Pat Pattle - Top African Ace and his African Kills
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 сер 2023
- South African pilot Marmaduke Thomas 'Pat' Pattle was one of the leading Allied WWII fighter aces. He joined the RAF in 1936 and was soon deployed to Egypt with No 80 Squadron equipped with Gloster Gladiator biplanes. He fought against Italians in North Africa and Greece and finally, against Germans. He was killed in a dogfight over Piraeus harbor in Greece and the subsequent withdrawal of British forces from the country led to loss of official records for his final deployment. Some of his victories are not officially documented but he is believed to have achieved about fifty kills. Initially forgotten, he is now often recognized as the leading Western Allied ace pilot of WWII.
In this video, you will be able to see how he scored his initial kills in North Africa (and how he got shot down).
Main sources:
- E.C.R. Baker - Ace of Aces: The Incredible Story of Pat Pattle - the Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII
amzn.to/3YKHGOp
- Andrew Thomas - Gloster Gladiator Aces
amzn.to/3suQo7b
- Håkans aviation page
surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/common...
Support the channel on Patreon:
/ showtime112
Donate via Paypal:
www.paypal.com/paypalme/showt...
Join our Discord server:
/ discord
Kay519955's Instagram:
/ 3dresinworksofficial
Music - Desert Caravan by Aaron Kenny
#militaryaviationhistory #militaryaviation #royalairforce - Наука та технологія
Not all the aircraft types and variants, insignia and camouflage patterns are 100% historically accurate. Such things are caused by platform limitations and there's no need to comment them. Also, at 7:16 the Breda is hit in the starboard wing, not engine as it is a single-engine aircraft. Thank you for your understanding.
Yo what game is that in the back?
@@CasperTheRamKnight War Thunder
I know Pat Pattle from Roald Dahl’s book. He spoke very highly of his commander. Describing Pat as ace of Aces.
Yes, sources seem to agree that he was very respected. Thanks for the comment!
SAME here.
THANKS RD, & PP.
BECAUSE he was KIA in Greece, that's why we haven't heard of him more.
NICE narration & graphics.
Yeah i also read about him
Pattles biography is called "Ace of aces" written by E.C.R Baker. It's definitely worth a read if you can get hold of it.
@@olesuhr727 he flew a hurricane later on
My grandfather was a pilot on CR-42 in Libya more or less in the same period and later in Crete and Rhodes, maybe they crossed paths
It is possible. Did you have a chance to talk to him about his experiences?
These actions are aerial combat gold, when one considers these were some of the last occasions, if not the last, when biplane fighters fought it out against other biplanes. Excellent narrative!
Thanks, once again! I wonder if Hs-123s ever fought any I-15s in Soviet Union. Those might be the last such cases ever.
The story of an African Ace fits the discretion of one my ex-boss of some 40 years back told me.
Dick Stacy was a South African; of English Ancestry, and was a Tank Commander. In a sad voice, told be of his dear friend, who matches your discretion. He said his friend died when his head hit tail of his plane when bailing out.
During the African Campaign, Dick’s tank got hit, and he left leg was severely burned. He spent a year in a New Zeeland Hospital.
He said they used maggots to clean his leg wounds. He also told me the stench of his wounds were horrendous. He then lifted the lower leg of his pants above the knee, and then said. LOOK NO SCARS.
Thanks for sharing!
I've shared the daylights out of this in some SA Aviation forums. Thanks for creating this on behalf of all SA Aviators.
I appreciate it, thanks a lot!
Superb presentation as usual. Thank you for all the effort to bring these forgotten heroes into the limelight once again.
They deserve it. Thanks for appreciating the content!
Thanks once again for covering obscure corners of aviation history.
Thank you for watching! Many of those stories deserve to be told.
Early WWII bi-plane vids are by far my favorite. The music is perfect too thanks so much!
I'm getting to like them more and more too. The music felt like something they would have used had they made a movie about Pattle in the 1960s, Lawrence of Arabia kind of a thing.
Honorable Pat Pattle came to my attention back in 2019 when randomly researching South African WWII involvement: his story disturbed me that he wasn't properly recognized or mentioned anywhere. Really glad to see more content online about this and really enjoyed the narrative on these war journals!
RIP Hero
Thank you for the comment! He does deserve some more attention, that's for sure.
A great man. Regarded by his contemporaries as the very greatest.
He seems to have been held in high regard by those who knew him, according to the sources I could find. Thanks for the comment!
