There'd be no Randy Savage if his father Angelo didn't break him into the business. In turn there would be no Angelo Poffo If Stu Hart hadn't trained and broken him in. 1951 to 1989 all roads lead back to Stu Hart. He trained and broke in more men than any other trainer in history. That's why he's in the WWE hall of fame.
I've seen online people saying "whos this guy with jim"" why the fuck is he there?" well just listen to the names he pulled out, NUFF SAID the guy knows his wrestling more than most, he knows his shit and works well with Jim....END OF!
They hate him because he’s not some fat slob that doesn’t know what he’s talking about and simply glombing off of and trading on the name of wrestling talent...so they have nothing to actually aim at the guy. What? He’s too smart? Too passionate? I’d put Brian Last up against any co-host out there.
@@derricklayman227 he's not wrong. The question was "where does Bret rank on the list of wrestlers who were the son of a promoter" So of all of the promoters kids, who is the best wrestler? Not the biggest star, not who is better than their dad, just which of the sons is the best wrestler of the bunch...
Though I lean more towards Bret Hart or Randy Savage, I feel like they're forgetting Eddie Guerrero and his papi Gory. Now Eddie might not have been as big as a star but was still a big deal to lots of wrestling fans, especially to the younger generation of fans.
Eddie Guerrero main evented WM20 in Madison Square Garden. Plus, I'm not American, so I'm not entirely sure whether Puerto Ricans are considered Latinos or not, but if they're not, Eddie is also the first Latino WWE Champion. If they are, Eddie is still the first Latino to win the WWE title since they rebranded from the WWWF, Eddie would've been only like 3 or 4 years old when Morales was champion too. I'd argue Eddie surpassed his father's fame tbh.
@@walsh9080 I might have not been clear when I said he was " not as big as a star". I meant to Bret and Randy. I do agree with you that he surpassed his father's fame, but compared to those two, no. As a Canadian, I can attest that Bret Hart was a national hero back in his day. As for Randy Savage, he became a mainstream figure without really ever doing movies or tv, unlike his closest peer. I like Eddie (I grew up watching him, Chris and Rey) but he was big in the wrestling bubble. But than again I'm not Latino, so I don't know how big he was in that community. I'd like to hear that though.
We can actually use Bret Hart's own scale to determine this whole Savage vs Hart thing. Savage is probably the only wrestler who scores 9s or 10s in every category. It's gotta be Savage
Blackjack owned the NWA Amarillo territory with Dick Murdoch and the NWA Knoxville territory with Flair at different times but both for short terms. Barry should most definitely be on the list
owen may have been better . maybe a little less technical but he was more athletic and had a more dynamic repertoire. i honestly believe owens talent was part of the reason vince allowed bret to walk . But Bret is my favorite and i do believe he was the best but owen belongs in that conversation.
its hard to make the argument that Brett is ahead of Race Flair Bruno Hogan on Mt. Rushmore ... Brett was very good probably even technically better than Bruno on Hogan but on longevity and drawing power Bruno and Hogan would be ahead. Brett is probably top 10 all time ... top 20 for sure but best of all time ... idk.
Also Randy was a pop culture star. Non wrestling fans knew who Savage was, not so much for Brett. Also, I don't think Jim understood the question. he kept comparing the wrestlers to their fathers instead of just looking at who was the best star that had a father as a promoter. Yet Brian didn't correct him, very strange unless I'm missing something.
@@smarkslowplay3512 True and I forgot he said promoter. But if it was just wrestler The Rock was in my opinion bigger then his dad and grandpa just like I believe Randy Orton is.
Bret is one of the best ever period, let alone best with a father promoter. Cause who is better than Bret on general? None of them had parents as promoters
Owen might've been a better all around performer. Bret was far more accomplished and slightly better in-ring but Owen was much more entertaining and had great comedic timing.
@@MattSingh1 Lol, says the guy who probably never even saw them wrestle. Owen by far was the better performer. Bret only shines brighter because he was older and wasn't sacrificed to the rating gods by whatever moron wanted to save a few seconds off of Owen's release catch.
The question was who was the best wrestling son of a promoter. You guys morphed it into whether he was better than his father. From the territory days- Dory Funk Jr and Terry Funk were NWA world champions for years each. Kerry Von Erich was NWA World Champion, and one of the most popular wrestlers ever and David was supposed to get World Title run. Tully Blanchard was a top heel and world tag champion wherever he went. Bret and Owen Hart certainly deserve recognition. And Randy Savage was world champion in the 2 biggest territories of his time. That said- to answer the question posed: 1. Randy Savage 2. Terry Funk 3. Kerry Von Erich 4. Bret Hart 5. Dory Funk Jr. 6. Tully Blanchard 7. Owen Hart 8. David Von Erich 9. Jeff Jarrett 10. Brad Armstrong
@@BeeBumper I mean I don’t care if he had 2 broken arms and 2 broken legs, the fact is Tandy is by far better all round than his dad, doesn’t mean his dad wasn’t great, but randy is a top 10 all time
I’d agree except for the promo aspect. And Flair drew everywhere and over different generations. Of course, Bret never got the chance to be anywhere else except WCW after it was in perpetual decline.
