DIN Adapters - Scuba Tech Tips: S14E04
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- What do you do when your DIN regulator meets a yoke tank valve? Alec shows how DIN regulators can easily be adapted to yoke tank valves.
Watch my "Alec Peirce at the Ranch" for ranch and home ideas. / @alecpeirceattheranch
**** Alec Peirce Scuba ****
SCUBA TECH TIPS playlists
▶︎ Series 14: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 13: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 12: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 11: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 10: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 9: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 8: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 7: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 6: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 5: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 4: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
▶︎ Series 1, 2 & 3: • Scuba Tech Tips - Seri...
VINTAGE SCUBA playlists
▶︎ Series 9: • Vintage Scuba - Series 9
▶︎ Series 8: • Vintage Scuba - Series 8
▶︎ Series 7: • Vintage Scuba - Series 7
▶︎ Series 6: • Vintage Scuba - Series 6
▶︎ Series 5: • Vintage Scuba - Series 5
▶︎ Series 4: • Vintage Scuba - Series 4
▶︎ Series 3: • Vintage Scuba - Series 3
▶︎ Series 2: • Vintage Scuba - Series 2
▶︎ Series 1: • Vintage Scuba - Series 1
SEA HUNT REMEMBERED playlists
▶︎ Series 3: • Sea Hunt Remembered - ...
▶︎ Series 2: • Sea Hunt Remembered - ...
▶︎ Series 1: • Sea Hunt Remembered - ...
SEA HUNT COLLECTOR
▶︎ Website: seahuntcollecto...
One word of caution for owners of convertible valve tanks, the threads for the insert are not sealed, they are exposed to water. You need to regularly remove the insert or else it will be welded in the valve due to corrosion and build up. Which is actually an issue with "DIN" tanks at many tourist destinations.
A health "sealing" with a silicon grease works wonders here, but care not to get that grease on the inside of the air passage whilst fitting the insert adaptor. I tend to put the insert adaptor in by 1 thread, run a bead of grease around the remaining visiible external threads of the insert, wind it home, nipp up with allen key (no need to really torque it up, then carefully wipe off any extruded exccessive grease. No grease should be, or needs to be visible on the front face of that inserted adaptor insert, the grease simply sits, incompressably, in the thread voids and prevents lots of water, esp. sea water, from sloshing in and out every time you descend or rise
Thanks for sharing Peg.
A
The ISO (international) standard states that yoke clamp is acceptable up to 230 bar or 3442 psig.
That is the tanks maximum pressure, a HP steel tank like Kevin uses. Anything over 3442 and its DIN time.
A
Hey Alec, thanks for all the great videos! Also, thanks for making your two videos on DIN adapters S04E14 and S14E04 😂
Glad you like them!
A
I've used both although the majority of my dives have been Yok fittings. For the average recreational diver it makes bugger all difference. Get what you can afford that's most suitable for your area and get the adapter so you're covered if you travel..
Thats one of my points, the majority of divers don't care as long as the tank is full and does not leak. Geography is key to which is common. Thanks for the comment.
A
Always informative and professional, a great resource
Much appreciated!
A
You’ve answered so many of my questions!!! Thank you!
You are so welcome! Lots more to learn from this stone age diver.
A
Great video Alec.
I was not aware of the two different DIN connectors. I have always used Poseidon regulators, so I have always known about DIN first stage as compared to a yoke first stage. But I was not aware of the lower pressure DIN connection.
As always, you are a wealth of information. Thanks again.
Dive safe
Most modern DIN regs are 300bar DIN. Only a small amount of regs made these days are 200bar DIN, often cheaper regs like the Scubapro Mk2.
Glad to help Sam. Thanks for watching and share you new knowledge at the next dive club meeting!
A
Interesting and informative informative on DIN and Yoke first stages 👍
Glad it was helpful!
A
After me and my wife got certified we went to din only. We dive with HP Steel tanks that hold up to 3325 psi. I always liked din vs yolk. It comes down to how much y’all want to spend that’s all.
