How to: REMOTE Wall System Part 1
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- Опубліковано 28 лис 2011
- The Residential Exterior Membrane Outside Insulation Technique (REMOTE) was developed and tested at the Cold Climate Housing Research Center in Fairbanks, Alaska. The process is unique in that the exterior membrane is placed on the outside of the sheathing, followed by layers of foam insulation.
Hosted by the Cold Climate Housing Research Center's own Dave Shippey, this step-by-step guide is easy to watch and makes learning the REMOTE wall system fast and simple. This two part video is packed with everything a builder needs to know about retrofitting an existing structure or building new construction using the REMOTE wall system. The video follows construction of a small building and each chapter details a different step in the process as well as alternative methods depending on your design.
The video begins with a section on the theory behind the REMOTE wall system then leads into chapters detailing:
• Framing
• Exterior membrane application
• Foam application
• Windows -- interior placement, exterior placement
• REMOTE roof
• Cladding traditional siding, stucco
Whether a do-it-yourself homeowner or a building professional, this guide is a must-have for anyone interested in building a warm efficient home in the North.
Insulation under the slab? Yes. Slabs in this region will have anywhere from 2 to 12” of foam board underneath. Soils temps in interior Alaska average around 36 degrees when you get below the active layer (non permafrost soils) so from an energy perspective, underslab insulation is pretty important.
Using the REMOTE system on the roof would certainly work out fine. In Alaska, it’s generally cheaper to go with cellulose or fiberglass in a vented attic system (typically trusses and a cold roof). If you are in an area with fine blowing snow that could find it’s way into the attic, then foam board on the roof might be a good solution (no attic or a sealed attic). Just be sure you add enough foam board to provide good energy performance and to reduce the potential for ice dams.
In this region 25-30% of total wall insulation can be placed on the warm side of the vapor retarder. It depends on the local climate and the design interior humidity and temp levels. REMOTE typically uses 40% interior humidity and 65 degrees indoor temp as design parameters. In a dry climate such as Fairbanks, indoor humidity levels will rarely go above 25% in winter IF the home is properly mechanically ventilated. This may allow for up to 1/3 warm-side-of-vapor-retarder insulation in some cases
I am a Canadian home builder who uses the Airlight Panel system out of King man Arizona. I save on a 2,000 sq ft home close to $30,000 per house. ( consider I pay a 35% premium on exchange and ship all the way to Ontario) We are now building net zero homes with the system. I believe the reason no one knows about the system is the inventor is an 79 year young operator whom does very little advertising. I found her 3 years go at the Phoenix home and garden show. Her R value will actually go up the colder it gets.
Hi Peter, can't find any information about these other than their website. Any photos or videos of construction?
(2of2) A safe approach is wherever possible to allow for drying paths and drainage planes in wall assemblies rather than depending on the adhesive properties of a particular product to provide the primary protection for a given part of a structure.
THIS is proper building techniques!
R-60 in the roof!
We have carpenter ants. Carpenter ants tend to be attracted to moisture so if you keep the moisture away from the foundation & other parts of the structure it will be a lot less appealing to the ants. In some areas such as Hawaii, treating the site with termiticide during the foundation stage is mandated by code. Also, keep the yard and surrounding environs free of stumps, logs, and other debris/cover that would attract ants as this will only bring them closer to the house.
(1of2) The projected longevity of "modern" caulks and sealants is difficult to gauge - partly because these products haven't been around for 50 plus years and partly because manufacturers are constantly changing the chemical formulations of the products, and lastly because both the climate and the applications in which the products are being used can vary widely.
I'm all for this!
Very interesting video. I'm a carpenter and I'm wondering how they find the best place to put vapor barrier is at 1/3 rather than completly on the interior side as usual canadian construction (the best place to avoid condensation in my opinion). If you work carefully, I guess you could seal as well the envelope and don't worry about the dew point. I'm also wondering at the end of the video why no vapor barrier is apply to the wall, just the roof. Maybe I missed some info about that.
the framing that you have up what is on the other side where it is attached to the old building ??