I was hopping you'd do the Pattle video sometime and thank you for that. Most likely greatest biplane ace of WW 2 , greater than Mario Vizintini for sure. There's a book out there describing his squadron's fighting in Greece , very detailed..
Thanks a lot! He definitely deserves more attention and some of those battles will be covered in the future.
The book you are talking about, could be, Ace of Aces by ECR Baker, I've read the book, very detailed,I've also started to build model aircraft of the Gladiator and the Hurricane he flew.
A great contribution again! Thanks for making this.
Thank you for appreciating the content!
Another great piece of World War II history. Thanks for your lessons
Thank you for appreciating it!
Keep up the great work, man. The hard work you put into these videos, shows.
I'm happy to hear it! The secret is that I'm really doing the videos I'd like to watch myself 😉
Finally, the few times i can be proud of my country and once able air force😂😅
Hope you could do some Rhodesian War (70s) vids as they had amazing pilots with decaying equipment in a difficult and one sided war with some interesting aircraft
Thanks again🤌🤟
(Edit)
There was an invasion of Madagaskar in ww2 with britain and south africa vs vichy france and kinda japan if thats also a vid idea
Thanks for the comment! Rhodesia is potentially interesting, I have some general idea about it and we have some of the aircraft they used in War Thunder. There isn't exactly a proper map for the region I guess.
As for your other suggestion, I'm not sure but it does sound potentially interesting. I'll have to research it a bit.
Those would be AMAZING.
Mate without the contributions from commonwealth countries early in the war i don't think the British could have succeeded in north africa and the middle east. Be proud of your countries efforts and contributions.
@@crow7505 bruh I'm talking about now
ANC has taken the rand from at worst R3-4 (when SA was sanctioned) to damn R18-9
Most of our fighters are either unable or too dangerous to fly
And one of the biggest causes of this being a reality Zuma got released from prison ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ why should I be proud?
@@alk3326 Yeah fair call mate i'm not full bottle on SA politics.I do often wonder what might have been if Aus and SA developed our defense industries cooperatively you guys make /made some wonderful kit in the 2000s.
Well done again! And your pronunciation is steller! Great channel. I always look forward to Saturday.
Thank you very much, I'm glad you appreciate the content! Next Saturday is just around the corner :)
Showtime your presentations are second to none!
That's encouraging, thank you!
Pat Pattle! And biplane furballs over the desert! You are the best 🙂
Thanks a lot, I'm happy that you appreciate the video!
Great work! Thank you for sharing military aviation history in your great way!
Thank you very much for your repeated financial support!
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Obraticu ti se na "nasem" jeziku. Pratim tvoje priloge i migu reci da su odlicni! Bravo,
cekam tvoj prilog o Petelovoj borbi iznad Grcke, Albanije i Jugoslavije.
Samo napred!
Hvala na pozitivnom komentaru! Da, Pattle je ratovao u ovim krajevima i u planu mi je obraditi i tu temu. Nisam još točno siguran kada ali bit će.
I never heard of Pat Pattle before.
He is often overlooked but I hope this video helped a bit. Thanks for another comment!
Incredible Ace, I had never heard of him.
He does deserve more attention for sure.
Great video! I love the cinematography.
I'm glad you liked it, thanks!
Top notch video as always!!
Thanks a lot, I'm happy to see you've been subscribed for a while!
@@showtime112 Is a new tradition for saturdays, your videos and a coffe mug.
I have heard of him but I had no idea he was that successful
Yes, he did really well but was then completely forgotten until about 1960s.
Read his book "Ace of Aces" by ECR Baker.
@@Robin-rk4tm Thanks for the advice!
Excellent video!
Thank you for commenting!
I am a WW1 aviation historian ( author with two others of the biography of italian WW1 aces). I have, on the other side, a rather good knowledge also of WW2 ops, and know many italianunit book published book about WW2 warfare. I am also a glider pilot knowing well what flying in extreme condition mean. In all wars (even in now ongoing russian ucranian war) there is always been a greath exaggeration about claims, both sides. I say claims and not "confirmation" because they were based only on post battle report of highly excited pilots. Sometimes the difference between real losses and claims are incredible.
Great video as usual.
Thanks a lot!
I love the way you describe Pat Pattle as an Aftican ace. He was a South African who was white. I know it is not woke to celebrate our whiteness nowadays but he was a South African hero who happened t be born in a nation founded by Europeans long before the Bantu invasions.
I'd say, if he was born and raised in Africa and he was a citizen of an African country, that makes him an African of European origin. Thanks for the comment!