@@williamflowers9435 Yup you're right. Flair on the mic was beast. But for some reason, I enjoyed watching Bret wrestle cause I thought he was so smooth and when he had to get intense, He did. Also Eddie, So smooth in the ring.
@@Renodrums-vq8nv Ageed. Bret was just so smooth and excellent with all of his in ring work. Best there is, best there was and best there ever will be.
I did get to see some Bob Orton Sr matches in Tampa and he was definitely a top talent. BTW, Guns of Will Sonnett was a very good western (Walter Brennan and Dack Rambo)
This might not resonate with a lot of people but its odd to me there was zero mention of the Rougeau family... the father was the promoter in the Quebec territory in the 60s-90s regularly selling out their big monthly shows of over 20,000 people at the Montreal Forum. The father and uncle were both big singles stars in the territory for a long time. The two sons, Jacques and Raymond Rougeau easily surpassed their father. Raymond became a top baby face in the territory while Jacques was on a run in the Memphis territory. When Jacques returned, the brothers teamed up and became one of the beloved tag teams the Quebec territory ever saw. They had an amazing bloody fued with Ronnie and Jimmy Garvin. Eventually they signed with the WWF, ultimately becoming tag team champions multiple times before Raymond finally stepped away from the ring to pursue several backstage roles within WWF(where he stayed until 2001), meanwhile Jacques would go on to become the Mountie and win the Intercontinental belt defeating Bret Hart, before forming a tag team known as the Quebecers and ultimately winning more tag team gold before his career started to fizzle out. Jacques had an unofficial retirement match in 1997 in Montreal, against Hulk Hogan at a WCW house show and the match ended with Rougeau beating Hogan cleanly in the middle of the ring. I would say both of them deserve a spot on this list of sons having more success than their promoter fathers.
The question was who is the best son if a promoter, not better than his father or best second generation wrestler. Having said that, I don't know if Nick Bockwinkel's father was a promoter but Nick was always one of my favorites.
@@damienthorne3012 Dusty started to promote Florida i believe just as they were turning into the Performance Center ..he was definitely starting to promote indy shows there because I saw an interview where he talked about bringing back FCW.
I’m a huge Randy Savage fan but Bret vs Mr.Perfect, Roddy Piper, Bulldog, Owen, Michaels, Austin beats anything Savage ever did if I’m being honest with myself. This is no knock on Savage as he’s my number 2.
@Kwame brown and Jim cornette burner account when I think of great savage matches, only vs Steamboat and vs DDP come to mind. I didn’t really care for the match with the Warrior - Warrior kicking out of so many elbow drops, talking to the sky then hitting a dozen shoulder tackles knocking savage to the floor over and over really killed it for me. Also, vs flair was all wrong in my opinion. Savage took a beating 99% of the match ( as savage does in almost every match in which he’s the baby face ) even though it was built as Savage getting revenge on flair for trashing his wife. It was the wrong in-ring story told. Savage needing to pull the tights then getting his ass kicked after the match was lame. Savage should have gone in as a man possessed and beat the hell out of flair 75% of the match with a clean win. Same goes for savage winning the mania tournament in ‘88 - he wasn’t booked strong in any of the matches. Got his ass kicked 99% of the time in every match and sqweeked out on DQs and a Hogan chair-shot. Terrible way to win.
Eddie Guerrero would be on the list if you consider El Paso to be a territory (not just the shows Gory promoted with Amarillo)and the Hispanic based shows he ran in the border towns etc
In overall drawing power, I think the Macho Man Randy Savage holds the crown. He was a top draw in his father's outlaw promotion, Memphis, WWF, and WCW, and is still known outside of wrestling to a degree very very few have managed, despite not really transitioning to Hollywood (or trying) and being dead for over a decade. Hart is close though, and is definitely the better in-ring worker, but he had both a shorter run as a top guy (though more due to injury than any fault of his own) and never really broke away from being just a wrestler. Owen Hart was victimized by bad booking and Russo, but was honestly better than Bret (on the mic at least, in ring they're both two of the best ever) and should have reached far higher than he did. If the fact that it was his grandma that was the promoter and not father counts, then I think the Rock is on par with Savage, if not #1. He had a shorter run, but in a different era, and definitely drew more money as well as expanded out of wrestling to be a household name and an actor. No where as good in-ring, but Savage was one of the best in his own right, so that's no knock against anyone. Also, Dusty Rhodes I think started a promotion in the early 00's, Turnbuckle or something, so he was a promoter. I don't think Dustin or Cody either one are remotely near the level of many of the names listed though; Dustin has remained a solid upper midcard guy his whole career and Cody's biggest achievements in ring is a neck tattoo, and getting his wife pregnant. I guess being the one to come up with AEW, he's eclipsed his dad as a promoter, though. The actual product is... less than thrilling to me, to be polite, but it has managed to break the million mark a few times and seems to consistently draw over 3/4 of a million viewers. So... yay, Cody?
