Random Wire Antenna Mix-61 Toroids Tested

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  • Опубліковано 31 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 65

  • @TheSmokinApe
    @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

    Check out my Chokes, Baluns and Ununs Playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLm8ROkpFeqoqkGQtBYfcT9Y-2GCKxBuuk.html

  • @dennisbauer3315
    @dennisbauer3315 Рік тому +1

    Thanks SmokingApe, I enjoyed your appearance on Ham Radio DX, it was a good laugh, regardless of what they say, some amateur radio people do have a sense of humour. 🤣 It's easy enough for anyone to make both, if were fussy.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +1

      Haha, we had a good time hanging out in Dayton 👍

  • @KK6USYHamRadioAdventures
    @KK6USYHamRadioAdventures Рік тому +1

    Another great comparison from professor APE!

  • @MM0OPXFieldRadio
    @MM0OPXFieldRadio Рік тому +1

    Top notch again Mr Ape. Your comparisons between the 2 types of material broadly compare to Evil Lairs work using 61 material for the EFHW. Its quite addictive this testing and more and more people are doing it which will only advance out understanding.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +3

      Hey Colin! I do enjoy the testing, I have a few more cores I want to test in the 9:1 config and then I may do some 49:1 tests. 👍

  • @ronwolenski-n8wcr
    @ronwolenski-n8wcr Рік тому +2

    Good analysis of the two cores. I guess it's all up to what are using it for, higher frequencies or lower to which core to use. There doesn't seem to be a one core fits all. Very good video. Answers my questions.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      Thanks Ron, I agree there doesn’t seem to be a one size fits all 👍

  • @JT-py9lv
    @JT-py9lv Рік тому +1

    *Thank you for keeping us educated* Great review.

  • @AD6DMDennis
    @AD6DMDennis Рік тому

    Cool comprehensive overview of both cores.

  • @MikeN2MAK
    @MikeN2MAK Рік тому

    Very cool to see the tests and differences.

  • @technishn
    @technishn Рік тому

    Great data. Many decades ago, (pre internet) saw an article looking at TX intermodulation degradation through ferrite cores. Might be something to try.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      Interesting idea, thanks for the comment Tech 👍

  • @WECB640
    @WECB640 Рік тому +1

    Great analysis Ape! I concur with your findings. I'm certain that 99% of the operators that watch this will be using under 100w of power, so the difference in mix types is minimal. HOWEVER, when using QRO the higher frequency 61 mix has a better thermal rating and this is generally true of the mixes with lower permeability.
    73 OM 👍

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      I was just talking about this to someone privately. I wouldn't suggest the 43 on the low bands for just this reason, especially a 140.

    • @dennisbauer3315
      @dennisbauer3315 Рік тому

      better thermal rating, you're saying less heat?

    • @subramanianr7206
      @subramanianr7206 Рік тому

      ​@Dennis Bauer yes, higher the current temperature better it is.
      De VU2RZA

  • @Thump2030
    @Thump2030 Рік тому

    great video

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      Thanks Thump, getting a little tired of winding all these thangs!

  • @bob_mosavo
    @bob_mosavo Рік тому

    Thanks 😁

  • @Ezzell_
    @Ezzell_ Рік тому

    Hey..thank you for what you do for us. Can you find a mouse pointer with a magnifier that you can hover over the small text of the program you use so we can read it?

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +2

      Yeah, I’ll see what I can do. Thanks for the feedback 👍

  • @StuartM0TTQAmateurRadio
    @StuartM0TTQAmateurRadio Рік тому

    The slightly lossier coil showing a slightly better SWR figures, some of the power that ought to be refelcted is being absorbed in the toroid. Not a lot, but not "none" either. Great video again.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      Fair point and thanks for watching Stuart 👍

  • @birdhouserocket
    @birdhouserocket Рік тому +2

    Would be interesting to see the results if a 43 and a 61 were stacked together. Could it be the best of both worlds? Interesting. Thanks for the info. 73.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +1

      Might be need to try, but it could increase the loss.

    • @subramanianr7206
      @subramanianr7206 Рік тому

      That is a mistake.
      #43 has a ui of 850 and #61 has a ui of 125.
      It means the magnetic flux field lines from one core to the other would be obstructed by almost 1:7 ratio. Out of
      850 lines from the core #43 only 125 lines would be passing the other side of the #61.
      That doesn't make any sense.
      De VU2RZA

  • @dan_in_sd
    @dan_in_sd Рік тому

    Great vid Ape. 👍

  • @peterk.824
    @peterk.824 11 місяців тому

    Interesting results. From the datasheets I would have expected significantly less losses in the 61er material compared to the 43. Also I wonder: Usually XL of your primary winding should be at least 4 times higher than the impedance you want to transfer (ARRL Handbook for Radio Communications 2020 17.32 and a lot of other literature). So about 200 Ohms. For a 43 you only need like 3 windings , but with the FT140-61 you need 6 , to get to 221 Ohms. Because 43 AL=885nH/N2 and 61 is AL=140. Secondary windings obviously both for both cores 3 times the primary winding. Did you change the windings or did use the same for both cores? From your results it looks like it had little disadvantages. But which really puzzles me.. there should be a huge difference in losses... anyway thanks for your work.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  11 місяців тому +1

      I used the same windings for both cores, thanks for adding the info from ARRL 👍

  • @philcretired5143
    @philcretired5143 3 місяці тому

    So perhaps extended frequency range using stacked 43 and 61 ferrites??

