1898 30-40 Sporterized Krag - Roaring 20's
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- InRange is supported by viewers like you. Every dollar counts!
/ inrangetv
Want to join us for Brutality Matches?
brutalitymatches.org
The 30-40 Krag had a very short service live with the American military, but became the go-to rifle to sporterize during the great Depression and the Prohibition era. I will be using this sporterized Krag for our "Roaring 20's" division at Woodland Brutality 2024, so let's take a look at the gun, its history and what makes it unique and interesting still.
Weird thing to notice but the table has become so recognizable it's practically an in range host in itself. Wouldn't be the same without it. 😂
It was a sporterized Krag that Gregory Peck used in "To Kill a Mockingbird".
This feels like an old InrangeTV Video. I hope you upload more videos like this.
8:33 turns out the hat came in handy
Yes love it and iam sure Carl didnt notice that too.
I believe the notion of US troops being outgunned by 7mm is largely a myth perpetrated by the poor military leadership during the SpanAm war - #1) many of the troops were still armed with trap doors firing BP ammunition, including soldiers on the front line during San Juan Hill - #2) the commanders routinely ordered troops to assault elevated fortified positions across large expenses of open ground, or through marshy terrain that drastically slowed troops assault, giving literally any competent marksman armed with any kind of rifle time to shoot them - #3) if you compare like projectiles (heavy round nose) instead of erroneously comparing WW1 era spritzer 7mm, you see the actual drop at distance is comparable between the two cartridges
The Krag was a scape goat for poor leadership.
Read “The Little War of Private Post”, a first hand memoir of the war by an enlisted soldier. The Mauser situation is clearly described.
I think you’re salty and sore. 7mm is a nice flat shooter, and stripper clips make it easy and quick to reload. Roosevelts roughriders said themselves that they dropped more ammunition than they shit trying to take San Juan. Loose loading is bad.
@@hanisk2 The book I cited was a first hand account and has nothing to do with Roosevelt.
My dad would lead you to believe that he and his brothers wouldve starved if it want for grandpas "punkin roller" krag keeping them fed. Allegedly bought as a surplus from the Denver PD. I found one at a show a few years ago. Someone made a nice walnut monte carlo stock for it, but the barrel is terribly pitted. Ive never fired it.
Doesn't mean that it won't shoot well. Might be finicky for load ( they all can be) IMR - 4350 AND Speer 180g flat bass with some time should produce atleast a proper hunting load accuracy. 2" - 3" group at 100yds. My father's 1899 carbine would and the bbl was so bad you could literally shake a bullet out of the bbl. 2" group at 100yds however change the powder charge by 1/4 grain or less and now you have 6" at 25yds.
Criterion makes match barrels in 4150 for the krag. If you would like to use yours.
@@alt5494that is actually really nice to know
One great in-combat advantage of the Krag was the ability to reload/top off the mag with a round in the chamber and the bolt closed (meaning it is still in battery), something which can not be done with Mauser-style rifles, which have to be taken out of battery to reload or top off.
Yep, I was gonna post that.
My Grandfathers oldest brother had a Krag Carbine that he used for hunting for many decades. I remember thinking how handy, balanced and smooth it was. I wish I could have bought it off him but its long gone.
I have a "Sporterized" Krag, I love it, it was Bubbaed, but Bubbaed well, The barrel is freefloating and glass bedded, she was rusty when I got her, but a lot of wire brush and oil and she runs smooth. While there is some exterior pitting, the bore is shiny bright. I had to get another bolt, because whoever bubbaed it cut the cocking knob from the end of the bolt, I have no idea why. To shoot it, one must reload these days, because 30-40 Krag rounds are $3 apiece!
I have a Norwegian 1894 in 6.5x55.
It is an absolute joy to shoot, smooth, mild, and accurate.
The magazine is a curious, kinesthetic joy to operate. Frankly, the fact that it was ever a military rifle feels strange when you handle it, as it is so narrow and refined in the hand.
Really fascinating rifle, and my favourite in my collection. Greetings from the UK.