Cost is one factor, personal preference, geographic acceptance, dive profile and others affect your decision. In the end, a fun and safe dive is all we really want.
A
Well done! I had to do the research myself long ago when buying my first regulator set and given the option for yoke or din. I saw there was an adapter for $20 to be able to dive on yoke valves and just went with that option to be able to have both.
That $20 adapter has saved a few dives when traveling. I didn’t find out until later there wasn’t a similar option without rebuilding the 1st stage for a yoke to din setup.
Glad i showed you something new. Many years ago few divers crossed the Yoke / DIN borders without a LOT of headaches. Today with tank valve inserts for both and better adapters, travel is fun again. Thanks for watching.
A
Hello Alec!
Thank you for all of the great information and encouragement. I am getting my Yoke Reg converted to DIN. Just curious, about your personal rule of thumb-or, maybe rule of ‘wrist’😉-for how much to tighten the screw when connecting the DIN regs to valves. Thank you!
Hand tight like a light bulb.
A
Awesome explanation. Thank You. 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you.
A
Good morning Alec! I have three full regulator systems, two yoke & one DIN. My steel tanks are all filled to 3450 & have the combo DIN-yoke valves. 90°F weather here in Orange County California today & tomorrow...again! Guess where I'll be . . . 🤿👇
Telling me tomorrow what a great time you had? Enjoy and keep cool Lupus.
A
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Very nice conditions all things considered at Little Corona tide pools area.
(33°35'22"N 117°52'14"W) 16ft - 5m vis, lotsa surg but expected near the rocks, fish didn't mind, neither did I.
Shallow diving (30-35ft - 9-11m) for one Kelp Bass 24" & one Halibut 28". There's Hurricane Kay near Baja California Mexico at the moment that has landed & caused some issues, but the rain expected wouldn't bother me down under, but the waves are getting kinda perky.
Amber my GSD got the whole barbequed Bass, I had some of the Hali'.
Not so sure about going out tomorrow, depending on the cyclone inspired wave activity
We'll see! 🤿
Hi Alex excellent explanation !
For every body in you tube land !
I noticed over the years in dive equipment what is considered new in north America has been common in the Mediterranean for several years I think din is the standard same as bar
Over here psi is commonly understood
you say bar over here every every body thinks you are going for drinks .
Have a great day
That old metric vs not-metric debate still goes on Carl. Safe diving and see you in the Bar latter....
A
Hic!
Actually, even assuming that we are talking about recreational diving (3000 psi) DIN is still better for one single reason : the o-ring is in the regulator not in tank, it’s not so exposed to the sun and debris; it’s cheap and we take care of it and change it as soon as it’s needed. Yoke’s o-rings are in the tanks. Changing hundreds o-rings impact a dive operation’s p&l so they’re run to the very last…and so the o-rings fail.
As is say, there is no best, otherwise there would be no similar products. For DIN, a must for HP tanks than its personal choice (or by geography). Thanks for the feedback.
A
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Nope. DIN is better than Yoke. The fact that Yoke is still around is because there are still a lot of Yoke valves around.
Just because a legacy product is still in circulation, doesn't mean the new product isn't an improvement.
Fuel injected engines are better than carbureted engines, yet there are still carbureted engines around. Just because a fuel injected engine is better, doesn't mean you should put a different engine into your car. Your car will work fine with the outdated technology. But that doesn't mean the newer technology isn't better than the old.
Alec, changing din tank to yoke friendly one it is easy, you buy an threded insert with o ring, with an alan key you screw into din tank and you ready to use yoke regulator.
Like Alec said, not all valves are convertible.
It's not a perfect solution but we can co-exist.
A
If the valve has the depression on the back to allow a yoke screw to engage with, yes. But a standalone DIN valve would not have this.