Much like Elon Musk who is a true African American
He was African.
Nowadays I simply say he was from one of the white tribes.
Espectacular. Muy bueno, muy bueno. Me ha encantado.
Gracias
Thank you very much for your positive comment!
When an English South African excels he is one of them , otherwise the Afrikaans wouldn't be bothered to talk to him. Played golf in Pretoria with one of the locals , huge man in statue . He told me that he played Rugby for S.A. schoolboys . The only English in the Squad . and they all shunned him.
No surprise that Prattle went to the UK in 1936 to join the RAF.
Lt/Com Norman Hanson a RN fighter pilot , claims in his book that the British never went ashore singly in Cape Town , always in groups .
Though its not so bad today , the Yarpies are getting over the Boer War , Have more serious problems to worry about.
That is a very interesting insight, thanks!
Well yeah who wouldn't shun someone who comes from a group who in recent history (at that time) put their wives and children in death camps ...
@@showtime112Not really. Just more Anglo nonsense. These people cant understand how there is resentment towards English for starving our women and kids (and 70 000 Africans) in camps for gold mining rights in SA only 30 years later during ww2...to them its inconceivable, mind of psychopaths. And most SA pilots went to UK to help including Afr largely because SAAF didnt have the money or capacity to accomodate them - most notable is Sailor Malan and Jacobus le Roux. And UK rang its little servant bell which is another reason we resent them (proxy rule).
He ran to some foreign Country to exploit the women there with currency exchange to British pound too it seems.
Also, when a Irishman or Scotsman does well he is considered 'one of theirs' but if they do poorly they are referred to their heritage background. They starved the Irish too like our people. And today they stand on the corpses of 400 000+ Ukrainians because of Boris Johnson. Another proud Englishman.
Sorry for the rant but I cant stand these scumbags running their mouths about us when we know their true nature that is supressed in a Anglo dominated media world. Good health to you Showtime and thanks.
The reverse is also true though. Any South African who rises to prominence gets claimed by the British as being one of theirs.
Roger Bartlett, James Greathead and Tolkien come to mind. As are there many others.
Roger Bartletts parents were both English . Tolkein ancestors arrived in England in 1770 , he considered himself English. Greathead was of English descent , moved to England was he was 15. Colin Cowdrey and Guy Gibson were born in India , Ted Dexter in Italy . Each would say they were English.
Superb content, detail and presentation. The only thing I would like if possible would be if you add details of the game used (which I know is mentioned in other comments is War thunder) if any add ons ? Again brilliant work…
Thank you for the very positive feedback! I'm experimenting a bit with YT video classification and trying to move the content away from just gaming (because, it's more history than gaming). If you see biplanes, it is definitely War Thunder :)
Moram si izgraditi maketu Gladiatora, elegantan je🛩️
Jako uzbudljiv video, svaka čast.
Hvala na komentaru! Slažem se da bi Gladiator sigurno bio zahvalna tema za izgradnju.
For anyone that wants to know more about Pat Pattle, I can recommend his biography "Ace of Aces" by E.C.R.Baker. it's a fascinating read even by todays standards.
Yes, a very interesting read.
My. Dad met him on an airfield in Greece whilst evacuating troops back to Egypt(Flt sergeant G.E Ford.216 Sqdn. Flying The Bristol bombayTwin engine bomber/Transport aircraft.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. I hope to cover some of the fighting done by the RAF in Greece too someday.
That's very kind of you to speak about this pilot who is unknow from the second world war.
He died above Athenes on his Hurricane against the Luftwaffe when the english had quit Greece after loosing the battle. We give him 50 victories maybe more, he overtakes the american pilot which has the best number of victories Richard Bong on P-38 with 40 kills. So, Pat Pattel is in fact the TOP ACE of the second world war.
On the Allied side, he seems to be bested only by a handful of Soviet pilots in the number of kills. I hope to cover at least some of his battles over Greece in the future. Thanks for another positive comment!
@@showtime112
Yes, I have forgotten the soviet pilot which I don't remember the name with 69 victories on P-39 Airacobra.
@@showtime112
It's a russian pilot, its name is IVAN NIKITOVITCH KOJEDOUB with 62 victories.
this IS THE TOP ALLIED ACES, in reality he has shot down a ME-262 !!!
Pilote peu connu dans un théâtre d'opérations peu médiatisé a l'époque. On se demande comment en sous effectif il a réussi à en abattre tant. Surtout c'était biplan contre biplan au début et italien. Le 109 est arrivé plus tard.
