Finally, someone saying it. A handgun is a far far better home defense gun than a shotgun. Shotgun is a great hunting weapon, and is good for varmint defense outside a home, but I would never use one in the hallways or rooms of a home.
We agree which is cool. But I realize opinions will vary. What's funny is how hostile people get when you have a different opinion than they do... well, on the internet anyway. The internet never fails to entertain!
I’ll take a 20 gauge shotgun any day for combat. I was 12 when I killed my first deer 🦌 with my single shot break action 20 gauge with a 28 inch barrel with full choke. Used 3 inch 20 gauge Number 2 Buck. The insides of that deer 🦌 were ABSOLUTELY MUSH!!!!
I disagree, expect return fire when the person you shoot doesn't go down because of your pistol caliber, even if you kill the intruder he might also injure or kill you when returning fire. A shotgun will stop the person 100%. Lack of proficiency with firearms is not an argument against shotguns in my opinion. Grab someones barrel? Look what happened in Kenosha. Also keep in mind that many people don't have to option to own sbr's or pcc's. Agree to disagree.
"Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people. Shotguns, at the right range with the right load, will physically remove a chunk of shit off of your opponent and throw that shit on the floor." - C. Smith
shotguns are like revolvers, a lot of old timers with decades of experience and training swear by them. but are they right for you? they come from a time of conscriptions and drafts and general civic duty where people trained, hunted, went into the military and served abroad. is that you? if not, don't try to emulate their preferences.
@@cagneybillingsley2165 Bro, you can get great with a revolver in like 2 seconds. Use the thumb of your supporting hand to cock the hammer, and a single action is as fast as a semi auto with some dry fire and range practice. Reloading is a different story of course lol
I love that Paul Harrell's video titled "Shotguns don't suck for Home Defence" from 6 years ago is literally the first video off to the right in the related videos column.
I have personally seen a person shot with a shotgun, a regular old hunting shotgun at about 20 feet. The man didn't get up after the first shot to his chest, and he was hit with #4 buckshot. He had a pistol and was threatening my grandfather over a land dispute. When my grandfather saw him walking up to the truck with the pistol my grandad got out, pointed and pulled the trigger. I was watching the guy not realizing my grandad had got out of the truck. All I heard was a loud bang and the guy fell backwards. My grandad wasn't charged since it was a clear case of self defense. Don't be on the business end of a shotgun.
Agreed, don't be on the business end. When you hear that pump or see that barrel coming around the corner indoors, get ready to shoot the homeowner. If you're stealing a car and see a gun rack, shoot the driver first. Be sure to steal the shotgun. If the homeowner/driver might have a pistol, run. You wont know and you'll never see it coming.
Or the fact that even if the bad guy were to move quickly when you pulled the trigger, a shotgun has the capability of severing a limb at close range rendering the bad guy laughably useless as he bleeds out in shock of seeing a stump.
As a street cop in one of the largest cities in America for 20 years in the 80s and 90s I always carried a 12 gauge shotgun and routinely deployed it to clear rooms, homes and buildings, sometimes several times a night. You raise the issue of going around corners with an 18 inch barrel. I’d love for you to explain the big difference between clearing around a corner with an 18 inch shotgun and a 16 or 18 inch semi-auto AR - the new weapon of choice. The concern is not the length of the barrel but rather how the operator approaches and maneuvers the firearm during the approach. It’s all about skill and not length - or so they say. 😅
When dealing with barrel length, you must also consider that an AR will most likely have a flash suppressor which will add around 1 1/2 inches to the barrel making the difference in barrel length practically negligible.
My uncle used Ithaca riot twelve gauge pump short barrel loved it and still owns it and his auto 5 old girl Browning his pops from 1940s He was a philadelphia cop detective in Kensington pa the bad lands 7os to the 90s . Said the right loads the shot gun is the best and better then one bullet coming at you . Good post . Also Paul h. Has a great video shot guns dont suck. Great post
He's right but you also need to be proficient . Shotguns are harder to get good with but if a person is competent with them they are very good in my opinion.
For someone that has put in the time to get proficient with a shotgun I would agree. What the video is more addressing is the new to firearms folks that get a shotgun because someone told them to.
My dad was a sniper during the Korean War and earned a Bronze Star. He had lots of guns, but his go-to for family defense was a .410. Lighter and easier to handle. Far less recoil than a 12 gauge. His reasoning was that he wasn't always home and the bad guys might target our home when it was just mom and us kids, and he wanted a gun that both he and mom could handle. He was right. My mom warded off three men trying to kick in our front door at 2 am (dad out of town) with a single shot from the .410. Years later, I was a teenager and used that same .410 to scare off some men who were trying to steal some farm equipment (I was home alone while my parents were out in the fields for harvest). At that age, I weighed 129 pounds and couldn't easily handle a 12 gauge recoil. .410, no problem, and I practiced a lot with it.
Had a coworker who also preferred the 410. Looked at one actually at MACs gunstore in Indiana, also looked at the supply of 410 and concluded that with push pull technique, I'd be better served with the more common 12 gauge. However, your dad had a good point in terms of his wife and kids.....
The benefit of shotguns is it's versatility. Knowing how to use it as with any weapon is the key. Theres a saddle for every horse and an ass for every saddle.
I am both 11-B and swat qualified police officer that just retired after 35 years. I understand that every weapon has it's place but if I have a choice the shotgun is my first pick.
@@Monestary_Warrior I think that's mainly the point he was trying to make in the video. They're effective and absolutely devastating IF you have training and maintain said training. Unfortunately, the average home defender is not trained.
I have a Glock 35 with a light on my nightstand , but if I'm walking outside I'm also grabbing my Mossberg 590M to me the magazine fed 12 gauge is awesome
@@jameskellogg1162 Colt Border Patrol .357 Magnum and a Remington 870 12 gauge is my bedside setup. Simply because I am the most familiar and practiced with these two firearms.
Must be peacetime army. When I was in the Corps in Afghan and Iraq, our engagements were at 300m to 600m away. Our Terp was given a Benelli Shotgun and they would always be reloading. When rounds start flying from automatic fire the last thing you want is 6 rounds in the chamber even during MOUT in Ramadi or Fallujah.
Finally got a chance to view watch this video, and while I do agree with most of your points just feel a need to point a few things out. 1. There's large parts of the country where a SBR with a silencer is a no-go, and a shotgun becomes more desirable. 2. A decent pump shotgun loaded with basic 00 buckshot is waaaayyyyy cheaper than a carbine or most PCCs. 3. Unless you have a really good reason to(and a reason like "making sure your kids are safe" is a good reason), clearing your own house is a bad idea. And if you're just "hunkering down" in your bedroom, a shotgun pointed at the bedroom door is damn effective self defense tool. 4. A 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot is one of the few man portable firearms that has actual "stopping power", whatever you hit is likely not going to need a second shot. Even armor isn't going to fully protect someone at home defense distances unless it's rifle plates. 5. If you are involved in a home defense shotgun fight where you run the gun dry and have to reload, the entire gun community is going to be reading about you for years to come. So while I admit that shotguns have definite limitations when it comes to self defense, they do have their place. They're a tool for the toolbox that isn't for every situation or every person, but they for sure have their uses.
I came here to say this exact thing. The Shotgun is artillery deployed from a fixed position (safe room/bedroom). If you have to leave the room then use a pistol to retrieve the kids or whatever and bring them into the bedroom then hunker down. Way too many people think they're gonna John Wick it and clear the house unscathed and it's a horrible idea. Of course call 911 as well
Great post! I'll just add that I think shotguns are the more effective tool for those who both 1. have no experience in combat (i.e., most of us), and 2. are less familiar with firearms. Between fear and the adrenaline rush (again, matched with inexperience), having a firearm which you need only vaguely point in the right direction, which has a dispersed field of impact (requiring little skill, especially compared to a handgun), and which makes a lot of likely disorienting noise (magnified indoors) in the process -- is probably the best option.
You lost me when you said that shotguns are very specialized weapons. A shotgun is rather versatile tool, with various ammunition loads available to suit differing needs and environments.
he first said they were general use and could be used for fighting and for hunting, 30 seconds later he said they are specialized...... no the only specialized ones have rifled barrels and stuff.... normal shotguns are very general weapons, and you can use them for practically anything with the right load.
He lost me when he said I think! which means he doesn't know for sure but I know a few folks who used a shotgun in homedefense and they lived to tell the tale..lots of people get tagged with a pisol and didn't realize that they even got hit but not true with the shotgun because one minute your looking at the homeowner n the next your looking at your dead grandmother in a wheat field suronded by golden sunshine lol
Right? He calls a shotgun a "specialized" weapon, and then proposes a PCC????? No, that's not specialized at all, man. You can use a PCC for all kinds of things, like shooting people, and... uh... errrr... Did I mention shooting people?
@@evanwindom3265 PCC's are terrible. They're pistols for people who suck at shooting pistols. I can do literally everything any 9mm pcc can do with my CZ-75, and I can conceal carry that......
@@bobgordon1754 Unless someone has training they have no idea how to clear a house. The thing to do is call the police and set up in a dark corner and wait for them to come to you. In which case a shotgun would be great.
@@curttolley3829 This. If you can't even hit a target with a long gun that has a good sighting radius, several points of stabilization, and multiple projectiles a shot, it will be a miracle for you to hit a target with a gun that has poor sighting radius, one point of stabilization, and one projectile a shot.
@@MinuteBracelet Agree 100%, for a while there back in the day going with friends to the range-pistols/ all my friends that shoot "once in a blue moon" couldn't hit the brod side of a barn, at 20 yrds, and myself for the first 20 min( before warming up). Then i bust out the shottie, "everyone" had fun and could get a few pelets on target. My experiences complete opposite of what is being said in this vid. I might add my shottie is as short as "legally possible'/in my state, never the less will always be my go to. To each his own i guess, -Cheers
@@MAILER-DAEMON I don't agree either, but you response is in the BOZO catagory. Maybe next time try a mature discussion on disagreement. I, for one, am glad you won't be back to futher comment.
Too long and unwieldy with limited ammo capacity? Use a compact bullpup shotgun (Keltec) with dual mag tubes. Don't want to sling lead all over your house? Use slugs. I don't see a problem here.
Yes and no. A trained shotgun user will definitely be vastly better off than an untrained one, but anything involving guns is about considering trade-offs. A shotgun is obviously better than no gun at all, but you aren’t maximizing your potential lethality by using one. Choosing a gun that is better suited for the task you’re using it for is just giving you more advantages.
I couldn't disagree more. The humble shotgun is the most versatile weapon available. ALL game can be taken, and for home defense, its king. From light quail loads, to the most advanced long range sabot slugs, the selection of rounds is almost endless. If I could only have one gun, it would be a 12g pump.
The best weapon is the one you can use. Shotgun has a TON of power, no debating that. I think it's a little less than ideal in home defense just for limited capacity (in most cases) slower loading times, and potential recoil. That being said, if you gave me the option between a pistol and a shotgun, especially a kitted out shotgun? I'd take the shotgun any way of the week. I just think that comparing to the shotgun it looses out to PCCs and your standard intermediate cartridge rifles.
Let's just put this here. - I own a musket for home defense since that's what the Founding Fathers intended. - Four ruffians break into my house. - "What the Devil," as I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky Rifle. - Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man. He's dead on the spot. - Draw my pistol on the second man. Misses him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbor's dog. - I have to resort to the cannon at the top of the stairs loaded with grapeshot. - "Tally ho, lads." The grapeshot shreds two men in the blast. The sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. - Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. - He bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are difficult to stitch up. - Just as the Founding Fathers intended.
it’s like a friend once said “ if i shoot someone in the neck with a pistol he’ll have a hole in his neck, if i use a shotgun with buckshot the guy will be missing part of his lower jawbone”
Yeah but just because its devastating doesn't mean other rounds won't also kill someone with one shot, shoot a block of gel with a 50 yeah it does alot of damage but I'm not going to lug a clunky heavy barrett around my house, what matters more than raw damage is shot placement, how fast you can get lead downrange, and how fast you can reload, all things that are easier on a rifle platform
That’s not what he said. Clearly a shotgun blast ruins someone’s day. But he correctly states it can be unwieldy, low ammo capacity, and hard to reload in a hurry.
@Jose Vasquez you're more likely to land a shot with pretty much any alternative platform, nuff said, I think you underestimate how difficult it can be to land a shot when it's dark, you're stressed, and you're disoriented, and all the training you could put into overcoming the shortcomings of a shotgun you could be vastly more effective with a semi auto pistol or rifle, there is a reason no serious military uses shotguns for anything more than breaching a door.
@Jose Vasquez if you're preparing to only be able to handle the average gunfight maybe you shouldn't be preparing at all, the average person never had a home invasion let alone one where they are home
You lost me at "walking through a house looking for the bad guy". That is the best way to get killed. Never ever clear a house alone it takes a lot of training to clear a house which most do not have! Get to your safe place with your family, call the police and let the bad guy come to you.
I agree. There are only a few gun channels that I watch which promote having a 'safe room'. Many more think everyone is Jocko Willink clearing houses in Iraq.
I had to “clear the house” once. I’ll admit, I was really on edge I’d say on the verge of being afraid. I felt it was necessary to do at the time as I have family on all 3 levels of the house and had to get to all of them one by one.
I disagree. When should you clear your own home? When you heard a noise and want to check it out. When should you not clear your home? When you know a man is in your house. Those are very different scenarios
If you're seeking out a threat presumed to be in your house by clearing corners and rooms by yourself ... you have already failed. You can't cover multiple angles by yourself and you have at least a 50/50 chance of choosing the wrong angle to enter at and get blindsided by whatever threat you're seeking out. Find a choke point and let the threat come to you.
Many people have children who's bedrooms are on the other side of the house, or on another floor. That's a 100% legitimate reason why you may need to clear your home, or at very minimum clear a portion/path to your other loved ones. People who make absolute declarative statements about what people should or shouldn't do in dangerous/tactical situations aren't thinking enough about all the variables that exist for other people's particular situations. Not everyone has the luxury of just barring the door and hunkering down until law enforcement arrives.
Great point! Anyone without a plan to defend their family at a choke point is very likely to be a danger to everyone. Clearing the house is very foolish.
@@kbjerke though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil. For my 1100 and my 1911, they comfort me. Should we meet in hell let it be with a grin on the face and a great story on the tongue.
You know, Paul Harrell says shotguns don't suck for home defense and I believe him. By the way, he used to be a firearms instructor on active military duty.
What I recently learned is that in firearms engagements, 12 gauge is king as far as win% and fewest shots fired. statistically. source needed but I think it stands to reason.
@@paveclaw3865 the wound on most shotgun wounds aren't really a gunshot wound. Its usally just a large chunk of flesh thats been blown off... remember a 12gauge = 701. Caliber. Think of a cal 50bmg... now thing of a 70 cal. Thats what a 12gauge hole is
I have successfully defended my life with a shotgun from a hostage situation. Literally. That said I would have preferred an AR. I still think it’s absurd to dismiss a shotgun outright though.
The shotgun is an awesome firearm but like with every tool you must be proficient in it's use. If you can plan and practice your home defense plan till you know it like it is second nature you will be well armed with a shotgun as long as the firearm will shoot reliably every time you squeeze the trigger.
@@mrpete2405 I think a fair argument could be made that, even though you're right and you must be proficient with your tools, it's easier to be proficient with a shotgun than a handgun for example.
@@CVMN-kf2qc yes I've been a handgun owner since the 70s and became a firearms instructor in 93. My last trip to the range was last Sunday so I feel pretty comfortable with handguns. The way my house is laid out it would be hard to get to the rooms if I am parked in the cubby hole in the hallway with a shotgun either.
Good lord, I disagree so much with some of the arguments here. New shooters aren't going to understand how to clear buildings with any length gun. Shotguns are fine for hunkering down while someone is on the phone with the police. If you have to reload a shotgun, that basically means you missed 5+ times with a shoulder fired weapon at distances less than 10 yards and that there are still people attacking you after your fired at them 5+ times. If this is the case for you, then you've faltered in many other aspects of life outside of your shooting ability and equipment. People don't tend to fold after being shot with handguns the way they do after being shot with shotguns. The list goes on. Shotguns are fine home defense firearms. The one major argument against them is their more complicated manual of arms in comparison to handguns and most carbines one might consider for this application.
My thoughts exactly I was looking for this comment. He is looking at it from a tactical POV. Criminals are looking for victims not resistance. When the shooting starts they are leaving as fast as they can, they aren’t gonna stay and fight. I tell my wife put that 00 buck center mass when they silhouette in the bedroom door if they make it past the dog.
This! Also, depending on what state you live in, you might be put in front of a jury to determine if it was self defense. Not having a picture of a "scary looking" gun showed to the jury can be the difference between walking out of that room as a free man or going to jail. As shitty of an argument this is to people who own guns, it's real life. Shotguns aren't scary. An AR pistol eith red dot and a flashlight is scary to these mindless drones
IMO shotguns are not complicated and easier to learn. Rifles for most urban and suburban areas too risky to innocent neighbors. Country folk, take your pick.
In a home defense situation, you won't need to worry about reloading a shotgun unless it's a single shot. One hit from a load of 00 is more devastating than 2 or 3 rounds from almost any pistol or small bore rifle. Even with training in high stress situations most people can't hit squat with a pistol. I have pistols, rifles, and shotguns, in close quarters I'll take the trench sweeper every time.
