Johnny vs. Bayonetta 3
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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It's the last Versus video of the year, and I wanted to end on an explosive note. Is Bayonetta 3 more than that, though? Hopefully.
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/ somecallmejon
#Bayonetta #SEGA #platinumgames
You can tell Lewis edited this with all those Devil May Cry references sprinkled in all over the place.
I'm convinced he did that to kill anyone who tries to play a drinking game. Probably revenge for us all calling him out on it.
*distant ding*
Farewell kidney's to those who were drinking.
_BSC makes a new God Of War commentary_
Lewis: "So did you know that in Devil May cry........."
You know it’s gonna be a good when Lewis is editing
Viola was supposed to be Bayonetta’s Nero, but I’m pretty sure Viola inherited too much of Luka’s butt monkiness
You also don't get a whole 2 games with her to cement her self in the cast like Nero, so it's a much harder sell making her the new main umbra witch compared to making Nero the new main devil hunter.
I’ve referred to Viola as Nero without any of the things that made Nero cool.
And the battle against dark Bayonetta is a far cry from Nero’s battle against Vergil.
@@fissilewhistle stop hating
Yeah she definitely did which is what put me off of the ending. In my opinion Viola didn't do anything worth inheriting the name, so I felt disappointed.
"badly paced action porno" its a line i never thought i would hear but yknow what? it fits
Johnny is a master of words. And maybe unlocking.
Going into Bayo 3 right after I played Yakuza Like a Dragon was some whiplash in experiencing how well you can pull off a torch pass, holy shit
elaborate?
@@ccshade7294
Yakuza Like a Dragon has an entire chapter thats flat out titled "passing the torch" where the new protagonist Ichiban gets into a boss fight with the old series protag, Kiryu. Its probably the best torch pass in video games
Contrasting that by immediately going into Bayo was fucking WILD to see how bad you can fuck it up
Piracy is the way.
considering that Yakuza is a story driven series with actual character development, not surprising they put way more effort into that
@@ramonandrajo6348 >One criticism of the game
>YOU HAVE TO PIRATE
To add further insult to the injury, Jeanne is only playable as a character for Witch Trials and Phenomenon Remnants but NOT as fully playable character on the main chapters, unlike the previous two games 😭 So many little things that were present before but are now being gatekept from us.
Johnny's "Get the fuck outta here" had me in stitches
This honestly makes me hyped for whenever Johnny does the Devil May Cry series.
A lot of the criticism he has for Bayonetta are things DMC, specifically 3, 4 and 5 and even DmC to an extent, do better than Bayonetta.
The stories in DMC are simple and they use that simplicity for the better. They also allow the characters to breathe. Yes they're cool and do cool things, but there's more to them than seen on the surface.
I hope you get to tackle DMC some time in the future.
The thing I love about DMC is that the story is simple, but the characters have multiple layers to them and you see how they grow as people throughout the games.
@@Tokumastu1 Dante being a great example. See how Dante acts in 3 and 4 and then look at his incarnation in 5. He's still Dante, but he's more mellow than he's ever been in that game and that quiet but still jokey attitude adds more to his character than outright takes away.
@@jaretco6423 gameplay I personally like better than Bayo. It's slower compared to Bayonetta, but its still a very deep and rewarding combat system.
I feel Johnny will definitely enjoy the combat of the DMC series. Specifically 3, 4 and 5.
@@jaretco6423 3 is a good place to start. Both canonically, since it takes place before 1 and it's where the series found its footing, both story and character wise as well as gameplay.
@@jaretco6423 Given his taste in characters I think he'd enjoy the stories and the character progression throughout the series.
I feel like Bayonetta 3's story is Kamiya trying to make his own version of Devil May Cry 5's story without the buildup and character development + depth of DMC5's story
There's no depth to any of the Devil May Cry games story. Neither Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden for that matter. These games never had any deep narrative to them. They always had that entertaining anime style of story telling. The stories are serviceable, but not meant to be taken seriously. They're so over the top and fun.
On a personal note, I think Devil May Cry V have the worst story in the franchise, as it felt a bit flat and boring compared to the others in the franchise. Even worse than Ninja Theory's developed DMC.
@@ryanlusaka this is true...dmcv had great visuals and the combat was splendid. but had boring level design, the story was cringe.
@@ryanlusaka no way dmc5 has a worse story than 2 or 4
At least we are all civilized gentlemen and can agree DMC3 had the best story of the series.
@@ryanlusaka actually DMC does have very subtle depth to it. Especially when it comes to Dante and Vergil themselves. Its just most people see it as the "Wacky wahoo pizza man game" which isnt a bad thing because it is very charming as well as badass while also being goofy. There are themes of legacy scattered from DMC3 onward which works because of how Dante and Vergil are half-breeds and there are antithesis towards each other with being human and demon which is something media doesnt really dive into as much as I thought it would when it comes to legacy.
The problem with umbran climax wasn't that it was overpowered. The problem was that to compensate for that power, most of your other abilities were made weaker. Witch time in Bayonetta 2 was made shorter compared to Bayonetta 1, especially against bigger or enraged enemies, and if an enemy was big and enraged, you would get practically zero witch time. On top of this, enemies were made more resistant to being staggered, juggled, or thrown around than in the first game unless you're in witch time or using umbran climax. Witch time making enemies more susceptible to staggers was technically in the first game, but it wasn't nearly as prevalent as it is in 2.
Magic abilities also suffered. Torture attacks were worthless in 2 because using them meant not being able to use umbran climax. The only time torture attacks were worth using was against the sloth enemy, AKA the worst enemy type in Bayonetta 2. Instant wicked weaves were also made worthless because, again, using them meant not having magic for umbran climax. In fact, all wicked weaves in Bayonetta 2 deal significantly less damage than in Bayonetta 1 because if they didn't, umbran climax would be outright broken instead of just being a crutch you all but have to rely on. Lastly, Bayonetta 2 is much more stingy with magic than its predecessor. Taunting enemies gives half or less magic than it did before. Dodging enemy attacks no longer gives magic at all, and attacking enemies doesn't give as much magic either. Again, these changes were made because without them, umbran climax would be even more broken than it already is.
All these changes, combined with more aggressive enemies that can break your combos much more often than in Bayonetta 1, and sometimes outright dodge THROUGH your attacks and wicked weaves, result in a game where you have to play reactively and defensively, as opposed to Bayonetta 1 where aggressive and proactive play was encouraged. And all of this is because of umbran climax.
