Dark Millennium Online: The 40K MMO That Never Was - Codex Compliant
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2023
- A video about a game that wasn't.
Featuring the voices of:
Naerina:
www.naerina.com/
/ acolytenaerina
PleasantKenobi:
@PleasantKenobi
@pkswarroom
/ pleasantkenobi
I also want to point out that it took until the very end of production before Wib was able to consistently remember that there are 2 'N's in 'Millennium'. So I expect it is misspelled several times in the video.
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🔵 Twitch: / snipeandwib - Ігри
I still go back and watch the trailer from time to time. I don’t think I’ve ever wanted a game to get made so much in my life
I'm so glad i wasn't aware at all about Warhammer at that time because i would be on the same wagon as you my friend
I feel you bro' . Was counting the days when more information would be available or a start date. And then... boom... project canceled.
So much potential, so faithful to the setting. A shame it failed due to THQ imploding. Eternal Crusade just wasn't the same.
I try not to think of games like this or Starcraft Ghost haha
I actually like the retro WOW art style which would be easier to run on modern computers. If they kept the graphics simple it might work as a throwback of something that never was.
It's actually charming as opposed to the soul-sucking crap we get nowadays.
I was at E3 2010 and one of the biggest disappointments was the 40k MMO (I think they were still calling it "Eternal Crusdae" at that point...). They had a "booth" that was basically one screen running the trailer on loop, Joe Maduiera (the artist who was primarily responsible for Darksiders and who was doing a lot of concept art for this title) looking like he would rather be anywhere else, and an ork and a space marine stomping around half-heartedly. I think I still have pics somewhere. Vanquish had a better booth. Red Faction Armageddon had a better booth. I took one look at what they had on offer and muttered to my friend "This is never coming out."
Eternal Crusade was a different project, basically 40k Planetside. It *did* com out and lasted for a good while before closing down recently.
@@BeesechurgerProductions Its been a while. You're right I have the names flipped. I know it was E3 2010, and the trailer they had on loop was the same one in the video. Completely off-topic side note: That was the E3 where I met Verne Troyer (he was literally the size of a football... it was nuts) at the OnLive booth, and Reggie Fils-Aime gave me the stink eye because when I spotted him I said "OMG that's Reggie!" just a bit too loud right before the 3DS reveal...
@@BeesechurgerProductions 'lasted' is a little generous, it lingered on zombie-like with a skeleton playerbase for a substantial portion of its life
@@ReachForTheSky 60% of the buyers refunded and left when it turned out the game wasn't what was promised early on when basically bE's board sabotaged the game half way through production and fired half the original dev team fearing the game would bankrupt the company, scared of taking a risk because their marketing guys spooked the CEO. bE's problem at the time was they were a AA developer with a AAA mindset, the sweeping changes saved the company and lead to their success with Dead by Daylight, but Eternal Crusade was a victim of this decision and reorganisation; 2 years of work lost and what remained of the game was redesigned into a sh!t version of Planetside (another game which has somehow managed to survive years after it's popularity stopped roughly 8 years ago).
Everyone involved is still working in the AA industry, which exists in this bizarre twilight zone between indie and AAA and somehow manages to keep these companies afloat despite zero advertising (and interest) of their games anywhere. The AA video game industry reminds me of mattress stores, they somehow are always open despite never having any customers. (BTW the secret to how the AA industry makes their money, they actually outsource their devs for AAA projects, they in fact make most of their revenue doing this because the games they make themselves are mostly generic garbage).
I find it ironic because THQ started as a AA publisher for AA developers and made their name selling cheap knock off clones of popular AAA games for $20 less than AAA games, then Dawn of War and WWE made them a big name and they started behaving like a AAA publisher and spending like a AAA publisher while still having the budget of a AA publisher and treated their developers like a commodity, which was their downfall.
Dark Millennium was something I was so looking forward to back in the day. 😩
Such an interesting and bizarre nugget of history, thank you both so much for talking about it and bring to my screen the genuinely phenomenal art of those artists who worked on the project.
I had friends who were quite deeply into WoW back in the day. I wasn't into it but when I heard about Dark Millennium Online I wondered if it would be what got me hooked on MMORPGs. Thank you for letting me know what happened to it after all these years!
You should talk about the poor sadly failed 40K CCG by Sabertooth games. I loved that game, had a really clever rules set.