I agree 100%. Everyone acts like it’s going to be an action movie. And it’s not. Most people will have a fully loaded shotgun with one in the chamber. A lot of assumptions about incompetency had to be made for the argument “shotguns suck” to work
You are giving criminals to much credit. You could have seen on TV the riot iedoits running toward a ar. Now add a bunch of meth,crack,or even just beer. And you have unpredictable stupid people.
I was the criminal in a case involving a homeowner who had awoken and racked a shotgun saying out loud “I have a gun” I won’t go to into detail but I had a person with me during the event and both of us gtfo I have been arrested and already done my time for the crimes I’m mentioning and I am fully reformed I will never go down that very dumb road again
@opisex well the way I see it: any slide/pump rack sound is gonna be scary. But when you, hear it, it's too late to run away. So you have no choice but to fight. Now you no longer have a criminal who wants your TV, you have a person fighting tooth and bloody nail for their life
To clear a house or property not a good choice with little to no training. To take a tactical position behind a closed door behind a bed calling 911 and waiting for authorities, a pump shotgun with 00 buck is hard to beat. Remember not everyone is going to go looking for the intruder, and for some people that is the right choice. For those a defensive position with a reliable pump shotgun loaded with 00 buck, if the bad person comes through the door you have the ability to put back out the door. If you miss and a 8 inch section of the door disappears, most will be assholes and elbows getting out of there and that is a win also.
@@michaelmurdock6005 It's a shame that 00 is so over hyped. It makes #1 much harder to find and when you do there aren't nearly the number and kinds of defensives loads like there are for 00.
No, do not use 00 buck for home defense especially if you live in a multi family complex. Use #4 Buckshot. The absolute largest I would take it is #1 buckshot like the other gentlemen here are saying but even that is a risk.
Tim, you may be right if you are home alone, but if you have children and/or other family members, you may need to clear the home. I think a pistol is better in that case. I have an FNX Tactical .45 with silencer, light and red dot. My go to home defence gun. Hard to beat 15 rounds of .45.
@Adam pulls trigger once on shotgun, spends month cleaning entrails out of carpet and replacing drywall. Pulls trigger once on pistol caliber, hears strung out drug addict laugh.
Have to disagree with you on this one. All of your arguments are bases on training and money... $300 for a shotgun, $3000.00 for your suppressed B&T This should have been called, "get training!" Because arguing that someone would not know how to pump their pump shotgun is a bit silly. This is the same argument that someone with a semi auto pistol would not know how to rack the slide after inserting a magazine. The only legitimate argument is the over all size. But let's face it... if yiu are untrained, you should not be running around your house or out in your yard... you should be barricaded in your room and on the phone with 911
@Adam I agree. Use what you're comfortable with. Clint hates PCC's in general, he goes either handgun or rifle. I understand his thinking and I have nothing but respect for him.
Put a security bar under your doorknobs on entry/exit doors. These bars will not stop a determined intruder, but the extra noise created will give you time to wake up from a deep sleep and time to grab your self-defense weapon. The extra seconds or minutes may make the difference.
I think its funny when people live an a sketchy place or just want to feel safe wherever, will shell out so much cash for the latest and greatest bang stick, but not spend the 40 bucks in off the shelf and DIY methods to prevent break ins. The security bar you mentioned in its various forms, anti kick plates that sit along the door jam screwed into the studs with 4 in screws or if they have enough cash, security bars on windows and metal screen doors. The cost up front is a lot but it pays itself off for the next 30 years. Ive got my bang sticks but before bed and before I leave the house i make sure everything is locked up tight.
I respectfully disagree and think a shotgun is one of the most underrated and versatile weapons you can own. Also, stirring the pot is exactly why you titled and posted the video.
@Graf von Losinj this is all a weird argument. If you have a shotgun then you automatically have self defense. Who gives a crap what is better at that point. Playing the woulda coulda shoulda game isn’t really necessary. Options is what anyone wants but to kinda bash a shotgun is a weird take
Is a shotgun the best for everyone? Probably not since every home is laid out differently and certain firearms may not be safe in your home. A shotgun would be safe in my home since the rooms that I would be protecting are behind me and to one side so if you are shooting at me and miss the shots do not go into the bedrooms and any shooting I do would be toward the entrance walls that are wallboard with a concrete wall behind it and the closest home in that direction is roughly 300 feet (100 yards) after the shots go through the concrete wall.
@@Kinkkis Well what bugs me the most here is that he's purposely lagging with those reloads. A side saddle shotshell holder with some reload reps will clear that up easy. Wants it to look bad then chooses a piss poor caliber as a primary. Yeah no.
The sheer power coming out of a shotgun is undeniable. Some firearms may be smaller or more ergonomic but, you get hit with a shotty inside a house you’re fried
That doesn't matter if you MISS. Look at Kyle Rittenhouse. He said he attempted to buy a shotgun instead but they were sold out. Thank God for that AR or I have no doubt he'd be dead.
@@col.cottonhill6655 Get facts right. Kyle Rittenhouse could not buy a shotgun or rifle because he was 17 at the time. He told police and the media that he gave money to his friend Dominick Black to buy the AR for him. That's a straw purchase and federal offense (felony) and both Rittenhouse and Black can be charged. His friend was charged. They both knew he was underage and that he couldn't possess the rifle and he admitted to police and media that it was a straw purchase.
People do this with shotguns all the time and it drives me nuts… they say shotguns suck and then as justification for that statement they point to a bunch of dumb shotgun myths that are going around, like the sound of it being racked. Yes, that’s a myth. But how does the existence of that myth help your argument that shotguns aren’t good for home defense?
@@Dcm193 Rifles have a shorter learning curve for sure. But if you put in the time to learn how to run a shotgun I’d say they’re every bit as effective as a rifle for HD.
@@GringoFusilero I mean ballistically rifles win and still it takes a shit load of practices I get good at running a shot gun manly the loading . Shot guns in my opinion should always run a variant of buckshot. Never slugs because you get a lot of recoil with less damage than a 308
In regards to the 'ka-chunk' situation; In 2007 when I was living in a slumlord apartment, my neighbour was drunk with 3 of his friends. They found out that I'm a musician and have expensive gear so they came knocking. They yelled at me through the door saying, "LET US IN OTHERWISE WE'RE GONNA KILL YOU." I had a flimsy door and one giant window. I got on the ground near my door (but not in front of it) and racked it after giving verbal commands. The next thing I hear is very uncoordinated footsteps running down the stairs. Never did I have problems with George or his friends ever again. I am very practiced with my gas and pump guns and feel very confident in my use of them. However, I also have a light enabled handgun in the safe right next to my pump gun. I shoot shotguns so much better than I do with handguns so I always gravitate towards them but handguns are an overall better option for close quarters. It is difficult to beat the versatility of a good shotgun in the hands of a trained gunner.
This is very similar to what happened to a friend of mine and why I keep an AK in a closet with a loaded mag and empty chamber. The sound of a gun being racked is completely stupid and very reckless if someone is already inside your house but can be a great deterrent to anyone who is still outside and is trying to get in!! I keep a loaded gun (handgun) by my bed ready to go and that AK in the closet by the front door
Before even watching, I am going to guess: -Lower ammo capacity -Possible collateral damage the further out you shoot -limited range. A rifle round is general purpose from bad breathe out to hundreds of yards. Shotguns have to use slugs to get that extended range, but they are known to be devastating with buckshot -slow fire rate -atrocious reload times compared to a 30 round magazine But buckshot always has a place in my heart
-GCA1968 mandated the external disconnect button on pump shotguns nearly got my Aunt killed in 1969. She traded it for a Plainfield M-1 carbine that has never jammed and guards her family to this day.
Sorry MAC, I'm gonna stick with Paul Harrel this time. In this difficult time, not all the people have stocks of guns and ammo like the community do, so they may have to use what they got. In my opinion, we should be familiar with what guns or even tools we have, even a single barrel shotgun. For shotgun users, the first training in my opinion is to keep the gun point at target while loading, not the fast reloading we use in compitiation, same as other weapons. If a user doesn't really have time and doesn't want to know his/her tools, he/she will become dead meat in the scenario.
People kill people. A firearm is only a tool. If a man is trained up and familiar with his equipment he will do well. A untrained man or woman with a two thousand dollar firearm will get beat by a trained and motivated man or woman armed only with a stick.
He isn't saying you should go out and buy a pcc or rifle he is talking about if you had to choose a weapon for home defense what would be best or if you recommended a gun for home defense whats the best, if I went out specifically to get a gun for home defense a shotgun would be the worst option
@@Banefulailment Shotguns are very popular with cheapskates who just want a cheap gun and a $300 pump action shotgun seems excellent "bang for your buck". They aren't seriously considering ammunition costs as they're not going to practice with this weapon. Even if they did they'd buy the cheapest ammo - birdshot - and really have no way of knowing how well they're shooting, did all the pellets hit or did barely a few hit? The only thing they'll be learning to do is to flinch from the recoil, that flinch will get worse if they ever try to shoot under stress or from a difficult position.
@@Treblaine At any distance you would shoot a home invader bird shot will do the job quite well. Most shotguns are patterned at 30 yards. Are there any rooms in your home that are 90 feet across? There is no question which is the better self defense weapon. I'll take the shotgun every time. Point and shoot over aim and shoot.
MAC this is one of the FEW times I have to respectfully disagree. I teach a weapons package to Navy warfighters at Little Creek and have come to understand the advantages and disadvantages of a shotgun for individual home defense. 1. Per the FBI uniform crime stats, required 2nd shot follow ups are almost non existent with 12ga 00 buck. Thats data over the last 30+ years. 2. 9 .30 cal projectiles per pull of the trigger. (Try explaining 9 pistol holes on your threat to the DA or Jury when it goes to court, and it will). 3. Shotgun dispersion at distances inside of a standard home dwelling is negligible (YMMV know thy weapon and ammo). At CQB distance you can almost use it like a rifle. 4. Engagements beyond 25 meters with a shotgun (or any weapon) is pushing the limits of legally plausible to a Jury in most cases. Some exceptions apply. 5. Knowing your dwelling and construction one can select what loads are appropriate to prevent over penetration of drywall while still maintaining lethality across a standard bedroom. 6. If the operator is too stupid to use a shotgun under duress they are likely too stupid to place rifle or pisol rounds inside a threats thoracic cavity effectively while under duress. 7. Inside apartments and condos a rifle bullet may buy you more jail time for collateral injury than a shotgun. 8. Every round fired has an attorney attached to it. Period! Explaining to a court that you only pulled the trigger ONCE or at most twice is much easier than why you pulled the trigger 3, 5 , or 16 times. Two 00 Buck balls rounds inside a thoracic cavity at toom distance will put 18. .30 caliber balls on target In under 2 seconds. Thats a much more palitable explanation to a jury than a mag dump and “I shot till the threat was reduced”. 9. No argument on the 18” length aside from “train with what you have”. Shotguns are accessible to almost any non felon anywhere in the USA and even the communist controlled areas. That’s all I’ve got brother. Keep up the killer channel!!!
Best explanation I've seen. My dad was a cop for 30 years, a 12 gauge loaded up with buckshot is a devastating home defense weapon especially in low light where your aim could be compromised
solid points except for the over penetration part. The shotgun will most likely go through more walls than say a 5.56 round. 5.56 will fragment faster and loose velocity faster. Buckshot will keep going and if it hits a person will be more deadly.
Unfortunately a lot of the arguments against shotguns for HD are disingenuous. The threat against the 2A has pushed a lot of the gun community to make arguments that the AR-15 and variants is some god-gun with respect to HD. Bottom line is the 12G shotgun with buckshot is still the most efficient way to stop an attacker with a single trigger pull. And modern reliable shotguns make the argument even more solid. It remains the best weapon for SD when the number of attackers is relatively small and magazine capacity is not an issue.
While I agree to an extent about the length of a shotgun and inexperience clearing CQ situations. Pistols are not all they're said to be in close quarters either. With your arms extended in a shooting position a shotgun is really only about 4-5 inches long than a pistol. And a pistols anemic energy on target, louder sound disrupting the shooter, and difficulty to shoot compared to a long gun doesn't bode well for untrained shooters either. A 12 gauge with #1 buckshot is one of the best one shot man stoppers available.
I agree Lighting isn’t always going to be on your side of advantage which puts the user with the pistol at a more disadvantage where using a 12ga even with bird shot you just need to graze the intruders enough to shock him which would give you even more opportunity to eliminate the treat on the 2 shot. If you need to use an entire tube/Mag of ammo then you need more practice with your weapons!
@@TheMitchapalooza69 NEVER use birdshot in your home defense weapon. If you have to use your weapon for lethal force use a round that can deliver the most lethal dose possible. For 12 gauges #1 buckshot is the smallest size that still gets 12"+ in ballistics gel and delivers more wounds than 00 buckshot will.
Dad used to take us out shooting hand trap. He kept it fast paced. You learned how to load and top off a shotgun quick! Later, when the dove and ducks were flying good, it came in handy. It’s training based and a perishable skill.
Since most home defence altercations take place at 5 to 10 yards, either a handgun, or a shotgun is ideal. A load of double ought from either a 12 gauge, or 20 gauge shotgun at less than ten yards is devastating. Nine pellets of 30 caliber fired at one time, as opposed to firing a handgun nine times for the same effect. That's why shotguns don't suck for home defence.
What, are you using a .32ACP pistol loaded with FMJ? A 9mm bullet reliably expands to about .60 which is quadruple the frontal area of a .30 caliber pellet so 1 shotgun shell is about the equivalent of 2 pistol bullets for the same effect. 9mm pistol typically has twice the capacity and you could easily fire it twice as fast, but a handgun is far easier to keep closer by you when sleeping in a small safe or even permanently carry it on you everywhere you go in your house. And it's way harder to take a handgun from someone than a long arm. Not that a handgun is ideal, like a shotgun it's not easy to shoot quickly and accurately, you need to spend a lot of time and money (on ammo) training with it to become competent. But the compromises of a handgun make sense for a much smaller package.
@@steveshep100 There's just been too many trials where people were accused of murder from firing even a single shot. And there's been cases where people shot loads of times and it never went to trial. Really, other circumstances count far more like whether who was armed, who was the instigator, and the trial seems to turn on almost every minutiae.
A handgun sucks for home defense. The amount of gun fights that end in both defender and attacker both being shot when both are armed with pistols are just too high. You're not trying to trade shots, you're trying to incapacitate the intruder before he knows what hit him. For me, a rifle( or sbr) in rifle calibers or a shotgun is my minimum for home defense. A pistol is a compromise that should only be used for mobility. When mobility isn't a issue, grab something else.
You've lost your mind. If they're not getting trained with a shotgun then they Shure as hell won't train with a pistol. That and the idea of stealthy stalking an intruder is pure fantasy. You can train anyone to have a high hit probably at indoor distances with a long gun in far less rounds then with a pistol. And the shotgun with a proper loading is absolutely devastating.
Yup, totally ridiculous. This guy has delusions of grandeur. If an intruder is hell bent on doing you harm (as opposed to trying to steal your stuff), and if he is skilled enough to gain entry into your house while also clumsy enough to wake you up... he knows where you are. Anyone can "say" they are armed... but a shotgun rack doesn't lie. Are you really trying to lay ambush for the intruder in your house rather than scare him off without putting your life in further jeopardy?
1000% agree. Pistol marksmanship requires much more practice than shotgun. Run 100 rounds through your shotgun and you can defend yourself with it pretty well 100 rounds of pistol training is barely starting.
At the end of the day we are discussing the most effective way to blow holes in bad guys. I believe the shotgun is the best overall for home defense. Most people can afford one, they are simple to use and clean and need minimal training to get familiar with one.
@@ryze9153 Very effective, if I want to kill a bear, or a human 50 yards away, or two humans one behind the other. For engaging single humans at self defense distances, a lighter load will work.
I was told by many different military people as well as gun instructors that shot guns are one of the best home defense weapons. I feel like we're going back in time with this video
No they don't, they say an AR15 or some other semi-auto rifle is the best. What they say is that the shotgun is one of the most powerful which is very different from saying it's even one of the best. We're talking about replicating ballistics of a 17th century musket here, and the ammunition is huge, a box magazine that holds only 5 rounds of 12 gauge is the same size as a magazine that holds 30 rounds of 5.56mm which hugely limits capacity. There is a difference between saying that the shotgun is the best choice for defending your home and saying that if you're going to use a shotgun AT ALL it's best used in home defense. Those are two different things. There are such big problems with a shotgun that you NEED the "home advantage" of only using it within your own residence.
Myself being a former Army Ranger I personally think a shotgun is the best home defense and tactical weapon . First off with any weapon you need the right one. In my opinion the benelli m4 is an outstanding home defense shotgun they very reliable and with 00 buck shot all you need to do is point the weapon at the intruder amd fire no matter where you hit the intruder he will go down , hit him in the arm his arm will be laying on your floor. One shot one kill if you hit him in chest. Federal tactical flight control 00 buck shots are nice shells woth low recoil. The mossberg 590A1 and Beretta 1301 are two other very good shotgun home defense that are very reliable. You want a weapon that will fire when you need it the most. A shotgun has a wider spread pattern than a pistol. If you do decide to use a hand gun as a home defense weapon then I would recommend something with low recoil for accuracy like a 9mm or smaller. Especially if your a female. But a 12 Guage shotgun is the best in my opinion but everyone has there own opinions. If you buy a cheap shotgun or handgun you get what you pay for you will most likely have jamming issues which you don't want when someone breaks into your home at 2 am . Don't be cheap your life depends on it, buy a good brand weather it be a shotgun or handgun. I personally have a benelli m4 with red dot and tactical push button light mounted to picanny rail with 7 rounds , 8 rounds if I ghost load a shell. I have had my benelli in mud, water, dropped it off a 15 foot cliff only thing that broke on it was the light mounted on the rail it fired perfectly as of now I have fired over 3000 rounds and never had a jam I clean it every time I fire it. Which is very important.