Is there a price point advantage perhaps to spraying closed cell poly on the exterior between furing strips?
great video. like the reduction in lumber costs over double stud walls, etc... have you used SIPs? Is it easier to piece the coverings over the foam exterior than using a manufactured Insulated Panel?
Thank you. Sustainability will carry the next few centuries!
Hello, I was curious as to how this type of system would work or if it could work, to retrofit an old house that we had pour filled foam (Open Cell Icynene) installed in the walls true 2x4 construction? I would not extend the out the window rough openings but would still like to have a thermal break for the walls with old boards for sheathing not plywood. Would an ice & water shield as the PERSIST system describes be good or House Wrap as in these videos or would it not be good to apply at all, due to the 1/3 inside the cavity issue not being able to be achieved (due to the foam in the walls) because outer 2/3s would have to be about 8 inches of foam. There were several areas that the contractor missed mostly small areas at the top of the wall cavities (balloon framing) and through the studs (bridging). We live in Central Maine. Thanks
Thanks for sharing - vapor barrier or weather barrier?. You want your exterior to be vapor open do you not? If there is a vapor barrier at all, shouldn't it be on the interior? Drying to the outside is the best bet from my understanding as there is generally more humidity on the interior (showering, cooking, etc) - especially in the winter when condensation within the wall assembly is likely more relevant.
Not passive - just climate appropriate and efficient relative to local energy costs. Case in point: Heating Oil is currently over $4/gallon and last winter virtually every day in the month of Jan was -35 or colder. Energy modeling is a useful tool in determining theoretical btu savings in relation to r-values of the different shell components. Alaskan raters primarily use the AKWarm program. I can't add links to responses, but check out AnalysisNorth's website to check out AKWarm.
1. How long does the tape remain stuck to the Tyvek?
2. How long does the Grace remain sealed around the screws at the penetrations?
Where the side foam meets the roof foam..it's only necessary to overlap once and not with each layer?
Hi Great video, the only area I am having a difficulty understanding is how to detail the dupont drain-wrap at the bottom corners where sheathing meets foundation insulation. Wont the geometry of the corner cause the wrap to get split? Here is the timestamp that shows the problem. ua-cam.com/video/1leyQtqVV-A/v-deo.html Additionally, I am concerned that without some sort of slop at the bottom of the sheathing at the foundation/ insulation (similar to using a clapboard under windows to create a slope) for the drain-wrap, what is going to encourage water to drain away from the wall?
How can you guarantee air tightness when you perforate the perforate the vapor barrier with the screws holding the insulation? To me that is a weak point in yr system especially using screws.
Is there any insulation under the slab? It seems this is trying to be passive but there seems to be some points missed such as the slab. Also wanted to ask if the house has no insulation in the walls or if the ceiling has a attic space, would you then put the entire 100% insulation on exterior wall? With the attic would you just insulate the maximum amount or still do the REMOTE roof option?
Do you make any provision for venting the underside of the roof decking? Everything I am seeing here tells me this is dry climate stuff. Here in a temperate rain forest everything has to survive moisture and humidity. I can guarantee you will be getting some humidity driving through from the inside or outside whatever you have so a pathway to remove it must be there or rot will happen especially in products like OSB, engineered lumber etc. Even if it was an occasional or remote possibility you need a drying path. Here in Ketchikan there is a growing concern on the performance of plastic house wraps (Tyvek etc) and many remodel, repair contractors (who really see the performance) are backing away from it back to 30# building paper.