Hope your feeling a but better today Snipe. You'll get through this.
"You know, basically what they do with live services now, because the games industry never has to learn a lesson just once."
As a wise man once put it: "Let's all laugh at an industry that never learns anything tee hee hee"
Weird that the first line was spoken by an Australian living in Britian, while the second was spoken by a British person living in Australia.
@@theautisticguitarist7560I thought Yahtzee moved to from Australia to America years ago? Its why the lets play series with his best friend/best cohost of the channel had to end
I can't remember where I saw it but I remember reading somewhere that how this game was going to do the imperial guard was quite interesting.
When playing a guard you instead controlled and entire squad instead of just one character. I actually think that's a very unique idea that I would love to see another MMO take a look at.
The only other MMO I can think of is _Allods Online_ with its trio of gibberlings.
And that's basically the only thing I remember about that game.
I have no idea why more games haven't adopted squad play Brother in Arms: Road to Hill 30. Basically, you control a squad in 1st. person using either hotkeys or bringing up a map you can click on. The commands can be as general as "wait over there" or as precise as "line up on that wall and fire at that building, even if you don't see anything."
When you die, you immediately "respawn" by taking control of another person in the squad. Games end when one squad wipes out the other. If you have more than two players, each new player takes over someone else in a squad or has a squad of their own (I think you could have 4 players max? This was back in like 2005).
This means no waiting between deaths, useful bots, and a large number of in-game troops despite maybe having only 2 or 3 people to control them. Star Wars: Republic Commando is the only thing I've seen with similar mechanics.
Enlisted
eternal crusade was pay to win garbage.
At best.
Foe people who supported it since the beginning, who believed in what they promised, it was an Istvaan III simulator.
There are no words in Gothic, Aeldari or Votann for the Betrayal they unleashed upon their supporters.
it was just trash that ran like crap.
I'm enjoying darktide
Only in the sense that people who had low ping because they had ultra-fast connections they paid for won most of the time. I had one of those founders packs and no, it didn’t help because I was regularly getting +150ms ping.
The game play itself was fun
The expensive weapons were only cosmetically different to the basic counterparts
Oh man I remember when these 3D models hit the internet. A LOT of the concept art was incredible too. Another great vid
Great video. Snipe’s delivery remains impeccable.
Another fine video from commentators who consistently find the perfect mix of emotional investment in their subject and irreverence about it.
We should also take a moment to salute Snipe for continuing to contribute to the release schedule during her ill health. I had less invasive cancer treatment than them a couple of years ago and it took months to fully recover from, so I'm really impressed by their ability to soldier on like this.
Shoutout to Snipe and her ongoing Battle against nurgle. We here from Scandinavia pray for your blessings of wellbeing.
2nd ed Speeder for Chaos? Now I am very sad.
And still baffled by how a chapter turning to Chaos apparently sees their speeders all break and Whirlwinds vanish. Oh, and the sidecars fall off the attack bikes and every assault cannon turns into an autocannon.
They still get Whirlwind Scorpiuses, if that makes you feel any better
God this stirred up some lost memories like a Necron tomb awakening. I remember seeing that trailer, going "huh...neat" and didn't think much of it. I do remember reading about the cancellation but it's nifty to hear the details in between.
WTF doesn't this channel have more subs??? The production values and hosts are excellent and the lore is correct. They even do other games and franchises. It's a winner!
Yo I really didn’t expect to have my enjoyment of Firewarrior validated in the first few minutes of this video.
People absolutely are way too hard on it!
I would also love underwater combat rules for 40k! I've considered making my own based on night fighting, but you know, I want the rules to feel fun, not just be a bunch of debuffs stacked onto a normal game
Late reply but my first thoughts are decrease the flat forward movement of units, but increase their vertical movement to represent walking/running in water and swimming respectively. I also would heavily restrict or even outright ban vehicles given most, if not all, in the setting are either anti-grav or combustion engine powered. A modifier making wounding easier to represent the risk of sealed armor breaching would be interesting as well.
As an artist, I still LOVE the artworks Dark Millennium Add!!!
Still very inspiring !!!
Oh by gods, old and new!
Goldshire Inn was... quite a place, especially around 1 am GMT. From female Night Elves, Dranei and Human dancing on tables inside things could escalate to them dancing on top of mail box outside the inn. Top room with a big bed was always occupied at that time and there was a serious risk of some people's cybersex spilling over from whispers to local chat...