Alright, sorry as a combat vet that carried a shotgun in the mix and carried it slung except for use on doors and 4 legged problems, I still call shenanigans. All gripes are training related, easily overcome in a few hours of instruction- even amateurs' instruction-and then some practice. And MAC's answer is basically a civilianized SMG? With a can? They're all tools. Giving untrained people rifles, PCCs/SMGs or Glocks is not going to lessen such structural issues or negligent discharges, and the shotgun has the fringe benefit of less lethal range to terrorize bystanders for that inevitable tunnel vision.
Its a matter of choice but what ever you use get training with said firearm and practice practice practice. If Tim wants to use a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) or even a SMG that's his choice for his situation. Why is everyone an expert? when they can't figure out its a matter of personal preferences. The internet is full of ppl who think they are all that, but in reality they are just a box of rocks.
Also, the gist of the video is shotguns being poor for a CQB assault. Almost nothing in this video had any rational attachment to home defense -- which is 1) call 911, 2) stay the fuck put and point your gun at the door to the room you're in.
It's the training thing that's the problem. most people won't do what it takes to be proficient. Most of us vets don't have a problem with it but we are the minority and you can forget trying to get most girls to even shoot 12ga shotguns twice. not when the can have an AR.
@SickCall Ranger "Give me something that goes bang and I'll make it happen. I would have no problem picking up a shotgun and getting the party started"
Ultimately, with the right load, the shotgun is the closest thing you’re going to the “one shot stop”, it’s not for everyone, you can’t suck at shooting due to the limited capacity and doing slower to reload. It comes down to capability and familiarity. If you’re competent they definitely don’t suck, but we live in an era where most honestly aren’t truly familiar with them.
It doesn't matter how much you train, if you face off against a half trained individual "sucking at shooting" won't matter if they know how to use cover.
@@gullyactual1898 ok, we will ignore that most nothing in a house is cover, or that switching to something else isn’t likely to defeat what’s cover to a shotgun or even a pistol.
Yep, if you're familiar with them you statistically won't use more than 3 rounds, can short stock in tight quarters, can switch from buck to slug if bg finds "cover" and refuses to leave, and a bad hit with a 12 ga is better than a bad hit with something else.
"Slower to reload." Hmm. I don't know. It's a tube gun, and 12 Guage shells are plenty big enough to grasp. Unlike tube fed .22lr. The point is, the tube allows you to top off or even slap shells straight into the chamber. It's almost unlimited ammo if you play it right. Considering 00 buck typically has 9 pellets, it's almost full auto. 1 trigger pull is 9 rounds times that by at least 5 rounds is 45 pellets. Even with all that benefit towards the shotgun. I'll stick with my AR. 55 gr fmj travels fast enough that over penetration doesn't exist.
I prefer the Paul Harrell viewpoint on it. Reloading is largely irrelevant in a realistic home defense scenario. I think the two most important traits in a home defense gun are how immediately a single trigger pull can end a threat and how maneuverable it is. PCCs and shotguns are both on the opposite ends of the spectrum for that. I think a full auto SMG would be the perfect balance of both, of course acquisition of one of those isn’t nearly as easy as the other two.
@@ThomasHendrickson Mostly, but on a good SMG like an MP5 it’s perfectly usable. You just don’t see military/police ranges used that way so much anymore because rifles are more prevalent for general use.
@@arcblooper2699 after a second look at your comment, I think I understand your point better. My bad. Come to think of it, I’m fairly certain that the MP7 is MORE useful on full auto because of the weak ammunition used. Or the Calico .22LR.
1) A Shotgun is literally opposite of a "specialized tool". A pump action is literally the most versatile firearm on the planet. 2) Within common home distances, most buckshot rounds pattern very closely. If you're concerned, buy a box of whatever flight control made by umpteen companies. 3) If you have people coming into your home specifically to attack and kill you and your family, I'm assuming you did something to piss them off. Otherwise, making your position know and informing them you are armed is a great first step in deterring a violent criminal. Oddly enough I use the same approach with Bears. 4) You state shotguns are long, cumbersome and make it hard to maneuver homes (even with 18" barrels) but then showcase a pump action even shorter than your Benelli lol 5) Usually a rifle that fires a single projectile, in a very high stress home invasion situation would normally lead to lower hit probability vs a shotgun that fires multiple objects. Adrenaline sets in when it gets real, it takes more effort to shoulder and actually aim a PCC or SBC. Also kind of funny the same situation applies with Bears lol not to mention a 9mm or 5.56 will penetrate much farther than buckshot simply based off energy numbers. So I understand this video was made for exactly what I just did, comment. And it helps your algorithms and gets attention to your video but as a firearms channel that should be unbiased when it comes to information about specific topics like this, I gotta say I'm a little disappointed.
i usually love their videos, but this one was seemingly put together by someone who clearly hasn't exercised combat tactics with proper shotguns and duress situations.that being said. if you do not have extended firearms experience i recommend a short shotgun. because in a duress situation if someone comes through your front door trying to kill you, you are more likely to instantly disable the target and more likely to hit the target as well, pistols having short barrels means that any small change in sight picture can make you miss at almost stupid close distances, rifles arent practical in duress without extended training and depending on your home situation isn't practical either. i am comfortable using all of the above for home defense as i live alone and have training sufficient enough to have muscle memory in a defense/duress situation. but saying shotguns suck for defense is not correct at all, if you miss with 6 shots in a shotgun, chances are you arent going to hit with 12-19 shots in a 9mm or whatever you're shooting. shotguns are still used to this day from military and police(for more than breaching). if they were that shitty they would be gone by now.
I would have to respectfully disagree. Anyone untrained can improperly use any type of weapon or employ that weapon in a tactically unsound manner. For weaker or smaller people(many women, the elderly, some disabled people) a shotgun is probably not the right choice. For most other people, it is a quite good choice. The power of a shotgun is undeniable and a hit at close range with 00 Buck, #4 Buck, or even a heavy birshot load(see Paul Harrell's video on Bird Shot in Your Home Defense Shotgun) on someone, even if they are drugged up, is very likely going to stop them immediately. Capacity doesn't really concern me either, as the 6-8 rounds most home defense style shotguns hold is plenty to deal with most situations. If you want more shells on the gun just in case, buy one of those Velcro shell holder cards that mount to the side of your gun's receiver and practice topping off the magazine tube with it. Clearing your house, unless you are trying to secure family members, is generally not a good idea. Unless forced to do otherwise, you should stay in your bedroom(assuming someone broke in while you were asleep) and call the police. If the guy who broke in tries to come through your door, first warn him that you have a gun and forcefully tell him to leave/cops are on the way. If he doesn't do that and manages to break through your door, blow him away. So, shotguns are not the right choice for everyone in every home defense scenario, but they definitely don't suck for a great many people's needs.
but we do have to take care of family members. So we do have to "clear the house". And besides, there have been multiple cases when I had to grab something and just go investigate - for example a stupid possum got trapped in the garage. I'm not going to call 911 on him in the middle of the night. So I do need something that I can move around the house with. Shotgun is just way too big. Even a much shorter AK is problematic around some tight corners and stairs. For me, in our house, if I went with a shotgun, I'd go with one of those "not a shotguns" without a stock. Hard to fire accurately, but should be very efficient within a house.
Excellent post and reply! I was going to bring up the same point as Alex did, if you have kids sleeping in another room, animals or just something extremely dear to you I agree that you cant just stay in your bedroom but if you do have that luxury, a shotgun is definitely one of your best choices for those of us who arent incredibly into guns and perhaps only own one or two guns. A shotgun can hunt almost anything from small birds to large deer and does a good job at self-defense. If I could only own one gun it would be a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun. Luckily I can own more so my choice is an AR carbine, easy for me to use, easy for my wife to use. Ready to go with a shake awake red dot cant be beat if you ask me!
I think you really made the case more for training, than against shotguns in this video. If you lack training with your firearm there are plenty of costly mistakes you can make, doesn't matter if it's a shotgun or not. And if you are trained, it shouldn't really matter because you know the limits and strengths of your weapon and situation. Also love your channel, man.
Saying pumping your shotgun gives away your position is a redundant excuse. Aren’t you already going to shout at the home invader anyways? Tell him to leave, ask who he is? There’s been so many cases of mistaken identity where people shoot first ask questions later and that huge mistake landed them in prison for a long time. And seriously, reload time? How many people actually needed to reload during a home invasion? You ain’t gonna miss with a shotgun and chances are, you’re not gonna be invaded by a whole army. No thief is gonna stick around for a full blown fire fight.
The irony of saying shotguns aren’t good for basically tactical use as he’s holding a benelli m4 used by the best military and swat units in the world lmao
When is the last time you saw any member of a swat team use a shotgun as a weapon? I think maybe sub 2010 is the last common uses. Swat uses shotguns for less lethal and breaching almost exclusively from what i've seen
I don't buy into all the usual 'stopping power' talk, but it does seem like a solid hit from 12 gauge buckshot is as close as you can get to a guaranteed one-shot stop.
@Jon M I am highly doubt you will have a chance to empty your tube … by the time it is empty ether all intruders will be dead or run away or you will be dead …
@Jon M with multiple attackers, I'd rather shoot three rounds slower to take out three attackers than use 1/3 to 1/2 a mag of a pistol into each of the three and possibly have to reload, which many people don't carry a second mag during home defense. And the time you loose during the pump you make up for not having to shoot 10+ times to stop the treat while they are still shooting at you.
@@foodooyou1 while all of the points you mentioned are valid, the point of intimidation I believe is still relevant. While the shotgun is iconic in that concept, shooting the first guy 8 times is more likely to scare the second and make him think of running than one shot
I was working at a heart doctors house, and I seen some targets he’d shot hanging in his basement. We talked awhile and I asked him what he used for home defense. He asked me how many people you hear about getting shot with hand guns surviving. And of course it’s quite a few. He then asked how many you here about getting shot with a shotgun surviving, of course I said none. His reply was because they go straight to the morgue. Bad example is a buddy of ours was turkey hunting, and some how laid the shotgun on his truck seat. And it went off when he climbed in. He got hit in the leg, which probably would have been “ livable” had it been a hand gun. But it pretty much blew his leg off, and he bled to death in a matter of minutes.
I have a shotgun for home defense and here is my logic. There are a lot of crackheads in my area. A pistol is only going to poke holes in someone. Without hitting a very specific spot, a pistol round is going to do much against a drugged up attacker. Also, when you're indoors you're much more vulnerable. It's very easy to get cornered. I want a guaranteed one shot stop. A 12 gauge to the upper torso is going to take any man down, drugged up or not. I've seen videos of people getting shot 5-10 times or more by handguns and continue to stand. Donut operator has a video about sgt Timothy Gramins, who shot a man over 10 times (with a .45) in various vital organs including his heart, and he was still actively shooting back until he shot the suspect in the head and ended it. Now imagine that same scenario inside your house. That's why I use a shotgun for home defense.
Agree with most of your observations - the big things you left out are cost and legallity. Your cool little PCC would be far more expensive than a regular 12GA pump and would be illegal (as short and suppressed) in many states. Thanks for the video!
Exactly. The average novice gun owner that only wants one gun to keep in the closet and never go shooting, just literally defense only, will buy $180 mossberg maverick 88.
As others have said, I'm going with Paul Harrel on this one. If I want info on a military arm, this channel is useful. For personal defense type info, nah..
Shotguns are much better than AR-15 for home defense if you're talking about the 5.56mm AR-15. It is the overpenetration that could kill your loved ones. If it is an AR-15 PCC, then that is much better than a shotgun. A rifle style of handling, pistol caliber rounds packed in a high capacity mag, and no overpenetration.
@@hoppinggnomethe4154If over penetration is an issue then police wouldn't be using them to do entries with or even have them in cruisers patrolling cities. There are 5.56 loads that are ideal for home defense, they just cost a little more but you'll only need 2 mags worth for that while using bulk to train with.
This guy, "I'd never want to give my position away with the sound of a pump shotgun", then says he'd clear the house with a pistol and a position giving light. Then immediately goes into showing his sbr which he says he'd only use outside. Besides the obvious negative legal ramifications of chasing an intruder outside or going outside to "handle" anyone else who at that point are not an immediate threat to your safety and in your home, and the maybe not so obvious safety issues which one should try to think about before acting, you probably should not exit your home. A few scenarios: In the country or the city the intruder or intruders could have buddies outside waiting to shoot you if you run outside to play rambo. In the crowded city you might mistake the wrong individual who sees you as a threat and reacts to defend themselves as you are running in their direction with a firearm in a ready to use stance. What if a neighbor saw the intruders looking suspicious and called the cops and by the time the cops are arriving on scene you come running out looking like a bad guy running and gunning. Please discard all of these non legitimate running and gunning fantasies and get real. Think of as many real life possibilities and scenarios that can happen so you can react properly and allow yourself and others to continue living as peaceful as possible. Stay strapped up with whatever you choose and keep a monk mentality.
This is why I don’t take many content creators seriously because people drink their Kool-Aide and find out that their favorite gun channel personally isn’t going to 1) bail them out of jail. 2) pay for their lawyer fees. 3) be the prosecutor. 4) be the judge. 5) and lastly be the jury. These Internet personalities are going to be inside their warm homes counting their money from our views or the idiots who buy their Amazon garbage while banging their hot wives. The gun community has become a gun range beauty pageant and we must bring back the Fudds to bring back balance against the Tactifool and competition community.
I don't recall him giving any tactics or training in how to clear a house. Closest he came was saying those who haven't been trained wave the end of a barrel around giving away your position to an intruder before the home owner sees the intruder. And you are aware most lights have a momentary switch on them right?
The title of the video ( after watching it ) should be “Shotguns suck IN A HANDS OF UNTRAINED OPERATOR”…. all his points against shotguns are falling down to the assumption that people do not know how to use shotguns …
Less than 1% of firearms owners ever attend any form of professional training. Those who are dumb enough to select a shotgun over a rifle are very much not the type of people to spend money on training.
No mention of one very important factor--cost. A good pump shotgun can be had for under $300, while the least pricey PCCs will cost over $500. Lots of people have limited budgets for guns.
he's describing more of a military combat situation in a building rather than a home invasion. if an intruder came in my bedroom and I could get a shotgun pointed at them in time. I can think of nothing better under those circumstances
I’ve got to say this video was some of the worst content I’ve seen MAC put out. I understand his position on the shotgun but this video should be titled “why shotguns and a lack of training are terrible for novices”.
But statistically, most home defence confrontations are resolved with a single shot and shotguns have the highest single shot lethality of any weapon type in successful real world home defence confrontations…
I appreciate the discussion, and all of this is based on training & experience. I'm in CA; the 12 ga pump gun is my "tactical rifle." I live in a stereotypical suburban residential neighborhood but less than 100 yards away is very thick natural underbrush where 5.56 does poorly. I'd still opt for the 12 ga shotgun heading into it.
1. Shotguns NEED A SLING, then no one will take it away. Problem solved. 2. 5+1 or 8+1 of 12 gauge, NO need to reload. Next 3. Buck shot at house distances is JUST like a single projectile. Next 4. 12 gauge MORE powerful than an underpowered handgun round in a carbine.
Sorry, sport. If they are already in your house you are f*d! BTW an automatic pistol has more rounds and is much easier to use inside than an 18" barreled shotty.
You gotta love taking advice from a guy that has zero combat experience. I moved around houses in Iraq with my M4 which is the same length. He’s another guy trying to cash in on being an expert when he was a peace time marine.
I thought the same thing. There's nothing worse than an expert with no expertise in what they're specifically talking about and trying to still come across as an expert. He doesn't know what he's talking about, shotguns are the most idea home defense weapon, everything else requires hundreds of dollars worth of training.
Agreed. I cleared hallways with an 870 many times as a patrol officer. We had m16A2s, but sometimes the 870 was just better suited. Similar lengths. I took point in a fatal funnel with an 870 at an armed robbery. If you know how to maneuver correctly, shotguns are perfectly fine.
Shotguns dont run dry when you know how to run your weapon. Shoot one, load one Shoot two, load two You empty a shotgun in a hallway fight, no one is gonna be around at the other end when you go click, unless you picked a fight with the whole 1st division As to your whole house clearing thing, you should NEVER be going and clearing your house in a break in or home invasion! No matter your level of training! Lock the door, hunker down behind some heavy furniture, and wait in ambush for them to come to you. NEVER go to them
Thats somewhat of an advantage of firearms with tubular magazines. Even leverguns you can be pushing singles in. If you have a box fed gun and empty it the time to next round is actually pretty long because you need to do a complete reload. Granted not many people in a home invasion are clearing rooms and sweeping the floors with birdshot. Unless its an operator that comes in uninvited not too many people have the psychological fortitude to endure getting chased by high brass flashbangs inside a room.
@@EroticOnion23 my life is worth more than my things. If they wanna try to breach that door, they wont leave standing up. But no, you dont leave the Alamo in that situation
@@jordanhicks5131 well, for a lot of people their possessions is what keep them alive, uber drivers, craftsmen, etc. A slow death by starvation is still death.
