The Case Against Education: Government Spending $1 Trillion a Year on Schooling Is a Waste of Money
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- Опубліковано 21 січ 2018
- Economics professor Bryan Caplan makes the case against education.
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"It's absolutely true that school makes people show up, sit down, shut up and that these are useful skills for people to have in adulthood, " says Bryan Caplan, a professor of economics at George Mason University, who blogs at EconLog, and is the author of the new book The Case Against Education: Why the Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money. "So the real question is if all we're trying to do is prepare people for a job, why not prepare them with a job?"
Caplan argues that schools are not only overpriced, but that traditional education fails to prepare students with job skills that reflect the needs of the labor market.
Reason's Nick Gillespie sat down with Caplan to make the case that the government needs to spend so much on education if it isn't relevant to our success in getting a job and earning higher wages.
Reason is a proud media partner of National School Choice Week, an annual event promoting the ability of parents and students to have greater options in K-12 education. Go here [schoolchoiceweek.com] to get more information about events and data about how increasing school choice--charters, vouchers, educational savings accounts, and more-is one of the best ways to improve education for all Americans. For a constantly updated list of stories on education, go to Reason's archive page on "school choice".
Interview by Nick Gillespie. Edited by Alexis Garcia. Camera by Meredith Bragg and Mark McDaniel.
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When you think about it, life in school has a lot more in common with life in prison than it does with real world society.
But then when you think about it some more, you realise that it actually isn't _more_ like a prison than real life, and you wonder how you came to such a silly conclusion.
Syntaxus Dogmata what's funny about that is that the school I went to for my first 2 years was designed by a prison designer.
Tom Smith - What isn't more like a prison than a school? I think you completely misread my comment.
Sorry, mis-typed my comment, I've edited it to make sense now! (ftr I originally had 'school' in the place of 'real life')
Tom Smith - There's also no hyphen in "mistyped." Another ringing endorsement for school.
As an early 20yo, i have become much more interested in reading history, and science than i ever was in school and have learned much on those subjects since I graduated. You learn better when you are actually interested in what you're learning.
pick up a trade such as welding
He's opposing the education system rather than people being educated.
Absolutely.
Not necessarily. He argues that people are getting educated on topics or skills that have no long run benefit for them.
Jonathan Sawyer yeah, so the education system.
He clearly says the opposite at the very start. He's not saying educate people through a different system. He's saying lets spend less time in school, cause it's not building skills, but shows off your traits (intelligence, work ethic, conformity, etc)
Kiiro Sagi maybe I'm stupid, but I don't understand what your comment means. And, for clarity, I'm stupid
Certainly explains why the cost of education has increased so much while the cost of learning has plummeted.
But nobody seems to be noticing. You can learn real skills on Skillshare.com for $99/year. Compare that to $30k/year for college.
Colleges will charge as much as the federal government is willing to give out in loans.
@jhan bass Its an admission that the capitalist don't need anyone anymore since they've got plenty of maids and pool boys.
@Morgan Allen Yes, and you don't even need Skillshare. Most of that kind of stuff can be found on UA-cam, for free!
When I tell people I’ll probably homeschool my kiddies, they always ask “what about socialisation?” as if school is the place where you’re encouraged to naturally interact and express yourself appropriately, and aren’t being told to shut up every five minutes
At school, at least in my country, you can't even go to the toilet without permission. That is not how living in a civilised society should feel, especially when kids are the future and are being formed in those years.
Do it.
Homeschooled professor here: the homeschool advantage is huge.
My rant about it: ua-cam.com/video/vAoGJfyyIK8/v-deo.html
@@HomeschoolProf Wow, thanks. I watched it from that time stamp, and there was some good stuff there.
I'll probably go back and go through it from the beginning later :)
Emily, they actually believe that's the way people should act.
if you want socialization just put them in local sports, helped me enormously and lots of schools let them play as long as you have your health stuff in order. -someone who was homeschooled their entire life
Having people forced to be there degrades the benefits for the people who want to be there. It's one major reason the US has a volunteer military. The effectiveness of conscripts is pretty poor.
And those conscripts wouldn't have a reason to be highly motivated to do their best. If they are in a situation where they don't want to be.
@@jasonlee6227
We see this in the latter half of a major conflict. Most of the troops surrender.
That’s Vietnam in a nutshell. Even though WWII involved conscription too, at least public support for the war was so high that objections to the draft were minimal, unlike Vietnam.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is how useful you feel when you work. You do things that matter to other people, you have a sense of purpose, which in turn motivates you to become even better at what you do, i.e. study more. In school you have no feedback, because you can't see if the things you learn are useful or not.
It is sad that we spend our most formative years in school. This is the time of our lives when we have the greatest ability to learn, and we waste it on memorizing useless stuff. Imagine how much more skilled everyone would be if they instead started working as apprentices at an early age. As we learned the job, we could naturally see what courses to take to advance our careers, and we would be ten times as motivated to study. Our employers might also want to sponsor that education.
Great points. 12 to 16 years of full-time education stunts maturity. That time is focused on oneself. Working requires focusing on serving the needs of others.