I really wonder if in 40k inspired MMO things would go further that that...
Back when I was still doing a 40k podcast, I had an opportunity to chat with one of the writers that was working on the story for Dark Millennium Online and they ran me through the narrative that had been written for the game. Knowing now what their vision was for how the game would have played out and what the narrative experience for the player would have been, it's especially disappointing that the product never got completed.
I have fond memories of Fire Warrior, it was indeed OK.
I’m glad to have expanded my knowledge on this forgotten game that never was. Excellent work
13:08 I am no deeply upset that I will never get to level up that spikey boy.
I have never heard of that MMO game and its sad cause some those designs are quite interesting. I do wonder if it would taken the reins a bit from WOW
Great video! Never seen a couple(?) do video essay style content before, and it was super refreshing :)
Thank you for a great video! Sending you both love ❤
Good to see you guys back, hope you're both doing well.
I'd never heard of this game before, so thank you for talking about it! The trailer looked interesting, sad we never got anything like that. Though Vermintide I and II seem good.
Awesome video guys
Clicked on this video to learn about some 40k game I'd never heard ofz now I'm sad thinking about the alternate timeline where this came out while I was a teenager loving 40k and playing way too many video games.
Just picturing chapters instead of guilds limited to 1000 players and having home brews everywhere
The trailers make it look so good. Such a shame it won’t ever be made
Stay strong Snipe and much love to you too Wib
Another top notch video, thanks
That Techpriest looks so cool, that would have got my money had it come out.
Thank goodness at least the Mechanicus game got released, I’ve had so much fun playing it through repeatedly.
The presence of a pleasant kenobi implies the existence of an unpleasant kenobi. I never want to imagine that again, thank you! 😂
I was not expecting a Codex Compliant on this topic !
That was fun look into something I didn't know existed.
With the amount of action mmo's coming out now, I would really love to see someone pick up the reigns to give us a 40k mmo.
This is one of those games I think about every once in a while.
Much love to Snipe and Wib!
I am so glad that Snipe is still looking well. Wish the best to you.
I remember being hype by this game trailer ! And never heard about it again after indeed...
I still remember that banger outro about lobsters when you still did video games.
You guys rock!
Every time I even see a hint of Fire Warrior... "It's quiet"..... Every. Damn. Time.
A Warhammer 40k themed reskin of Planetside II would have been pretty cool
Just reading the video title hurt a bit. Was hyped for this way back.
I've never heard of this as it would have been during the few years I was out of the hobby. I'm not into MMOs but I absolutely love the concept art here. I really like the slightly cartoony/chunky look they were going for.
Different CC video, but no less interesting! Awesome work as always 👍
I remember being excited about this game! G8 vid
Its weird seeing a video like this where I actually remember this all when it was happening
Thanks for the Lamenter
This was the greatest hype of my life! In the midst of my MMO love on the back of Space Marine... then we got Eternal Crusade 'wait what banana peal' *whoops*
The ork concept art looks rad in this style
Wow, did not expect to see the return of Bloodrage The Placid when I woke up today
I miss you guys playing video games
I remember hearing about this when i was first getting into 40K was really excited. A shame we never got the chance.
I worked for GW around the time that this idea was being floated. There was a running joke (which may not have been a joke) that there had been a ton of cash put to one side for this, and it had... disappeared.
I mean, it was mentioned in a meeting and a sheepish glance and awkward chuckle was shared by the bosses.
"Firewarrior is okay."
"It's quiet."
This looks dope
I remember seeing this advert after playing Warhammer: Age of Reckoning. I was dead excited. Later I was dead disappointed.
holy molly your still alive? i remember you being on tv or something when i was a kid.... crazy
Really wanted to play the tech priest from the trailer then. (Was that an electro priest in the game?)
Fortunately, Mechanicus came and it was good. And yeah, I now want an electro priest in my Mechanicus 2 cohort.
Thanks for finally finishing the long development video on a game I wondered about. Good job.
Jesus, I haven't thought about this game in absolute ages.
Having played warhammer online so so much. ( yeah and the fan server as well at times) I was so stoked for this...and it never came :( . That said on a same note I can recall seeing in PC zone back in the day....yeah I said it.... a pic of a soon to be cming 40k FPS with what I seem to recall the hand of a chaos raptor ( big fuck off blades) and that never appeared either.