@@EroticOnion23 that's a bullshit argument sir. There exists such a thing as renters insurance or homeowners insurance as well as car insurance. It's pretty affordable. And required in many places. Things will be replaced. Your life will not
Normally, I think you have good content, but I'm going to call you out on this. Nothing you said was explicitly wrong, but most of what you said is exaggerated. Training is a universal issue. A trained individual with a suboptimal weapon will perform better than an untrained individual with an optimal weapon. "Low capacity" is not an issue in home defense. The vast majority of self defense shootings are resolved in 5 rounds or less, the average being 2-3. My home defense 870 holds 7 rounds. (To be fair, my go to home defense gun is probably my handgun. If it gets THAT bad, I have an AR. The shotgun is if both me and my wife need something bigger than handguns.) Weapon length is a training issue. 18 inches vs 16 inches is negligible, if we want to compare apples to apples. Comparing your SBR with a suppressor to a 18" shotgun is not a fair comparison. You can get a tax stamp for an SBS too. I don't know what kind of a mansion you live in but 7 yards is a long shot in a home defense situation. 15 yards is all but unheard of. Shotguns DO take a while to reload....completely from empty. It takes about the same amount of time to drop a shell into the chamber as it does to reload a pistol. Yes, the pistol will have more shots after the reload, but if you have emptied a shotgun and there is still a threat, you probably shouldn't have picked a fight with the Hulk. I'm going to say it. PCCs are range toys and I'm tired of pretending they aren't. They have the defensive capacity of a handgun with the footprint of a rifle. Ammunition compatibility means jack shit if you don't use the same magazines. (I know, many use Glock mags, but yours does not.) If your PCC goes down, you aren't going to unload your PCC to load your handgun, you're going to just draw you already loaded handgun. If I have to go outside of my house to deal with a threat, I'm grabbing the AR. Before that, if the threat is outside of my house, it can stay there while I call the police. I'm not going outside unless I HAVE to in such a situation. They can come inside and meet me on my own terms. Nothing outside of my house is worth my life. I fear you are turning into IV8888, just another guntuber trying to get people to shop at their gun store.
Also want to point out he used spread as a con for shotguns because at distances you won't get all the buckshot on target, and then later mentions using a PCC because he's only concerned about short distances.
I mean technically they aren’t the most tactical. But they stop bears. Plus Ive personally seen a meth head get shot 7 times with a 9mm and be completely fine. A shotgun removes peices of meat. It’s a better man stopper
I agree for the most part, but there’s also a video of a big bear taking 3” 00 buck to the face and running away fine. Let me see if i can find the video.
There's also a video of an Italian woman hunting hogs who dumps 3-4 slugs into a hog's face and she needs to use the shotgun itself as a club to make it stop coming.
MAC is sometimes entertaining, often aggravating, and usually wrong. This vid checks all those boxes. At least the winger finally stopped wearing USMC patches on everything.
I completely agree! While I like him and appreciate his videos and effort, there always seems to be something he says or his tone that makes me roll my eyes.
what anti terror forces and swats use inside a building gives a good idea of what the best weapon is for the purpose. its mac`s alternative, the pistol caliber carbine ..and have been for many decades
Nothing beats a maverick 88 for a “Im heading out into the woods alone gun”. You can kill birds, deer, bear, moose, and even two legged threats. Plus a Mav 88 is 180$, you can beat it up!
I have won many sporting clays, trap and skeet games against others with thousands of dollars autos and over unders with my mavrick 88 it is the best in it's class and some
I'm glad that we can agree to disagree and still respect everyone's opinions. I disagree with most of the logic in this video. Pcc's are more expensive. Also pistol calibers especially 9mm are effective but I would trust one shot with a shotgun over one shot with 9mm which is all the time you might have. A pump shotgun is safer and easier to learn how to use and shoot than semi-auto pistols or semi- auto rifles. Any gun you are going to use for self-defense you need to train with. For example, even a revolver if you never train with it you are going to be in a lot of trouble if you have to use it. Same with a shotgun or any other gun. Shotguns are affordable and very common with ammo available at any store usually. Any caliber even 22lr will penetrate walls in your home so saying 12 gauge slings lead everywhere is kind of true of any caliber. Thanks for the video! I always enjoy watching them.
I agree, I enjoy civil discourse with people of differing opinions. I 100% disagree that pump shotguns are easier to teach someone how to effectively use. I've tried. Many times. First, when someone comes to me with a brand new 12ga they bought for home defense asking for some pointers, the first thing they discover is the violent recoil of a proper defensive round like 00 Buck. At that point I get into teaching them to pull the gun tight into their shoulder and trying to help them work through the fear of the recoil. That's how most of the instruction goes at first. New shooters almost never expect the recoil. So then they try #8 bird shot and they say, "That's much better I don't need those buck shot things". Now they're using bird shot and looking for light recoiling loads. One relative fired a handful of rounds and said they had enough, and sold their shotgun. With all of that being said, I only showed what I use based on my experiences and training. At no time do I say "you must do as I do". That, and there some affordable PCC's, not all of them are super expensive. Thanks for the post.
You can't short stroke a revolver. It happens to even highly trained users. While some issues can be mitigated by training (+ continuation of repetitions and range trips), it is still the most different to all sorts of other firearms handling and there are a lot more sources to mess up. Loading, unloading, malfunction clearing, recoil control, aiming depending on classic and fastest sights (the bead). Even if it's an all tricked out saiga 12. Reloads are fumbly, every magazine is quite heavy and they still tend to fail in 3 Gun often enough. I still like shotguns a lot for their versatility.
Repeating what onpsxmember wrote below because it needs to be said again... "You can't short stroke a revolver. It happens to even highly trained users." That is why a Pump Shotgun is often the Wrong Choice for HD.
Hey, if you use it and are proficient with it, you do you. No where in the video do I say "If you don't agree with me you're stupid". Sadly, that's what some people hear even when it's not said. Thanks for watching and being civil.
Your advice is certainly applicable to the untrained and we don't have that in South Africa, you have to do competency training and then apply for a license. Anyway I have an 870 and a 9mm with 21 rounds in it... Not only that I'm not going to do a house clearing with either firearm.
I totally agree. Here in South Africa, at least you have some form of training before you even purchase your FA. What I do not agree with thou is the house clearing. In South Africa and I am sure in the USA or most of the world, self defense implies that the threat was imminent and unavoidable. Clearing you home means that you went looking for the threat. Selfie defense does not cover possessions. Rather get your shotgun, cover the door, call the police, put on load speaker if you have to and shout out to the intruders that you have called the police. If they are still willing to come through your bedroom door after that then you have no alternative but to use your gun. I also believe in the ethos that your home should be setup in such a way that there is one assembly place if there is a home invasion and also that all bedrooms should have a line of defense maybe a burglar proof gate between the them and the living rooms. If perps still make it through that then they are fair game. I love all people and wish harm to nobody.
Living in a state where I can’t legally own ar pistols/short pcc’s or mags that hold over 10 rounds is why I choose a shotgun. I have a loaded pistol with 4 spare mags handy but also an 870 with 6+1 of 3” 00 buck, a side saddle with 6 more shells. 3 more 00 buck 3” and 3 1oz slugs. Tritium front sight and surefire for-end with built in light. Magpul stock so it shortens the gun a little bit, sling attachment so it’s attached to my body. Big dog to give me a heads up. If i lived in a freer state i would definitely pick a suppressed 45acp or 10mm pcc like a cmmg that takes glock mags and have a glock 40 or 41 paired with it. This is just what I have to deal with until we can change it here or I move.
Tim thanks for a a gutsy take on shotguns for home defense. Since I live in Calif. and am limited to 10 rounds, I have both a shotgun and a pistol. If I had an AR with 20 rounds that might be my preference. Your negatives you disclose in the video will help me train for better home defense engagement. Just got a Tavor TS 12 and now I feel more secure in my shotgun protection.
The weapon is less important than the tactics. If you live alone it’s not wise to go searching the house for the intruder. Take a defensive position and call 911. When the intruder comes to you address the threat from concealment. A shotgun is fine for this and quite lethal. And yes training to achieve proficiency is a must with all weapons.
Totally agree. When the blue state DA comes at you after the fact, having gone to cover and called 911 means you have a much better case than if you try room clearing. Secure your loved ones, call 911 , stay on the phone and should the zombies come then use your weapon to defend yourself. Your tv can be replaced. It’s cheaper than a defense attorney.
Arguing that a certain weapon platform is inferior without training is faulty logic because NO firearm is a safe or effective tool for a new untrained shooter. And there is also a lot more to successfully clearing a house than using a handgun. Without serious training in all facets problem solving with firearms, a family has the best chance of survival in a "self defense" situation by barricading themselves with a shotgun or carbine and letting criminals steal the TVs and beer while the LEOs respond. An 18"-20" barreled shotgun is just fine for a stationary position.
Seriously, this video is a joke. Mac: This bottom-o-the-barrel price Turkish shotgun, with absolutely no training sucks for home defense! Mac: This fully decked out pcc sbr with a suppressor and red dot, that I've spent hours upon hours spending time with is the ideal choice!
@@saihemebillings2820 Yea, but you can't rely on that being enough. Best be prepared to use it and not just rely on the sound of chambering a shell to do the work for you.
@@Saku19 I see this logic quite a bit on forums and reddit as well. People comparing cheap old shotguns that have been sitting in a dusty closet with their $2000-$3000 fully decked out weapon with scopes and dots/lasers that they spend a lot of time with. The fact that a cheap shotgun still gets the job done says a lot about how brilliantly simple and effective it is. That said, you should always train anyways. No need to be a liability to yourself or others.
Finally, someone saying it. A handgun is a far far better home defense gun than a shotgun.
Shotgun is a great hunting weapon, and is good for varmint defense outside a home, but I would never use one in the hallways or rooms of a home.
We agree which is cool. But I realize opinions will vary. What's funny is how hostile people get when you have a different opinion than they do... well, on the internet anyway. The internet never fails to entertain!
I’ll take a 20 gauge shotgun any day for combat. I was 12 when I killed my first deer 🦌 with my single shot break action 20 gauge with a 28 inch barrel with full choke. Used 3 inch 20 gauge Number 2 Buck. The insides of that deer 🦌 were ABSOLUTELY MUSH!!!!
@MilitaryArmsChannel, uhm my keltec ks7 would like to have a word with you
I disagree, expect return fire when the person you shoot doesn't go down because of your pistol caliber, even if you kill the intruder he might also injure or kill you when returning fire.
A shotgun will stop the person 100%.
Lack of proficiency with firearms is not an argument against shotguns in my opinion.
Grab someones barrel? Look what happened in Kenosha.
Also keep in mind that many people don't have to option to own sbr's or pcc's.
Agree to disagree.
@@DaveL9170 Hunting is not combat David, the deer doesn't usually shoot back at you :) But i get your point.
"Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people. Shotguns, at the right range with the right load, will physically remove a chunk of shit off of your opponent and throw that shit on the floor." - C. Smith
Someone that actually knows what they are talking about. Not a gun store owner.
Unless you opponent is wearing body armor. Aim for the head or groin with a shotgun.
shotguns are like revolvers, a lot of old timers with decades of experience and training swear by them. but are they right for you? they come from a time of conscriptions and drafts and general civic duty where people trained, hunted, went into the military and served abroad. is that you? if not, don't try to emulate their preferences.
@@cagneybillingsley2165 Bro, you can get great with a revolver in like 2 seconds. Use the thumb of your supporting hand to cock the hammer, and a single action is as fast as a semi auto with some dry fire and range practice. Reloading is a different story of course lol
👍👍👍👍👍Clint Smith!!!👍👍👍👍👍
I love that Paul Harrell's video titled "Shotguns don't suck for Home Defence" from 6 years ago is literally the first video off to the right in the related videos column.
Ultimately there are pros and cons to every type of firearm.
I'm glad to see how much it has grown in the last few years as he's reaching a larger audience. I like is no-BS and conjecture presentations.
he is not even on my page.
i got irag veteran all the 8s
I love MAC but Paul Harrell is right. Training is everything with any firearm.
I have personally seen a person shot with a shotgun, a regular old hunting shotgun at about 20 feet. The man didn't get up after the first shot to his chest, and he was hit with #4 buckshot. He had a pistol and was threatening my grandfather over a land dispute. When my grandfather saw him walking up to the truck with the pistol my grandad got out, pointed and pulled the trigger. I was watching the guy not realizing my grandad had got out of the truck. All I heard was a loud bang and the guy fell backwards. My grandad wasn't charged since it was a clear case of self defense. Don't be on the business end of a shotgun.
Agreed, don't be on the business end. When you hear that pump or see that barrel coming around the corner indoors, get ready to shoot the homeowner. If you're stealing a car and see a gun rack, shoot the driver first. Be sure to steal the shotgun.
If the homeowner/driver might have a pistol, run. You wont know and you'll never see it coming.
Or the fact that even if the bad guy were to move quickly when you pulled the trigger, a shotgun has the capability of severing a limb at close range rendering the bad guy laughably useless as he bleeds out in shock of seeing a stump.
Did this person live?
@@0Shane13 no. Papaw said he took a few shallow breaths and then died.
@wood0465 you know you don't have to wait until you're infront of someone before you pump it right? You also don't have Rambo rack it either.
As a street cop in one of the largest cities in America for 20 years in the 80s and 90s I always carried a 12 gauge shotgun and routinely deployed it to clear rooms, homes and buildings, sometimes several times a night. You raise the issue of going around corners with an 18 inch barrel. I’d love for you to explain the big difference between clearing around a corner with an 18 inch shotgun and a 16 or 18 inch semi-auto AR - the new weapon of choice. The concern is not the length of the barrel but rather how the operator approaches and maneuvers the firearm during the approach. It’s all about skill and not length - or so they say. 😅
Bingo
This is the Way!
@Mark-vx5xm Buckshot goes through drywall like butter.
When dealing with barrel length, you must also consider that an AR will most likely have a flash suppressor which will add around 1 1/2 inches to the barrel making the difference in barrel length practically negligible.
My uncle used Ithaca riot twelve gauge pump short barrel loved it and still owns it and his auto 5 old girl Browning his pops from 1940s He was a philadelphia cop detective in Kensington pa the bad lands 7os to the 90s . Said the right loads the shot gun is the best and better then one bullet coming at you . Good post . Also Paul h. Has a great video shot guns dont suck. Great post
If Paul Harrel says a shotgun (with the right ammo selection) is a good home defence weapon ... I believe him.
His demonstrations were great.
Well, thats a fair statement with a big name that supports it. Totally agree)
He's right but you also need to be proficient . Shotguns are harder to get good with but if a person is competent with them they are very good in my opinion.
For someone that has put in the time to get proficient with a shotgun I would agree. What the video is more addressing is the new to firearms folks that get a shotgun because someone told them to.
A sawed off shotgun
My dad was a sniper during the Korean War and earned a Bronze Star.
He had lots of guns, but his go-to for family defense was a .410.
Lighter and easier to handle. Far less recoil than a 12 gauge.
His reasoning was that he wasn't always home and the bad guys might target our home when it was just mom and us kids, and he wanted a gun that both he and mom could handle.
He was right.
My mom warded off three men trying to kick in our front door at 2 am (dad out of town) with a single shot from the .410.
Years later, I was a teenager and used that same .410 to scare off some men who were trying to steal some farm equipment (I was home alone while my parents were out in the fields for harvest). At that age, I weighed 129 pounds and couldn't easily handle a 12 gauge recoil. .410, no problem, and I practiced a lot with it.
That .410 has served your family well.
Damn dude I thought the country was supposed to be safer than the city
Had a coworker who also preferred the 410. Looked at one actually at MACs gunstore in Indiana, also looked at the supply of 410 and concluded that with push pull technique, I'd be better served with the more common 12 gauge. However, your dad had a good point in terms of his wife and kids.....
A pump 410 loaded with slugs or buckshot is a formidable weapon !
@@snipingwes He and his family were safe and not injured right!
The benefit of shotguns is it's versatility. Knowing how to use it as with any weapon is the key. Theres a saddle for every horse and an ass for every saddle.
There's the truth of it 👍
Wise words.
Versatility how? Do you breach a lot of doors? Do you use less lethal rounds for home defense?
@@225degrees And are city-dwellers really going to go hunt in a grid-down situation?
Imagine saying shotguns are versatile. Like how exactly? That doesn't make any sense.
I am both 11-B and swat qualified police officer that just retired after 35 years. I understand that every weapon has it's place but if I have a choice the shotgun is my first pick.
Same here. I’ve used them in a martial context and they are absolutely devastating IF you train with it and know how to use it. Semper Fi 👍🏻🤠
@@Monestary_Warrior I think that's mainly the point he was trying to make in the video. They're effective and absolutely devastating IF you have training and maintain said training. Unfortunately, the average home defender is not trained.
I have a Glock 35 with a light on my nightstand , but if I'm walking outside I'm also grabbing my Mossberg 590M to me the magazine fed 12 gauge is awesome
@@jameskellogg1162 Colt Border Patrol .357 Magnum and a Remington 870 12 gauge is my bedside setup. Simply because I am the most familiar and practiced with these two firearms.
Must be peacetime army. When I was in the Corps in Afghan and Iraq, our engagements were at 300m to 600m away. Our Terp was given a Benelli Shotgun and they would always be reloading. When rounds start flying from automatic fire the last thing you want is 6 rounds in the chamber even during MOUT in Ramadi or Fallujah.
Finally got a chance to view watch this video, and while I do agree with most of your points just feel a need to point a few things out.