I've always marveled at the Krag's loading method: Chuck in a fistful of bullets, close it, and magic sorts out the mess. I never quite understood how the relatively small motion of opening and closing was enough to put sufficient spring pressure on five rounds to operate.
There's a follower and spring that folds out when the door is closed
The magic is the follower and spring. They get retracted into the underside of that door. Truly maddening engineering at work
Through a very clever camming mechanism yes. And that spring does double duty; it also holds the loading gate biased to either fully open or fully closed as required, by the cam snapping over center.
The US failed by not adopting it in 6,5x55.
That is indeed a much better caliber, unfortunately it had not been developed yet when the Americans adopted their version of the Krag in 1892.
The 6.5x55 cartridge design was sort of in development at the time, but only got finalised in 1893 for adoption in the Norwegian Krag model 1894 and the Swedish Mauser rifles. The US simply jumped in a tiny bit too early to get the more refined and much flatter shooting Norwegian version. But the conservative powers that be probably wouldn't have accepted anything smaller than .30 anyway.
A friend of mine, who raises Bison, has photos of an Island buffalo hunt from I believe 1920. All of the hunters are using surplus Krag rifles.
Man I love the sound of the 1920's style match!
I bought mine when 15 years old....65 now....still own and use it.
Reloading the Krag's magazine was simple and effective for hunters and field shooters, but loose rounds were a liability for the military, in the beginning of the Age of Stripper clips that Mauser introduced. It was just faster, and more controlled. Jeff Cooper praised the slick operating of the Krag over all other bolt guns, as well. Good job, Karl!
The Norwegian Army (which used the Krag through WWII) developed a stripper clip for the Krag.
@@gregb6469 None of the Norwegian Krag-Jørgensen rifles take stripper clips. The closest thing would be the speed loaders (most common being the Andersen & Braathen). They became very popular in competition circles, but was never adopted militarily
College buddy of mine in the 90s used one of these for deer hunting and absolutely loved it.
The 1927 "Bannerman Catalogue of Military Goods" has, on page 54: "U.S.A. Krag Jorgensen rifles, calibre 30-40, as used by the U.S. Army and Militia before the change to Springfield calibre .30 rifle. These rifles have been used but are in good condition WITHOUT EXTRAS at $12.50 each." They also offered Krag rifles "in fine order", with bayonet, sling, web cartridge belt, and 20 rounds of ball ammo for $20. That same page has surplus, refinished 1903 Springfield rifles for $19.50 each; and Canadian Ross rifles in .303 for $8.50 each. Next page has: "Krag Sporter, caliber 30/40 with 22 inch barrel, five shot. Military sights for 2000 yards. All in good condition. Special price $11.85 each." A box of 20 new .30-40 cartridges, hard or soft nose, cost $1.70. And same page, Model 1917 military rifles, refinished with new barrels, at $12.50. Ball .30-06 cartridges are $3.50 per 100 (not on stripper clips).
I remember Schultz carrying a Krag in ‘Hogan’s Heroes’.
man slapped the magazine closed like the krag had just whispered "harder"
Freaky aah comment
I have a Ruger No 3 in 30-40 Krag and the great part about that is since the No 1 and No 3 system are so rock solid, you can get 30-40 ammo loaded up to 30-06 velocities and the rifle easily eats it. I load my 30-40 with 150 Grain bullets I use for my M1 Garand Loads and 3031 pushing about 2700 FPS. Absolute laser of a cartridge out to about 300 yards. My issue with 30-40 Krag is the same issue I have with 22-250, that being brass right now is basically unobtanium levels. You can make 30-40 brass with 303 Brit but 30-40 Brass when you can find it and 303 go for the same price and are at about the same level of availability.
I never cared about the Krag until I noticed that they were often used as props in place of Mausers on Hogan's Heros.
Not strictly inaccurate since the German used captured Krags as a weapon for rear area troops.
The concept that anyone might assemble a collection of sporterized firearms never occured to me, but i suppose anything is possible.
I must confess I seriously love the look of this.
I must confess you need electroshock therapy because something is badly, severely wrong.