Just imagine, we have a universe where the Dark MIllennium is released!
The Stormcast Brettonion is the first model I have seen that makes me think about playing Age of Sigmar, I absolutely love it, I play Empire in WH Fantasy though so would go more foot Knights Panther, Blazing Sun, Reiksguard or White Wolf.
"You'll get no Codex and you'll be compliant!" yes mam!
LoL, as soon as you said "every faction in 40k would be represented" my first thought was that I wanted to fight the Hrud. XD
OH MY GOSH THEY'RE DOING IT
I can't believe Wib "Chainsaw" Johnson, live on UA-cam, in front of God and Jeebus said
Pah.
Just you wait, soon it'll be on a t-shirt.
My heart bled when I saw the title.
16:28 as someone who joined the hobby in 2017-2018, i felt this line (and really, this whole video!) really weirdly resonate with me, especially since i've since gone on to become a fantasy fan in the past two years and never really got to enjoy during it's ife before the end times came about.
not to mention i've found the atomsphere of 40k pre primaris/great rift more intriguing, but not in a way that hates anything new, but some of the newer stuff feels more, corporate trying to mimic the sucess of the mcu, than say, accepting it's own niche identity as a franchise about a decaying empire and many stock fantasy races duking it out in space for a million reasons, where everybody is a villain protagonist to a degree or exists on a black and white morality slider in the many shades of grey to outright black
I actually got to play a slice of this game when they where shopping the title while it was still a MMO to other publishers. I was able to play a space marine scout on a snow planet with a LOT of Elysian stuff placed around as decoration. It had some borderlands vibes to it despite being an MMO, like loot drop colors. While I enjoyed the hour or so I got to play as a big Warhammer fan, when my companies lawyer asked "but is it $50 million good?" I had to say no.
4:52 Damn that wizard!!!
I enjoyed seeing the two of you bathed in blue and green lighting :p It was like you were going for a tasteful bit of bisexual mood lighting, overdid it, and now we're all stuck inside a vaporwave album cover with Tzeentch and Nurgle soaking up the rays of an alien sun.
Which honestly, I could think of far worse fates... ;3
P.S. I'm sure we all remember where we were when Scooch were nominated for the Eurovision. Paradigm shifting stuff, that song.
Nooice!
This game would have made so much money. And it reminds me of another MMORPG that didn't make it, Jagex's Sci-Fi Runescape style project "Stellar Dawn". I was really wanting to play both. It also was in development and canned about the same time.
I remember when this and Star Trek online were announced close together and I literally couldn’t tsleep!
Great vid guys, is that bumpy from camp cretaceous in the background?
nice vid
I hope this is not taken in any negative context. Only from my only experience, the PS 2 version of Fire warrior gave me a lot of challenges. I have limited experience of Space Hulk, but no complaints. Soul storm is more my main game play (PC version off line.) Unification however is a challenge I would heartily recommend to online gamers. Thank you for your indulgence.
ah I remember this.
At least we've got Rogue Trader to look forward to
OUCH... there it is,, my heartache "Dark Millenium" and the "Eternal Crusade" disaster
I vividly remember being hyped for DMO and any trickle of information for it. As I recall, progression and leveling seemed to take some liberties with how you'd start out and just being able to level up a marine, playing along side IG. I wonder how it'd play. Crafting professions, aiming. I have go imagine it was doomed from the start. If there was a more clear design goal I'd think we have heard something more concrete. Still I loved the art style and it really meshed with that era of minis. Darksiders II was fantastic, I think DMO would have been cool
This is not the place I expected to have Scooch return to my consciousness
I actually own the homefront novel and I enjoy it, its a prequel to the game and i own both.
I've thought for a long time now that a 40k game that played like a dynasty warriors game would be a hit
good vid guys! hope you are doing alright!
I hope Snipe is doing ok and staying strong
come to think of it for factions it could of been possibly IoM, Eldar vs Chaos vs Orks vs Nids as an npc that invades certain areas from time to time
"How good was that novel... well, it was based on the videogame Homefront..."
Oh man I remember talking about this with people on Warseer and we were absolutely stoked when the first screen shots showed up. Then...it just kinda fizzled out?