1. There's large parts of the country where a SBR with a silencer is a no-go, and a shotgun becomes more desirable.
2. A decent pump shotgun loaded with basic 00 buckshot is waaaayyyyy cheaper than a carbine or most PCCs.
3. Unless you have a really good reason to(and a reason like "making sure your kids are safe" is a good reason), clearing your own house is a bad idea. And if you're just "hunkering down" in your bedroom, a shotgun pointed at the bedroom door is damn effective self defense tool.
4. A 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot is one of the few man portable firearms that has actual "stopping power", whatever you hit is likely not going to need a second shot. Even armor isn't going to fully protect someone at home defense distances unless it's rifle plates.
5. If you are involved in a home defense shotgun fight where you run the gun dry and have to reload, the entire gun community is going to be reading about you for years to come.
So while I admit that shotguns have definite limitations when it comes to self defense, they do have their place. They're a tool for the toolbox that isn't for every situation or every person, but they for sure have their uses.
Surprised this comment didn’t get way more 👍🏻
@@badtchad4935 me too honestly
I came here to say this exact thing. The Shotgun is artillery deployed from a fixed position (safe room/bedroom). If you have to leave the room then use a pistol to retrieve the kids or whatever and bring them into the bedroom then hunker down. Way too many people think they're gonna John Wick it and clear the house unscathed and it's a horrible idea. Of course call 911 as well
@@Paulio91184 They make side sapi plates and shields exactly for this reason. Room clearing is incredibly dangerous.
Great post! I'll just add that I think shotguns are the more effective tool for those who both 1. have no experience in combat (i.e., most of us), and 2. are less familiar with firearms. Between fear and the adrenaline rush (again, matched with inexperience), having a firearm which you need only vaguely point in the right direction, which has a dispersed field of impact (requiring little skill, especially compared to a handgun), and which makes a lot of likely disorienting noise (magnified indoors) in the process -- is probably the best option.
The best gun in the world is the gun on your hand when you need it.
And that's the biggest takeaway everyone should take from all the videos on guns to use for self defense.
Or maybe it’s the gun that the bad guy has in his hand???
Yea the fudd go to. Obviously dude. Any gun is better than no gun.
@@Flemdragon that's the point there is no bad gun for self defense. it's all about the person and what he or she can afford and train with.
So let’s stack the deck a bit so that the gun in our hand is the one we want when we need it, shall we.
You lost me when you said that shotguns are very specialized weapons. A shotgun is rather versatile tool, with various ammunition loads available to suit differing needs and environments.
he first said they were general use and could be used for fighting and for hunting, 30 seconds later he said they are specialized...... no the only specialized ones have rifled barrels and stuff.... normal shotguns are very general weapons, and you can use them for practically anything with the right load.
He lost me when he said I think! which means he doesn't know for sure but I know a few folks who used a shotgun in homedefense and they lived to tell the tale..lots of people get tagged with a pisol and didn't realize that they even got hit but not true with the shotgun because one minute your looking at the homeowner n the next your looking at your dead grandmother in a wheat field suronded by golden sunshine lol
Right? He calls a shotgun a "specialized" weapon, and then proposes a PCC????? No, that's not specialized at all, man. You can use a PCC for all kinds of things, like shooting people, and... uh... errrr... Did I mention shooting people?
@@evanwindom3265 PCC's are terrible. They're pistols for people who suck at shooting pistols. I can do literally everything any 9mm pcc can do with my CZ-75, and I can conceal carry that......
A shotgun's biggest strengths are versatility and effectiveness.
I mean, if shotguns were used successfully and effectively in trench warefare (close quarters) wouldn’t that prove their worth in home defense?
I would think. Pretty tight quarters in a trench. Good point.
All it comes down to is being aware of your surroundings and using the right ammo in certain situation.. just be mindful of over pentration
Yes it would. Going through the house and around corners wit a long gun alone is a good way to get hurt. Set up and ambush the morally depraved.
Great point.
@@bobgordon1754 Unless someone has training they have no idea how to clear a house. The thing to do is call the police and set up in a dark corner and wait for them to come to you. In which case a shotgun would be great.
If you need to reload a shotgun in a home defense situation, you have already failed on multiple counts.
If you miss 6 or 8 times with a shot gun you not going to make a hit with a hand gun.
Just grab the next loaded gun if you run out of ammo, reloading is for people who only have one gun lol
@@curttolley3829 This. If you can't even hit a target with a long gun that has a good sighting radius, several points of stabilization, and multiple projectiles a shot, it will be a miracle for you to hit a target with a gun that has poor sighting radius, one point of stabilization, and one projectile a shot.
@@MinuteBracelet Spray and pray time with the 50 round glock drum mag lol
@@MinuteBracelet Agree 100%, for a while there back in the day going with friends to the range-pistols/ all my friends that shoot "once in a blue moon" couldn't hit the brod side of a barn, at 20 yrds, and myself for the first 20 min( before warming up). Then i bust out the shottie, "everyone" had fun and could get a few pelets on target. My experiences complete opposite of what is being said in this vid. I might add my shottie is as short as "legally possible'/in my state, never the less will always be my go to. To each his own i guess, -Cheers
Clearly this man has never seen Paul Harrel's "Shotguns don't suck for home defense"
Or maybe he has, and he's trolling for views. 😉
I"ll roll with Paul on this one.
@@MAILER-DAEMON I don't agree either, but you response is in the BOZO catagory. Maybe next time try a mature discussion on disagreement.
I, for one, am glad you won't be back to futher comment.
Just went and watched that video. Thanks for mentioning it
@@rickc7151 You're welcome
It isn’t the shotgun that sucks, it’s the untrained owners that suck, just like all other firearms.
Agreed.
@@ramonandrajo6348 Aman!
Too long and unwieldy with limited ammo capacity? Use a compact bullpup shotgun (Keltec) with dual mag tubes. Don't want to sling lead all over your house? Use slugs. I don't see a problem here.
@@Key5ser5oze But wouldn't a slug go through walls with the risk of injuring or killing somebody else?
Yes and no. A trained shotgun user will definitely be vastly better off than an untrained one, but anything involving guns is about considering trade-offs. A shotgun is obviously better than no gun at all, but you aren’t maximizing your potential lethality by using one. Choosing a gun that is better suited for the task you’re using it for is just giving you more advantages.
I couldn't disagree more. The humble shotgun is the most versatile weapon available. ALL game can be taken, and for home defense, its king. From light quail loads, to the most advanced long range sabot slugs, the selection of rounds is almost endless. If I could only have one gun, it would be a 12g pump.
The best weapon is the one you can use. Shotgun has a TON of power, no debating that. I think it's a little less than ideal in home defense just for limited capacity (in most cases) slower loading times, and potential recoil.
That being said, if you gave me the option between a pistol and a shotgun, especially a kitted out shotgun? I'd take the shotgun any way of the week. I just think that comparing to the shotgun it looses out to PCCs and your standard intermediate cartridge rifles.
Absolutely correct, well said.
The dude should've titled this video "Why a shotgun is a bad weapon when you don't train with it".
Let's just put this here.
- I own a musket for home defense since that's what the Founding Fathers intended.
- Four ruffians break into my house.
- "What the Devil," as I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky Rifle.
- Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man. He's dead on the spot.
- Draw my pistol on the second man. Misses him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbor's dog.
- I have to resort to the cannon at the top of the stairs loaded with grapeshot.
- "Tally ho, lads." The grapeshot shreds two men in the blast. The sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms.
- Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.
- He bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are difficult to stitch up.
- Just as the Founding Fathers intended.
You forgot the waving flag above your head as old glory leads the way! Tally Ho!! HAHHAHAHAA
I'm dead.
I can't tell you how many times I've read that but I've laughed every single time
This CopyPasta is one of the best lmao.
hahahaaaaaa
The shotgun is an excellent choice for many. Especially when money is an issue. It’s reliable, effective, simple to operate and affordable.
unless your talking bout the Benelli M4 or the Baretta 1301 lol
@@terryspalding3765 Right, but I would bet those are still way cheaper than that double stamp suppressed SBR he shows off at the end.
Also for large people who manage the length and recoil well
And u dont need to be a expert marksman
@@armandogavilan1815 you still have to ask with a shotgun, it only spread 1 inch per yard
There always pros and cons to each system, but I would never say it "sucks" for home defense.
@Jose Vasquez you still have to sip a shotgun spread isn’t as big as you think.
@Jose Vasquez a gun is a gun I wouldn’t wanna be shot by any gun both can kill you both have to be aimed
it’s like a friend once said “ if i shoot someone in the neck with a pistol he’ll have a hole in his neck, if i use a shotgun with buckshot the guy will be missing part of his lower jawbone”
@@nathan-ls8yw either way probably wouldn’t survive
@@levim7462 true
You cant argue the devastating terminal ballistics of the ol 12 gauge, though. A true fight stopper in the right hands.
Yeah but just because its devastating doesn't mean other rounds won't also kill someone with one shot, shoot a block of gel with a 50 yeah it does alot of damage but I'm not going to lug a clunky heavy barrett around my house, what matters more than raw damage is shot placement, how fast you can get lead downrange, and how fast you can reload, all things that are easier on a rifle platform
That’s not what he said. Clearly a shotgun blast ruins someone’s day. But he correctly states it can be unwieldy, low ammo capacity, and hard to reload in a hurry.
If you only get 1 shot then what does it matter? Most gun fights are just a few shots in less than a few seconds from less than a few yards.
@Jose Vasquez you're more likely to land a shot with pretty much any alternative platform, nuff said, I think you underestimate how difficult it can be to land a shot when it's dark, you're stressed, and you're disoriented, and all the training you could put into overcoming the shortcomings of a shotgun you could be vastly more effective with a semi auto pistol or rifle, there is a reason no serious military uses shotguns for anything more than breaching a door.
@Jose Vasquez if you're preparing to only be able to handle the average gunfight maybe you shouldn't be preparing at all, the average person never had a home invasion let alone one where they are home
You lost me at "walking through a house looking for the bad guy". That is the best way to get killed. Never ever clear a house alone it takes a lot of training to clear a house which most do not have! Get to your safe place with your family, call the police and let the bad guy come to you.
I agree. There are only a few gun channels that I watch which promote having a 'safe room'. Many more think everyone is Jocko Willink clearing houses in Iraq.
I had to “clear the house” once. I’ll admit, I was really on edge I’d say on the verge of being afraid. I felt it was necessary to do at the time as I have family on all 3 levels of the house and had to get to all of them one by one.
@@JackAustin613 nice to see people comment on actual reality. thumbs up
Alsoooo get a LVL 3 SHIELD. It’s more important than any and everything other than your stick.
I disagree. When should you clear your own home? When you heard a noise and want to check it out. When should you not clear your home? When you know a man is in your house. Those are very different scenarios
If you're seeking out a threat presumed to be in your house by clearing corners and rooms by yourself ... you have already failed. You can't cover multiple angles by yourself and you have at least a 50/50 chance of choosing the wrong angle to enter at and get blindsided by whatever threat you're seeking out.
Find a choke point and let the threat come to you.
This, there is a reason when police have to clear a building they come in force
@@sanjosesharkrock and they have shields, body armor etc. There is no foolproof way to do it.
Many people have children who's bedrooms are on the other side of the house, or on another floor. That's a 100% legitimate reason why you may need to clear your home, or at very minimum clear a portion/path to your other loved ones. People who make absolute declarative statements about what people should or shouldn't do in dangerous/tactical situations aren't thinking enough about all the variables that exist for other people's particular situations. Not everyone has the luxury of just barring the door and hunkering down until law enforcement arrives.
@@heathwasson7811yeah but most people do and this should act accordingly
Great point! Anyone without a plan to defend their family at a choke point is very likely to be a danger to everyone. Clearing the house is very foolish.
Is a shotgun my go to for home defense? No. If, for whatever reason, I only had my 870 or M4 on hand would I feel comfortable? Yes.
Yea, though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil. For my 870 and my 1911, they comfort me.
@@kbjerke though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil. For my 1100 and my 1911, they comfort me.
Should we meet in hell let it be with a grin on the face and a great story on the tongue.
@@kbjerke Jesus Christ how old are you?
@@mcyg123 lol
You know, Paul Harrell says shotguns don't suck for home defense and I believe him. By the way, he used to be a firearms instructor on active military duty.
There seems to be a bigger issue with ignorance about shotguns than shotguns themselves. Like any gun, knowledge required.
What I recently learned is that in firearms engagements, 12 gauge is king as far as win% and fewest shots fired. statistically. source needed but I think it stands to reason.
@@paveclaw3865 the wound on most shotgun wounds aren't really a gunshot wound. Its usally just a large chunk of flesh thats been blown off... remember a 12gauge = 701. Caliber. Think of a cal 50bmg... now thing of a 70 cal. Thats what a 12gauge hole is
@@jonnhyappleseed7498 if all of the 00 buck pellets hit the same spot, then yeah, it's fuckin carnage.
I have successfully defended my life with a shotgun from a hostage situation. Literally. That said I would have preferred an AR. I still think it’s absurd to dismiss a shotgun outright though.
please share this story in more detail if you have a chance. Always great to hear real life experiences.
@@jclaxton78 ditto
The shotgun is an awesome firearm but like with every tool you must be proficient in it's use. If you can plan and practice your home defense plan till you know it like it is second nature you will be well armed with a shotgun as long as the firearm will shoot reliably every time you squeeze the trigger.
@@mrpete2405 I think a fair argument could be made that, even though you're right and you must be proficient with your tools, it's easier to be proficient with a shotgun than a handgun for example.
@@CVMN-kf2qc yes I've been a handgun owner since the 70s and became a firearms instructor in 93. My last trip to the range was last Sunday so I feel pretty comfortable with handguns. The way my house is laid out it would be hard to get to the rooms if I am parked in the cubby hole in the hallway with a shotgun either.
Good lord, I disagree so much with some of the arguments here. New shooters aren't going to understand how to clear buildings with any length gun. Shotguns are fine for hunkering down while someone is on the phone with the police. If you have to reload a shotgun, that basically means you missed 5+ times with a shoulder fired weapon at distances less than 10 yards and that there are still people attacking you after your fired at them 5+ times. If this is the case for you, then you've faltered in many other aspects of life outside of your shooting ability and equipment. People don't tend to fold after being shot with handguns the way they do after being shot with shotguns. The list goes on. Shotguns are fine home defense firearms. The one major argument against them is their more complicated manual of arms in comparison to handguns and most carbines one might consider for this application.
My thoughts exactly I was looking for this comment. He is looking at it from a tactical POV. Criminals are looking for victims not resistance. When the shooting starts they are leaving as fast as they can, they aren’t gonna stay and fight. I tell my wife put that 00 buck center mass when they silhouette in the bedroom door if they make it past the dog.
This!
Also, depending on what state you live in, you might be put in front of a jury to determine if it was self defense.
Not having a picture of a "scary looking" gun showed to the jury can be the difference between walking out of that room as a free man or going to jail.
As shitty of an argument this is to people who own guns, it's real life. Shotguns aren't scary. An AR pistol eith red dot and a flashlight is scary to these mindless drones
IMO shotguns are not complicated and easier to learn. Rifles for most urban and suburban areas too risky to innocent neighbors. Country folk, take your pick.
In a home defense situation, you won't need to worry about reloading a shotgun unless it's a single shot. One hit from a load of 00 is more devastating than 2 or 3 rounds from almost any pistol or small bore rifle. Even with training in high stress situations most people can't hit squat with a pistol. I have pistols, rifles, and shotguns, in close quarters I'll take the trench sweeper every time.
agree
I agree 100%. Everyone acts like it’s going to be an action movie. And it’s not. Most people will have a fully loaded shotgun with one in the chamber. A lot of assumptions about incompetency had to be made for the argument “shotguns suck” to work
"Oh, the homeowner is awake and armed with a shotgun. Yes, I WANT to keep going!" - - No Criminal Ever
You are giving criminals to much credit.
You could have seen on TV the riot iedoits running toward a ar.
Now add a bunch of meth,crack,or even just beer. And you have unpredictable stupid people.
Now it's 5 or 6 criminals so they might
Plenty of criminals stick around.
I was the criminal in a case involving a homeowner who had awoken and racked a shotgun saying out loud “I have a gun” I won’t go to into detail but I had a person with me during the event and both of us gtfo I have been arrested and already done my time for the crimes I’m mentioning and I am fully reformed I will never go down that very dumb road again
@opisex well the way I see it: any slide/pump rack sound is gonna be scary. But when you, hear it, it's too late to run away. So you have no choice but to fight.
Now you no longer have a criminal who wants your TV, you have a person fighting tooth and bloody nail for their life
To clear a house or property not a good choice with little to no training. To take a tactical position behind a closed door behind a bed calling 911 and waiting for authorities, a pump shotgun with 00 buck is hard to beat. Remember not everyone is going to go looking for the intruder, and for some people that is the right choice. For those a defensive position with a reliable pump shotgun loaded with 00 buck, if the bad person comes through the door you have the ability to put back out the door. If you miss and a 8 inch section of the door disappears, most will be assholes and elbows getting out of there and that is a win also.
#1 buck is better. #1 has .30 cal pellets in it, and you can find shells that hold 30 of those .30 cal pellets.
@@michaelmurdock6005 It's a shame that 00 is so over hyped. It makes #1 much harder to find and when you do there aren't nearly the number and kinds of defensives loads like there are for 00.
No, do not use 00 buck for home defense especially if you live in a multi family complex. Use #4 Buckshot. The absolute largest I would take it is #1 buckshot like the other gentlemen here are saying but even that is a risk.