I'd agree that Stu is more well known than Angelo is, but Savage is one of the biggest names in All of wrestling. It's a good and pretty fun argument either way. Respect to all parties involved. Except for roadd dogg, it's a shame he has the Armstrong name.
Ur also forgetting about The Rock, Rocky Johnson, and High Chief Peter Maivia. Not to mention Yokozuna and Roman Reigns when it comes to the Wild Samoans.
Yes, Greg Gagne was not mentioned but should have. True, he was not his father's equal as a legend, but Greg could wrestle and was underrated because he was undersized. But anyone who graduated from Verne's training camp with Billy Robinson as an instructor should be respected
its hard to make the argument that Brett is ahead of Race Flair Bruno Hogan on Mt. Rushmore ... Brett was very good probably even technically better than Bruno on Hogan but on longevity and drawing power Bruno and Hogan would be ahead. Brett is probably top 10 all time ... top 20 for sure but best of all time ... idk.
How do you come up with that conclusion? Wrestling is very subjective, but if you go with biggest stars ever, you would think Hogan, Flair, Andre, etc...Now if you're talking technical wrestler, guys like Dean Malenko would be better. So are you being subjective, because he was your favorite?
I know they are not the top of the top, but what about the Malenkos? While Dean was never a mega star-he was definitely a National star in his mid card WCW and WWE runs, and Boris was a regional star where went and booked.
Salvador Lutteroth's son, can't remember his name, but he didn't run his daddy's company out of business, and is the longest standing company in pro wrestling now. CMLL is actually in the fourth generation of family owners now. AAA is still running strong after Antonio Peña's son took over too. But yes, with any organization, for profit business or otherwise, it's best to give leadership to the most qualified and most benevolent individual, rather than keep it in the family for its own sake.
I don't know much about Randy Orton's grandfather but I find it hard to believe that he was a bigger star than Orton. Dude would have literally had to have been a top 2/3 guy in the industry for a decade to have reached his level. How many world titles did Orton win like 14?
I would say the better wrestlers that were sons of promoters used their parent's company as just a stepping stone, but they got themselves to the top based on their skills, charisma, and talent. Bret Hart is a great example of this. And yes, Owen was probably a better performer than Bret because he can do everything that Bret could do, but Bret couldn't do everything that Owen could do.
They left out greg gagne and matt borne- blackjack mulligan and ric flair briefly had knoxville but that prob doesnt count- I'm not too familiar with rhe fuller family but they probably count- plus erik watts and garret bischoff
How did neither of them mention the Gagnes? I realize the majority of Jim's experience was in the south but the AWA was pretty important for a long time.
@@joefly6483 Hell I might put him up there in the running as it goes for tag team wrestlers. He's really underrated in that role. And most sons of promoters usually go for being singles stars for the most part.
The ring boy scandal was too public and would have got Vince too much main stream heat if he blackballed Barry O or Bob Jr. And the plan b thing, wasn't really known about until the last few years when it surfaced on UA-cam.
Vince McMahon: “My son and I are the greatest father/son promoter/wrestler combination ever. I bought every major competitor, and my son HHH was at the top of the industry for 20 years. What? No, HHH is my son and heir. Shane? Shane who? No idea who that is.”
@@theghostoflarrysteve3441 AFAIK Owen owned the company but Barr did a lot of spot show promotion and ran some of the secondary towns. He also ended up being the promoter when Owen sold up and retired, but by that point the Portland territory was dead and buried so that bit probably shouldn't count. Speaking of left field choices, nobody wants to talk about him for obvious reasons but Grizzly Smith was a promoter in Louisiana so Jake ought to be in the consideration.
It's a shame that we never got a Bret Hart vs Kurt Angle match.
@SP Agreed
Some house shows got Owen vs. Kurt though. Right before Owen's death.
@@maxxdahl6062 Yeah i remember hearing about that
@@terrencecastonguay1984 There's pictures of it floating around.
@@maxxdahl6062 Didn't Kurt actually mention that he wrestled Owen or am i mistaken?
Randy Savage is up there for me
There'd be no Randy Savage if his father Angelo didn't break him into the business. In turn there would be no Angelo Poffo If Stu Hart hadn't trained and broken him in. 1951 to 1989 all roads lead back to Stu Hart. He trained and broke in more men than any other trainer in history. That's why he's in the WWE hall of fame.
Absolutely. Both Macho Man and Bret are up there as two of the absolute greatest.