Nice feature of the DIN is that it is more compact and doesn't have the knob for yoke that seems to have some magnetic attraction to float lines for getting entangled. DIN O-rings tend to be in better shape being on the diver's own reg vs those on the valve of a tank that get often laid down on the ground or torn up from burrs on the mating surface of the regulator's face due to misalignment when attaching to the tank.
Good point for anyone in an environment with kelp or such.
A
NiccoM1
for 0 sekunder siden
Common it 2022. im living in Denmark all here uses DIN,
DIN it is less likely to get a oring from blowing out of its seat.
DIN is more compact with a norb less to get confused in a stress situation.
In a DIN valve you have control over the oring, instead of the dive shop you rent a tank from.
I get you have a lot of yoke tanks in the US, and i would be expensive to replace them all with DIN valves fore some small benefits would be stupid. but Alec YOU as a professional diver should know and tell the audience, that DIN is BETTER. and if tomorrow we could do it all over again there is no good reason to choose a Yoke over a DIN. the only reason yoke is so popular is because it the oldest design. and there is so many thanks out there with yoke.
Best regards Nicolai from Denmark.
No, there is no BETTER, just required for hp tanks. Anything else is personal preference pushed onto others. Is gas better than diesel? Then why does the other exist, because it has a use like DIN and yoke.
A
I didn't know that there is a specific "DIN converter valve". I thought it are just DIN valves with a yoke adapter in it. I have DIN bottles and some of these yoke adapters. Maybe a non-converter-DIN-valve misses the notch in the back, so a yoke screw cannot get hold onto anything? Makes me also wonder if there may have been incidents where people put such yoke insert into a DIN valve without notch in the back, where the yoke may have slid off during the dive?
I have not heard of any yoke insert problems. Once you open the tank valve and have a 3,000 psi seal, it's a hard to slide off.
A
Always learn something. Thanks!
Glad to hear it Justin.
A
Can you tell me a trick to get my din/yoke converter out? It seems to be stuck and the tool is just stripping? All the others came out but there are 2 I cannot budge. Thank you!
If the yoke screw in insert into the tank valve will not come out with some strength on the allen key, the threads were likely stripped when threaded in. If there is any damage to the insert threads, the valve is unsafe and should be replaced is my recommendation.
A
Heat bro
Let me elaborate.
1. The DIN/Yoke valve insert is O-Ring sealed. It must NOT be screwed in too tightly. Lubricate the threads very lightly with silicon grease (or Christo Lube if you prefer). Screw it in until you feel the O-Ring contact, then a bit more until it stops turning without force. Now you are metal to metal - STOP. Check it before each dive to ensure it has not loosened. I said check it - not tighten it.
2. If it will not come out, you have several choices - none attractive.
a. replace the valve, probably the quickest & cheapest & most effective.
b. remove the insert using a broken stud remover. There are 2 types - left hand screw & tapered drive-in. You MIGHT be able to
use one without drilling a hole into the insert but doubtful. You run the risk of ruining the valve in which case read #1 above.
c. if you have a machinist friend he can remove it. Hiring a machinist to do it is expensive. Read #1 above.
3. Do not heat it.
Not great news. Good luck.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter thank you!!
this is a question for both din and yoke regs. after getting out of the water are you suppose to do anything immediately for the valve between the reg and tank besides dry it off and put the cap on it. some people spray the cap or reg with air from there tank to dry it out. i was told to never does this.