00 buck is more of an overt combat round, more suitable to fighting out doors and extending your range and lethality at distance.
Tim, you may be right if you are home alone, but if you have children and/or other family members, you may need to clear the home. I think a pistol is better in that case. I have an FNX Tactical .45 with silencer, light and red dot. My go to home defence gun. Hard to beat 15 rounds of .45.
Clint Smith: “use a damn shotgun with buckshot, screw pistol caliber carbines”
MAC: “this pcc is by my bed”
Clint: **blood pressure increases
@Adam pulls trigger once on shotgun, spends month cleaning entrails out of carpet and replacing drywall.
Pulls trigger once on pistol caliber, hears strung out drug addict laugh.
Bahahhahahaaa yep
Have to disagree with you on this one. All of your arguments are bases on training and money... $300 for a shotgun, $3000.00 for your suppressed B&T
This should have been called, "get training!"
Because arguing that someone would not know how to pump their pump shotgun is a bit silly. This is the same argument that someone with a semi auto pistol would not know how to rack the slide after inserting a magazine.
The only legitimate argument is the over all size.
But let's face it... if yiu are untrained, you should not be running around your house or out in your yard... you should be barricaded in your room and on the phone with 911
Haha, Clint is a national treasure.
@Adam I agree. Use what you're comfortable with. Clint hates PCC's in general, he goes either handgun or rifle. I understand his thinking and I have nothing but respect for him.
Put a security bar under your doorknobs on entry/exit doors. These bars will not stop a determined intruder, but the extra noise created will give you time to wake up from a deep sleep and time to grab your self-defense weapon. The extra seconds or minutes may make the difference.
I think its funny when people live an a sketchy place or just want to feel safe wherever, will shell out so much cash for the latest and greatest bang stick, but not spend the 40 bucks in off the shelf and DIY methods to prevent break ins. The security bar you mentioned in its various forms, anti kick plates that sit along the door jam screwed into the studs with 4 in screws or if they have enough cash, security bars on windows and metal screen doors. The cost up front is a lot but it pays itself off for the next 30 years. Ive got my bang sticks but before bed and before I leave the house i make sure everything is locked up tight.
I respectfully disagree and think a shotgun is one of the most underrated and versatile weapons you can own.
Also, stirring the pot is exactly why you titled and posted the video.
Absolutely true, he knew what he was doing with the video title. Not admitting it is a bit frustrating
@Graf von Losinj this is all a weird argument. If you have a shotgun then you automatically have self defense. Who gives a crap what is better at that point. Playing the woulda coulda shoulda game isn’t really necessary. Options is what anyone wants but to kinda bash a shotgun is a weird take
I'll take a shotgun everytime
Is a shotgun the best for everyone? Probably not since every home is laid out differently and certain firearms may not be safe in your home. A shotgun would be safe in my home since the rooms that I would be protecting are behind me and to one side so if you are shooting at me and miss the shots do not go into the bedrooms and any shooting I do would be toward the entrance walls that are wallboard with a concrete wall behind it and the closest home in that direction is roughly 300 feet (100 yards) after the shots go through the concrete wall.
I completely agree, a 12 gauge is a great firearm and with proper training way more effective than a pistol. Of course everyone has there own opinion.
This is a very opinionated video with not much of a shotguns full potential being applied here. Ehhh.
Yea... Wick like shotgun training be the most best deal or training whatsoever.
@@Kinkkis Well what bugs me the most here is that he's purposely lagging with those reloads. A side saddle shotshell holder with some reload reps will clear that up easy. Wants it to look bad then chooses a piss poor caliber as a primary. Yeah no.
The sheer power coming out of a shotgun is undeniable. Some firearms may be smaller or more ergonomic but, you get hit with a shotty inside a house you’re fried
Agreed. Especially if you start choking down the pattern. 00 Buck out of a full choke?! (Yes, you can do that.) Lights out for the bad guy.
@@democratsuck tbf at CQB distances you really don't even need to choke down a shotgun.
That doesn't matter if you MISS. Look at Kyle Rittenhouse. He said he attempted to buy a shotgun instead but they were sold out. Thank God for that AR or I have no doubt he'd be dead.
That report jars you a lot more than you might realize. Firing a shotgun inside your sense of what's going on around you gets obliterated.
@@col.cottonhill6655 Get facts right. Kyle Rittenhouse could not buy a shotgun or rifle because he was 17 at the time. He told police and the media that he gave money to his friend Dominick Black to buy the AR for him. That's a straw purchase and federal offense (felony) and both Rittenhouse and Black can be charged. His friend was charged. They both knew he was underage and that he couldn't possess the rifle and he admitted to police and media that it was a straw purchase.
People do this with shotguns all the time and it drives me nuts… they say shotguns suck and then as justification for that statement they point to a bunch of dumb shotgun myths that are going around, like the sound of it being racked. Yes, that’s a myth. But how does the existence of that myth help your argument that shotguns aren’t good for home defense?
They don’t suck but rifles are better . Both out class pistols by a mile .
@@Dcm193 Rifles have a shorter learning curve for sure. But if you put in the time to learn how to run a shotgun I’d say they’re every bit as effective as a rifle for HD.
@@GringoFusilero I mean ballistically rifles win and still it takes a shit load of practices I get good at running a shot gun manly the loading . Shot guns in my opinion should always run a variant of buckshot. Never slugs because you get a lot of recoil with less damage than a 308
In regards to the 'ka-chunk' situation; In 2007 when I was living in a slumlord apartment, my neighbour was drunk with 3 of his friends. They found out that I'm a musician and have expensive gear so they came knocking. They yelled at me through the door saying, "LET US IN OTHERWISE WE'RE GONNA KILL YOU." I had a flimsy door and one giant window. I got on the ground near my door (but not in front of it) and racked it after giving verbal commands. The next thing I hear is very uncoordinated footsteps running down the stairs. Never did I have problems with George or his friends ever again.
I am very practiced with my gas and pump guns and feel very confident in my use of them. However, I also have a light enabled handgun in the safe right next to my pump gun. I shoot shotguns so much better than I do with handguns so I always gravitate towards them but handguns are an overall better option for close quarters. It is difficult to beat the versatility of a good shotgun in the hands of a trained gunner.
Mossberg 590 shockwave beats any handgun in close quarters.
This is very similar to what happened to a friend of mine and why I keep an AK in a closet with a loaded mag and empty chamber.
The sound of a gun being racked is completely stupid and very reckless if someone is already inside your house but can be a great deterrent to anyone who is still outside and is trying to get in!!
I keep a loaded gun (handgun) by my bed ready to go and that AK in the closet by the front door
Before even watching, I am going to guess:
-Lower ammo capacity
-Possible collateral damage the further out you shoot
-limited range. A rifle round is general purpose from bad breathe out to hundreds of yards. Shotguns have to use slugs to get that extended range, but they are known to be devastating with buckshot
-slow fire rate
-atrocious reload times compared to a 30 round magazine
But buckshot always has a place in my heart
Personally for you own safety I’d prefer it to be in the heart of the bad guy
-GCA1968 mandated the external disconnect button on pump shotguns nearly got my Aunt killed in 1969. She traded it for a Plainfield M-1 carbine that has never jammed and guards her family to this day.
My first thoughts were recoil and noise.
Sorry MAC, I'm gonna stick with Paul Harrel this time. In this difficult time, not all the people have stocks of guns and ammo like the community do, so they may have to use what they got. In my opinion, we should be familiar with what guns or even tools we have, even a single barrel shotgun. For shotgun users, the first training in my opinion is to keep the gun point at target while loading, not the fast reloading we use in compitiation, same as other weapons. If a user doesn't really have time and doesn't want to know his/her tools, he/she will become dead meat in the scenario.
With a shotgun against a single opponent no reload should be needed. You should be able to hold the idiot up and see daylight on the other side.
People kill people. A firearm is only a tool. If a man is trained up and familiar with his equipment he will do well. A untrained man or woman with a two thousand dollar firearm will get beat by a trained and motivated man or woman armed only with a stick.
He isn't saying you should go out and buy a pcc or rifle he is talking about if you had to choose a weapon for home defense what would be best or if you recommended a gun for home defense whats the best, if I went out specifically to get a gun for home defense a shotgun would be the worst option
@@Banefulailment Shotguns are very popular with cheapskates who just want a cheap gun and a $300 pump action shotgun seems excellent "bang for your buck". They aren't seriously considering ammunition costs as they're not going to practice with this weapon. Even if they did they'd buy the cheapest ammo - birdshot - and really have no way of knowing how well they're shooting, did all the pellets hit or did barely a few hit? The only thing they'll be learning to do is to flinch from the recoil, that flinch will get worse if they ever try to shoot under stress or from a difficult position.
@@Treblaine At any distance you would shoot a home invader bird shot will do the job quite well. Most shotguns are patterned at 30 yards. Are there any rooms in your home that are 90 feet across? There is no question which is the better self defense weapon. I'll take the shotgun every time. Point and shoot over aim and shoot.
Maverick 88 for 250$ is literally the best price for home defense, amazing shotgun
Absolutely!!!👍👍
100% agree. Great value, great firearm, and absolutely effective.
MAC this is one of the FEW times I have to respectfully disagree. I teach a weapons package to Navy warfighters at Little Creek and have come to understand the advantages and disadvantages of a shotgun for individual home defense.
1. Per the FBI uniform crime stats, required 2nd shot follow ups are almost non existent with 12ga 00 buck. Thats data over the last 30+ years.
2. 9 .30 cal projectiles per pull of the trigger. (Try explaining 9 pistol holes on your threat to the DA or Jury when it goes to court, and it will).
3. Shotgun dispersion at distances inside of a standard home dwelling is negligible (YMMV know thy weapon and ammo). At CQB distance you can almost use it like a rifle.
4. Engagements beyond 25 meters with a shotgun (or any weapon) is pushing the limits of legally plausible to a Jury in most cases. Some exceptions apply.
5. Knowing your dwelling and construction one can select what loads are appropriate to prevent over penetration of drywall while still maintaining lethality across a standard bedroom.
6. If the operator is too stupid to use a shotgun under duress they are likely too stupid to place rifle or pisol rounds inside a threats thoracic cavity effectively while under duress.
7. Inside apartments and condos a rifle bullet may buy you more jail time for collateral injury than a shotgun.
8. Every round fired has an attorney attached to it. Period! Explaining to a court that you only pulled the trigger ONCE or at most twice is much easier than why you pulled the trigger 3, 5 , or 16 times. Two 00 Buck balls rounds inside a thoracic cavity at toom distance will put 18. .30 caliber balls on target In under 2 seconds. Thats a much more palitable explanation to a jury than a mag dump and “I shot till the threat was reduced”.
9. No argument on the 18” length aside from “train with what you have”. Shotguns are accessible to almost any non felon anywhere in the USA and even the communist controlled areas.
That’s all I’ve got brother. Keep up the killer channel!!!
Best explanation I've seen. My dad was a cop for 30 years, a 12 gauge loaded up with buckshot is a devastating home defense weapon especially in low light where your aim could be compromised
solid points except for the over penetration part. The shotgun will most likely go through more walls than say a 5.56 round. 5.56 will fragment faster and loose velocity faster. Buckshot will keep going and if it hits a person will be more deadly.
Unfortunately a lot of the arguments against shotguns for HD are disingenuous. The threat against the 2A has pushed a lot of the gun community to make arguments that the AR-15 and variants is some god-gun with respect to HD. Bottom line is the 12G shotgun with buckshot is still the most efficient way to stop an attacker with a single trigger pull. And modern reliable shotguns make the argument even more solid. It remains the best weapon for SD when the number of attackers is relatively small and magazine capacity is not an issue.
It requires more thought, thus not the best. The issue isn't the weapon, it's the user. Too many people forget homes aren't battlefields, legally.
@@blacktoastmcbiscut8650 in Texas they are
While I agree to an extent about the length of a shotgun and inexperience clearing CQ situations. Pistols are not all they're said to be in close quarters either. With your arms extended in a shooting position a shotgun is really only about 4-5 inches long than a pistol. And a pistols anemic energy on target, louder sound disrupting the shooter, and difficulty to shoot compared to a long gun doesn't bode well for untrained shooters either. A 12 gauge with #1 buckshot is one of the best one shot man stoppers available.
I agree
Lighting isn’t always going to be on your side of advantage which puts the user with the pistol at a more disadvantage where using a 12ga even with bird shot you just need to graze the intruders enough to shock him which would give you even more opportunity to eliminate the treat on the 2 shot. If you need to use an entire tube/Mag of ammo then you need more practice with your weapons!
@@TheMitchapalooza69 NEVER use birdshot in your home defense weapon. If you have to use your weapon for lethal force use a round that can deliver the most lethal dose possible. For 12 gauges #1 buckshot is the smallest size that still gets 12"+ in ballistics gel and delivers more wounds than 00 buckshot will.
@@rileyneufeld7001 I don’t personally use birdshot was just using the spread pattern as just an example
@@TheMitchapalooza69 If anything buckshot will spread more due to the lack of wadding on most standard buckshot.
I use #1 buck after testing different loads. My shotgun makes a fist size pattern at 10 yards with the Winchester brand. Love it.
Dad used to take us out shooting hand trap. He kept it fast paced. You learned how to load and top off a shotgun quick! Later, when the dove and ducks were flying good, it came in handy. It’s training based and a perishable skill.
My. 870 is 32 yrs old got it brand new used it for hunting now converted to a self defense . Never had a problem with it love that 870
I'm with Paul Harrell on this one.
Same
Since most home defence altercations take place at 5 to 10 yards, either a handgun, or a shotgun is ideal. A load of double ought from either a 12 gauge, or 20 gauge shotgun at less than ten yards is devastating. Nine pellets of 30 caliber fired at one time, as opposed to firing a handgun nine times for the same effect. That's why shotguns don't suck for home defence.
00 buck is actually 36 caliber...
What, are you using a .32ACP pistol loaded with FMJ? A 9mm bullet reliably expands to about .60 which is quadruple the frontal area of a .30 caliber pellet so 1 shotgun shell is about the equivalent of 2 pistol bullets for the same effect. 9mm pistol typically has twice the capacity and you could easily fire it twice as fast, but a handgun is far easier to keep closer by you when sleeping in a small safe or even permanently carry it on you everywhere you go in your house. And it's way harder to take a handgun from someone than a long arm.
Not that a handgun is ideal, like a shotgun it's not easy to shoot quickly and accurately, you need to spend a lot of time and money (on ammo) training with it to become competent. But the compromises of a handgun make sense for a much smaller package.
Number of shots fired can be a major factor between self-defense and murder charge in court also.
@@steveshep100 There's just been too many trials where people were accused of murder from firing even a single shot.
And there's been cases where people shot loads of times and it never went to trial.
Really, other circumstances count far more like whether who was armed, who was the instigator, and the trial seems to turn on almost every minutiae.
A handgun sucks for home defense. The amount of gun fights that end in both defender and attacker both being shot when both are armed with pistols are just too high. You're not trying to trade shots, you're trying to incapacitate the intruder before he knows what hit him. For me, a rifle( or sbr) in rifle calibers or a shotgun is my minimum for home defense. A pistol is a compromise that should only be used for mobility. When mobility isn't a issue, grab something else.
You've lost your mind. If they're not getting trained with a shotgun then they Shure as hell won't train with a pistol. That and the idea of stealthy stalking an intruder is pure fantasy. You can train anyone to have a high hit probably at indoor distances with a long gun in far less rounds then with a pistol. And the shotgun with a proper loading is absolutely devastating.
Yup, totally ridiculous.
This guy has delusions of grandeur.
If an intruder is hell bent on doing you harm (as opposed to trying to steal your stuff), and if he is skilled enough to gain entry into your house while also clumsy enough to wake you up... he knows where you are.
Anyone can "say" they are armed... but a shotgun rack doesn't lie.
Are you really trying to lay ambush for the intruder in your house rather than scare him off without putting your life in further jeopardy?
1000% agree. Pistol marksmanship requires much more practice than shotgun. Run 100 rounds through your shotgun and you can defend yourself with it pretty well 100 rounds of pistol training is barely starting.
@@drebk lol there's no real case where racking a shotgun has scared off an intruder
@@ronaldwhitman1377 I'm sure you're wrong...
you said shure lol
At the end of the day we are discussing the most effective way to blow holes in bad guys. I believe the shotgun is the best overall for home defense. Most people can afford one, they are simple to use and clean and need minimal training to get familiar with one.
4 men broke in to my house and made it half way up the stairs. 2 rounds fired, 4 men down. Depends on your defensive setup.
Damn, Nice shooting! What was your setup?
That must've been on the news, got an article?
4 armed or unarmed intruders??
@@videogazer801 doesn't matter.. your house your rules
@@hughjanus1710 it shouldn’t, but to the judge it will matter
This channel is amazing, and I respect your opinion. But I believe a 12 gauge “House howitzer” is the 🐐 when it comes to home defense
A 20 ga is pretty decent too. 20 pellets of 25-caliber buckshot will give any felon pause.
@@oddish4352 try 12 gauge 00 buck moving at like 1300 ft per sec. :)
@@ryze9153 Very effective, if I want to kill a bear, or a human 50 yards away, or two humans one behind the other. For engaging single humans at self defense distances, a lighter load will work.
I was told by many different military people as well as gun instructors that shot guns are one of the best home defense weapons. I feel like we're going back in time with this video
..yeah, Tim’s just WRONG..THIS time.
MAC is a retired USMC officer…
@@zackalbanese4589 he's still wrong this time.