Him giving shit to the Demon Slave system but talking about Umbran Climax positively got to me.
Like it was visually cool, but it had no substance to it and actively hurt the game by how much weaker Bayonetta was made to make Umbran Climax feel powerful.
The Demon Slave system actually compliments the core mechanics and encourages mixing it in with Bayonetta's normal combat, instead of hurting the core mechanics by making everything else that used magic redundant.
@@Robbie_Haruna Glad I'm also not alone in that thought.
With all due respect to Johnny, I genuinely couldn't disagree more with his assertion on that mechanic or the conclusion of Bayonetta 2 in particular being the better product in comparison to 3.
While Bayonetta 3 balance wise isn't entirely without issues, the changes it actually fixed compared to it's predecessor adds up a lot and at the very least enemies actually having more knockback/stagger properties outside of WT + WT lasting long enough to get in more combos makes revisiting Bayo 3 much more enticing. Demon Slave adds a lot more to the core combat than it takes away, which is the exact opposite of what I'd say for Umbran Climax.
In all honesty whenever I see Bayo 2 lapped up with 1 in mechanically polish and depth, I can't help by side-eye especially when it comes to criticisms towards Bayo 3's approach.
@@FullmetalX4 So, which is the best of the Trilogy?
Just wanna know
@@ethejumper6568 im late to this but that really depends on you if your looking for a challenge b1 is your go too if flashy stylish battles are what your looking for then b3 is ya girl and if you want a mix of both with a somewhat decent plotline then b2 is great pick up
I don't really mind Bayo and Luka getting together, but is it just me or was he a lot more handsome in 1&2 and looks kinda like a melting Adrien Brody in this one
Luka in 2 was absolutely the ugliest lol
Mans was kinda hot in 1.
It was already in the anime
same as tbh think the story's problem is it feels like a lot of context is missing like how the 3 one is a grown up cereza(that i could see being more earnest if still playful with him/even then could see the witch being a trio with luka and jeanne as she was playfully teasing him in the first 2 games moreso to make up the fact she'd outlive him with jeanne being the only one that'd grow to death with her.) or angels not appearing much/really wish rodin got involved with how awesome he was in 2(also maybe instead of killing them each level had the alternate bayo's turn to weapons to help instead/now that i do think of it we never see an alternate balder or rodin.)
alongside how in 2 luka was barely there being too comedic when he could've been helping out that if anything him/jeanne(who should've traveled alongside viola instead of unleashing the villain with a pointless death.) being at bayo's side as they die(or diving in to save them with how it somewhat muddles 2 being about saving from that if luka could easily jump into it.) would've been a better end instead of being such a downer end that wasn't earned making me want bayonetta and luka revived next game focusing on viola in spinoff's instead
The worst part about Jeanne isn't how bad she got done in the story. It's that she is only playable in side missions.
I’m so excited for you to start the Zero series. Your Mega Man reviews are some of my favorites
>Zero series
When will he do Gunvolt?
@@Code7Unltd: I’m waiting for Gunvolt as well, I’m always having fun with that game.
Better hope he uses the zerozx or ds collection cause well.... extra lives are awful
Me too, I've been waiting so long for it. I hope he goes ahead and covers the ZX games while he's at it. Would make sense seeing as they're all on the same collection together.
Let's remember this game started development around 7 years ago, when the multiverse theme was not as overused as it is now
Plus, Bayo's been doing bonkers storytelling from Day 1, so Bayo 3's story isn't that far off from the norm.
It's amazing to hear a different side of people talking about the series after only hearing Woolie, Pat, and Suzi talk about it. The idea that some of the things didn't get to Johnny is surprising, when it sounded like everybody I follow had the same issues.
Johnny: "dont spend $60 bucks on this, wait for a sale"
Nintendo: "we dont do that here"
Still can't believe that, the story was messy (though nobody ever played it for that,) but this is a damn good hack and slash with a pretty solid amount of content too. Frankly it was completely worth full price.
@@Robbie_Harunabut why would you pay for 3 over bayonetta 1&2 though
@thetrophygamer3606 Because you already have them?
Like nobody's jumping in at entry 3 when all the games are easily obtainable.
@@Robbie_Haruna but John’s point is for someone who doesn’t have any so why would you pick 3 over 1 or 2. Especially when they are cheaper
@thetrophygamer3606 No, it's saying the game isn't worth full price.
That's why the point sticks out as a particularly bad take.
I'm not a coffee guy, but waking up to a new Johnny video ain't half bad!
i'm a tea guy
@@jonathanwilson7949 tea is pretty based
I prefer soda 🥤
Even if Bayonetta was never necessarily a narrative driven series, it's kind of a shame that the story here seems so superficial and undercooked
Doubly so when you consider the games that inspired Bayo (Devil May Cry) actually manage to balance compelling characters and presentation with stories that similarly don't take themselves super seriously but still feel complete
never thought I'd see someone say devil may cry has a compelling story and characters
@theredjoka644 DMC won't win any awards in the writing department but the characters and their on-screen dynamic with each other is very entertaining, especially in 5 with how they redid Nero and how he plays off of both Nico and V
Devil May Cry’s Stories are gross
@@DIEFORME173 stop hating
@@ReplyIfImRight not hating if it’s the truth
If they wanted to turn Viola into the main character for future games then they should have had HER do most of the interaction with alternate universe Bayonettas.
Ok, I gotta say this. The moment he brought up MegaMan, I was silently pleading for him to say the Zero Series. It is my favorite series in the franchise. I'm super excited for this
I wonder if he's gonna bring up the combo/hit priority system in those reviews, especially in 3.
I felt the same about the story and Viola. The gameplay was definitely the highlight (with Bayonetta that is.) I HIGHLY reccomend Astral Chain. It's really fun and the story although somewhat predictable, is held up with it's world building. It became my favorite games I played back in 2021 and I hope that sequel rumor is true.
Astral chain has excellent gameplay but the writing is awful
I like Astral chin more then any Bayonetta.
@@doomdimensiondweller5627 I agree
@@novustalks7525 Eh, it's not awful. Just somewhat generic imo. The worldbuilding is great tho.
@@ultimax10doesgaming48 nah its awful. Nothing makes sense or is explained
I may be the only one but I always thought that Bayo ending up with Luka made sense. Jeanne always felt like Bayonetta's Vergil, just an archenemy that the main character had a strong connection with.
