I don't like The man repillent clothes thing. It puts the responsibility back on women to stop harrasment. It's men's responsibility to not harras, not ours to stop them.
Literally! Exactly what I was thinking. Why is it always on the woman/femme presenting person to wear the right thing rather than on the men acting on and perpetuating misogynistic behavior and violence?????
It would've been best if she made it clear if she doesn't support wearing certain clothes with the *intention* of repelling men. 1 I dress similarly because I enjoy it and get a similar reaction of men being too scared to talk to an extra looking girl. I'll get complimented by women saying that I look like a fairy, but men avoid talking to me like the plague. 2 That doesn't mean a man wouldn't attack me and take advantage of me if he got the opportunity without a moment's thought to my outfit. It's in no way foolproof, nor would I recommend any woman change how she dresses to avoid being harassed or attacked. Both 1 & 2 can be true at the same time. Social medias like tiktok and twitter are bad places for discourse imo. It's hard to make complex arguments and their algorithms favor short, inflammatory blips of thoughts and discussions, which are largely unhelpful or damaging. PS her outfit is fire and is 100% something I'd wear to my local farmer's market or a friend's party.
@@ItsMeBarnaby this is a false equivalency tho bc out of all of the evidence we have about what leads to sexual assault exactly 0 of it demonstrates any connection whatsoever between what a victim is wearing and an assault. Quality locks do deter most robberies because most robberies are crimes of opportunity. Sexual assault is almost never a crime of opportunity. It is in most cases the result of an orchestrated attempt on the part of the abuser to establish dominance over a victim. If most robbers were really just out for the rush they get from picking a lock then locks would also be a useless protection against robbery. There are things that people can do to become less vulnerable to abuse of all kinds but none of them involve what they’re wearing. Edit: typo
God this trend TERRIFIES me because it's pushing the exact same old belief that you can avoid being harassed by wearing the right clothes, and that it's your responsibility. It just has a trendy spin to it. Honestly I think it's spreading because people see it as a fun way to say "creepy men have bad tastes in clothes", but I really need everyone to think deeper about what ideas they're promoting
This! There was a political art exhibition, can't remember the name of the artist, but she basically showed photos of oufits that men had used to grape women in. There was absolutely no "trend" in those outfits, meaning not more revealing ones or anything like that. Just... clothes that women existed in. Grape is not the same as verbal harrassment but it's the same victim blamey dynamics of "watch what you were or don't complain afterwards". Even I sometimes wear men repellent outfits but I am aware that it's more to feel like I'm in control (which is an attitude that keeps at least the milder men away) and not because I think that I can genuinely save myself from being bothered in them.
yeah like instead of having these dozens of different things women must do to stay safe, why don't we just tell men to stop being monsters and cut it off at the source? i gotta say, it's incredibly easy to not be a predator -- i do it everyday 💀
I know right? This is what old teacher ladies at school used to tell girls when I was like 10: don't wear bright makeup, don't wear short skirts or shorts, don't wear anything that shows cleavage, don't dress "provocatively", don't "act like a slut", etc. It's the same shit, just with a new spin on it
im a dude dating a goth woman it sucks how people fetishize them so much, shes told me im the ONLY guy who didnt sexualize her in someway IN THE 1ST text convo its insane to me. it also sucks for guys who are in relationships with goth girls because the assumption is that i fetishize her it sucks so much😭😭😭
@@grey_f98Kind of. But it was niche and mostly a joke. It isn't a joke anymore lol the normal ass cishet dudes are unfortunately not repelled by anything now
Absolutely no outfit is man repellent. If a guy is gonna come up to you and be creepy, he’s gonna do it no matter what. I’ve gone out in sweats, a top I’ve owned since I was 10 (was big then lol), make up, no make up etc etc. still get approached. Even with my husband I get approached
I've seen exactly one man-repellent dress. It had a heart-rate monitor and servos in it that extended these big robotic spider legs when it detected stress in the wearer.
I’m able to dress in a way where I can pass as a man and I think that does repel them provided I don’t speak. But obviously accidentally convincing them you’re a man isn’t what’s being referred to
Yuuuuup. Short hair, long hair, covered up, barely dressed, quiet, talkative, nice, rude, THEY DONT CARE. You do not matter to them. They would do it to any woman standing there.
Sometimes I swear it's WORSE when you're dressed like crap and I wonder if it's cause the creeps are thinking we an easier target/have lower standards 😭
As an ace *and* sapphic girlie, I had to learn the hard way that there is just about nothing a woman can wear that'll make men leave us alone. On the bright side, now I feel a lot better dressing how I want to without worrying what anyone else thinks of it.
There is something a woman can do that makes men leave her alone, and it's honestly pretty fun. It's called a whole lot of chocolate ice cream and cookies.
i’ve never been catcalled and for a long time i thought it was because i dress modest and ‘cutesy’ (a lot of blouses and pink and skirts etc) but recently i realised that it’s actually just because of where i go rather than how i dress. i grew up fairly privileged, got driven places instead of taking the bus a lot, lived in a middle class neighbourhood, etc. i think it’s easy to find correlations like this when there aren’t actually any - it’s more about the men you encounter than how you present yourself.
Yep, pretty much the same for me. I got driven around by my parents, didint go out a lot to begon with but when I did, it was always to a friend's house.
Yeah, life is pretty different when you use public transport exclusively, along with walking. I sometimes spend double the time commuting in a public space versus an actual appointment, shopping trip or whatever so I encounter a fuckton of all sorts of men. I've never felt more at ease than when I lived on the countryside and had to drive everywhere by car.
@@PopcornEmma This is what we have to be doing- not doubting other people for having differing experiences, but looking at ways their context is different from yours. Good on u babes 🥰
Yup, driving myself around the suburbs lets me forget about the male gaze, but waiting for a bus in Corpus Christi meant getting honked or yelled at daily
the best thing about having exclusively neurodivergent friends is that we all look away when we are talking, and then make eye contact when the other person is talking. so nobody ever actually has to look the other in the eye, and everyone just understands 😂
This! I just very recently found my first ND friends through a support group and it's so freeing not to have to worry about anyone getting offended over frivolous and petty things like eye contact!
It’s so, so nice. Also having friends to whom you can say “I’m feeling a little overwhelmed, maybe we split up for some quiet time and reconvene” and who will say the same to you if they’re struggling… it’s a beautiful thing.
Yes! I felt so sad when Jarvis was sharing how he feels he needs to force himself to make eye contact bc his friends are talking shit about people who don’t. They need to do some work on internal bias bc that’s a very anti-ND stance :/
Unfortunately human beings are ultimately animals just like any other on earth who have simply attempted to convince themselves that they are different. There is nothing wrong with experiencing sexual attraction, it is literally hardwired into the human brain as a primary function of our existence on this planet.
I never really comment, but I have such strong feelings about man-repelling outfits that I wanted to give my thoughts. I also want to say that I'm autistic and very into aesthetic/art/styling, and have been since I was a teenager, so I have decades of personal experience. It's really upsetting to think about, but for men approaching you, I think it goes down to your perceived "accessability", and also a lot of men have a strongly built distaste for feminity. When I was a teenager, nothing I wore repelled men, and I was harassed far more then than I am as an adult. I looked young because I was, so to men with those intentions, I think they perceived me as accessible because of that inherent power imbalance. Also, if you're short, I don't think there's anything you can really wear as a woman to repel men, because your size makes you look "accessible", again, due to that inherent power imbalance. Besides those factors, I think a lot of high fashion/aesthetic outfits either repels men because they're intimidated by you (and again, making you inaccessible), or they have inherent negative beliefs about feminity, and view you as shallow/frivolously spending money/high maintenance, etc. I am ALWAYS approached way more by random men when I wear more "normal" or basic outfits than when I dress really well with my own style and aesthetic, to the point that I've learned to avoid dressing normal when out because I want to be left alone. Other things that I think come into play are the man's self-esteem, and also the inherent imagination and "projection" involved in attraction. If you're dressed casually and normally, you are more of a "blank canvas" as far as your personality can go, so I think it's easier for people to imagine you as matching their ideals. As the saying goes, it's better to leave something to the imagination, and I think that goes for physicallity and personality because people are excited by that mystery and will always fill-in what they most prefer if there's any romantic interest. Also, when people are insecure, all of their relationships can end up warped in this relational, internal desire to feel self-worth through other people in their life. If you, as a woman, look very well put together, certain men will really dislike you because when they compare themselves to you, they feel worse about themselves. They know they don't dress or look well, and they know that'll be more pronounced if you're on their arm. As a side note, an abusive ex of mine tried for YEARS (the entire relationship) to get me to change the way I dressed, and he told me many times it was because he felt bad about how he looked next to me because he wore old gym shorts and a t-shirt out for dates. He really wanted me to wear jeans and t-shirts, which is something I've never done, and I don't even like jeans due to sensory issues. God bless autistic rigidity, because I don't think most people could withstand years of abuse and problems caused by what they wear and refuse to change the way I did on that. On a note of the projection thing, any style that is commonly fetishized by certain groups of people (goth and alt, mainly), some men will always approach you because of that projection from their own personal fantasies. I also think Asian women have it particularly bad and can't really dress to repel men because of the intense, cultural festishization present in certain subcultures of people. People and attraction is really complex, but these are all of the factors that I know from myself, other women's experiences, and what I hear from men, and I personally find these rules and factors to be pretty reliable. Hope you find my thoughts interesting.
100% agree. I'm not autistic, so my dress sense isn't influenced by that - but the way I dress gets very different reactions from people depending on what I go with. Unfortunately, my usual clothes sense is appealing to a type of creepy old man, so I have to figure out how to deal with those interactions. Good on you though for dressing for comfort (both physical comfort and in terms of your style, which is mentally comfortable)
A guy and also had an ADHD spectrum, also an native Southeast Asian person that had a history of fetishization on fair and bright colored asian, this one really good and understandable view I need to know. And really, people and their attractions also their own process to get that are hard to depicher unless they opened up or something else happen to them opening them up.
I think something about the self-esteem point you made hit me hard as I read through your well put together perspective. I have seen both my ego and pride judge the outcome of my life for many years due to lack of experience and several unhealthy coping skills. Still are humans not meant to strive with other humans to reach a better relational capacity? I think we are all insecure in some sense, likely due to an all encompassing background rhythm of life. Idk..., I think what you said was awesome and I hope to be as well spoken as you someday!
fellow "neurodivergent aesthetics/personal style enjoyer" queer femme here, this is absolutely true. thankfully, I have a bit more of inherent "man-repelling" qualities due to being straight up taller than most men lol
In fact if you don’t fit the very narrow, patriarchal, white supremacist beauty standards I find that many men can be more violent in the way they they approach and talk about you. They feel more entitled to a positive reaction, as if they did you some kind of favor by giving you attention. Like a “who are you to turn down my advances” kind of attitude. Very scary.
The man repellent outfit thing is so untrue because as a wearer of lolita fashion (not related to the book, think like a poofy rococo era doll) men bother me WAY more when I'm frilled out than when I dress in my normie clothes. EDIT: lol oops, commented before Anastasia mentioned lolita fashion, unfortunately a lot of men assume weird outfits are a sex thing - lolita, goth, etc.
this, i'm not a girl but i'm afab so when i'm wearing my lolita coords in public people assume, which doesn't normally bother me- until i'm being hit on by someone. it almost feels like clockwork, where a guy will come up to me all flirty and it's so gross. it's not SUPPOSED to be a sexualized thing, but i feel like the more frilly/cute/unsexy my coord, the more disapproving and more creepy people are to me/the more they assume i'm doing a sex thing. i wish i could just fucking breathe in my own clothes. i don't mind polite compliments (though im very awkward about it), but flirts or judgement is just fucking aggravating after a while
Yall need to find a different term because that term literally originated from the book and every time you have to say that it just makes you look bad 😅
@@意地悪ちゃんisn't the vibe eternal yuothly innocent Alice in wonderland type beat. I guess that makes sense cause japan already does lots of that creepy youth prey stuff.
