Thank you sir for clearing that up without making it a doctoral thesis . I am starting to use doubles and high pressure tanks for more advance diving.You have been a mentor an inspiration to help me make it this far long before I took my first sip from a regulator. Regardless of the naysayers out there I appreciate you sharing your time and knowledge (free of charge at that) to regular folks like me. Please continue your series as long as you are able to,
At the age of 55, I started diving, and so I UA-cam the heck out of it. ThankYou so much for all your videos, love them all and especially you attitude and how much fun you are, peace and god blessed
Thanks for your comment Rene. I'm 15 years older than you and still enjoy diving. I admit that I'm more particular about where I dive - no more mudholes or icy water. And at my age I've learned what's important - good attitude. I have no intention of dying a miserable, old man. If you can't laugh with me, I'll laugh at myself. Take care and good luck. Alec
Recap of PRO/CON for DIN valves: DIN Pros: 1) Higher pressure rating gives many benefits. a. Required for some types of diving b. Allows me to use a HP tank that is smaller but holds more gas for longer dives 2) Easier to use with any tank valve type (simple adapter that is user installed) 3) Lower profile so it doesn't hit your head as easy 4) Lighter weight DIN Cons: 1) Potentially more expensive up front (currently ~$10-20 more for a first/second stat set) a. Actually cheaper in the long run if you ever want to dive on a HP tank. It will cost you more than $100 to convert your yoke stage to DIN and also have an adapter for traveling if the dive location is yoke only. It will only cost you ~$50 for a din to yoke adapter if you travel. 2) If you are a complete fool, you could cross thread the 1st stage putting it on the tank. Conclusion: PLEASE don't buy a Yoke regulator. It was a mistake I almost immediately regretted.
Indeed as Alec mentions the old yoke o-ring dates back to an era when tank pressures were a lot lower and thus it was under less strain. In the United Kingdom and Europe we also have 5 and 7 thread DIN with the 7 thread ones needed for 300 Bar tanks (4400PSI).
Hi Alec, still loving the videos and still find your non bias opinion very refreshing. I thought I'd email a minor translation for some of your many UK viewers, some of whom are possibly new to the wonderful world of SCUBA. We in the UK call the 'Yoke' type 1st stage 'A' clamp. We also call 'Tanks' Cylinders and we measure their volume in litres, not cubic feet and their pressure in BAR rather than PSI, so sometimes I need to translate your Canadian into our UK. As I've said to you before, I've been diving over here for about 12 years and have both types of 1st stage, depending on what diving I am doing. I have an 'A' clamp (Yoke) pool set for training but 3 DIN sets for diving. A single set and two for twin set diving. I also carry 2 x 'A' to DIN adapters in my kit, just in case. Excellent videos, marvellous channels, keep up the good work.
Brand new diver here and OMG THANK YOU!!!! I was seriously confused prior and you have made this topic crystal clear. Again THANK YOU for the time taken to make this instructional video.
Hi Alec, this isn't a question but just wanted to say I absolutely rate your videos. They are very informative and useful to watch. Even things I had enough basic knowledge on your videos help expand that knowledge and how I can explain things to other divers who have questions. Keep it up.
Thanks Will. I'll do them as long as possible I have a year of ideas to shoot already. Keep watching, lots of information/tips you probably have never known to come. Alec
As mentioned below DIN is the abreviation for Deutsches Institut für Normierung or Deutsche Industrie Norm. Meaning German Industrial Standard. There are DIN norms for all kinds of different technical things like nuts, bolts, pipes, bricks.... If you take look at some technical stuff you'll find DIN numbers printed or engraved on alot of them as the DIN has become internationally acknowledged in many countries. A DIN norm that pretty muchj everbody is acquainted with is the DIN norm for paparformats. DIN A4. Sound familiar?
Thanks Alec, I was wondering about the difference. I started diving in the ‘70’s and have not been diving for a number of years. I’m getting back into diving and upgrading equipment and this is great information!
I got you on a good day eh? ("Eh" is Canadian for 'huh') It really is quite simple but some people can complicate anything. I'm glad I was able to help. Alec
Wow, thank you! Maybe its because I don't advertise, ask for subscriptions/likes or $$$. Guess I'm crazy but this is how I want to share my life's diving experiences with others. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for that great video 😃. Your shows are pure entertainment. DIN: Deutsche Industrie Norm which means, that it’s a German Industrial Standard. Doesn’t matter much and it’s just an addition for those who wanna know. For us Germans, the DIN is more appropriate because the connector is more compact and practical. The O-Ring is attached to the connector, so YOU YOURSELF have to take care about its good condition. You helped me a lot to understand the whys and stated some really interesting facts. For instance: - 3442 psi 237,31 bars (we’re offered tanks with either 200, 232 or 300 bars) - it’s funny that they might really put a stamp in the bottleneck according to the valve, which after all is the reeeeeaal bottleneck. Almost ironic Another thing what kind of bothers me is the designation of tanks: The effective volume of gas in the tank depends directly on the pressure. That means 80 cft or 2264 liters is only related to 2960 psi or 204 bars in a 11,1 liter tank. You can do the maths yourself and find some errors not only because I left out the decimals 😂, but it’s really confusing. Rise the pressure by one third and a 80 cft tank transforms to a 106 cft tank. In my opinion, clear technical facts are always best, such as: - volume in liters - maximum pressure capability So you have your SPG to calculate the effective amount of gas inside the tank. Just to keep things simple. Sorry, I wrote way to much, when all I wanted to say is THANKS 😂😂😂😂
zimt1 Hey 👋. Thanks for the hint. I didn’t realize that they actually founded an association out of it back in 2017. So the name changed once again on 22nd of December 2017 from what I said was correct to what you say is indeed correct 😆. We always have to see the whole story I guess. Maybe the name stays like that now and forever. But still... we can’t forget, what it came from and that’s factually industrial standardization. Many manufacturers turned into industries. All the simplification, cost reduction and mass production came from industrialization in the first place. So the term „NORM“ will always be directly related to industries.
Just a little addendum to Alec’s comment on DIN valves-there are actually two kinds of DIN valve. The Pro Valve like he shows in the video is a 200 bar valve-used for a maximum pressure of around 3000 psi. It easily converts back and forth with the insert he shows. There is also a 300 bar DIN valve. This is a higher pressure valve and does NOT convert to a K valve with an insert. The hole where the regulator screws into is deeper on the 300 bar, and while the insert will thread in, it won’t seat properly, and your yoke first stage won’t fit-it’ll be too short. Hope this helps someone.
I simply refer to them as the short/low or long/high DIN threads. You are right doubt the pressure differences and that the 300 bar cannot be converted into a yoke (above the max pressure a yoke can take). Thanks for watching and sharing this information.
So as a rec diver primarily who will learn tech and side mount in the coming years should I get the 300bar DIN? how easy is it to find tanks in Indo/PP/TH/APAC in general?
@@MrRagool As a diver who's looking to move into tech diving, you should definitely get a DIN regulator. All regulators can handle well above 300 bar of pressure. It's only the Yoke connector that limits the regulator to 232 bar as yo can't secure a Yoke in a way that it can deal with 300 bar. The o-ring will pop out. With DIN the o-ring is secured in the valve and has no pay to pop out. If you have a Yoke regulator already, have your local dive shop check if they can swap out the Yoke assembly for a DIN assembly. That way you don't have to buy a whole new regulator set.
Nice explanation. :-) There are a few more things to consider. Many tech divers prefer, rightly or wrongly, DIN as they are less likely to have the 1st stage's connection knocked in overhead environments (i.e. wreck penetration or cave diving). In the past, I prefered A-Clamp (as I know it) or Yoke or Int. as I've found it easier to quickly connect or remove the 1st stage. However, I am now using DIN. Here in the UK, there is now a difference between pillar valves intended for 232 BAR (3364 psi) tanks/cylinders to the pillar valves intended for 300 BAR (4351 psi). As you've already mentioned, the 300 BAR valves are all going to be DIN. New valves also have a different number of threads and a deeper hole for the 1st. The 1st stage now comes with an extra 'nipple' the O-Ring is on the connection. If the charging whips have this nipple too, it prevents non-300 Bar tanks from being filled to such pressures, but a 300 Bar tank can be filled on the 200/232 Bar whip. Finally, O-Rings. Yep, it's an obvious one for anyone who runs a dive centre, but it can be an issue for the unwary. With the Yoke system, the O-Ring is on the tank pillar valve. Those tanks in a busy resort are likely to be used once a day, every day of the year. They can and do fail. Who is responsible for the tanks? The dive resort. So they have to ensure that the DMs and Instructors have plenty of spare O-Rings. Depending on the quality and number of people on the boat, they could be changing 3 or 4 a week quite easily. With the DIN system, those pillar valves don't have an O-Ring (Ok all have one where the valves screw into the tank, but I'm referring to where the 1st stage connects). The O-Ring is on the 1st stage. Ok, if the 1stage has been hired, then it'll be down to the resort to replace one more, but they tend to last better on DIN 1st stages. Also if a customer brings their own 1st stage, then it isn't the resort's O-Ring that needs to be changed. Ok, I'm sure that a reputable dive resort is not going to let an O-Ring spoil your dive. If you've had your regulators services properly, then that O-Ring will have been changed as a matter of course, so in theory, you should be fine and the O-Ring won't fail so quickly. Safe diving everyone!
Sea Hunt was my inspiration to become a diver like Mike Nelson. Go diving, catch bad guys and get the girl too. I am the largest collector of Sea Hunt memorabilia in the world. Maybe watch my Sea Hunt Remembered playlist to see the old days again.
Wow this really helped me out explaining what it all is and how it's used!! Thank you!! I looked through a few articles and videos but I didn't understand it till I watched yours! So seriously! Thank you for explaining it so well!!
DIN==Better. More compact, more secure connection, can be field converted to yoke, higher pressure support, you know your O-ring status before the dive. Only drawback is if you run into yoke only tanks w/o the pro-valves, and that's not a fault of DIN... :) Maybe we need a yoke confiscation program to get everyone converted over!
@@MrRagool a Pro Valve is the same thing Mr Peirce refers to as a conversion valve in this video. The tank valve has a plug you may add or remove to easily switch between yoke and DIN. Pro Valve is just the trade name. I know Faber puts these on their hp steel cylinders.
Agree that DIN is better in almost every aspect. - support for higher pressure - takes less space - the o-ring belongs to the first stage. So you are not dependent on the rental o-ring that has been out in the sun the entire season. - the yoke can be more fragile. To metal failures. I think yoke is slightly easier / faster to connect. But can’t think of any other positives.