I agree.
When I bought my Browning M1895 in .30-40 two decades ago, ammo was non-existent even then. I did have a supply of OF .303 Brit brass in my ditty bag. I lubed and sized these in my FL resizer with one pass. Instant-presto Krag brass, that never needs case trimming! As I mostly shot my own lead projectiles at velocities reminiscent of the 19th Century, life was good. "The Load" from C.E. Harris (formerly of the American Rifleman) data worked like a charm. But alas, that Browning has long since been traded off and now who knows where it calls home. Good video, sir.
They are often used by VFW and American Leogon honor guards.
I still have my father's sporterized Krag. He brought down some big old muleys with it back in the 50s and 60s.
I really like the period of immediately before WW1 to immediately after. It produced some of the most interesting firearms.
I really want one of these. The magazine system is so weird and cool.
I have a sporterized 30-40 Krag, (mine is date: 1888) great rifle. One of the smoothest bolt-actions I have ever seen.
Me too, its a really nice non-scoped hunting rifle for my purposes. If these were made nowadays, it would cost 2K+.
One day, I'm hoping to get another that was sporterized & has a pitted bore and rechamber it to 7MM Mauser, seems like a great host for it.
if these were just rechambered to 7mm Mauser the military would've probably still used it through WW2 tbh.
The Krag made it into at least one movie that I know for certain. In To Kill a Mockingbird. Atticus Finch (Gregory Peck) shoots a rabid dog in the street with one.
That's a really genius design. Amazing.
Such a cool magazine system, never copied.
I wonder if it has something to do with the difficulty reloading under combat stress one round at a time over a simple stripper clip?
@TheLOAF90 cool system 😎, but yeah, I'd much rather have the stripper clips for real world fighting!
Any discussion about the Krag rifle and the transmission on to the 1903 and then the Garand is fascinating. Thanks for that and the shooting demonstration. I love how the spent casings dance through the air during ejection.
One of my favorites. I have a Norwegian speed loader modified for 30-40.
My Dad had an unmodified one that we hunted with up until the 1970s. Never knew the history behind these rifles. Only knew they were heavy and I didn't want to carry it around all day when I was a kid. Thanks for the insights. Don't have any idea where it ended up. Mom just gave a lot of his stuff away.
My grand dad had one of these in the original configuration.
I have an 1899 carbine, that thing has the smoothest action of any service bolt gun I’ve felt
I now have a Krag but it needs a deep cleaning. It is still in its original military configuration. With that I have every single center fire rifle the US used from the Krag to the M-16. Two of them are a M1903 and M1917 my dad sportarized decades ago. I wish they were still in military configuration but back when he did that every body did it. If I ever can I will look into getting them restored.
Why am I feeling the desire to tune up my 94 and through back on the tang sight. Yeah 30-30 is a little challenging, but it and my model 10 are screaming for some fun.
Love mine. The bolt is soooo smooth and the recoil is very light.
Thank you good sir! I have two of these to sell at the moment, I appreciate the bump in awareness!
Watch out, the ATF is classifying everyone as an unlicensed gun dealer and wants to give out Felonies.
Very cool looking rifle.
Another informative and entertaining video - thank you 👍🏼
Well done. Super smooth action. Neat old rifles.
Even in the 50s and 70s this was considered an excellent deer rifle when used with soft point loads. I have been tempted to buy one a few times, but never did. They are beautiful rifles.
Mine's a keeper. Somebody did a REALLY nice job on it, ca. 1940s - new 18.5" barrel, full length stock with schnabel tip, three leaf sight, reblue, correct barrel banding, etc etc etc. Very fun, useful, and elegant rifle!
Whatever you think of it as a military rifle, the US Krag is an excellent recreational rifle. I am very fond of my non-sporterized 1898.
I love the Krag, the loading system seems genius to me. Easily my favorite US issued bolt action. Its a shame that loading system didn't catch on with more modern guns, its definitely useful at the range where often loading is so fiddly with other guns of that era.