@@意地悪ちゃんso the Japanese people chose the word based on the fact that the aesthetic of the girl lolita was the aesthetic they liked? It's become divorced from the actual content of the book?
I work in a home improvement store which is still very male dominated. I’ve always thought if I dress more androgynous than I’ll be left alone. A man thought I was a boy and then when I corrected him he hit on me. It’s not about the clothes it’s about the attitude. People think they’re entitled to a woman’s nurturing, patience, and empathy. Women tend to feel obligated to give a piece of themselves to every interaction. You guys are teaching me to trust myself when I meet a bad man because there are men who respect women and they wouldn’t talk about women that way.
The man repellant thing is like entry level understanding of patriarchy which is why it sits in a space that doesnt make sense. It is anchored to the idea that the gendered harrassment and SV that happens under patriarchy is about men's desires and aesthetic preferences and not a tool of oppression. A man repellant outift is never going to be a coherent or cohesive concept because it buys into and is built on what it claims to be rejecting. It presupposes that harrassment and SV is about attraction and that attraction can be summarised by what Jordan refers to here as locker room talk. It perpetuates desirability while thinking it is critiquing it. I think you all spoke about and around it in a really accessible way.
I think harassment from men can be considered a tool of oppression but is also influenced by desires and aesthetic preferences. As a guy I've seen the types of dudes who will just sit out in public areas catcalling any woman they see, knowing they'll get 0 interaction, but there's also the type that will approach women in situations where a interaction would be forced, like their job or whilst eating etc. The second type uses this as a way to force the other party to have to interact in some way with the guy, and I feel like most of the time this is due to a level of attraction being present. I've seen guys go to extreme lengths to attempt to get an attractive woman's attention so they can essentially just catcall them but with a forced interaction, and this seems to be pretty common. Of course there's also the idea that many men hold that if a woman is wearing more "revealing" clothes its somehow an indicator of if she's open to being approached or not. I think the fact that so many men openly perpetuate this idea is a pretty clear indicator of how many men are acting based off of it.
@@JeanCaruso-uh3pwEven if men are acting out of attraction and not intimidation, it's still a very self-absorbed, entitled and scary way to act towards others. Especially when the man knows that the other person is "trapped" and forced to interact with him. It's pretty telling tbh.
@@JeanCaruso-uh3pw But I do think perpetuating that idea proofs that you are not exactly correct. The whole "what was she wearing" convo is born out of power, an entitlement to women's aesthetics and looks, under that power dynamic they justify and proof their claim to abuse. It is by all means a tool for oppression, in either direction. It is about who owns public space, and by extension who moves through it. The fact is what one was wearing never really mattered it only mattered that she was a woman occupying borrowed space. There is a reason trans women have huge numbers of sa's, it never was what they wore, but the disruption they represent. Dressing to avoid it only feeds their power and entitlement to women's bodies. It treats mens abuses as natural, and public space as theirs.
I recently got a TikTok of a woman talking about what she called "ugly privilege," which she described as being perceived as unattractive to men or invisible, which I can relate to. I live near NYC and go into the city often but have only been catcalled once in my life and never been approached by men so I guess my man-repellent is just existing.
Pretty much the same. I've been catcalled and approached by men when I was underage (creepy). Now, I developed "resting bitch face" so people are too intimidated to talk to me (not my words). Tbh, I feel so relieved that I am invisible to men... I can wear whatever I want and they don't notice me.
57:21 this entire bit of Anastasia speaking about her experience in how she dresses literally hit me like a ton of bricks. i realized that, while not the entirety of why i dress the way i do, this mindset is a meaningful piece of why i dress the way i do and how i slip into different roles based on the situation i am entering. if i know its gonna be a lot of men, i cover up, every time. it’s not a conscious thing, i just do it. thank you for making me feel less alone today. you guys are incredible people.
This. If cishet men didn't exist, everyone would be dressed in far more fun, interesting, revealing clothing. We all tone it down due to the general aura of intimidation that cishet men either actively create or silently benefit from.
When i dress in my style of all pastel colours and modest lolita dresses, people sexualise my clothes or say that men dont find it attractive 😭 even my parents assumed it was sexual :/ it sucks so much that its always assumed women are dressing for men and not themselves
52:07 as a lesbian i Have to chime in with my experience with this!! what anastasia said about men not liking a lot of makeup either is what brought this to mind. i understand this current conversation through the framework of gay gender roles as opposed to straight gender roles. i’ll speak exclusively about wlw here as i am not a gay man ! in lesbian/bi femme culture there is a recognized gender presentation that has been colloquially understood as butch (masculine) and femme (feminine). these can be further understood as two sides of a spectrum, with behaviors, clothing styles, and even jobs associated with each (lots of good resources online with more info about this!!). there is a somewhat common misconception in straight culture that these gender roles can be conflated with rigid sexual roles, but that isn’t true just as it isn’t true in straight gender roles. i’ll speak on dress specifically since that is what y’all are talking about! i’m sure everyone has an image spring to mind when they think of a masculine woman or a feminine woman, but butch and femme lesbians play up these roles in specific and sometimes exaggerated ways. for example, some high-femme lesbians will wear a lot of makeup and ultra fem clothing to contrast with their butch partner. (these roles are not strict however, two femme lesbians or two butch lesbians can date obvi just using this as an example) butch women such as myself will eschew traditional gender expectations by not shaving or never wearing makeup, or always wearing masc clothing. ok end of the mini history lesson time for my thesis lol i believe that these lesbian gender presentations have entered the popular culture through media osmosis. we are obviously in a very different time than the 80s and 90s and gender clothing expectations in the US are far less rigid, so the ability to both express and protect oneself are in our hands more than ever. alongside this gender based harassment is openly talked about in ways it never has been. so naturally women are doing what they have always done in secret: finding ways to protect themselves and communicating it to other women, but with the ability to do so en masse. i think this woman’s outfit has definitely prevented men from speaking to her in public, as people on tik tok often interact differently on the platform than they would in real life, typically more openly and bombastically. honestly some of the men commenting may also be like y’all and just be respectful enough to leave her alone. in conclusion i believe this has worked for her because it works for many lesbians i know. we are left alone when we overpresent gender roles, even if it’s the “correct” one. there’s certainly more to this conversation though, i just wanted to add my two cents!
jesus i did not mean to write a whole essay like that! i wrote this on my phone and couldn’t tell how long it was lol. if anyone reads this i will truly be amazed
Huge agree!! When I was a tomboy I got so much unwanted attention but as soon as I got into hyper-femme styles I've heard men actively ridicule my outfits behind my back (a win for me as a lesbian!) While girls give non-stop compliments! Obviously this isn't the experience for all femme lesbians as clothes will never be able to control creepy men's behaviour, but I noticed when I started performing this hyper-feminine aesthetic men started assuming I was high maintenance and bitchy instead of a "Cool girl" back when I wore baggy t-shirts and gamer merch.
@@Unfortunately_Mickey Lmao this comment! I am bi and really don't manage to box myself into *one* specific (queer) way of gender representation and I hate that I'm worrying so much about this. I too need a cute girl that just takes me however I am on any given day and that's it.
men don't like 'high maintenance', so i think there is some correlation to wearing the pastels and so on yeah. the demonias aren't enough tho. it's the pastels. i had steel toed demonias and dudes were all over me because i combined with red plaid and the like, not with pastels. so.
it happens to me a lot at work and I sit right by a bunch of windows. so people always think I'm looking at something interesting outside 😭 I feel seen
The two incidents that convinced me it's a weird power thing for dudes to come on to women on the street were getting cat called while pregnant (chances are considerably higher that I'm not available) and while helping a man up after he was hit by a car. It was the man who got hit. I am not a stunner by any stretch.
@@GenTink I have never thought about it that way. It doesn't surprise me though, it always felt like an entitlement thing to me. Like they just had the right to a woman's attention if they desired her.
@@arsemagossaye9759 Man (and some women with internalized migogyny) only have us believe that harrassment or worse is due to them being horny - because than they can blame us a lot better cause how dare we intentionally turn em on? They had much less of an excuse if they were open about the fact that it's always just a sick power play.
One of the most rude, abrasive cat- calling experiences I've ever had: I had just been in a car accident, and was standing next to the road crying and talking to the other driver. Someone screamed out of their passing car that they would "do" me. I think I was 21-22, on my way to work, and in that moment of trauma (no one was hurt, but it was terrifying), having someone make the effort to be gross at me felt extremely dehumanizing.
My gripe with people talking about "man-repellant" outfits is that it's just sort of victim blamey? like it puts the burden on women to dress a certain way to avoid unwanted attention and is sort of the other side of "well you were wearing x so you must want to be harrassed". Like I don't think any people in this trend are malicious but I do think it's not a great thing. Also while I'm not a woman and can't speak from experience, I am super into historical and lolita fashion and have heard from a lot of women in those communities that they're harassed *more* when they're dressed like that, not less. I think it circles back to what Anastasia said, it doesn't matter what you're wearing, this shit's still gonna happen.
not that u asked for this advice but what helps me when people are crossing some of my boundaries is to just risk ruining the vibe. easier said than done and something I'm still drilling into me after many years of avoiding conflict but i've found that risking the vibe getting weird is worth it when you're around people who understand and appreciate ur presence. the message i usually want to get across is "i want to continue having fun with you, just in a different way please" . it takes a lot of time to kind of let yourself do that, and its hard because theres not really a script for it (and people can be assholes about it) but i've found if people can take it in stride, it makes things a lot smoother in the long run
When I was really depressed freshman year of college, I didn’t wear makeup, wore oversized shirts and sweatpants, had my hair either unwashed, unbrushed, or in a clip. Didn’t wash my face or brush my teeth regularly. Zero men looked at me. In fact it felt like I was invisible which I preferred. On the rare days when I wanted to feel good about myself, do some makeup, wear a cute basic feminine outfit, I felt like I was on display. I was so uncomfortable and anxious. Guys would stare or come up and ask for my number when I was studying. This affected me so much that I just stopped dressing feminine all together even after working on my mental health.
@@hannahzwic5975I’m straight but because of my artsy aesthetic (dyed hair, nose piercing, tattoos, colorful clothes, novelty earrings) I’ve been mistaken for wlw by wlw. But let me tell you I feel so much safer being hit on by sapphics than straight men. There’s genuine appreciation for your beauty that doesn’t feel predatory and less chances of being lashed out at when you tell them “no”. Contrary to popular belief, majority wlw don’t think they can “turn you gay” the way straight men think they can turn lesbians “straight”.
M*A*S*H is a special show for me; my Grandma always had it playing in her cozy sewing room and it’s my comfort show. It’s special to her because my grandpa served in Korea. They fell in love over letters while he was there.
Same, I used to sneak out of bed at night and watch MASH reruns with my dad. That show is very special to me because of those memories and his ringtone when he calls me is the MASH theme song.
Lol the worst feeling is when your getting roasted and you mistakenly show it’s getting to you and they start going harder 😭😭 I will be on the brink of tears
@chelseybrown2334 I don't know your situation but I need you to know that you don't have to tolerate anything that upsets you, even slightly, even if you think you're being "too sensitive".
"Best" unwanted interaction I've had with a man Me: *minding my business, wearing shorts (my bad I guess)* Man walking by: Nice thighs, ma'am SIR, DO YOU THINK SAYING "MA'AM" MAKES IT ANY LESS FUCKING WEIRD? Runner up: A man starting an unnecessary convo at the gym about my short hair and questioning if I cut it BECAUSE OF TRAUMA... Like, me saying "I like it short" and him insistently asking, "so no trauma? nothing happened?" BRO???