I see lots of kids pouring themselves into sports, which I did too. It would have been so much more useful to pour myself into gaining a job skill, e.g., welding, car repair, etc. I would have been even more useful to combine that with working.
brilliant!
Agreed. I learned this myself not too long ago. I'm 18 and I'm taking my senior year of high school online so I can work as an apprentice finishing concrete, and I recently earned my pilots license which I'm using the money I'm making to fly more and build more hours and then a career in flying. Ever since I started working I've learned multitudes more about how to make it in this world than my (so far) 11 years of school have. It's ridiculous how pointless school is and how much time I'm required to put into it for a diploma that means I haven't learned anything but I passed the test.
@@iceberglettuce890 Good for you! I hope you'll succeed.
I learnt more math from programming than from school at this point. Only doing precalc but still.
This professor should be speaking in front of the Congress.
Pablo Gomez I suggest editing this, you might've made a mistake.
Maybe, but Congress is probably too stupid to understand him.
Sheep dont listen.
And Congress will utilize that social desirability bias to posture for their constituents
@Nika D Education is important, but it gets conflated with academics far too often.
What he is against, (and I am also) is NOT 'education' but rather 'schooling'. Schooling seems to be the enemy of education: It trains people WHAT to think rather than HOW to think.
It is a somewhat facetious title, yes. But I think he did that intentionally to be provocative, and frankly, sell more copies.
Education has two agendas:
(1) teach social engineering;
(2) land you in endless debt.
How is endless debt the fault of "education". The debt comes from capitalism. Forcing colleges to take a market model. You need to think more critically. It's just embarrassing.
@@santouchesantouche2873 , there is nothing truly capitalist about the university system which is soaking up more taxes and subsidies every year. Name one year where the government actually spent less on education at any level.
@Andrea Mendenhall what grants? Not the grants given to corporations right?
@@santouchesantouche2873
Grants given to corporations are just as un-capitalistic as any other.
@@bobhatesrainbows I would suggest that companies just simply wouldn't survive without the public sector. Public risk is private gain.
I regret choosing a 4 year college education instead of going to a trade school. My degree has never paid off for the amount of money that it cost.
eyesalooking yeah I hear you. Took me a long time to pay off my debts and then I realized I didn’t like working in a corporate environment but I had no choice in order to earn enough to pay off my loans.
@@1234kingconan Nobody likes working in a corporate environment. What we need is a good old-fashion zombie apocalypse to put things back on track.
@@Lord_Volkner Libertarians have a cookie for you as an incentive.
@@kimobrien. Libertarians also have sanity, which is more than can be said the the Democrats and Republicans these days.
@@Lord_Volkner Libertarians dream of a world with no class struggle. It's really as crazy as Mao making steel in every village or Ghandi home spinning cotton only on a mass scale. Basically it's a doctrine to justify capitalist exploitation. It's holy priests are developing it much like a new religion. The love a "free market". Everyone is going to sit cross legged outside their home with something to sell while their mate goes shopping.
public school is basically day care while parents are at work.
Exactly
In the last two to three decades, public school has become a vehicle for indoctrination by left-wing zealots.
And the university is a continuation of that day care.
Eliminate high school. Send the smarter kids to college, and let the rest go through an apprenticeship program so they can work.
Vlad the guru stop digging a hole
He is right acadmically speaking by the 5 grade parent and teacher know if there child will go to college or not vs waisting time learning a trade can make more with a license or certificate than u can with a college degree. If somone is bad student. F D C student why even go ro college serisouly waist your time bring the trades back so u can make better money with a trade vs working at McDonald's!!!!!
He is right acadmically speaking by the 5 grade parent and teacher know if there child will go to college or not vs waisting time learning a trade can make more with a license or certificate than u can with a college degree. If somone is bad student. F D C student why even go ro college serisouly waist your time bring the trades back so u can make better money with a trade vs working at McDonald's!!!
Yep. This is really the solution.
yes
because lesbian dance theory doesn't pay well
Be fair now. I did some research and discovered that there is a number of jobs that require a degree 'lesbian dance theory.'
(zero is a number)
I still cant believe thats real, what does ut even mean
@@endofmybloodline Lesbian dance theory prepares you for.... teaching lesbian dance theory in a public school? Isn't that nice? (Jk it's absolutely useless in the real world)
This interviewer is great. He read the book, drawing out information and answers to questions most people would, while allowing the guest elaborate on ideas they wrote.
"Whenever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state education. It has been discovered that the best way to ensure implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery." - Benjamin Disraeli, 1874
Higher education is mostly an over priced IQ test.
Except its not very good at measuring iq. Have you seen some of the people with degrees? Heard them speak?
Once you get outside them stem fields its a lot of leftist indoctrination.
I think it is much more of an extremely over priced brainwashing program.
It is pretty good at measuring IQ. The smart ones either don’t go, or they get a degree in something relevant that will pay for itself.
More like "a very prolonged conscientiousness test that also tests your IQ somewhat if you're into select one of few actually challenging degrees like STEM or finance or philosophy"
I feel like I never REALLY learned anything until AFTER I graduated school.
So you learned how to write and read after graduating school?
@@greenskydiver427 Merry Christmas
@@josematias2010 I learned that at home. There was no one on one in school...a lot of repetition of stuff I already knew though.