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  3 місяці тому

      Possible, I don’t think there is a one size fits all solution though

  • @AndyAAzeroAM
    @AndyAAzeroAM Рік тому

    Well, done. Data is awesome! Would 240 cores matter much to the results of either mixes? Or is a mix a mix no matter the size?

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +2

      I suspect the results would be similar. The size is generally more applicable to power handling and heat.

    • @subramanianr7206
      @subramanianr7206 Рік тому

      ​@@TheSmokinApe you are right
      De VU2RZA

  • @JayN4GO
    @JayN4GO Рік тому

    Willing to throw a lot of rf through both to see how long until the swr rises? Not many videos on that.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +2

      I haven’t found a good way to do this test in a controlled way. But when I do, lookout! Thanks for watching Jay 👍

  • @DonzLockz
    @DonzLockz Рік тому

    Very interesting, I would not have thought to try 61 roids. I dont think id ever get on 160m, mainly looking at 40-10m.👍

  • @W9HJBill
    @W9HJBill Рік тому

    Maybe you already did this and I just missed it, but could you do the same thing for various EFHW cores? I remember you doing a video comparing them, but don't remember seeing the efficiency table comparison presented as clearly as this video.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      Hey Bill, I have a few videos on different cores as chokes and transformers. I will do more like this that include 49:1. Thanks for watching 👍

  • @d3w4yn3
    @d3w4yn3 Рік тому

    How many watts do you think is safe to run through the 61s? From 10 to 40M I'm really liking these efficiencies!

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      With these smaller 140 cores, you should be fine on 100w ssb. Likely 50-75w for digital modes 👍

  • @temporarilyoffline
    @temporarilyoffline Рік тому +2

    My Roid, My Choice. Got it.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      Right, it’s your roid… be proud of it 👍

  • @robertmeyer4744
    @robertmeyer4744 Рік тому

    That does follow along with data sheet on type of core. keep in mind that on higher frequency's the stray inductance of your resistors will change the load a tad. just putting resistor right on VNA shows this. this is still a good comparison of the 2 cours. the stray inductance is the same on both cours. now in a different purpose like RF power amp using MRF 454 transistors . over 25 Mhz using a type 43 cour still works but makes a 2 and 3rd harmonics and the 43 cour heat up more. using 61 is better . even splitters and combiners on RF power amps . Ameritron HF RF power amp uses type 61 in output stages. old version uses 4X 2SC 2879. getting appx 500 watt PEP . that would be a outher test for the cores . put some RF power into them. use the nano VNA to check harmonics . this would take a non inductive resistor and a shielded enclosure with a output line tap . a lot of work . what you showed is a good basic test. also a power test would show heatting of core. 100 watt and down not much heating. FT8 may get warm but 1500 watt watch the core. I have seen them shatter at high power. enamel wire can RF arc. PTFE on high power. I have silver plated PTFE for high power RF. 73's

  • @bassangler73
    @bassangler73 Рік тому

    👍

  • @rnrbishop
    @rnrbishop Рік тому

    61 also can be run reaaaaaly hot

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +1

      Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Thanks for watching F11 👍

    • @rnrbishop
      @rnrbishop Рік тому +2

      @@TheSmokinApe I had a 2xFT140 4:1 on my doublet, which would overheat and start to act up after a while on 300 watts, swapped in two FT140-61 and it never once complained. Got rather hot, but the SWR didnt shift a bit.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +2

      I have a few of the larger 240 mix 61 coes I am planning of testing out as well.

    • @subramanianr7206
      @subramanianr7206 Рік тому

      The curie temperature is higher with the #61 core.
      But it doesn't mean that it can be run really hot all the time.
      Undue heat in the core is wasted energy and you don't want it.
      During mistuning or by accident temperature increase may be allowed for a short time.
      If you are going to use higher power other than that is rated for a specific size you should select a next bigger size.
      Ferrite cores ui might return to the original value after few such abuses like running hot or near to the point of saturation. But repeated and prolonged abuse must be avoided by all means.
      Hope this helps.
      De VU2RZA

    • @rnrbishop
      @rnrbishop Рік тому

      @@subramanianr7206 of course, but it can be useful in an emergency. The extra overhead is why Chameleon and the like use 61 a lot.

  • @VE9ASN
    @VE9ASN Рік тому +1

    Fifty two.....52?

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому +1

      I couldn’t find any 52’s in the t140 size, gonna have to wait for the 240 video.

    • @VE9ASN
      @VE9ASN Рік тому

      @@TheSmokinApe I'll be watching, thanks for the effort in your videos, 73.

    • @TheSmokinApe
      @TheSmokinApe  Рік тому

      Thanks Lee 👍