Great explanation Alec!! There is something I found very interesting, maybe it will help some others divers too!! So, I have a 300 bar din reg, and one time I tried to screw into a 232 bar tank valve, but I couldn’t screw all the way, I was very confused. It turns out that if you have a 300 bar din reg, you can use it with a 232 din valve or a 300 din tank valve. BUT it is not safe to use a 232 din reg with a 300 din tank valve. It turns out the best way to do it, is to use a din to yoke adaptor(232 bar) and use on any yoke valve, plus use it with din value( without the adapter of course), best travel friendly option. My only concern is that, when I use my 300 bar reg with a 232 bar tank valve, the threads that doesn’t screw all the way in really bothers me, and it seems like it is not very secure. Can you address this issue ? Thank you :)
Actually Price, it's pretty simple. Clear your mind of all the confusing details and start over. DIN tank valves come in 2 versions - 200bar or 300bar. The reason for the difference is obvious - the 200bar valve is for a tank with a pressure rating of 200bar while the 300bar valve is for the higher pressure 300bar tanks. Now, most late model regulators will come equipped with a 300bar DIN fitting. Earlier models came with a 200bar fitting. It's really academic since all regulator made in the last 25 years regulators will easily handle 300bar. So, to your dilemma, your 300bar regulator fitting will fit into either a 200bar or 300bar tank valve. That makes sense since a regulator designed for 300bar can safely be used in a 200bar tank. You've already noticed that a 200bar fitting will not screw into a 300bar valve and again the reason is sensible. You would not want a device that that is rated for 200bar to fit into a 300bar tank. The valves and valves are easy to tell apart. The 300bar has a longer thread so the shorter 200bar reg fitting will not bottom out and seal. The exposed threads are not an issue. The O-Ring on the bottom seals and at 200bar the threads that are inserted into the vale are more than enough to make it safe. I hope that clears it up. It's a good system and quite safe. Take care. Alec
@@pricediver There are no 232 bar DIN regulators. All DIN regulators can handle, and will fit a 300 bar DIN valve. The only difference is that you DIN regulator will screw all the way into a 300 bar DIN valve, and will stick out a little more on a 232 bar DIN valve. Only ring inserts will not fit a 300 bar DIN valve. They screw in too deep, and you can't clamp a Yoke connector to it, or you don't screw it in deep enough, and the valve will leak like an SOB.
Great episode Pierce, I use an Aqualung Mistral 2005 model double hose regulator that's a DIN connection, I had put one of those DIN to yoke adapters for my 80cf tank, LOL I had no idea what I had, learning from you Pierce, just made my double hose regulator even more awesome! Thanks
I've been at home with a broken shoulder for a while and watched your videos. My shoulder is fine now and i still watch your videos. Thank you so much for each and every one of them. You and Kevin are great! You guys have helped me trough a tough time. Thank you!!!! About this vid: Again very well told, and much appreciated. But why do you seem to lean towards the old, lesser performing system? You're mostly progressive, going with modern tech in all your other vids, and sometimes even laugh (and have me laughing along) at the old ways, whilst still showing respect for the ways it had to be done back then. I've been around the world diving, and learned on yokes, and used them on most rental gear, for most of my dives. But now that time has come to get my own, i didn't give yoke any thought at all, thanks in part to your vids. In my opinion, DIN should be the standard for all first stages, and yoke converters should be supplied untill yoke-only-tanks and their valves have all been scrapped. I don't want to sound harsh, but yoke is no way forward. We don't have J-valves anymore, even though half the world used them at some point. I have to respectfully disagree with you, in my opinion DIN is better. Thank you very much for all your efforts on youtube. Mechanikos
Thanks for your comments J&M. And I appreciate what you are saying but, it's a bit like telling the British that right-hand drive is archaic and obsolete so they should change over like the rest of the world. Yoke is fine. DIN is fine. The choice is based on your diving needs. Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Well said and much appreciated. Liking your own gear is nice part of scuba too, right? Again, thank you for all of your vids. They really help me, and probably others, with picking gear, and the're enjoyable as well. B.t.w. do we ever get to Kevin on screen?
Great video again Alec! Unfortunately last weekend I couldn’t dive since the shop had forgot to put the insert in for my yoke regs, so I learnt to always check whether the tank was for Yoke or for DIN regulators. I actually bought a DIN-To-Yoke Insert afterwards which cost $10 (AUD) and then a set of Allen Keys from Bunnings (a tool/hardware/gardening warehouse store chain similar to Home Depot in the US/Canada) for $5 so next time I don’t get caught short. I definitely think the insert is the easiest and cheapest option for using Yoke regs with a DIN tank valve.
Agree. Buy one tank valve and with a convertible insert, have 2 options. Another advantage with the inserts is if a o-ring blows, just unscrew and replace with a spare and dive. Fast and saves trying to safely pull out a bad o-ring when in rush. Thanks for sharing Andrew.
I never see Yoke regs here in slovakia. All of our LDS use DINs :D so when i first saw yoke i was confused... but honestly, it doesnt matter to me what you are using if you can manage an "emergency" situation underwater. unless we go cavediving together, then i need to know what you are using :D Thanks alec! You make me smarter and smarter every video
Good or better - Well. You're of course right - you should be careful using the word "better". However ... I know that YOKE has been there forever - and that it is a well tested technology, but here is my 50 cents. 1. Yes, as you mention in the video - DIN is approved for higher pressure. If you want to take advantage of that - DIN is not better - it's the only option. 2. With the YOKE system - the O-ring is part of the tank valve This means that when you're on a diving boat and using air supplied by the boat, every time you mount your regulator for the next dive - you need to inspect the o-ring for damage, wear, cracks, etc. And every time you change you have to check carefully. You do not however stand there on the boat and pry out the O-ring to check for cracks on the back and so on - but you should - shouldn't you? After all - this is the system that keeps you alive under water. 3. With the DIN system - the O-ring is mounted on your regulator - it's yours (given of course that you're diving with your own regulator). If you have just recently changed and lubricated your O-ring, no one else has been using or abusing it, no Open Water Student has 30 minutes ago misplaced his regulator and damaged the valve O-ring, you can be pretty confident that your O-ring is okay. At least you know that it's not 3 years old dried out rubber. Of course you always check before mounting your regulator, but you know its history. Problem here of course being that the diving boat probably don't supply tanks with DIN valves :-( 4. Space. I dive with a Mares MR12ST 1st stage, which has the yoke screw on the end of the 1st stage cylinder. Most of the time my regulator kit is placed in a regulator bag and occasionally its taken out and used for diving, but lets face it - most of the time it's being stored somewhere. Now, I travel with at least my Reg and my computer - the rest I can rent. I just came home from Thailand where I had my luggage in a backpack.And to be honest - trying to fit that regulator bag into the backpack with that darn YOKE pointing out in a completely different direction is just a pain. I know this is not a technical issue - but it sure is a practical one. So - I would definitely say that having a DIN regulator and a YOKE adapter gives you the best possibilities as you can use your reg for EVERY situation, be that high pressure, space savings, trust in your life-saving O-ring, and so on. Maybe DIN isn't better, maybe DIN is a german/european standard and not US, but then again - what gives you the most options ? So yes - I have recently ordered a DIN conversion kit for my MR12ST 1st stage.
DIN does have safety advantages. The greater pressure capacity can reduce the risk of a rupture in case of overfilling when the tanks are attached to a compressor. Since the O-ring in a DIN is in the regulator, rather than on the exterior of the valve as in the yoke, it’s less likely to be lost or damaged during transport. Tests have also shown the DIN to be more resilient to impact compared to a yoke, which can be knocked off, though it may be an unlikely, but not impossible, scenario.
I would say most use din and din is standard. Deutsche Institut Norm. Din is safer and can handle more pressure. Europe, Asia and middle east use din. From experience I have seen a few people have issues with their leaky yoke setup. I for one prefer to bring my own o ring. Fresh and serviced. Accept your argument about "better" though. Having said that, for cold water diving here in Switzerland, yokes are banned. We need two valves for safety incase one freezes. No one here uses yokes here because they are not allowed.
Hello Alec. Another great vídeo and Always clarifying some questions we have. I just wished you had talked about diference between DIN 200 and DIN 300 and the conflicts with adapters, limitations on using one and another. Maybe you can add that topic to one of you next vídeos. Cheers.
You are so correct I bought a Sherwood Reg DIN a month ago and just 3 days ago dove 2 cenotes in Tulum Mex and the next day 2 dive in Mahahual Mex and out of ten dive stores in Tulum and about 8 in Mahahual not one dive store had DIN valves so I did not have an adapter and many of the dive shops did not either but eventually got one but your advice on this with specific areas of the world was spot on
Great video, sir. I went with a DIN regulator paired with a yoke adapter. HOWEVER, my adapter came with a screw knob too short for any yoke cylinder valve I’ve ever came across. Isn’t yoke valves standard? Do they come in different sizes?
The yoke thread is standard, the length is not. I have seen very short and a few long ones. It varies my manufacturer so if you looking for a longer yoke knob, shop around on Google or ask your LDS. Its not an unusual item so then should find you a longer one. A
Hi Alec.. we’re currently on a dive trip with our new DIN regulators. We chose DIN as the basis for the first stage for several reasons, but we do have yoke adaptors. We’ve found that it’s very difficult to screw the DIN fitting into the rental tanks they have here (they are very well used for sure). Maybe one out of three to four tanks attach well. What advice do you have to help us fit the DIN regulators? I don’t think lubricants are the answer, but appreciate any advice. Worst case, we can abandon DIN while here and just switch to yoke with our adaptors. But we’d like to make the DIN work if able. Thanks!
Hard turning a DIN means the tank threads have likely been bashed around (sorry, aggressively handled). It's the one negative with rental tanks and DIN's I know of. As long as you can hand tighten the DIN fully into the tank, its OK to use as the o-ring is in the end of the tank. If no air leaks, should be good. Never use a tool to force a DIN onto a tank, that's when your good gear gets damaged by the bad rental gear. Should the threading be more than hand tight, skip DIN and go yoke for the trip. Saves damaging your threads and you're there for fun not stress. Take care and thanks for watching. A
Ah, I just had my new 1st stage converted to YOKE as it came with a DIN as standard. My thinking was that every boat I went on in Egypt all used YOKE on Ali cylinders so the cylinders I'm guessing would only be filled near 232 bar anyways. So if I ever come across a DIN cylinder valve .... Id check pressure inside was suitable for YOKE and put my own YOKE insert into the DIN threaded opening . All I need to carry is the little DIN to YOKE adapter and an Allen key , which is smaller than carrying the bigger converter to go on a DIN first stage to make it YOKE compatible . The Yoke fitting has been around for years so until I feel I need more pressure ... jobs a gooden right ? thanks for the vid !
I am learning tec and side mount so I am going to DIN. For me it is not just about the high pressure but about knobs and entanglements. The DIN takes up less space and when searching for shutoff it much simpler in stressful situations also there is nothing protruding on the yoke side of the tank. In side-mount if you go valves up there is nothing to scrape or get caught if a line runs across the bottom of tank.
Thanks Reza. I want divers to be able to make informed decisions about what's best for them - not based on bias from a store owner or dive buddy. I hope you got something from it. Alec
I can make it very technical but what's the point? Only a dozen people would get it! I'm trying to get divers to understand more about their gear. I think it will make you a better diver, or at least more comfortable. Take care. Aec
I recall you talking about DIN200 vs DIN300 during some episode (side note) but I can't find it now... this should have really be mentioned here as it's so as simple as you make it sound, unless you have a modern valve and
Interesting - one would argue DIN actually IS better in every way then International. Its more compact, lighter, supports more pressure and probably most importantly - its much more sturdy - drop the bottle on a DIN 1st stage, no worries - drop it on the yoke valve, you might have trouble.