People education system sucks sometimes, but we must at least provide a minimum standard for all, even reading and writing must be taught in school, not all parents can or willing to do it, so society must provide this. In my country a culture exam for university admission was abolished, because the content was not taught in school, so that knowledge was very dependent in the environment were you grew, lets say a kid raised by lawyers was exposed to certain vocabulary, and that was unfair. So yeah some kids have advantage for having good kindergartens or families, but the system is made for all. Should we tailor it to students, yes of course, but even in rich countries like Norway I hear parents complaining about the number of students, now, imagine the amount of capital to personalize.
@BabylonianDynamics well I rather be on a society that sets this as a minimum and not on the will of 6 year old kids. I believe that school should me more gamified, since that's what we are competing with, gaming. More physical games which is very important for boys, and VR can bring this. Yes we should give some freedom in the path, but some minimums must be achieved in various areas. When I took my STEM I had lots of subjects that seemed more like science than engineering, but some stuff like statistics it's quite useful.
8th grade was probably the most useful education of my life. The four related arts are music, art, home economics, and wood shop. Math class taught us how to do “living on your own” expenses. Music and art are very healthy for the brain, and allows us to get into good rhythms and routines. And home ec, we learn cooking and sewing. So we can learn to cook our own meals and learn how to fix our clothes, furniture, and such with fabric. And wood shop teaches carpentry, and allows us to learn how to fix all kinds of physical things around our house. Above all, all four allow us to create things instead of buying, which saves money and lets us make our mark as individuals.
What underlies the idea that we can all become happier, healthier and wiser by spending more time in school, is an epic confusion of cause and effect.
Yes, education regardless of its utility or cost (or ideological brainwashing) is supposedly a virtue. It assumes people couldn't learn as they work.
Finland actually does this, which is why it is constantly at the top of world education metrics. They have 8-year-olds making stuff in a woodshop in elementary school and give them more than twice as much time to play outside as US elementary schools do. You've got more than half the population in the trade sector because kids actually know what they like when it's time to go to either vocational school or standard university. The kid isn't forced to go in any particular direction, they just ask them where their interests lie and they gear them towards it until the kid wants to try something new. In the US, they give you a general education and then ask you to determine where your life is going at 16 without having really tried anything. It's no surprise that more young people chose what their parents told them was the safe option.
In reality it doesn't work much better because young people commit to a degree or direction at a point where they know nothing. Spending 5 years in uni to get a useless sociology degree to work in a useless municipal job they will hate isn't a good end result.
Paul Simon said it all "when I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all, and my lack of education hasn't hurt me none, I can read the writing on the wall." When you get to high school, you should pick your career. If your hands on and want a skill trade, that's all you do for 4 years. If you want to join the military, you take course that prep you, college prep, etc. The one shoe for a all high school curriculum is garbage.
This is so true. I work in the construction field. Been in the same field for over 16 years now and we will get these kids coming in after 4 years of college and They Don't Know Jack shit. Me, a guy that has never went to college is teaching the college kids how to do their job. Nothing trumps experience not even a moron with a $200 College course book and 150k college tuition.
but that's construction. there are a lot of jobs in construction that are more hands-on and don't require a college education. I understand if these college students you describe is applying for a supervisory position that may require some minor accounting and management skills, but who the hell goes to college to be a construction worker? College is beneficial and many times even necessary for jobs like in healthcare, certain parts in engineering, law, etc. To say school is "completely useless" is a biased statement and nothing more. I agree some changes can be made with the system though, especially cutting down on the course requirements that isn't directly relevant to the career the student is pursuing.
"Nothing trumps experience not even a moron with a $200 College course book and 150k college tuition."
WORDS OF WISDOM!
Don’t blame the young people! Your generation are in control, and did this to us! In my country, the employers who control the labour market, prefer hire immigrants, because their cheaper!
College is useless? I'll tell you what, you live in an apartment tower conceived, designed and built solely by school drop outs. And I'll stick with my college educated one. Deal? Thought so...
But if the construction business takes a downturn, what do u do? Or you get injured? At least those kids have a degree and career opportunities that you won't have.
The purpose of the system is to keep children in custody so that their parents (especially mothers) can go to work, then out of the workforce and off the unemployment rolls until they can be trusted with jobs appropriate to their social status. The collateral damage is that they are infantilised by the process.
The Duke of Wellington promoted education because the franchise was being extended, (he said something like "We must educate our masters". Around the same time, unions promoted compulsory education to eliminate labour-force competition from children. Post-WWII the GI bill was designed to slow the flood of demobilised soldiers back into the workforce, (which had caused problems after WWI), and inadvertently set the pattern of requiring college degrees for employees.
Many years ago when I was pursuing my bachelors, I requested some substitutions for required courses. I tried to take a creative writing class in lieu of a literature survey course, an introductory music theory course (which would teach reading music) instead of a music appreciation course, and a basic drawing or painting course instead of the required art appreciation course. Each of my preferred courses would actually teach me something I could use. Unfortunately, the dean of the liberal arts department, as well as each of the liberal arts professors I mentioned this to, was adamantly opposed to it. Being a computer science major at the time, I thought it was ironic that my advisor (in the science department) and my computer science professors all thought it was a good idea.