@@NoiseDay Bro was definitely looking for a reason to accept MY CHOICE to have short hair, because a woman wanting short hair despite it not fitting his desires was BEYOND his comprehensive depth of a freaking kiddie pool 🙄
Dude was looking for vulnerabilities. Like, “well she might not be performing traditional femininity, but she might be DAMAGED enough that I have a shot at manipulating her with her daddy issues”
I had a guy come up to me and go “Red hair huh? You know what I’ve heard about girls with red hair….? They’re fiery.” (Eyebrow waggle) “You a fiery girl?”🤢 He was like 60 and I was in my early 20s. I died my hair blue that same week lol didn’t realize hair color was some kind of secret sex code or something.…wtf
Being a goff/alt girly is kinda weird bc i have a 2 looks; homeless man and vampire forgeting what decade it is, both are men repellant to a degree, but then just attract a different group anyway. Dudes who think you look the most approachable or dudes who gives you way too much "i do be scrolling r/ gothsloots to find a lil thing like you" looks. Does not help that im short and small of boob, and old men keep thinking im a minor when im 25 and i dont like when they approach me to let me know they think im a child and want to talk to me.. Lol, now i get suspicious of dudes who hit on me like "which fetish do YOU have??? Is it a wheres the police kind? Or a polite exit kind?" Also, the anxiety of WHEN am i supposed to say "i have a boyfriend" in the convo without being BERRATED?? Its either "why the fuck didnt you say so sooner?" Or "why the fuck are you so narcisistic im just talking to you!" Like the answer is i did one bc idk what your intensions are, i dont read minds man go away PLEASE
The MASH theme does have words in the Altman movie, it’s called “Suicide is painless” and I think you can infer why that was not allowed on network television. The show and movie are a lot different in tone and purpose. But I don’t diss either! Mad respect
The lyrics of which were written by a 15-year-old in 5 mins after his Dad gave up on trying to write the lyrics himself They almost called the movie "suicide is painless" as well
I really like the lyrics and don’t believe they were written to be stupid (I know that’s what’s officially said). It really does just sound like a serious song about the topic imo. I feel like they just said it was comedic and absurd to avoid controversy around the actual subject matter.
The fact I misread 'posted 3 minutes ago' as 'posted 3 months ago' and was very confused how I hadn't watched this and there was so few likes and comments and even views-
When i was thirteen, i was doing a fun town event with my mom where people (mostly young kids) were put on a scavenger hunt around the square. I was wearing a summer dress and glasses and was sweating profusely. Regardless of all of these factors, i still got catcalled. It doesnt matter what a girl wears, there’s a pretty high chance she wont repel men.
I believe it's not about the clothing that women wear, but the "aura" they have. For example, I am (unfortunately) a very "angry" person, I have a disgusted face almost 100% of the time, and I don't talk a lot. People said to me that I come off as "intimidating"/snob etc., or that I give out a vibe of hating everything and everyone, and people just leave me be. And as much as I hate being perceived as this "negative" person, I love how it makes me "invisible". Furthermore I noticed, that whenever I am going out and drinking, I become more bubbly, positive etc., and it attracts people, especially creeps.
Yeah. As a kid, I really idolized Hawkeye's dedication to taking care of people. I'd have to rewatch to be sure, but I think the only area where the show was frustratingly dated was in its treatment of women. It's kinda depressing because everything else about the show sets it up to be empowering as hell (women medical professionals handling the horrors of war with the same expertise and relative calmness as their male peers) and then ruins that by making objectifying jokes toward almost every woman who makes it on screen. I guess the 70s were still the 70s.
@@charliekellyyeah, thats my perspective too. But i also think in some ways they were trying there too in that they let the women be humans vs putting them on a perfection pedestal.
as someone who has thought WAY too much about the male gaze and how to subvert it, i've learned that it's not really useful for me to worry so much. my joy in dressing how i want is much more fulfilling. and sometimes that is dressing super feminine and trendy, sometimes it is dressing like a toddler or androgynous, whatever lol. i think joy and personal happiness should be seen as a form of individual, everyday rebellion and rejection of the male gaze (in this case, it also works for other things too sometimes).
I appreciate that Jarvis and Jordan are able to say really relatable things about overanalyzing interactions. I signed up for therapy recently thinking that this is just something that happens to me. It's good to know I'm not an outlier, at least on here
i am afab and i dress both masculinely and femininely, though i go agree that men prefer more simple outfits the only times i've been approached by men has been wearing a mini skirt and corset top, and the other, too big army sweatpants, and an oversized broken string plaid button up hoodie. men do not care what you wear, there is a man that would be into it. i definitely get approached less than my friends that dress "basic," but i do not believe man repellent is real. the only thing i can gather is that because i have very specific fashion sense, people think i'm weird. so just be weird?
Yea fr I thought I was doing fine on my quest till someone decided I'm "not like other girls" and therefore must be courted Spoiler : I wuv the other girls
On the eye contact note, I love to hear that I’m not the only one who is constantly debriefing myself on social interactions. I’m an autistic guy in sales. I used to make minimal eye contact because often times I can’t think if I don’t look away. I’ve started to also try to do it more because I realized how much it means to other people. I still connect with others the same amount whether we’re making direct eye contact or not, but it clearly means a lot to people. I started to notice those who I met eyes with while saying goodbye not only seemed more touched, but returned more often. Human nature is so funny.
I’m autistic too, but I feel like my problem is I don’t know how to make eye contact without someone taking it as flirting or intimidating. I was decent at juggling it all before the pandy, but now I can’t make appropriate eye contact, monitor my body language and facial expressions, *and* stay on track with what I’m saying all at the same time 🙃 Then I accidentally give people the wrong impression. That being said, I also just have so many neurodivergent friends and family that I don’t get that much practice masking these days. 90% of the people I interact with on a regular basis won’t even notice if I don’t make eye contact, or they know I’m autistic so they don’t expect it. Which is great when I’m with them, but out in the neurotypical world… not so much 😅
@@melissastory1993 I work with a lot of women in my same profession who are also autistic and have a very similar experience with customers. They don’t have this experience as much with women or close friends, I think because they;re not masking as much and can be more genuine with their expressions and actions. There’s an idea in the autistic community that a lot of masking involves fawning to appease neurotypical environments, especially for autistic women, who are usually more harshly criticized for not picking up on social cues than their male autistic peers. Men who are blunt are just… blunt. Women who are blunt are b)tches. My female autistic coworkers are frequently either considered inappropriately flirty, or in the opposite direction, considered incompetent at their jobs because they’re more direct in their communication or are not flattered by advances. I’ve had to “steal” a customer from a female coworker because he refuses to hear what she’s saying, until I say the same thing, in which he is suddenly convinced and totally overlooks my coworker. It’s shitty to engage with, even as I do it to relieve my coworker of the customer’s stubbornness. There’s an additional layer of disgust/irony for me specifically because, I’m a trans guy, so I’ve experienced it as a girl, too. Weird to have to intervene now as a man to get these weirdos that won’t listen to their sales associate because she happens to be a woman, just so the transaction will end. Sorry for the ramble. I hope this helps you feel less responsible for the attributes people apply to your behavior. It will be difficult, but I’d recommend looking into a boundaries book and learning to tell people that they misunderstood you/your intentions. I’m still learning how to tell people they’re incorrect or that I’m not what they think. Apologies if you’re not a lady, I assumed from the username and it sounded like the experiences of my female autistic coworkers.
What Anastasia said about even though certain outfits don't actually repel men, your brain tells you it's safer hit so hard. I hate wearing dresses in public and most of my outfits consist of oversized T shirts and big pants. It's really a shame because I have such a fun, unique fashion sense, but I hate wearing any of my pretty clothes outside because I feel more observed when I'm wearing them, whether I'm actually being looked at or not
i've been approached in my most "15 y.o teenage boy taking out the trash because his mom is mad at him" outfits just as creepily as i've been while wearing the sexiest mini skirts i own. alas, there'll be no "repellent" for idiots, predators and douchebags as long as they exist and choose to behave this way
the most foolproof man-repelling outfit is having the meanest looking RBF possible. whenever i’m walking in public, i don’t necessarily frown, but i make a conscious effort to look somewhat intimidating. i also stand up straight with my shoulders back and make myself look as big as possible. but i’m 5’7” and around 200 lbs so i do have a big advantage there that shorter women don’t have
I am a very short woman (4'11") but I have RBF due to lifelong chronic pain and it does not repel men. If anything it encourages them to come up and tell me to smile or ask why I'm so mad in a flirtatious way. There is no true repellent that works for everyone because men just feel entitled to our time and our effort and our space and our bodies and our presence.
when i had these huge dyed afro puffs for a summer i CONSTANTLY truly constantly got compliments wherever i went but EXCLUSIVELY from women/femme looking ppl. it was ridiculous how men dont compliment women unless they're conventionally attractive
As as alt femme presenting person i get more compliments from older ladies and little kids when i wear more extreme makeup and outfits and when i wear simpler stuff that's still considered alt i get more unwanted attention from men. A tanktop, skirt, fishents and quick eyeliner + black lip? Definitely getting some stares. But if i wear my huge platforms, chains, lots of jewelry and complicated makeup i inevitably get an older woman stopping me to talk about how cool my boots are. I think it's the confidence/presence difference. I'm a lot more intimidating when i'm dressed up despite being short but when i'm not dressed up i definitely look like someone who would be easier to intimidate or impress
I feel like theres such a myth that men like pink hyper feminine outfits.. they absolutely do not. Creepy men hate masculine features yeah but they also hate hyper feminity, theyre looking for that "natural beauty" look (that requires a lot of make up and hair products) but from my experience, they tend to be repelled by hyper feminine outfits because it triggers some kind of "bimbo protocol" where they assume you're high maintenance and "fake" so they steer clear. At least in my experience, whenever i wore my most "13 yr old boy" shapeless box bleach stained t-shirt and baseball cap, i got way more guys approaching me but when i got into EGL/Ryousangata fashion... crickets. I heard some guys make fun of me for being "ditzy" but absolutely none of them said it to my face. This trend is for sure depressing but i hope it finally ends the myth that men are attracted to pink hyper girly fashion so that I, a lesbian, can stop being told I'm catering to the male gaze by wearing pink and heels :)
There was a time in my early twenties where it felt like every week I would try a new public costume to avoid men. I would purposely dress how I heard men on youtube comments or other sources of unsolicited advice say they didn't find attractive (too much makeup, no makeup, etc) because I was just so tired of the bs I got from men in public. I'm sad to report that it just never fucking works. You gotta just wear whatever you want and brace for the uncomfortable moments and I guess just try your best to be safe. Luckily for me I'm noticing it happening less now that I'm nearing 30 and I love that
Some women my age complain that people ignore you once your reach middle age, and maybe it's because I look young for my age, but I didn't find that to be true even when I was dressing for invisibility.
The theme song of MASH originally had lyrics in the movie, but they were very dark [the game of life is hard to play, I’m gonna lose it anyway; etc.], so they were removed when it was used as the theme song of the show (because it is a comedy show after all). I really like the theme song with the original lyrics though.
I think the veneer of "man repellent" outfits was broken for me years ago when I got hit on by a man clearly 20 years older than me as a minor when I was wearing a large baggy hoodie with pants at a gas station in the pouring rain I think the only thing even denoting that I was female was lipstick
I understand wanting to avoid unwanted attention from men, but I think the man-repellent outfit trend is a dangerous one because it perpetuates the idea that women are to blame in cases of harassment. This idea that if you didn't want a certain interaction or even a life-altering traumatic event, than you simply shouldn't have dressed the way you did, leads to victim blaming, and limits women's sense of freedom to exist and express themselves. I'm sure we all find ourselves using clothing to avoid the unwanted attention every now and then, but I believe the real harm in this is when it becomes an internet trend. Men see these trends too and my fear is that it will lead more people to assume that if you are wearing certain clothes then you are "asking for" something.