You list valid considerations but the #1 reason is higher tank pressures. Both work well so it's up to the diver what works better for them. Thanks for sharing Matija.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you for providing heaps of great SCUBA information to the wide world! Your knowledge and manner of sharing are both much appreciated! Concerning DIN/international - one could argue yoke types big advantage is just how widespread it is. One would be better of counting on it beeing used wherever he goes diving.
Here are my views about Din and Yoke. 1. If one is buying a new regulator, I think buying one with a DIN first stage is more practical since converting a DIN to Yoke is easier. 2. I think DIN connections are more secure than Yoke connections, especially if one will dive in environments such as places with lots of overhead. A Yoke connection is more likely to "break" off if hit vs a DIN connection.
If you dive in a region where DIN is common, you'd be perfectly correct. If you dive in the western hemisphere, North America & the Caribbean, DIN is not used. Alec
Got me one of the Apeks DIN to Yoke adapters for my Apeks DIN reg to use for the cylinders of the scuba club I'm part of which have DIN cylinders but they have the Yoke converter installed. Works a treat :>
I only had DIN valve tanks other than my pony tank. I liked that I'd only take 1 on 2 tank dive boat trip and still have more air left when I was actively diving. 😒 I sold off my 2 hi pressure steel tanks and just kept my AL tanks. I'll miss having them no weight belt needed most of the time. I was able to dive with my drysuit without any lead. Probably not now. I'm trying to get back diving now.... Many life changes.
I prefer DIN for a few reasons. One is that the yoke knob is similar to the tank valve knob. This can cause issues in an emergency, turning on or off a pony bottle, or using doubles. I also prefer having the o-ring on the reg and not the tank. This puts the onus of o-ring maintenance on me and not the owner of the tank (possibly someone else.) One more possible tech tip topic is 200 BAR DIN vs 300 BAR DIN, and how you should buy DIN regs and tanks.
A yoke regulator could potentially get knocked off a tank but not the valve. A yoke valve and a DIN valve are identical and neither is more susceptible to getting knocked off. As the Devil's advocate, I have seen several DIN valves that have sustained a bump on the top. That was enough to crush the valve slightly, hardly noticeable but enough to make it impossible to install the regulator. Again, I don't like the statement that a DIN valve is better. It is essential in some circumstances, but better. That's a judgement call. Alec
Nicely done, sir. Very informative & frankly highly entertaining! So, to be clear--DIN to yoke conversion on 1st stage can be performed by diver, whereas you suggest a first-stage yoke to DIN conversion be performed by a dive equipment technician? (Generally speaking, of course. All for entertainment purposes).
Isn't DIN also more safe when it comes to diving cold water (due to possible air leakage caused by o-rings of the yoke valve)? At least that was what we were told when diving in Iceland's 1°C water. And out of curiosity: are there tec divers with yoke regulators?
A poorly maintained O-Ring will breakdown and leak. That's for sure. However, to compare a DIN valve to a poorly maintained yoke valve is hardly fair. A yoke valve in good condition with a fresh O-Ring is no more likely to leak that a DIN valve. A DIN valve is much more susceptible to permanent damage from even a light hit on the top. It crushes very easily. I've seen many of them. But I wouldn't say that DINs are bad because of that. ALL tech divers started on yoke (in North America anyway). Most use DIN but for a variety of reasons - not necessarily safety. Alec
Hi Alec, I don't fully understand the logic of a max pressure for yoke regs being 3500 psi. How would it be possible fit a yoke reg on any tank valve at higher pressure? 3442 psi is 237 bar. This is above a standard 232 bar rating for most dive tanks. Above that you are looking at 300 bar rated tanks which require a 300 bar reg. The two valves and regs are deliberately incompatible, with a 232 bar DIN reg having five threads and thus not forming a seal with a 7 thread 300 bar DIN valve (although the converse is possible and safe). By inference you are suggesting that a yoke valve is as safe as a DIN valve when used on a 232 Bar valve. What is the evidence for this? Are there any stats? tx & rgds, Ric
I suppose I could have said it this way: a yoke is designed to safely work up to 3500psi while a DIN can safely handle pressures above that. The point is that the technical difference between the two is strictly the pressure of the tank. If there are other differences that make one or the other more or less desireable, they are personal preferences or opinions, NOT technical issues. There may well be other differences and those differences may well influence a divers opinion or decision about which to use but, the technical difference is the tank pressure. While the two different valves and corressponding regualtors are designed to be incompatible, divers will ofetn use adapters to overcome that fact. Just as you can moun a DIN regulator on a 3000psi tank, it is also quite possible to mount a yoke regulator on a 3500psi tank. I do like Dave's point about having the reg/valve sealing O-ring on the diver's regulator (as with DIN) where it is less likely to be subject to damage and wear and more likley to be serviced regualrly. I never thought about that. Thanks guys for your comments. Alec
i know this video is older, but i saw another video where they say din is better(sorry couldn't come with a better word).one reason the oring is on the din regulator(your responsibility) and not the tank(maintained by the dive shop). if i had to buy a new regulator i'd like to switch to din. being from canada i currently have yoke and dive the Caribbean where most of the tank setups are for yokes. my question is can all the yoke tank setups have there yoke adapters removed via an allen key to be able to setup din or are they welded in place. i'm assuming that all valves are din valves with a yoke valve adapter. i take it i'm mistaken.
In the Caribbean, almost all tank valves are dual yoke/DIN capable. They get a lot of European divers who need DIN threads. In all my dive travels, in the last 10 years every trip had at least one DIN diver and they had no problem with tank valves. Go with what you like and travel safe Duane.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter thanks for your response. you've taught me more about the equipment of diving than any other vids. i can have a knowledgeable conversation of dive equipment. thanks
@@dtt3426 If you see a valve that has an o-ring embedded in smooth metal, it's a Yoke valve only. You'll need a DIN to Yoke adapter to use your regulator with that cylinder. If you see a small bezel outside the o-ring (and a hex shape on the inside), it's a convertible valve and you can take the insert out so you can fit your DIN reg. Some DIN valves are deeper. These are rated to 300 bar, and will never have an insert as the insert will screw in too far. This is to prevent divers putting a 232 bar Yoke on a 300 bar cylinder (even if the cylinder is only filled to 232 bar or less). You DIN regulator will fit those valves just fine. It should also be noted that most regulators can be converted from Yoke to DIN (or the other way around, but I don't know why you would want that) by a certified technician. They'll take the entire Yoke assembly out, and replace it with a DIN assembly. So for those who regret purchasing a Yoke in this day and age, you can correct your mistake without the need for buying a whole new regulator again.
Love your videos! Qucik question, we are pretty new to diving and go your new DIN regulators (MK25) and wanted to be clear on something. If it can handle more BARs of pressure, that would mean more air capaicity in the tank correct? If not what is the difference between lower and higher pressures?
DIN regs are rated for 200 and 300 bar or standard vs high pressure tanks. Higher pressure may mean more capacity but also depends on tank size (eg a 12L vs 15L tank). Hope this helps John.
Great video on Din. I bought a DIN regulator and am buying a DIN to yoke adapter as recommended by you to use with various K value tanks. As you mention that adapter adds another two inches (toward the back of your head) through the conversion process. What do you think about turning the tank 180 degrees and then mounting the regulator/adapter combination facing away from the head and then re-positioning all the hoses to their appropriate position?
That's a lot of fussing around to eliminate a problem that may not even exist. Do you bang your head on the regulator regularly? If so, give it a try. If not, quit worrying and have fun. Alec
Nope. You can mount the reg any way you want, whatever works for you. You might get some funny looks but maybe, like me, you get funny looks anyway. Alec
Dear Mr. Peirce I have a question: The YOKE mount first stage regulator works on 230bar pressure. The DIN mount first stage regulator- on 300bars pressure. If I have YOKE mount first stage regulator can I convert it to DIN? For the mechanical aspect for that it’s clear- I have purchased the necessary kit for that. I mean: is there any adjustments needed to perform to the regulator its self due to the higher working pressure ? Best regards: Peter B.
No. The input pressure is irrelevant to the operation of the reg - assuming the regulator is made to accept the higher pressure. If your reg is less than 10 years old, you're fine. Alec
@@peterboynov1317 Except, get an authorized technician to perform the swap. They have the tools for it, and if something goes wrong, it's on them. The Mk25 is an expensive piece of kit. If you mess up, you're probably going to get it fixed for far more than the cost of having the swap done for you.
Thanks for the great videos with such a fresh style, and for sharing your experience! It's like having a nice relaxed chat with someone that knows A LOT :)). Nice! By the way, in Europe, at least in Spain, I've seen both DIN and yoke ("international" is what yoke's called in Spain/Spanish) when renting tanks, probably even more yoke than DIN I'd say... except when the business is run by Germans ;P. Also, even when yoke is good enough, I think it's fair to say that DIN system is probably safer, plus it's much easier to change to yoke in case of need. So, getting a DIN+adapter seems to be a safer, more flexible choice when considering to buy a 1st stage... so I wouldn't consider getting a yoke reg anyway... Keep going with the videos! They are awesome!!
Thanks for your comments Luis. I suppose I agree with your sentiments about DIN vs yoke (and about Germans! I can say that since my mom was German). In North America and most areas (hence International??) the yoke is all you see so despite the possible advantages of DIN, the yoke is not about to disappear. Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Yes, international as it's more widely spread... and DIN stands for Deutsche Industrie Norm, the german national standard organization... that's why germans do use it all the time :))
Hi Alec :) Thank you for all the vids! I'm looking to purchase a regulator with a first stage. I plan to be diving either in Asia or in North America, but might occasionally be diving in Europe. Would you recommend a DIN first stage + converter? I've heard that there may be problems using a converter. Also saw a comment about different DIN first stages. Could you possibly make a video about it in the future? Thanks!
I did a video about the DIN converter. If you plan to dive where DIN is common I suggest you convert your reg to a DIN fitting. Then get a spin-on converter for when you're diving in yoke country. I know of no problems with this setup, a DIN reg with a yoke converter, if the components are in good shape and the installation is proper. Good luck. Alec
Alec, is there any concern with QC at tank manufacturing in terms of overpressurizing a steel tank marked for 3440 PSI? My thinking is this: when a tank is stamped with a 3500 PSI rating, the manufacturer (may have) tested it for failure at that pressure. If a tank has a flaw and would have failed at 3480 PSI, it would still pass QC for 3440 PSI, but would not handle 3500. Is it really as safe as you imply to take a tank stamped for 3440 PSI up to 3500?