The options you wanted were most likely more resource intensive (tutors and materials) and meant they would have made less income from you. Having designed courses at tertiary level, it is the bean counters who have the final say. Not the academics.
The purpose of the Education System should be to teach kids how to teach themselves
Its totally not though, it actually distracts kids from that and takes their time away from self-learning
@@KPenceable I’m not sure what you are trying to say (or maybe you didn’t understand me) but I was saying the GOAL (PORPOISE) of the education system is to teach people how to learn for themselves (teach themselves) without needing help from others. Starting with the basics such as reading, writing and math. Once the kids learn the basics and learn HOW TO LEARN the can take responsibility for learning what they themselves think they need to know. Without the ability to READ and to LEARN they can’t figure out what they need to know much less how to learn it for themselves.
@@VAMobMember Exactly The education system should be a place where we learn to critically thinking. If you can do this you are set for life, you can do anything, but most of us are not. But the system is just full politics. They even define education in a political way.
@@VAMobMember if I mean I’d avoid putting things in all caps as it comes off as rude and if people think you’re rude they’ll think either you’re not worth listening to or wrong. Neither is good for your argument
@@marcar9marcar972 All caps has its purpose
1) YELLING/SHOUTING
2) Emphasis of a point.
My intent was #2 thus it was a proper use of caps. If “you” have a problem with either purpose then the problem is in fact you and your lack of knowledge of text. Now I will, agree SOME people sometimes or even frequently use caps improperly but unless “you” are an arse you will assume proper use of caps if there is any grounds for doubt.
NOTE: air quotes around the word YOU are to indicate I am talking about anyone and everyone reading and NOT you specifically.
LOL. "...Shakespeare, this is the stuff I like but i still recognize there's something twisted in ramming it down a kids throat."
I've said this for 30+ years. School does not prepare you for a job or life. Also, hs or college football, cheerleading, or any of the extracurriculars that schools spend their money on do NOT help in a work situation. Often the injuries suffered set these people up for a lifetime of chronic pain and illnesses.
Encouraging people to stay in school until they are in their 20's is also a great way to create a narcissistic society, because in school people are primarily focused on themselves, unlike jobs where the focus is much more external.
That depends on how they are home schooled.
Two words... School... Choice...
Perhaps... but what is the real difference from one government controlled brain washing building and the next, except the mascot?
I much prefer ending subsidies, as the author states.
This is a case against school, not education. Every bit of what Caplan is saying makes perfect sense.
I didn't know education was suppose to be tied to getting a job.
Sounds like a good book.
It is a good book. I strongly recommend it.
Books don't emit sound....
It is only recently that we began to see education as job training. True education imparts knowledge concerning the design and function of the world that we may conform our lives. Education is ultimately the acquisition of wisdom.
You don't need a formalized education for that outside highly specialized field like maths, physics etc. Being civilized is everyone's responsibility.
Wisdom you get from lived experience that has been integrated, not from books.
I am 17 I have already been accepted to college I work a $20 an hour job on weekends and I have come to realize that school is just warehousing kids, and I'm fuckin pissed I still have 3 months of full-time school and I was pissed about it 2 years ago.
You could have dropped out and got your ged
why didn't you drop out.
@@cheesemccheese5780 Because he's not a blistering moron intent on working twice as hard as everyone else to get where he wants to be.
I hated my senior year of high school because, by then, my parents were treating me as an adult, but the school teachers and administrators where still treating me like a child.
The education system seemed to work fine until the government started protecting failing teachers. You get more of the behavior that you reward.
This 100%. They incentivise the issues instead of rewarding success. They think the every issue is solved with more money thrown at it.
Also when it became more about making everyone feel good about themselves (no one held back) instead of actually educating them.
It didn’t protect failing teachers. What it did was require endless testing for Pearson which cost millions of dollars for each district. Money went to Pearson instead of the classroom. Which lobbyist and Senator pocketed all that money. Republicans.
Schools should teach more critical thinking and have tracks that allow you to take trade focused or STEM focused courses.
Marasma101
Mhz ion hip
You can only teach critical thinking to a given extent, like logic/reason/scientific method. That is, not all people are able to organize their thoughts and energies to do any appropriate level of critical thinking. It's even unclear if everyone were perfect at critical thinking, we might lose religions and nations as we discover what's really going on versus the stories they told us to keep us organized.
The whole point of Common Core is to encourage critical and open thinking.
Toby Russell it doesn't. The current greatest Physicist like Mr. Badass Meme lord himself doesn't use Common Core in his career nor did he. Do math like thst nore do college math courses us common core
Even STEM isn't safe anymore
When I was in grade school someone told me it was wrong to have the attitude that says I don't like school but then go home and play a video game because someone had to go to school to learn electronics so they could invent that video game. That's not exactly true, what about Bill Gates didn't he drop out of college ?or the Wright Brothers what school did they learn about aeronautical engineering from? None it hadn't been invented yet.......... People need to question this so called education mentality.