I always love the reference to engineers and architects. I cannot remember any job over the past forty years here that they have been involved in that wasn't rife with flaws and failures a third grader would have caught. From bad foundations, roofs, high inside ceilings (try heating a thirty foot ceiling in a library), doors facing into the prevailing wind, exposed wooden pole rafters over a heated pool (ten years and rotted through 24+ inches), aluminum pool (can anyone spell galvanic corrossion or chlorine).......I could go on forever. They are driven by the percentage of the project they get not by doing a long lasting product. Then they are called back in to fix what they created at more fees. Of course it doesn't help that the city of Ketchikan prides itself on never ever having gone after a bond! But this also applies in private jobs. In some situations they are necessary but they should have a Surgeon General's stamp on their foreheads! There must be a better way. Doug
Douglas Thompson
Hey, great points. I'm getting ready to move to one of my two properties and build a small stick frame cabin (quickest to put up by myself) in either Edna Bay or Meyer Chuck. Have the local builders embraced or repudiated foam, and if they embraced it do they prefer open or closed cell? Do they support insulating between roof rafters and putting metal roof on top of felt paper on top of plywood, or do they leave a gap with furring strips?
I was raised in a very wet part of Oregon, just south of Portland, and definitely agree that felt paper and breathability is the way to go in a wet climate, especially with wood heat.
Have a great day.
This video is fantastic at 1.5x speed.
What about thermal bridging across the screws holding the EPS? It seems like an important detail. Is this not considered significant? Are there other options for fixing the EPS in place?
It isn't significant, no.
I am watching the video (20 min 13 sec area) and I do not understand how one then attaches any roofing such as shingles? The sheathing is under multiple layer of foam. Also the roof trusses don't overhang the exterior walls at all?
At 50:26 they explain the roof, i.e. foam, 3/4 furring strips, and a metal roof.
Researching to build a home here in the interior. This looks very toasty warm. BUT! the cost of foam panels makes this option cost prohibitive. and the cost on fasteners.. OMG! It just seems that a budget was not a factor in the build. A project to build the most efficient 2 bdrm home possible on a materials budget of $30,000 would be most beneficial.
ET!!!!!!
you made my day. i'm going to build a house using your approach. but i stand for firesafe facade materials like this siding.en.ec21.com/Siding--5155242_5156048.html
You are once again putting a lot of faith in semi or unproven building products. Compounded with the fact that it is not a perfect world and funds are not unlimited this method would be experimental. Case in point, you are relying heavily on Grace Water Ice Shield which makes glowing claims about sealing around fasteners etc. etc. I put Grace on my flat roof and watched it over the claimed six months uncovered period. If you extrapolate this may occur at a differing rate depending on slope, heat and time but it will occur. The bituminous coating separates and flows under the plastic sheeting. If this happens on my flat roof in a very cool coastal climate think how much worse it would be under a dark, sloped roofing. Then also if this happens in Ketchikan's mild climate which would be similar to temperatures incurred on the inside insulated surface as you install it I would have no confidence in this product maintaining a water plane over extended periods.
It was in acknowledgement of the real world fact that a perfect water plane cannot be practically built that the 'rain shed' siding procedures were developed. Now you are reverting to an expensive system that depends on that selfsame perfect water plane. And you are extending it to the super vulnerable roof. With no caveat as to where this system might stand a chance of working other than inside a weatherproof warehouse I would not even consider it. You bring it to Ketchikan's climate and show me what it looks like in 15-25 years and we will talk. I would lay money on failure as it is shown.
The unsupported bending moment on your super long installation screws (the practical diameter would seem to be less than 1/4" or other problems amass) as well as condensation as they bridge the thermal gap gives me cause for concern also. Walking on the heads of them (as when building, snow clearing, maintenance etc.) would possibly bend an air channel around the shank exacerbating the problems. You also show them 16" o.c. holding the foam but we have another intrusive layer to hold the roofing on with an additional thermal bridge. Not to mention the mechanical weaknesses that would exist on such a 'floating' system.
I know work has been done on single layers of 2" foam as regards fire hazards (it is required to have a noncombustible covering) but the volumes you speak of are unheard of and once ignited might bring on a total conflagration very quickly.