I've seen online people saying "whos this guy with jim"" why the fuck is he there?" well just listen to the names he pulled out, NUFF SAID the guy knows his wrestling more than most, he knows his shit and works well with Jim....END OF!
I'll be one of those people who give Brian shit, but I won't discredit him. He knows his shit
He's way better than conrad
They hate him because he’s not some fat slob that doesn’t know what he’s talking about and simply glombing off of and trading on the name of wrestling talent...so they have nothing to actually aim at the guy. What? He’s too smart? Too passionate?
I’d put Brian Last up against any co-host out there.
@@joshuaDstarks And doesn't have to read Meltzer for all of his wrestling knowledge.
I've heard Konnan say "who".
When Joe was about to try to explain it Konnan said "I don't care" lol.
Love all these bret hart topics of late
Hell yeah
I hate them
@@alberttwangle893 Don't listen or watch them then
@@Ashman1971 Kenny omega > Bret shitman Hart
Tully Blanchard would have been more successful than Joe Blanchard if im not mistaken.
This argument is inconclusive until we see Tony Khan's son wrestling career.
That incel has a son?
Lmfao 😂😂😂😂 and his name gonna be Coke Khan jr 🤣😂😂
9 days 9 days
Meltzer has already given him 8 stars!
I can't imagine Khan talking to a woman, much less having a child one day
They botched this question. The question wasn't which promoter's son was better than their father. It was which promoter's son was the best wrestler.
wrong listen again
@@derricklayman227 he's not wrong. The question was "where does Bret rank on the list of wrestlers who were the son of a promoter"
So of all of the promoters kids, who is the best wrestler? Not the biggest star, not who is better than their dad, just which of the sons is the best wrestler of the bunch...
Though I lean more towards Bret Hart or Randy Savage, I feel like they're forgetting Eddie Guerrero and his papi Gory. Now Eddie might not have been as big as a star but was still a big deal to lots of wrestling fans, especially to the younger generation of fans.
Eddie Guerrero main evented WM20 in Madison Square Garden. Plus, I'm not American, so I'm not entirely sure whether Puerto Ricans are considered Latinos or not, but if they're not, Eddie is also the first Latino WWE Champion. If they are, Eddie is still the first Latino to win the WWE title since they rebranded from the WWWF, Eddie would've been only like 3 or 4 years old when Morales was champion too. I'd argue Eddie surpassed his father's fame tbh.
@@walsh9080 I might have not been clear when I said he was " not as big as a star". I meant to Bret and Randy. I do agree with you that he surpassed his father's fame, but compared to those two, no. As a Canadian, I can attest that Bret Hart was a national hero back in his day. As for Randy Savage, he became a mainstream figure without really ever doing movies or tv, unlike his closest peer. I like Eddie (I grew up watching him, Chris and Rey) but he was big in the wrestling bubble. But than again I'm not Latino, so I don't know how big he was in that community. I'd like to hear that though.
That's a great point.
We can actually use Bret Hart's own scale to determine this whole Savage vs Hart thing. Savage is probably the only wrestler who scores 9s or 10s in every category. It's gotta be Savage
Savage: 10,10,10
I am glad I am not the only person who thinks that.
Savage a first ballot hofer
WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!
Blackjack Mulligan owned a promotion and promoted for a while. So Barry Windham should be on that list.
Barry didn't have the heart for it. He didn't care for it really.
Blackjack owned the NWA Amarillo territory with Dick Murdoch and the NWA Knoxville territory with Flair at different times but both for short terms. Barry should most definitely be on the list
@@at1212b then he would not have been so f****** good if he didn't like it
YES! Probably 3rd after Savage and Blanchard,
@@machomanforeverworldchampion hart and funks world Champions
More Bret is always best!
Brittney you're the best!😍🤘
You're hot af
Hitman never fails
Strange question. Bret is the best period. Never mind the best of a very small pool of guys who had a promoter as a dad
You beat me to it
owen may have been better . maybe a little less technical but he was more athletic and had a
more dynamic repertoire. i honestly believe owens talent was part of the reason vince allowed bret to walk . But Bret is my favorite and i do believe he was the best but owen belongs in that conversation.
Actually, since Angelo Poffo was a promoter,
Savage > Bret
its hard to make the argument that Brett is ahead of Race Flair Bruno Hogan on Mt. Rushmore ... Brett was very good probably even technically better than Bruno on Hogan but on longevity and drawing power Bruno and Hogan would be ahead. Brett is probably top 10 all time ... top 20 for sure but best of all time ... idk.
@@travisheckel3788 Couldn't believe nobody said Macho.
This was a really great question! Loved the convo
The excellence of execution was such fitting name for Bret, Everything he did looked great.
Growing up watching Bret Hart in the 90s was awesome
Owen was better
Bret Hart isn’t just the best. He is the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be.
Nope. He's a salty old man. *Smug Face*
Really? Who says?