Pour les as thomas Mac Guire était au même niveau que Bong.
Et on oublie un as inconnu Finlandais Eimo Juutilainen. 94 victoire homologué et avec des zincs ", hétéroclites
@@dominiqueroudier9401
Le problème est bien la médiatisation.
Guynemer on en parle Fonck beaucoup moins alors qu'il a 75 victoires et qu'il est sorti vivant du conflit il a même obtenu une place de député à al sortie de la guerre.
Le B-17 on en parle beaucoup alors qu'il y a plus de B-24 produits pendant la dernière guerre mondiale.
Thomas Mac Guire connait pas et le finlandais encore moins sauf que ce n'est pas un allié mais quand même faut le faire dans les deux cas.
Les as féminines russes on en cause encore moins de notre côté.
This is a good channel.
Vrlo zanimljiva epizoda!
Hvala na komentaru!
That was great . Thanks .
I appreciate your feedback!
It's kind of ironic when Gladiators shot down planes marked with the fasces. Wonder if the irony escaped the Italians?
I AM SPARTACUS!
Never thought of that 😁
good one mate - greeting from SA
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
Thank you!
Thank you for watching!
Postman Pat sure was good, but he never told anyone about this after the war
He didn't tell anyone because he was killed in a battle early in the War.
Wow War Thunder holds up pretty good for this type of stuff. I know it has a ton of planes so hopefully it lets you cover more vehicles not included in DCS. EDIT: Oh you've used it lots before and I never noticed, but today I was playing that same desert map and it clicked lol. great video I promise to sub on patreon as soon as I'm done moving.
Exactly! DCS (and even IL-2) are quite limited when it comes to WWII, and especially the early period. Thank you very much for considering becoming a Patreon supporter!
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your continuous support!
What combat sim (e.g. War Thunder, World of War Planes, etc.) was this video made with?
It's War Thunder. Not exactly a sim 😁
Very good indeed.
I appreciate your positive comment!
Superb video, as ever. Sadly Pat Pattle was a victim of Churchill's ill-advised decision to divert forces to fight in Greece (After being advised numerous times not to).
Thank you for the comment! In Churchill's defense, this was a lose-lose situation. At that time, it still looked like the Axis could be stopped in that part of Europe and some countries were still not decided. Had he not sent forces to aid Greece, he would have probably been criticized for abandoning British allies.
@@showtime112 true enough although I think his main motivation was to show to the world at large (i.e. America) that Britain was still capable of fighting an offensive war and taking the fight to the enemy. But I suppose it's easy to criticise from 80 years later, so perhaps I should go a bit easier on him :)
I knew his score was hinted at 40+, but I'd never seen an estimate of fifty before.
North Africa seems to have been very much the last biplane vs biplane war.
There still isn't (and never will be) an official credit and the score can be debated. But all victory claims are debatable to some extent, even confirmed ones. African theater was probably the last one although Greece before the German invasion saw plenty of biplane combat too.
TY 🙏🙏
Thank you for watching these older videos!
Another great vid.
A+ history
Thanks a lot for the positive comment!
Brave Italian pilots! 😎👍
Even in theatres were records still exist SAFFER's exploits successes and sacrifices, were and still are, conveniently overlooked even now some thirty years after the end of Apartheid. Thank you for bringing this story to light.
Thanks for the comment!
Living in England, the victors write the history, and the full on propaganda machine narrative is this myth " We stood alone, nobody helped us" said with a working class cockney accent. Plucky Brits won the war single handed.
Pat Pattle is such an interesting character or at least had an interesting story in North Africa, Balkan and Greece. Hopefully we can see more of him, 20 min are not enough to cover him! :D
I certainly plan to make another episode or two about him. Thanks for the feedback!
Beatifull work......
When You make a work about IA-58 Pucará and hes missions ?
Thanks ,,and greatings from Argentina.
Thanks! I intend to cover the Pucara operations in the 1982 conflict. I found some sources but I need to find time to study them. Also, I don't have the period correct skins for the aircraft mod, it might take time to produce. But I think you might find the next video particularly interesting.
Ok.,,thanks For Your time and dedication.
We love arcraft 🤷🏻♂️.
Bravo kolega!!!
Hvala na komentaru!
The Gladiator was obsolete but so we're most of the Italian aircraft
True, thanks for the comment!
Italians made a few good aircafts
But allies had better stuff
Great video. COngratulations.