It's my belief that a tank, steel or aluminum, will withstand much higher pressure than the stamped pressure with no real ill affects. Steel tanks in particular will take much higher pressure and not be damaged. However, the stamped pressure takes into account not only the safety of the tank itself but also the valve. The valve is threaded into the tank and is subject to extreme pressures as well. The valve mechanism itself plus the threads must be considered. Tanks, as you know, are fitted with a safety blow-out that is designed to release the pressure if the tank pressure gets too high. I'm not sure why you are asking but I suggest that the manufacturers have good technical reasons for any such pressure rating - tank, valve or safety. Also, a tank stamped for 3442 can have a yoke-type valve while at 3500 it must use a DIN valve only. Overpressure of a tank may, I say may, contribute to increased stretching of the tank and thus premature hydro test failure.
Hi Alec. You make things look easy. Question, I found a new Scubapro MK21 Regulator at a good price, but it's a DIN. If I put the DIN to TIN Adapter it would be forever since I dive in Cozumel. Wouldn't it damage it? your advice is very important. Thank you.
Most tanks in Cozumel have convertible tank valves for DIN and yoke as many divers come from North America and Europe. Just ask your diving provider to confirm convertible tanks inserts. Should not need a DIN to yoke converter in Cozumel. A.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter True for the most part, but I did get use out of my DIN to yoke converter when I was diving there, not all every tank is convertible, there are indeed yoke tank rentals in Cozumel as well, and most dive shops source their tanks from the same tank rental company(as far as I know only one dive shop on the island actually has its own compressors, and they're the islands' tech dive shop, and even they also use the rental tank company for rec tanks).
The world has changed since this video was made. Most tanks now come with a pro valve that allows either reg. I still have one din tank that won't take an insert. Din is better as it can handle higher pressure without leaking. A din reg can easily be converted to yoke whereas yoke is more difficult to convert to din. You also don't have to play Russian roulette every time you hook up a resort tank like using yoke. The sealing oring is yours and you maintain it.
Hi again Alec. there Should I buy a DIN with a converter to the yoke? I'll be diving more in the southern asian countries. Or just the International Yoke style. for Rec. diving.
IMO, buy DIN since you can always screw on a Yoke adapter easily vs converting a Yoke connection to DIN. And I also feel DIN connections are more secure than Yoke.
Several big companies have introduced that mechanism over the years, It's not a new nor novel idea at all. So far, no one have found a system that works perfectly. Oceanic had a simple system but it had some reliability problems and has been discontinued. US Divers has a similar system but it's considerably more complicated (more parts). We'll have to wait to see how it measures up. There is just no better way to keep water out of your regulator than good diver practices. Even with a sealing system in place, a sloppy diver will have problems so I'm not sure if it's worth pursuing an automatic seal system. I suppose it's like an automatic directional system on a car that will start your turn signals when you decide to turn a corner or maybe when your GPS tells you to turn up ahead. Great idea, not inconceivable, but certainly prone to problems because of sloppy drivers. Alec
What is the danger of having a yoke regulator connected to a tank with a pressure over 3500 psi? The other day a guy was «presented» with a tank with 320 bar (that's 4600 psi!!!). He has a 7 threads DIN regulator, however we questioned what would have happened if it was a yoke. Could the regulator be expelled like a bullet? And what could happened if it was a 5 threads DIN?
Actually it's not the yoke that's the problem. A modern yoke will easily handle the pressure but the O-Ring in a yoke-style valve is not completely encircled by the valve face and it can extrude (squeeze out) under high pressure. It might not. But it might. Technically, at 3500 psi or higher he could only use a 7 thread DIN. The 2 different DIN valves are for different pressure and they are NOT interchangeable for safety. A 200 BAR DIN regulator thread is too short to reach the bottom of a 300 BAR DIN valve so the O-Ring can't seal. You can thread the reg into the valve but when you turn on the air it just pours out. You can use a 300 BAR DIN regulator in a 200 BAR valve but not vice versa. 320 BAR is equivalent to 4500 psi. While not an exact equivalency (1 BAR = 14.5 psi), similar North American tanks are rated at 4500 psi. Generally we only see them as a fibreglass reinforced aluminum cylinder as used by firefighters (Scott Pacs) or paintballers. Thanks for watching. Alec
Good day Mr. Alec. On the case where i want to buy the din to yoke adaptor, can i buy any brand of adaptor or do i stick with same the brand as my regulator? Will there be any compatibility issues? Thank you sir
In North America, the yoke is standard (meaning no variations). The DIN has 2 options, normal and high pressure tanks. Normal DIN have 5 threads and the High Pressure DIN tanks have 7 threads. So a yoke to DIN is very common with no compatibility issues for regular tanks. Your store should confirm the DIN threads for the type of tanks your using. Good luck.
A DIN to Yoke adapter is just a hunk of metal. There are no compatibility issues. The adapter screws on to your DIN regulator, and you then clamp it over a Yoke valve. Any brand adapter will fit any brand DIN regulator.
Alec, Just bought my first Din. Is it ok to mount it 180 degrees or upside down? My helmet hits it when I mount the normal way. I realize I will need to swtich my hoses if I run the reg this way. Didn’t know if it will effect performance of the reg. Thank you
Nope. Doesn't matter at all. The change in pressure is about 1" - negligible. Even if it was much more it would not be an issue. Mount it so it works for you. That is one of the benefits of DIN. Good luck. Alec
I have the Scuba Pro MK25. Does it matter which way I have it oriented on the tank such as the low pressure tubes above the high pressure tubes for performance wise?
You can even have the valve point sideways, mount the regulator at 90 degrees, and use it as spoke. Not sure why you would want to, but you can. Regulator orientation doesn't hinder its performance. There's pressure on all sides of the regulator, not just the top or bottom.
question: INT and yoke it's the same thing? What do you think about scoobapro MK25 EVO/A700 Carbon BT Dive Regulator System, INT ? If you will be buying your first regulator you will be choosing DIN over INT? (looks like DIN to yoke conversion it's easier than INT to DIN). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
INT means International and refers to the very popular yoke attachment so yes, INT and yoke are synonymous. I've no idea how or why the INT designation exists when "yoke" works just fine. There is no place in the world where the yoke won't work. All dive centers worldwide are accustomed too and can accept the yoke. If you think you will be using your regulator on a DIN valve at some point (steel high-pressure tanks is the usual application), then a DIN fitting is worth considering when you purchase a regulator. Otherwise, you will not be disadvantaged by having a yoke only. Most DIN tank valves can be converted to accept a yoke regulator with the insertion of a very cheap, screw-in DIN-to-yoke converter. If you have a DIN regulator and want to use it as a yoke, that's easy too with a screw-on converter but it is much more expensive. The other downside to this adaption is that the regulator becomes somewhat longer and could bump your head depending on its design. The Scubapro MK25/A700 is a great regulator but, why would you pay an extra $300 -$400 for a shiny black finish. That's the only difference between the carbon model and the normal chrome finish model. Also, the S600 2nd stage is equal in performance to the A700 in every way for less money and less service aggravation. It is the better choice for cold water and dirty water and it is much easier to remove the cover for a thorough cleaning. Good luck. Alec
I just saw another video that mentioned 300bar DIN valves have 7 threads vs 5 on those limited to 230 bar… so if I buy a 300bar rated DIN regulator will ai be able to use it with a regular tank after the yoke adapter is removed?
300 Bar DIN regulators will fit on all* DIN valves. The limited 232 bar DIN regulators won't fit on 300 bar DIN valves, but 300 bar DIN regulators will fit on 232 bar DIN valves. *scuba diving. There's another DIN threading type that is only for medical oxygen tanks, and won't fit a scuba regulator.
Thank you sir for clearing that up without making it a doctoral thesis . I am starting to use doubles and high pressure tanks for more advance diving.You have been a mentor an inspiration to help me make it this far long before I took my first sip from a regulator. Regardless of the naysayers out there I appreciate you sharing your time and knowledge (free of charge at that) to regular folks like me. Please continue your series as long as you are able to,
Your knowledge and expertise knocks most internet warriors straight out of their fins. Thank you for all your great videos.
Thanks for watching and for your support.
Alec
Alex always provides the most informative explanations, while keeping the audience engaged in the topic. What a great personality!
Well thank you Ray.
Just for the record, I have no idea who this very intelligent and insightful gentleman is.
Alec
At the age of 55, I started diving, and so I UA-cam the heck out of it. ThankYou so much for all your videos, love them all and especially you attitude and how much fun you are, peace and god blessed
Thanks for your comment Rene.
I'm 15 years older than you and still enjoy diving.
I admit that I'm more particular about where I dive - no more mudholes or icy water.
And at my age I've learned what's important - good attitude.
I have no intention of dying a miserable, old man.
If you can't laugh with me, I'll laugh at myself.
Take care and good luck.
Alec
Recap of PRO/CON for DIN valves:
DIN Pros:
1) Higher pressure rating gives many benefits.
a. Required for some types of diving
b. Allows me to use a HP tank that is smaller but holds more gas for longer dives
2) Easier to use with any tank valve type (simple adapter that is user installed)
3) Lower profile so it doesn't hit your head as easy
4) Lighter weight
DIN Cons:
1) Potentially more expensive up front (currently ~$10-20 more for a first/second stat set)
a. Actually cheaper in the long run if you ever want to dive on a HP tank. It will cost you more than $100 to convert your yoke stage to DIN and also have an adapter for traveling if the dive location is yoke only. It will only cost you ~$50 for a din to yoke adapter if you travel.
2) If you are a complete fool, you could cross thread the 1st stage putting it on the tank.
Conclusion:
PLEASE don't buy a Yoke regulator. It was a mistake I almost immediately regretted.
Indeed as Alec mentions the old yoke o-ring dates back to an era when tank pressures were a lot lower and thus it was under less strain.
In the United Kingdom and Europe we also have 5 and 7 thread DIN with the 7 thread ones needed for 300 Bar tanks (4400PSI).
Hi Alec, still loving the videos and still find your non bias opinion very refreshing.
I thought I'd email a minor translation for some of your many UK viewers, some of whom are possibly new to the wonderful world of SCUBA.
We in the UK call the 'Yoke' type 1st stage 'A' clamp. We also call 'Tanks' Cylinders and we measure their volume in litres, not cubic feet and their pressure in BAR rather than PSI, so sometimes I need to translate your Canadian into our UK.
As I've said to you before, I've been diving over here for about 12 years and have both types of 1st stage, depending on what diving I am doing. I have an 'A' clamp (Yoke) pool set for training but 3 DIN sets for diving. A single set and two for twin set diving. I also carry 2 x 'A' to DIN adapters in my kit, just in case.
Excellent videos, marvellous channels, keep up the good work.
Alec you're a great man! Serving the scuba community... A new diver like me has learnt a lot from his videos and advices...God bless!
Glad to help a new diver learn more and become a smarter, safer diver. Lots more to watch until your as smart as me.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Brand new diver here and OMG THANK YOU!!!! I was seriously confused prior and you have made this topic crystal clear. Again THANK YOU for the time taken to make this instructional video.
Glad it was helpful Stan.
Hi Alec, this isn't a question but just wanted to say I absolutely rate your videos. They are very informative and useful to watch. Even things I had enough basic knowledge on your videos help expand that knowledge and how I can explain things to other divers who have questions. Keep it up.