I get your point but I would rather wear men repellent clothes than wait around for ppl to change.or to risk myself in to be in danger anywhere else near men.if you think about it this way that woman are wearing clothes for self defence it should be the woman who push these victim blaming onto others that should be called out on not the ones who want to protect themselves.and wearing repellent clothes are for occasions which we know we will have uninviting guests, a lot of us just want a dress code we can feel safer in. When we are around our friends it’s a different thing.
I've been on the "repelling outfit" vibe since the pandemic started because I don't want people to get close to me and give me COVID, lmao. I'm kinda shocked that people would put actual effort into these outfits having a particular style, I just try to look as busted as possible. Gross hair, loose pyjama shirts, I always wear a mask in public places, and it's been working pretty well lol
@@ekitkatt Same with the face masks. Virtually no one wears them here in Germany anymore and I feel like people judge me all the harder for it because I'm a young woman. But those people's approval won't fix a fucked up long or pay for long covid treatment so they may go ahead and give me dirty looks until their eyes fall out.
personally I make too MUCH eye contact i fear 😭 like im not sure ?? but dear god when i’m meeting someone new i become so conscious of it (Im 98% sure im autistic (peer reviewed 💀) and also have anxiety)
peer reviewed? 💀 as somebody who’s diagnosed shut up you can talk abt this stuff but stop going around drowning out autistic voices when you don’t even have a diagnosis
I’ve been consistently dressing in a way where only my hands and face are uncovered (frequently also including a headscarf) recently and it feels so good 1)bc I love fashion and I put together cute outfits 2) I have horrible horrible sun sensitivity and I like to be covered and it’s just like so pleasant to realize I enjoy this. I keep thinking about how nice a burka must be as a means of just concealing yourself from perception.
I shaved my head last summer and was totally anticipating to get hit on way less, especially since I often wear boyish clothes, but it really didn’t seem to make much of a difference. I honestly was surprised when I got cat called or approached cause I was like “no way this is what you’re attracted to”
It’s sad to say men would fuck anything.. I’d say different ppl have different taste so maybe if u keep experimenting you might find smth that might work.sorry to hear about ur experience
im really high so excuse me but I'm always so happy to catch a sad boys episode when i have time to, it's something I'm weirdly always in the mood for and i like listening to you guys talk about stuff. very enjoyable podcast. thank you.
I get so anxious about my drunk adventures even when nothing happens so hearing Jordan’s drunk story and realising I just thought it was a funny moment and not something horrible made me feel so much better about the time I’ve fallen when drunk. Thanks Jordan.
I have another theory. A lot of unwanted attention comes from creepy men, aka predators. Dressing very expensive and looking very confident speaks of a social status, which translates into a level of safety, as opposed to either being young, or dressing in a more regular way which means there are probably less resources at your disposal to make the men face any kinds of consequences.
Falling onto the Bart escalator is one of my worst fears. That is why I always just stand but getting off and on is the worst. This "dress like this to avoid male attention" is ikcy to me. Seems like it is just a retread of the "well what were you wearing, you must have been asking for it" so the bad behavior is somehow our fault or something we can mitigate.
I remember going to the mall with my friend a few months ago wearing my dad’s baggy sweatshirt and flare pants that were covered by my top. This guy came up to me with his friends behind him and asked for my insta. I said no bc I have a bf. The other two friends ended up coming up to me again asking if I was serious about rejecting him. Trust 🙏 Anastasia was right about how it never matters what you wear. That shi was so scary and those dudes were maybe 25?!? I was 17.
i love it when creators i "look up to" (theyre not Gods to me but i mean, they have my dream job, theyre cooler than me) let it shine through that theyre also a little neurospicy
the man repeller fashion blog was a huge deal last time this came around- dressing in clothes that follow runway trends and are a little avant garde so that men just think you look like you’re too into yourself or they don’t understand the purpose of your style choices
As a person who has also fallen on an escalator in the exact same fashion, I feel your pain! When the shock wore off, it was about the worst pain I'd ever been in up until that point. Hope your knee is back to normal now
I think what people on TikTok are calling the Male Gaze is just the collective preferences of the loudest, most obnoxious men online. Which makes perfect sense for man-repelling outfits- like, you're going to repel the kind of dude who's going to accost you in public. It's cool that people are sharing the strategies that make them comfortable! But sometimes I feel like people are just too fast to say "men generally prefer X" and "women generally prefer Y." People's preferences vary so widely, and not in a 1 for 1 correlation to gender roles, even assuming that we're talking about straight allosexual people. I think that's important to keep in mind.
i have a hard time with this trend because i understand it 100% however the phrasing might lead and contribute to the "well what was she wearing". if something happenes when NOT wearing an outfit like this
I’m a trans guy, and I came out when I was 15. Looking like a boy was the only thing that stopped the comments from random men. I was hit on a lot by older men when I was 12-14. I didn’t wear makeup, I was clearly a minor, and I was literally with my parents for some of them. Nothing will stop some men from commenting on your body unless they see you as a boy lol
48:27 there is something to be said about the type of women gross men don’t feel comfortable harassing. i start this by saying, there is no perfect victim. anybody can be a victim of a sex crime or harassment and every persons story is valid. but women who are louder, and who men perceive as more confident, tend to be the ones creeps keep distance from. if they think a woman is going to put up a fight and tell everybody who is anybody about their behaviour, they’re less likely to try something. if you’re going to attempt something on a stranger, the one who sticks out like a sore thumb probably isn’t the one you’ll choose. incels view a woman with a large presence as a threat, not so much as a target.
anastasia having a friend that’s a baby is so relatable because my roommate has a cat and it’s like… you’re not my cat.. but we do hang out. you’re my friend that’s a cat. and nobody has agreed w me on this
In my experience, those outfits get you compliments from some men but it is often then polite and kind men who just wanna say something nice and leave you alone after. I appreciate them alot and they sometimes even put a big smile on my face without feeling harassed.
Regarding what you said at 13:55ish, I relate so hard. Or... well, my problem is that I believe in the good in people and I sometimes waste my time trying to explain or argue things because they just seem to be miss-informed. But then sfter a while I realize that they're just purposely talking crap and then I feel stupid for wasting my time. Its especially annoying on the internet lmao.
my perhaps overly cynical take that no one asked for is that there is not really such a thing as a "man-repelling outfit" because sexual harassment isn't Really about attraction - it's about power. and imo it's very reductive to flatten "The Male Gaze" to just a list of superficial traits that men apparently do or don't find attractive, when it's much more nuanced, and much more sinister than that. i'm not going to refute anyone's personal experience, and if dressing a certain way makes you feel safer, that's wonderful! i just think it can be irresponsible to make generalizations about stuff like this, especially on tiktok where there's a lot of young people - children, even! - who will take what you say at face value.
Yeah I’m always a bit alarmed when people use Male Gaze this way. Babes that is an analysis of media and art term you can’t attach it to outfits 😭and I agree. I think a truly man repellent outfit would be…AK47s on the shoulders? Or maybe that all over body spiky thing like the one child from X men? But that’s because absolutely everyone is leaving you alone if your outfit can physically kill them lol
I don't like The man repillent clothes thing. It puts the responsibility back on women to stop harrasment. It's men's responsibility to not harras, not ours to stop them.
I agree very strongly, it seems like the antithesis of the feminist project and goal of self-determination in its entirety.
Literally! Exactly what I was thinking. Why is it always on the woman/femme presenting person to wear the right thing rather than on the men acting on and perpetuating misogynistic behavior and violence?????
It would've been best if she made it clear if she doesn't support wearing certain clothes with the *intention* of repelling men.
1 I dress similarly because I enjoy it and get a similar reaction of men being too scared to talk to an extra looking girl. I'll get complimented by women saying that I look like a fairy, but men avoid talking to me like the plague.
2 That doesn't mean a man wouldn't attack me and take advantage of me if he got the opportunity without a moment's thought to my outfit. It's in no way foolproof, nor would I recommend any woman change how she dresses to avoid being harassed or attacked.
Both 1 & 2 can be true at the same time. Social medias like tiktok and twitter are bad places for discourse imo. It's hard to make complex arguments and their algorithms favor short, inflammatory blips of thoughts and discussions, which are largely unhelpful or damaging.
PS her outfit is fire and is 100% something I'd wear to my local farmer's market or a friend's party.
@@ItsMeBarnaby The reality we live in proves that it's never been about what we wear. There is no item of clothing that will repel a r@#!$t.
@@ItsMeBarnaby this is a false equivalency tho bc out of all of the evidence we have about what leads to sexual assault exactly 0 of it demonstrates any connection whatsoever between what a victim is wearing and an assault.
Quality locks do deter most robberies because most robberies are crimes of opportunity. Sexual assault is almost never a crime of opportunity. It is in most cases the result of an orchestrated attempt on the part of the abuser to establish dominance over a victim. If most robbers were really just out for the rush they get from picking a lock then locks would also be a useless protection against robbery.
There are things that people can do to become less vulnerable to abuse of all kinds but none of them involve what they’re wearing.
Edit: typo
God this trend TERRIFIES me because it's pushing the exact same old belief that you can avoid being harassed by wearing the right clothes, and that it's your responsibility. It just has a trendy spin to it.
Honestly I think it's spreading because people see it as a fun way to say "creepy men have bad tastes in clothes", but I really need everyone to think deeper about what ideas they're promoting
Honestly this is a really great point that i hadnt thought of, thank you for bringing this up this is a really concerning aspect of this trend
This! There was a political art exhibition, can't remember the name of the artist, but she basically showed photos of oufits that men had used to grape women in. There was absolutely no "trend" in those outfits, meaning not more revealing ones or anything like that. Just... clothes that women existed in. Grape is not the same as verbal harrassment but it's the same victim blamey dynamics of "watch what you were or don't complain afterwards". Even I sometimes wear men repellent outfits but I am aware that it's more to feel like I'm in control (which is an attitude that keeps at least the milder men away) and not because I think that I can genuinely save myself from being bothered in them.
yeah like instead of having these dozens of different things women must do to stay safe, why don't we just tell men to stop being monsters and cut it off at the source? i gotta say, it's incredibly easy to not be a predator -- i do it everyday 💀
I know right? This is what old teacher ladies at school used to tell girls when I was like 10: don't wear bright makeup, don't wear short skirts or shorts, don't wear anything that shows cleavage, don't dress "provocatively", don't "act like a slut", etc. It's the same shit, just with a new spin on it
Very well worded. There should be articles written about this and studies done
as a goth femme, pre-tiktok, men used to avoid me, now, post-tiktok, men equate the way i dress with a desire to be sexualized.
wasn't "hot goth gf" a meme before tiktok became popular?
@@grey_f98yeah I guess it kinda was
im a dude dating a goth woman it sucks how people fetishize them so much, shes told me im the ONLY guy who didnt sexualize her in someway IN THE 1ST text convo its insane to me. it also sucks for guys who are in relationships with goth girls because the assumption is that i fetishize her it sucks so much😭😭😭
@@eyemaysinpfp instant W
@@grey_f98Kind of. But it was niche and mostly a joke. It isn't a joke anymore lol the normal ass cishet dudes are unfortunately not repelled by anything now
Absolutely no outfit is man repellent. If a guy is gonna come up to you and be creepy, he’s gonna do it no matter what. I’ve gone out in sweats, a top I’ve owned since I was 10 (was big then lol), make up, no make up etc etc. still get approached. Even with my husband I get approached
I've seen exactly one man-repellent dress. It had a heart-rate monitor and servos in it that extended these big robotic spider legs when it detected stress in the wearer.