I agree with everything else being extremely bad and/or mediocre, but I thought the Luka stuff made sense, even if it wasn't developed in a good way.
Oh thank god, Johnny agrees about the story. In terms of a “Passing the torch” story, DMC does it SO much better. It’s genuinely great, even if I think DMC4 tends to plod a bit
At least for DMC4 we know that it was rushed that's why half of the game reuse level layout but in reverse for Dante
@@kratosgow342 I mean, rushed or not I judge a game based on what we get but we also have 5 as a payoff so here’s hoping Bayo gets her DMC5
Speaking of DMC. When the third game in the DMC series changed the main character's voice actor, they allowed this different take on the protagonist to have a different voice instead of doing an awful impression of the original voice. Sad that Bayonetta couldn't do the same.
@@skunthundler Jennifer Hale’s Bayonetta is fine, don’t be such a drama queen.
@@fissilewhistle She can barely do an English accent lmao, it borders on comedy.
"Wait for a price drop"
Is a Nintendo game, that means never
ehhhh, bayonetta and luka were always a thing if ya pay attention. the plot of the whole first game is about them raising a child together. however, their actual dynamic shifted 180 to a degree i thought was weird. like now all of a sudden luka is the ambivalent edgy mysterious badass and bayonetta is the hopeless romantic reverently chasing him? when did that happen? its just so unearned
I have not had this many mixed feelings with a game in a long time.
KH3?
@@sean.anthony6044 Oh please, that game blew my expectations out of the water. I have no issues with the wait, especially after the DLC. This game just felt aimless
Seeing this review just makes me want a Devil May Cry marathon even more.
I’d love to see a devil my cry marathon
He said he'd do one in the update he made about a year ago. Should be after Mega Man and a Mortal Kombat retrospective.
@@antelasic1950 don’t forget final fantasy VIII and IX
Viola seems to be the Dante from the DMC reboot game LOL. Youll have no idea how fast theyll be back with Bayonetta as the MC come Bayonetta 5
Wait, why Bayonetta 5? Are you implying Vi is headlining Bayonetta 4?
I think I like Bayonetta 2 a bit more but I loved Bayonetta 3. One of my favorite games of this year.
Also DEFINITELY play Astral Chain. That game is masterful.
I second Johnny playing Astral Chain for the channel. I played through the game myself earlier this year and had a blast. Here’s hoping those rumors about a possible sequel are true.
Yeah, I just started Bayo 3 myself, and I feel confident in saying that Bayo 2 is the better game for two reasons; Amiibo support and compact levels that don't overstay their welcome.
Agreed. Heck, I remember when Bayo 3's trailer first aired, people thought it was Astral Chain 2... and I mean that as a COMPLIMENT!
Agreed, and also I didn't know that you know about SomeCallMeJohnny.
Reply 5
I feel like they tried a little too hard on this game, which took away from some parts as a result. Case in point, trying to make things flashier and better gameplay, but took away from the narrative.
That delay ended up leading to some bad choices basically...
I absolutely agree. The gameplay is fantastic but the story is so bad. It just doesn’t make sense for Bayonetta to die.
13:26 Yes, it's a great game. Underrated as hell in my opinion. The combat takes a bit to get used to, but once you get it down it's a good time.
Not gonna lie I called Sigurd being singularity as soon as he was mentioned
And the game pretty poorly communicates that Singularity _replaced_ the Sigurd Jeanne finds, and that he wasn't actually evil.
That Sigurd was made the brain of the Alphaverse homunculus.
@@LS95774 must've been very poor i didn't notice that at all
@@eldragon5247 there's one scene as soon as they enter the Alphaverse after you play as Madama, where Viola looks up at a Sigurd corpse attached to the homonculi and Bayo says "We've been had"
THAT'S apparently the one from Bayo's universe that was taken and replaced by Singularity, who is on the other side of the portal and killing Jeanne
Bayo and Luka were meant to end up together from the start, but they didnt get the proper development they were supposed to get. Ideally it should have happened in this game, but it didnt.
I had to do a bunch of research after beating this game just to understand what the hell was going on. The two main Bayos who join you at the end are in fact two separate entities from the two previous games and Bayo 3 is in fact Cereza from the first game who's holding the cat doll...WHICH is Violas in this game. So it kinda all connects. I'm not sure if this is all completely true, but it does make you think if they had planned this out in advance.
Gonna be honest: this was easily the most disappointing game of the year for me. It’s still a fun time, but after five years of waiting, it’s shocking how many things ended up being a downgrade compared to 1 and 2. The core combat is still a blast, but every other aspect aside from music is inferior to past titles. It’s very obvious how many problems it had during its development. And that’s not even getting into the disaster-piece of a story that does every character a major disservice.
I had a fun time; I can’t deny that. I just don’t see myself going back to it and replaying it a dozen times like I did the other games. And that sucks…
I gotta say your comment is a big contradiction, so was Johnny's video. I'm hearing it was a big disappointment and the least liked Bayonetta but at the same time you guys are talking about how much fun and exciting ride it was. Its like say that was the most delicious but disgusting meal I've ever tasted.
@@mr_m4613 that's not a contradiction tho. Both this comment and Johnny are saying that even though they still enjoyed the game, they felt it could've been better and that it doesn't reach the level of the 1st and 2nd games. So it's a good time, but a dissapointing game because it isn't as good as it could've been/because it doesn't fix any issue from before or adds new ones that take from the experience.
Good games can still leave you dissapointed.
2 is terrible
@@tuby0299 i don't see how its a dissapiontnent if you enjoyed the game. Bayonetta 3 fixes all the improvements that 1 and 2 needed and got rid of all the fluff added a skill tree and overall expanded the games engagement. 3 basically an open world Bayonetta game. It also got rid of all the fluff 1 had and added the meat that 2 was lacking. Dissapointed and enjoyed shouldn't even be in the same discussion lol
@@mr_m4613 well despite what you say, Johnny said the he enjoyed 1 and 2 more despite having fun with 3. It's not uncommon to be enjoying a game but having a feeling that things could be better, having a certain aspect ruin the experience, or simply that you had high expectations/hopes that left you feeling down after playing, that's how you can be dissapointed despite having a good time.
I've had a similar situation with DMC 4, where I ended up putting the game down after a bit because the level design constantly annoyed me throught my playthrough, despite having fun with the combat system and boss fights.