I'm in complete agreement. I was warehoused along with my peers and I consider it child abuse. We were not taught how to make a living or function as adults. In elementary school I learned arithmetic and literacy. By the end of the fourth grade, I read at an adult level. I learned almost nothing else in school the next nine years. Yes, nine. It was such an obvious waste of time I gave up. I noticed I wasn't learning anymore in the fifth grade and asked the teacher when we would move on to new things. She told me I was selfish for wanting to learn and I should shut up and wait for the other children to catch up. So I shut up and got bored. I was an ideal student: I wanted to learn more than anything else, and I was obviously brilliant, scoring in the top percentile of every test. But I had terrible abusive and negligent parents who didn't give a fuck about me, and schools that also didn't give a fuck about me. So I started getting bad grades, even though I should have been accelerated or removed to an environment where I would have been engaged. I even was made to repeat my high school sophomore year. And then in senior year, I was expelled for failing too many classes and showing up late to school too often. I ended up getting a GED. I had perfect or near-perfect scores in most of the categories. I could have been taught to pass that test when I was 12. I should have. If I knew then what I know now, I would have demanded my parents send me to either elite boarding school or community college. And if they said no, I would have fled to a children's shelter and filed to become a legally emancipated minor and gone to work my way through community college as soon as possible. Unfortunately, I was too smart for my own good. I deferred to the adults, thinking they must know what's best for me better than I did. But I was the exception, the adults around me knew less than I did or completely didn't care. This whole education debacle destroyed my youth and wasted my potential. It may have ruined my life, which has become tragic. I wish I had been taught with "one is better than zero" in mind so that I could have been independent early on and thereby been enabled to get myself a real education. What I was provided in the name of education was worse than worthless. It was enslavement that prevented me from acquiring an education. Some of my classmates were moronic drug addicts and maybe they benefited from the schoolwork since they never would do anything productive on their own time. But I was reading the great books and studying independently every chance I got and resented that I was forced to spend most of my time doing stupid busywork. I was late to school because I was reading the encyclopedia or doing research every night. I would be much better off if I had just been handed a library card and giving free time to learn whatever at ten years of age, completely unguided. Of course, I'd have been even better off with a good education, but that's incredibly rare. The best private schools are decent. Excellent homeschooling by family or private tutors is the best option. Some colleges are good, but many are little better than public high schools, except that they are not mandatory.
Seems they didn't teach you paragraphing though... Put your text in paragraphs lol, nobody wants to read a text wall.
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you've decided what you'll do next; there are a lot of opportunities to help coming up.
I can’t say wether or not what you’re saying is true but this is the internet and people lie here. Also as an outsider looking in you might be book smart but other areas you appear to be lacking. Maybe you didn’t get the best start but don’t let that ruin your life. Learn, put together one hell of a portfolio and make up for lost time. Don’t confine yourself to the “my life is ruined” box because it’ll stay ruined forever until you fix it. Maybe you have been hacked over my those around you but the best way to get back is to show how wrong they were.
It's unfortunate that learning in the US is only considered towards having a job. Why does it have to only be useful to make money? Wouldn't it be good to be educated in general to be able to think independently, skeptically, critically? And, because this is not considered important, aren't we seeing the result of that now socially and politically?
WHY because to obtain necessities of life.... food,clothing,shelter each individual must render a service of equal value. Luxuries as better food, better house ,better “toys ie personal transportation ,phones,computers require greater service value be rendered . Simply if my labor delivers more value to my employer or client I expect to receive value or I will not continue providing the service . This principle is supported psychologically, biblical, and economically. Work not eat not
because its hard to quantify what learning is aside from economic value.
why should society spend 500k to “socialize” people. how do we measure if that was worth it to society? we can however measure if 500k worth of education resulted in a better job than 400k worth of education.
you are not wrong to think that spending money to socialize people is wrong. it just very hard to quantify.
I don't think that's the point. It would be great to actually learn things, but currently the education system isn't even very good at that.
Employers use a type of confirmation bias for hiring; when the hiring manager has a degree they are more likely to look for someone with a degree, to confirm their own credentialing.
Same with graduates from the same school, or from the same town, etc. Bias is everywhere, and most is good.
For every job I've had out of university, a college degree has always been a nice "marketing piece" but it was never a "requirement" for the job. There were lots of people in the same roles as me who only had a high school education.
In my experience, the Computer Science degree(s) BS and MS have paid off ... but I left university and started working 30 years ago at IBM. Since then, I have worked for a number of employers along with a start-up company. The degrees (and Masters in particular) were a big deal. Most of my classes were in computer science and math. Fast forward ... a degree in CS is no longer necessary ... in fact, it can be costly in terms of time and money. I work with a number of software engineers that are self-taught or have minimal university credits. In terms of the interview -- simply demonstrate that you know how to program in the required languages in context of the needs of the employer + show that you really want to work in the particular position for which you are interviewing + make it clear that you can be an effective member of a development team in terms of working your code through to production.
"The professors are the enemy, the professors are the enemy, the professors are the enemy....write that on the blackboard 100 times a day" --Richard Nixxon
America's best president. If trump can damage the american state and elite half as much as nixon he will be the most benevolent figure in the 20th century
Caplan's thesis is rational, constructive and economically efficient...all of which virtually guarantee its marginalization.
okay he is not jsut saying stop funding college, he is also saying don't spend anything on high school or elementary
"the boss doesn't want you being so creative that you say: hey, maybe this project isn't worth doing; maybe i should be the boss" now that's just no fun!