I’m able to dress in a way where I can pass as a man and I think that does repel them provided I don’t speak. But obviously accidentally convincing them you’re a man isn’t what’s being referred to
Yuuuuup. Short hair, long hair, covered up, barely dressed, quiet, talkative, nice, rude, THEY DONT CARE. You do not matter to them. They would do it to any woman standing there.
I get approached at the gas station looking like a drowned rat lol. If men want to, they absolutely will.
Sometimes I swear it's WORSE when you're dressed like crap and I wonder if it's cause the creeps are thinking we an easier target/have lower standards 😭
As an ace *and* sapphic girlie, I had to learn the hard way that there is just about nothing a woman can wear that'll make men leave us alone. On the bright side, now I feel a lot better dressing how I want to without worrying what anyone else thinks of it.
Have you tried a giant neon sign that says "men dni"
@@NoiseDay tbh that would draw all the wrong ones in like a moth to a porch light
There is something a woman can do that makes men leave her alone, and it's honestly pretty fun. It's called a whole lot of chocolate ice cream and cookies.
@@merdufer wym?
@@heyhey439 waist to hip ratio
As a FedEx driver a good man repelling outfit is just our uniform
I've never had a woman FedEx driver so I don't know how women look in a FedEx uniform 😂
@@zacharymorrison7376never?? weird its like 50/50 where im at
the downside is that it's a dog attracting uniform 😂
Which is worse? The purple or the other team's brown?
Catnip to lesbians though 🏳️🌈👌
i’ve never been catcalled and for a long time i thought it was because i dress modest and ‘cutesy’ (a lot of blouses and pink and skirts etc) but recently i realised that it’s actually just because of where i go rather than how i dress. i grew up fairly privileged, got driven places instead of taking the bus a lot, lived in a middle class neighbourhood, etc. i think it’s easy to find correlations like this when there aren’t actually any - it’s more about the men you encounter than how you present yourself.
Yep, pretty much the same for me. I got driven around by my parents, didint go out a lot to begon with but when I did, it was always to a friend's house.
Yeah, life is pretty different when you use public transport exclusively, along with walking. I sometimes spend double the time commuting in a public space versus an actual appointment, shopping trip or whatever so I encounter a fuckton of all sorts of men. I've never felt more at ease than when I lived on the countryside and had to drive everywhere by car.
what a good point, I've never thought about that perspective
@@PopcornEmma This is what we have to be doing- not doubting other people for having differing experiences, but looking at ways their context is different from yours. Good on u babes 🥰
Yup, driving myself around the suburbs lets me forget about the male gaze, but waiting for a bus in Corpus Christi meant getting honked or yelled at daily
the best thing about having exclusively neurodivergent friends is that we all look away when we are talking, and then make eye contact when the other person is talking. so nobody ever actually has to look the other in the eye, and everyone just understands 😂
This! I just very recently found my first ND friends through a support group and it's so freeing not to have to worry about anyone getting offended over frivolous and petty things like eye contact!
It’s so, so nice. Also having friends to whom you can say “I’m feeling a little overwhelmed, maybe we split up for some quiet time and reconvene” and who will say the same to you if they’re struggling… it’s a beautiful thing.
Yes! I felt so sad when Jarvis was sharing how he feels he needs to force himself to make eye contact bc his friends are talking shit about people who don’t. They need to do some work on internal bias bc that’s a very anti-ND stance :/
I just look at people's noses, they can't tell the difference and makes me feel less uncomfortable
I *need* this 😂/😭
unfortunately it doesn't matter if we wear a bikini, a burqa, or basketball shorts--we can't escape men's attention. its so fucking exhausting
lol Just do what I do: Be hideous. Works all day, every day!
Unfortunately human beings are ultimately animals just like any other on earth who have simply attempted to convince themselves that they are different.
There is nothing wrong with experiencing sexual attraction, it is literally hardwired into the human brain as a primary function of our existence on this planet.
@pretty_saucy if being fat and hideous stopped weirdos I would be free from the shackles of men but alas.....
The horror 😱
I never really comment, but I have such strong feelings about man-repelling outfits that I wanted to give my thoughts. I also want to say that I'm autistic and very into aesthetic/art/styling, and have been since I was a teenager, so I have decades of personal experience. It's really upsetting to think about, but for men approaching you, I think it goes down to your perceived "accessability", and also a lot of men have a strongly built distaste for feminity. When I was a teenager, nothing I wore repelled men, and I was harassed far more then than I am as an adult. I looked young because I was, so to men with those intentions, I think they perceived me as accessible because of that inherent power imbalance. Also, if you're short, I don't think there's anything you can really wear as a woman to repel men, because your size makes you look "accessible", again, due to that inherent power imbalance. Besides those factors, I think a lot of high fashion/aesthetic outfits either repels men because they're intimidated by you (and again, making you inaccessible), or they have inherent negative beliefs about feminity, and view you as shallow/frivolously spending money/high maintenance, etc.
I am ALWAYS approached way more by random men when I wear more "normal" or basic outfits than when I dress really well with my own style and aesthetic, to the point that I've learned to avoid dressing normal when out because I want to be left alone. Other things that I think come into play are the man's self-esteem, and also the inherent imagination and "projection" involved in attraction. If you're dressed casually and normally, you are more of a "blank canvas" as far as your personality can go, so I think it's easier for people to imagine you as matching their ideals. As the saying goes, it's better to leave something to the imagination, and I think that goes for physicallity and personality because people are excited by that mystery and will always fill-in what they most prefer if there's any romantic interest. Also, when people are insecure, all of their relationships can end up warped in this relational, internal desire to feel self-worth through other people in their life. If you, as a woman, look very well put together, certain men will really dislike you because when they compare themselves to you, they feel worse about themselves. They know they don't dress or look well, and they know that'll be more pronounced if you're on their arm. As a side note, an abusive ex of mine tried for YEARS (the entire relationship) to get me to change the way I dressed, and he told me many times it was because he felt bad about how he looked next to me because he wore old gym shorts and a t-shirt out for dates. He really wanted me to wear jeans and t-shirts, which is something I've never done, and I don't even like jeans due to sensory issues. God bless autistic rigidity, because I don't think most people could withstand years of abuse and problems caused by what they wear and refuse to change the way I did on that. On a note of the projection thing, any style that is commonly fetishized by certain groups of people (goth and alt, mainly), some men will always approach you because of that projection from their own personal fantasies. I also think Asian women have it particularly bad and can't really dress to repel men because of the intense, cultural festishization present in certain subcultures of people.
People and attraction is really complex, but these are all of the factors that I know from myself, other women's experiences, and what I hear from men, and I personally find these rules and factors to be pretty reliable. Hope you find my thoughts interesting.
Thank you for writing this - this was an interesting perspective, and one I had never really thought about.
100% agree. I'm not autistic, so my dress sense isn't influenced by that - but the way I dress gets very different reactions from people depending on what I go with. Unfortunately, my usual clothes sense is appealing to a type of creepy old man, so I have to figure out how to deal with those interactions. Good on you though for dressing for comfort (both physical comfort and in terms of your style, which is mentally comfortable)
A guy and also had an ADHD spectrum, also an native Southeast Asian person that had a history of fetishization on fair and bright colored asian, this one really good and understandable view I need to know.
And really, people and their attractions also their own process to get that are hard to depicher unless they opened up or something else happen to them opening them up.
I think something about the self-esteem point you made hit me hard as I read through your well put together perspective. I have seen both my ego and pride judge the outcome of my life for many years due to lack of experience and several unhealthy coping skills. Still are humans not meant to strive with other humans to reach a better relational capacity? I think we are all insecure in some sense, likely due to an all encompassing background rhythm of life. Idk..., I think what you said was awesome and I hope to be as well spoken as you someday!
fellow "neurodivergent aesthetics/personal style enjoyer" queer femme here, this is absolutely true. thankfully, I have a bit more of inherent "man-repelling" qualities due to being straight up taller than most men lol
I have alopecia. Having no hair does not stop men from approaching you.
facts short hair/no hair is a ✨lewk✨ for some girls and they stand out more that way
For some reason I got hit on a lot while I was bald during chemo, so yeah hard agree. 💀
@@PanickinSkywalkernot the chemotherapy rizz. 💀
Nah fr I messed up cutting my hair once and had to go bald. Alas we serve.
In fact if you don’t fit the very narrow, patriarchal, white supremacist beauty standards I find that many men can be more violent in the way they they approach and talk about you. They feel more entitled to a positive reaction, as if they did you some kind of favor by giving you attention. Like a “who are you to turn down my advances” kind of attitude. Very scary.
@@vl5008Alas we serve is SUCH a line to drop
Nowhere in the sentence "this guy has a MASSIVE magnum costco-sized vodka bottle" did I know what word was coming next
The man repellent outfit thing is so untrue because as a wearer of lolita fashion (not related to the book, think like a poofy rococo era doll) men bother me WAY more when I'm frilled out than when I dress in my normie clothes. EDIT: lol oops, commented before Anastasia mentioned lolita fashion, unfortunately a lot of men assume weird outfits are a sex thing - lolita, goth, etc.
this, i'm not a girl but i'm afab so when i'm wearing my lolita coords in public people assume, which doesn't normally bother me- until i'm being hit on by someone. it almost feels like clockwork, where a guy will come up to me all flirty and it's so gross. it's not SUPPOSED to be a sexualized thing, but i feel like the more frilly/cute/unsexy my coord, the more disapproving and more creepy people are to me/the more they assume i'm doing a sex thing. i wish i could just fucking breathe in my own clothes. i don't mind polite compliments (though im very awkward about it), but flirts or judgement is just fucking aggravating after a while
Yall need to find a different term because that term literally originated from the book and every time you have to say that it just makes you look bad 😅
@@Unfortunately_MickeyIt literally factually didn’t. In Japan it was just a fancy, vaguely European sounding word which is the crux of the fashion
@@意地悪ちゃんisn't the vibe eternal yuothly innocent Alice in wonderland type beat. I guess that makes sense cause japan already does lots of that creepy youth prey stuff.
@@意地悪ちゃんso the Japanese people chose the word based on the fact that the aesthetic of the girl lolita was the aesthetic they liked? It's become divorced from the actual content of the book?
I work in a home improvement store which is still very male dominated. I’ve always thought if I dress more androgynous than I’ll be left alone. A man thought I was a boy and then when I corrected him he hit on me. It’s not about the clothes it’s about the attitude. People think they’re entitled to a woman’s nurturing, patience, and empathy. Women tend to feel obligated to give a piece of themselves to every interaction.
You guys are teaching me to trust myself when I meet a bad man because there are men who respect women and they wouldn’t talk about women that way.
someone please give jordan a sword and one million dollars and film him for the following week
He’d probably have an epic battle with the katana lady from the balcony
obsessed with the shots of jordan where it's just his head in like the bottom quarter of the frame
Looks like a documentary kinda
Mr Robot art film Jordan oooo
It’s an artistic choice almost
The man repellant thing is like entry level understanding of patriarchy which is why it sits in a space that doesnt make sense.
It is anchored to the idea that the gendered harrassment and SV that happens under patriarchy is about men's desires and aesthetic preferences and not a tool of oppression.
A man repellant outift is never going to be a coherent or cohesive concept because it buys into and is built on what it claims to be rejecting. It presupposes that harrassment and SV is about attraction and that attraction can be summarised by what Jordan refers to here as locker room talk. It perpetuates desirability while thinking it is critiquing it.
I think you all spoke about and around it in a really accessible way.
I think harassment from men can be considered a tool of oppression but is also influenced by desires and aesthetic preferences. As a guy I've seen the types of dudes who will just sit out in public areas catcalling any woman they see, knowing they'll get 0 interaction, but there's also the type that will approach women in situations where a interaction would be forced, like their job or whilst eating etc. The second type uses this as a way to force the other party to have to interact in some way with the guy, and I feel like most of the time this is due to a level of attraction being present.