In the end it's all up to personal taste, but my main point is that this isn't a contradiction because dissapointed and enjoy are not opposites, and like I said before, you can be dissapointed by something you consider good
Bayo being bi is the biggest amount of mass headcanon ive ever seen.
People do this shit all the time. Are teo people of the same gender friends? Well, they must be gay you can't be close to your friends without it being gay.
Bayonetta and Jeanne can't just be friends because they care about each other, so they have to be gay.
@@stempest7218 That's the case with all of shipping, not just gay, and it's typically strongest when two characters have better chemistry than their designated love interests which is the case here. Even from a dramatic standpoint, Jeanne makes more sense than Luka considering she was a big part of the story in the first game and the second game was centered around rescuing her. Luka has been nothing but the comic relief with occasional moments of ship tease that also felt like jokes more than anything.
Bayo and Jeanne’s relationship with one another is not romantic, but familial. There are more incentives to plunge into hell to save someone and more means of affection that aren’t romantic. Jeanne and Bayo are the last remaining Umbra Witches in existence. Their bond and their desire to keep each other safe is for the sake of preserving their heritage; so that their culture won’t completely die. And Jeanne kinda spells it out with no in-between line reading when she refers to Bayo as her “Sister”.
@ManOutofTime913 I'm not saying it only happens with gay shipd. It's just much more prevalent with gay ships.
But it does bother me just as much when people act like men and women can't be friends or people act like someone of the opposite sex they had had one line dialogue with should marry. I just hate shippers in general.
Also you completely missing my original point. Bayonetta and Jeanne were p ly shown as friends. Their good chemistry was still just friendship. I mean no shit Bayonetta originally got on better with Jeanne she knew her a lot longer than Luca. As for Bayonettas chemistry with Luca was always implied to be romantic with her constantly flirting with luca.
Bayonetta and Jeanne are just friends and shippers who can never just accept friends are friends headcannoned them to be a couple and now they are pissy thier made up fanfic isn't canon.
Also the amount of ships people puzh gay or straight were people make up or exaggerate characters chemistry or even worse ignore the horrible implications of the relationship or things one of the characters did to each other is staggering.
Also love interests can be side characters they don't have to be main characters or characters who the plot revolves around. It can just be a side character who occasionally appears and gets along with main character. Also luca had a pretty big role in the first game with him learning to get over his father's death.
Only losers ship
Just letting you know Johnny that Hideki Kamiya does plan on making more Bayonetta games (since apparently 4 and 5 are already in the works) as well as spinoffs (Bayonetta Origins for ex) so there is hope that they will try to improve the story aspects of this series.
I feel like that would require Kamiya to be hands-off the project, because historically he's not exactly got a good track record for telling good stories. Definitely a spectacle dev.
Platinum original stories have never and will never be good tho lol
Closest they've got to inoffensive is W101
@@LS95774 I feel like Astral Chain was a good story.
@@ranonadg Well we're just gonna have to wait and see how much involvement he has in the story.
@@marshallseldon4200 it was an EVA clone with idiots for protagonists, and a villain who villains for no reason other than to distract you from the REAL villain who was obviously evil and manipulating your sibling the entire game
Johnny coming through with the late Christmas gift this year!! Probably my favorite present! :)
Happy new year, John! Thanks for being a consistent presence on in my YT subs for about 10 years now!
I feel like the game's camera and the enemy design is what really brings down Viola's combat style. Most of the time its pulled waaaaay far back to help keep an eye on the larger enemies and allow for the kaiju battles. The problem is for parry style combat you need to keep track of the little tells and details in character movement to react properly. So you have really jello wobbly looking enemies that are hard to read with a camera pulled way back making parry timing on reaction very difficult. Its also not helped by the fact that Viola gets very little play time compared to Bayonetta's more fluid combat making it feel herky jerky unless you basically put in time to practice which doesn't feel rewarding because again she isn't playable for most of the game.
Story wise the game feels so rushed and the repetitive nature of go to world, see new bayonetta, see her get killed, weapon get, repeat really hurts this trying to be Bayo's final adventure. Its like it wants to be a huge epic but the build up is poor and falls flat at the finish line. Like the final battle tries to make the big bad feel like he is a threat in the worse way possible by getting punched to the moon, beat up by the bayonetta army, punched back into the planet, stabbed by viola, fought by a team up of bayo 1,2 and 3, they then fusion dance into 1 and that still doesn't beat him. At that point what does kill him is a complete anti climax because hitting him with ALL THE BAYONETTAS isn't enough to kill him so when he does die it feels like a cop out.
The fact that Viola never gets a round on the final boss is also a huge mistep. This game keeps on getting compared to DMC4 for good reason and one of the things they got right was having Nero have half the journey dedicated to him and let him be the one to beat the big bad in the end. Viola gets 3 stages and most of her boss fights are against werewolf Luka and she mainly fails for comedy in most of her story bits and pretty much just gets dropped during the finale where where she jobs to the big bad in an unplayable cutscene. After that suddenly Dark Eve boss fight and she is the new Bayonetta. This would be like if Nero only got to fight the big demons during the first half but never got to have his levels in the finale and Dante solved everything but Dante still let him keep the Yamato at the end.
Even ignoring DMC(which I haven't played them, maybe I should cause the story and repetitive music killed my attempts to play bayo 2), Halo 2 a game with one of the most infamous developments in the game industry, managed to have a good balance of it's protags despite it being Arbiter's story.
I honestly would've been fine with Bayonetta ending up with either Jaune ore Luka, she has close friendships and a personal respect for both of them with both of them. My problem is, if the writers were going to put Bayonetta together with anyone, they should've spent more time developing the romance. Through the whole first 2 games, I didn't get the feeling that Bayonetta was into anyone, so much as it felt like she was developing a found-family.
Here's the thing, they did spend time developing the romance. With Jeanne. The entirety of Bayonetta 2 gave me MAJOR lesbian vibes as someone who is one myself. It was literally their free romance option if they ever wanted to give Bayonetta a partner and they went with the character they explicitly built her to have ZERO romantic chemistry with. Not just that, but they easily could have kept Bayonetta 1 + 2 in the same timeline if they did that I think.
@@nikkimvee4710 I respectfully disagree. In all fairness, I am neither female nor homosexual, so I don't think I'm qualified to say whether or not 2 female characters are into each other.