Yeah, blowing wet gas from around the orifice or the accumulated moisture inside into your tank into your reg filter & innards makes no sense at all. Also, some of the caps are problematic retaining water which can get into the reg filter & Internals. Having the cap dangle from your valve makes little sense too if you think about it other than being convenient. Lemme know if that answered your question! 🤿👇
Blowing dry the DIN threads whilst 1st stage and cylinder valve are still mated is useful, but not totally without problems, espcially is one is a bit clumsy doing it
If you crack a DIN fitting thread back a bit, then with a very slow, measured and SMALL opening of the tank valve, the nice dry air in the tank will very effectively blow out and dry the thread voids around the OUTSIDE of the DIN threads. No water will get into your 1st stage, because this is opposite to the applied pressure gradient. Drying threads on both the cylinder and 1st stage is good, preventing any water or other debris (sand, silt etc) subsiquently making its way into either (after refiting the 1st stage to a new cylinder or during re-filling of the cylinder itself)
There are downsides however:
The most likely issue is If you don't back out the threads enough, the sealing O-ring could potentially get extruded and damaged during the process. This shouldnt be an issue if you only very gently crack open the valve, ie you don't apply the full cylinder pressure onto the now loosely retained O ring, and if you back out the threads enough to ensure the O ring is lifted well clear of the mating surface, and hence there is no presssure gradient generated across that O ring to lift and scoop it out of it's retaining groove:
But this can cause problem no 2, which is rare but can happen, namely you back the threads out so much, and clumsily wack open the cylinder value too much, and the 1st stage gets forceably ejected from the valve because not enough threads were engaged to hold it in. This is extremely rare of course, and made almost impossible these days on DIN valves that have the thread pressure relief hold drilled in them, however care is needed in this proceedure. It's also generally true that at the end of a dive your cylinder is probably at a reasonably low pressure, but this isn't necessarily an absolute, esp if you dive with multiple gases, stages or pony cyls.
Theoretically, you could, if incredibly unlucky or uncareful gove yourself a high pressure air injury doing this, but i've never actually heard of that happening in reality......
It's also perhaps worth noting that this is no substitute for proper cleaning and washing of your gear! Yes, blowing fresh or salty water out of threads is a good thing, and prevent build up of salt residue for Sea divers, but in all cases, proper washing and cleaning is still required.
Blowing a 1st stage dry once you have FULLY removed the 1st stage is imo, not that sensible due to the risk of blowing water or debris into it the 1st stage however blowing the cylinder valve internal threads dry is ok, but as i have mentioned, if you can do it carefully, then it's better to do ith with the 1st stage still in place but cracked in order to dry all the parts in one go.
BTW, please warn you fellow divers and boat crew etc before you do this, a sudden release of high pressure air tends to make people jump. (you dont; have to release half the contents of the cylinder in a massive screeching hissing whoosh btw, a second of a gentle pfffftt is quite enough :-)
Suggest watching my video S05E03 Dust Caps, on purpose and how to remove a yoke fitting properly, without spraying or annoying everyone around you with an air blast, or 2 or 3 or 4...
A
Use a small towel to dry your cap. It's less annoying, and it doesn't risk blowing moisture into your first stage.
On a Yoke, do it before you remove the regulator from the cylinder.
On a DIN, just leave the cap on the shore or the boat and don't take it with you on the dive. That way it's always dry.
Hi Alec, there is something what I don't understand. At 05:15 you say, what if you want to put your Yoke regulator onto a DIN valve tank. And you say there are no converters for. But isn't just to screw the DIN-Yoke converter back to the tank valve and you have a Yoke valve again? That's what I always do with my sets (have 1 Yoke reg and 1 DIN reg). Can you explain me what I don't understand here?
BTW. Love your videos, tech things explained as I like (with a bit humor as well). I'm a tech guy (not a tec diver but in general) and always want to know how the things work.
Greetz to Kevin as well, he's doing a great job trying to capture all you want to show... 🙂
I'm going by memory here (sometimes it works) but I was focusing on actual adapters, not tank adapters which was covered in another video. Tank converters are great by removing the insert but in my world travels, not every country / live aboard used convertible tank valve. Which is why this was on actual adapters. Hope this helps give some clarity. Glad even tech guys like you find my rants enjoyable.
A
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter ok, thanks for explanation. I wasn't aware of that there are also tanks with fixed valve (DIN or INT, not convertible). And yes, I enjoy your videos very much, keep on going!!!
Greetz from (cold) Holland
@@dre64Only 300 bar or 4400 psi tank valves are not convertible. The donut adapter will screw all the way in, but there is no way to connect a Yoke adapter to it since it can't make contact with the donut adapter.