Randy Savage would have to be number 1 on that list.
Especially when he was IC Champ
Also Randy was a pop culture star. Non wrestling fans knew who Savage was, not so much for Brett. Also, I don't think Jim understood the question. he kept comparing the wrestlers to their fathers instead of just looking at who was the best star that had a father as a promoter. Yet Brian didn't correct him, very strange unless I'm missing something.
One that isn't mentioned is Fit Finlay. His dad was a promoter in Northern Ireland.
Gotta remember the Von Erichs here too... Kevin and David were some of the best i ever saw live
I was absolutely shocked they didn’t mention the Von Erich’s
Based on who was mentioned.....
The top 4 is easily Bret Hart, Randy Savage, Terry Funk, and Dory Funk Jr.
Then there's everyone else.
Not an expert by any means but would Eddie Guerrero be a candidate ?
Gory just wrestled, he never booked or promoted or controlled territory. That’s the sole difference here.
The Bret Hart bio was awesome
Did Jim forget Erik Watts? LOL. I wouldn't remember him either.
The rock was bigger then his dad but that is like The Randy Orton deal.
I agree with you on The rock just because he broke in in the mid 90s when it was still other competitive wrestling promotions.
Rocky Johnson wasn't a promoter. Dwayne's grandma was
Bigger THAN not bigger THEN
@@scottbreon9448 Thanks for catching that. Sometimes I text too fast.
@@smarkslowplay3512 True and I forgot he said promoter. But if it was just wrestler The Rock was in my opinion bigger then his dad and grandpa just like I believe Randy Orton is.
Grandson of a promoter, The Rock
Randy Savage and Bret Hart are kind of tied for me
"'Im the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.” - Bret Hart
He's wrong lol
Facts!
He’s not even the best in his family
@@tomwhite8282 He's better than Owen, who's left? Bruce? Diana?
@Kwame brown and Jim cornette burner account Bret even said Dynamite was the best and learned from Tom.
I'm glad he said Randy wasn't all around as good as Bob Jr. Bob jr was tremendous
“Other than Vince”, shows how much a genius vince was
Vince isn't actually a wrestler
@@conniecarroll7222 That wasn't what they were discussing at that stage.
Bret is one of the best ever period, let alone best with a father promoter. Cause who is better than Bret on general? None of them had parents as promoters
Owen might've been a better all around performer. Bret was far more accomplished and slightly better in-ring but Owen was much more entertaining and had great comedic timing.
All around, Owen was arguably better than Bret. Bret was just more marketable, which didn't inherently make him better.
Savage's dad was a promoter.
@@maxxdahl6062 and Bret is better thsn Savage so my point stands
@@randylynch4330 Savage could wrestle AND cut promos. My point still stands.
Randy Savage? Or am I wrong on that one?
I also love Grandmaster sexay.
I feel like the little kid on the porch with his action figures listening to jim and Brian talking 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bret Hart is the greatest wrestler ever bar none.
Therefore the answer to this question is obvious.
Bret wasn't even the greatest wrestler in the family.
@@kjpierson1152 *You're clueless and don't know wrestling.*
@@MattSingh1 Lol, says the guy who probably never even saw them wrestle. Owen by far was the better performer. Bret only shines brighter because he was older and wasn't sacrificed to the rating gods by whatever moron wanted to save a few seconds off of Owen's release catch.
This clip should have been 2 seconds after the question was asked. It's clearly Savage. Then Tully. Done.
The question was who was the best wrestling son of a promoter. You guys morphed it into whether he was better than his father. From the territory days- Dory Funk Jr and Terry Funk were NWA world champions for years each. Kerry Von Erich was NWA World Champion, and one of the most popular wrestlers ever and David was supposed to get World Title run. Tully Blanchard was a top heel and world tag champion wherever he went. Bret and Owen Hart certainly deserve recognition. And Randy Savage was world champion in the 2 biggest territories of his time. That said- to answer the question posed:
1. Randy Savage
2. Terry Funk
3. Kerry Von Erich
4. Bret Hart
5. Dory Funk Jr.
6. Tully Blanchard
7. Owen Hart
8. David Von Erich
9. Jeff Jarrett
10. Brad Armstrong
Randy not as good all round as Bob???? what?? I’ll have whatever they’re smoking.
Yea, I mean come on Jim..Randy is much better than his dad ever was, on and off the mic.
Bob wrestled for 2 years with a broken arm and still dominated
@@BeeBumper I mean I don’t care if he had 2 broken arms and 2 broken legs, the fact is Tandy is by far better all round than his dad, doesn’t mean his dad wasn’t great, but randy is a top 10 all time
Yeah but Bob actually could play both a heel and face perfectly? All of Randy's baby face runs have been mediocre at best
Don't really care for his politics but Jim's a brilliant wrestling mind.
