1984 Lore 👁️ "We Shall Meet In The Place Where There Is No Darkness" Meaning, Analysis & Theory
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- One memorable phrase from the novel 1984 is "We Shall Meet In The Place Where There Is No Darkness," but what does it mean?
I also go over my own dark and creepy theory about how Winston first heard the phrase to begin with.
***
This is 1984 Lore, the channel on UA-cam for all things 1984.
If you enjoyed this content then consider dropping a comment and like for the algorithm, as well as subscribing and hitting the bell button for notifications on future videos. Thank you.
#1984 #georgeorwell #dystopia #oceania
I love your take on all things 1984. I think that Orwell is fascinated by our human ability to see unpleasant truths about ourselves and our own situations but then shunt them away from our conscious mind because we have a psychological need to avoid that truth. After all, the greatest practitioner of Doublethink in the novel is Winston himself. The climax of the novel is the moment O’Brien walks into Winston’s cell. Winston is consciously surprised but O’Brien shuts that self deception down by saying “don’t deceive yourself. You did know it. You have always known it.” And Winston knew O’Brien was right. He needed to believe that there was a Brotherhood and some sort of hope of resisting Party rule that he lied to himself. He was practicing doublethink. He knew he was headed to the Ministry of Love and that he was playing along with O’Brien’s charade with Julia, thinking he had a room with some privacy, reading a banned book, joining a revolutionary movement. He knew it was all a lie but he needed it so bad he drove that knowledge from his conscious mind. Winston’s dreams etc were his unconscious mind trying to tell his conscious mind the terrible truth of his own self deception.
One of the best small youtubers
I'm flattered. Thank you.
O'Brien had been playing his little game with Winston for seven years... but not because of anything Winston had done to bring himself to the attention of the Thought Police.
He was selected at random as a toy for O'Brien to have fun. Winston's dream was the opening move of the game.
O'Brien may have selected another victim, at random as soon as Winston had been "perfected".
I always assumed O’Brien was speaking to him over the screen while Winston slept, affecting his dreams.
Don't know if Orwell meant this, but it's an appealing idea.
The place where there is no darkness is UA-cam... I can minimize the tab, but I never close it.
Tbh, I don't think O'Brien has been watching Winston for 7 years, or at least not in particular, that's just something to say to make him feel omniscient to Winston, it sounds Biblical to the 1948 reader, and it unsettles Winston. Winston, like everyone, will have always been uncomfortable with the whole BB setup, so there would be a huge list of minor indiscretions going years back, in theory it would only be the lack of resources that stops Miniluv coming for everyone constantly. Instead, in practise it keeps everyone in a fatalistic sense of impending doom for their 'crimes' and much more pliable, because they feel if they are seen to collaborate, like Parsons, they might get away with things, because sometimes they do. Similarly, they have to come for some people some of the time, to keep up their reputation. Much of what O'Brien says in Miniluv is classic interrogation. He says Julia denounced him immediately for similar reasons, to make everything feel inevitable and omnisciently prophesied rather than it being uniquely shameful that he could not resist interrogation, to take away Winston's individual humanity really, when we see Julia we realize she probably held up longer than he did. It is quite a normal interrogation tactic to both imply you have all the information anyway so confession is just a formality for justice/ the victim's own good,, that you the interrogator are super powerful, and that everyone else has already confessed. Same with the whole counting the fingers thing, it proves to the person they can't withstand physical torture, it breaks their spirit, and that you the interrogator have control over them physically, like a god would have. Orwell had been a colonial interrogator in the past, he was writing about himself as O'B imo.
The place where there is no darkness seems similarly Biblical and prophetic, and I think you are right about post-hypnotic suggestion, especially through the telescreen, it seems a code phrase, but I imagine the 2 minute hate technology etc. probably has a double edge to it, that it allows access to the brain in some way; like the way they seem to be able to 'see' his fear of rats, it is connected to his memory of his sister. It certainly gets everyone to demonstrate overt body language in front of the screen; the angriest people, like the most enthusiastic party members, are probably bluffing/ overcompensating/ projecting in some way. I think the scenes with Parsons and Ampleforth though suggest everything is more random; O'B may use the language of morality, sin and predestination, but it is more like a military industrial complex that needs to find villains to give O'B something to do to support BB and not start fighting for more power internally, like Jones etc. did. He was planting the thought on Winston, in other words, so he could find it on him later. It seems he did something similar to Parsons imo; it is weird the way that Parsons, like Winston, ends up coming out with the same phrase if it isn't in some way coming from O'B. It wouldn't have to be 7 years ago that he did it, just to start messing with his long term memories so that it felt like it had been that long.