This doesn't even address getting three inch foam or thicker. Special ordering requires minimums on the order of trailer loads or railcar loads if you can find anyone who would do it. Building up two inch layers just doesn't seem wise when you get to 12+ inches.
It is easy to spend other people's money and call a project 'proven' in the lab without it ever surviving real world budget and performance issues. Time and again we have seen new "Arizona" products and systems trotted out and quickly become expensive failures. Vinyl, HardiPlank, cheap shingles, poorly engineered windows and doors, OSB, etc. etc. all have expensively failed in our real world climate conditions.
I am disappointed to say this sounds more like salesmanship than science derived from an isolated classroom as opposed to real practical application in the world.
Until I see a proven alternate I am sticking with mineral wool batting. It dries out, dampens air movement, is fire resistant, carries a good R value and is practical as well as time proven and available.
Doug Thompson, Ketchikan, Alaska
Its not so much what you use but how.
if I may ask why do Americans still build homes out of wood please ? Here in the EU no one does any more our homes are build of reinforced concrete , steel and brick
+Darren Malin Short answer: "The American Government promotes greed beyond all else. Money is the high priest in our religion and corporations have Carte Blanche with little responsibility. Quick profit rules and quality or longevity have no place at the table. Our politicians are cheap whores who could care less as long as a little dribbles down to their pocket." Pretty much like the EU only worse. Doug
And you had small diesel cars with 50-60mpg. Although you too had planned obsolescence in cars, appliances, clothes etc. We just took consumer rape to a new level to make a very few billionares. New international trade agreements will take it to a universally high level. The new order might not be better for the vast majority or the planet.
Interesting question, but regardless of what building material you use for framing a house, vapor issues, thermal bridging and condensation need to be addressed.
we are extremely slow learners. We waste our forest resources by allowing timber companies to manage the harvest and sale on public lands, about 80% of USA timber land is actually public government owned land. We allow our timber to be decimated between harvests by fire and pests. In between harvests, timber companies spend $0 on timber management so undergrowth builds up, we get a bit of a drought, then a lightning fire destroys the forest. Also, Asia is desperate for our hard and softwood production. Timber companies sell to Asia, all of the timber they can load into shipping containers and send the unprocessed wood to Asia where it is milled and dried into valuable grades, incorporated into furniture and other products and then sold back to the American market at a huge mark up.
I noticed in my weeklong trip to Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland and the Black Forest, that the folks in those regions raise and manage timber like we do crops or gardens. I saw evidence of pruning, thinning pencil point logs ready to go to a mill or chipper. I saw gangs of workers cleaning roadside right of ways were nothing was wasted. Those waste products were not dumped but used a biomass to make electricity.
Yes, there is less acreage in Europe available in Europe for timber production. What I saw was a level of care and management that made up for the quantity with quality of use. I would love to study your timber management and write a book about it some day!
Remember, there are no cities in America that rival Rothenburg ob der Tauber. That walled medieval city had buildings around the square, some four or five stories tall that had plaques identifying the year of construction. 11th- 13th century were not uncommon. Every building but one that was being rehabbed were fully occupied, no vacancies.s told that people are on multi-generational lists to move inside the city walls and waiting lists for some of these retail, office and living spaces were 50 years long.
Americans build everything as cheap as possible, charge as much as possible and have planned service lives of less than 100 years. There is little quality in our buildings. It is so sad.
Best of luck to you!
At one time you did build out of wood but EU depleted the trees through population expansion so you now have to build using concrete, steel and brick. In southern Florida most home walls are steel reinforced concrete block, rot resistant, hurricane resistant, etc. Actually wood is a renewable product. Due to increase of CO2, there is an excess of timber. Logging companies do plant after they cut...they have to if they want to stay in business. It's down to availability, economics and existing conditions. Just like heating, in EU (Germany especially), heat is mostly by hot water systems (very efficient). In US heat is forced air but our climate varies very warm to cold which most people want air conditioning as well and forced air makes this easy to do.
Sorry but this guy is boooring