He's even more brilliant politically. ☑️💯
They misunderstood the question. They compared fathers and sons, not the sons amongst each other.
I think the obvious answer was Bret anyway so their discussion made it more interesting
You are correct.
In the bottom right of the thumbnail is that suppose to be Kerry? Because it looks exactly like Tom Zenk.
Two words to enter in the argument: Randy Savage
I gotta say, Bret is probably the best. I'd even say he's better than Flair. He was just so perfect and smooth in the ring.
I’d agree except for the promo aspect. And Flair drew everywhere and over different generations. Of course, Bret never got the chance to be anywhere else except WCW after it was in perpetual decline.
@@williamflowers9435 Yup you're right. Flair on the mic was beast. But for some reason, I enjoyed watching Bret wrestle cause I thought he was so smooth and when he had to get intense, He did. Also Eddie, So smooth in the ring.
@@Renodrums-vq8nv Ageed. Bret was just so smooth and excellent with all of his in ring work. Best there is, best there was and best there ever will be.
Savage!
I did get to see some Bob Orton Sr matches in Tampa and he was definitely a top talent. BTW, Guns of Will Sonnett was a very good western (Walter Brennan and Dack Rambo)
Bret Hart and the Hart Dynasty forever (the Hennig's and the Jarrett's get respectful mention).
No one mentions Eric Watts lol
Bret Hart followed closely by Randy Savage, Terry Funk
The question wasn't comparing the son to the father.
This might not resonate with a lot of people but its odd to me there was zero mention of the Rougeau family... the father was the promoter in the Quebec territory in the 60s-90s regularly selling out their big monthly shows of over 20,000 people at the Montreal Forum.
The father and uncle were both big singles stars in the territory for a long time. The two sons, Jacques and Raymond Rougeau easily surpassed their father.
Raymond became a top baby face in the territory while Jacques was on a run in the Memphis territory. When Jacques returned, the brothers teamed up and became one of the beloved tag teams the Quebec territory ever saw. They had an amazing bloody fued with Ronnie and Jimmy Garvin.
Eventually they signed with the WWF, ultimately becoming tag team champions multiple times before Raymond finally stepped away from the ring to pursue several backstage roles within WWF(where he stayed until 2001), meanwhile Jacques would go on to become the Mountie and win the Intercontinental belt defeating Bret Hart, before forming a tag team known as the Quebecers and ultimately winning more tag team gold before his career started to fizzle out.
Jacques had an unofficial retirement match in 1997 in Montreal, against Hulk Hogan at a WCW house show and the match ended with Rougeau beating Hogan cleanly in the middle of the ring.
I would say both of them deserve a spot on this list of sons having more success than their promoter fathers.
The question was who is the best son if a promoter, not better than his father or best second generation wrestler. Having said that, I don't know if Nick Bockwinkel's father was a promoter but Nick was always one of my favorites.
Dustin never became a main eventer, but as a worker you could still give Dustin and Dusty an honorable mention
I know Dusty was a booker but I'm not sure if he was ever a promoter.
@@damienthorne3012 That's fair, I just kinda lumped them together as "son of the guy in charge" I suppose.
@@damienthorne3012 Dusty started to promote Florida i believe just as they were turning into the Performance Center ..he was definitely starting to promote indy shows there because I saw an interview where he talked about bringing back FCW.
No mention of the Guerreros?
Not promoters?
@@ebransc09 bro Eddys dad ran shows out of El Paso. For over a decade
I’m a huge Randy Savage fan but Bret vs Mr.Perfect, Roddy Piper, Bulldog, Owen, Michaels, Austin beats anything Savage ever did if I’m being honest with myself.
This is no knock on Savage as he’s my number 2.
@Kwame brown and Jim cornette burner account when I think of great savage matches, only vs Steamboat and vs DDP come to mind.
I didn’t really care for the match with the Warrior - Warrior kicking out of so many elbow drops, talking to the sky then hitting a dozen shoulder tackles knocking savage to the floor over and over really killed it for me.
Also, vs flair was all wrong in my opinion. Savage took a beating 99% of the match ( as savage does in almost every match in which he’s the baby face ) even though it was built as Savage getting revenge on flair for trashing his wife. It was the wrong in-ring story told. Savage needing to pull the tights then getting his ass kicked after the match was lame. Savage should have gone in as a man possessed and beat the hell out of flair 75% of the match with a clean win.
Same goes for savage winning the mania tournament in ‘88 - he wasn’t booked strong in any of the matches. Got his ass kicked 99% of the time in every match and sqweeked out on DQs and a Hogan chair-shot. Terrible way to win.
Savage vs Santana matches were unreal performances. Savage was better than Bret
Eddie Guerrero would be on the list if you consider El Paso to be a territory (not just the shows Gory promoted with Amarillo)and the Hispanic based shows he ran in the border towns etc
“Daddy we stopped & had a picnic
Were the sandwiches good Georgie?