I've seen guys go to extreme lengths to attempt to get an attractive woman's attention so they can essentially just catcall them but with a forced interaction, and this seems to be pretty common. Of course there's also the idea that many men hold that if a woman is wearing more "revealing" clothes its somehow an indicator of if she's open to being approached or not. I think the fact that so many men openly perpetuate this idea is a pretty clear indicator of how many men are acting based off of it.
@@JeanCaruso-uh3pw sorry if you got a notification for my rude initial reply. I shouldn't have sent it, it was unnecessary.
@@aj7058 No problem haha, I didn't see it but don't worry
@@JeanCaruso-uh3pwEven if men are acting out of attraction and not intimidation, it's still a very self-absorbed, entitled and scary way to act towards others. Especially when the man knows that the other person is "trapped" and forced to interact with him. It's pretty telling tbh.
@@JeanCaruso-uh3pw But I do think perpetuating that idea proofs that you are not exactly correct. The whole "what was she wearing" convo is born out of power, an entitlement to women's aesthetics and looks, under that power dynamic they justify and proof their claim to abuse. It is by all means a tool for oppression, in either direction. It is about who owns public space, and by extension who moves through it.
The fact is what one was wearing never really mattered it only mattered that she was a woman occupying borrowed space. There is a reason trans women have huge numbers of sa's, it never was what they wore, but the disruption they represent. Dressing to avoid it only feeds their power and entitlement to women's bodies. It treats mens abuses as natural, and public space as theirs.
“Ribbed for no pleasure” was such a subtle and underrated joke
time stamp??
nvm 41:33
I recently got a TikTok of a woman talking about what she called "ugly privilege," which she described as being perceived as unattractive to men or invisible, which I can relate to. I live near NYC and go into the city often but have only been catcalled once in my life and never been approached by men so I guess my man-repellent is just existing.
I definitely have that, too! It's so nice. I wish I could share this privilege because I know that my experience is not the norm.
Pretty much the same. I've been catcalled and approached by men when I was underage (creepy). Now, I developed "resting bitch face" so people are too intimidated to talk to me (not my words). Tbh, I feel so relieved that I am invisible to men... I can wear whatever I want and they don't notice me.
I have developed "batshit" privilege. If they can immediately tell you're willing to be crazier than they are, they try less
The worst thing is being firmly MID. Like too ugly for pretty privilege, too average to just be left alone 🥹
@@Unfortunately_MickeyGoals.
57:21 this entire bit of Anastasia speaking about her experience in how she dresses literally hit me like a ton of bricks. i realized that, while not the entirety of why i dress the way i do, this mindset is a meaningful piece of why i dress the way i do and how i slip into different roles based on the situation i am entering. if i know its gonna be a lot of men, i cover up, every time. it’s not a conscious thing, i just do it. thank you for making me feel less alone today. you guys are incredible people.
I had the exact same feeling. I teared up a little from just having the revelation.
This. If cishet men didn't exist, everyone would be dressed in far more fun, interesting, revealing clothing. We all tone it down due to the general aura of intimidation that cishet men either actively create or silently benefit from.
Jordan always looks like someone's hot dad, no matter the hair style, just his whole aesthetic
He's kinda dilfy
@OingoDeLaBoingo when he had the afro with the grey, it was very dilfy
@@SuperSuperSpork extremely
i think he might be THE dilf
children are sticky and neurotic, don't wish that evil on him. DINK be hotter than DILF. stepmoms are overrated
When i dress in my style of all pastel colours and modest lolita dresses, people sexualise my clothes or say that men dont find it attractive 😭 even my parents assumed it was sexual :/ it sucks so much that its always assumed women are dressing for men and not themselves
52:07 as a lesbian i Have to chime in with my experience with this!! what anastasia said about men not liking a lot of makeup either is what brought this to mind. i understand this current conversation through the framework of gay gender roles as opposed to straight gender roles. i’ll speak exclusively about wlw here as i am not a gay man !
in lesbian/bi femme culture there is a recognized gender presentation that has been colloquially understood as butch (masculine) and femme (feminine). these can be further understood as two sides of a spectrum, with behaviors, clothing styles, and even jobs associated with each (lots of good resources online with more info about this!!). there is a somewhat common misconception in straight culture that these gender roles can be conflated with rigid sexual roles, but that isn’t true just as it isn’t true in straight gender roles. i’ll speak on dress specifically since that is what y’all are talking about! i’m sure everyone has an image spring to mind when they think of a masculine woman or a feminine woman, but butch and femme lesbians play up these roles in specific and sometimes exaggerated ways. for example, some high-femme lesbians will wear a lot of makeup and ultra fem clothing to contrast with their butch partner. (these roles are not strict however, two femme lesbians or two butch lesbians can date obvi just using this as an example) butch women such as myself will eschew traditional gender expectations by not shaving or never wearing makeup, or always wearing masc clothing. ok end of the mini history lesson time for my thesis lol
i believe that these lesbian gender presentations have entered the popular culture through media osmosis. we are obviously in a very different time than the 80s and 90s and gender clothing expectations in the US are far less rigid, so the ability to both express and protect oneself are in our hands more than ever. alongside this gender based harassment is openly talked about in ways it never has been. so naturally women are doing what they have always done in secret: finding ways to protect themselves and communicating it to other women, but with the ability to do so en masse. i think this woman’s outfit has definitely prevented men from speaking to her in public, as people on tik tok often interact differently on the platform than they would in real life, typically more openly and bombastically. honestly some of the men commenting may also be like y’all and just be respectful enough to leave her alone.
in conclusion i believe this has worked for her because it works for many lesbians i know. we are left alone when we overpresent gender roles, even if it’s the “correct” one. there’s certainly more to this conversation though, i just wanted to add my two cents!
jesus i did not mean to write a whole essay like that! i wrote this on my phone and couldn’t tell how long it was lol. if anyone reads this i will truly be amazed
Huge agree!! When I was a tomboy I got so much unwanted attention but as soon as I got into hyper-femme styles I've heard men actively ridicule my outfits behind my back (a win for me as a lesbian!) While girls give non-stop compliments! Obviously this isn't the experience for all femme lesbians as clothes will never be able to control creepy men's behaviour, but I noticed when I started performing this hyper-feminine aesthetic men started assuming I was high maintenance and bitchy instead of a "Cool girl" back when I wore baggy t-shirts and gamer merch.
That's too complicated I just want a cute girl to have breakfast with sometimes
@@Unfortunately_Mickey Lmao this comment! I am bi and really don't manage to box myself into *one* specific (queer) way of gender representation and I hate that I'm worrying so much about this. I too need a cute girl that just takes me however I am on any given day and that's it.
men don't like 'high maintenance', so i think there is some correlation to wearing the pastels and so on yeah.
the demonias aren't enough tho. it's the pastels. i had steel toed demonias and dudes were all over me because i combined with red plaid and the like, not with pastels. so.
the eye contact is so real especially when they think you're looking at something interesting but its literally just a wall or something 😭
it happens to me a lot at work and I sit right by a bunch of windows. so people always think I'm looking at something interesting outside 😭 I feel seen
The two incidents that convinced me it's a weird power thing for dudes to come on to women on the street were getting cat called while pregnant (chances are considerably higher that I'm not available) and while helping a man up after he was hit by a car. It was the man who got hit. I am not a stunner by any stretch.
@@GenTink I have never thought about it that way. It doesn't surprise me though, it always felt like an entitlement thing to me. Like they just had the right to a woman's attention if they desired her.
@@arsemagossaye9759 Man (and some women with internalized migogyny) only have us believe that harrassment or worse is due to them being horny - because than they can blame us a lot better cause how dare we intentionally turn em on? They had much less of an excuse if they were open about the fact that it's always just a sick power play.
@@GenTink ewwwww
I also got catcalled once when I was pregnant!
One of the most rude, abrasive cat- calling experiences I've ever had: I had just been in a car accident, and was standing next to the road crying and talking to the other driver. Someone screamed out of their passing car that they would "do" me.
I think I was 21-22, on my way to work, and in that moment of trauma (no one was hurt, but it was terrifying), having someone make the effort to be gross at me felt extremely dehumanizing.
On Wednesday I had my first experience with a very old man "filming up my skirt" I was wearing jeans. I didn't realize that people still did that.
Jesus, I’m sorry to hear that
@@mauramaybe that's so incredibly fucked up I'm so sorry
My gripe with people talking about "man-repellant" outfits is that it's just sort of victim blamey? like it puts the burden on women to dress a certain way to avoid unwanted attention and is sort of the other side of "well you were wearing x so you must want to be harrassed". Like I don't think any people in this trend are malicious but I do think it's not a great thing. Also while I'm not a woman and can't speak from experience, I am super into historical and lolita fashion and have heard from a lot of women in those communities that they're harassed *more* when they're dressed like that, not less. I think it circles back to what Anastasia said, it doesn't matter what you're wearing, this shit's still gonna happen.
not that u asked for this advice but what helps me when people are crossing some of my boundaries is to just risk ruining the vibe. easier said than done and something I'm still drilling into me after many years of avoiding conflict but i've found that risking the vibe getting weird is worth it when you're around people who understand and appreciate ur presence. the message i usually want to get across is "i want to continue having fun with you, just in a different way please" . it takes a lot of time to kind of let yourself do that, and its hard because theres not really a script for it (and people can be assholes about it) but i've found if people can take it in stride, it makes things a lot smoother in the long run
I just be mean instead
If you're having a bad time, the vibe has already been ruined. Speaking up is just bringing it to everyone else's attention.
When I was really depressed freshman year of college, I didn’t wear makeup, wore oversized shirts and sweatpants, had my hair either unwashed, unbrushed, or in a clip. Didn’t wash my face or brush my teeth regularly. Zero men looked at me. In fact it felt like I was invisible which I preferred. On the rare days when I wanted to feel good about myself, do some makeup, wear a cute basic feminine outfit, I felt like I was on display. I was so uncomfortable and anxious. Guys would stare or come up and ask for my number when I was studying. This affected me so much that I just stopped dressing feminine all together even after working on my mental health.
Same🩵 i just hope i come across as gay ( which i am)
@@hannahzwic5975I’m straight but because of my artsy aesthetic (dyed hair, nose piercing, tattoos, colorful clothes, novelty earrings) I’ve been mistaken for wlw by wlw. But let me tell you I feel so much safer being hit on by sapphics than straight men. There’s genuine appreciation for your beauty that doesn’t feel predatory and less chances of being lashed out at when you tell them “no”.
Contrary to popular belief, majority wlw don’t think they can “turn you gay” the way straight men think they can turn lesbians “straight”.
M*A*S*H is a special show for me; my Grandma always had it playing in her cozy sewing room and it’s my comfort show. It’s special to her because my grandpa served in Korea. They fell in love over letters while he was there.
Same, I used to sneak out of bed at night and watch MASH reruns with my dad. That show is very special to me because of those memories and his ringtone when he calls me is the MASH theme song.
Lol the worst feeling is when your getting roasted and you mistakenly show it’s getting to you and they start going harder 😭😭 I will be on the brink of tears
That sucks. That's just malicious at that point. You don't deserve that 😢
@@arsemagossaye9759 I know they don’t mean it. I’m just sensitive lol
@chelseybrown2334 I don't know your situation but I need you to know that you don't have to tolerate anything that upsets you, even slightly, even if you think you're being "too sensitive".
@@crowskinned thank you!
"Best" unwanted interaction I've had with a man
Me: *minding my business, wearing shorts (my bad I guess)*
Man walking by: Nice thighs, ma'am
SIR, DO YOU THINK SAYING "MA'AM" MAKES IT ANY LESS FUCKING WEIRD?