Thanks Will. I'll do them as long as possible I have a year of ideas to shoot already. Keep watching, lots of information/tips you probably have never known to come.
Alec
As mentioned below DIN is the abreviation for Deutsches Institut für Normierung or Deutsche Industrie Norm. Meaning German Industrial Standard. There are DIN norms for all kinds of different technical things like nuts, bolts, pipes, bricks.... If you take look at some technical stuff you'll find DIN numbers printed or engraved on alot of them as the DIN has become internationally acknowledged in many countries. A DIN norm that pretty muchj everbody is acquainted with is the DIN norm for paparformats. DIN A4. Sound familiar?
Thank you Alec for the informative videos! Thank you for showing new divers how to become a great scuba diver! Much appreciated!
Thank you for watching David.
Alec
Thanks Alec, I was wondering about the difference. I started diving in the ‘70’s and have not been diving for a number of years. I’m getting back into diving and upgrading equipment and this is great information!
Glad to help
One more clear and complete explonation. Many thanks Mr. Pierce!
Glad to hear that Mixa. Thanks for watching.
A
Thanks for a GREAT instructional video on this Alec! My local LDS (the owner himself) tried to explain the > 3500psi &
I got you on a good day eh? ("Eh" is Canadian for 'huh')
It really is quite simple but some people can complicate anything.
I'm glad I was able to help.
Alec
How is it after 15 years diving I’ve never come across your vids! Bloody brilliant and loving your style.
Wow, thank you! Maybe its because I don't advertise, ask for subscriptions/likes or $$$. Guess I'm crazy but this is how I want to share my life's diving experiences with others. Thanks for watching.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thanks for your generosity.
Well Done Alec. Informative, straight to the point and just enough flair to make me chuckle. Thanks!
If you learned something and had a laugh, thats good for me.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Thanks for that great video 😃. Your shows are pure entertainment.
DIN: Deutsche Industrie Norm which means, that it’s a German Industrial Standard.
Doesn’t matter much and it’s just an addition for those who wanna know.
For us Germans, the DIN is more appropriate because the connector is more compact and practical. The O-Ring is attached to the connector, so YOU YOURSELF have to take care about its good condition.
You helped me a lot to understand the whys and stated some really interesting facts.
For instance:
- 3442 psi 237,31 bars (we’re offered tanks with either 200, 232 or 300 bars)
- it’s funny that they might really put a stamp in the bottleneck according to the valve, which after all is the reeeeeaal bottleneck. Almost ironic
Another thing what kind of bothers me is the designation of tanks:
The effective volume of gas in the tank depends directly on the pressure. That means 80 cft or 2264 liters is only related to 2960 psi or 204 bars in a 11,1 liter tank. You can do the maths yourself and find some errors not only because I left out the decimals 😂, but it’s really confusing.
Rise the pressure by one third and a 80 cft tank transforms to a 106 cft tank.
In my opinion, clear technical facts are always best, such as:
- volume in liters
- maximum pressure capability
So you have your SPG to calculate the effective amount of gas inside the tank. Just to keep things simple.
Sorry, I wrote way to much, when all I wanted to say is THANKS 😂😂😂😂
DIN _ Deutsches Institut für Normung (German Institut for Standardization), has nothing to do with industry
zimt1 Hey 👋. Thanks for the hint. I didn’t realize that they actually founded an association out of it back in 2017. So the name changed once again on 22nd of December 2017 from what I said was correct to what you say is indeed correct 😆. We always have to see the whole story I guess. Maybe the name stays like that now and forever.
But still... we can’t forget, what it came from and that’s factually industrial standardization. Many manufacturers turned into industries. All the simplification, cost reduction and mass production came from industrialization in the first place. So the term „NORM“ will always be directly related to industries.
Absolutely correct, I was close though.
Alec
Just a little addendum to Alec’s comment on DIN valves-there are actually two kinds of DIN valve. The Pro Valve like he shows in the video is a 200 bar valve-used for a maximum pressure of around 3000 psi. It easily converts back and forth with the insert he shows.
There is also a 300 bar DIN valve. This is a higher pressure valve and does NOT convert to a K valve with an insert. The hole where the regulator screws into is deeper on the 300 bar, and while the insert will thread in, it won’t seat properly, and your yoke first stage won’t fit-it’ll be too short.
Hope this helps someone.
I simply refer to them as the short/low or long/high DIN threads. You are right doubt the pressure differences and that the 300 bar cannot be converted into a yoke (above the max pressure a yoke can take). Thanks for watching and sharing this information.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter, I always loved your videos. Always good information to have.
So as a rec diver primarily who will learn tech and side mount in the coming years should I get the 300bar DIN? how easy is it to find tanks in Indo/PP/TH/APAC in general?
@@MrRagool As a diver who's looking to move into tech diving, you should definitely get a DIN regulator. All regulators can handle well above 300 bar of pressure. It's only the Yoke connector that limits the regulator to 232 bar as yo can't secure a Yoke in a way that it can deal with 300 bar. The o-ring will pop out. With DIN the o-ring is secured in the valve and has no pay to pop out.
If you have a Yoke regulator already, have your local dive shop check if they can swap out the Yoke assembly for a DIN assembly. That way you don't have to buy a whole new regulator set.
As always, super-great. Used your advise with great pleasure. Thanks a million, Karl.
This is your 7th comment about 7 different videos in less than 10 hours Karl.
What are you a binge watcher/!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alec
Nice explanation. :-)
There are a few more things to consider. Many tech divers prefer, rightly or wrongly, DIN as they are less likely to have the 1st stage's connection knocked in overhead environments (i.e. wreck penetration or cave diving).
In the past, I prefered A-Clamp (as I know it) or Yoke or Int. as I've found it easier to quickly connect or remove the 1st stage. However, I am now using DIN.
Here in the UK, there is now a difference between pillar valves intended for 232 BAR (3364 psi) tanks/cylinders to the pillar valves intended for 300 BAR (4351 psi). As you've already mentioned, the 300 BAR valves are all going to be DIN. New valves also have a different number of threads and a deeper hole for the 1st. The 1st stage now comes with an extra 'nipple' the O-Ring is on the connection. If the charging whips have this nipple too, it prevents non-300 Bar tanks from being filled to such pressures, but a 300 Bar tank can be filled on the 200/232 Bar whip.
Finally, O-Rings. Yep, it's an obvious one for anyone who runs a dive centre, but it can be an issue for the unwary.
With the Yoke system, the O-Ring is on the tank pillar valve. Those tanks in a busy resort are likely to be used once a day, every day of the year. They can and do fail. Who is responsible for the tanks? The dive resort. So they have to ensure that the DMs and Instructors have plenty of spare O-Rings. Depending on the quality and number of people on the boat, they could be changing 3 or 4 a week quite easily.
With the DIN system, those pillar valves don't have an O-Ring (Ok all have one where the valves screw into the tank, but I'm referring to where the 1st stage connects). The O-Ring is on the 1st stage. Ok, if the 1stage has been hired, then it'll be down to the resort to replace one more, but they tend to last better on DIN 1st stages.
Also if a customer brings their own 1st stage, then it isn't the resort's O-Ring that needs to be changed.
Ok, I'm sure that a reputable dive resort is not going to let an O-Ring spoil your dive. If you've had your regulators services properly, then that O-Ring will have been changed as a matter of course, so in theory, you should be fine and the O-Ring won't fail so quickly.
Safe diving everyone!
I love that you started diving the year Sea Hunt began!
Sea Hunt was my inspiration to become a diver like Mike Nelson. Go diving, catch bad guys and get the girl too. I am the largest collector of Sea Hunt memorabilia in the world. Maybe watch my Sea Hunt Remembered playlist to see the old days again.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I love the Sea Hunt show so much, it's an obsession. They don't make TV like that today. Absolutely brilliant.
Wow this really helped me out explaining what it all is and how it's used!! Thank you!! I looked through a few articles and videos but I didn't understand it till I watched yours! So seriously! Thank you for explaining it so well!!
Now I'm happy!
Thanks Jennifer.
Alec
DIN==Better. More compact, more secure connection, can be field converted to yoke, higher pressure support, you know your O-ring status before the dive. Only drawback is if you run into yoke only tanks w/o the pro-valves, and that's not a fault of DIN... :) Maybe we need a yoke confiscation program to get everyone converted over!
That would be interesting. There are a heck of a lot more yokes in use worldwide.
Alec
What’s a pro valve?
@@MrRagool a Pro Valve is the same thing Mr Peirce refers to as a conversion valve in this video. The tank valve has a plug you may add or remove to easily switch between yoke and DIN. Pro Valve is just the trade name. I know Faber puts these on their hp steel cylinders.
You sound like one of those annoying divers on the boat.
Do you own shearwater as well ?
Agree that DIN is better in almost every aspect.
- support for higher pressure
- takes less space
- the o-ring belongs to the first stage. So you are not dependent on the rental o-ring that has been out in the sun the entire season.
- the yoke can be more fragile. To metal failures.
I think yoke is slightly easier / faster to connect. But can’t think of any other positives.
Thank you for the video... very informative. I was hoping that you would have explained the 200 bar vs 300 bar.
Great explanation Alec!! There is something I found very interesting, maybe it will help some others divers too!! So, I have a 300 bar din reg, and one time I tried to screw into a 232 bar tank valve, but I couldn’t screw all the way, I was very confused. It turns out that if you have a 300 bar din reg, you can use it with a 232 din valve or a 300 din tank valve. BUT it is not safe to use a 232 din reg with a 300 din tank valve. It turns out the best way to do it, is to use a din to yoke adaptor(232 bar) and use on any yoke valve, plus use it with din value( without the adapter of course), best travel friendly option. My only concern is that, when I use my 300 bar reg with a 232 bar tank valve, the threads that doesn’t screw all the way in really bothers me, and it seems like it is not very secure. Can you address this issue ? Thank you :)
Actually Price, it's pretty simple. Clear your mind of all the confusing details and start over.
DIN tank valves come in 2 versions - 200bar or 300bar.
The reason for the difference is obvious - the 200bar valve is for a tank with a pressure rating of 200bar while the 300bar valve is for the higher pressure 300bar tanks.
Now, most late model regulators will come equipped with a 300bar DIN fitting. Earlier models came with a 200bar fitting. It's really academic since all regulator made in the last 25 years regulators will easily handle 300bar.
So, to your dilemma, your 300bar regulator fitting will fit into either a 200bar or 300bar tank valve. That makes sense since a regulator designed for 300bar can safely be used in a 200bar tank.
You've already noticed that a 200bar fitting will not screw into a 300bar valve and again the reason is sensible. You would not want a device that that is rated for 200bar to fit into a 300bar tank.
The valves and valves are easy to tell apart. The 300bar has a longer thread so the shorter 200bar reg fitting will not bottom out and seal. The exposed threads are not an issue. The O-Ring on the bottom seals and at 200bar the threads that are inserted into the vale are more than enough to make it safe.
I hope that clears it up. It's a good system and quite safe.
Take care.