Garet Bischoff is clearly the GOAT
How dare you 🍻 - Aces & Eights made me hate TNA still to this day!
Roflmao. Seriously, this exists? Talk about nepotism
Technically, Eric never owned a promotion. He’s been an executive, but never an owner.
1 Vince McMahon 2 Macho Man Randy Savage 3 Bret Hart 3 Owen Hart 4 Terry Funk 5 Jeff Jarrett 6 Kerry & David Von Erich
Vince wasn't a wrestler, or wasn't a very good one. He doesn't count here
In overall drawing power, I think the Macho Man Randy Savage holds the crown. He was a top draw in his father's outlaw promotion, Memphis, WWF, and WCW, and is still known outside of wrestling to a degree very very few have managed, despite not really transitioning to Hollywood (or trying) and being dead for over a decade. Hart is close though, and is definitely the better in-ring worker, but he had both a shorter run as a top guy (though more due to injury than any fault of his own) and never really broke away from being just a wrestler. Owen Hart was victimized by bad booking and Russo, but was honestly better than Bret (on the mic at least, in ring they're both two of the best ever) and should have reached far higher than he did.
If the fact that it was his grandma that was the promoter and not father counts, then I think the Rock is on par with Savage, if not #1. He had a shorter run, but in a different era, and definitely drew more money as well as expanded out of wrestling to be a household name and an actor. No where as good in-ring, but Savage was one of the best in his own right, so that's no knock against anyone.
Also, Dusty Rhodes I think started a promotion in the early 00's, Turnbuckle or something, so he was a promoter. I don't think Dustin or Cody either one are remotely near the level of many of the names listed though; Dustin has remained a solid upper midcard guy his whole career and Cody's biggest achievements in ring is a neck tattoo, and getting his wife pregnant. I guess being the one to come up with AEW, he's eclipsed his dad as a promoter, though. The actual product is... less than thrilling to me, to be polite, but it has managed to break the million mark a few times and seems to consistently draw over 3/4 of a million viewers. So... yay, Cody?
this is the kind of educational shit i love on this channel
"No brag just fact"
Will Sonnet
Kerry was much more over than Fritz ever was
Hahhaha
@@chrischar9428 yes
Dominic and Rey mysterio obv
Wasn't Gory Guerrero a promoter too?
Bret was such a legend tho that they were talks about putting him as the face on Canadian Money, they weren't going to do that with Stu.
I'd agree that Stu is more well known than Angelo is, but Savage is one of the biggest names in All of wrestling. It's a good and pretty fun argument either way. Respect to all parties involved. Except for roadd dogg, it's a shame he has the Armstrong name.
I think the kind of lost the plot of the question a couple minutes in when they started talking about if the sons are better than their fathers
Ur also forgetting about The Rock, Rocky Johnson, and High Chief Peter Maivia. Not to mention Yokozuna and Roman Reigns when it comes to the Wild Samoans.
I'd say Terry Funk, Randy Savage and Bret. Too hard to pick one.
easy one - promotor Vince McMahon Sr. - Vince Jr ( including wrestling ) as booker and promotor
Guns of Will Sonnet. Walter Brennan, "No brag, jus' fact."
Why is Richard Nixon on the bottom left of the picture? ;)
LMFAO
Yes, Greg Gagne was not mentioned but should have. True, he was not his father's equal as a legend, but Greg could wrestle and was underrated because he was undersized. But anyone who graduated from Verne's training camp with Billy Robinson as an instructor should be respected
The only guy Ric Flair never beat, Woooooooo!
I am taking a stab at Road Dogg being Bullet Bob. Mike Rotunda or Bray Wyatt??? Or IRS or Bray?? Rotunda wasnt a promoter but Bullet Bob was.
Sadly, the answer might be Vince.
Vince is not a wrestler, he is a promoter
Bret is the greatest period.
its hard to make the argument that Brett is ahead of Race Flair Bruno Hogan on Mt. Rushmore ... Brett was very good probably even technically better than Bruno on Hogan but on longevity and drawing power Bruno and Hogan would be ahead. Brett is probably top 10 all time ... top 20 for sure but best of all time ... idk.
How do you come up with that conclusion? Wrestling is very subjective, but if you go with biggest stars ever, you would think Hogan, Flair, Andre, etc...Now if you're talking technical wrestler, guys like Dean Malenko would be better. So are you being subjective, because he was your favorite?
@@johngallagher72 Totally agree.
As in ring technician but money maker no.
@@johngallagher72 - Austin is the biggest star Pro Wrestling has ever had
Admittedly I’m a bit of a mark when it comes to the old school stuff but not even a mention, good or bad, of Vern and Greg Gagne?
I know they are not the top of the top, but what about the Malenkos? While Dean was never a mega star-he was definitely a National star in his mid card WCW and WWE runs, and Boris was a regional star where went and booked.