Personally, I didn't get any romantic hints from Bayonetta and Jaune in B2. Granted, it's a textbook Orphic rescue story, but it looked more like a blood sister trying to save the one person in the world who could honestly understand how she feels. Bayonetta and Jaune are displaced by time, in a world entirely different from the world they grew up in where their entire culture is gone. Bayonetta would've save Jaune regardless what her personal feelings were.
On a separate note, I'm honestly curious, how do you tell the different between true "lesbian vibes" and a healthy platonic friendship? I'm sorry if this comes off as offensive, but I'm asking as someone on the asexual spectrum (demisexual to be exact).
Also, Bayo 3 is SUPERW@KE too.
@@nikkimvee4710 Hard disagree on that Lesbian vibe it almost feel like people forget that females can have a healthy platonic relationship without it being romance... she rescued her best friend cause she cares for those around her.
@@doniarts To be fair, there is a massive grey area between romance and healthy platonic relationships. In both cases the people involved are mutually respectful, supportive, and affectionate. Unless their orientation is specifically hinted or their feelings are directly addressed, the relationship can justifiably be interpreted either way. Especially since a lot of couples begin as healthy platonic friends, even more so for people on the homosexual or asexual spectrums.
Another reason people ship platonic same-sex friends is because those friendships are often more fleshed out than the actual romance. There's something of a literary blind-spot where people immediately assume the leading man and leading lady end up together. So, a lot of main couples end up dreadfully bland and underdeveloped because the writer doesn't spend the necessary time convincing the reader that these two characters actually love each other before the big kiss. Conversely, the best friend characters in these situations seem more appealing from a romantic sense. Because the narrative handily displays the bond between these characters, and from the readers perspective, that close bond could translate to a healthy relationship.
Bayonetta x Luka is such a victim of this, which is why people gravitate Bayonetta x Jaune so much.
I am very excited that the zero series is next because I've played those games to death. And if you have time left I want to recommend the azure striker gunvolt series. Which is basically a spiritual successor to the zero series, especially gunvolt 3 which has become one of my new favorite games alongside zero 3. All of these games are very short both zero and gun volt so maybe you could also look at gun volt after the zero series.
Arc chain mechanic is a dream come true to me. I LOVE arc chain so much.
Funny how gunvolt 3 and Bayonetta 3 sorta mirror each other. They both did a mantle pass to less than desirable results.
@@bearerofbadnews1375
The difference is, I actually like Kirin.
@@oguzhangungor9117 and you could make an argument that Copen got treated better than Jeanne. It’s left in the air if he’s alive or not, but I’ll take that than certain death.
I'd say on a point on the story, I think the plots of 1 and 2 are actually really good, especially as a pair (would be a shame if they retconed that and had them be in seperate universes).
Sure the focus can seem to just be Bayo being cool, but there's a lot of aditional stuff added that fleshes everything out. Like 1's battle theme sung in the 3rd person being about the mystery of Bayonetta and her desteny, the sadness and loneliness that she hides under her cheery exterior. Compared to 2's battle theme which is in the 1st person and just ozes confidence and strength, showing that now she's found herself and companions her happiness is genuine.
And then there's Balder (my beloved) who's characterisation of a heartless monster to a tragic hero is really moving.
Bayonetta 3 is mostly just spectical, an excuse to visit locations and use new demons, before rocks fall and everyone dies. So I wouldn't say it's deminishing returns, moreso 3 just has style but no substance, pretending to be like the first 2
I don't understand the comment "wait for a price drop" for Nintendo games, that's likely not gonna happen in a long time, if ever.
"You may as well buy them new!"
~ Scott the woz
and if it does happen they only drop by what $3 at best
You'd think someone who has been gaming for so long would've learned that by now; the amount of time wasted, say maybe a year, by waiting for what, a $10 drop, is hardly worthwhile.
Prices on physical Nintendo games in the UK are often a chunk lower than the standard retail price for them. The retail price is £50 (pounds for those who don't know what the £ sign is) for first party Nintendo games, but most sites sell them at £40 instead, one place even as low as £35 BEFORE they release. So it makes absolutely no sense for me to go digital when I can get three physical copies of games for a little bit more than the price of two digital versions of the same games. And if I've had enough of the game, I'll just sell it on, like I did with Skyward Sword HD, which cost me just £1 in the end. Something I can't do with digital games.
“Always wanted to visit Germany’
*zooms in on Belgium’s flag*
Of course I’m a Belgian watching this video from Germany currently to make the joke go full circle.
Did anyone else feel like the characters were a bit.....Watered down in this game? Not say they were out of character, but Bayonetta, Enzo and Rodin felt a little "off" and weirdly toned down.
I don't consider this game my least favorite as I really like the demon summoning stuff and the constant instant kill stuff of Bayo 1 definitely wasn't great, but I think this game definitely feels the least "cooked". Like Bayo 1 and 2 felt like games that had their visions realized. Bayo 3 feels like a game that got kneecapped by *something*. Be it the hardware, a changing scope, or behind-the-scenes stuff (and from what I hear, all three might be true), Bayo 3 DEFINITELY has the feeling of something that wanted to try something more ambitious but had to dial it back/cut things out at a late stage.
Whatever form Bayo 4 takes needs to be something absolutely doable on whatever hardware it ends up on. Because 3, for as much as I like it, absolutely feels like something that had all ambitions yanked from it.
Well with any luck Bayo 4 won't have its primary director leave halfway through, which is probably a large part of change in direction and fumbled ambitions.
Though honestly in dropping the Open world aspect it may have been partially a blessing in disguise, because open world is pretty much always a terrible mix for these kinds of games. It just adds an assload of bloat.
My headcanon is that Hideki Kamiya is that guy from Big Lebowski that pulls a gun during an argument over the rules of bowling. It makes me giggle every time I think of it.
Honestly this game seems confused AF on the story front. Maybe they did a line in the writer's room and then watched the MCU while blitzed and then wrote down whatever it was that came to mind, because yikes, you know it's bad when the game that actually _tries_ with it's story ends up having the worst one of the trinity.
The reason why Bayo reminds people of little Cereza is because it is Little Cereza grown up.
Mostly agree. I will say demon slave becomes far better when you realize you can tap the button to keep moving while they attack. I have no issue with a luka romance myself, I don't recall Jeanne and Bayo ever being romantic with eachother, but Luka has basically 0 screen time in this game to build up that romance.