Alec
Alec Peirce Scuba that make so much sense, tbh!! Thank you Alec ;)))
@@pricediver There are no 232 bar DIN regulators. All DIN regulators can handle, and will fit a 300 bar DIN valve. The only difference is that you DIN regulator will screw all the way into a 300 bar DIN valve, and will stick out a little more on a 232 bar DIN valve.
Only ring inserts will not fit a 300 bar DIN valve. They screw in too deep, and you can't clamp a Yoke connector to it, or you don't screw it in deep enough, and the valve will leak like an SOB.
Great episode Pierce, I use an Aqualung Mistral 2005 model double hose regulator that's a DIN connection, I had put one of those DIN to yoke adapters for my 80cf tank, LOL I had no idea what I had, learning from you Pierce, just made my double hose regulator even more awesome! Thanks
thanks for sharing all your experience with us, I've learned alot! it never dawned on me that you were doing these for free
I've been at home with a broken shoulder for a while and watched your videos. My shoulder is fine now and i still watch your videos. Thank you so much for each and every one of them. You and Kevin are great! You guys have helped me trough a tough time. Thank you!!!!
About this vid:
Again very well told, and much appreciated. But why do you seem to lean towards the old, lesser performing system? You're mostly progressive, going with modern tech in all your other vids, and sometimes even laugh (and have me laughing along) at the old ways, whilst still showing respect for the ways it had to be done back then.
I've been around the world diving, and learned on yokes, and used them on most rental gear, for most of my dives. But now that time has come to get my own, i didn't give yoke any thought at all, thanks in part to your vids.
In my opinion, DIN should be the standard for all first stages, and yoke converters should be supplied untill yoke-only-tanks and their valves have all been scrapped. I don't want to sound harsh, but yoke is no way forward. We don't have J-valves anymore, even though half the world used them at some point. I have to respectfully disagree with you, in my opinion DIN is better.
Thank you very much for all your efforts on youtube.
Mechanikos
Thanks for your comments J&M.
And I appreciate what you are saying but, it's a bit like telling the British that right-hand drive is archaic and obsolete so they should change over like the rest of the world.
Yoke is fine. DIN is fine. The choice is based on your diving needs.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Well said and much appreciated. Liking your own gear is nice part of scuba too, right?
Again, thank you for all of your vids. They really help me, and probably others, with picking gear, and the're enjoyable as well.
B.t.w. do we ever get to Kevin on screen?
Great video again Alec!
Unfortunately last weekend I couldn’t dive since the shop had forgot to put the insert in for my yoke regs, so I learnt to always check whether the tank was for Yoke or for DIN regulators.
I actually bought a DIN-To-Yoke Insert afterwards which cost $10 (AUD) and then a set of Allen Keys from Bunnings (a tool/hardware/gardening warehouse store chain similar to Home Depot in the US/Canada) for $5 so next time I don’t get caught short.
I definitely think the insert is the easiest and cheapest option for using Yoke regs with a DIN tank valve.
Agree. Buy one tank valve and with a convertible insert, have 2 options. Another advantage with the inserts is if a o-ring blows, just unscrew and replace with a spare and dive. Fast and saves trying to safely pull out a bad o-ring when in rush. Thanks for sharing Andrew.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter my pleasure Alec!
I never see Yoke regs here in slovakia. All of our LDS use DINs :D so when i first saw yoke i was confused... but honestly, it doesnt matter to me what you are using if you can manage an "emergency" situation underwater. unless we go cavediving together, then i need to know what you are using :D
Thanks alec! You make me smarter and smarter every video
Thanks for watching Sammy.
If you pick up even one little idea or if I make you smile, my life is complete!
Take care.
Alec
Good or better - Well.
You're of course right - you should be careful using the word "better". However ...
I know that YOKE has been there forever - and that it is a well tested technology, but here is my 50 cents.
1. Yes, as you mention in the video - DIN is approved for higher pressure. If you want to take advantage of that - DIN is not better - it's the only option.
2. With the YOKE system - the O-ring is part of the tank valve This means that when you're on a diving boat and using air supplied by the boat, every time you mount your regulator for the next dive - you need to inspect the o-ring for damage, wear, cracks, etc. And every time you change you have to check carefully. You do not however stand there on the boat and pry out the O-ring to check for cracks on the back and so on - but you should - shouldn't you? After all - this is the system that keeps you alive under water.
3. With the DIN system - the O-ring is mounted on your regulator - it's yours (given of course that you're diving with your own regulator). If you have just recently changed and lubricated your O-ring, no one else has been using or abusing it, no Open Water Student has 30 minutes ago misplaced his regulator and damaged the valve O-ring, you can be pretty confident that your O-ring is okay. At least you know that it's not 3 years old dried out rubber. Of course you always check before mounting your regulator, but you know its history. Problem here of course being that the diving boat probably don't supply tanks with DIN valves :-(
4. Space. I dive with a Mares MR12ST 1st stage, which has the yoke screw on the end of the 1st stage cylinder. Most of the time my regulator kit is placed in a regulator bag and occasionally its taken out and used for diving, but lets face it - most of the time it's being stored somewhere. Now, I travel with at least my Reg and my computer - the rest I can rent. I just came home from Thailand where I had my luggage in a backpack.And to be honest - trying to fit that regulator bag into the backpack with that darn YOKE pointing out in a completely different direction is just a pain. I know this is not a technical issue - but it sure is a practical one.
So - I would definitely say that having a DIN regulator and a YOKE adapter gives you the best possibilities as you can use your reg for EVERY situation, be that high pressure, space savings, trust in your life-saving O-ring, and so on.
Maybe DIN isn't better, maybe DIN is a german/european standard and not US, but then again - what gives you the most options ?
So yes - I have recently ordered a DIN conversion kit for my MR12ST 1st stage.
DIN does have safety advantages. The greater pressure capacity can reduce the risk of a rupture in case of overfilling when the tanks are attached to a compressor. Since the O-ring in a DIN is in the regulator, rather than on the exterior of the valve as in the yoke, it’s less likely to be lost or damaged during transport. Tests have also shown the DIN to be more resilient to impact compared to a yoke, which can be knocked off, though it may be an unlikely, but not impossible, scenario.
You nailed it, Divemaster Alec!👍
Thank you Lupus.
A
precious infamation , easy explain. Respect ! Mr. Pierce
Thanks Bubble.
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Alec
Thanks. Got yourself a new sub. Nobody seems to be able to explain things the way you do sir.
Thanks for watching Duan. I hope you pick up some useful ideas.
Alec
Brilliant...I am now no longer confused.
I would say most use din and din is standard. Deutsche Institut Norm. Din is safer and can handle more pressure. Europe, Asia and middle east use din. From experience I have seen a few people have issues with their leaky yoke setup. I for one prefer to bring my own o ring. Fresh and serviced. Accept your argument about "better" though. Having said that, for cold water diving here in Switzerland, yokes are banned. We need two valves for safety incase one freezes. No one here uses yokes here because they are not allowed.
Hello Alec.
Another great vídeo and Always clarifying some questions we have. I just wished you had talked about diference between DIN 200 and DIN 300 and the conflicts with adapters, limitations on using one and another. Maybe you can add that topic to one of you next vídeos.
Cheers.
Boy, there's lots more about yokes and DINs bt I have to keep the videos reasonable. Maybe I'll re-visit the topic.
Thanks for watching. Alec
maybe a simple mention that not all DIN tanks can take a yoke insert retrofit (only shorter DIN200 ones) would have been useful as older DIN cannot...
Than you for an excellent summary of the differences, that clarified a lot I had been unsure about for years. I feel a lot less dumb now, ha ha.
Thanks Reid. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Alec
You are so correct I bought a Sherwood Reg DIN a month ago and just 3 days ago dove 2 cenotes in Tulum Mex and the next day 2 dive in Mahahual Mex and out of ten dive stores in Tulum and about 8 in Mahahual not one dive store had DIN valves so I did not have an adapter and many of the dive shops did not either but eventually got one but your advice on this with specific areas of the world was spot on
Wow! Sounds like great diving John.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Great info. Exactly what I needed
Glad it helped.
A
Very informative, as always. Thanks Alec :)
Glad you liked it!
A.
I need to buy a regulator kit hesitating din or yoke but this video has helped me damn a lot ! Thank you :)
I'm glad I helped.
Alec
Awesome tech tips! I have made a lot of purchase decisions based on your video. Please keep up the good work!
Great video, sir. I went with a DIN regulator paired with a yoke adapter. HOWEVER, my adapter came with a screw knob too short for any yoke cylinder valve I’ve ever came across. Isn’t yoke valves standard? Do they come in different sizes?
The yoke thread is standard, the length is not. I have seen very short and a few long ones. It varies my manufacturer so if you looking for a longer yoke knob, shop around on Google or ask your LDS. Its not an unusual item so then should find you a longer one.
A
Good lord, that was a lot of information, and I understood it! Thank you!!!
Glad you picked up something new.
Alec
Brilliant information. Thank you sir. You've saved me a major headache.
anyway.. thanks for the explanation mr peirce, now im quite certain to get the DIN first stage as im planning on doing cave diving in the future
Welcome Boo Bear.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Hi Alec.. we’re currently on a dive trip with our new DIN regulators. We chose DIN as the basis for the first stage for several reasons, but we do have yoke adaptors. We’ve found that it’s very difficult to screw the DIN fitting into the rental tanks they have here (they are very well used for sure). Maybe one out of three to four tanks attach well. What advice do you have to help us fit the DIN regulators? I don’t think lubricants are the answer, but appreciate any advice. Worst case, we can abandon DIN while here and just switch to yoke with our adaptors. But we’d like to make the DIN work if able. Thanks!
Hard turning a DIN means the tank threads have likely been bashed around (sorry, aggressively handled). It's the one negative with rental tanks and DIN's I know of. As long as you can hand tighten the DIN fully into the tank, its OK to use as the o-ring is in the end of the tank. If no air leaks, should be good. Never use a tool to force a DIN onto a tank, that's when your good gear gets damaged by the bad rental gear. Should the threading be more than hand tight, skip DIN and go yoke for the trip. Saves damaging your threads and you're there for fun not stress. Take care and thanks for watching.
A
Ah, I just had my new 1st stage converted to YOKE as it came with a DIN as standard.
My thinking was that every boat I went on in Egypt all used YOKE on Ali cylinders so the cylinders I'm guessing would only be filled near 232 bar anyways.
So if I ever come across a DIN cylinder valve .... Id check pressure inside was suitable for YOKE and put my own YOKE insert into the DIN threaded opening .
All I need to carry is the little DIN to YOKE adapter and an Allen key , which is smaller than carrying the bigger converter to go on a DIN first stage to make it YOKE compatible .
The Yoke fitting has been around for years so until I feel I need more pressure ... jobs a gooden right ?
thanks for the vid !
I am learning tec and side mount so I am going to DIN. For me it is not just about the high pressure but about knobs and entanglements.
The DIN takes up less space and when searching for shutoff it much simpler in stressful situations also there is nothing protruding on the yoke side of the tank. In side-mount if you go valves up there is nothing to scrape or get caught if a line runs across the bottom of tank.