Thanks a lot! Glad you liked it!
Great video. War Thunder?
Thanks! Yes, it is WT. The best selection of WWII airplanes.
Thanks for this interesting and important part of avaition history. Those who make great contributions to the fight are often overlooked and are lost to time. Thanks for all you do! ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇲🏁🇺🇦🔱🌸🌼🏵️❤️🩹🏹
I quite agree. Thanks for another inspired comment!
Gladiator probably the most beautiful of Biplanes.
Yes, it's not a bad looking thing.
@@showtime112 👍
....is this done on DCS? If so, I'd no idea that all these planes were modelled!
No, this was done in War Thunder. DCS is quite limited in WWII.
👍
Hvala!
That shows what flying in close formation is worth for fighters. Five Fiat CR 42 was shot down before the rest of the formation knew what was happening. The pilots have to concentrate on holding the place in the formation, only the leader can look around. And several planes can easily be hit in an attack. Unfortunatly people want to see many planes in a small space in movies.
I often get comments (which I find a bit annoying) saying something like 'yeah right, and they didn't see the attackers?'. Of course they didn't! Having a good SA is extremely hard with all that flying, navigating and formation keeping. You can't just look back all the time. Italian fighters had no radio, they relied on hand signals and basically, you needed to watch your leader almost all the time if you didn't want to miss a signal. Thanks for making that point.
One of the forgetting Aces of World War II.
Yes, only decades after the war was his combat record brought to people's attention.
Early in the war, too. Others came in pretty quickly to fill the void.
can you do a dogfight between a p47 and p51 in south america?
Which conflict do you mean? There were clashes between P-51s and Corsairs in the Hundred Hours War between Honduras and Salvador.
@@showtime112 Costa rican P51 vs Nicaraguan P47
@@alphaaquilla1359 It is a potentially interesting story. If I manage to find enough details about it, I'll probably cover it.
@@showtime112 TY :)
This presentation is truly the work of a master or team of masters. Impressive
I'm happy to hear you think so! Feel free to check other videos if you haven't already.
Hello showtime. Just finished ...paperwork after end of holidays 😭.
This battle was not well know because at same Time in Europa ended the battle of France and the beginning of battle of Britain. Historians and medias prefers this.
It was the unique battle biplan vs biplan in ww2 i think. RAF vs Reggia aeronautica. Fortunately Luftwaffe was not here.
Media was better in this area in 1942 for Al-Alamein.
Like said Jeanne zehner . Many unknow top aces .
I permit to add the finnish top ace Elmo Juutilainen. 94 kills with ..motley planes( Buffalo,P36 Hawk, hurricane..bf 109G)
Welcome back! 😁 You are probably right about the Home Front being in the focus at that time.
And I really need to do more videos about Finns (your comment reminds me of that)
@@showtime112 Ilmavoimat was full of obsolète but.... efficient planes. Like Buffalo. In USA and UK this plane was not at good place at good moment except in Finland
@@showtime112 Finland was an Axis country and then flipped late into the war. In aerial combat reference, the Axis powers did have superior pilots with much more experience. South Africa had no Air Force prior to WWII with hand-me down planes from WWI (Biplanes). That said, Mr. Pattle immerged.
What could he have done in the Hurricane?
So 46 kills or even more just got unnoticed?
Not unusual when you look at the circumstances. Half of his kills were achieved when he was the CO of No 33 Squadron in Greece during April of 1941. The Squadron records were destroyed, Pattle was killed and the British forces pulled out of Greece which was a secondary (if not a tertiary) theater for them. That's not where the attention was.
So he never engaged Hans Joachim Marseille. How would that have turned out?
We can only speculate. I suppose a lot would depend on the tactical situation.
👍👍👍
Thanks a lot for the support!
👌
Glad you liked it, thanks!
Where do you see a starboard engine on a breda?
You're right, that is supposed to be wing. I guess the wheel nacelle made it look like an engine from a distance and I mispronounced it. I apologize for the mistake.
Does anyone know how he met his fate?
He was killed in a battle against Luftwaffe fighters over Piraeus harbor.
If he was British he would have got the VC and everybody would know him.
Are those Gladiators
'Faith', 'Hope' & 'Charity' ?
No, those nicknames refer to the Gladiators which fought over Malta in 1940. There's more info here: ua-cam.com/video/tz6y-uU_fvo/v-deo.html
"Faith", "Hope" & "Charity were Sea Gladiators stationed on Malta.