Any 232 bar or 3400 psi DIN valve can be converted to a Yoke valve if you have a donut adapter. You just screw in the adapter ring, and put the Yoke valve over it.
Basically:
Yoke first stage to DIN 232 valve adapter is a donut ring adapter.
DIN first stage to Yoke valve adapter is a screw-on Yoke adapter.
Advantages of DIN over Yoke:
- more compact
- lighter
- more secure / less likely to fail
- captured O-ring
- user serviced the O-ring
- higher working pressure
- no protrusions that can dislodge the first stage when hit
- no risk of misaligning the first stage
Advantages of Yoke over DIN:
- no risk of cross-threading
- a Yoke clamp on a Yoke valve is more compact than a DIN connector with a Yoke adapter
- an DIN to Yoke adapter ring for the cylinder is cheaper than a DIN to Yoke adapter for the first stage
- if the O-ring is damaged, the dive shop will replace the O-ring, so it doesn't cost you anything
Most, if not all, regulators nowadays are available in both Yoke and DIN, and can be converted by an authorized technician from one to the other. I don't think I ever heard of anyone converting a DIN first stage to a Yoke first stage. I believe the only conversions performed are from a Yoke connector to a DIN connector.
If you're considering buying a new regulator, I would advise buying a DIN regulator. Most dive centers nowadays have convertible cylinder valves. If you're diving with a dive center that doesn't, get a DIN to Yoke adapter.
Hi Alec, my 1976 U S Divers RAM Twin hose regulator yoke fitting is rated 3500psi and my Conshelf 14 single hose is rated 4000 psi hmmmm.Hasn't din been around since 50s or 60s?
The DIN valve was invented in the U.S. In the late 1950s American diving manufacturer Poseidon launched what they named their “⅝-inch Threaded Connection (aka DIN). Not a success with divers but industry adopted it because of the secure connection and higher pressures to 300 Bar.
A
What are the odds I would need a 300 bar DIN insert in a recreational dive setting? Most of the inserts I see on the market are only rated to 200 bar. I'm trying to weigh all my options before buying a regulator, and understand which adapter method will work best for me.
A 300 bar is needed for high pressure tanks from 3442 psi / 237 bar, and up. If you're happy with recreational pressures, stick with 200 bar. However if you think you might go into the higher pressures, better to buy one reg than replace a 200 bar in a few years.
A
There is no such thing as a 300 bar DIN insert. An insert like that would facilitate you attaching a Yoke connector rated for 200 bar to a 300 bar cylinder, guaranteeing a catastrophic failure.
You can have your first stage converted from Yoke to DIN by a qualified service technician. You will then have a DIN first stage instead of a Yoke first stage.
If you're weighing your options before buying a regulator, you can stop right there. There really is only one option: DIN. Buying a new regulator with a Yoke connector is investing in outdated technology. That's like buying a brand new Windows95 computer. Yes, it will connect to the internet, but it's not going to let you experience everything on offer today.
It's not just about the 300 bar high pressure cylinders either. If you want to dive doubles or sidemount, you're going to need DIN regulators. If you want to advance to technical diving, you're going to need DIN regulators. If you want to dive with deco gases, you're going to need DIN regulators. Yoke is a nightmare in all those scenarios. And even if you're just going to stick with recreational diving on low pressure cylinders, DIN kicks Yoke ass on every metric that matters: Safety, convenience, reliability, peace of mind, and ease of use.
That's so great job😍👌
I wanna take course maintenance for regulators wtih certification.. Did you have any information about that 🙏
Each manufacturer offers service courses for those wanting to self-service or go pro. Ask your LDS if they know of a course coming up for your gear to 1) know how to service your gear and 2) decide if you want to become a service pro. You need to do it regularly to stay current and practice makes a huge difference. Give it a try.