Have two sporterized Krags, one in a Bishop stock with a side mounted scope for hunting. The second is a rifle turned into a carbine with the rear sight removed and replaced with a peep.
So much I don't know about 1800s calibers and rifles you can never stop learning there's endless information
That recoil looks like a fairly gentle shove than an impact
A very underrated innovated rifle, another underrated rifle is the Savage 99 lever action
I have never handled one, but I must say, it looks like a lot of fun. My dad told me once that his father had one (rifle, not carbine) at one time, but it was stolen. Dad said that he really loved that rifle as the action was so smooth. The closest that I have come to anything that old is the three cartridges that my great grandfather brought back from his service in the Spanish American war. I guess that they are Krav cartridges, but since he served in the Pacific theater, they could be 6mm Lee Navy. I don’t know enough about either to be able to tell the difference.
I have an original carbine Krag. Super smooth bolt action and love the side loading hopper. Very handy gun. You would think they would have just started making it with 2 or 3 bolt locking lugs if that was needed.
I believe a sporterized Krag is in "To Kill A Mockingbird" movie
Yes, a cutdown carbine. You can tell because they mounted a 1903 front sight on it after they cut down the barrel.
8:34 THE BRASS ON THE HAT
i hope to god that you kept that brass…. they only run the 30-40 line every 10 years
Remington seems to be selling it in droves but the price is…😬
Brass can be reformed from 303 British failry easily. The neck will be short, but doesn't effect how it shoots. Fun fact, the 303 brit was the parent case of the 30 40 army.
I use brass fired once from a lee enfield, a heavy 308 bullet and Varget to great effect.
Note that hollow and flat points can jamb before the chamber as there os no real feed ramp......more like a feed director....ish.....lol
Side note.....PPU brass has been great. S&B has experienced cracking......I believe "softer" brass to be better in this case.
Thanks
I used to have a sporterized version with a scout scope. It was accurate, smooth and with very little recoil. I traded it for a delivery Jeep (DJ-5). I miss it often.
Mine is an 1898 NRA carbine passed down from my grandfather and is the first centerfire rifle I ever fired. I fired sub MOA grops wit it after changing to a Redfield peep sight...and with much younger eyes! They are a wonderful rifle and ballistically would have matched the 7x57 Mauser if they had loaded 180 grain bullets.It's also nice to be able to load the magazine while still having a shootable rifle in your hands. The Norwegians came up with an ingenious speed loader for it also!
The brass in your Hat at the end was perfect!!
Very impressive and nice rifle.
Fantastic rifle, one of my "favorites from a far" never having handled one. Seems like a nice, soft shooting rifle round. The 1920s matches seem like a great idea, I'm staying tuned for more related gun and match videos!!
I've always wanted a Krag rifle. At the time, this was cutting edge firearm technology and I'm a sucker for firearms like that.
I've seen a casing catch before but not quite like that. I think you are *ahead* of the trends! And damn. That is one cool rifle.
Run that bolt like you mean it, Karl!
Very Cool Gun
Honestly, for hunting purposes, if someone had a trapdoor in the 1920s for hunting, there really wouldnt be much reason to get a Krag, considering most people dont shoot past 200 yards
If you shoot beyond 200, you are the exception compared to the average person, who seems to be pie plate accuracy at 25 yards.
Nice hat and very cool rifle.
I had one and like a jackass sold it for some stupid reason. With a Lyman front ramp and rear peep it would shoot sub 2" groups at 100 yards with Winchester 180 gr Silvertips. The action of the rifle was one of the smoothest bolt actions I've ever owned and the 2 stage trigger was more than up to the test. If I cold find one in decent condition today I would buy it in a split second. the only short fall of these guns is that they fired black powder rounds and you rarely find one without severe bore pitting though it didn't effect the accuracy of mine. Glad to see an old war horse get it's due.
I would eye on the idea of purchasing a beat up Krag with a terrible bore and get a gunsmith to convert it to 7MM Mauser, 444 Marlin or 6.5 Swedish, or just outright buy a Norwegian Krag in 6.5x55 Swedish.