@@zackalbanese4589 who cares? You’d think he’d know better.
No they don't, they say an AR15 or some other semi-auto rifle is the best. What they say is that the shotgun is one of the most powerful which is very different from saying it's even one of the best. We're talking about replicating ballistics of a 17th century musket here, and the ammunition is huge, a box magazine that holds only 5 rounds of 12 gauge is the same size as a magazine that holds 30 rounds of 5.56mm which hugely limits capacity.
There is a difference between saying that the shotgun is the best choice for defending your home and saying that if you're going to use a shotgun AT ALL it's best used in home defense. Those are two different things. There are such big problems with a shotgun that you NEED the "home advantage" of only using it within your own residence.
Myself being a former Army Ranger I personally think a shotgun is the best home defense and tactical weapon . First off with any weapon you need the right one. In my opinion the benelli m4 is an outstanding home defense shotgun they very reliable and with 00 buck shot all you need to do is point the weapon at the intruder amd fire no matter where you hit the intruder he will go down , hit him in the arm his arm will be laying on your floor. One shot one kill if you hit him in chest. Federal tactical flight control 00 buck shots are nice shells woth low recoil. The mossberg 590A1 and Beretta 1301 are two other very good shotgun home defense that are very reliable. You want a weapon that will fire when you need it the most. A shotgun has a wider spread pattern than a pistol. If you do decide to use a hand gun as a home defense weapon then I would recommend something with low recoil for accuracy like a 9mm or smaller. Especially if your a female. But a 12 Guage shotgun is the best in my opinion but everyone has there own opinions. If you buy a cheap shotgun or handgun you get what you pay for you will most likely have jamming issues which you don't want when someone breaks into your home at 2 am . Don't be cheap your life depends on it, buy a good brand weather it be a shotgun or handgun. I personally have a benelli m4 with red dot and tactical push button light mounted to picanny rail with 7 rounds , 8 rounds if I ghost load a shell. I have had my benelli in mud, water, dropped it off a 15 foot cliff only thing that broke on it was the light mounted on the rail it fired perfectly as of now I have fired over 3000 rounds and never had a jam I clean it every time I fire it. Which is very important.
Alright, sorry as a combat vet that carried a shotgun in the mix and carried it slung except for use on doors and 4 legged problems, I still call shenanigans. All gripes are training related, easily overcome in a few hours of instruction- even amateurs' instruction-and then some practice. And MAC's answer is basically a civilianized SMG? With a can?
They're all tools. Giving untrained people rifles, PCCs/SMGs or Glocks is not going to lessen such structural issues or negligent discharges, and the shotgun has the fringe benefit of less lethal range to terrorize bystanders for that inevitable tunnel vision.
Its a matter of choice but what ever you use get training with said firearm and practice practice practice. If Tim wants to use a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) or even a SMG that's his choice for his situation. Why is everyone an expert? when they can't figure out its a matter of personal preferences. The internet is full of ppl who think they are all that, but in reality they are just a box of rocks.
Also, the gist of the video is shotguns being poor for a CQB assault. Almost nothing in this video had any rational attachment to home defense -- which is 1) call 911, 2) stay the fuck put and point your gun at the door to the room you're in.
It's the training thing that's the problem. most people won't do what it takes to be proficient. Most of us vets don't have a problem with it but we are the minority and you can forget trying to get most girls to even shoot 12ga shotguns twice. not when the can have an AR.
@SickCall Ranger "Give me something that goes bang and I'll make it happen. I would have no problem picking up a shotgun and getting the party started"
@@Enjoyer.762 You're %100 full of shit is what you are, making gross assumptions about strangers on the internet.
Ultimately, with the right load, the shotgun is the closest thing you’re going to the “one shot stop”, it’s not for everyone, you can’t suck at shooting due to the limited capacity and doing slower to reload. It comes down to capability and familiarity. If you’re competent they definitely don’t suck, but we live in an era where most honestly aren’t truly familiar with them.
It doesn't matter how much you train, if you face off against a half trained individual "sucking at shooting" won't matter if they know how to use cover.
@@gullyactual1898 ok, we will ignore that most nothing in a house is cover, or that switching to something else isn’t likely to defeat what’s cover to a shotgun or even a pistol.
Yep, if you're familiar with them you statistically won't use more than 3 rounds, can short stock in tight quarters, can switch from buck to slug if bg finds "cover" and refuses to leave, and a bad hit with a 12 ga is better than a bad hit with something else.
"Slower to reload." Hmm. I don't know. It's a tube gun, and 12 Guage shells are plenty big enough to grasp. Unlike tube fed .22lr. The point is, the tube allows you to top off or even slap shells straight into the chamber. It's almost unlimited ammo if you play it right. Considering 00 buck typically has 9 pellets, it's almost full auto. 1 trigger pull is 9 rounds times that by at least 5 rounds is 45 pellets. Even with all that benefit towards the shotgun. I'll stick with my AR. 55 gr fmj travels fast enough that over penetration doesn't exist.
I prefer the Paul Harrell viewpoint on it. Reloading is largely irrelevant in a realistic home defense scenario.
I think the two most important traits in a home defense gun are how immediately a single trigger pull can end a threat and how maneuverable it is. PCCs and shotguns are both on the opposite ends of the spectrum for that. I think a full auto SMG would be the perfect balance of both, of course acquisition of one of those isn’t nearly as easy as the other two.
Full auto is mostly useless
@@ThomasHendrickson Mostly, but on a good SMG like an MP5 it’s perfectly usable. You just don’t see military/police ranges used that way so much anymore because rifles are more prevalent for general use.
@@arcblooper2699 after a second look at your comment, I think I understand your point better. My bad. Come to think of it, I’m fairly certain that the MP7 is MORE useful on full auto because of the weak ammunition used. Or the Calico .22LR.
@@ThomasHendrickson Exactly.
@@arcblooper2699 here’s to hoping we can offer first hand accounts from owning them instead of reading about them.
1) A Shotgun is literally opposite of a "specialized tool". A pump action is literally the most versatile firearm on the planet.
2) Within common home distances, most buckshot rounds pattern very closely. If you're concerned, buy a box of whatever flight control made by umpteen companies.
3) If you have people coming into your home specifically to attack and kill you and your family, I'm assuming you did something to piss them off. Otherwise, making your position know and informing them you are armed is a great first step in deterring a violent criminal. Oddly enough I use the same approach with Bears.
4) You state shotguns are long, cumbersome and make it hard to maneuver homes (even with 18" barrels) but then showcase a pump action even shorter than your Benelli lol
5) Usually a rifle that fires a single projectile, in a very high stress home invasion situation would normally lead to lower hit probability vs a shotgun that fires multiple objects. Adrenaline sets in when it gets real, it takes more effort to shoulder and actually aim a PCC or SBC. Also kind of funny the same situation applies with Bears lol not to mention a 9mm or 5.56 will penetrate much farther than buckshot simply based off energy numbers.
So I understand this video was made for exactly what I just did, comment. And it helps your algorithms and gets attention to your video but as a firearms channel that should be unbiased when it comes to information about specific topics like this, I gotta say I'm a little disappointed.
i usually love their videos, but this one was seemingly put together by someone who clearly hasn't exercised combat tactics with proper shotguns and duress situations.that being said. if you do not have extended firearms experience i recommend a short shotgun. because in a duress situation if someone comes through your front door trying to kill you, you are more likely to instantly disable the target and more likely to hit the target as well, pistols having short barrels means that any small change in sight picture can make you miss at almost stupid close distances, rifles arent practical in duress without extended training and depending on your home situation isn't practical either. i am comfortable using all of the above for home defense as i live alone and have training sufficient enough to have muscle memory in a defense/duress situation. but saying shotguns suck for defense is not correct at all, if you miss with 6 shots in a shotgun, chances are you arent going to hit with 12-19 shots in a 9mm or whatever you're shooting. shotguns are still used to this day from military and police(for more than breaching). if they were that shitty they would be gone by now.
Here here, now we need someone smart like you making videos while MACCY the clown fades into irrelevance.
I would have to respectfully disagree. Anyone untrained can improperly use any type of weapon or employ that weapon in a tactically unsound manner. For weaker or smaller people(many women, the elderly, some disabled people) a shotgun is probably not the right choice. For most other people, it is a quite good choice. The power of a shotgun is undeniable and a hit at close range with 00 Buck, #4 Buck, or even a heavy birshot load(see Paul Harrell's video on Bird Shot in Your Home Defense Shotgun) on someone, even if they are drugged up, is very likely going to stop them immediately. Capacity doesn't really concern me either, as the 6-8 rounds most home defense style shotguns hold is plenty to deal with most situations. If you want more shells on the gun just in case, buy one of those Velcro shell holder cards that mount to the side of your gun's receiver and practice topping off the magazine tube with it. Clearing your house, unless you are trying to secure family members, is generally not a good idea. Unless forced to do otherwise, you should stay in your bedroom(assuming someone broke in while you were asleep) and call the police. If the guy who broke in tries to come through your door, first warn him that you have a gun and forcefully tell him to leave/cops are on the way. If he doesn't do that and manages to break through your door, blow him away. So, shotguns are not the right choice for everyone in every home defense scenario, but they definitely don't suck for a great many people's needs.
but we do have to take care of family members. So we do have to "clear the house".
And besides, there have been multiple cases when I had to grab something and just go investigate - for example a stupid possum got trapped in the garage. I'm not going to call 911 on him in the middle of the night. So I do need something that I can move around the house with. Shotgun is just way too big. Even a much shorter AK is problematic around some tight corners and stairs.
For me, in our house, if I went with a shotgun, I'd go with one of those "not a shotguns" without a stock. Hard to fire accurately, but should be very efficient within a house.
Excellent post and reply! I was going to bring up the same point as Alex did, if you have kids sleeping in another room, animals or just something extremely dear to you I agree that you cant just stay in your bedroom but if you do have that luxury, a shotgun is definitely one of your best choices for those of us who arent incredibly into guns and perhaps only own one or two guns. A shotgun can hunt almost anything from small birds to large deer and does a good job at self-defense. If I could only own one gun it would be a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun. Luckily I can own more so my choice is an AR carbine, easy for me to use, easy for my wife to use. Ready to go with a shake awake red dot cant be beat if you ask me!
@Bill short shotgun is an NFA item. If you can use one - great
@Bill or different house layouts
True, 6-8 shots in a rifle will kill 2-3 people, in a handgun will kill 1-2 people, and in a shotgun will kill 6-8 people.
I think you really made the case more for training, than against shotguns in this video. If you lack training with your firearm there are plenty of costly mistakes you can make, doesn't matter if it's a shotgun or not. And if you are trained, it shouldn't really matter because you know the limits and strengths of your weapon and situation.
Also love your channel, man.
Exactly. You'll have more issues with a pistol if you're not trained in either
Saying pumping your shotgun gives away your position is a redundant excuse. Aren’t you already going to shout at the home invader anyways? Tell him to leave, ask who he is? There’s been so many cases of mistaken identity where people shoot first ask questions later and that huge mistake landed them in prison for a long time.
And seriously, reload time? How many people actually needed to reload during a home invasion? You ain’t gonna miss with a shotgun and chances are, you’re not gonna be invaded by a whole army. No thief is gonna stick around for a full blown fire fight.
* Earth begins to tremble *
* Slowly turns around *
* See's an army of Fudds come running over the hill *
"What you mean my shotgun is just as good as you fancy 9mm plastic gun"
🤣 I can hear a rumble in the distance...
Lmao
If you live long enough you get old. Remember that. The young ones will have a pithy derogatory term for you.
@@sisleymichael Fudds can be any age
The irony of saying shotguns aren’t good for basically tactical use as he’s holding a benelli m4 used by the best military and swat units in the world lmao
Probably because most people aren't in specialized military units or SWAT teams.
When is the last time you saw any member of a swat team use a shotgun as a weapon? I think maybe sub 2010 is the last common uses.
Swat uses shotguns for less lethal and breaching almost exclusively from what i've seen
Yeah, like 1 shotgun per platoon if that, and the guy using it literally switches to an M4 Carbine as soon as the door hinges are blown out.
@@michaelmurdock6005 M4 is ARGO, you’re thinking of the M1/M2 inertia system. Completely different, biggest problem with the M4 is weight at 8lbs
@@ryanthompson9167 You're right
I agree with all your points, but for me the fact that shotgun instantly incapacitates an attacker with a single trigger pull outweighs all the cons.
I don't buy into all the usual 'stopping power' talk, but it does seem like a solid hit from 12 gauge buckshot is as close as you can get to a guaranteed one-shot stop.
@Jon M I am highly doubt you will have a chance to empty your tube … by the time it is empty ether all intruders will be dead or run away or you will be dead …
@Jon M with multiple attackers, I'd rather shoot three rounds slower to take out three attackers than use 1/3 to 1/2 a mag of a pistol into each of the three and possibly have to reload, which many people don't carry a second mag during home defense. And the time you loose during the pump you make up for not having to shoot 10+ times to stop the treat while they are still shooting at you.
It's a gun. It's not the staff of Gandalf.
@@foodooyou1 while all of the points you mentioned are valid, the point of intimidation I believe is still relevant. While the shotgun is iconic in that concept, shooting the first guy 8 times is more likely to scare the second and make him think of running than one shot
I was working at a heart doctors house, and I seen some targets he’d shot hanging in his basement. We talked awhile and I asked him what he used for home defense. He asked me how many people you hear about getting shot with hand guns surviving. And of course it’s quite a few. He then asked how many you here about getting shot with a shotgun surviving, of course I said none. His reply was because they go straight to the morgue. Bad example is a buddy of ours was turkey hunting, and some how laid the shotgun on his truck seat. And it went off when he climbed in. He got hit in the leg, which probably would have been “ livable” had it been a hand gun. But it pretty much blew his leg off, and he bled to death in a matter of minutes.
I have a shotgun for home defense and here is my logic. There are a lot of crackheads in my area. A pistol is only going to poke holes in someone. Without hitting a very specific spot, a pistol round is going to do much against a drugged up attacker. Also, when you're indoors you're much more vulnerable. It's very easy to get cornered. I want a guaranteed one shot stop. A 12 gauge to the upper torso is going to take any man down, drugged up or not. I've seen videos of people getting shot 5-10 times or more by handguns and continue to stand.
Donut operator has a video about sgt Timothy Gramins, who shot a man over 10 times (with a .45) in various vital organs including his heart, and he was still actively shooting back until he shot the suspect in the head and ended it. Now imagine that same scenario inside your house. That's why I use a shotgun for home defense.
The shotgun is just too big, also 9mm round can stop anyone easily and way better than even a rifle
.357 mag out of my model 19, or my henry big boy will stop a threat fast
@@emulation2369 dumbs
Agree with most of your observations - the big things you left out are cost and legallity. Your cool little PCC would be far more expensive than a regular 12GA pump and would be illegal (as short and suppressed) in many states. Thanks for the video!
Those states would love to ban shotguns too though
Showing a 12 gauge to a jury never looks as bad as showing an”AR style” rifle
@@Sig_P229 Until Clint Smith is called to the witness stand lol
Exactly. The average novice gun owner that only wants one gun to keep in the closet and never go shooting, just literally defense only, will buy $180 mossberg maverick 88.
@@Sig_P229 better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
As others have said, I'm going with Paul Harrel on this one. If I want info on a military arm, this channel is useful. For personal defense type info, nah..
“Shotguns have very specific applications”, your words MAC, for instance, maybe clearing a room and having devastating stopping power.
"C'mon man, you don't need an AR15... get a shotgun" Brandon
Introduces AR-15 shotgun…
Biden: Let’s not go Brandon :(
Shotguns are much better than AR-15 for home defense if you're talking about the 5.56mm AR-15. It is the overpenetration that could kill your loved ones. If it is an AR-15 PCC, then that is much better than a shotgun. A rifle style of handling, pistol caliber rounds packed in a high capacity mag, and no overpenetration.
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 overpenetration is achieved with any weapon system. It's greatly reduced by actually hitting your target.
@@hoppinggnomethe4154If over penetration is an issue then police wouldn't be using them to do entries with or even have them in cruisers patrolling cities. There are 5.56 loads that are ideal for home defense, they just cost a little more but you'll only need 2 mags worth for that while using bulk to train with.
A a shotgun is literally one of the most effective weapons for actually home defense not with this fantasy being portrayed
This guy, "I'd never want to give my position away with the sound of a pump shotgun", then says he'd clear the house with a pistol and a position giving light. Then immediately goes into showing his sbr which he says he'd only use outside. Besides the obvious negative legal ramifications of chasing an intruder outside or going outside to "handle" anyone else who at that point are not an immediate threat to your safety and in your home, and the maybe not so obvious safety issues which one should try to think about before acting, you probably should not exit your home. A few scenarios: In the country or the city the intruder or intruders could have buddies outside waiting to shoot you if you run outside to play rambo. In the crowded city you might mistake the wrong individual who sees you as a threat and reacts to defend themselves as you are running in their direction with a firearm in a ready to use stance. What if a neighbor saw the intruders looking suspicious and called the cops and by the time the cops are arriving on scene you come running out looking like a bad guy running and gunning. Please discard all of these non legitimate running and gunning fantasies and get real. Think of as many real life possibilities and scenarios that can happen so you can react properly and allow yourself and others to continue living as peaceful as possible. Stay strapped up with whatever you choose and keep a monk mentality.
Very well said.