The game is focused on its multiverse over its characters while wanting to be an emotional sendoff.
But it spends more time on the multiverse hurting its cast and story but also has the most by the numbers, uninspired and repetitive multiverse it could be. It felt less like a multiverse and more like Bayonetta world tour, though admittedly. There being an entirely French dimension is funny.
I don’t mind the Bayo/Luka is a thing. Like you said; there was flirting from BOTH ends
I think bayo 2 was awesome this felt like they did not know how to end the series. And we are getting a bayo 4 apprently i am worried about a fourth one
The most I can say about Bayonetta 3 is that it gave us the all time classic quote of Castle Super Beast; The 9/11 for Gays
This seems as good an opportunity as any to put this in writing. Bayonetta 3 is NOT a bad game. The gameplay is as solid as we've come to expect by this point, and the new mechanics introduced are well-implemented and really fun. That said, the game's ending is what killed any inclination I may have had to replay it (SPOILERS AHEAD).
Mind you, this isn't about the issues I've heard people had with the shipping direction the writers went for. That was never an issue for me. My issue is with how they axed 80% of the series main cast including the title character. The whole thing just left a bad taste in my mouth. As I was watching the ending unfold onscreen, I admit, I wasn't sure what to think. But the more I thought about it after the fact, the more I came to realize that NO, this was NOT how one of these games should have ended. These characters deserved better. I get that they went for the whole passing-of-the-torch angle, but it just didn't do it for me, especially since we've had less than one game to get fully acquainted with the recipient of said torch. See, one thing I loved about the endings of B1 and B2 is that, in execution, there was always this potent feeling of triumph in how they were presented. In comparison, B3's ending is a downer, all told. I play these games for fun. Knowing how this one ends fundamentally undermines that for me.
Yeah. That basically sums up my thoughts on the ending.
It is bad. The gameplay is sluggish, the camera angle is a nuisance. Jeanne and Viola are just annoying to play as. Viola should just have never existed in the first place
@@novustalks7525 Why are you going trough every comment saying that it was a good game telling them it wasn't? that seems very pathetic and obsessive.
He did not enjoy the game, therefore no one else is allowed to either.
@@oscarzxn4067 He's a troll probably.
Saying the gameplay is sluggish is actually objectively incorrect and it's not even funny lmao
I personally have no strong feelings about the ships in this series, so I felt a bit miffed when many were angry about Bayo and Luka being an item when neither his or Jeanne’s relationship with Bayo were developed for me to feel strongly on which ship got the shaft. I felt frustrated with Viola’s parry mechanic and her overall slow combat. The performance of the game did not help coming from 1080p 60 FPS for the first two on Switch to this one with blurry visuals and inconsistent frame rates. This game was frustrating because it had everything to be the best in the trilogy.
While I can't say I agree with you on the story part (Though I admit I thought it was a mess, had to take a break at a point since it felt like it was meandering), Singularity I agree is a terrible villain. It's strange how after Baldir this series really can't do good villains right, and even then he isn't "technically" one as we find out in 2. It's more like what the villains DO in the story is supposed to compensate for personality and motivation, but that only goes so far, y'know?
And that only REALLY works for a story like The Lord of the Rings with antagonists like Sauron and Saruman. A stylish in-your-face character action game works best when the adversaries you're setting yourself to stylishly tearing down are properly built up. You know. So there's SOMETHING to work toward tearing down.
Even the first game's antagonist sort of just dumps everything he is and wants to do on you all in one big heap right before you fight him, leaving the overall plot and mystery of the Vigrid adventure to carry the weight for most of the story's runtime. It's not particularly great.
Astral Chain is great. Would love to see you play it and share your thoughts
I thought it was awesome that Luka finally got together with bayonetta. It felt rewarding after all the teasing.
Agreed but I feel like they handled it badly. It does not feel genuine with all the lukas in one and viola's parents GAH....its such a mess. I feel like we missed some off screen romance or something.
Bayo 3's over ambitions were its downfall imo. I think they should have focused a lot more in the recurring characters relationships instead of bringing the undercooked Viola. Would have made the finale of luka with bayo much more impactful and heartbreaking. And jeanne been pushed aside like that only makes viola's inclusion sting a lot more.
bayonetta from 2 is my favourite looking bayonetta, the clean blue and black just is so cool
It's been 4 months and I'm still waiting for him to talk about the gameplay
0:38 Johnny says he always wanted to visit Germany, shows the Belgium flag 🧐
I really should get back to finishing Bayonetta 1! I still haven’t finished it
I beat the first Bayonetta many years ago, but I don't remember it being a positive experience - Game was kicking my ass so I lowered the difficulty, but then it became way too easy (easier than DMC4 or V on Human, even, and I beat both of those on Devil Hunter) and combos became automated so I wasn't even in full control of what I wanted to do, and the overabundance of QTEs not only made the game dated, but they also sucked.
Bottom line is, I still want to try out Bayo 2 at some point, but I really do hope it's a more balanced title.
@@marcellosilva9286 Trust me, Bayo 2 is the most balanced of the trilogy...assuming you have Amiibo to help you rake in money to buy the essential upgrades.
This probably has my favorite set of Weapons in any of the games.
5:08 I don’t know why, but “Christmas Creature” worked so well for me.
I agree. Viola was not fun to play.
Storywise, I found it pretty enjoyable. Not good, especially after figuring out the twist easily, but I had fun. The first final boss, Singularity Definition, definitely went on for too long, but despite playing as Viola, I found the last battle against Dark Eve to be enjoyable. Especially since you learn that she’s basically been watching from afar the whole time since she was the one who controlled Kraken, an early game boss that randomly showed up. While I found myself using some of the weapons out of necessity, I actually found myself playing with all of them to be fun. I actually got to use the Rodin as a meaningful weapon instead of the “last unlock.” Cassiopeia was another one I had fun with. And Labolas’ weapon was a good as well. Yo-yo was fun starting off as well.
I will admit that I did enjoy the ending just because of how unpredictable it was.
One more thing, I should mention that I am excited about Bayonetta Origins. Especially after that book gave us a sample.