If memory serves me correctly this man was killed over Pireus because he neglected to check his tail before attacking a German aircraft, thus giving a Me-110 a perfect shot
He was sick and insisted no flying combat despite being grounded
...ON flying combat....!
He was killed over Piraeus battling German 110s, true.
@@mikegreenfield5102 He was sick and broke his own golden rule about a particular manoeuvre, in order to come to the aid of a fellow RAF pilot.
Two of the lads here HAVE rightfully mentioned he was ill & properly sick
He was running a high fever & his body temperature was off the scale.
Sqdn M.O actually ordered him to stay in bed & Pattle was physically LOCKED IN
Pattle climbed out the top window, so as not to be seen welching out OR even letting his mates down as he knew they were at a HUGE numerical disadvantage
He went to the assistance of his mate 'Caesar Hull' who was being attacked by several cannon armed Me.110's ("E" variant) who shot Hull down & killed him anyway.... As he did so, about x 6 Me.110's boxed him in & whichever direction he turned he would've been hit anyway - Much in the same way that German ace Gunther Rall was attacked & shot-down by Robert Rankin's flight(s) of P.47 Thunderbolts of the legendary 56th Fighter Group.
Pattle's mistake (after being physically restrained & THEN 'locked in' to the airfield's own medical block), was, jumping out of the top window "to escape" & then putting himself in grave danger & attempting air-combat with a raging fever & his own body in a physically "F&&KED UP STATE" whilst shaking & trembling from the high fever & local virus that he'd gone down with.
Flying a Hawker Hurricane whilst outnumbered 7-1 is NOT a good idea when you are vomiting & shivering hot & cold due to an overwhelming virus that might've even killed other people, before they even got off the ground.
Such a shame we lost him so early in the war & on such a futile campaign (Greece)
Ironically, my Grandad's Brother WAS there = Greece, B.E.F
He was withdrawn from Greece by HMS Hotspur of all things "TO CRETE"
Out of the frying pan & literally, into the fire !!!!!!
Amazing escape story, but, I'll save that for another time...
You are telling a story upside down. I am a native of Asmara. In that place the first air battles took place. Maybe you missed one name above all . This is Captain Mario Visentini, the first Italian ace of the Second World War. I remind you that this ace has 16 kills in his palmares including Blenhain and wullington, the other victories were obtained against Gloste and Hurricane. The 17th victory was not counted as the heavily damaged aircraft managed to land, but could not be repaired. Moreover he destroyed 34 planes on the ground alone or with wingman , another Ace , Sergeant Baron ! Document yourselves better and not always for the one and only part. This information can also be found in Wikipedia!
Dude, I'm not sure what it is exactly you are trying to 'correct' here (or why you Eritreans have to mention Wikipedia in every comment) but if we are correcting each other, let me say two things. 1. You are apparently commenting under a wrong video. This one is about Pat Pattle, not Mario Visintini. 2. You have posted exactly the same comment three times. Maybe you just wanted to make a point, maybe you wanted to help with the algorithm, I don't know. The second thing might not be a mistake and in that case, I apologize 😁
I'd like to make a correction, the greatest Italian 800m runner in Italian history is in fact South African. Respect to Marcello Fiasconaro
👏🏻🍻🇿🇦
Thank you for commenting!
Everyone knows how Hitler made many military blunders, but it is not so well recognised how much damage Churchill did to the Allied war effort with his amateurish schemes. The campaign in Greece was especially stupid. Its timing is especially important, coming just after the British had whalloped the Italians in North Africa but before they finished them off.
Without it, the British would have taken all North Africa before Rommel even arrived. Crete could have been properly fortified and held. Greece cost the British and Commonwealth many ships, sorely-needed elite divisions, aircraft and of course many experienced men.
It would be 18 months before the British had an army and leaders capable of defeating the Germans.
I suppose that had some political sense back then. Some European countries were not yet allied with Germany and Italy and sending troops to Greece gave a message 'we will support you if you are attacked'. Of course, that didn't help much but there's that benefit of a hindsight.
I would question his aircraft-servicemen, knocking-out the lot of 'em after each return; bastards .. how did his politics play into his allotment .. ?
If you mean because of gun jams, it looks like this was a common problem with the Gladiator. Not necessarily caused by bad mainteinance.
Bad start Pat was the #1 ace of Britain and all the colonies. Please make the correction as he earned that right, mate.
Who had vedio cameras then
What exactly is a vedio camera? 😁😁😁
What kind of guns did the Brits have?