These would probably be fun options to run through a Krag. I have heard of some 7mm Krag conversions throughout the years, mainly already done conversions of krag rifles in the late 40s and rifles being bought down the line.
A friend of mine has a 444 Marlin chambered Krag he got from his grandpa. Probably one of the most nicest converted guns I have shot, and ammo isnt too difficult to get, nor ridiculously expensive, I am pretty sure that It requires no modification besides a new bore.
After WWII a lot of American Legion posts had these for ceremonies. During hunting season the local one here would rent you the gun for $1 per day. And yes, I have a Krag that still get shot.
It may be conjecture, but from a ballistics standpoint it looks like a hopped up 30-30 with a better bullet. 30-30+p? Great content Karl.
Just for fun because I am bored, I measured the rear aperture on a Krag. It measured at .067 (#51 drill bit). On a Stevens boys pocket rifle the rear aperture is .0225 (#74 drill bit). The Stevens aperture is .33% of the Krag. The Stevens wont shoot as far (.32 rimfire vs .30-40 Krag). The smallest aperture on a Hadley disk for vernier tang sight, think Quigley, is .021. They must have had better eyesight in the past.
In Norway, Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk who built the Norwegian Krag Jørgensen. After ww2, there was little of everything, the germans had taken all the guns. So people needed hunting rifles. Kongsberg rebuilt some Krags to hunting rifles. Basically by changing the barrels with some German mashine gun barrels they had. So they made 500 rifles in 8x57IS. Named M48. I have one, all original.
I was never interested in one of these until now
I had one. The serial number indicated it was manufactured in 1898. It, too, was sporterized, and a very nice job it was, too. The biggest difference between the one I had and the one on your table is mine had a receiver mounted peep sight. It was very pretty and shot well.
Thank you for the review sir. I had the good fortune to own a Krag many years ago. I look forward to your reviews of firearms for these matches. I hope to see some revolvers. The old Smith and Wesson hand ejector s, Colt New services. Thanks again.
I have one of these that was sporterized. Mine has a Bishop stock. Rosewood fore end and pistol grip cap, white spacers and it is a really neat rifle. And it still knocks the crap out of a deer.
Thats a beutiful example of a sporterized gun.
Honestly, I find myself wondering how things might've changed if instead of dropping the Krag for the 1903, they had simply reworked it to add a second locking lug to the bolt. I doubt they could've loaded it up to .30-06 levels because of the case capacity, but surely they could've at least gotten it to match 7mm Mauser.
I don't have sufficient experience to know, but does anyone have any insight if the side-loading was better, worse, or about the same as using a clip from the top? One obvious advantage I could see to it would be if you attach a scope, it won't get in the way of loading (but how much of an advantage that really is, who knows?).
Took my first deer with my Great Grandfather's sportsterized .30-40 Krag. He did it himself and it has the std. military stock. I load it now with Sierra 150 gr. Gameking Bullets. The deer it took first was with old Winchester power points which basically didn't expand well. I also took several rabbits and grouse with it using head shots and ONLY when shooting at a hill backstop. I keep pressures down in the 45k range and it's very pleasurable to shoot. I did the ultimate bad thing and put one of the bolt on side mount scope mounts, because I cannot see the irons good enough.
I bought one just like this, except the stock was original and they got rid of the rear right in favor of a quick reset peep sight. Got it for $250, my dad loved it and always wanted one, so I sold it to him for what I paid. It's a great rifle, better than my 30-30, but the ammo can be hard to find and not cheap. I think the front sight on mine was for a Springfield 1903, and I took it hunting once, but didn't get anything. Mine was also missing the cutoff, which really sucked. I was also lucky to find an old style sling for it as well.
I have a 1898 Krag in Military rig, but I have never been able to find ammo for it. But the action is still so smooth.
Instead of upping the powder charge of the .30-40 round, why didn't they just reduce the weight of the bullet from 220 grains to 150 (or fewer) grains? That would have significantly raised the velocity, without damaging the lug.