I was fortunate enough to be able to get a free 2 year Industrial Technology degree after my job went overseas. It's changed my life. I'm a Machinist now, working for a DoD subcontractor, making by far the best money of my life. I would be in favor of government-subsidized trade schools or community colleges that have a focus on actually training students to get good jobs after graduation. My wife has a 4-year Sociology degree. She's now a daycare aid, making half what I do.
I don't care what he says "The Mitochondria is powerhouse of the cell" comes everyday in my life
It is very important to know that, if you are a biologist or will become one. He makes it clear in his book.
Don't forget the Kreb's Cycle....Lord knows I've seen that one a few times.
Salmon is a fish.
I taught home schooling classes for 11 years for my Church and community home schooling groups. Public Education today is a complete bust. Yes, there may be the unusual exception but on average public schools abuse kids rather than teach them useful knowledge. I cannot tell you how many students came into my homeschooling classes right out of public schools who were completely lost. They had no idea how to write a sentence, or even what a sentence was! No idea of grammar, could not even define what grammar was! Punctuation? Forget about it! And, such things as logic, reading comprehension, basic science understanding.....No clue. I am not just a teacher. I have successfully re-roofed my own house, without prior training. How? Was able to comprehend instructions and understood basic science like, water runs down hill and will penetrate even the tiniest of openings. I successfully rebuilt my own engine. How? I was able to read and comprehend the instructions!!!!! Technical stuff like this is not hard if you have the basic training to read and understand the science behind instructions. Modern public schooling teaches none of this! In fact, I have come to believe that modern public schooling is child abuse!!!!
"I have come to believe that modern public schooling is child abuse!" That's not hyperbole: It's very much true.
People my age (mid-40's) appear to have been the last generation who were taught the skills of reason, discernment, and honest critique during our college years.
I'm not exactly sure what our children have been learning, but I do know that none of it is good.
The most sensitive people to criticism I've seen are boomers.
3rdpapaya stalinist fascism is what they have been learning. see academic camille paglia and jordan peterson. a few good lecturers in a sea of clones. come out.more stupid than when they went in
In my late forties here and I remember these issues beginning when I was in high school. I remember the indoctrination attempts and I always pointed them out. I wasn't very popular with most of my teachers. This began with the creation of the Department of Education by Jimmy Carter where the federal government basically took over our schools.
No, no you weren't. Middle-aged people, elderly people, young people, all are pretty terrible at reasoning and logical thinking.
Cutting ninja stars in sheet metal actually did help and apply in my job!
Pillowsocket: "Give me a job or i'll throw all these ninja stars at you."
@@Lord_Volkner ROFL
An important problem is that in a democracy, the population has to have at least a basic understanding of history, psychology, science, ect.
The small impact of on-line computerized learning is great evidence that the purpose of tertiary education is signalling, rather than learning. When combined with continued willingness of students to participate in degree granting programs that are all-or-nothing credentials, instead of smaller incremental learning of skills, it seems like this point is a slam-dunk!
This is 100% accurate. The primary function of school is to babysit kids while their parents are at work, and the primary benefit to children is social skills. I had two classes in school that actually taught me anything. I had an essay class that taught me writing structure for good presentation skills, and a had an amazing drafting teacher who gave me my career.
Thanks, but we figured that out 20 years ago and homeschooled our 5 children while having them help us run our small business.
I don't think this is an argument against education, it's an argument against the way we educate people.
This makes so too much sense and will be dismissed.
Jack the basenji, your post reminds of the one bit on Monty Python where the British Colonel suddenly appears onscreen and states, "I must stop this sketch, as it is getting far too silly!"
I wonder if my school library will use tax money to buy this book.
Not a hope in hell! Public libraries and schools don't want that.
And why does private school not differ much from public school? Simple: Private schools still have to get the government's stamp of approval. Private school teachers still have to get the government's license. Private schools still have to follow the same "educational" model as the government schools, which is to produce "good citizens" - docile, submissive, easily manipulated by mass media, and reflexively obedient to instructions issued by authority figures.
Spot on! I quit High School over 50 years ago. A friend (college prof.) asked why and I told him it was a waste of time. That said I am a champion of practical education and I attended many classes and read countless books to enhance my earning capacity. Aside from managing some investment properties I "retired" comfortably ((Country Club in Florida) several years ago and I am better off than 95% of my classmates including those with their high-priced degree. IMHO: Public education is most often a well-intended dismal failure. Our youth graduate HS filled with useless information and very short on needed life skills. Note: Two (2) nieces quit their teaching jobs aghast by the system and mortified at the mayhem in the classroom. Several grandchildren were homeschooled and the better for it.
Great interview.
Susan, I am actually going to get his book --- there are several mentioned topics which intrigues me --- but, aside from those, I found much of the respondee's portion of the interview to be rather disturbing ... particularly in his apparent nonchalance and inadequacies regarding critical notions: [1] parental involvement and, even more so, the critical need when a parent is NOT involved; [2] his almost total dismissal of CIVICS [OMG!]; [3] teaching life's basic financial skills [particularly for those who marry]; and, etc.