On the Gladiators: four .303 caliber machine guns (mm 7,7)
@@LevPicaresco Thank you.
There is only one possibility to verify and it is crossing info with the other side. Pilots reports are largely inaccurate due to exicitement, adrenaline, poor oxygenation, and the stress of high speed manouvres. Pattle was surely a very good pilot but crediting him with 30 to 50 "confirmed" ( who confirmed?) is pure fantasy. The same thing apply to most WW2 pilots, both sides.
'Confirmed' kill essentially means that your superiors believed your claims. Or that they chose to believe them. As opposed to a 'probable' kill. And yes, almost all claims are exaggerated. I'm currently working on the second part of CAI operations in the British campaign. On 11 November 1940, RAF claimed destroying nine Italian bombers (out of ten which participated in the raid). Only three were actually lost. But the point of this video was to show that Pattle is unfairly overlooked compared to other Allied pilots. And if his claims are overblown, so are probably those of others and Pattle still deserves more recognition as his score is very high by any measure.
@@showtime112 In WW2 "superiors" of all country accepted almost without doubt all tge mist fantastic and incredible claims they submitted. This is true not only for british pilots but also (and much more) for US ones. The 325th fighter group claims over Sardinia are incredible (in south Sardinia in 1943 there was only the 51 stormo of italian airforce) as example but also itakians abd gernabs overclaimed largely. In WW1 the action that lead to VC given to Billy Bishop is by now almost proved to be totally fake. Unfortunatly in every war propaganda was (and is even now) largely used. I have made research in WW1 archives for 20 years (only italian front ) and I can assure you that there are lot of "aces" that have not shot down a single aircraft. It funny to see that why some are quite reliable other are not.
I guess he earned his pay, huh? 😉
👍🏻💪🏻👏🏻🍻🍻🙋🏼♂️
The SAAF must have been kicking themselves for not taking him. Kinda like Decca not signing up the Beatles in 1962 😁
@@showtime112 😂👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻🍻🍻
Keep in mind these English chaps were most likely wearing shorts and t shirts or at least short sleeved or rolled up shirts while dogfighting in the hot sky of Africa 😂
I BELIEVE RICHARD BONG HAD 50 KILLS
His score was actually 40.
Pattle had most of his kills over Greece in horrible living conditions flying Hurricane II’s. Most of the pilots and staff were suffering fro dysentery and other diseases. It is said that the squadron doctor forbade him to fly but he did with a 103 fever. They had few if any pilots then that could fly at all.
@@showtime112 & M.Telson9798 = I also read (in a very detailed account, many years ago now..) that the Squadron's own Chief Medical officer had ORDERED Pattle & DEMANDED that he do not fly (due to his fever/temperature) & that they actually locked him inside a medical room, that unfortunately had glazed window frames. Pattle felt awful about letting down his fellow pilots, so, he escaped from the locked room & ran to an ALTERNATE Hurricane that had been readied for the fight BUT NOT HIS REGULAR ONE
Am told his regular(ly used Hurricane) was used & taken into combat by someone else instead, given that Pattle was 'confined under orders' & NOT supposed to be going up in combat at all - It's also said.....
When he saw his former Sqaudron mate "Caesar Hull" being shot-down & attacked by 2 x Me.110's he is reputedly seen by eyewitnesses to "go to his aid & assistance" (again, despite his high-fever) & in doing so, got attacked by the top-cover flight (again, I was told it was ME.110's) who set about him, something in the region of 6-1 against - He never stood a chance & was shot-down into the 'Bay of Eleusis'
(Excuse the spelling of the latter - I'm typing from pure memory alone, as I learned of this in the 1980's)
By chance, my Gradad's next youngest Brother ALSO fought in Greece, in the 'ill-feted' Greek campaign**
**( known as Churchill's folly - purely because of the logistic impossibility of it all )
Gordie (Gordon) my relative, was evacuated from Greece by HMS Hotspur - Not sure of the date
By pure chance & $hit-bad-luck, he was 'evacuated to Crete' onboard the destroyer mentioned above.
Caught defending one of the airfileds (I was told but cannot remember "if" it was Heraklion or Maleme) he was shooting the German Fallschirmjeager as they jumped from their Ju.52's, long before ANY attempted to land - He described it as "a Turkey shoot" although he was only using his service rifle, an 0.303 Lee-Enfield
Bizarrely, when or rather as Crete 'fell' he WAS ordered to go to Sphakia (Bay) for naval extraction (again !)