Also, Bayo 3 is SUPERW@KE too.
there are two accessories to mitigate two of your issues, one that prevents the demons from going berserk, and one that makes them opporate on their own when summoened so its like having a party member controled by AI so you can still play as bayonetta
The one for letting the demons do their own thing was so much fun to use ngl
Also actually gave a use to all their more complex moves you can unlock, cause I sure as heck can't rememeber the controls for them on the fly
automated summons kinda suck, you can already just weave in combos with your summons by using long strings or special moves.
Does the one that has them act on their own still require you to hold the button down? Do they still go away as soon as you dodge? Those aspects were more annoying to me than the actual controlling of them.
Does he go into it? Nope! If its something that irks him personally he will dock points for it
@@streamofthesky Yes, and...yes. sadly.
For me, what makes the narrative so frustrating is that nothing ends up happening the whole game then Chapters 13 and 14 hit and it takes itself way too seriously. And Viola doesn't just not have an impact, the game actively beats her down and makes her look like a fool with not a scrap of development so when the game ends and Bayo says, "You've grown so much" I was like, 'No she hasn't. When did that happen?'. And, maybe hot take, but I don't think even Jeanne would've made that ending okay. There's no romance plot until Bayo and Luka kiss and it's so terribly written that subbing in Jeanne still wouldn't have made it good.
My issues all pin down to one major point: Bayonetta 3 wants a gripping ending with emotional stakes and a new beginning but will absolutely not work for that ending for a single moment and so everything ends up jarring and forced. This is even more frustrating because it absolutely has the time and refuses to use it, yet expects me to cry on command.
Love the combat and the fanservice is on point, but Bayo 2 remains queen. I only rank it above 1 because 3 feels so much more fluid and I actually like the non-Gommorah demon sequences but loathe the motorbike and missile from 1.
I could tell this was edited by Lweis just by the DMC 4 clips. XD
Happy New Year, everyone!
This is one of those games that I think Nintendo *should've* interfered more during its production because it's clear that even they were getting impatient with what Platinum was doing during 3's long, protracted development. They were patient and largely hands-off for this long because they trusted in them enough after W101, Bayo 2 and Astral Chain to put out a quality product, but there has to be a breaking point somewhere and this should've been it. Have them involved more during the design process, and you'd have a significantly tighter, more focused game.
Considering that Nintendo now solely owns the Astral Chain IP, any sequels made with Platinum would have to go through them first and they would have the final say on things during development. Which honestly would make it less like Bayo 3 and more akin to Nier Automata ironically enough since AC's director was the co-lead designer for that game.
As much as Nintendo didn't want to impede on Kamiya's and the rest of the team's vision for this game, it was pretty clear from the final product that they should've stepped in much sooner.
Yeah... Nintendo is treating Platinum like Sony did Kojima with death Stranding and we all know how divised Death Stranding was to the point where I start to question if the reason Metal Gear games were as good as they were was because Konami constantly trying to keep Kojima in check. And this is coming from someone who loves Death Stranding.
@@diegomedina9637 The difference though is that Nintendo merely expected a finished game with Bayo 3 and were largely hands-off during its development, meaning they weren't aware of most of the issues happening during development (which is why I thought Nintendo should've stepped in sooner, not all executive meddling is a bad thing).
Sony on the other hand did everything to please Kojima, providing him with all of the tech and money to make Death Stranding with complete creative control. They knew exactly the kind of game that he was going to make and were willing to please him as much as possible up until he was finished with it.
Thank you for another wonderful year of cozy content, Johnny. I hope you had a nice 2022 and that your 2023 is absolutely great for you.
Commenting from the middle of this video Johnny and I can confirm that Astral Chain is a VERY good game. Personally, I'd replay it any day over bayo 3, but thats moreso to do with how completely fresh astral felt. I still appreciate videos on Bayo 3 because as a long running fan of this franchise I wanna see how other people perceive this really strange entry in the franchise.
i just finish playing bayonetta 1 and 2, can't wait for the next one.
3 is a disappointment
Man, Bayonetta 3 seems to be one of the most divisive games drawing attention this year. I'm not a Bayo fan myself (no particular reason, I've just never played any of the games) but this is the 3rd review I've watched of the game from a content creator whose work I follow and watch regularly and so many of the points made were similar to the others I've heard, but just as many were vastly different. I don't know if I can think of a game offhand that's garnered such widely differing opinions on it. Regardless Johnny, this was still a damn good watch as always. And I'm really looking forward to seeing you cover the Megaman Zero games next year.
Hope you all enjoyed the holidays!
Bayonetta 3 is the "Spider-Man 3" in the series to me. Ambitious in scale and crammed full of content, falls flat on it's face in country fresh manure in terms of execution. Have to spend more time fighting the camera than the enemies, especially when the enemies are large and you have to use the just as large "Infernal Summon" to deal major damage to them. Not a fan of playing "Scrappy's" (sorry Viola's) levels, just want to get through them and back to Bayonetta's. Jeanne's levels are a nice little diversion where I don't have to fight the camera so that's a plus. I don't think this is a game that I will replay as often as the prior installments and gives caution to future installments (sequel and prequel Cereza games).
Yup. Pretty much sums up how i feel about Bayo3. It is absolutely astonishing to play a Bayonetta game with zero replay value.
The irony is if Taylor wanted the game to fail so hard, she was better off keeping herself quiet until the game was released. Instead she just gave it a bigger chance to win more people over.
If you ask me, I think ALOT of people mad at Bayo Luka being a thing based their arguments in alot of circumstantial evidence. Especially when it comes to Bayo 2
Yes, she went to hell to save Jeanne, but there is very little, if anything at all, to imply she WOULDNT do that for Luka. It was just Jeanne cause of the circumstances at hand. After all, Bayonetta isnt really a character to lay back and do things halfway
The ending still got on my good side cause I am a sucker for what it did for the final boss and credit scene, so even if it is some level of 'character assassination' its so little for me to even particularly care
Please let them use the multiverse to ignore the ending of this. Otherwise I'm going to have to think long and hard about whether or not to buy any future Bayonetta games that aren't prequels.
I knew I have yet to play the game yet, But since Bayontta is voiced by another well known voice actress Jennifer Hale, I gonna say... I think she pulls the role very well.
Johnny is getting to The Zero Series knowing the Battle Network Legacy Collection is out in April. Better late than never I guess
I agree with a lot of this - looking forward to your views on Astral Chain!
Johnny I think you missed the Nucleus accessory you get at the end of the game. It lets you fully control Bayonetta while her demons do their own thing, real game changer!