HS students, in general, know NOTHING --- or, next to nothing --- about cost-benefit analysis associated with: university expenses, career choice impacts, "having a family" expenses, insurance/mortgage/car/credit card/etc management, basic investment strategies, particularly, the time-value of money, and etc ... where this guy omits completely ALL of these major items from this interview.
Yes, I understand and appreciate the overall nature of this short interview, where all could not be covered, and that, perhaps, maybe he did give at least a nod to a few of these items; however, I am quite sure, that he certainly did NOT invest even a full sentence to ANY one of these critical items.
This is sinful --- especially in a video about the Case AGAINST Education --- where anyone of these would be GREAT educational items ... which would save individuals/families, communities and our nation, over time, absolutely tons of money; but, this guy just seems to blow it off completely.
BTW: I found his incessant head/shoulder rocking body language --- and his bewildering assortment of facial expressions --- to be a few steps away from being unwatchable. Was there some underlying "signal" which, through these signs, he trying to communicate, or, was that just a nervous tick? Wow! What was that all about?
No. I found NOTHING "great" about this interview; rather, with few exceptions, somewhat perfunctory and overwhelmingly dismissive. Now, as I write out more of this response to your comment, I am rethinking whether I will, indeed, pick up that book; maybe ONLY if I can get it at a deep discount.
When he said 'yes they do learn how to sit down and shutup in college'..
My thought; Have you seen what's happening on college campuses?
Kids think they run it
Back in 1972 I saw Ivan Illich lecture on his book 'De-Schooling Society'
[It is available online] "Many students, especially those who are poor, intuitively know what the schools do for them. They school them to confuse process and substance. Once these become blurred, a new logic is assumed: the more treatment there is, the better are the results; or, escalation leads to success. The pupil is thereby "schooled" to confuse teaching with learning, grade advancement with education, a diploma with competence, and fluency with the ability to say something new. His imagination is "schooled" to accept service in place of value.
Education also creates artificial barriers that, in my mind, needs to be anolished.
Great points, especially in regards to conformity. I have an issue with that which I think keeps me from advancing faster than I do. I just don't fully take everything at face value.
David Knight perhaps you're the type who likes to argue just for the sake of arguing , which employers tend to look down on
I love this guy!
I started my internship at NXP(the world's largest Automotive Semiconductor integrated chip plant) this summer, and I had no idea about what was going on. Absolutely nothing I learned in school prepared me to be an Embedded Controls Systems Engineer. It brought me to tears to know that I had wasted 10 years my life in college learning how not to be productive in the work place. We need to begin focusing peoples degrees on helping them do the work placed in front of them. The educational system is broken!!
Have to pay for all those useless union workers
Te title is misleading. Professor Kaplan says all spending on education is worthless because education is broken. The correct title is The Case Against Education: Spending $1 Trillion a Year on Schooling Is a Waste of Money.
Yeah, I think you put it best
This guy would make a GREAT Secretary of Education... Just sayin...
Wow. Incredible interview, very enlightening. This gave a lot to think about.
public and private schools can have huge differences. Private schools have to be held accountable for a good curriculum or the lose potential customers and go under. That's why many people value private over public, but there are exceptions to public schools sucking in general.
Nick rocks.
Great guest.
Great interview.
Some people have gone to schools where they were not trained to work but taught to 'think' critically. A pity this educational concept seems to have become unfashionable.
What school did this? What were the courses? How do you know if you are good or bad at critical thinking? Very few of us have the time to be critical of all information and we just accept much at face value (which also works well for most in practice). Why did you put 'think' in quotation marks, as if you are not really thinking?
Answers :
The school of critical thinking.
Critical thinking.
At a critical moment.
With time you can enjoy being critical about everything . . .
It seemed critical to ensure 'thinking' was emphasised.
Should people not be taught to think for themselves?
Michael LeBlanc Critical thinking is an ambiguous expression. If anything, I think logical thought is worth learning, since it actually refers to something in particular. Logic, after all, is the science of truth preservation from premises to conclusions. Learning how to do it will make you better at effectively anything. This is not an argument for getting a degree (degrees don't require courses in logic), but it is an argument for serious study of logic. I assure you, it does make a difference. It is a practical, real world skill. It should not be pitted against real world skills like some kind of opposite.
Suggesting that it is opposed to real world skills implies that any action that requires it isn't useful in the real world. Look around you, and you'll find very little that isn't the result of scientific (careful, logical empirical thought) discovery as applied through technology. The food on your plate included.
YamiShadow Kitty - Completely agree with you. Logic is the essence of critical thinking.
I enjoyed school. I did well and went to a famous university, which i did not enjoy.
But a few years without a degree doing lousy jobs convinced me to finish my BA
and the rest was plain sailing. School is not for everyone. My own kids hated it,
and are swimming upstream in the Uk job market. I do think trade schools , apprenticeships,
and on-the-job training should be more extensive and done early in the teenage years.
"If you want to become educated, go to a library. If you want to become indoctrinated, go to a school."
- Frank Zappa
Says the Harvard grad and PhD
Among the highest expenditure per student, IIRC we spend more on minorities, and we are middle or bottom of the pack in first world countries as far as test scores. There save you all 20 minutes. Homeschool your kids if possible, if not private or charter.