A
I use Scubapro MK25 Evo DIN all my life. Write down below the comment which you prefer DIN or YOKE
There is no preference, its mandated by tank pressure and geography.
A
Yoke is a legacy connector.
DIN is better in every way to yoke.
All regulators come with 300 bar DIN, and that works on every DIN connector regardless of the pressure. Furthermore DIN has basically always a smaller profile to a yoke valve.
DIN is always convertible to Yoke but not the other way around.
Even with yoke below the critical pressure, yoke tends to have oring slips or fitting to slip away.
There is absolutely no reason today to buy yoke.
Yoke works, but has limitations... Let it just slowly disappear as the market rightfully migrated away toward a better fitting
Thanks for sharing your points.
A
Yoke can be put on DIN valves. You can buy such inserts which go into the DIN valve which turns them into INT/yoke valves. Is like 9 dollars and an allen wrench. I have them by default in my diving box.
I have a Scubapro MK 25 EVO first stage and a adapter. However, something really funny happened. The yoke adapter thread literally locked on my DIN thread and the clamp part came off !! I can't unthread the yoke adapter off of my DIN first stage. I had to buy another first stage.... it all happened after a dive, so salt might have formed to lock the adapter thread in place.
I experienced almost the same: I used a Scubapro Yoke adapter on my MK 25 EVO during a one week dive trip. At home, I literally hat to use a bench vise to unscrew the adapter. As far as I can tell, the aluminium threads of the yoke adapter corroed and "baked" with the threads of the first stage together. Probably, the next time I would use a different adapter.
That is an unusual problem PD. Maybe try some WD40 on the threads and adapter to smooth the threads.
A
your video incorrectly states that Yoke is for up to 3000psi, when in fact HP steel tank with 3442psi have yoke/din valves... which is so close to old 3500psi that why would you bother with DIN only tanks (other than being cheaper to find).
Most people dive here in Monterey HP 3442psi and the shops prefer yoke wips as they can connect to tanks in under a second each... DIN takes a lot of turn on those adapters - which you didn't show and should have mentioned to not dive with them (ok for filling).
The DIN standard test precedure for high pressure cylinders required a longer higher engagement, greater safety factor thread in order to pass the fairly aggressive "over pressure" mandate of that test standard with the worst case valve / 1st stage material yield strength and the highest thread wear allowed. In reality, few bits of scuba kit are today made with anything but very high grade materials, few people use extremely worn out gear, and few cylinders experience anything like the worst case over pressure events, so no, its vanishingly unlikely to every be a problem in reality, but our regulations are put in place to mitigate against all scenarios where possible :-)
For the vast majority of divers, its personal preference and local acceptance. One place is all yoke another only DIN, even if it angers visiting divers from other geographies. Key point is both can work together for any diver which is what makes our sport global. Thanks Alain.
A
It's confusing the way you explained it. The subject matter isn't that confusing.
If you want to use a 300 bar cylinder, you'll need a 300 bar DIN regulator.
If you want to use a 232 bar cylinder, you can use any regulator.
If the 232 bar cylinder has a Yoke valve, you need a DIN to Yoke adapter to fit a DIN regulator.
If the 232 bar cylinder has a DIN valve, you need an adapter ring to fit a Yoke regulator.
A 232 bar DIN regulator will not fit on a 300 bar DIN valve.
A 300 bar DIN regulator will fit on a 232 bar DIN valve.
232 bar is about 3360 psi.
300 bar is about 4350 psi.
For Americans, the largest market, anything over 3442 psi needs a DIN, that's something they can remember.
A
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter It's the same in Europe. Just a global thing i think.
DIN is better!
DIN is mandatory in HP tanks but in lower pressures, it's a personal preference and everyone has their favourites. Go DIN.
A
One thing i have to admit, is that a yoke goes onto the bottle way more easy. I have only DIN stuff, but you always need to be careful not to cross-thread things. With yoke you cannot cross-thread anything. A yoke you can just put the reg onto the o-ring and tighten the screw.