Runner up: A man starting an unnecessary convo at the gym about my short hair and questioning if I cut it BECAUSE OF TRAUMA... Like, me saying "I like it short" and him insistently asking, "so no trauma? nothing happened?" BRO???
What was he even hoping for in that interaction?? 😂 Did he want your epic backstory?
@@NoiseDay Bro was definitely looking for a reason to accept MY CHOICE to have short hair, because a woman wanting short hair despite it not fitting his desires was BEYOND his comprehensive depth of a freaking kiddie pool 🙄
@@CherryCarry They always assume you’re either a lesbian or have trauma
Dude was looking for vulnerabilities. Like, “well she might not be performing traditional femininity, but she might be DAMAGED enough that I have a shot at manipulating her with her daddy issues”
I had a guy come up to me and go “Red hair huh? You know what I’ve heard about girls with red hair….? They’re fiery.” (Eyebrow waggle) “You a fiery girl?”🤢 He was like 60 and I was in my early 20s. I died my hair blue that same week lol didn’t realize hair color was some kind of secret sex code or something.…wtf
Being a goff/alt girly is kinda weird bc i have a 2 looks; homeless man and vampire forgeting what decade it is, both are men repellant to a degree, but then just attract a different group anyway. Dudes who think you look the most approachable or dudes who gives you way too much "i do be scrolling r/ gothsloots to find a lil thing like you" looks.
Does not help that im short and small of boob, and old men keep thinking im a minor when im 25 and i dont like when they approach me to let me know they think im a child and want to talk to me.. Lol, now i get suspicious of dudes who hit on me like "which fetish do YOU have??? Is it a wheres the police kind? Or a polite exit kind?"
Also, the anxiety of WHEN am i supposed to say "i have a boyfriend" in the convo without being BERRATED?? Its either "why the fuck didnt you say so sooner?" Or "why the fuck are you so narcisistic im just talking to you!"
Like the answer is i did one bc idk what your intensions are, i dont read minds man go away PLEASE
There is no appropriate time to say it
Those mad about being turned away will be salty regardless
It's a him problem not a you problem sister
The MASH theme does have words in the Altman movie, it’s called “Suicide is painless” and I think you can infer why that was not allowed on network television.
The show and movie are a lot different in tone and purpose. But I don’t diss either! Mad respect
MASH is the only TV show in the top 20 (was top 10 until this year) watched tv broadcasts in the US that isn’t a Super Bowl
The lyrics of which were written by a 15-year-old in 5 mins after his Dad gave up on trying to write the lyrics himself
They almost called the movie "suicide is painless" as well
@@LifeLostSoul yeah I know they were going for “stupidest song ever written” but I like it haha
I really like the lyrics and don’t believe they were written to be stupid (I know that’s what’s officially said). It really does just sound like a serious song about the topic imo. I feel like they just said it was comedic and absurd to avoid controversy around the actual subject matter.
Through early morning fog I see. . .
The fact I misread 'posted 3 minutes ago' as 'posted 3 months ago' and was very confused how I hadn't watched this and there was so few likes and comments and even views-
Sad Boyz lost media
its been three months babe pls wake up
When i was thirteen, i was doing a fun town event with my mom where people (mostly young kids) were put on a scavenger hunt around the square. I was wearing a summer dress and glasses and was sweating profusely. Regardless of all of these factors, i still got catcalled. It doesnt matter what a girl wears, there’s a pretty high chance she wont repel men.
I believe it's not about the clothing that women wear, but the "aura" they have. For example, I am (unfortunately) a very "angry" person, I have a disgusted face almost 100% of the time, and I don't talk a lot. People said to me that I come off as "intimidating"/snob etc., or that I give out a vibe of hating everything and everyone, and people just leave me be. And as much as I hate being perceived as this "negative" person, I love how it makes me "invisible". Furthermore I noticed, that whenever I am going out and drinking, I become more bubbly, positive etc., and it attracts people, especially creeps.
@freeky273 thats not even true either lol I have dudes hit on me when Im in a bad mood
@@freeky273 i agree
@@katc2040 thats also true
@@katc2040 True facts - this is when we get told "You'd look better if you smiled" ... can't win for losing.
MASH is actually a strangely progressive show that holds up pretty well considering the era that it's from.
Yeah. As a kid, I really idolized Hawkeye's dedication to taking care of people. I'd have to rewatch to be sure, but I think the only area where the show was frustratingly dated was in its treatment of women. It's kinda depressing because everything else about the show sets it up to be empowering as hell (women medical professionals handling the horrors of war with the same expertise and relative calmness as their male peers) and then ruins that by making objectifying jokes toward almost every woman who makes it on screen. I guess the 70s were still the 70s.
The show is set during the Korean War for a reason
@@charliekellyyeah, thats my perspective too. But i also think in some ways they were trying there too in that they let the women be humans vs putting them on a perfection pedestal.
as someone who has thought WAY too much about the male gaze and how to subvert it, i've learned that it's not really useful for me to worry so much. my joy in dressing how i want is much more fulfilling. and sometimes that is dressing super feminine and trendy, sometimes it is dressing like a toddler or androgynous, whatever lol. i think joy and personal happiness should be seen as a form of individual, everyday rebellion and rejection of the male gaze (in this case, it also works for other things too sometimes).
I appreciate that Jarvis and Jordan are able to say really relatable things about overanalyzing interactions. I signed up for therapy recently thinking that this is just something that happens to me. It's good to know I'm not an outlier, at least on here
i am afab and i dress both masculinely and femininely, though i go agree that men prefer more simple outfits the only times i've been approached by men has been wearing a mini skirt and corset top, and the other, too big army sweatpants, and an oversized broken string plaid button up hoodie. men do not care what you wear, there is a man that would be into it. i definitely get approached less than my friends that dress "basic," but i do not believe man repellent is real. the only thing i can gather is that because i have very specific fashion sense, people think i'm weird. so just be weird?
Yea fr I thought I was doing fine on my quest till someone decided I'm "not like other girls" and therefore must be courted
Spoiler : I wuv the other girls
On the eye contact note, I love to hear that I’m not the only one who is constantly debriefing myself on social interactions. I’m an autistic guy in sales. I used to make minimal eye contact because often times I can’t think if I don’t look away. I’ve started to also try to do it more because I realized how much it means to other people. I still connect with others the same amount whether we’re making direct eye contact or not, but it clearly means a lot to people. I started to notice those who I met eyes with while saying goodbye not only seemed more touched, but returned more often. Human nature is so funny.
I’m autistic too, but I feel like my problem is I don’t know how to make eye contact without someone taking it as flirting or intimidating. I was decent at juggling it all before the pandy, but now I can’t make appropriate eye contact, monitor my body language and facial expressions, *and* stay on track with what I’m saying all at the same time 🙃 Then I accidentally give people the wrong impression.
That being said, I also just have so many neurodivergent friends and family that I don’t get that much practice masking these days. 90% of the people I interact with on a regular basis won’t even notice if I don’t make eye contact, or they know I’m autistic so they don’t expect it. Which is great when I’m with them, but out in the neurotypical world… not so much 😅
@@melissastory1993 I work with a lot of women in my same profession who are also autistic and have a very similar experience with customers. They don’t have this experience as much with women or close friends, I think because they;re not masking as much and can be more genuine with their expressions and actions. There’s an idea in the autistic community that a lot of masking involves fawning to appease neurotypical environments, especially for autistic women, who are usually more harshly criticized for not picking up on social cues than their male autistic peers. Men who are blunt are just… blunt. Women who are blunt are b)tches. My female autistic coworkers are frequently either considered inappropriately flirty, or in the opposite direction, considered incompetent at their jobs because they’re more direct in their communication or are not flattered by advances. I’ve had to “steal” a customer from a female coworker because he refuses to hear what she’s saying, until I say the same thing, in which he is suddenly convinced and totally overlooks my coworker. It’s shitty to engage with, even as I do it to relieve my coworker of the customer’s stubbornness. There’s an additional layer of disgust/irony for me specifically because, I’m a trans guy, so I’ve experienced it as a girl, too. Weird to have to intervene now as a man to get these weirdos that won’t listen to their sales associate because she happens to be a woman, just so the transaction will end. Sorry for the ramble. I hope this helps you feel less responsible for the attributes people apply to your behavior. It will be difficult, but I’d recommend looking into a boundaries book and learning to tell people that they misunderstood you/your intentions. I’m still learning how to tell people they’re incorrect or that I’m not what they think. Apologies if you’re not a lady, I assumed from the username and it sounded like the experiences of my female autistic coworkers.
I feel like a bit of a sad boy today
as someone born female, i too am a sad boy for today
Hope you feel better soon friend!
Cookie for u 🍪
@@mariya_tortilla May your sad boyness be short-lived
I'm a sad boy
Yeah I've always been sad
I'm a sad boy
And I dress in all black
What Anastasia said about even though certain outfits don't actually repel men, your brain tells you it's safer hit so hard. I hate wearing dresses in public and most of my outfits consist of oversized T shirts and big pants. It's really a shame because I have such a fun, unique fashion sense, but I hate wearing any of my pretty clothes outside because I feel more observed when I'm wearing them, whether I'm actually being looked at or not
the bit about Jordan being preapproved for a PayPal credit card has finally returned!!!!! it makes me giggle every time lmao
Sad boyz black and white edition ❤
black. white. edition
The outfits are bringing me back….. black. White.
47:53 that’s the kind of outfit I’d start a conversation with them about bc it’s so cool.
i've been approached in my most "15 y.o teenage boy taking out the trash because his mom is mad at him" outfits just as creepily as i've been while wearing the sexiest mini skirts i own. alas, there'll be no "repellent" for idiots, predators and douchebags as long as they exist and choose to behave this way
Imagine making a tiktok about how to repel men and ending up being the topic of a podcast where boyz is literally in the title 🥲
they are sad about it though so maybe a win
Jarvis: I hate olives
Me: Would you say you hate... _olive_ them?
Personally olive olive the olives I've met
the most foolproof man-repelling outfit is having the meanest looking RBF possible. whenever i’m walking in public, i don’t necessarily frown, but i make a conscious effort to look somewhat intimidating. i also stand up straight with my shoulders back and make myself look as big as possible. but i’m 5’7” and around 200 lbs so i do have a big advantage there that shorter women don’t have
I am a very short woman (4'11") but I have RBF due to lifelong chronic pain and it does not repel men. If anything it encourages them to come up and tell me to smile or ask why I'm so mad in a flirtatious way. There is no true repellent that works for everyone because men just feel entitled to our time and our effort and our space and our bodies and our presence.
I’m 5’9, and have had a RBF my whole life. It doesn’t work. There is literally nothing in this world that will stop men from approaching you.
@@hotwaterisspicyWhen I got told to smile once, I told the guy I was in town for my brother’s funeral. (I was not.) His face fell and he dipped.
when i had these huge dyed afro puffs for a summer i CONSTANTLY truly constantly got compliments wherever i went but EXCLUSIVELY from women/femme looking ppl. it was ridiculous how men dont compliment women unless they're conventionally attractive
holy fuck Jordan is so funny im in tears
As as alt femme presenting person i get more compliments from older ladies and little kids when i wear more extreme makeup and outfits and when i wear simpler stuff that's still considered alt i get more unwanted attention from men. A tanktop, skirt, fishents and quick eyeliner + black lip? Definitely getting some stares. But if i wear my huge platforms, chains, lots of jewelry and complicated makeup i inevitably get an older woman stopping me to talk about how cool my boots are. I think it's the confidence/presence difference. I'm a lot more intimidating when i'm dressed up despite being short but when i'm not dressed up i definitely look like someone who would be easier to intimidate or impress
I feel like theres such a myth that men like pink hyper feminine outfits.. they absolutely do not. Creepy men hate masculine features yeah but they also hate hyper feminity, theyre looking for that "natural beauty" look (that requires a lot of make up and hair products) but from my experience, they tend to be repelled by hyper feminine outfits because it triggers some kind of "bimbo protocol" where they assume you're high maintenance and "fake" so they steer clear. At least in my experience, whenever i wore my most "13 yr old boy" shapeless box bleach stained t-shirt and baseball cap, i got way more guys approaching me but when i got into EGL/Ryousangata fashion... crickets. I heard some guys make fun of me for being "ditzy" but absolutely none of them said it to my face.