Interestingly, you typically put more powder in for a lighter bullet(counterintuitive to me, but so it goes...it takes more powder to create the initial pressure that starts the bullet moving) so while the initial pressure isn't any higher, there is more powder being burnt, and my conjecture is that this would lead to a hotter barrel, thus faster wear.
This isn't as much of an issue with today's modern powders, or with modern bullet tech....remember that although Spitzers were used back then, they weren't understood to the degree that they are today, so there would probably have been flight stabilization issues in a barrel with a 1:10 twist rate ( I know alot of modern 308s are the same two rate and start at around 147 grains.....but again, we understand Spitzer bullet tech alot better now....and still use more than one lug nearly always!)
This was a military rifle first.....and longevity had to be balanced with efficiency.
Now that's what I think a rifle should look like.
Good looking sporter there
Love a good rotary mag! Savage 99 is easily my favorite rifle.
Interestingly, both the Swedish (in 6.5 x 55) and Norwegian (in 8 x 58R) Krag-Jørgensen rifles have two locking lugs. The single front locking lug, same as the US and a 2nd lug that is formed by the rib on the bolt, at 90° to the front lugs, so locking at the rear, just like a Lee Enfield. The US, in it's wisdom, didn't machine the rear lug to engage, so it only acts as a fail-safe secondary safety lug in the event of failure of the front lugs. Had the US used two lugs then it could almost certainly have uprated the 30-40 ballistics.
Sweden didn't have Krag-Jørgensen rifles, they used the Mauser in 6,5x55. Danes had Krags in 8x58.and the Norwegians went for 6,5x55.
Norwegians did make them in different calibers for testing purposes/export to other countries of course.
@@Kraakesolv - you're absolutely right, of course, it was the Norwegian not the Swedes!
Depends on what year model, magazine lever up = off or lever down = off 😮
My first hunting rifle rifle was a sporterized Krag. So many things I absolutely love about the Krag. Sure, the magazine system poses problems in combat, but when hunting I actually prefer it to a Mauser-derived action and similar. The only complaint is the single lug bolt which limits what can fired through it. A modernized Krag with an improved locking bolt chambered for a modern cartridge would be an amazing hunting gun, in my opinion.
The Krag system is the best bolt-action rifle system ever made. I saw one of these in a gun store a while back, but they wanted far more for it than I could afford, so I had to pass on it. :(
Best action? Hardly....
@@WALTERBROADDUS -- Smooth-operating, easiest to load--what's not to like?
I wonder what the weapon of choice would have been for the Wobblies (IWW members, my union) in the 20s. The General Defense Committee was very active in defending workers against both the Feds and non State reactionaries
I would expect your typical Winchester or Remington rifle of the time.
I have a sporterized Krag that is very similar looking. It’s nice that it handles like a Krag carbine, but was much MUCH cheaper than an authentic carbine. Buttery smooth action and someone did a very nice job of adding a semi-pistol grip to the stock that looks seamless until you inspect it very closely.
Moe
e content like this would be great, Karl. 👍
Friends dad has one. Among the first center fire i ever shot. The bix magazine is odd to modern eyes
Love the look of Krag-Jorgensens, shame it was bubbad when you got it.
Neat!!
There's something about the way the Krag and Mosin handle rimmed rounds.
The US Krag-Jorgensen was arguably the weakest of the Krags. The Danes used theirs until WW2, chambered for the more potent 8x58R Danish Krag round that outclasses the .30-40 by any measure (initially 237-grain roundnose, then 196-grain spitzer at 2,500fps).
For a sporting rifle, I really like the dump loading. It is easy and handy to use. As a martial rifle, not so much. I find it likely if someone is shooting back at me, I am likely to dump half my rounds on the ground trying to reload.
If you have a firearm that was avvalible during the 20s but your particular example was produced later, is it still okay to use at the match? For example, I have a Remington bolt action sporting rifle that started production in 1910, but this particular one was made in the late 1930s. Same with this old Sears shotgun that was made in the 1940s, but was a model available in the mid 40s. Knowing you, I would guess as long as it does not have newer features, the exact date of manufacturing is not important...but I am open to correction on that.