I still have no idea why game companies keep trying to kill WoW. I think THQ would have made an absolute GOAT if instead of making an MMO, they made Battlefield: Warhammer 40,000. Just toss in player progression, unlockable cosmetics, and BOOM! Everyone is playing your game. Hell, it could have even been 3rd. person and people would have loved it.
I think they had everything to make a BF: 40k, but got so honed in on the MMO craze of the late 2000s and early 2010s.
I hope this comes out in conjunction with the 40k series that Henry Cavil is working on...
I remember this and followed it at the time. Aimed to be Space Marine 3rd person combat but a kind of DAoC style MMO. Lead producer was the other guy from CCP games. They did the same thing that the Stargate MMO tried to do when they began to run out of money and used the assets they had to make a standard multiplayer shooter but the Stargate one never released (Though did make a cameo on Stargate Universe with a build being played by Eli on his computer) and the 40k one did.
Another casualty of the post-WoW VC craze for MMOs from the mid 2000s to around 2012. The thing they all missed is that WoW was always a casual MMO, ie, one that sought to free players from dependence on each other. This feels good to start but robs the whole game of any kind of purpose. It just devolves into an increasingly single player RPG but with bad combat and quests due to it being an MMO so you get all the disadvantages of an MMO with none of the benefits. People who played the earlier 3d MMOs like Everquest or SWG saw this but the vast bulk of people joined MMOs with WoW and didn't see it. Those people wax nostalgically about how 'hardcore' vanilla WoW was and how it fostered community and interaction but miss that from the start WoW sought to downplay those things and it's ethos was only to dilute them further. I was surprised by how much the MMO community praised it, it seemed like it just stripped away all the virtual world and player interaction, ie the whole point of such a game. You could absolutely play the older games solo but you couldn't avoid other players be it going to a doctor for buffs and queuing to pay him etc. Without those games being true virtual worlds and aping WoW, the original always had first mover advantage and became a kind of natural monopoly on the genre.
EvE has survived so long because it's player interaction and economy are key and very high level and even when played solo you are ultimately interacting with other players. For this reason I think a good 40k MMO setting would be Necromunda and not a DAoC style space marine game. Everything could be made by players in the economy, maybe you could venture out to the ash wastes for rare resources etc and have different player factions fight over territory, lots of potential for endless expansion and world events from chaos uprisings to infestations of all kinds of pests and genestealer cults etc. But the key is player-driven interaction and impacts on the world as well as players needing to interact with each other. Then it becomes a true virtual world that lives and changes even when you're offline and justifies all the sacrifices that would need to be made for it being an MMO instead of just a bad RPG with other players running around.
Yeah it seems like everyone was trying to get into the MMO market circa 2006 ~ 2012. They all tried to be WoW killers, but then none of them killed WoW and WoW is still going, some 20 years later. I tried the demo around 2008 and thought it was one of the most boring games I've ever played, but I saw the appeal.
I think you're right about WoW succeeding because it was so accessible and that was something other developers never understood. EVE succeeds because it's the most PvPist of PvP games that actually encourages griefing and scamming, things that are usually bad for other games.
MMO devs seem like they want to do everything like having the casualness of WoW, the grit of EVE PvP, packaged into a tactical shooter/first person melee, and then can't figure out why they run out of funding or why people who already play games that do those things (but better) don't switch.
@@nekrataali One of the major WoW devs even admitted that they basically destroyed the genre and set it back. Now we have EvE and the only other virtual world is Metaverse, Star Citizen is a defacto MMO but doesn't call itself such. Thinking on it, Blizzard seem to do this all the time, take a game that already exists and is successful blatantly copy it and then strip out a lot out of it (At best, dumb it down or just don't make it as well at worst), add cartoony art style and then be praised if you had invented the genre. (Due to the halo around the company and huge army of fanboys) The only exception to this is Diablo but that game was conceived and developed by a totally different studio that got absorbed into Blizzard. When they tried to 'Blizzardify' Diablo with D3, well, we know how well that went down.
Having played an unhealthy amount of wow back in the day it really comes through how similar both games where in vibes as shown in trailers.
It would’ve been at least cool looking
I feel like the only way that intro could've been even more specific would've been to add ' from Argent Dawn EU'
So fun story! Argent Dawn EU was literally the server the footage was captured on lol
@@SnipeandWibHell yeah! I’ve spent way too much of my life on AD as a RPer 🥲 Haven’t played in about 2 years but I would love to return. Not sure what the RP scene looks like these days