Yeah, but you don't have Caplan's style.
Most people aren't capable of being good homeschool teachers and push their iases om them. The last thing we need is a bunch of kids who don't believe in evolution and demand everyone else to follow their God. Dumbass boomers don't even realize thay the economy and job culture is completely different.
When you pass at 60 and wonder why you spent 10 years of them 60 years you had on the planet at school you'll wonder why you did...I hardly went to school...was banned from there after the exams and I earn £30k a year doing a great job....no education needed. My parents gave me the skills to read and write...yes my spelling is never on par but it is what it is.
Just remember....the betting man
If you work 5 out of 7....you just lost. Them odds should never be played.
Try working 3 out of 7....you'll be so much happier.
Great interview, Nick!
I came into that thinking I'd be against it completely, but it actually seems pretty reasonable.
Gosh! You mean grade school should be about reading, writing and arithmetic... not leftist indoctrination?!
"Employers want someone to follow orders , do as you r told "- Caplan.
Great phrase......forever related to him.
Cut 100% of government funding for schools. Let the free market fix the distortions that this professor is describing, problems solved!
as an educator when i hear someone say they are going to college i cringe.
It's all about being motivated at some point in early adulthood.
Finding a career path in life is not dependant on your education level, granted you grasped all elementary level skills.
He makes a really really solid argument!
This author is 100% right. Excellent viewpoint - this needs to be discussed.
I may be biased, but school would have served me better had there been less people there. I dropped out instead & self studied. I was an easy, no study, A+ student.
A college degree is only valuable because many jobs require that you possess one just to be able to apply.
The libertarians have a cookie for you as an incentive to be a good boy for your boss.
@@kimobrien. What?
@@whitehavencpu6813 For the capitalist he believes only in motivation by incentive or the stick. He can't conceive of human beings as having moral motivations of collective survival.
@@kimobrien. The goal of capitalism is to take advantage and use people's greed and selfishness to do good and be of value to other people, lol.
The only way for you to get rich in a free market is to provide a service or product that other people. value. If you want more profits, then you have to work harder.
@@whitehavencpu6813 Industrial capitalism gave way to finance capitalism and Imperialism. Finance capitalism is nothing more than gambling with the lives of million who work for the underlying industrial companies bought and sold on the stock market. This inevitably leads to economic crisis. Profitability of capitalist industry declines as new machinery which is necessary to drive profitability replace labor. As capital value increases the labor exploited declines without more markets than labor the origin of value and profits declines resulting in declining profitability. For capitalism to work best it must continually reinvest in exploiting more labor otherwise the workers can't buy back all that we produce driving unemployment and wages down to the level of just what is needed to come back to work next week. If the world were infinite than capitalism could continually develop however since it is finite capitalism eventually runs into a wall of economic decline. Capitalist don't work harder instead they become more parasitic. Finance capitalism is little more than den of gambling thieves.
About time someone just said "say no to education"!!!!
When I was in college, they opened a new state-of-the-art "student wellness" building. Even after receiving many millions of dollars from the government, they had to raise student fees to build it. And I never set foot inside except to walk through it on the way to another building. Near as I can tell, it's mostly just used as a hang out spot between classes. Things like this happen constantly in colleges, and K-12 schools aren't much better. If the education system would just stick to educating people, that would be a huge step in the right direction.
Companies should hire directly from schools (before college) and they should be the ones driving targeted research work. That would be much more productive.
Privatize government education system and get government out of student loans.
Scooters Videos - If government was helping people get pizza you wouldn't be able to afford a slice much less a whole pie.
Scooters Videos - learn economics.
Nice try simpleton. Government got involved in home loans, prices sky rocketed. Government has been involved in health care with Medicaid and Medicare and health care costs have sky rocketed. Government is backing student loans and the cost of education is sky rocketing. Government got involved in paying to crush used cars with "cash for clunkers" and used car prices increased. Is is it really that hard for you to see a possible pattern here?
So you just want cheap schools, not good ones. Cheap food drives obesity and climate change, but it must be "better" because it's cheaper.
You mean cost your parents. I presume you didn't buy your own lunch, and of course a subsidized lunch isn't cheaper, it's just paid for by others.
I've been saying this for years. Secretaries don't need college degrees. McDonald's don't need college degrees. Then why require them?
3O years ago a German engineer told me how in junior high aged 14 he chose a science path.
At the end of high school he had the equalivealnt of 1st year engineering. He the severed 2 yrs compulsive service in the air force and trained as a technician that counted toward his engineering degree. After the air force he attended university for 2 yrs to receive his diploma. How sensible, served his country and didn't waste time and money.
Absolutely correct. And, with a little effort, every kid coming out of high school should have the equivalent of an associate's degree, or better. But that will buck the education industry, an industry parents are all too willing to let run the show. Shameful.
As a man who was once a child beaten down by the modern education system this interview was music to my ears. I'm buying this book tomorrow.
I knew I resented my parents for a reason.
It like the wizard of oz, they give you a diploma and now you are smart, so smart that your going to pay your student loans for the next decade.
Fascinating.