I love how the line feels significant because Winston dreamed it. There's a sense of importance and poetry to it, for me.
And the moment Winston says it to O'Brien is almost comical - Winston can infer that somehow O'Brien has some sort of insight into his secret thoughts, making their meeting feel like a noble destiny, while O'Brien's thoughts must have turned straight to the inevitable time when he would see Winston in the Ministry of Love.
I am as ever impressed by your deep dive into this brilliant novel.
Thanks. :D
INGSOC is based on a utopian vision of scientific human progress which devolves into a mystical vision of individual salvation for the political heretic.
1984 is the most important novel of the 20th Century, imo. Orwell warned us what could happen--if we allow it. The smart phone, computers, social media, and the internet, etc. are the modern Telescreen, run by real-life Thought Police. We COULD turn them off, but we don't. And yes, I'm well aware of the irony of complaining about the Internet ON the Internet. I'm sure I have just been added to another list. Good commentary, friend, but you, too, are on the list. Cheers!
This consideration of a very early "seduction" by O'Brien adds to the fascinating sense of doom and ultimate Party domination of all those it governs. Such a grim exercise of power for its own sake...
I always took it to be an indication that Winston was always trapped but also again that strangely O'Brien actually likes Winston. As he says, they have similarly wired brains and O'Brien likes Winston's intellectual outlook, critical mind and even alludes to the fact that he himself was at one time a Thought Criminal. He tortures Winston but there is never any hint of hatred on O'Brien's part. In fact he explains to Winston point blank that the Party is just out for power - and for the sake of power and perfecting power something he realizes that Winston can appreciate as a fellow intellectual.
I think the "place of no darkness" was whispered to Winston during his sleep during his first few days of having committed Thoughtcrime, so Obrien spoke those words via the telescreen, as an ominous prediction, which is why Obrien understood the reference without confusion...
This theory confirms my own theory that additional subtle layers of meaning add detail and refinement to the plain meaning. What Orwell was saying is pretty straightforward (don't let the government dictate everything to you, etc.), but there are higher and deeper aspects to that. While it's true that you can write something that means the exact opposite of the plain meaning of the words (e.g., satire), that's its own genre. Someone who writes satire often speaks plainly in other writing.
1984 isn't just a "let's plop our people into a dystopian setting and see what they do," it's a meaningful message + story combination. The story makes the message concrete and shows the message's implications for somebody's real life.
Your dedication to this work is, quite simply, astounding.
I always assumed something like this myself, but you communicate it better than I ever could.
Their psychological sciences are perhaps the one thing that's more advanced than ours.
It always made sense to me that O'Brien implanted the memory somehow.
That's brilliant. I've read the book many times and I've never thought of that. It makes total sense.
I imagined O'Brien actually standing over the sleeping Winston in his apartment and whispering the phrase in his ear.
I think one of the most alarming things about control, is how it adapts, the phrase may have been a meaningless thought, but given power by speech, and as such cannot be unsaid.
Excellent analysis, as always. For me, the novel comes off as a lot of things open to interpretation, as we're only given Winston's point of view, so, it can be hard to tell how reliable he is as our narrator, if you will.
Where is no darkness there is LOVE!
You really add so much more to this story than I could ever have imagined. You've made me re-examine it many times, and discover new aspects I had missed before. The most troubling was realizing the poem which both Julia and the Thought Police quoted, making me wonder if Julia was a plant after all, working with the Thought Police all along. She's highly intelligent and often committed face crime without repercussion.
I did cover the 'Julia is a spy' theory in another video. I don't believe I mentioned the old rhyme that Charrington and O'Brien used though. Good point. I tilt towards her not being a spy, but I have to admit it's either very suspicious or remarkable that she's escaped detection or more accurately avoided arrest for so long before her time with Winston. She claims to have had many lovers. She began her sex crime at just sixteen. Perhaps the Thought Police were aware of her, but simply allowed her to continue to incriminate others as she was more useful to them doing this than in the Minsitry of Love.
1984 Lore!! They got u too?!!😊
Lol - "They got me a long time ago."