1:05 To Skip Sponsor
I find it weird how people are upset Beyonetta is straight 😶
Its so sad that astral chain got so little attention.
the story was decent and by the end of the game it pretty much Begs for a sequel.
But the gameplay is top tier. it has one of the most unique combat systems ive seen and once you get good at it, you really feel like and unstoppable duo.
Story was awful but the gameplay was fantastic
Sorry no the combat was locked to 30 fps. That was an awful chouce
@@DirectorOfChaos9292 no
@@DirectorOfChaos9292 Yeah, if you needlessly limit yourself to dumb shit like that
Honestly I was super hyped going into Astral Chain, but I didn't like the combat at all.
Even after getting used to it, I just never found it satisfying. Your strings felt way too sluggish and attacks felt way too weightless for my liking with how little stagger was actually put out from them.
15:10
Oh, the comparisons is strong with this one.
Need to give this series a try. 3 looks fun!
It's not. Play the first 2 those games are great
Do it! 3 is by far the best one.
3 is good until you get gto the ending
@@288drumstix it's the worst
@@MegaSonicMegaX396 Nothing wrong with the ending at all.
It’ll still be about cereza because kamiya said that viola is a side character
“Mom, can we have DMC 5 at home?”
“Oh honey, we have DMC 5 at home.”
*DMC 5 at home:*
Very different games and this meme format being used is ignorant at best.
Unless you're referring to the story which yeah does kinda feel like it wanted to try a lot of the same shit, but also take it way more seriously which didn't really work.
Only thing I know about this game was the ending was "911 for the gays" -patrick boiven.
I look forward to when you get to the DMC games because their stories are miles better than whatever Bayonetta tried to do.
Well 3 and 5 mostly. But still, your point still stands.
@@DinoDave150 4 is good enough too; way better than anything in bayo at least
Lol no
@@novustalks7525 nah it is. It makes me like Nero and take his strugle seriously at the very least ┐( ∵ )┌ that is kinda more than what bayo ever did to me; that is without mentioning when the plot goes almost completely nonsensical in bayo, which happens in all of those games
@@pakapata the first 2 bayonetta games were comprehensible
Quite often a third entry in a series can make or break, and it sounds to me that this game is awkwardly in the middle.
But of course, I could be speaking nonsense, seeing as I have never touched Bayonetta as of this comment.
Should I ever get around to playing a Bayonetta game, however, I will come back to this comment.
I pretty much agree with everything here. to me, the story REALLY dampened by enjoyment of this game. I do care enough about the story to wanna see what they'd do, and I feel that, while Bayo2 retroactively enhances the story of the first game, this one makes both previous games feel lesser by implying we were even playing as the same Bayonetta in each game.
YOOO THE ZERO/ZX SERIES IS NEXT!!!!!!
Johnny with da Gold chain on goes crazy
I did enjoy this game but after beating it I think it okay I was disappointed I prefer Bayonetta 2 than this game honestly but still I enjoyed the gameplay
Anyone remember Scalebound? Looks like when that game was canned they inserted the gameplay into Bayonetta 3 probably.
looking forward for your look on the zero series. i would recommend checking out astral chain when possible, I personally enjoyed it quite a bit. A quick heads up though, unlike in bayonetta, you are not penalized for using items and it seems to be encouraged. You do get a small score bonus if you don't use items though.
Do NOT write off Astral Chain Johnny.
Pleaaasssseee give it a try, it deserves the attention.
It’s a solid 8.5/10. A must have for the switch
You know Johnny, you can queue the delayed demon slave attacks and return to controlling Bayonetta while the demon plays out their animations, letting you control both Bayonetta and the demon at the same time if done optimally, and you can chain different demons and their attacks together by swapping them out mid combo.
I was gonna say he massively undersold the Demon Slave system. There's so much room for creativity with it and to call it worse than Umbran Climax (which while stylish had no substance at all,) is a big disservice to the mechanic when the game is very smartly designed around juggling Bayo and Demon attacks.
@@Robbie_Haruna exactly
Yeah gonna be honest here. I originally wasn’t going to buy the game to support Hellena Taylor, but when the further information came out, I bought the game out to spite her. I don’t regret buying the game.
Merry Christmas, Johnny, and a Happy New Year!
Merry Christmas!
Having beat Bayonetta 3 today, I can say that Bayonetta 3 is a good game and was worth the hype, the weapon selection is huge and has a large verity, the bosses there also great, the controls were just as fluid and tight as it was in the previous game, and I do like the story and found its final serves during the final boss to be "ohhhhhh!"
Tho despite that, there are some cons that I do agree on. While the weapon selection is huge and I do like how much variety there is, I find it disappointing that you can swap them in either your legs or arms like you can in the previous game (which is something you forgot to talk about), I'm also not the fan of Viola's gameplay and how it reminds me of Raiden from Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, and also I'm glad I'm not the only one who agrees that Viola's Witch Time is super finicky to get even after doing the perfect Parry and I also found the ending to be a VERY BIG "Oh gosh I can't believe they did that".
And in all honesty, from how Viola has little to do in Bayonetta 3, the one Kraken boss that shows up at the begging of the game and never appears until the Post Credits, Luka's origin never being explain as well as his romance with Bayonetta being forced, and how Bayonetta got one of the Chaos Gears Off-Screen, it makes me think one thing.......Bayonetta 3 was Cleary rush during its development.
Now before anyone ask, NO, that does not mean Bayonetta 3 is the Darksiders 3, Kirby Star Allies and/or Sonic Forces of the Bayonetta series, it IS a finish product, and YES, I DO love Bayonetta 3 and considered it a great game, and I'm really wondering on what future planes that the Bayonetta series is gonna have, I'm just saying that Bayonetta 3 has some cut corners, tho considering the Deveopment Hell that this game went though, its no surprise to be like this.
Again I'll say this, Bayonetta 3 is a good game, and while I do prefer Bayonetta 2, I can say that Bayonetta 3 was worth the wait, and I'm really excited to see what future plans that this series is going to be going though next.
So Johnny, really good review you did.
I had similar feelings about the Bayo 3: fun combat but story was lacking. Viola was meh with her parry. But I had fun for the most part. I also had a glitch during the end credits where after finishing one of the bosses during the credits with a multi hitting move, the sound effect kept playing in the background and it was hilarious. I hope Bayo 4 does a better job by not having any backlash problems before releasing.