. I go as often as I can, about once a month. I’m a senior on my own, age 73, on a fixed income. No, I cannot move at this time. I’m very blessed to have the little home I’m in having previously been homeless.
Communion in the hand was never, " officially," authorized, nor approved. In fact, it was disapproved by Popes Paul VI, JPII, and Benedict XVI. Bishops and priests allowed this aberration to become commonplace. Not knowing how this abuse of the Eucharist came about, casts a shadow of suspicion to your post and deflates it.
You ask what if the priest is super heretical or notoriously gravely sinful. I think it would depend on the circumstances and what harm would be caused to an individual person in a given setting. It’s not just a given that we shouldn’t go to those Masses.
If you or I went to a Mass where we need the priest was a heretic, I think the risk of harm would be very low because we know enough to know what’s true about the faith and what’s heretical. Kennedy tries to respond to this by falsely claiming that “there is a very high likelihood that you’re going to witness a lot of things that are scandalous… that are sacrilegious.” He also falsely claims that “the NO had grave theological deficiencies and presented grave theological dangers.” He also claims that if a priest who offers the TLM is offering a TLM, they must be up there having a crisis of conscience. That’s false on the face of it. There are many priests who willingly and happily offer both forms.
“If going to Mass is a problem, then your obligation is dispensed.” I think you were just summarizing there, but that’s an oversimplification.
The Latin Mass was not canceled. The Pope praised the chrism of the FSSP. Attendance at SSPX masses is allowed but receiving the eucharist is there is not licit. If sedevacantism isn't schismatic then nothing is schismatic.
Blessing homosexual unions isn't “schismatic”...? Venerating pagan idols isn't “schismatic”...? But adherence to a reverential liturgy common to the experience of Catholics throughout the ages, that's “schismatic”...? Be real! 🙄
Are you implying that the SSPX are sede or schismatic? Perhaps you misspoke?
I wasn't clear. SSPX isn't sede or technically schismatic. Kennedy Hall and the investment advisor are schismatic@@lovesrlady2
@@jerseycitysteveReally now. Your pomposity is matched by your absurdity.
Have you considered teaching creative writing?@@LUIS-ox1bv
SSPX still in schism.
No SSPX is not in schism,the unjust excommunication imposed by JP2,was lifted and unturned by BXV1, restored TLM through his Motu proprio,summorum pontificium, instructing bishops of the world to train and allow the wider celebration of the Mass in their dioceses.
@@damianikpeazu4681Lay people, running about screaming, SCHISM! Schism from what? Rome? It's barely Catholic, let alone Christian. What a joke.
Rubbish.
@@damianikpeazu4681 lol it was not lifted give me a quote
@@chrisekstrom4614 Resisitng Peter? Yup you're right. It's not Catholic
Go. To. SSPX! ✝️✝️✝️