Good thoughts Chris. Any equipment configuration must be suited to the dive and diver.
Alec
Really good video, now I get it. Thanks
Exactly what I needed to know, thank you. I inherited a scuba bottle but no regulator of any kind.
Glad it helped.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
What a perfect explanation. Thank you!
You're very welcome Elliot.
Damn. That was a great video. Many thanks as I learned something again.
Glad you liked it.
A
DIN stands for Duetsche Industrie Norm ,greets Dirk
German Industry of Normal
I like the idea that putting insert in to make din valve to yoke valve. Sees cheaper and easier ?
Awesome video! Love the tech tips! Really cleared a lot of questions. THANK YOU!!!
Thanks for watching Juan.
Alec
When I took my advanced open water course in the Florida keys I used a yoke valve with a 3500 psi 100cf aluminum tank
Technically, the tank pressure was 3500psi, it ought to have been a DIN. But no harm done obviously.
Alec
Very nice video. Nicely explained for all divers.
Thanks Reza.
I want divers to be able to make informed decisions about what's best for them - not based on bias from a store owner or dive buddy. I hope you got something from it.
Alec
You have a wonderful way of explaining things. Never elitist, never condescending and always the truth.
Simple and clear.
Thank you
Welcome 😊
Thank you for keeping it simple. Great video👍
I can make it very technical but what's the point? Only a dozen people would get it!
I'm trying to get divers to understand more about their gear. I think it will make you a better diver, or at least more comfortable.
Take care.
Aec
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Yoke o rings have also been known for bursting at low tempratures(7C>)
I recall you talking about DIN200 vs DIN300 during some episode (side note) but I can't find it now... this should have really be mentioned here as it's so as simple as you make it sound, unless you have a modern valve and
"DIN stands for ... douche.." I LOLed. That's why you're awesome Mr Peirce! Greetings from Singapore =)
Interesting - one would argue DIN actually IS better in every way then International. Its more compact, lighter, supports more pressure and probably most importantly - its much more sturdy - drop the bottle on a DIN 1st stage, no worries - drop it on the yoke valve, you might have trouble.
You list valid considerations but the #1 reason is higher tank pressures. Both work well so it's up to the diver what works better for them. Thanks for sharing Matija.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you for providing heaps of great SCUBA information to the wide world! Your knowledge and manner of sharing are both much appreciated!
Concerning DIN/international - one could argue yoke types big advantage is just how widespread it is. One would be better of counting on it beeing used wherever he goes diving.
Here are my views about Din and Yoke.
1. If one is buying a new regulator, I think buying one with a DIN first stage is more practical since converting a DIN to Yoke is easier.
2. I think DIN connections are more secure than Yoke connections, especially if one will dive in environments such as places with lots of overhead. A Yoke connection is more likely to "break" off if hit vs a DIN connection.
If you dive in a region where DIN is common, you'd be perfectly correct.
If you dive in the western hemisphere, North America & the Caribbean, DIN is not used.
Alec
DIN stands for Deutsche Industrie Norm, and I think its wonderful
It is a great connection.
A
Got me one of the Apeks DIN to Yoke adapters for my Apeks DIN reg to use for the cylinders of the scuba club I'm part of which have DIN cylinders but they have the Yoke converter installed. Works a treat :>
Good. Now you are covered wherever you're diving.
Take care.
Alec
I only had DIN valve tanks other than my pony tank. I liked that I'd only take 1 on 2 tank dive boat trip and still have more air left when I was actively diving. 😒 I sold off my 2 hi pressure steel tanks and just kept my AL tanks. I'll miss having them no weight belt needed most of the time. I was able to dive with my drysuit without any lead. Probably not now.
I'm trying to get back diving now.... Many life changes.
Alec, you’re the greatest.
Thank you Adam.
I prefer DIN for a few reasons. One is that the yoke knob is similar to the tank valve knob. This can cause issues in an emergency, turning on or off a pony bottle, or using doubles. I also prefer having the o-ring on the reg and not the tank. This puts the onus of o-ring maintenance on me and not the owner of the tank (possibly someone else.)
One more possible tech tip topic is 200 BAR DIN vs 300 BAR DIN, and how you should buy DIN regs and tanks.
agreed and i have also heard stories about yoke valves being knocked off tanks. Plus also din is just more streamlined and better designed.
A yoke regulator could potentially get knocked off a tank but not the valve. A yoke valve and a DIN valve are identical and neither is more susceptible to getting knocked off. As the Devil's advocate, I have seen several DIN valves that have sustained a bump on the top. That was enough to crush the valve slightly, hardly noticeable but enough to make it impossible to install the regulator.
Again, I don't like the statement that a DIN valve is better. It is essential in some circumstances, but better. That's a judgement call. Alec
Very helpful!
Much appreciated!
Nicely done, sir. Very informative & frankly highly entertaining!
So, to be clear--DIN to yoke conversion on 1st stage can be performed by diver, whereas you suggest a first-stage yoke to DIN conversion be performed by a dive equipment technician? (Generally speaking, of course. All for entertainment purposes).
DIN all the way baby!!
Oh yes.
Isn't DIN also more safe when it comes to diving cold water (due to possible air leakage caused by o-rings of the yoke valve)? At least that was what we were told when diving in Iceland's 1°C water. And out of curiosity: are there tec divers with yoke regulators?
A poorly maintained O-Ring will breakdown and leak. That's for sure.
However, to compare a DIN valve to a poorly maintained yoke valve is hardly fair.
A yoke valve in good condition with a fresh O-Ring is no more likely to leak that a DIN valve.
A DIN valve is much more susceptible to permanent damage from even a light hit on the top. It crushes very easily. I've seen many of them. But I wouldn't say that DINs are bad because of that.
ALL tech divers started on yoke (in North America anyway). Most use DIN but for a variety of reasons - not necessarily safety.
Alec
Hi Alec, I don't fully understand the logic of a max pressure for yoke regs being 3500 psi. How would it be possible fit a yoke reg on any tank valve at higher pressure? 3442 psi is 237 bar. This is above a standard 232 bar rating for most dive tanks. Above that you are looking at 300 bar rated tanks which require a 300 bar reg. The two valves and regs are deliberately incompatible, with a 232 bar DIN reg having five threads and thus not forming a seal with a 7 thread 300 bar DIN valve (although the converse is possible and safe). By inference you are suggesting that a yoke valve is as safe as a DIN valve when used on a 232 Bar valve. What is the evidence for this? Are there any stats? tx & rgds, Ric
I suppose I could have said it this way: a yoke is designed to safely work up to 3500psi while a DIN can safely handle pressures above that. The point is that the technical difference between the two is strictly the pressure of the tank. If there are other differences that make one or the other more or less desireable, they are personal preferences or opinions, NOT technical issues. There may well be other differences and those differences may well influence a divers opinion or decision about which to use but, the technical difference is the tank pressure.
While the two different valves and corressponding regualtors are designed to be incompatible, divers will ofetn use adapters to overcome that fact. Just as you can moun a DIN regulator on a 3000psi tank, it is also quite possible to mount a yoke regulator on a 3500psi tank.
I do like Dave's point about having the reg/valve sealing O-ring on the diver's regulator (as with DIN) where it is less likely to be subject to damage and wear and more likley to be serviced regualrly. I never thought about that.
Thanks guys for your comments. Alec
i know this video is older, but i saw another video where they say din is better(sorry couldn't come with a better word).one reason the oring is on the din regulator(your responsibility) and not the tank(maintained by the dive shop). if i had to buy a new regulator i'd like to switch to din. being from canada i currently have yoke and dive the Caribbean where most of the tank setups are for yokes. my question is can all the yoke tank setups have there yoke adapters removed via an allen key to be able to setup din or are they welded in place.
i'm assuming that all valves are din valves with a yoke valve adapter. i take it i'm mistaken.
In the Caribbean, almost all tank valves are dual yoke/DIN capable. They get a lot of European divers who need DIN threads. In all my dive travels, in the last 10 years every trip had at least one DIN diver and they had no problem with tank valves. Go with what you like and travel safe Duane.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter thanks for your response. you've taught me more about the equipment of diving than any other vids. i can have a knowledgeable conversation of dive equipment. thanks
@@dtt3426 If you see a valve that has an o-ring embedded in smooth metal, it's a Yoke valve only. You'll need a DIN to Yoke adapter to use your regulator with that cylinder. If you see a small bezel outside the o-ring (and a hex shape on the inside), it's a convertible valve and you can take the insert out so you can fit your DIN reg.
Some DIN valves are deeper. These are rated to 300 bar, and will never have an insert as the insert will screw in too far. This is to prevent divers putting a 232 bar Yoke on a 300 bar cylinder (even if the cylinder is only filled to 232 bar or less). You DIN regulator will fit those valves just fine.
It should also be noted that most regulators can be converted from Yoke to DIN (or the other way around, but I don't know why you would want that) by a certified technician. They'll take the entire Yoke assembly out, and replace it with a DIN assembly. So for those who regret purchasing a Yoke in this day and age, you can correct your mistake without the need for buying a whole new regulator again.
Love your videos! Qucik question, we are pretty new to diving and go your new DIN regulators (MK25) and wanted to be clear on something. If it can handle more BARs of pressure, that would mean more air capaicity in the tank correct? If not what is the difference between lower and higher pressures?
DIN regs are rated for 200 and 300 bar or standard vs high pressure tanks. Higher pressure may mean more capacity but also depends on tank size (eg a 12L vs 15L tank). Hope this helps John.
Great video on Din. I bought a DIN regulator and am buying a DIN to yoke adapter as recommended by you to use with various K value tanks. As you mention that adapter adds another two inches (toward the back of your head) through the conversion process. What do you think about turning the tank 180 degrees and then mounting the regulator/adapter combination facing away from the head and then re-positioning all the hoses to their appropriate position?
That's a lot of fussing around to eliminate a problem that may not even exist. Do you bang your head on the regulator regularly? If so, give it a try.
If not, quit worrying and have fun.
Alec
Only occasionally. Maybe I will re-position the tank a bit. But conceptually there is nothing wrong with this approach, is there?
Nope. You can mount the reg any way you want, whatever works for you.
You might get some funny looks but maybe, like me, you get funny looks anyway.
Alec
Dear Mr. Peirce
I have a question:
The YOKE mount first stage regulator works on 230bar pressure.
The DIN mount first stage regulator- on 300bars pressure.
If I have YOKE mount first stage regulator can I convert it to DIN?
For the mechanical aspect for that it’s clear- I have purchased the necessary kit for that.
I mean:
is there any adjustments needed to perform to the regulator its self due to the higher working pressure ?
Best regards:
Peter B.
No. The input pressure is irrelevant to the operation of the reg - assuming the regulator is made to accept the higher pressure. If your reg is less than 10 years old, you're fine.
Alec
Alec Peirce Scuba ,
Thank you for your reply!
I am taking for Scubapro MK 25 first stage.
I believe there will be no problem?
Peter Boynov No problem at all.