This trend is for sure depressing but i hope it finally ends the myth that men are attracted to pink hyper girly fashion so that I, a lesbian, can stop being told I'm catering to the male gaze by wearing pink and heels :)
Honestly, "can I give you my number" feels so much better coz it gives the other person all the agency
There was a time in my early twenties where it felt like every week I would try a new public costume to avoid men. I would purposely dress how I heard men on youtube comments or other sources of unsolicited advice say they didn't find attractive (too much makeup, no makeup, etc) because I was just so tired of the bs I got from men in public. I'm sad to report that it just never fucking works. You gotta just wear whatever you want and brace for the uncomfortable moments and I guess just try your best to be safe. Luckily for me I'm noticing it happening less now that I'm nearing 30 and I love that
Some women my age complain that people ignore you once your reach middle age, and maybe it's because I look young for my age, but I didn't find that to be true even when I was dressing for invisibility.
@@heyhey439 so you are straight and don't want to be approached by men.
@@heyhey439 but not every man you meet in public is going to be weird or creepy.
@@sunitagupta-is5ku and?
@@heyhey439 and nothing .All I am saying is that not all of them are weird and just want to meet and date people .
The theme song of MASH originally had lyrics in the movie, but they were very dark [the game of life is hard to play, I’m gonna lose it anyway; etc.], so they were removed when it was used as the theme song of the show (because it is a comedy show after all). I really like the theme song with the original lyrics though.
I think the veneer of "man repellent" outfits was broken for me years ago when I got hit on by a man clearly 20 years older than me as a minor when I was wearing a large baggy hoodie with pants at a gas station in the pouring rain
I think the only thing even denoting that I was female was lipstick
Yep, there is no saving us from men doing that lol, unless you don't go out at all. It really sucks
I understand wanting to avoid unwanted attention from men, but I think the man-repellent outfit trend is a dangerous one because it perpetuates the idea that women are to blame in cases of harassment. This idea that if you didn't want a certain interaction or even a life-altering traumatic event, than you simply shouldn't have dressed the way you did, leads to victim blaming, and limits women's sense of freedom to exist and express themselves. I'm sure we all find ourselves using clothing to avoid the unwanted attention every now and then, but I believe the real harm in this is when it becomes an internet trend. Men see these trends too and my fear is that it will lead more people to assume that if you are wearing certain clothes then you are "asking for" something.
I get your point but I would rather wear men repellent clothes than wait around for ppl to change.or to risk myself in to be in danger anywhere else near men.if you think about it this way that woman are wearing clothes for self defence it should be the woman who push these victim blaming onto others that should be called out on not the ones who want to protect themselves.and wearing repellent clothes are for occasions which we know we will have uninviting guests, a lot of us just want a dress code we can feel safer in. When we are around our friends it’s a different thing.
Got the Unus Annus going on today
I've been on the "repelling outfit" vibe since the pandemic started because I don't want people to get close to me and give me COVID, lmao. I'm kinda shocked that people would put actual effort into these outfits having a particular style, I just try to look as busted as possible. Gross hair, loose pyjama shirts, I always wear a mask in public places, and it's been working pretty well lol
I still mask too, people don’t say anything but they’ll stare or sometimes even glare at me lmao 😭 I just stare back 🙄
@@ekitkatt Same with the face masks. Virtually no one wears them here in Germany anymore and I feel like people judge me all the harder for it because I'm a young woman. But those people's approval won't fix a fucked up long or pay for long covid treatment so they may go ahead and give me dirty looks until their eyes fall out.
personally I make too MUCH eye contact i fear 😭 like im not sure ?? but dear god when i’m meeting someone new i become so conscious of it (Im 98% sure im autistic (peer reviewed 💀) and also have anxiety)
peer-reviewed lolll
same!! im probably autistic (peer reviewed) and i always feel like im staring people straight in the eye
peer reviewed? 💀 as somebody who’s diagnosed shut up you can talk abt this stuff but stop going around drowning out autistic voices when you don’t even have a diagnosis
@@millystars😐
@@millystarsthat’s literally how normal communication works
I’ve been consistently dressing in a way where only my hands and face are uncovered (frequently also including a headscarf) recently and it feels so good 1)bc I love fashion and I put together cute outfits 2) I have horrible horrible sun sensitivity and I like to be covered and it’s just like so pleasant to realize I enjoy this. I keep thinking about how nice a burka must be as a means of just concealing yourself from perception.
somehow you guys always manage to pick out the perfect unspoken topics, being a person is hard!!
demonias are the crazy-cool tall buckle goth boots she was wearing in that fit!!
I shaved my head last summer and was totally anticipating to get hit on way less, especially since I often wear boyish clothes, but it really didn’t seem to make much of a difference. I honestly was surprised when I got cat called or approached cause I was like “no way this is what you’re attracted to”
It’s sad to say men would fuck anything.. I’d say different ppl have different taste so maybe if u keep experimenting you might find smth that might work.sorry to hear about ur experience
im really high so excuse me but I'm always so happy to catch a sad boys episode when i have time to, it's something I'm weirdly always in the mood for and i like listening to you guys talk about stuff. very enjoyable podcast. thank you.
1:30 Jarvis I DO THE EXACT SAME THING I’m starting to think my ADHD manifests in an almost identical way to yours lol
Bro, this episode is hitting way to hard (this was in reference to thinking you can change people’s mind if they just understood your own perspective)
I get so anxious about my drunk adventures even when nothing happens so hearing Jordan’s drunk story and realising I just thought it was a funny moment and not something horrible made me feel so much better about the time I’ve fallen when drunk. Thanks Jordan.
It’s like y’all knew I had food to eat😌
I have another theory. A lot of unwanted attention comes from creepy men, aka predators. Dressing very expensive and looking very confident speaks of a social status, which translates into a level of safety, as opposed to either being young, or dressing in a more regular way which means there are probably less resources at your disposal to make the men face any kinds of consequences.
EDS CREEEW! Only found out a couple years ago but now Jordan is even more relatable than before 🤣
Me too! 🦓
Falling onto the Bart escalator is one of my worst fears. That is why I always just stand but getting off and on is the worst.
This "dress like this to avoid male attention" is ikcy to me. Seems like it is just a retread of the "well what were you wearing, you must have been asking for it" so the bad behavior is somehow our fault or something we can mitigate.
46:09 HELPPP I WAS ALSO IN SAFETY PATROL IN 5TH GRADE😭😭 THIS JUST BROUGHT BACK SO MANY MEMORIES WTF
Here before it's live on Spotify 👀
I remember going to the mall with my friend a few months ago wearing my dad’s baggy sweatshirt and flare pants that were covered by my top. This guy came up to me with his friends behind him and asked for my insta. I said no bc I have a bf. The other two friends ended up coming up to me again asking if I was serious about rejecting him. Trust 🙏 Anastasia was right about how it never matters what you wear. That shi was so scary and those dudes were maybe 25?!? I was 17.
i love it when creators i "look up to" (theyre not Gods to me but i mean, they have my dream job, theyre cooler than me) let it shine through that theyre also a little neurospicy
the man repeller fashion blog was a huge deal last time this came around- dressing in clothes that follow runway trends and are a little avant garde so that men just think you look like you’re too into yourself or they don’t understand the purpose of your style choices
As a person who has also fallen on an escalator in the exact same fashion, I feel your pain! When the shock wore off, it was about the worst pain I'd ever been in up until that point. Hope your knee is back to normal now
As someone with tics, it’s always such a warm surprise to find out that a creator I enjoy also has tics.
man repellent is just non-alt women discovering alt fashion imo
The beginning about eye contact is so true I can’t look at the person too long I have to look around them
I think what people on TikTok are calling the Male Gaze is just the collective preferences of the loudest, most obnoxious men online. Which makes perfect sense for man-repelling outfits- like, you're going to repel the kind of dude who's going to accost you in public. It's cool that people are sharing the strategies that make them comfortable!
But sometimes I feel like people are just too fast to say "men generally prefer X" and "women generally prefer Y." People's preferences vary so widely, and not in a 1 for 1 correlation to gender roles, even assuming that we're talking about straight allosexual people. I think that's important to keep in mind.
i have a hard time with this trend because i understand it 100% however the phrasing might lead and contribute to the "well what was she wearing". if something happenes when NOT wearing an outfit like this
I’m a trans guy, and I came out when I was 15. Looking like a boy was the only thing that stopped the comments from random men. I was hit on a lot by older men when I was 12-14. I didn’t wear makeup, I was clearly a minor, and I was literally with my parents for some of them. Nothing will stop some men from commenting on your body unless they see you as a boy lol
48:27 there is something to be said about the type of women gross men don’t feel comfortable harassing.
i start this by saying, there is no perfect victim. anybody can be a victim of a sex crime or harassment and every persons story is valid.
but women who are louder, and who men perceive as more confident, tend to be the ones creeps keep distance from.
if they think a woman is going to put up a fight and tell everybody who is anybody about their behaviour, they’re less likely to try something.
if you’re going to attempt something on a stranger, the one who sticks out like a sore thumb probably isn’t the one you’ll choose.
incels view a woman with a large presence as a threat, not so much as a target.
anastasia having a friend that’s a baby is so relatable because my roommate has a cat and it’s like… you’re not my cat.. but we do hang out. you’re my friend that’s a cat. and nobody has agreed w me on this
Just finished the JJGold video and now theres a new pod this is a great day
new episode sad boyz AND another jarvis & chad chad video? we're eating good today
In my experience, those outfits get you compliments from some men but it is often then polite and kind men who just wanna say something nice and leave you alone after. I appreciate them alot and they sometimes even put a big smile on my face without feeling harassed.
I relate so much to the eye contact and staring thing.
Omg the debriefing with yourself after every social situation like a team huddle is sooooo relatable lol 6:33
We're out here 😅
I'm autistic so eye contact is scary
Regarding what you said at 13:55ish, I relate so hard. Or... well, my problem is that I believe in the good in people and I sometimes waste my time trying to explain or argue things because they just seem to be miss-informed. But then sfter a while I realize that they're just purposely talking crap and then I feel stupid for wasting my time. Its especially annoying on the internet lmao.
my perhaps overly cynical take that no one asked for is that there is not really such a thing as a "man-repelling outfit" because sexual harassment isn't Really about attraction - it's about power. and imo it's very reductive to flatten "The Male Gaze" to just a list of superficial traits that men apparently do or don't find attractive, when it's much more nuanced, and much more sinister than that. i'm not going to refute anyone's personal experience, and if dressing a certain way makes you feel safer, that's wonderful! i just think it can be irresponsible to make generalizations about stuff like this, especially on tiktok where there's a lot of young people - children, even! - who will take what you say at face value.
Yeah I’m always a bit alarmed when people use Male Gaze this way. Babes that is an analysis of media and art term you can’t attach it to outfits 😭and I agree. I think a truly man repellent outfit would be…AK47s on the shoulders? Or maybe that all over body spiky thing like the one child from X men? But that’s because absolutely everyone is leaving you alone if your outfit can physically kill them lol
I thought this would be a man carrying thing collab 😭. Excited for this pod though
Yeeeeeeeeeee refreshing my UA-cam feed has blessed me
The MASH theme song actually did have lyrics, but the network made them use the instrumental version because the chorus is "Suicide is Painless"