Salvador Lutteroth's son, can't remember his name, but he didn't run his daddy's company out of business, and is the longest standing company in pro wrestling now. CMLL is actually in the fourth generation of family owners now.
AAA is still running strong after Antonio Peña's son took over too.
But yes, with any organization, for profit business or otherwise, it's best to give leadership to the most qualified and most benevolent individual, rather than keep it in the family for its own sake.
I don't know much about Randy Orton's grandfather but I find it hard to believe that he was a bigger star than Orton. Dude would have literally had to have been a top 2/3 guy in the industry for a decade to have reached his level. How many world titles did Orton win like 14?
Bret is the best but I think Barry windham has to be on the list
Was Mulligan a promoter though?
Not even the slightest mention of Verne and Greg Gagne. And I think I glad for that omission.
Of the "fathers" the two biggest in terms of stars are Stu and Fritz.
What about Dusty Rhodes?
Ric Flair, he had the book for WCW.
@@walsh9080 that's a bit of a loophole. That's like saying Road Dogg cause he booked Smackdown
@@randylynch4330 I was debating whether he technically counted as a promoter or not tbh.
Not the f****** question
I would say the better wrestlers that were sons of promoters used their parent's company as just a stepping stone, but they got themselves to the top based on their skills, charisma, and talent. Bret Hart is a great example of this. And yes, Owen was probably a better performer than Bret because he can do everything that Bret could do, but Bret couldn't do everything that Owen could do.
Owen was great, but he could never make you believe like Bret did.
@@natebaxter9551 I don't know, I really believed he hated Bret.
Um hello? What about Terry “The Frog” Tomko, son of Sgt Al Tomko?!
Rick Davis was the Canadian George Gulas.
He actually had to contemplate an answer for this lol
Tully Blanchard.......
They left out greg gagne and matt borne- blackjack mulligan and ric flair briefly had knoxville but that prob doesnt count- I'm not too familiar with rhe fuller family but they probably count- plus erik watts and garret bischoff
Answer is always Terry Funk....lol
Bret Hart is possibly the greatest Wrestler EVER! I've been watching a lot of his matches lately, the guy was incredible.
How would you define greatest wrestler ever?
@@dabadguy2826 In ring ability
Been watching since the early eighties...Bret is definitely my fave of all time.
How did neither of them mention the Gagnes? I realize the majority of Jim's experience was in the south but the AWA was pretty important for a long time.
They were talking about the best, not the worst.
@@joefly6483 at the end maybe but still pretty fucking huge for many years.
@@joefly6483 Way to out yourself as ignorant.
@@maxxdahl6062 "Best wrestler that is the son of a promoter"
Greg Gagne does not belong on that list, not by a long shot.
@@joefly6483 Hell I might put him up there in the running as it goes for tag team wrestlers. He's really underrated in that role. And most sons of promoters usually go for being singles stars for the most part.
This was a great question. Great debate.
Great question s*** answers
They missed the point of the question.
Bret is the best technical wrestler ever...and I'm not just saying that because I'm Canadian.
@Kwame brown and Jim cornette burner account It is the law indeed! Like that scene in 300 with the newborns being inspected upon birth.
@Kwame brown and Jim cornette burner account So Kenny Omega, Elix Skipper, and Lance Storm were great? What alternative universe were they great in?
Bret Hart is always "very high" it's probably why he is always so chill.
Miss The Hitman Wrestling gosh Wrestling was great then
How are the Ortons not blackballed from wrestling? After Barry O exposed the ring boy stuff and his Dad did that Plan B thing, right?
The ring boy scandal was too public and would have got Vince too much main stream heat if he blackballed Barry O or Bob Jr. And the plan b thing, wasn't really known about until the last few years when it surfaced on UA-cam.
@@johnc4372 sure.....but why not mess with young Randy's career? Why would Vince ever want to see an Orton ever again?
I'm sure there's a story there
Before watching, I have to say Greg Gagne because Greg Gagne says so.
I think they missed the point of the question.
These questions are getting really specific 😂
Vince McMahon: “My son and I are the greatest father/son promoter/wrestler combination ever. I bought every major competitor, and my son HHH was at the top of the industry for 20 years. What? No, HHH is my son and heir. Shane? Shane who? No idea who that is.”
Left field choice…Art Barr?
Wasn't Owen the promoter and Barr the booker/ ref ? ...we didn't get any Portland in the Northeast so my knowledge is mostly through the Apter mags.
@@theghostoflarrysteve3441 AFAIK Owen owned the company but Barr did a lot of spot show promotion and ran some of the secondary towns. He also ended up being the promoter when Owen sold up and retired, but by that point the Portland territory was dead and buried so that bit probably shouldn't count.
Speaking of left field choices, nobody wants to talk about him for obvious reasons but Grizzly Smith was a promoter in Louisiana so Jake ought to be in the consideration.