@@peterboynov1317 Except, get an authorized technician to perform the swap. They have the tools for it, and if something goes wrong, it's on them.
The Mk25 is an expensive piece of kit. If you mess up, you're probably going to get it fixed for far more than the cost of having the swap done for you.
Thanks for the great videos with such a fresh style, and for sharing your experience! It's like having a nice relaxed chat with someone that knows A LOT :)). Nice! By the way, in Europe, at least in Spain, I've seen both DIN and yoke ("international" is what yoke's called in Spain/Spanish) when renting tanks, probably even more yoke than DIN I'd say... except when the business is run by Germans ;P.
Also, even when yoke is good enough, I think it's fair to say that DIN system is probably safer, plus it's much easier to change to yoke in case of need. So, getting a DIN+adapter seems to be a safer, more flexible choice when considering to buy a 1st stage... so I wouldn't consider getting a yoke reg anyway... Keep going with the videos! They are awesome!!
Thanks for your comments Luis.
I suppose I agree with your sentiments about DIN vs yoke (and about Germans! I can say that since my mom was German).
In North America and most areas (hence International??) the yoke is all you see so despite the possible advantages of DIN, the yoke is not about to disappear.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Yes, international as it's more widely spread... and DIN stands for Deutsche Industrie Norm, the german national standard organization... that's why germans do use it all the time :))
Hi Alec :) Thank you for all the vids! I'm looking to purchase a regulator with a first stage. I plan to be diving either in Asia or in North America, but might occasionally be diving in Europe. Would you recommend a DIN first stage + converter? I've heard that there may be problems using a converter. Also saw a comment about different DIN first stages. Could you possibly make a video about it in the future? Thanks!
I did a video about the DIN converter.
If you plan to dive where DIN is common I suggest you convert your reg to a DIN fitting.
Then get a spin-on converter for when you're diving in yoke country.
I know of no problems with this setup, a DIN reg with a yoke converter, if the components are in good shape and the installation is proper.
Good luck.
Alec
Thank you, Alec! Appreciate the comment! :) Have a wonderful day!!
You are the best! Thank you for the information
Thanks for watching William.
Alec
Alec, is there any concern with QC at tank manufacturing in terms of overpressurizing a steel tank marked for 3440 PSI? My thinking is this: when a tank is stamped with a 3500 PSI rating, the manufacturer (may have) tested it for failure at that pressure. If a tank has a flaw and would have failed at 3480 PSI, it would still pass QC for 3440 PSI, but would not handle 3500.
Is it really as safe as you imply to take a tank stamped for 3440 PSI up to 3500?
It's my belief that a tank, steel or aluminum, will withstand much higher pressure than the stamped pressure with no real ill affects. Steel tanks in particular will take much higher pressure and not be damaged.
However, the stamped pressure takes into account not only the safety of the tank itself but also the valve. The valve is threaded into the tank and is subject to extreme pressures as well. The valve mechanism itself plus the threads must be considered. Tanks, as you know, are fitted with a safety blow-out that is designed to release the pressure if the tank pressure gets too high. I'm not sure why you are asking but I suggest that the manufacturers have good technical reasons for any such pressure rating - tank, valve or safety.
Also, a tank stamped for 3442 can have a yoke-type valve while at 3500 it must use a DIN valve only.
Overpressure of a tank may, I say may, contribute to increased stretching of the tank and thus premature hydro test failure.
Hi Alec. You make things look easy. Question, I found a new Scubapro MK21 Regulator at a good price, but it's a DIN. If I put the DIN to TIN Adapter it would be forever since I dive in Cozumel. Wouldn't it damage it? your advice is very important. Thank you.
Most tanks in Cozumel have convertible tank valves for DIN and yoke as many divers come from North America and Europe. Just ask your diving provider to confirm convertible tanks inserts. Should not need a DIN to yoke converter in Cozumel.
A.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter True for the most part, but I did get use out of my DIN to yoke converter when I was diving there, not all every tank is convertible, there are indeed yoke tank rentals in Cozumel as well, and most dive shops source their tanks from the same tank rental company(as far as I know only one dive shop on the island actually has its own compressors, and they're the islands' tech dive shop, and even they also use the rental tank company for rec tanks).
The world has changed since this video was made. Most tanks now come with a pro valve that allows either reg. I still have one din tank that won't take an insert. Din is better as it can handle higher pressure without leaking. A din reg can easily be converted to yoke whereas yoke is more difficult to convert to din. You also don't have to play Russian roulette every time you hook up a resort tank like using yoke. The sealing oring is yours and you maintain it.
Thanks for sharing Lars.
A
Great videos Alec, I'm wondering why it took me so long to find them
Hi again Alec. there Should I buy a DIN with a converter to the yoke? I'll be diving more in the southern asian countries. Or just the International Yoke style. for Rec. diving.
DIN seem so much more secure.
IMO, buy DIN since you can always screw on a Yoke adapter easily vs converting a Yoke connection to DIN. And I also feel DIN connections are more secure than Yoke.
ok thanks DIN it is
Excellent Alec. Thank you sir
Thanks for watching Wally.
Alec
I'm currently working on a screw on yoke .... I got this ! Haha
Hi - what is your view of the latest regulators which automatically seal themselves when not under pressure ? Is the sealing reliable ?
Several big companies have introduced that mechanism over the years, It's not a new nor novel idea at all. So far, no one have found a system that works perfectly. Oceanic had a simple system but it had some reliability problems and has been discontinued. US Divers has a similar system but it's considerably more complicated (more parts). We'll have to wait to see how it measures up.
There is just no better way to keep water out of your regulator than good diver practices. Even with a sealing system in place, a sloppy diver will have problems so I'm not sure if it's worth pursuing an automatic seal system. I suppose it's like an automatic directional system on a car that will start your turn signals when you decide to turn a corner or maybe when your GPS tells you to turn up ahead. Great idea, not inconceivable, but certainly prone to problems because of sloppy drivers.
Alec
What is the danger of having a yoke regulator connected to a tank with a pressure over 3500 psi? The other day a guy was «presented» with a tank with 320 bar (that's 4600 psi!!!). He has a 7 threads DIN regulator, however we questioned what would have happened if it was a yoke. Could the regulator be expelled like a bullet? And what could happened if it was a 5 threads DIN?
Actually it's not the yoke that's the problem. A modern yoke will easily handle the pressure but the O-Ring in a yoke-style valve is not completely encircled by the valve face and it can extrude (squeeze out) under high pressure. It might not. But it might.
Technically, at 3500 psi or higher he could only use a 7 thread DIN. The 2 different DIN valves are for different pressure and they are NOT interchangeable for safety. A 200 BAR DIN regulator thread is too short to reach the bottom of a 300 BAR DIN valve so the O-Ring can't seal. You can thread the reg into the valve but when you turn on the air it just pours out. You can use a 300 BAR DIN regulator in a 200 BAR valve but not vice versa.
320 BAR is equivalent to 4500 psi. While not an exact equivalency (1 BAR = 14.5 psi), similar North American tanks are rated at 4500 psi. Generally we only see them as a fibreglass reinforced aluminum cylinder as used by firefighters (Scott Pacs) or paintballers.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Good day Mr. Alec. On the case where i want to buy the din to yoke adaptor, can i buy any brand of adaptor or do i stick with same the brand as my regulator? Will there be any compatibility issues? Thank you sir
In North America, the yoke is standard (meaning no variations). The DIN has 2 options, normal and high pressure tanks. Normal DIN have 5 threads and the High Pressure DIN tanks have 7 threads. So a yoke to DIN is very common with no compatibility issues for regular tanks. Your store should confirm the DIN threads for the type of tanks your using. Good luck.
A DIN to Yoke adapter is just a hunk of metal. There are no compatibility issues. The adapter screws on to your DIN regulator, and you then clamp it over a Yoke valve. Any brand adapter will fit any brand DIN regulator.
Alec,
Just bought my first Din. Is it ok to mount it 180 degrees or upside down? My helmet hits it when I mount the normal way. I realize I will need to swtich my hoses if I run the reg this way. Didn’t know if it will effect performance of the reg. Thank you
Nope. Doesn't matter at all. The change in pressure is about 1" - negligible. Even if it was much more it would not be an issue.
Mount it so it works for you. That is one of the benefits of DIN.
Good luck.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter You can also mount a Yoke upside down. That's not exclusive to DIN regulators.
I have the Scuba Pro MK25. Does it matter which way I have it oriented on the tank such as the low pressure tubes above the high pressure tubes for performance wise?
Look at my video S03E12, 1st Stage Hose Setup, to see the pro/cons of mounting the 1st stage normal or reversed (hint, not a problem).
Alec
You can even have the valve point sideways, mount the regulator at 90 degrees, and use it as spoke. Not sure why you would want to, but you can. Regulator orientation doesn't hinder its performance. There's pressure on all sides of the regulator, not just the top or bottom.
Damn, I really love your videos.
I appreciate that James. Lots more to come.
question: INT and yoke it's the same thing? What do you think about scoobapro MK25 EVO/A700 Carbon BT Dive Regulator System, INT ? If you will be buying your first regulator you will be choosing DIN over INT? (looks like DIN to yoke conversion it's easier than INT to DIN). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
INT means International and refers to the very popular yoke attachment so yes, INT and yoke are synonymous. I've no idea how or why the INT designation exists when "yoke" works just fine.
There is no place in the world where the yoke won't work. All dive centers worldwide are accustomed too and can accept the yoke. If you think you will be using your regulator on a DIN valve at some point (steel high-pressure tanks is the usual application), then a DIN fitting is worth considering when you purchase a regulator. Otherwise, you will not be disadvantaged by having a yoke only. Most DIN tank valves can be converted to accept a yoke regulator with the insertion of a very cheap, screw-in DIN-to-yoke converter. If you have a DIN regulator and want to use it as a yoke, that's easy too with a screw-on converter but it is much more expensive. The other downside to this adaption is that the regulator becomes somewhat longer and could bump your head depending on its design.
The Scubapro MK25/A700 is a great regulator but, why would you pay an extra $300 -$400 for a shiny black finish. That's the only difference between the carbon model and the normal chrome finish model. Also, the S600 2nd stage is equal in performance to the A700 in every way for less money and less service aggravation. It is the better choice for cold water and dirty water and it is much easier to remove the cover for a thorough cleaning.
Good luck.
Alec
Why S600 it's better (than A700) for cold and dirty water? Because it's easier to clean?
I just saw another video that mentioned 300bar DIN valves have 7 threads vs 5 on those limited to 230 bar… so if I buy a 300bar rated DIN regulator will ai be able to use it with a regular tank after the yoke adapter is removed?
If the tank valve is also rated at 300 bar, then it should mate properly to a 300 bar reg.
A.
300 Bar DIN regulators will fit on all* DIN valves.
The limited 232 bar DIN regulators won't fit on 300 bar DIN valves, but 300 bar DIN regulators will fit on 232 bar DIN valves.
*scuba diving. There's another DIN threading type that is only for medical oxygen tanks, and won't fit a scuba regulator.