Seeing the bay had (like) "A Gazillion men there" he said "F&&K THAT" & took his squad of men in his truck further, much further across the Southern coastline, hoping to find an alternative - it happened too !!
They came across a Royal Navy Motor Launch down in a bluff / cove area, whilst their truck was on a cliff
Two men ran down to 'greet the Navy' & ask for help, only to be told - "We're meeting TWO high ranking officers here, that's WHY We're here" (so basically, "You can Buzz off")
Two lower ranking guys walked towards them & said "Never mind him" adding "We're due to leave @ 17:15"
"Be here by then & "if" those two bozos DO NOT arrive, we're casting-off anyways"
(we'll smuggle you on board, they added) - That's exactly what happened & Gordie & his squad WERE saved
The motor launch made it's way out to sea, out to it's Mother-Craft, which happened to be "HMS Hotspur"
( Again !!!!! )
This time, to Alexandria & relative safety - He later fought in the 8th Army, survived Tunis & Italy
I last saw him in 1987 the year he died, but he looked fit & healthy when I saw him....
He kept on buying me pints of "Webster's Yorkshire Bitter" & spent postwar years as a Coach driver
bi-planes in WW2?!?
Not boody likely. Bi-Wings were SLOW, LOW ALTITUDE (could be AND WERE shot down by service rifles on the ground! ... Remember the Red Baron? He was shot down by a guy in the trenches with a .303 Enfield bolt action rifle, as he flew over.) obsolete, out of service, and sold as surplus (without the guns) to "Barn Stormer's" and crop duster's by 1921/1922, replaced by mono-wings.
There was also significant advancements in rotary engines. WW1 rotary engines were effectively gyroscopes. The HEAVY block and cylinder assembly rotated. The crankshaft was stationary.
Some Post WW1/Pre-WW2 military aircraft were even powered by inline and "V" block cylinder engines.
A bi-wing would be an easy target for any of the faster and more agile WW-2 mono wing fighters.
You REALLY need to do some research BEFORE making silly comments.
The British deployed 2 well-known biplanes during WWII: The Gloster Gladiator and the Fairey Swordfish.
As far as I can tell, the last biplane to see military service is the Soviet/Russian AN-2 biplane, which entered production in 1947, and that line continued until the 2000's.
Sometimes low and slow suits the purpose as far as the AN-2 is concerned.
Google the Battle of Taranto, where obsolete British Swordfish tackled the Italian Navy in WWII.
Chad biplanes > Virgin Fighters
WW2 Ace flyin a WW1 era split wing plane….. WHAT A LEGEND
Great pilots can achieve a lot even when their equipment is not state of the art. Thanks for commenting!
Africa has never had any aces as far as I'm aware of. Pattle was/is European as far as his ethnicity is concerned and South African as far as his nationality was/is concerned. Hopefully there will never be an African ace in the foreseeable future (no wars means no aces, and no wars are definitely a good thing).
If his nationality was south african then he is african. You wouldn't say a black citizen of France isn't french.....
He was born and raised in Africa and a citizen of an African country. I guess that kinda makes him an African.
He was born and raised in Africa and a citizen of an African country. I guess that kinda makes him an African.
he was a white South African,stop referring to him as an 'african'
His skin not dark enough for you? Stop being a racist.
His nationally was South African!
But no problem, from now on I'll refer to blacks with European passports as African!
I am a white African and proud of it!
Fight the prejudices within you.
Pattle and his buddies need better guns.
Stop f***** jammin. !!!
Yes, that apparently was a very serious issue. A pretty big one too :)
I tend to doubt 50-60. I would guess more like 30-40.
He had no gun cameras and the numbers of planes claimed by the British in Greece were generally higher than the number of aircraft they flew.
Read his biography "Ace of aces" by E.C.R Baker.
@@olesuhr727 Biographies aside, one fight he was in he claimed 2 Cr42s, the British as a unit claimed 9, but the Italian records showed a loss of 2 Cr42s.
Top African ace is German Hans Joachim Marseille not that cl🤡wn
Nobody likes a smartass.
So the great liar Marseille was born in Africa like Pat Prattle?
@@robert-trading-as-Bob69 you were there boz🤡? How you know he's a liar?
If we did the same research on "unconfirmed kills" of other aces, he wouldn't be close to first. Your claim is nonsensical and dishonest. It takes away from Pattle as well as many other pilots.
Well, there's something nonsensical here. I agree.