This is why I don’t take many content creators seriously because people drink their Kool-Aide and find out that their favorite gun channel personally isn’t going to 1) bail them out of jail. 2) pay for their lawyer fees. 3) be the prosecutor. 4) be the judge. 5) and lastly be the jury. These Internet personalities are going to be inside their warm homes counting their money from our views or the idiots who buy their Amazon garbage while banging their hot wives. The gun community has become a gun range beauty pageant and we must bring back the Fudds to bring back balance against the Tactifool and competition community.
I don't recall him giving any tactics or training in how to clear a house. Closest he came was saying those who haven't been trained wave the end of a barrel around giving away your position to an intruder before the home owner sees the intruder. And you are aware most lights have a momentary switch on them right?
Well said, Eric
If I was a cynical man I’d say this whole video was design exclusively to stoke engagement
The title of the video ( after watching it ) should be “Shotguns suck IN A HANDS OF UNTRAINED OPERATOR”…. all his points against shotguns are falling down to the assumption that people do not know how to use shotguns …
did you not watch the video? he had more points than that.
Did you listen to the intro? MOST people who choose a shotgun for home defense are untrained.
@@dbmail545 Have you read the title of the video ? I did not see PEOPLE in his title …
Less than 1% of firearms owners ever attend any form of professional training. Those who are dumb enough to select a shotgun over a rifle are very much not the type of people to spend money on training.
or a person of smaller stature. A fully loaded riot gun can weigh upwards of 20 lbs. and is very unwieldy.
No mention of one very important factor--cost. A good pump shotgun can be had for under $300, while the least pricey PCCs will cost over $500. Lots of people have limited budgets for guns.
"And this really upset the germans"
Well damn, wouldn't want to upset the Germans during a war..
Politically correct in 1912🤔😬
he's describing more of a military combat situation in a building rather than a home invasion. if an intruder came in my bedroom and I could get a shotgun pointed at them in time. I can think of nothing better under those circumstances
I’ve got to say this video was some of the worst content I’ve seen MAC put out. I understand his position on the shotgun but this video should be titled “why shotguns and a lack of training are terrible for novices”.
Muuuuuch better title and less need to argue his points. I agree.
I don't agree with his title.
When Paul Harrell speaks about shotguns people should listen
But statistically, most home defence confrontations are resolved with a single shot and shotguns have the highest single shot lethality of any weapon type in successful real world home defence confrontations…
Germans during WW1: "The shotgun is too grotesque and good at slaughtering people."
MAC: "The shotgun is not good for self defense."
Germans during WW2: MP40, MP44.
Too be correct, he said shotguns are not good for HOME DEFENCE. In other circumstances its likely on of the better choices.
I appreciate the discussion, and all of this is based on training & experience. I'm in CA; the 12 ga pump gun is my "tactical rifle." I live in a stereotypical suburban residential neighborhood but less than 100 yards away is very thick natural underbrush where 5.56 does poorly. I'd still opt for the 12 ga shotgun heading into it.
@@Enjoyer.762 And they lost quite badly. :)
@@kenibnanak5554 it only took the world to stop them!
1. Shotguns NEED A SLING, then no one will take it away. Problem solved.
2. 5+1 or 8+1 of 12 gauge, NO need to reload. Next
3. Buck shot at house distances is JUST like a single projectile. Next
4. 12 gauge MORE powerful than an underpowered handgun round in a carbine.
Grab my barrel and I'll just pull the gun back toward me which centers the barrel on their chest and then I'll pull the trigger.
@@foodooyou1
Or get a Mossberg 590 w/ a bayonet.
Massive amounts of copium
Sorry, sport. If they are already in your house you are f*d! BTW an automatic pistol has more rounds and is much easier to use inside than an 18" barreled shotty.
@@dbmail545
If they got in, without making noise, you are screwed regardless of what you have in your arsenal.
Out here in the country NOTHING beats a shotgun for home defense.
You gotta love taking advice from a guy that has zero combat experience. I moved around houses in Iraq with my M4 which is the same length. He’s another guy trying to cash in on being an expert when he was a peace time marine.
I thought the same thing. There's nothing worse than an expert with no expertise in what they're specifically talking about and trying to still come across as an expert. He doesn't know what he's talking about, shotguns are the most idea home defense weapon, everything else requires hundreds of dollars worth of training.
Agreed.
I cleared hallways with an 870 many times as a patrol officer. We had m16A2s, but sometimes the 870 was just better suited.
Similar lengths. I took point in a fatal funnel with an 870 at an armed robbery.
If you know how to maneuver correctly, shotguns are perfectly fine.
Shotguns dont run dry when you know how to run your weapon.
Shoot one, load one
Shoot two, load two
You empty a shotgun in a hallway fight, no one is gonna be around at the other end when you go click, unless you picked a fight with the whole 1st division
As to your whole house clearing thing, you should NEVER be going and clearing your house in a break in or home invasion! No matter your level of training! Lock the door, hunker down behind some heavy furniture, and wait in ambush for them to come to you. NEVER go to them
Thats somewhat of an advantage of firearms with tubular magazines. Even leverguns you can be pushing singles in. If you have a box fed gun and empty it the time to next round is actually pretty long because you need to do a complete reload. Granted not many people in a home invasion are clearing rooms and sweeping the floors with birdshot. Unless its an operator that comes in uninvited not too many people have the psychological fortitude to endure getting chased by high brass flashbangs inside a room.
So you just hide in the corner while they rob you blind?? 🤔
@@EroticOnion23 my life is worth more than my things. If they wanna try to breach that door, they wont leave standing up. But no, you dont leave the Alamo in that situation
@@jordanhicks5131 well, for a lot of people their possessions is what keep them alive, uber drivers, craftsmen, etc. A slow death by starvation is still death.
@@EroticOnion23 that's a bullshit argument sir. There exists such a thing as renters insurance or homeowners insurance as well as car insurance. It's pretty affordable. And required in many places.
Things will be replaced. Your life will not
Normally, I think you have good content, but I'm going to call you out on this.
Nothing you said was explicitly wrong, but most of what you said is exaggerated.
Training is a universal issue. A trained individual with a suboptimal weapon will perform better than an untrained individual with an optimal weapon.
"Low capacity" is not an issue in home defense. The vast majority of self defense shootings are resolved in 5 rounds or less, the average being 2-3. My home defense 870 holds 7 rounds. (To be fair, my go to home defense gun is probably my handgun. If it gets THAT bad, I have an AR. The shotgun is if both me and my wife need something bigger than handguns.)
Weapon length is a training issue. 18 inches vs 16 inches is negligible, if we want to compare apples to apples. Comparing your SBR with a suppressor to a 18" shotgun is not a fair comparison. You can get a tax stamp for an SBS too.
I don't know what kind of a mansion you live in but 7 yards is a long shot in a home defense situation. 15 yards is all but unheard of.
Shotguns DO take a while to reload....completely from empty. It takes about the same amount of time to drop a shell into the chamber as it does to reload a pistol. Yes, the pistol will have more shots after the reload, but if you have emptied a shotgun and there is still a threat, you probably shouldn't have picked a fight with the Hulk.
I'm going to say it. PCCs are range toys and I'm tired of pretending they aren't. They have the defensive capacity of a handgun with the footprint of a rifle. Ammunition compatibility means jack shit if you don't use the same magazines. (I know, many use Glock mags, but yours does not.) If your PCC goes down, you aren't going to unload your PCC to load your handgun, you're going to just draw you already loaded handgun.
If I have to go outside of my house to deal with a threat, I'm grabbing the AR. Before that, if the threat is outside of my house, it can stay there while I call the police. I'm not going outside unless I HAVE to in such a situation. They can come inside and meet me on my own terms. Nothing outside of my house is worth my life.
I fear you are turning into IV8888, just another guntuber trying to get people to shop at their gun store.
I don't know about the last point but yeah, this video felt kinda sloppy, exaggerated and overgeneralized which is definitely not MAC's style
He’s clearly surpassed IV8888 on the gun store front lol
we should have shotguns for this.
@@SalP123c Tim went the “click bait” route on this one.
Best reply ever. 👍👍👍
"Why shotguns suck for defense"
They don't lol
Also want to point out he used spread as a con for shotguns because at distances you won't get all the buckshot on target, and then later mentions using a PCC because he's only concerned about short distances.
🤔
What's the point of a PCC it's just a castrated submachine gun.
@@user-ue6iv2rd1n a castrated smg still works pretty well as an smg
I mean technically they aren’t the most tactical. But they stop bears. Plus Ive personally seen a meth head get shot 7 times with a 9mm and be completely fine.
A shotgun removes peices of meat. It’s a better man stopper
I agree for the most part, but there’s also a video of a big bear taking 3” 00 buck to the face and running away fine. Let me see if i can find the video.
Use buckshot 12 guage also number 4 buckshot.
Here is the video. ua-cam.com/video/wj7Z5oMWuIU/v-deo.html
There's also a video of an Italian woman hunting hogs who dumps 3-4 slugs into a hog's face and she needs to use the shotgun itself as a club to make it stop coming.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD Don't come! Said Kamala. Do not come!
MAC is sometimes entertaining, often aggravating, and usually wrong. This vid checks all those boxes.
At least the winger finally stopped wearing USMC patches on everything.
I completely agree! While I like him and appreciate his videos and effort, there always seems to be something he says or his tone that makes me roll my eyes.
what anti terror forces and swats use inside a building gives a good idea of what the best weapon is for the purpose. its mac`s alternative, the pistol caliber carbine ..and have been for many decades
His whole premise is idiotic. If you’re getting into a firefight in your house you’ve already messed up.
MAC knows better but can't resist the urge to gaslight his viewers.
Typical Lance Koolee rational.
The problem with shotguns is that 'tactical' people have NO IDEA how to shoot them, as shown in this video.
Nothing beats a maverick 88 for a “Im heading out into the woods alone gun”. You can kill birds, deer, bear, moose, and even two legged threats. Plus a Mav 88 is 180$, you can beat it up!
They are nice and reliable.
many do actually
Until it immediately starts rusting out of the box 😂
I have won many sporting clays, trap and skeet games against others with thousands of dollars autos and over unders with my mavrick 88 it is the best in it's class and some
@@danielsilvas6200 it’s definitely well designed but the materials are really lacking.
I'm glad that we can agree to disagree and still respect everyone's opinions. I disagree with most of the logic in this video. Pcc's are more expensive. Also pistol calibers especially 9mm are effective but I would trust one shot with a shotgun over one shot with 9mm which is all the time you might have. A pump shotgun is safer and easier to learn how to use and shoot than semi-auto pistols or semi- auto rifles. Any gun you are going to use for self-defense you need to train with. For example, even a revolver if you never train with it you are going to be in a lot of trouble if you have to use it. Same with a shotgun or any other gun. Shotguns are affordable and very common with ammo available at any store usually. Any caliber even 22lr will penetrate walls in your home so saying 12 gauge slings lead everywhere is kind of true of any caliber. Thanks for the video! I always enjoy watching them.
I agree, I enjoy civil discourse with people of differing opinions. I 100% disagree that pump shotguns are easier to teach someone how to effectively use. I've tried. Many times. First, when someone comes to me with a brand new 12ga they bought for home defense asking for some pointers, the first thing they discover is the violent recoil of a proper defensive round like 00 Buck. At that point I get into teaching them to pull the gun tight into their shoulder and trying to help them work through the fear of the recoil. That's how most of the instruction goes at first. New shooters almost never expect the recoil. So then they try #8 bird shot and they say, "That's much better I don't need those buck shot things". Now they're using bird shot and looking for light recoiling loads. One relative fired a handful of rounds and said they had enough, and sold their shotgun. With all of that being said, I only showed what I use based on my experiences and training. At no time do I say "you must do as I do". That, and there some affordable PCC's, not all of them are super expensive. Thanks for the post.
I disagree with both. AR pistol is hard to beat.
You can't short stroke a revolver. It happens to even highly trained users. While some issues can be mitigated by training (+ continuation of repetitions and range trips), it is still the most different to all sorts of other firearms handling and there are a lot more sources to mess up. Loading, unloading, malfunction clearing, recoil control, aiming depending on classic and fastest sights (the bead). Even if it's an all tricked out saiga 12. Reloads are fumbly, every magazine is quite heavy and they still tend to fail in 3 Gun often enough. I still like shotguns a lot for their versatility.
22 lr/9mm/5.56/12 gauge will penetrate walls in the US, not where I live.
Repeating what onpsxmember wrote below because it needs to be said again...
"You can't short stroke a revolver. It happens to even highly trained users."
That is why a Pump Shotgun is often the Wrong Choice for HD.
For most of us, the best firearm for home defence is the one we have, or the one we can get. For me, that's my 870.
Hey, if you use it and are proficient with it, you do you. No where in the video do I say "If you don't agree with me you're stupid". Sadly, that's what some people hear even when it's not said. Thanks for watching and being civil.
@@Militaryarmschannel yeah but the trouble with the clickbait title is that, "if someone uses something that sucks they must be stupid."
Your advice is certainly applicable to the untrained and we don't have that in South Africa, you have to do competency training and then apply for a license. Anyway I have an 870 and a 9mm with 21 rounds in it... Not only that I'm not going to do a house clearing with either firearm.
I totally agree. Here in South Africa, at least you have some form of training before you even purchase your FA. What I do not agree with thou is the house clearing. In South Africa and I am sure in the USA or most of the world, self defense implies that the threat was imminent and unavoidable. Clearing you home means that you went looking for the threat. Selfie defense does not cover possessions. Rather get your shotgun, cover the door, call the police, put on load speaker if you have to and shout out to the intruders that you have called the police. If they are still willing to come through your bedroom door after that then you have no alternative but to use your gun. I also believe in the ethos that your home should be setup in such a way that there is one assembly place if there is a home invasion and also that all bedrooms should have a line of defense maybe a burglar proof gate between the them and the living rooms. If perps still make it through that then they are fair game. I love all people and wish harm to nobody.
Who came to the comments for the response just on the title?😂
Here😂😂😂
Grabbed popcorn for this.
My best friend Brandon told me all I needed was a shotgun. He knows what’s best, so I listened.
🤣
Lol 😂
C’mon Man!!
Your friend Brandon sounds like someone even the dead would vote for.
Living in a state where I can’t legally own ar pistols/short pcc’s or mags that hold over 10 rounds is why I choose a shotgun. I have a loaded pistol with 4 spare mags handy but also an 870 with 6+1 of 3” 00 buck, a side saddle with 6 more shells. 3 more 00 buck 3” and 3 1oz slugs. Tritium front sight and surefire for-end with built in light. Magpul stock so it shortens the gun a little bit, sling attachment so it’s attached to my body. Big dog to give me a heads up. If i lived in a freer state i would definitely pick a suppressed 45acp or 10mm pcc like a cmmg that takes glock mags and have a glock 40 or 41 paired with it. This is just what I have to deal with until we can change it here or I move.
You'll love the g40 10mm
You shoot magnum 00 buckshot? Bro you’re a madlad lmao
@@brodiddy877 i know it works lol. I have a 3.5 inch 12 gauge also but that’s for water fowl and long range turkey shots.
What sad communist state do you live in? Lol
@ no don’t. The nearby states are overrun with idiots who let their state go to hell.
Tim thanks for a a gutsy take on shotguns for home defense. Since I live in Calif. and am limited to 10 rounds, I have both a shotgun and a pistol. If I had an AR with 20 rounds that might be my preference. Your negatives you disclose in the video will help me train for better home defense engagement. Just got a Tavor TS 12 and now I feel more secure in my shotgun protection.
Your allowed to have 30 round mags in cali youu dummy. Just dont walk up to a cop with them in your gun. Outside of the gun is 100% legal
shotguns don’t suck, they are very effective for their role
They suck compared to any rifle.
Which isn't home defense
The weapon is less important than the tactics. If you live alone it’s not wise to go searching the house for the intruder. Take a defensive position and call 911. When the intruder comes to you address the threat from concealment. A shotgun is fine for this and quite lethal. And yes training to achieve proficiency is a must with all weapons.
Totally agree. When the blue state DA comes at you after the fact, having gone to cover and called 911 means you have a much better case than if you try room clearing. Secure your loved ones, call 911 , stay on the phone and should the zombies come then use your weapon to defend yourself. Your tv can be replaced. It’s cheaper than a defense attorney.
Arguing that a certain weapon platform is inferior without training is faulty logic because NO firearm is a safe or effective tool for a new untrained shooter. And there is also a lot more to successfully clearing a house than using a handgun. Without serious training in all facets problem solving with firearms, a family has the best chance of survival in a "self defense" situation by barricading themselves with a shotgun or carbine and letting criminals steal the TVs and beer while the LEOs respond. An 18"-20" barreled shotgun is just fine for a stationary position.
Seriously, this video is a joke.
Mac: This bottom-o-the-barrel price Turkish shotgun, with absolutely no training sucks for home defense!
Mac: This fully decked out pcc sbr with a suppressor and red dot, that I've spent hours upon hours spending time with is the ideal choice!
Exactly
Yes it’s true that people around the world know what that sound is even if they are armed most are terrified of a shotgun.
@@saihemebillings2820 Yea, but you can't rely on that being enough. Best be prepared to use it and not just rely on the sound of chambering a shell to do the work for you.
@@Saku19 I see this logic quite a bit on forums and reddit as well. People comparing cheap old shotguns that have been sitting in a dusty closet with their $2000-$3000 fully decked out weapon with scopes and dots/lasers that they spend a lot of time with.
The fact that a cheap shotgun still gets the job done says a lot about how brilliantly simple and effective it is. That said, you should always train anyways. No need to be a liability to yourself or others.